schkorpioI can mspaintJoin Date: 2003-05-23Member: 16635Members
<!--QuoteBegin-MeDiC2+Jun 28 2004, 05:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MeDiC2 @ Jun 28 2004, 05:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Thief-+Jun 24 2004, 12:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-Thief- @ Jun 24 2004, 12:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> We dont need a flame thrower. Itd be cool, but marines just have too many advantages right now.
What the aliens really need are more long range weapons, why don't we give them that? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Im a newb so if you dont like my idea, then dont read it:
A FT is a decent idea. I made this joke a while back, and I think it holds pretty ttrue too.
Two problems I have with NS:
1) The aliens I can kill effecintlly are fast and up to my knee. 2) Anything BIGGER needs Bush to declare WAR on it to win.
Think about it. The Marines get 100 or so armor at most, and 100hp.
Aliens get 2 creatures that have like 200hp and 300 armor. hmm Unbalenced you say? I do
Also, Aliens most of the time, get one shot kills. And mostly if its not one shot. Its two to five.
The Marines I believe got **** luck for weapons. Fades are almost impossible to kill one on one or even 2 on 1. I had a squad of people, and all 5 of us were wiped out by 2 fades. Both fades lived.
A FT would probably even the odds, at least on a SPORE lvl. Rines dont have anything that lingers around after it has been realeased. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> unfortunatley i had to read your idea to decide not to like it <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
you see the reason aliens have a lot more health and generally only take 2-4 bites to kill is because they dont have ranged weapons. marines do.
<!--QuoteBegin-Avenger-X+Jun 27 2004, 07:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Avenger-X @ Jun 27 2004, 07:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm starting to get this whole idea about how not to worry about balance now and worry about it later, and I like it
yeah if you want to make the Aliens stronger you need to make the marines stronger, I'm sure that the aliens would get a cool counter to the flamethrower and if the aliens got it then that'd be cool to. don't be so closed minded, the argument of " we don't need it" just won't cut the mustard, right now a lot of people think the FT would add to gameplay and be cool, so you'll have to cook up something better then just that.
if NS stops growing here and now why would the dev teams bother making a NS2? for reals we got to keep wanting new things and more stuff for the game to grow, and I think the flamethrower is a great thing to want. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> if "we don't need one" isn't a valid argument then "it'd be cool" is an equally weak argument. "it would add to gameplay" just doesn't cut it. It's not even in the game, we have no idea what effect if will have on gameplay when it's not even in the game.
so, again...flamethrowers are cool in movies.
again...marines don't need one. There are no holes in the marine arsenal. and why add to a game that is complex enough to balance as it is? it's better to not mess with it and just leave it alone. K.I.S.S. keep it simple stupid. NS is already past that time, but theres no point in adding more that we don't need.
alright frosty you go play ricochet with the other 8 year old and leave the real mods for the big boys
if you want to keep it simple we'd all still be playing pong and HL wouldn't even be around
a FT would be a great add on to NS , you could clear vents, you could make WALLS OF FIRE with a couple guys all with FTs, you could do all sorts of fun things... it'd just be great
I see where your coming from frosty and I know you don't want to ruin such a great game, but NS needs to grow and we'll never know how a FT would work unless we try
I propose that in order to fit a flamethrower in, we must find a PURPOSE for it. I'm thinking it would good Kharaa BBQer. Maybe in HL2, we can cut a piece of a chamber with our knives and cook it with our flamethrower and wala, bone-appetit!
On a more serious note, I am thinking we could have the shotgun tweaked to have like MASSIVE spread so that it would really be hard to kill a skulk with, and that's where the FT's niche would come in, to kill skulks, but the FT would suck against heavier armored units like fade or onos and buildings... just an idea though. Maybe you need to build an observatory to get the gun, so marines won't have it right away like the shotgun... I dunno, diss me or my ideas, I'm just trying to find a niche for it.
Frosty, if you want NS to reach its peak the best way to do it is to completely cut off any new features and just let it stagnate until people get tired of it and quit. Did NS "need" any of the new things that have been implemented since 1.04? No, not really. We could easily have just tweaked the numbers and gotten the game mostly balanced without wasting time on a single new, unnecessary feature. How long do you think the game would last like that? Stop thinking of every addition in terms of absolute necessity and balance. If we don't put in new things once in a while it will get stale and the playerbase is only going to shrink.
<!--QuoteBegin-Zek+Jun 28 2004, 11:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zek @ Jun 28 2004, 11:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Frosty, if you want NS to reach its peak the best way to do it is to completely cut off any new features and just let it stagnate until people get tired of it and quit. Did NS "need" any of the new things that have been implemented since 1.04? No, not really. We could easily have just tweaked the numbers and gotten the game mostly balanced without wasting time on a single new, unnecessary feature. How long do you think the game would last like that? Stop thinking of every addition in terms of absolute necessity and balance. If we don't put in new things once in a while it will get stale and the playerbase is only going to shrink. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree we need new features to keep growing.
