I've tended to see alot more rine victorys in 3.2 Nothing in the alien array with a 2nd hive up can actually stand a chance versus a skilled HMGer.
I mean, even I can take down a focus fade in co_ now, thats ###### up <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1586593:date=Dec 10 2006, 01:57 PM:name=Ivul)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ivul @ Dec 10 2006, 01:57 PM) [snapback]1586593[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I've tended to see alot more rine victorys in 3.2 Nothing in the alien array with a 2nd hive up can actually stand a chance versus a skilled HMGer.
I mean, even I can take down a focus fade in co_ now, thats ###### up <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
teamwork... get a lerk that spore the marine before attacking him when the fade goes in umbra him
ive become a huge fan of the lerk with 3.2, it seems it has so much to contribute to the team now try it out sometime, dont try to solo as you maybe did earlier with fades...
yes, lerk has probably become much more importent due to armor nerf and his umbra, however lerk is still to slow with celerity... I have noted this while playing CO vs. a bunch of jetpackers, and they are almost as fast as lerk, but with the possibility to shoot you while following them. Thats realy bad, you cant reach them (you've got almost the same speed or with cel slightly more than the jp'ers, but this still takes too long), and they can shoot all the time at you.
I'd say increase the lerk with celerity to 3.1 level (!), but keep the "pancake block" (that was good imho)
<!--quoteo(post=1585361:date=Dec 7 2006, 08:27 PM:name=UncleCrunch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(UncleCrunch @ Dec 7 2006, 08:27 PM) [snapback]1585361[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> @Exploder Maybee it's because people clearly see that you can't count on fades (whatever they are good or not; they seems to die more) in the middle game. So the only thing to do is to get the upper hand in the early game.
That spoils the rest of the game. We gonna see a lot of 'rage quiters' if it is validated. And i must admit; i don't see the point on playing the game when you cannot do anything to 'save the day' after a bad or average 'start'.
What i like in NS is that you have choices in tactics (field), strategy (chambers / tech). The more i see new version the less i find ways to play it. I feel it becomes CS-dumb-land sometimes. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah I see, and I agree. It's becoming increasingly more important to have early Fades now because they lose a lot of their power in the later stages of the round after the marines have upgraded their tech.
Somehow it's so easy for the marines now after the tech upgrades, and it really indicates more CS-like gameplay since the marines can do anything if they just have the aim for it.
Well, I'm a complete newb at NS, however I'm a veteran of taking an active role in balancing complex FPS games.
Perhaps the solution is to:<ul><li>Restore the Fade/Lurk mobility.</li><li>Restore the Onos carapace.</li></ul>That way the old skoolers can rely on their skilled mobility, to fight skilled aim. And an Onos rush would break stalemates, (and act as a meatshield when working with other aliens.)
Reason I mention this is a generic rule of thumb used for balancing units: "Speed. Damage. Armor. Pick two."
_
Also one thing I noticed, Marines don't have to keep buying HMGs and Shotguns if they pick them up again after they die. Aliens, if they die, they lose all of their gear.
Maybe something should be done to correct that. For instance, when aliens die, their remains can be reclaimed for Res. Or maybe their upgrades/enhancements can be reclaimed.
_
Hell, another method to use to make it so that hive 2&1 is better. (Note: This is a completely naive comment) What if aliens started with hive3 enhancements?
