remiremedy [blu.knight]Join Date: 2003-11-18Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
<!--quoteo(post=1676765:date=Apr 24 2008, 05:00 PM:name=Nil_IQ)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Nil_IQ @ Apr 24 2008, 05:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1676765"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Uh oh. I feel an addiction coming on.
I too am using a graphics pack which makes things a whole lot more bearable.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I know how you feel. The graphics pack makes it so I can easily identify by sight who each dwarf is. On top of that things actually make sense for the most part... It's almost like I'm playing a real game and not just some guys rather elaborate hobby. (Which it actually is)
But yeah. I feel like this may be an addiction that I will face throughout this summer.
On that topic, is there any way to speed up time or should I just leave it on my second screen in the non-fullscreen mode so that time keeps moving forward?
MonkfishSonic-boom-inducing buttcheeks of terrifying speed!Join Date: 2003-06-03Member: 16972Members
<!--quoteo(post=1676766:date=Apr 24 2008, 09:13 PM:name=Psyke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Psyke @ Apr 24 2008, 09:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1676766"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I know how you feel. The graphics pack makes it so I can easily identify by sight who each dwarf is. On top of that things actually make sense for the most part... It's almost like I'm playing a real game and not just some guys rather elaborate hobby. (Which it actually is)
But yeah. I feel like this may be an addiction that I will face throughout this summer.
On that topic, is there any way to speed up time or should I just leave it on my second screen in the non-fullscreen mode so that time keeps moving forward?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah you can do that with a tileset, it's called colour coded dwarfs.
Go to \data\init\init.txt and change [FPS:NO] to [FPS:YES]. This has nothing to do with the graphical refresh rate, but rather indicates how fast the game is running. The next setting you'll want to look at is [FPS_CAP:100] (might have a different value if you have already modified it), which, as you have probably guessed, sets the maximum FPS (again in terms of game speed, not graphics). If you find, while playing, that your FPS are often at the cap, you may benefit from increasing the FPS cap. On the other hand, if you're usually below the cap, increasing it won't change anything.
There's no other way to "accelerate time" because the limiting factor is how fast your CPU can make the required calculations. That being said, if your CPU is the bottleneck (rather than FPS_CAP being it), Dwarf Fortress Wiki has a handy <a href="http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Maximizing_framerate" target="_blank">guide</a> on how you can reduce processor load to speed up the game.
(Note: Avoid [PRIORITY:REALTIME] at all costs if you don't have a multicore processor.)
remiremedy [blu.knight]Join Date: 2003-11-18Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
I have made the realtime mistake once before. In fact, I made this mistake after I already knew what it did. I had just assumed that the OS would still switch to other tasks SOMETIMES to check for input and stuff. Meh, I guess if I had really been thinking I would have known that wouldn't be the case.
So something has happened. I played for three hours today. This is just odd. It is rather addicting.
It turns out though that I ran out of seeds that can be planted in the spring, and my ranger died at some point in the winter or early spring. Don't really know why, but he did.
So I told a farmer to go hunting, and he did. He even managed to kill a warthog. For some reason no one pulled the body back. Is there something I'm missing here?
Anyways, my entire population is starving and thirsty. How do I make clean water if all I have around me is murky pools?
So yeah. I'm having a thirst and hunger epidemic right now. Any suggestions as to how I can last?
I've really got to wait to play this game until AFTER finals....
remiremedy [blu.knight]Join Date: 2003-11-18Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
edited April 2008
<!--quoteo(post=1676770:date=Apr 24 2008, 05:31 PM:name=Sonic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sonic @ Apr 24 2008, 05:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1676770"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah you can do that with a tileset, it's called colour coded dwarfs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I prefer what's called full 8bit dwarfs. <img src="http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/files/DF/DFG3.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> <a href="http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/df.htm" target="_blank">http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/df.htm</a>
Nil, what graphics pack are you using? How do you like it? What complaints do you have?
It's harder to distinguish elves apart now that I've got so many "migrants", but my lovely leader is still pink.
It actually looks a bit better than that, I think he's changed it some since that picture.
I'm gonna go ahead and say what we're all thinking: People who play dwarf fortress with graphics packs are halo-playing fratboy ######s. Anyways...
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The way i've heard you guys talk about immigrants I would have thought they were a deadly plague or something;<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wait till you create some actual wealth. Once the mountainhomes hear of your streets paved with gold and one keg per child program they'll come in endless droves to drink all your booze and party and clutter up the halls with their pets. They won't realize you don't actually have golden streets until its too late.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->my ranger died at some point in the winter or early spring. Don't really know why, but he did.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> When hunters run out of bolts they kill their food the old fashioned way: by beating it to death with their crossbow. Sometimes the prey fights back. This is almost certainly what happened.
remiremedy [blu.knight]Join Date: 2003-11-18Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
edited April 2008
<!--quoteo(post=1676791:date=Apr 24 2008, 10:22 PM:name=SkulkBait)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SkulkBait @ Apr 24 2008, 10:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1676791"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm gonna go ahead and say what we're all thinking: People who play dwarf fortress with graphics packs are halo-playing fratboy ######s.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'd be really surprised if that is truly what everyone is thinking.
People who actually care about graphics would not even touch dwarf fortress. Even with a graphics pack.
The people who use graphic packs are people who found the learning curve to just be too steep when they couldn't figure out what anything was.
The guy who makes DF even admits the interface is terrible and that he hasn't gotten around to working on it (more accurately, he doesn't want to put time into it until the game is more "complete"). A terrible interface paired with graphics that really make no logical sense makes for a ridiculously high learning curve. I've decreased the learning curve a bit by making most of the graphics sensible (a graphics pack doesn't make this look like halo or even zelda for GBA. There are still random things that I need to hit k to figure out what they are).
While I don't like halo much and really don't like the hyper-realistic trend in the game industry, you were in fact lucky about the fratboy part. I am in a fraternity, though I don't consider that to really be a crucial aspect of my character. Merely one of the paths I took in college. (Though I actually took that path and then went to the sidewalk instead of being in the bus with everyone else because I found that having to deal with that many people didn't fit well with my daily life. I like having the constant friends there, but I need my space.)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When hunters run out of bolts they kill their food the old fashioned way: by beating it to death with their crossbow. Sometimes the prey fights back. This is almost certainly what happened.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Since I didn't have any bolts, I'm sure that's really the reason but still. Why wouldn't he be able to kill warthogs with his bare hands? He was a dwarf!
I really have two reasons I'm playing DF. 1. Because I keep hearing about it. 2. Because I'm going to college for game design and feel that playing games, even the ones with crappy interfaces, is an important research technique.
My opinions on DF are not fully formed as I haven't been playing it long enough, though I have listened to interviews from the guy and have a pretty solid opinion on him.
Right now he is living off of the donations this project gets. He actually quit his job to work on DF. His motivation to this project is inspiring, but he is making it for the wrong reason. He is making it for himself, and it is just happening to turn out to be a good game. He doesn't have any real plans to make it marketable and the way he talks about it indicated to me that this is just his hobby. A hobby that he is immensely involved in to the point that he doesn't do anything else, but a hobby none the less.
Because this game is so novel in what it is achieving it probably could be very marketable, but he doesn't seem to have any plans towards such a goal. He's happy just living off donations and working on this. Once again I say- it's great for him. It's just not the mindset required to be a successful game designer.