As said before, not to fill a gap, it'd be implemented for coolness.
But I'd rather see it replace the shotgun than the GL. Shotgun is close range, that'd be coverd by the Flame Thrower. Also, if it couldn't be worn with JetPack we'd get rid of Jetpack + Shotgun (don't hate me <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> ). If there'd still be more damage types, flame could be made not to be devastating to each and every alien.
<!--QuoteBegin-SajberToffe+Jun 29 2004, 02:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SajberToffe @ Jun 29 2004, 02:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> As said before, not to fill a gap, it'd be implemented for coolness.
But I'd rather see it replace the shotgun than the GL. Shotgun is close range, that'd be coverd by the Flame Thrower. Also, if it couldn't be worn with JetPack we'd get rid of Jetpack + Shotgun (don't hate me <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> ). If there'd still be more damage types, flame could be made not to be devastating to each and every alien. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> if a flame thrower was added just for coolness....
why not add some sort of aquatic alien? that would be just as cool........
An aquatic alien? Well it wouldn't work so well considering most the maps have no water what-so-ever.
But I see your point, if the FT is for coolness, why cant we have something cool for the aliens. And the answer is, who says we cant?
Start a new thread if you desire an aquatic alien or some other monstrosity of coolness. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
seriously, you don't need to add in useless crap for a game to be fun. Football didn't get patched to ver 1.1.1 to add in gorilla costumes. Can football still be fun? yes. chess is a pretty simple game with alot of players. you don't see a lot of new features going into chess, though, do you? A good game doesn't rely on giving the players more "cool" stuff to toy with to remain popular. A good game relies on balanced, and fun matches.
edit: counterstrike example removed once I thought about how the riot shield, galil, and famas were added. but do you really think people would have just dropped out of playing CS because they didn't have any OMG NOO EXITING GUNZZZ? doubtful. CS is really a great and balanced game with extreme replay value.
and chess may sound like a dodgy example, but chess still has LOTS of players, and chess doesn't change
Flame <i>tower</i>, on the other hand, sounds pretty useful. Imagine a turret spitting out flames to keep those pesky lerks and skulks out. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
hah. well imagine the flamethrower with friendly fire on! <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo-->
One thing i see familiar about the flamethrower is that.. everyone wants it as did everyone wanted the Riot Shield in CS.. and i believe everyone knows how that ended <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-frostymoose+Jun 29 2004, 06:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (frostymoose @ Jun 29 2004, 06:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> seriously, you don't need to add in useless crap for a game to be fun. Football didn't get patched to ver 1.1.1 to add in gorilla costumes. Can football still be fun? yes. chess is a pretty simple game with alot of players. you don't see a lot of new features going into chess, though, do you? A good game doesn't rely on giving the players more "cool" stuff to toy with to remain popular. A good game relies on balanced, and fun matches.
edit: counterstrike example removed once I thought about how the riot shield, galil, and famas were added. but do you really think people would have just dropped out of playing CS because they didn't have any OMG NOO EXITING GUNZZZ? doubtful. CS is really a great and balanced game with extreme replay value.
and chess may sound like a dodgy example, but chess still has LOTS of players, and chess doesn't change <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> A- like I said if you want something sweet and simple go play richochet
B- football is fun because you get to tackle people and stuff so thats fun
C- in CS the only reason riot shields were put in was to counter all the crazy awpers from going nuts, and half the servers ban them so its not really a big deal
D- lots of people play chess cuz most people don't have computers and a HL cd key
E- why not add riot shields to NS? drop your primary weapon and use only your pistol and a shield? ( thats another thread all toghther)
F- you say "useless crap" I say, " usefull crap" if you handed me a flamethrower right now I could go out and find a heck of a lot of uses for it
G- chess has 6 diffrent classes , aliens only have 5 , so technically they deserve one more to be as cool as chess
H- whats wrong with putting something in just to be cool? in many video games IE final fantasy 10 , they use killer CGs to impress people and just to be cool, so techinally there not needed..... so should they just not put them in?
I- so you suggest that we stop changing NS ... because they stopped changing football and chess? oh well.... who really wanted NS to get out of the beta stages anyways right?
H- whats wrong with putting something in just to be cool? in many video games IE final fantasy 10 , they use killer CGs to impress people and just to be cool, so techinally there not needed..... so should they just not put them in?
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Maybe it's because you pay for the game rather than get it free.
The title of this thread was do we really need one, so most of us said no. Of course you might have a different idea of the word "need". Need is something that is essential, maybe you should have replaced need with "want". That makes sense. For the most part, no, we don't "need" one, but some of you, like Avenger may "want" one.
dude, if were talking needs and wants at all.....do we really "need" NS at all? no, we'd live without it, but we have it, so its a game, so it should be cool, so we should have a flamethrower,cuz thats cool, end of story
IF flamethrower is about to come then I want to suggest something <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Flamethrower would have short ranged in wide areas but when using in vents, aliens would get twice as much damage as lerk spore does to marines and the damage would be done twice as fast as lerk spore affects and it would have long range, otherwise it would make damage just as much as lerk spore does. So spawncamping with flamethrower wouldnt be such a great idea...