_
Anyways feel free to flame me on this <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
I have not noticed a problem with the survivability of fades in public or competetive play :/ I HAVE noticed a problem with the survivability of careless individuals but theyre asking for it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> I consider myself to be a pretty god awful fade and have no issues with it :o People are complaining that 1. if the marines have an advantage in the early game they should lose it in the middle game for no reason, 2. tier1 advanced lifeforms should not be able to die to mass-res-invested (4+ hmgs) tier2 tech :/ In 3.1 a skilled hive2 celerity focus fade would have a very, VERY high chance of survival against 3 skilled lv2 weapon 2HMG+1SG marines without any of the OTHER availible fade buffs, now the situation is different only so much as for a fade to do that hed probably need umbra. Aliens DO get a performance buff at the second hive, its called UPGRADE CHAMBERS, now a lot of people thought that the double boost of hive armour + upgrades was a little harsh for early tier2. Maybe this change is too severe, its probably a change that is easier to balance, personally NOT ONCE has the health of my hive2 units bothered me apart from the first time I played 3.2 because my brain was running on 3.1 numbers. If your fade getting ambushed randomly was a problem you would get carapace or scent of fear, this is not 3.1 you gotta be flexible and strategic like <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> Quite WHY youd have those problems I dont know, but there are a plethora of options to cover your weakpoints or buff your strengths TRY THEM FFS cause im sick of your whining <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1590334:date=Dec 19 2006, 09:50 PM:name=ZiGGY)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ZiGGY @ Dec 19 2006, 09:50 PM) [snapback]1590334[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> GreyFlcn is the paperclip of game development! :o<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Heh, well the reason I'm framing it with "perhaps" so much is since I <b>know</b> I don't know ish yet. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
However I do know gameplay balance as it relates to other games.
What I don't know yet is the scale about what I'm talking about. Or how everything relates to each other.
_
In general though, balance problems come from a reduction in choices. And if the endgame Aliens end up without much viable options thats a problem.
But like I said, the hell if I know if their options are good bad or whatever ;D I'm just going off what I'm reading here.
<!--quoteo(post=1590366:date=Dec 19 2006, 06:51 PM:name=GreyFlcn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GreyFlcn @ Dec 19 2006, 06:51 PM) [snapback]1590366[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Heh, well the reason I'm framing it with "perhaps" so much is since I <b>know</b> I don't know ish yet. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
However I do know gameplay balance as it relates to other games.
What I don't know yet is the scale about what I'm talking about. Or how everything relates to each other.
_
In general though, balance problems come from a reduction in choices. And if the endgame Aliens end up without much viable options thats a problem.
But like I said, the hell if I know if their options are good bad or whatever ;D I'm just going off what I'm reading here. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your lucky I told him about the game man, He is from the Planetside community (Just like me) and he has to be one of the most intelligent person that can help out sort out the gameplay. Give him a couple weeks watch what he has to say
Holy Crap! theres still a Planetside community. I thought Sony had updated that game so much they completely nuked the community to oblivion. It was great for about the first 9 to 12 months after release, but then it got gimpled to hell with updates and an expansion. Little hint sony, Don't release a completely new expansion when the first game isn't even balanced yet. It seems to be a trend of theirs though.
Anyways, it's nice Greyflcn is giving input, but maybe he should play a little more first. Also it's great to see another new face.
I won't even comment on 3.2 because I've not touched beta. I'll just wait for the official release. From what I'm reading though overall I like it. I'm glad they gimped lerk pancaking, because I thought that was completely ridiculous. Lerk was made as and is a support class. It should not be able to pancake through a group of marines and take them out in a attack or two. It should be working with other aliens giving spure/umbra support and picking off weakened marines. I also think making the alien stradegy more versatile is a great improvement; it's better then being stuck with the same hive chamber progression ever map. Woops, looks like I did get a comment or two in on 3.2.
<!--quoteo(post=1585324:date=Dec 7 2006, 12:57 PM:name=Leon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Leon @ Dec 7 2006, 12:57 PM) [snapback]1585324[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->After playing 3.2 enough (and fading) it seems that using +movement rather than my old keybindings is much more efficent. Tap mouse2 for blink and it switches back to swipe as I bhop.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Just to clarify, there's no switching happening there. +movement performs your movement ability without changing weapons at all. This is significant because, for example, as a Fade you can select Metabolize, hold down +attack and use +movement to Blink while simultaneously Metabolizing the whole time.