Wow, longest reply to a joke ever. If you actually took offense to it then I'm sorry, I guess. Personally, I like the ascii-art. It gives the game character. I honestly don't think the game would be quite as enjoyable if I weren't forced to use my imagination so much. Granted, I'm a Nethack player too, so I've already been broken in on the whole reading the matrix thing.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Since I didn't have any bolts, I'm sure that's really the reason but still. Why wouldn't he be able to kill warthogs with his bare hands? He was a dwarf!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, but hes a dwarf with no bolts up against a warthog fighting for his life. Warthogs can get a few lucky hits in just like anybody else.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Right now he is living off of the donations this project gets. He actually quit his job to work on DF. His motivation to this project is inspiring, but he is making it for the wrong reason. He is making it for himself, and it is just happening to turn out to be a good game. He doesn't have any real plans to make it marketable and the way he talks about it indicated to me that this is just his hobby. A hobby that he is immensely involved in to the point that he doesn't do anything else, but a hobby none the less.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think thats the way games should be done. As art, for the love of the medium itself, not for money. The Same Gameplay Again XIII is what you get when your goal is to make money, and I'm sick of that ######. Theres a reason you rarely see this kind of creativity in a big name company. This guy has a real talent for creating emergent environments, just read his <a href="http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3549/interview_the_making_of_dwarf_.php" target="_blank">gamasutra interview</a> to get an idea of how much effort he put into creating the world generator. The game doesn't have a scripted story with flashy cutscenes that run for several minutes, the stories naturally emerge from the gameplay itself. And its not even finished.
<!--quoteo(post=1676791:date=Apr 24 2008, 10:22 PM:name=SkulkBait)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SkulkBait @ Apr 24 2008, 10:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1676791"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wait till you create some actual wealth. Once the mountainhomes hear of your streets paved with gold and one keg per child program they'll come in endless droves to drink all your booze and party and clutter up the halls with their pets.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is my solemn promise to you that so long as I am mayor, no child will be left sober!
Incidentally, I strongly encourage you all to donate to Tarn if you've enjoyed playing DF. I did, and it made me feel all fuzzy inside.
I've got a bronze colossus stomping around outside my fort at the moment. He took out all the human swordsmen from the caravan that visited recently, sustaining only mild injuries to its upper body. Thankfully it seems content chasing groundhogs around the map. The problem arises when one of my dwarves heads out to pick up the corpse. I've lost two so far.
I'm also losing dwarves to starvation. I've got plenty of food so I must presume they can't afford food. Damn capitalism.
<!--quoteo(post=1676804:date=Apr 25 2008, 09:17 AM:name=Scythe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Scythe @ Apr 25 2008, 09:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1676804"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Incidentally, I strongly encourage you all to donate to Tarn if you've enjoyed playing DF. I did, and it made me feel all fuzzy inside.
I've got a bronze colossus stomping around outside my fort at the moment. He took out all the human swordsmen from the caravan that visited recently, sustaining only mild injuries to its upper body. Thankfully it seems content chasing groundhogs around the map. The problem arises when one of my dwarves heads out to pick up the corpse. I've lost two so far.
I'm also losing dwarves to starvation. I've got plenty of food so I must presume they can't afford food. Damn capitalism.
--Scythe--<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm pretty sure dwarves wont starve if they can't afford food. They'll just eat what's cheapest, and then they'll be in debt. If you have only *Quarry bush leaves roast [39]*, they'll eat those and be in debt for the rest of their lives <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
You should check if all your food is accessible, and that you haven't (accidentally) forbidden them all, or something.
Nil, what graphics pack are you using? How do you like it? What complaints do you have?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That one. My only complaint is that because the letter "O" seems to be used for a certain type of wall, any text which is supposed to have a capital O in it instead has a wall <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
I like that grass and plants actually look like grass and plants now rather than an indistinguisable mass of .,'.,';,.' which is supposed to represent a bush.
I don't look down on people who use alternate tilesets.
I like the default tileset. I got used to it before there WERE any other tilesets, and now I'm happy with it the way it is. I'm never going to use alternate tilesets unless they actually make the game pretty (but I'd welcome that). But anything that decreases the learning curve without dumbing the game down is more than welcome, as that'll bring more players to the game. I don't care that they can't read the Matrix in raw form.
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1676795:date=Apr 24 2008, 11:23 PM:name=SkulkBait)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SkulkBait @ Apr 24 2008, 11:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1676795"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think thats the way games should be done. As art, for the love of the medium itself, not for money. The Same Gameplay Again XIII is what you get when your goal is to make money, and I'm sick of that ######. Theres a reason you rarely see this kind of creativity in a big name company. This guy has a real talent for creating emergent environments, just read his <a href="http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3549/interview_the_making_of_dwarf_.php" target="_blank">gamasutra interview</a> to get an idea of how much effort he put into creating the world generator. The game doesn't have a scripted story with flashy cutscenes that run for several minutes, the stories naturally emerge from the gameplay itself. And its not even finished.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> QFT. It's love of the game man. You can't teach that. <!--quoteo(post=1676814:date=Apr 25 2008, 07:30 AM:name=Nil_IQ)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Nil_IQ @ Apr 25 2008, 07:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1676814"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That one. My only complaint is that because the letter "O" seems to be used for a certain type of wall, any text which is supposed to have a capital O in it instead has a wall <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
I like that grass and plants actually look like grass and plants now rather than an indistinguisable mass of .,'.,';,.' which is supposed to represent a bush.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah I'm using the same tileset and all of my dorfs are named Reg Veld[Tree]erkan, Itmus Arb[candlestick]maruth, [door]ran Relstrick. I think of it as a feature.
It's worth noting that I'm running a fairly old version of DF, df_23_130_23a, I think. My food is definitely accessible, and not forbidden. I've got no idea what's going on.
<!--quoteo(post=1676827:date=Apr 25 2008, 10:35 AM:name=Scythe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Scythe @ Apr 25 2008, 10:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1676827"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's worth noting that I'm running a fairly old version of DF, df_23_130_23a, I think. My food is definitely accessible, and not forbidden. I've got no idea what's going on.
--Scythe--<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ah. Dwarves not eating when the economy activated was known bug in that version. They're gonna starve. Sorry.
You could try just giving all your dwarves some meaningless task to do to earn money. Dig out a large area and build a ton of mason shops, turn masonry on on everyone and make blocks or stone crafts. Something like that. I can't speculate as to the optimum strategy here because I have no idea what work is worth what and the wiki doesn't seem to have any info.
