<!--quoteo(post=1588639:date=Dec 15 2006, 01:30 AM:name=UltimaGecko)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(UltimaGecko @ Dec 15 2006, 01:30 AM) [snapback]1588639[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I'll concede that my post doesn't really have much to do with FPS being banned in Germany, but you guys have just rocketed off subject...and are now orbiting Vega or Alpha Centauri or something. I'm fairly sure that we (the sane amongst us) can all agree that torture in Guantanamo Bay doesn't have anything to do with banning a First Person Shooter in Bavaria. Why can't someone just invent something that politicians get bash on for causing all our problems, yet nobody cares if it goes away? I'm surprised things like Airsoft and Paintball don't contribute more to politicians' agendas...I mean, you've got realistic guns with the intend to (to some extent) cause pain in other people in a game of intense pretend war. Personally I think running around with a gun that actually shoots projectiles and has realistic actions and looks is a bit more important to focus on than fighting aliens or being annoyed with random bullet spread in a computer game. Why can't we just go back to blaming swing music and those pesky flappers, with their low-down morals and adherence to vice? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree, sorry for the disruption there.
People are always going to look for a moral crusade, be it dancing, certain celebrations (christmas at one time was thought to be evil!), drugs, alcohol, video games. This sort of crap has gone on since the puritan times where they believe if they were having fun doing anything it was distracting them.
I wish people can take responsibility for themselves.
<!--quoteo(post=1588634:date=Dec 15 2006, 12:22 PM:name=Revlic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Revlic @ Dec 15 2006, 12:22 PM) [snapback]1588634[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> How about you do me a favor and not make another post on this thread and save face. Because you haven't provided me any real proof to your argument other then hearsay about what you consider torture. But then again you probably haven't the slightest clue what real torture is anyway.
And as for ad hom attacks, that's me getting personal pleasure mocking your intelligence. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1588648:date=Dec 15 2006, 12:40 PM:name=Revlic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Revlic @ Dec 15 2006, 12:40 PM) [snapback]1588648[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Wow I didn't know that Wikipedia is a reputable source of information. Seeing as how it's able to be edited by the general public.
Seriously now. Would you do a college report citing wikipedia? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Would I assume you went to college? Your english and logic skills would suggest you went to primary school at least, so I'll work on that basis. And wikipedia holds lists to references, look at the references. Currently you hold as much clout as the guy on the corner screaming about the wrath of god.
But that's about as much time as I'm willing to waste on an intellectual infant such as yourself. Enjoy, i'm tagging myself out of this thread, deemed "the winnar".
<!--quoteo(post=1588651:date=Dec 15 2006, 01:43 AM:name=emperor_awesome)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(emperor_awesome @ Dec 15 2006, 01:43 AM) [snapback]1588651[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Would I assume you went to college? Your english and logic skills would suggest you went to primary school at least, so I'll work on that basis. And wikipedia holds lists to references, look at the references. Currently you hold as much clout as the guy on the corner screaming about the wrath of god.
But that's about as much time as I'm willing to waste on an intellectual infant such as yourself. Enjoy, i'm tagging myself out of this thread, deemed "the winnar". <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't take Amnesty International's word for anything, because their organization's practices as a whole is laughable. You will never hear AI talk about real torture going on the world but are quick to make comments on America's prison systems.
So yeah, citing them is like citing democratic underground. They are pretty much ruined as a reputable source of information on human rights. They are ideologically based, they are politically biased, and what's worse, very selective on what they consider a human rights violation.
If you want to continue anymore discussion on this, Id suggest you starting a thread in discussions centering around this topic, so that this one can continue with it's subject matter.
<!--quoteo(post=1588607:date=Dec 15 2006, 01:19 AM:name=UltimaGecko)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(UltimaGecko @ Dec 15 2006, 01:19 AM) [snapback]1588607[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Maybe if he hadn't spent his money to make bombs they wouldn't have foreclosed on his farm in the first place. Baa-zing.
What do you call this, then? [Image removed to cut down on size, see original post by clicking the little arrow thingie.]