<!--quoteo(post=1590409:date=Dec 19 2006, 10:39 PM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Zek @ Dec 19 2006, 10:39 PM) [snapback]1590409[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Just to clarify, there's no switching happening there. +movement performs your movement ability without changing weapons at all. This is significant because, for example, as a Fade you can select Metabolize, hold down +attack and use +movement to Blink while simultaneously Metabolizing the whole time. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
the blink sprite comes up as you hold +movement though (which if you are like me and get confused by little mice that bite your toes during the night, can be extremely confusing, irregardless of whether or not it selects the weapon).
<!--quoteo(post=1590334:date=Dec 19 2006, 04:50 PM:name=ZiGGY)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ZiGGY @ Dec 19 2006, 04:50 PM) [snapback]1590334[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> GreyFlcn is the paperclip of game development! :o
In 3.1 a skilled hive2 celerity focus fade would have a very, VERY high chance of survival against 3 skilled lv2 weapon 2HMG+1SG marines without any of the OTHER availible fade buffs, now the situation is different only so much as for a fade to do that hed probably need umbra. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Raising the mobility off the fade wouldnt unbalance it it would just raise the skill-roof of the lifeform abit. The lowered speed off the fade and the armor didnt change too much for the fade it just made everyone get carapace. Fix blink rof and nerf carapace for fades.
<!--quoteo(post=1590946:date=Dec 21 2006, 04:56 PM:name=vms)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(vms @ Dec 21 2006, 04:56 PM) [snapback]1590946[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Restore blink rof and nerf carapace for fades.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo(post=1590409:date=Dec 20 2006, 02:39 AM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Zek @ Dec 20 2006, 02:39 AM) [snapback]1590409[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> This is significant because as a Fade you can Blink while simultaneously Metabolizing the whole time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, whatever ya do, have to keep that ^ in mind.
_
So which is the main cause of the Alien pwning? Is it Fade mobility? Or is it Hive Armor?
What should be the way forward? A) Hive armor be restored, and Blink stay as is. B) Blink be restored, and Hive armor as is. C) Both be restored, and Fade get it's HP/Armor reduced.
vms is just worried they might loose an alien round once and a while.
vms is nL coming back next season? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> pff that just wont happen ;D and yeah were just inactive over xmas but well be back after this.
<!--quoteo(post=1591138:date=Dec 22 2006, 03:36 AM:name=Doppy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Doppy @ Dec 22 2006, 03:36 AM) [snapback]1591138[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Increase Onos HP/Armor and it would be balanced I think.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Was thinking about that one myself.
Had a lot of people saying. "Oh noes, we can't break down Marine stalemates." Ideally, Onos should be a battering ram ;D
(Warning naive comment) Was also wondering if it's Hive2 Stomp should be swapped for Charge at Hive2. Or maybe pump up Umbra. Would make the Hive2 a lot better at rushing spawns.
pSyk0mAnNerdish by NatureGermanyJoin Date: 2003-08-07Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
edited December 2006
Stomp should just be more effective. Since jp were rendered immune against stomp, I dont see why other marines can simply counter it by standing on a railing, for example. Recently I've played a game on eon where aliens lost their second hive (core) to sieging marines just because the onos stomp did nothing to them. Instead of balancing each map and thus limiting the layout options just increase the vertical range of stomp.
It's still the most effective killing machine the aliens have. Let's work on making the other classes more useful -- please!
And give the aliens some sort of end-game. Hive 3 weapons have all been nerfed to fit into combat, and without hive 3 armor, they have no real assault strength against an A3/W3 marine team that is entrenched and determined.
<!--quoteo(post=1591253:date=Dec 22 2006, 02:16 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Align @ Dec 22 2006, 02:16 PM) [snapback]1591253[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> The reason onos sucks now is because it costs a mere 4 points in CO. Increase onos CO cost, make onos inherently bettar! <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Screw CO
<!--quoteo(post=1591253:date=Dec 22 2006, 06:16 AM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Align @ Dec 22 2006, 06:16 AM) [snapback]1591253[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> The reason onos sucks now is because it costs a mere 4 points in CO. Increase onos CO cost, make onos inherently bettar! <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> ...am I the only one wondering how making something cost more improves it?