remiremedy [blu.knight]Join Date: 2003-11-18Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
edited April 2008
<!--quoteo(post=1676795:date=Apr 24 2008, 11:23 PM:name=SkulkBait)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SkulkBait @ Apr 24 2008, 11:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1676795"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wow, longest reply to a joke ever. If you actually took offense to it then I'm sorry, I guess. Personally, I like the ascii-art. It gives the game character. I honestly don't think the game would be quite as enjoyable if I weren't forced to use my imagination so much. Granted, I'm a Nethack player too, so I've already been broken in on the whole reading the matrix thing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I wasn't offended by it, but put off by the elitism attitude in the joke, and was feeling particularly talkative. It may have been a joke to say halo playing whatever, but do you really think a graphics set makes the quality of the game worse? That's the point I felt like ranting about. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think thats the way games should be done. As art, for the love of the medium itself, not for money. The Same Gameplay Again XIII is what you get when your goal is to make money, and I'm sick of that ######. Theres a reason you rarely see this kind of creativity in a big name company. This guy has a real talent for creating emergent environments, just read his <a href="http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3549/interview_the_making_of_dwarf_.php" target="_blank">gamasutra interview</a> to get an idea of how much effort he put into creating the world generator. The game doesn't have a scripted story with flashy cutscenes that run for several minutes, the stories naturally emerge from the gameplay itself. And its not even finished.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Even artists need to consider the commercial value while they are making art. It's a fact of life. Just because someone is trying to make money does not mean it is not being done as art or for the love of it. I love designing video games and I love making them, but I would like to be successful in the future. When I'm designing games I try to consider what other people will like, not just myself, and try to consider how to ensure the game is playable and can reach a good sized audience. I am not saying that everyone needs to go make Counter-Strike, just that to be a successful game designer you need to consider your audience. I was actually talking to a professor today. He was saying that a story involves conflict, resolution, etc. Story elements. DF generates the setting for a story, but no story is ever created except by your own imagination. It's not like reading a book where you actually have a story to get involved in (which is why people read books and watch movies). I'm actually arguing the opposite side I did this morning because I'd like to hear some more arguments as to why DF could be considered a generated story. I can write a story about the events that happen in the game, but that's exactly the difference between games with story and games with setting. The setting is a place and has events that can be turned into a story, but DF has no narrator to put these events into a coherent story with climax resolution etc...
Yup. I'm longwinded. So sue me. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> We're on topics that I am rather passionate about. I may want to make money with video games, but I didn't go to college for it just to get money. It's because it's something I have passion for, I appreciate as an art, and I truly enjoy.
remiremedy [blu.knight]Join Date: 2003-11-18Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
edited April 2008
<!--quoteo(post=1676778:date=Apr 24 2008, 08:19 PM:name=Psyke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Psyke @ Apr 24 2008, 08:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1676778"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><img src="http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/files/DF/DFG3.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> To the others that are using this pack, you can turn it into a lite version that doesn't mess with text, though this also means the grass gets ugly and stuff.
If you look through the folders there is a psd file which you can use tochange the tileset to the lite version (you will need to use the wiki as well probably)
edit: I'm not sure one of my previous questions was answered. How do I make it so people carry the warthog corpses back to my fortress?
<!--quoteo(post=1676837:date=Apr 25 2008, 07:29 PM:name=Psyke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Psyke @ Apr 25 2008, 07:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1676837"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To the others that are using this pack, you can turn it into a lite version that doesn't mess with text, though this also means the grass gets ugly and stuff.
If you look through the folders there is a psd file which you can use tochange the tileset to the lite version (you will need to use the wiki as well probably)
edit: I'm not sure one of my previous questions was answered. How do I make it so people carry the warthog corpses back to my fortress?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Standing order: o Refuse order: r gather refuse from outside: dont know which key
remiremedy [blu.knight]Join Date: 2003-11-18Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
edited April 2008
<!--quoteo(post=1676795:date=Apr 24 2008, 11:23 PM:name=SkulkBait)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SkulkBait @ Apr 24 2008, 11:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1676795"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This guy has a real talent for creating emergent environments, just read his <a href="http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3549/interview_the_making_of_dwarf_.php" target="_blank">gamasutra interview</a> to get an idea of how much effort he put into creating the world generator.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Thanks for the link. I was actually looking for more information on how the systems in here actually work, so that made good reading. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Yay, I lost my first game of Dwarf Fortress! Question from this game... Why did I run out of plump helmet seeds, and why when I had them again did my farmers not plant? (How do I make a farming system that is sustainable... if it's in sand it doesn't need water, right?)
My new society will run on kittens, I believe. Kittens and dwarven wine.
<!--quoteo(post=1676840:date=Apr 25 2008, 08:33 PM:name=Psyke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Psyke @ Apr 25 2008, 08:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1676840"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thanks for the link. I was actually looking for more information on how the systems in here actually work, so that made good reading. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> Yay, I lost my first game of Dwarf Fortress! Question from this game... Why did I run out of plump helmet seeds, and why when I had them again did my farmers not plant? (How do I make a farming system that is sustainable... if it's in sand it doesn't need water, right?) My new society will run on kittens, I believe. Kittens and dwarven wine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When you cook plump helmets, you loose the seed! But when you brew them you keep the seed. Eating them raw will also preserve the seed. So just forbid cooking of plump helmets.
z select kitchen make lump helemts cook red
Farm plots can be made over muddy or soil tiles. Muddy tiles are tiles, that had/have water on them. After a while you might need to rewater your plots. (You will see a message like: There are no available seeds for this plot. This is pretty irritating and just means: GIMME SOME WATER!)
You don't need to irrigate sand or clay though. Remember, you must re-select what you want to plant in the plot for every season the first time around.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Even artists need to consider the commercial value while they are making art.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'd say thats pretty much the antithesis of what art is all about. Thats why we have the term "sellout".
remiremedy [blu.knight]Join Date: 2003-11-18Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
edited April 2008
<!--quoteo(post=1676844:date=Apr 25 2008, 05:02 PM:name=SkulkBait)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SkulkBait @ Apr 25 2008, 05:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1676844"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You don't need to irrigate sand or clay though. Remember, you must re-select what you want to plant in the plot for every season the first time around. I'd say thats pretty much the antithesis of what art is all about. Thats why we have the term "sellout".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Art is what you create. It is about expressing yourself. Modifying your design or concept so that a larger number of people can appreciate and understand your message and what you intend for people to get out of it does not remove its artistic element. There is a difference here between making art for yourself and making art for others, and it isn’t just due to money. They are different methods of creating and neither is wrong. The issue I have is that if you are creating art for yourself it requires a lot more luck to actually be successful. With games especially, if you do consider how other people will view them and what issues they will have you will be able to put solutions in place for these issues to ensure that the experience is very enjoyable for anyone playing. To be a successful game designer as I see it, you need to be able to make popular games time and time again. When you are considering others and you know the market creating a successful game requires less luck. This point I believe will be a big issue to you, and to that I present a question. Is it not art if you are given an assignment for an art class such as “fantasy painting� If the market is very open to one type of game, the fact that an idea draws inspiration from this does not make it any less of art. As with the art assignment, it is all about how you do it and the experience you create.
There are things that when designing a game I would not change just because people want me to. One example of this is excessive gore. I just don’t see the need for it and putting it in would go against my principles. On the other hand, I would change some things such as the controls if I realized other people would have difficulty with it. I think this is the main thing. As long as you aren’t going against your principles, it is not selling out and it is still art*. To change a game to make it reach a larger audience, or to change a game to make it more marketable does not make it less of art unless it is going against the artist’s beliefs and against the creative vision they have for the game.
*In the case of being a “selloutâ€, one must also consider the principles they have portrayed to those loyal them.
If you just started playing df and you are getting a littel bit frustrated just read this small guide on survival. It does not tell you which button to click when, instead it explains the basic concepts of survival and lays down an efficient strategy.
Dwarf Fortress, Basic Concepts: Dwarf Fortress has one main goal: Survival! Although there are alot of different achievements, like killing a dragon or becoming montainhome, to achieve those you need to survive which means your dwarves need to survive. To survive a dwarf needs 3 things: Something to drink, something to eat and protection from hostile lifeforms as well as the dangers of living among other dwarves.