That's right, a memorial. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's right, a memorial. Over a former concentration camp. I never attempted to deny the reality of the concentration camps, but we don't use them anymore. The existence of that memorial indicates repentance, if anything. What irks me is how it is brought up again and again, as if we were the only people in history whose forefathers committed atrocities. For those who would like to know more, I suggest researching the expression "Vergangenheitsbewältigung." You could start out at <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vergangenheitsbew%C3%A4ltigung" target="_blank">Wikipedia</a>, but as we all know that anything that is posted on Wikipedia becomes a lie by default, you may want to skip down to the literature list and just start looking at some of that.
First off, wikipedia was checked for accuracy alongside the Encyclopedia Britannica and when the results came in people were surprised to find that they both lay in the same high percentiles. Chances are, if it's on wikipedia and it's about a serious subject it'll be correct; if you're in any doubts you can always check other sources but it's not a bad place to start when you're researching something. I've seen too many people brush off wikipedia just because it's inconvenient to their argument despite the fact it's accuracy is confirmed to be equal to one of the most trusted collections of factual information I can think of.
Second off, both Revlic and Emperor Awesome; you both look pretty silly from here. Remember what they say about arguing on the internets... :p There's nothing wrong with having opinions but you should be aware that other people are allowed to have their own too. If you want to resort to insulting each other you'd be better off taking it to PMs or a parking lot.
<!--quoteo(post=1588773:date=Dec 15 2006, 12:51 AM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Dec 15 2006, 12:51 AM) [snapback]1588773[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> That's right, a memorial. Over a former concentration camp. I never attempted to deny the reality of the concentration camps, but we don't use them anymore. The existence of that memorial indicates repentance, if anything. What irks me is how it is brought up again and again, as if we were the only people in history whose forefathers committed atrocities. For those who would like to know more, I suggest researching the expression "Vergangenheitsbewältigung." You could start out at <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vergangenheitsbew%C3%A4ltigung" target="_blank">Wikipedia</a>, but as we all know that anything that is posted on Wikipedia becomes a lie by default, you may want to skip down to the literature list and just start looking at some of that. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was trying to help your point, but satirical obviousness (especially in the fact that concentration camps are still there, and they're a constant reminder of the attrocities committed) doesn't carry well without one of them <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> or <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> smilies...and I'm not sure how well that would appear next to a holocaust-related picture. I'm just kind of surprised more people don't bring up Stalin, who holds responsibility for the deaths of far more people. Or maybe decimation and such in the Roman army; imagine what they'd be like if they could get their hands on video games.
Personally I'm a bit disappointed at the lack of historical memorials for the Japanese internment camps that got erected over here, but apparently when us American's utterly destroy an entire ethnicity's wellbeing within our political boundaries we don't need to atone for it. Maybe we need a thread to demark every society's ethnic, moral and social attrocities from the beginning of time until the present, and we'll all be able to be like "oh, you English, you let King Richard butcher thousands of prisoners outside of Acre in 1191." Then we'll all be on equal footing with our ability to throw crazy, unnecessary, incongruent ideas around. Sounds like a good plan, right?
I agree with Gem, you both look silly, neither of you seem to be making any progress in the argument and if this continues, I'll request that the moderators lock the thread.
Most if not all countries make their mistakes in a big way, get over it.
want an example besides the German/Jewish Holocaust: <a href="http://www.healthsystem.virginia.edu/internet/library/historical/eugenics/index.cfm" target="_blank">Eugenics</a> Yes, there was a eugenics program in the US.
I really wish that people wouldn't just assume that Americans are unintelligent. It actually evokes an emotional response from me sometimes, and that's hard to do.
But Gwahir, stereotypes make it conveniently un-necessary to think for myself! Think of my tiny, incapable mind! I NEED stereotypes to simplify my world-view!
<!--quoteo(post=1585628:date=Dec 8 2006, 07:46 AM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Dec 8 2006, 07:46 AM) [snapback]1585628[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> It also has nothing to do with World War Two. Stay topical, folks. "Germany killed jews lolz" doesn't really belong here. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I beg to differ. WW2 is the reason Germany is so paranoid about "violent" games of all kinds ("Wehret den Anfängen!"). Why do you think the German media always links Paintball to neo-nazis?