I think he was referring to the fact that hitpoints were tuned so that they were the same in Combat and Classic despite the fact that the two play very differently.
<!--quoteo(post=1591339:date=Dec 22 2006, 01:48 PM:name=Underwhelmed)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Underwhelmed @ Dec 22 2006, 01:48 PM) [snapback]1591339[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> ...am I the only one wondering how making something cost more improves it? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you make it cost more in CO, then you can make it more powerful without "unbalancing" (ha ha) CO. That allows you to also make it more powerful in NS mode, and NOT change the cost there, so it will be more worth the money.
<!--quoteo(post=1591369:date=Dec 22 2006, 09:28 PM:name=Cereal_KillR)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cereal_KillR @ Dec 22 2006, 09:28 PM) [snapback]1591369[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Or, we can seperate combat and classic hitpoint values. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sounds like a winner.
I really dont know what you guys are complaining about, if you work as a team the aliens are a very strong adaptive and stable force to be reckoned with that even johnny pleb could get to grips with if the tactics and strategy were even remotely sound :o
Im gonna say this here, sacrificing fun to achieve "Perfect balance" is, in my opinion, a HIGHLY misguided belief. Were not dealing with absolutes here, the only thing that you can truly class as "imbalanced" would be a mechanical and outright invincible strategy :p THAT would make the game instantly degenerate into repetetion -- one sided repetition at that! (BAD!) What people are experiencing atm is that some things are just not as likely to be done ALONE, people complaining their fade cant take ont he entire alien team solo in a 9v9 is ludicrous! On the other hand we see a lot of buffs neither team uses, the aliens seem totally unwilling to use battle gorges, and the marines seem totally unwilling to use catpacks, how theyplay out I havent anything truly concrete on -- 'in a public game' -- Balance is near impossible to guage for pubs cause teamwork is such a big factor :p A fade could very well struggle to kill a HMG'er solo in SOME situations, but 2 organised fades are likely to team rows and rows of armed marines to shreds :p I have NEVER, EVER, EVER noticed an alien team to struggle to come up with options to fight the marines, IF THEY WORK TOGETHER (in a pub). So in this respect aliens arent too weak, yes theyre weaker, thats a pretty easy observation that xhp > yhp, but to just rashly buff the fade has extreme consequences elsewhere in the puzzle, now those 2 fades that could tear through marines are gonna tear through much more marines... and theyre not even going to have to try. Distinguishing between the difficult, the unfeasible and the impossible isnt as generic as it would first appear. There are many ways for the aliens to weaken the marines at their disposal, many of them are too abstract for newer players to even realise :p
And YES it WOULD be possible to make a super super super buff invincible fade AND make the game balanced, but the balances are near absolute counters and the fun just goes through the floor :p This version has been the funnest and most exciting for a while, up to this version many fun changes have been implemented into the game such as self-healing gorges. we ARENT trying to play a (perfectly) balanced game, were trying to play a (perfectly) FUN game. Aslong as the balance isnt severe to the point of impossible games then let the dynamic play and evolve and change with the times :p I would much rather play a game of flexible double edged scenarios than rigid solid repetetive games, are the two even different I couldnt really tell you, but I think most would have a quixotic notion towards one over the other ;)
<!--quoteo(post=1591377:date=Dec 22 2006, 04:57 PM:name=ZiGGY)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ZiGGY @ Dec 22 2006, 04:57 PM) [snapback]1591377[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I really dont know what you guys are complaining about, if you work as a team the aliens are a very strong adaptive and stable force to be reckoned with that even johnny pleb could get to grips with if the tactics and strategy were even remotely sound :o <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Agreed 3.2 is in no way worse than any other version
stop replying too fast vms <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> I jacked up my post with a lot of ramblings for your reading pleasure anyways <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Comments
Nothing in the alien array with a 2nd hive up can actually stand a chance versus a skilled HMGer.