Lets talk about the first: Something to drink. This can be either water or booze. Because alot of dwarves get lazy when they don't get to drink booze you want to establish a solid booze supply for your dwarves. Booze can be either bought from traders or you can brew certain plants. To get those plants you can either gather them, which can be dangerous or you can safely grow them on your own farm.
Lets talk about the second: Something to eat. Dwarves can eat certain things raw, but prefer their food to be cooked before consumption. Among the things that can be eaten raw are plump helmets, meat and turtles. Food production can involve alot of steps. The following ways allow you to obtain food: Hunt animal and then butcher at the butchery. Fish turtles and eat the raw. Fish and prepare fish at the fishery. Gather directly edible plants. Gather cookable plants. Grow directly edible plants. Grow cookable plants. Grow plants, mill them and the use that product to cook. Grow plants, process them and then cook that product.
These are alot of options, so the first here go the first tips: When you embark to a site, don't take meat with you. Instead take turtles with you. This is because they are also ediable raw and eating raw turtles will leave behind a shell, which will later be put to good use. From the available seeds, just take plump helmets seeds with you. They can be grown the whole year, can be ate raw, cooked and brewn into booze. This makes them some kind of universal super plant. In order to secure an efficient food an booze supply take the following steps: Embark with 25 plump helmet spawns, 50 turtles and 200 of any kind of booze. 1 Dwarf is a proficient cook/grower and 1 who is a proficient brewer/grower. When at the site build a 5x5 farm plot and let them grow plump helmets the whole year. It is also important to note, that cooking a plump helmet will destroy its seed, while eating it raw and brewing it will preserve the seed. In the stock screen (z) you will see a kitchen sub-menu. There you should forbid cooking of plump helmets, to prevent the seed from getting destroyed. Because booze can also be cooked, all you need to do is cook some of that booze from time to time and keep the still running 24/7. With these tips, it should be easy to safe your dwarves from starvation/dying of thirst.
You probably need to try abit, to work out a good rhythm for yourself and till you get the numbers right.
Ok, so we covered 2 basic dwarven needs. Now for need number 3. Protection. Dwarves needs to be protected from the following: Wildlife, Invading races and other dwarves going berserk. Lets start with the third one. To prevent your dwarves from going hurting each other you need to keep them happy. This is a rather easy concept: Getting hurt and family members dieing=bad, eating well prepared food, having an own bed = good. There are of course more, but these matter to us the most at the moment. Because we already have a dedicated cook/brewer our dwarves should be eating/drinking only primo grub. This will keep them happy for most of the time and certainly at the start. But then there is also a way how a dwarf can go berserk, without anything going wrong. Sometimes dwarves are taken by a mood, or withdraw from society or become possessed. When in these states they will try to create an artefact. A powerful item. To create these artefact they will first claim a workshop, so you should make sure that there is always at least one of each workshop type in our fort. After they claim the workshop they will demand certain goods that they then create the artefact from. These good can be: Stone, wood, leather, bones, cut gems, raw gems, cloths and shells! Yep, the reason why you are supposed to bring turtles instead of meat is shells. They are the hardest material to come by later (no kidding) and when a dwarf hits a mood and you don't have shells it is usally too late to organize some and the dwarf might go berserk. If you are not able to fulfil the dwarves need for certain resources he will go mad or berserk and might start hurting other dwarves and destroying parts of your fort. To prevent this you should always be able to lock a dwarf in the workshop. To make it short: Keep dwarves happy by making good food (best way, cause dwarves eat regularly) and always bring turtels, so that you have enough shells to please artefact makers. Protect your dwarves from wildlife: Depending on your environments you can have everything, ranging from marmots to zombie elephants or even worse: carps. Due to a bug in the current version dwarves are extremely deadly and thus you should never fish, unless you ran out of shells. The most effective way to protect your dwarves from dangerous wildlife is to start going underground and make sure your dwarves don't return to the surface unless necessary. So start digging that fort, don't provoke wildlife by hunting them and most importantly make sure that the entrance to your fort entrance is located behind a long corridor, filled with traps. They are currently the most effective way to dispose of nearly any foes. Protect your dwarves from invasions: Goblins will naturally try to invade your fort, these invasion are triggered by the amount of wealth you have generated. S you might want to start producing masterwork gold furniture AFTER you have secured your fort. As for securing your fort, the same that I already said on how to combat wildlife has been said. Traps, traps, traps. In fact dealing with invasion is usually easier, cause you actually have time to build traps, whereas zombie elephants might decide to start lynching you right away. it should also be noted, that humans and elves might decide to attack you, if their caravans don't make it home safely or you rob them.
Ok, with this knowledge you should be able to fend of starvation, dying from thirst and hostile lifeforms. So lets look some more into the embark screen.
There are 3 resource you can build stuff from in dwarf fortress. Wood, stone and metal. If you start off without any of these 3 and no way to obtain them, you are doomed! Lets talk about wood. Wood has 3 main uses: Creating charcoal which is needed for steel and general smiting if you don't have access to magma, It plays in important role in the creation of clear and crystal glass. It is the ONLY material that beds can be made from. Because sleeping on the ground will make your dwarves unhappy and might lead to them hurting other dwarves. Not having beds is not biggy at first, but after several years of sleeping on the ground and not having an own room when the economy kicks in it will make your dwarves very unhappy. So you need a way to produce about 200 beds. However, the only axe available on the embark screen costs a whopping 300 points and you do not need wood straight away. So you can trade the axe for 1 unit of charcoal and one copper bar. That's only 20 points spend and you are able to make a copper axe, the second you have erected a forge. If you bring an anvil, this is a safe choice. If you do not bring an anvil you wont be able to gather any wood until a caravan trades you an anvil. Stone. This should be your main building material. Workshops, tables, doors, grates. Almost anything can be build from stone. It is obtained by digging into the ground/mountain with picks. No picks means way to dig and thus no stone. So make sure that you ALWAYS bring at least one pick. At only 20 points for the copper pick it is exactly as costly, as making one yourself. Metal. Metal is smelted from ores and then processed at the forge. To get ore you need picks and to process the metal you need an anvil. Meta is not important at first, but when you need weapons, armour or high quality furniture to please nobles you just need it. Anvils can be however bought from caravans. So you might consider not taking one with you. If you take one with you you can, as already pointed out make your own axe, thus reducing the anvils costs to 720 points.
Not for the actual embarking. You have 7 dwarves and 2060 points to spend. If you put a maximum of points into skills, you have 1570 points left for items. So if you take a normal axe AND an anvil that's only 270 left to spend! Take the anvil and make the axe yourself, that's 570 left. If you take the axe, but leave the anvil, that's 1270 point left. As you can see, the anvil/axe choice is a rather important one. Before I continue with items, I will tell you a solid starting build. Every of these dwarves have put each 5 points into their mentioned skills. 1 Miner/Carpenter 1 Miner/Mason 1 Woodcutter/Building Designer 1 Stone Crafter/Appraiser 1 Grower/Cook 1 Grower/Brewer 1 Mechanic/Engraver
AS you can seem 2 dwarves are busy with food/booze production another 2 dig the fort and produce basic furniture 1 will create traps for security and irrigation systems, as well as smoothing all the walls. 1 will cut wood and design pumps needed for irrigation and wells etc. and 1 dwarf creates goods for the caravan and trades them.