Allow me to illustrate this with a simple equation: first-person shooters = real violence = war = WW2 = Nazis = Holocaust = the ultimate evil
CrystalSnake, what I meant is that the whole "Germany killed jews lolz" thingy was a blatant attempt at guilt-tripping and lording it over germans. And that doesn't belong in the thread. Those who want to do that can march over to the Discussions forum and start a "Germany killed jews lolz" thread there, and I'll gladly discuss it with them.
Comments
I'll concede that my post doesn't really have much to do with FPS being banned in Germany, but you guys have just rocketed off subject...and are now orbiting Vega or Alpha Centauri or something. I'm fairly sure that we (the sane amongst us) can all agree that torture in Guantanamo Bay doesn't have anything to do with banning a First Person Shooter in Bavaria.
Why can't someone just invent something that politicians get bash on for causing all our problems, yet nobody cares if it goes away? I'm surprised things like Airsoft and Paintball don't contribute more to politicians' agendas...I mean, you've got realistic guns with the intend to (to some extent) cause pain in other people in a game of intense pretend war. Personally I think running around with a gun that actually shoots projectiles and has realistic actions and looks is a bit more important to focus on than fighting aliens or being annoyed with random bullet spread in a computer game. Why can't we just go back to blaming swing music and those pesky flappers, with their low-down morals and adherence to vice?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree, sorry for the disruption there.
People are always going to look for a moral crusade, be it dancing, certain celebrations (christmas at one time was thought to be evil!), drugs, alcohol, video games. This sort of crap has gone on since the puritan times where they believe if they were having fun doing anything it was distracting them.
I wish people can take responsibility for themselves.
How about you do me a favor and not make another post on this thread and save face. Because you haven't provided me any real proof to your argument other then hearsay about what you consider torture. But then again you probably haven't the slightest clue what real torture is anyway.
And as for ad hom attacks, that's me getting personal pleasure mocking your intelligence.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ahahahahahahahahahahahah.
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guant%C3%A1namo_Bay_detainment_camp" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guant%C3%A1na...detainment_camp</a>
Knock yourself out, genius.
Ahahahahahahahahahahahah.
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guant%C3%A1namo_Bay_detainment_camp" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guant%C3%A1na...detainment_camp</a>
Knock yourself out, genius.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow I didn't know that Wikipedia is a reputable source of information. Seeing as how it's able to be edited by the general public.
Seriously now. Would you do a college report citing wikipedia?
Wow I didn't know that Wikipedia is a reputable source of information. Seeing as how it's able to be edited by the general public.
Seriously now. Would you do a college report citing wikipedia?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Would I assume you went to college? Your english and logic skills would suggest you went to primary school at least, so I'll work on that basis. And wikipedia holds lists to references, look at the references. Currently you hold as much clout as the guy on the corner screaming about the wrath of god.
Or if you want amnesty international, here:
<a href="http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR511492006?open&of=ENG-313" target="_blank">http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAM...&of=ENG-313</a>
But that's about as much time as I'm willing to waste on an intellectual infant such as yourself. Enjoy, i'm tagging myself out of this thread, deemed "the winnar".
Would I assume you went to college? Your english and logic skills would suggest you went to primary school at least, so I'll work on that basis. And wikipedia holds lists to references, look at the references. Currently you hold as much clout as the guy on the corner screaming about the wrath of god.
Or if you want amnesty international, here:
<a href="http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR511492006?open&of=ENG-313" target="_blank">http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAM...&of=ENG-313</a>
But that's about as much time as I'm willing to waste on an intellectual infant such as yourself. Enjoy, i'm tagging myself out of this thread, deemed "the winnar".
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't take Amnesty International's word for anything, because their organization's practices as a whole is laughable. You will never hear AI talk about real torture going on the world but are quick to make comments on America's prison systems.
So yeah, citing them is like citing democratic underground. They are pretty much ruined as a reputable source of information on human rights. They are ideologically based, they are politically biased, and what's worse, very selective on what they consider a human rights violation.
If you want to continue anymore discussion on this, Id suggest you starting a thread in discussions centering around this topic, so that this one can continue with it's subject matter.