I mean, even I can take down a focus fade in co_ now, thats ###### up <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
I've tended to see alot more rine victorys in 3.2
Nothing in the alien array with a 2nd hive up can actually stand a chance versus a skilled HMGer.
I mean, even I can take down a focus fade in co_ now, thats ###### up <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
teamwork... get a lerk that spore the marine before attacking him
when the fade goes in umbra him
ive become a huge fan of the lerk with 3.2, it seems it has so much to contribute to the team now
try it out sometime, dont try to solo as you maybe did earlier with fades...
I'd say increase the lerk with celerity to 3.1 level (!), but keep the "pancake block" (that was good imho)
@Exploder
Maybee it's because people clearly see that you can't count on fades (whatever they are good or not; they seems to die more) in the middle game. So the only thing to do is to get the upper hand in the early game.
That spoils the rest of the game. We gonna see a lot of 'rage quiters' if it is validated. And i must admit; i don't see the point on playing the game when you cannot do anything to 'save the day' after a bad or average 'start'.
What i like in NS is that you have choices in tactics (field), strategy (chambers / tech). The more i see new version the less i find ways to play it. I feel it becomes CS-dumb-land sometimes.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah I see, and I agree. It's becoming increasingly more important to have early Fades now because they lose a lot of their power in the later stages of the round after the marines have upgraded their tech.
Somehow it's so easy for the marines now after the tech upgrades, and it really indicates more CS-like gameplay since the marines can do anything if they just have the aim for it.
however I'm a veteran of taking an active role in balancing complex FPS games.
Perhaps the solution is to:<ul><li>Restore the Fade/Lurk mobility.</li><li>Restore the Onos carapace.</li></ul>That way the old skoolers can rely on their skilled mobility, to fight skilled aim.
And an Onos rush would break stalemates, (and act as a meatshield when working with other aliens.)
Reason I mention this is a generic rule of thumb used for balancing units:
"Speed. Damage. Armor. Pick two."
_
Also one thing I noticed,
Marines don't have to keep buying HMGs and Shotguns if they pick them up again after they die.
Aliens, if they die, they lose all of their gear.
Maybe something should be done to correct that.
For instance, when aliens die, their remains can be reclaimed for Res.
Or maybe their upgrades/enhancements can be reclaimed.
_
Hell, another method to use to make it so that hive 2&1 is better.
(Note: This is a completely naive comment)
What if aliens started with hive3 enhancements?
_
Anyways feel free to flame me on this <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
I have not noticed a problem with the survivability of fades in public or competetive play :/ I HAVE noticed a problem with the survivability of careless individuals but theyre asking for it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> I consider myself to be a pretty god awful fade and have no issues with it :o People are complaining that 1. if the marines have an advantage in the early game they should lose it in the middle game for no reason, 2. tier1 advanced lifeforms should not be able to die to mass-res-invested (4+ hmgs) tier2 tech :/
In 3.1 a skilled hive2 celerity focus fade would have a very, VERY high chance of survival against 3 skilled lv2 weapon 2HMG+1SG marines without any of the OTHER availible fade buffs, now the situation is different only so much as for a fade to do that hed probably need umbra.
Aliens DO get a performance buff at the second hive, its called UPGRADE CHAMBERS, now a lot of people thought that the double boost of hive armour + upgrades was a little harsh for early tier2. Maybe this change is too severe, its probably a change that is easier to balance, personally NOT ONCE has the health of my hive2 units bothered me apart from the first time I played 3.2 because my brain was running on 3.1 numbers. If your fade getting ambushed randomly was a problem you would get carapace or scent of fear, this is not 3.1 you gotta be flexible and strategic like <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> Quite WHY youd have those problems I dont know, but there are a plethora of options to cover your weakpoints or buff your strengths TRY THEM FFS cause im sick of your whining <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
GreyFlcn is the paperclip of game development! :o<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Heh, well the reason I'm framing it with "perhaps" so much is since I <b>know</b> I don't know ish yet. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
However I do know gameplay balance as it relates to other games.