Now for the which items to take: You definitely want: 2 copper picks for the 2 miners: 20 points 1 rope: 20 points (needed for a well) 25 plump helmet spawns: 25 points at least 50 turtles: 2 points each at least 150 booze: 2 points each
lets add those necessities up: 485 points! Seems like taking the anvil AND the axe is out of the question. Though smiting the axe yourself will still work. if you have excess points I suggest spending them on the following: Barells or wood, if you do not have much wood in your selected area. Bauxite if you need magma proof mechanisms. Bags, if you have sand in your area and intend to work with glass. More booze, more food. 1 Iron bar, if you want to tap magma early an need something to keep fire imps away. Or pets. 2 dogs cost 32 points and will produce lots of offspring, which is a good source for meat. It should be noted, that you cannot always bring certain goods on the embark screen.
Ok, I hope this will help you to survive the first years, so that your fort may be destroyed by something much more interesting than starvation.
I find that 200 alcohol is going overboard. Assuming that you have no trouble getting the farming going, 50 alcohol will easily keep you going long enough to get a still going. Instead, invest some of those points into getting a few other types of starting seeds so you don't have to worry about acquiring them later when you need them. Pig tails can be spun into thread, then woven into cloth, then tailored into clothing. Good to have when your dwarves start complaining about ragged clothing.
However, maybe the inexperienced player should concentrate more on the bare necessities, to leave margin for error. It's up to how confident you feel that everything will go right from the beginning.
MonkfishSonic-boom-inducing buttcheeks of terrifying speed!Join Date: 2003-06-03Member: 16972Members
Wow that starting setup is horrible, you don't really need to take an anvil cause a caravan will bring one to you, and you should have some meager crafts up to trade them by that time and if not, just trade lavish meals. They're worth ###### loads. Wells? why do you even need a well if you're taking that much booze along. It just seems like an extra unnecessary step in starting your fort up.
<!--quoteo(post=1676895:date=Apr 27 2008, 12:17 AM:name=Sonic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sonic @ Apr 27 2008, 12:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1676895"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wow that starting setup is horrible, you don't really need to take an anvil cause a caravan will bring one to you, and you should have some meager crafts up to trade them by that time and if not, just trade lavish meals. They're worth ###### loads. Wells? why do you even need a well if you're taking that much booze along. It just seems like an extra unnecessary step in starting your fort up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Huh, I actually explained the 4 basic choices:
Anvil + Axe Anvil + Self made Axe No Anvil + Axe No Anvil + Self made Axe
Sure, bringing no anvil is normally no problem, but I had games where the caravans just didn't bring any anvils, though I requested them through the trade agreement.
And again the well is an option. If you have a brook just ignoring booze and going for the well can work. And wounded dwarves only drink water, so the 20 poits invested into a rope are usually good spent. If you dont build the well that early you can also use it to chain a dog.
As you might have noted: I wrote it mainly as some sort of heads up to those relatively new to df, who are having trouble keeping their dwarves alive. Hence the heavy focus on plump helmets, although I personally prefer cave wheat/sweet pods for booze and quarry bushes for food.
Heck, I even played a game where I started with nothing (no skills/no items) and survived. (Ok, granted the trick is to build the trade depot with the wood from the wagon and hope that the local wildlife is able to kill the caravan and that you can pickup a pick from the remains, but its still the hardest starting build imaginable) It's actually all about timing. Because you can reuse the 3 logs, gather some plants, build a kitchen, farmers workshop and fishery and then dismantle those and build the depot right in time.
Edit: I would also like to know, what you recommend as an easy survival build to new players. Weapons?
I personally like bringing an anvil. I find that I can get an anvil, fully skilled dwarves and various other necessities, so why trade in the anvil when I risk not getting one for quite a while? I remember someone complaining that caravans just refused to bring anvils. I mean, what to bring instead of an anvil? Food? Booze? All that can easily be produced on site. Hordes of dogs to train into war dogs, perhaps.
But to each their own. The only "wrong" starting builds are the ones that make early survival difficult. All your produced wealth and all your immigrants will eventually far outweigh your starting goods/dwarves, so all that matters is that you have what you need to get a fortress going.
Comments
I too am using a graphics pack which makes things a whole lot more bearable.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know how you feel. The graphics pack makes it so I can easily identify by sight who each dwarf is. On top of that things actually make sense for the most part... It's almost like I'm playing a real game and not just some guys rather elaborate hobby. (Which it actually is)
But yeah. I feel like this may be an addiction that I will face throughout this summer.
On that topic, is there any way to speed up time or should I just leave it on my second screen in the non-fullscreen mode so that time keeps moving forward?
But yeah. I feel like this may be an addiction that I will face throughout this summer.
On that topic, is there any way to speed up time or should I just leave it on my second screen in the non-fullscreen mode so that time keeps moving forward?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah you can do that with a tileset, it's called colour coded dwarfs.
Go to \data\init\init.txt and change [FPS:NO] to [FPS:YES]. This has nothing to do with the graphical refresh rate, but rather indicates how fast the game is running. The next setting you'll want to look at is [FPS_CAP:100] (might have a different value if you have already modified it), which, as you have probably guessed, sets the maximum FPS (again in terms of game speed, not graphics). If you find, while playing, that your FPS are often at the cap, you may benefit from increasing the FPS cap. On the other hand, if you're usually below the cap, increasing it won't change anything.
There's no other way to "accelerate time" because the limiting factor is how fast your CPU can make the required calculations. That being said, if your CPU is the bottleneck (rather than FPS_CAP being it), Dwarf Fortress Wiki has a handy <a href="http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Maximizing_framerate" target="_blank">guide</a> on how you can reduce processor load to speed up the game.
(Note: Avoid [PRIORITY:REALTIME] at all costs if you don't have a multicore processor.)
So something has happened. I played for three hours today. This is just odd. It is rather addicting.
It turns out though that I ran out of seeds that can be planted in the spring, and my ranger died at some point in the winter or early spring. Don't really know why, but he did.
So I told a farmer to go hunting, and he did. He even managed to kill a warthog. For some reason no one pulled the body back. Is there something I'm missing here?
Anyways, my entire population is starving and thirsty. How do I make clean water if all I have around me is murky pools?
So yeah. I'm having a thirst and hunger epidemic right now. Any suggestions as to how I can last?
I've really got to wait to play this game until AFTER finals....
I prefer what's called full 8bit dwarfs.
<img src="http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/files/DF/DFG3.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<a href="http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/df.htm" target="_blank">http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/df.htm</a>
Nil, what graphics pack are you using? How do you like it? What complaints do you have?
It's harder to distinguish elves apart now that I've got so many "migrants", but my lovely leader is still pink.
It actually looks a bit better than that, I think he's changed it some since that picture.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The way i've heard you guys talk about immigrants I would have thought they were a deadly plague or something;<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wait till you create some actual wealth. Once the mountainhomes hear of your streets paved with gold and one keg per child program they'll come in endless droves to drink all your booze and party and clutter up the halls with their pets. They won't realize you don't actually have golden streets until its too late.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->my ranger died at some point in the winter or early spring. Don't really know why, but he did.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When hunters run out of bolts they kill their food the old fashioned way: by beating it to death with their crossbow. Sometimes the prey fights back. This is almost certainly what happened.
I'd be really surprised if that is truly what everyone is thinking.
People who actually care about graphics would not even touch dwarf fortress. Even with a graphics pack.