Excuse my idiocy.
Maybe if he hadn't spent his money to make bombs they wouldn't have foreclosed on his farm in the first place.
Baa-zing.
What do you call this, then?
[Image removed to cut down on size, see original post by clicking the little arrow thingie.]
That's right, a memorial.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's right, a memorial. Over a former concentration camp. I never attempted to deny the reality of the concentration camps, but we don't use them anymore. The existence of that memorial indicates repentance, if anything. What irks me is how it is brought up again and again, as if we were the only people in history whose forefathers committed atrocities.
For those who would like to know more, I suggest researching the expression "Vergangenheitsbewältigung." You could start out at <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vergangenheitsbew%C3%A4ltigung" target="_blank">Wikipedia</a>, but as we all know that anything that is posted on Wikipedia becomes a lie by default, you may want to skip down to the literature list and just start looking at some of that.
First off, wikipedia was checked for accuracy alongside the Encyclopedia Britannica and when the results came in people were surprised to find that they both lay in the same high percentiles. Chances are, if it's on wikipedia and it's about a serious subject it'll be correct; if you're in any doubts you can always check other sources but it's not a bad place to start when you're researching something. I've seen too many people brush off wikipedia just because it's inconvenient to their argument despite the fact it's accuracy is confirmed to be equal to one of the most trusted collections of factual information I can think of.
Second off, both Revlic and Emperor Awesome; you both look pretty silly from here. Remember what they say about arguing on the internets... :p
There's nothing wrong with having opinions but you should be aware that other people are allowed to have their own too. If you want to resort to insulting each other you'd be better off taking it to PMs or a parking lot.
That's right, a memorial. Over a former concentration camp. I never attempted to deny the reality of the concentration camps, but we don't use them anymore. The existence of that memorial indicates repentance, if anything. What irks me is how it is brought up again and again, as if we were the only people in history whose forefathers committed atrocities.
For those who would like to know more, I suggest researching the expression "Vergangenheitsbewältigung." You could start out at <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vergangenheitsbew%C3%A4ltigung" target="_blank">Wikipedia</a>, but as we all know that anything that is posted on Wikipedia becomes a lie by default, you may want to skip down to the literature list and just start looking at some of that.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was trying to help your point, but satirical obviousness (especially in the fact that concentration camps are still there, and they're a constant reminder of the attrocities committed) doesn't carry well without one of them <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> or <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> smilies...and I'm not sure how well that would appear next to a holocaust-related picture. I'm just kind of surprised more people don't bring up Stalin, who holds responsibility for the deaths of far more people. Or maybe decimation and such in the Roman army; imagine what they'd be like if they could get their hands on video games.
Personally I'm a bit disappointed at the lack of historical memorials for the Japanese internment camps that got erected over here, but apparently when us American's utterly destroy an entire ethnicity's wellbeing within our political boundaries we don't need to atone for it. Maybe we need a thread to demark every society's ethnic, moral and social attrocities from the beginning of time until the present, and we'll all be able to be like "oh, you English, you let King Richard butcher thousands of prisoners outside of Acre in 1191." Then we'll all be on equal footing with our ability to throw crazy, unnecessary, incongruent ideas around. Sounds like a good plan, right?
Most if not all countries make their mistakes in a big way, get over it.
want an example besides the German/Jewish Holocaust: <a href="http://www.healthsystem.virginia.edu/internet/library/historical/eugenics/index.cfm" target="_blank">Eugenics</a>
Yes, there was a eugenics program in the US.
I really wish that people wouldn't just assume that Americans are unintelligent. It actually evokes an emotional response from me sometimes, and that's hard to do.
Now what about them FPS games, eh?
It also has nothing to do with World War Two. Stay topical, folks. "Germany killed jews lolz" doesn't really belong here.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I beg to differ.
WW2 is the reason Germany is so paranoid about "violent" games of all kinds ("Wehret den Anfängen!").
Why do you think the German media always links Paintball to neo-nazis?
Allow me to illustrate this with a simple equation:
first-person shooters = real violence = war = WW2 = Nazis = Holocaust = the ultimate evil