What I don't know yet is the scale about what I'm talking about.
Or how everything relates to each other.
_
In general though, balance problems come from a reduction in choices.
And if the endgame Aliens end up without much viable options thats a problem.
But like I said, the hell if I know if their options are good bad or whatever ;D
I'm just going off what I'm reading here.
Heh, well the reason I'm framing it with "perhaps" so much is since I <b>know</b> I don't know ish yet. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
However I do know gameplay balance as it relates to other games.
What I don't know yet is the scale about what I'm talking about.
Or how everything relates to each other.
_
In general though, balance problems come from a reduction in choices.
And if the endgame Aliens end up without much viable options thats a problem.
But like I said, the hell if I know if their options are good bad or whatever ;D
I'm just going off what I'm reading here.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your lucky I told him about the game man, He is from the Planetside community (Just like me) and he has to be one of the most intelligent person that can help out sort out the gameplay. Give him a couple weeks watch what he has to say
Anyways, it's nice Greyflcn is giving input, but maybe he should play a little more first. Also it's great to see another new face.
I won't even comment on 3.2 because I've not touched beta. I'll just wait for the official release. From what I'm reading though overall I like it. I'm glad they gimped lerk pancaking, because I thought that was completely ridiculous. Lerk was made as and is a support class. It should not be able to pancake through a group of marines and take them out in a attack or two. It should be working with other aliens giving spure/umbra support and picking off weakened marines. I also think making the alien stradegy more versatile is a great improvement; it's better then being stuck with the same hive chamber progression ever map. Woops, looks like I did get a comment or two in on 3.2.
Just to clarify, there's no switching happening there. +movement performs your movement ability without changing weapons at all. This is significant because, for example, as a Fade you can select Metabolize, hold down +attack and use +movement to Blink while simultaneously Metabolizing the whole time.
Just to clarify, there's no switching happening there. +movement performs your movement ability without changing weapons at all. This is significant because, for example, as a Fade you can select Metabolize, hold down +attack and use +movement to Blink while simultaneously Metabolizing the whole time.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
the blink sprite comes up as you hold +movement though (which if you are like me and get confused by little mice that bite your toes during the night, can be extremely confusing, irregardless of whether or not it selects the weapon).
GreyFlcn is the paperclip of game development! :o
In 3.1 a skilled hive2 celerity focus fade would have a very, VERY high chance of survival against 3 skilled lv2 weapon 2HMG+1SG marines without any of the OTHER availible fade buffs, now the situation is different only so much as for a fade to do that hed probably need umbra.
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Raising the mobility off the fade wouldnt unbalance it it would just raise the skill-roof of the lifeform abit. The lowered speed off the fade and the armor didnt change too much for the fade it just made everyone get carapace.
Fix blink rof and nerf carapace for fades.
vms is just worried they might loose an alien round once and a while.
vms is nL coming back next season?
Restore blink rof and nerf carapace for fades.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
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This is significant because as a Fade you can Blink while simultaneously Metabolizing the whole time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, whatever ya do, have to keep that ^ in mind.
_
So which is the main cause of the Alien pwning?
Is it Fade mobility? Or is it Hive Armor?
What should be the way forward?
A) Hive armor be restored, and Blink stay as is.
B) Blink be restored, and Hive armor as is.
C) Both be restored, and Fade get it's HP/Armor reduced.
vms is just worried they might loose an alien round once and a while.
vms is nL coming back next season?
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pff that just wont happen ;D and yeah were just inactive over xmas but well be back after this.
Increase Onos HP/Armor and it would be balanced I think.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Was thinking about that one myself.
Had a lot of people saying.
"Oh noes, we can't break down Marine stalemates."