The people who use graphic packs are people who found the learning curve to just be too steep when they couldn't figure out what anything was.
The guy who makes DF even admits the interface is terrible and that he hasn't gotten around to working on it (more accurately, he doesn't want to put time into it until the game is more "complete"). A terrible interface paired with graphics that really make no logical sense makes for a ridiculously high learning curve. I've decreased the learning curve a bit by making most of the graphics sensible (a graphics pack doesn't make this look like halo or even zelda for GBA. There are still random things that I need to hit k to figure out what they are).
While I don't like halo much and really don't like the hyper-realistic trend in the game industry, you were in fact lucky about the fratboy part. I am in a fraternity, though I don't consider that to really be a crucial aspect of my character. Merely one of the paths I took in college. (Though I actually took that path and then went to the sidewalk instead of being in the bus with everyone else because I found that having to deal with that many people didn't fit well with my daily life. I like having the constant friends there, but I need my space.)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When hunters run out of bolts they kill their food the old fashioned way: by beating it to death with their crossbow. Sometimes the prey fights back. This is almost certainly what happened.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Since I didn't have any bolts, I'm sure that's really the reason but still. Why wouldn't he be able to kill warthogs with his bare hands? He was a dwarf!
I really have two reasons I'm playing DF.
1. Because I keep hearing about it.
2. Because I'm going to college for game design and feel that playing games, even the ones with crappy interfaces, is an important research technique.
My opinions on DF are not fully formed as I haven't been playing it long enough, though I have listened to interviews from the guy and have a pretty solid opinion on him.
Right now he is living off of the donations this project gets. He actually quit his job to work on DF. His motivation to this project is inspiring, but he is making it for the wrong reason. He is making it for himself, and it is just happening to turn out to be a good game. He doesn't have any real plans to make it marketable and the way he talks about it indicated to me that this is just his hobby. A hobby that he is immensely involved in to the point that he doesn't do anything else, but a hobby none the less.
Because this game is so novel in what it is achieving it probably could be very marketable, but he doesn't seem to have any plans towards such a goal. He's happy just living off donations and working on this. Once again I say- it's great for him. It's just not the mindset required to be a successful game designer.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Since I didn't have any bolts, I'm sure that's really the reason but still. Why wouldn't he be able to kill warthogs with his bare hands? He was a dwarf!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, but hes a dwarf with no bolts up against a warthog fighting for his life. Warthogs can get a few lucky hits in just like anybody else.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Right now he is living off of the donations this project gets. He actually quit his job to work on DF. His motivation to this project is inspiring, but he is making it for the wrong reason. He is making it for himself, and it is just happening to turn out to be a good game. He doesn't have any real plans to make it marketable and the way he talks about it indicated to me that this is just his hobby. A hobby that he is immensely involved in to the point that he doesn't do anything else, but a hobby none the less.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think thats the way games should be done. As art, for the love of the medium itself, not for money. The Same Gameplay Again XIII is what you get when your goal is to make money, and I'm sick of that ######. Theres a reason you rarely see this kind of creativity in a big name company. This guy has a real talent for creating emergent environments, just read his <a href="http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3549/interview_the_making_of_dwarf_.php" target="_blank">gamasutra interview</a> to get an idea of how much effort he put into creating the world generator. The game doesn't have a scripted story with flashy cutscenes that run for several minutes, the stories naturally emerge from the gameplay itself. And its not even finished.
It is my solemn promise to you that so long as I am mayor, no child will be left sober!
I've got a bronze colossus stomping around outside my fort at the moment. He took out all the human swordsmen from the caravan that visited recently, sustaining only mild injuries to its upper body. Thankfully it seems content chasing groundhogs around the map. The problem arises when one of my dwarves heads out to pick up the corpse. I've lost two so far.
I'm also losing dwarves to starvation. I've got plenty of food so I must presume they can't afford food. Damn capitalism.
--Scythe--
I've got a bronze colossus stomping around outside my fort at the moment. He took out all the human swordsmen from the caravan that visited recently, sustaining only mild injuries to its upper body. Thankfully it seems content chasing groundhogs around the map. The problem arises when one of my dwarves heads out to pick up the corpse. I've lost two so far.
I'm also losing dwarves to starvation. I've got plenty of food so I must presume they can't afford food. Damn capitalism.
--Scythe--<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm pretty sure dwarves wont starve if they can't afford food. They'll just eat what's cheapest, and then they'll be in debt. If you have only *Quarry bush leaves roast [39]*, they'll eat those and be in debt for the rest of their lives <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
You should check if all your food is accessible, and that you haven't (accidentally) forbidden them all, or something.
<img src="http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/files/DF/DFG3.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<a href="http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/df.htm" target="_blank">http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/df.htm</a>
Nil, what graphics pack are you using? How do you like it? What complaints do you have?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That one. My only complaint is that because the letter "O" seems to be used for a certain type of wall, any text which is supposed to have a capital O in it instead has a wall <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
I like that grass and plants actually look like grass and plants now rather than an indistinguisable mass of .,'.,';,.' which is supposed to represent a bush.
I like the default tileset. I got used to it before there WERE any other tilesets, and now I'm happy with it the way it is. I'm never going to use alternate tilesets unless they actually make the game pretty (but I'd welcome that). But anything that decreases the learning curve without dumbing the game down is more than welcome, as that'll bring more players to the game. I don't care that they can't read the Matrix in raw form.
QFT. It's love of the game man. You can't teach that.
<!--quoteo(post=1676814:date=Apr 25 2008, 07:30 AM:name=Nil_IQ)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Nil_IQ @ Apr 25 2008, 07:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1676814"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That one. My only complaint is that because the letter "O" seems to be used for a certain type of wall, any text which is supposed to have a capital O in it instead has a wall <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
I like that grass and plants actually look like grass and plants now rather than an indistinguisable mass of .,'.,';,.' which is supposed to represent a bush.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah I'm using the same tileset and all of my dorfs are named Reg Veld[Tree]erkan, Itmus Arb[candlestick]maruth, [door]ran Relstrick. I think of it as a feature.
--Scythe--
--Scythe--<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ah. Dwarves not eating when the economy activated was known bug in that version. They're gonna starve. Sorry.
I wasn't offended by it, but put off by the elitism attitude in the joke, and was feeling particularly talkative. It may have been a joke to say halo playing whatever, but do you really think a graphics set makes the quality of the game worse? That's the point I felt like ranting about. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think thats the way games should be done. As art, for the love of the medium itself, not for money. The Same Gameplay Again XIII is what you get when your goal is to make money, and I'm sick of that ######. Theres a reason you rarely see this kind of creativity in a big name company. This guy has a real talent for creating emergent environments, just read his <a href="http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3549/interview_the_making_of_dwarf_.php" target="_blank">gamasutra interview</a> to get an idea of how much effort he put into creating the world generator. The game doesn't have a scripted story with flashy cutscenes that run for several minutes, the stories naturally emerge from the gameplay itself. And its not even finished.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Even artists need to consider the commercial value while they are making art. It's a fact of life. Just because someone is trying to make money does not mean it is not being done as art or for the love of it. I love designing video games and I love making them, but I would like to be successful in the future. When I'm designing games I try to consider what other people will like, not just myself, and try to consider how to ensure the game is playable and can reach a good sized audience. I am not saying that everyone needs to go make Counter-Strike, just that to be a successful game designer you need to consider your audience.
I was actually talking to a professor today. He was saying that a story involves conflict, resolution, etc. Story elements. DF generates the setting for a story, but no story is ever created except by your own imagination. It's not like reading a book where you actually have a story to get involved in (which is why people read books and watch movies). I'm actually arguing the opposite side I did this morning because I'd like to hear some more arguments as to why DF could be considered a generated story.
I can write a story about the events that happen in the game, but that's exactly the difference between games with story and games with setting. The setting is a place and has events that can be turned into a story, but DF has no narrator to put these events into a coherent story with climax resolution etc...
Yup. I'm longwinded. So sue me. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
We're on topics that I am rather passionate about. I may want to make money with video games, but I didn't go to college for it just to get money. It's because it's something I have passion for, I appreciate as an art, and I truly enjoy.
To the others that are using this pack, you can turn it into a lite version that doesn't mess with text, though this also means the grass gets ugly and stuff.
If you look through the folders there is a psd file which you can use tochange the tileset to the lite version (you will need to use the wiki as well probably)
edit:
I'm not sure one of my previous questions was answered. How do I make it so people carry the warthog corpses back to my fortress?
If you look through the folders there is a psd file which you can use tochange the tileset to the lite version (you will need to use the wiki as well probably)
edit:
I'm not sure one of my previous questions was answered. How do I make it so people carry the warthog corpses back to my fortress?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Standing order: o
Refuse order: r
gather refuse from outside: dont know which key
Thanks for the link. I was actually looking for more information on how the systems in here actually work, so that made good reading. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Yay, I lost my first game of Dwarf Fortress!
Question from this game... Why did I run out of plump helmet seeds, and why when I had them again did my farmers not plant?
(How do I make a farming system that is sustainable... if it's in sand it doesn't need water, right?)
My new society will run on kittens, I believe. Kittens and dwarven wine.
Yay, I lost my first game of Dwarf Fortress!
Question from this game... Why did I run out of plump helmet seeds, and why when I had them again did my farmers not plant?
(How do I make a farming system that is sustainable... if it's in sand it doesn't need water, right?)
My new society will run on kittens, I believe. Kittens and dwarven wine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When you cook plump helmets, you loose the seed!
But when you brew them you keep the seed.
Eating them raw will also preserve the seed.
So just forbid cooking of plump helmets.
z
select kitchen
make lump helemts cook red
Farm plots can be made over muddy or soil tiles. Muddy tiles are tiles, that had/have water on them.
After a while you might need to rewater your plots. (You will see a message like: There are no available seeds for this plot. This is pretty irritating and just means: GIMME SOME WATER!)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Even artists need to consider the commercial value while they are making art.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd say thats pretty much the antithesis of what art is all about. Thats why we have the term "sellout".
I'd say thats pretty much the antithesis of what art is all about. Thats why we have the term "sellout".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Art is what you create. It is about expressing yourself. Modifying your design or concept so that a larger number of people can appreciate and understand your message and what you intend for people to get out of it does not remove its artistic element.
There is a difference here between making art for yourself and making art for others, and it isn’t just due to money. They are different methods of creating and neither is wrong. The issue I have is that if you are creating art for yourself it requires a lot more luck to actually be successful. With games especially, if you do consider how other people will view them and what issues they will have you will be able to put solutions in place for these issues to ensure that the experience is very enjoyable for anyone playing.
To be a successful game designer as I see it, you need to be able to make popular games time and time again. When you are considering others and you know the market creating a successful game requires less luck. This point I believe will be a big issue to you, and to that I present a question. Is it not art if you are given an assignment for an art class such as “fantasy painting� If the market is very open to one type of game, the fact that an idea draws inspiration from this does not make it any less of art. As with the art assignment, it is all about how you do it and the experience you create.
There are things that when designing a game I would not change just because people want me to. One example of this is excessive gore. I just don’t see the need for it and putting it in would go against my principles. On the other hand, I would change some things such as the controls if I realized other people would have difficulty with it.
I think this is the main thing. As long as you aren’t going against your principles, it is not selling out and it is still art*. To change a game to make it reach a larger audience, or to change a game to make it more marketable does not make it less of art unless it is going against the artist’s beliefs and against the creative vision they have for the game.
*In the case of being a “selloutâ€, one must also consider the principles they have portrayed to those loyal them.
Dwarf Fortress, Basic Concepts:
Dwarf Fortress has one main goal: Survival!
Although there are alot of different achievements, like killing a dragon or becoming montainhome, to achieve those you need to survive which means your dwarves need to survive.
To survive a dwarf needs 3 things: Something to drink, something to eat and protection from hostile lifeforms as well as the dangers of living among other dwarves.
Lets talk about the first: Something to drink.
This can be either water or booze. Because alot of dwarves get lazy when they don't get to drink booze you want to establish a solid booze supply for your dwarves. Booze can be either bought from traders or you can brew certain plants. To get those plants you can either gather them, which can be dangerous or you can safely grow them on your own farm.
Lets talk about the second: Something to eat.
Dwarves can eat certain things raw, but prefer their food to be cooked before consumption. Among the things that can be eaten raw are plump helmets, meat and turtles. Food production can involve alot of steps. The following ways allow you to obtain food: Hunt animal and then butcher at the butchery. Fish turtles and eat the raw. Fish and prepare fish at the fishery. Gather directly edible plants. Gather cookable plants. Grow directly edible plants. Grow cookable plants. Grow plants, mill them and the use that product to cook. Grow plants, process them and then cook that product.
These are alot of options, so the first here go the first tips:
When you embark to a site, don't take meat with you. Instead take turtles with you. This is because they are also ediable raw and eating raw turtles will leave behind a shell, which will later be put to good use.
From the available seeds, just take plump helmets seeds with you. They can be grown the whole year, can be ate raw, cooked and brewn into booze. This makes them some kind of universal super plant.
In order to secure an efficient food an booze supply take the following steps: Embark with 25 plump helmet spawns, 50 turtles and 200 of any kind of booze. 1 Dwarf is a proficient cook/grower and 1 who is a proficient brewer/grower. When at the site build a 5x5 farm plot and let them grow plump helmets the whole year.
It is also important to note, that cooking a plump helmet will destroy its seed, while eating it raw and brewing it will preserve the seed. In the stock screen (z) you will see a kitchen sub-menu. There you should forbid cooking of plump helmets, to prevent the seed from getting destroyed. Because booze can also be cooked, all you need to do is cook some of that booze from time to time and keep the still running 24/7.
With these tips, it should be easy to safe your dwarves from starvation/dying of thirst.
You probably need to try abit, to work out a good rhythm for yourself and till you get the numbers right.
Ok, so we covered 2 basic dwarven needs. Now for need number 3. Protection. Dwarves needs to be protected from the following: Wildlife, Invading races and other dwarves going berserk.