Ideally, Onos should be a battering ram ;D
(Warning naive comment)
Was also wondering if it's Hive2 Stomp should be swapped for Charge at Hive2.
Or maybe pump up Umbra.
Would make the Hive2 a lot better at rushing spawns.
Since jp were rendered immune against stomp, I dont see why other marines can simply counter it by standing on a railing, for example.
Recently I've played a game on eon where aliens lost their second hive (core) to sieging marines just because the onos stomp did nothing to them.
Instead of balancing each map and thus limiting the layout options just increase the vertical range of stomp.
It's still the most effective killing machine the aliens have. Let's work on making the other classes more useful -- please!
And give the aliens some sort of end-game. Hive 3 weapons have all been nerfed to fit into combat, and without hive 3 armor, they have no real assault strength against an A3/W3 marine team that is entrenched and determined.
The reason onos sucks now is because it costs a mere 4 points in CO. Increase onos CO cost, make onos inherently bettar!
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Screw CO
The reason onos sucks now is because it costs a mere 4 points in CO. Increase onos CO cost, make onos inherently bettar!
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...am I the only one wondering how making something cost more improves it?
...am I the only one wondering how making something cost more improves it?
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If you make it cost more in CO, then you can make it more powerful without "unbalancing" (ha ha) CO. That allows you to also make it more powerful in NS mode, and NOT change the cost there, so it will be more worth the money.
Or, we can seperate combat and classic hitpoint values.
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Sounds like a winner.
Im gonna say this here, sacrificing fun to achieve "Perfect balance" is, in my opinion, a HIGHLY misguided belief. Were not dealing with absolutes here, the only thing that you can truly class as "imbalanced" would be a mechanical and outright invincible strategy :p THAT would make the game instantly degenerate into repetetion -- one sided repetition at that! (BAD!) What people are experiencing atm is that some things are just not as likely to be done ALONE, people complaining their fade cant take ont he entire alien team solo in a 9v9 is ludicrous!
On the other hand we see a lot of buffs neither team uses, the aliens seem totally unwilling to use battle gorges, and the marines seem totally unwilling to use catpacks, how theyplay out I havent anything truly concrete on -- 'in a public game' --
Balance is near impossible to guage for pubs cause teamwork is such a big factor :p A fade could very well struggle to kill a HMG'er solo in SOME situations, but 2 organised fades are likely to team rows and rows of armed marines to shreds :p
I have NEVER, EVER, EVER noticed an alien team to struggle to come up with options to fight the marines, IF THEY WORK TOGETHER (in a pub). So in this respect aliens arent too weak, yes theyre weaker, thats a pretty easy observation that xhp > yhp, but to just rashly buff the fade has extreme consequences elsewhere in the puzzle, now those 2 fades that could tear through marines are gonna tear through much more marines... and theyre not even going to have to try. Distinguishing between the difficult, the unfeasible and the impossible isnt as generic as it would first appear.
There are many ways for the aliens to weaken the marines at their disposal, many of them are too abstract for newer players to even realise :p
And YES it WOULD be possible to make a super super super buff invincible fade AND make the game balanced, but the balances are near absolute counters and the fun just goes through the floor :p This version has been the funnest and most exciting for a while, up to this version many fun changes have been implemented into the game such as self-healing gorges.
we ARENT trying to play a (perfectly) balanced game, were trying to play a (perfectly) FUN game.
Aslong as the balance isnt severe to the point of impossible games then let the dynamic play and evolve and change with the times :p I would much rather play a game of flexible double edged scenarios than rigid solid repetetive games, are the two even different I couldnt really tell you, but I think most would have a quixotic notion towards one over the other ;)
I really dont know what you guys are complaining about, if you work as a team the aliens are a very strong adaptive and stable force to be reckoned with that even johnny pleb could get to grips with if the tactics and strategy were even remotely sound :o
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Agreed 3.2 is in no way worse than any other version