Lets start with the third one. To prevent your dwarves from going hurting each other you need to keep them happy. This is a rather easy concept: Getting hurt and family members dieing=bad, eating well prepared food, having an own bed = good. There are of course more, but these matter to us the most at the moment. Because we already have a dedicated cook/brewer our dwarves should be eating/drinking only primo grub. This will keep them happy for most of the time and certainly at the start. But then there is also a way how a dwarf can go berserk, without anything going wrong. Sometimes dwarves are taken by a mood, or withdraw from society or become possessed. When in these states they will try to create an artefact. A powerful item. To create these artefact they will first claim a workshop, so you should make sure that there is always at least one of each workshop type in our fort. After they claim the workshop they will demand certain goods that they then create the artefact from. These good can be: Stone, wood, leather, bones, cut gems, raw gems, cloths and shells! Yep, the reason why you are supposed to bring turtles instead of meat is shells. They are the hardest material to come by later (no kidding) and when a dwarf hits a mood and you don't have shells it is usally too late to organize some and the dwarf might go berserk. If you are not able to fulfil the dwarves need for certain resources he will go mad or berserk and might start hurting other dwarves and destroying parts of your fort. To prevent this you should always be able to lock a dwarf in the workshop.
To make it short: Keep dwarves happy by making good food (best way, cause dwarves eat regularly) and always bring turtels, so that you have enough shells to please artefact makers.
Protect your dwarves from wildlife: Depending on your environments you can have everything, ranging from marmots to zombie elephants or even worse: carps. Due to a bug in the current version dwarves are extremely deadly and thus you should never fish, unless you ran out of shells. The most effective way to protect your dwarves from dangerous wildlife is to start going underground and make sure your dwarves don't return to the surface unless necessary. So start digging that fort, don't provoke wildlife by hunting them and most importantly make sure that the entrance to your fort entrance is located behind a long corridor, filled with traps. They are currently the most effective way to dispose of nearly any foes.
Protect your dwarves from invasions: Goblins will naturally try to invade your fort, these invasion are triggered by the amount of wealth you have generated. S you might want to start producing masterwork gold furniture AFTER you have secured your fort. As for securing your fort, the same that I already said on how to combat wildlife has been said. Traps, traps, traps. In fact dealing with invasion is usually easier, cause you actually have time to build traps, whereas zombie elephants might decide to start lynching you right away. it should also be noted, that humans and elves might decide to attack you, if their caravans don't make it home safely or you rob them.
Ok, with this knowledge you should be able to fend of starvation, dying from thirst and hostile lifeforms. So lets look some more into the embark screen.
There are 3 resource you can build stuff from in dwarf fortress. Wood, stone and metal. If you start off without any of these 3 and no way to obtain them, you are doomed!
Lets talk about wood. Wood has 3 main uses: Creating charcoal which is needed for steel and general smiting if you don't have access to magma, It plays in important role in the creation of clear and crystal glass. It is the ONLY material that beds can be made from. Because sleeping on the ground will make your dwarves unhappy and might lead to them hurting other dwarves. Not having beds is not biggy at first, but after several years of sleeping on the ground and not having an own room when the economy kicks in it will make your dwarves very unhappy. So you need a way to produce about 200 beds. However, the only axe available on the embark screen costs a whopping 300 points and you do not need wood straight away. So you can trade the axe for 1 unit of charcoal and one copper bar. That's only 20 points spend and you are able to make a copper axe, the second you have erected a forge. If you bring an anvil, this is a safe choice. If you do not bring an anvil you wont be able to gather any wood until a caravan trades you an anvil.
Stone. This should be your main building material. Workshops, tables, doors, grates. Almost anything can be build from stone. It is obtained by digging into the ground/mountain with picks. No picks means way to dig and thus no stone. So make sure that you ALWAYS bring at least one pick. At only 20 points for the copper pick it is exactly as costly, as making one yourself.
Metal. Metal is smelted from ores and then processed at the forge. To get ore you need picks and to process the metal you need an anvil. Meta is not important at first, but when you need weapons, armour or high quality furniture to please nobles you just need it. Anvils can be however bought from caravans. So you might consider not taking one with you. If you take one with you you can, as already pointed out make your own axe, thus reducing the anvils costs to 720 points.
Not for the actual embarking.
You have 7 dwarves and 2060 points to spend.
If you put a maximum of points into skills, you have 1570 points left for items. So if you take a normal axe AND an anvil that's only 270 left to spend! Take the anvil and make the axe yourself, that's 570 left. If you take the axe, but leave the anvil, that's 1270 point left. As you can see, the anvil/axe choice is a rather important one. Before I continue with items, I will tell you a solid starting build.
Every of these dwarves have put each 5 points into their mentioned skills.
1 Miner/Carpenter
1 Miner/Mason
1 Woodcutter/Building Designer
1 Stone Crafter/Appraiser
1 Grower/Cook
1 Grower/Brewer
1 Mechanic/Engraver
AS you can seem 2 dwarves are busy with food/booze production another 2 dig the fort and produce basic furniture 1 will create traps for security and irrigation systems, as well as smoothing all the walls. 1 will cut wood and design pumps needed for irrigation and wells etc. and 1 dwarf creates goods for the caravan and trades them.
Now for the which items to take:
You definitely want:
2 copper picks for the 2 miners: 20 points
1 rope: 20 points (needed for a well)
25 plump helmet spawns: 25 points
at least 50 turtles: 2 points each
at least 150 booze: 2 points each
lets add those necessities up: 485 points! Seems like taking the anvil AND the axe is out of the question. Though smiting the axe yourself will still work.
if you have excess points I suggest spending them on the following: Barells or wood, if you do not have much wood in your selected area. Bauxite if you need magma proof mechanisms. Bags, if you have sand in your area and intend to work with glass. More booze, more food. 1 Iron bar, if you want to tap magma early an need something to keep fire imps away. Or pets. 2 dogs cost 32 points and will produce lots of offspring, which is a good source for meat. It should be noted, that you cannot always bring certain goods on the embark screen.
Ok, I hope this will help you to survive the first years, so that your fort may be destroyed by something much more interesting than starvation.
Instead, invest some of those points into getting a few other types of starting seeds so you don't have to worry about acquiring them later when you need them. Pig tails can be spun into thread, then woven into cloth, then tailored into clothing. Good to have when your dwarves start complaining about ragged clothing.
However, maybe the inexperienced player should concentrate more on the bare necessities, to leave margin for error. It's up to how confident you feel that everything will go right from the beginning.
Huh,
I actually explained the 4 basic choices:
Anvil + Axe
Anvil + Self made Axe
No Anvil + Axe
No Anvil + Self made Axe
Sure, bringing no anvil is normally no problem, but I had games where the caravans just didn't bring any anvils, though I requested them through the trade agreement.
And again the well is an option. If you have a brook just ignoring booze and going for the well can work. And wounded dwarves only drink water, so the 20 poits invested into a rope are usually good spent. If you dont build the well that early you can also use it to chain a dog.
As you might have noted: I wrote it mainly as some sort of heads up to those relatively new to df, who are having trouble keeping their dwarves alive. Hence the heavy focus on plump helmets, although I personally prefer cave wheat/sweet pods for booze and quarry bushes for food.
Heck, I even played a game where I started with nothing (no skills/no items) and survived. (Ok, granted the trick is to build the trade depot with the wood from the wagon and hope that the local wildlife is able to kill the caravan and that you can pickup a pick from the remains, but its still the hardest starting build imaginable) It's actually all about timing. Because you can reuse the 3 logs, gather some plants, build a kitchen, farmers workshop and fishery and then dismantle those and build the depot right in time.
Edit: I would also like to know, what you recommend as an easy survival build to new players. Weapons?
But to each their own. The only "wrong" starting builds are the ones that make early survival difficult. All your produced wealth and all your immigrants will eventually far outweigh your starting goods/dwarves, so all that matters is that you have what you need to get a fortress going.