It would be very effective when destroying structures.
I was lazy to read all those 10 pages so if someone has already decided what kind the flamethower will be please post it again at the end of this topic please <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
kent - of course the rules of a sport will change. they do not however get stuff added because it is "cool." tweaking rules of sports are exactly that - tweaks - not adding "oh emm gee kewl noo feeturs" or some such.
avenger, I think you missed the point of my last post. It was meant to show the fact that you don't need to add new stuff to everything so people will continue to play it. It just has to be fun and balanced. I don't beleive any of my posts in this topic have concentrated on how anything but a flamethrower is unneeded. To comment on final fantasy 10's cinematics...Single player gaming, especially RPGs, are very different from multiplayer gaming. I don't see how pretty CG cutscenes can hurt gameplay. They're meant to enhance the gaming experience by making the world seem more alive. What's wrong with eyecandy? You can have a ****-looking game that plays great and a great looking game that plays great. which do you want more? a gameplay change that will throw things even further out of wack isn't the same as pretty visuals.
PS: yeah...I'm sure you could think of a LOT of useful things you could do right now with a flamethrower, avenger...and then you could put them all into NS...great idea...what would that be? Shoot flamethrower at random crap because it's cool?
I don't think you can compare computer games to sports and board games. In fact I don't think you can entirely compare a mod for Half Life to a real game that must be paid for.
Everything stops developing at some point...hence chess and football, other than tweaks. Most games will stop being patched after a while.
Mods continue a long time, assuming a community is willing to allow it to. Obviously NS may not last as long as football and chess have, but now I've forgotten the point I was going to make and I'm just babbling about something or other.
I think alien cows on to something , NS will continue to grow as long as the communitie is there for it to grow, and sports comp games and board games are like apples and organges, ya can't really compare them
I don't think the flamethrower would be added just because its cool, I think it would serve a usefull purpose in the game and the whole it being cool thing would just be a bonus
What if we gave some sort of a flame thrower to the gorge instead of spit? Not a constant stream type thing, but rather a burst with a low-ish rate of fire, like that one beetle has. It mixes a couple chemicals and creates extremely hot and combustive gas that it shoots out. It seems to kinda fit the gorge with all the nano-goo and baterium and chemicals the gorge has in him.
<!--QuoteBegin-frostymoose+Jun 30 2004, 01:38 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (frostymoose @ Jun 30 2004, 01:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->seriously, you don't need to add in useless crap for a game to be fun. Football didn't get patched to ver 1.1.1 to add in gorilla costumes.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hehe, if they add gorilla costumes then maybe i'll start watching football (no offense, but i dont like football) <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Woa.. long time since my last post but i can't resist posting in a FT thread.
I am all for the addition of a flamethrower to NS. Balance isn't a problem, as damage value, AOE size and flame behavior can be tweaked later, it's just some numbers. Not to mention res cost and possible drawback effects (heavy to carry, for example). Numbers again. If it needs a counter, this can be done too, for example by tweaking up the damage of acid rockets, or by giving the lerk spikes back (1.04 lerk with new flight system for president btw, but that's another topic).
"Guys they have flamethrowers... anyone lerking?" <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> (just dreaming)
For those saying it must have a purpose, heh well... to fry things up. Some people were talking about the FT stopping regen, uncloaking aliens, things like that. And of course, for <i>fun</i> and <i>coolness</i>. I think it's completely wrong to think that fun and coolness in a <i>game</i> serves no purpose. When the handgrenades were added, we already had the GL to destroy buildings/nade spam a vent. It was not really needed but.. the model was very nice (gj Brig), not that hard to code and i guess Flayra wasnt against a new feature or two, so it was added. Since then, i enjoy when i kill someone with a nade.
Now to the valid points...
It would probably be tricky to code. But i think the dev team is skilled enough when i see what they have done with the old HL engine. It would probably pay-off sooner or later, not only by bringing new players, but also by adding more "wow" factor to NS wich is, again, important for any game in my opinion. Afaik, NS is the most important "showcase" of UwE.
There's already a particle system in NS, wich could probably be used in some way to create volumetric fire. Now i'm not a coder, and i don't know the limitations of the current particle system. Maybe it's too limited to create volumetric, directional flames that bounce on world brushes, and move around with players, lighting up the place.
And last but not least; performance. Probably the most valid point. Well, the flame doesnt have to look like in a recent 1st person shooter. Also, there could be an option to turn high-detail particles off and replace it with some sprites. Not that pretty, but so it remains low-end hardware users friendly. This would be challenging to do/tweak correctly, but i still think it's possible.
It's all up to the dev team, we can only hope and try not to cry if it never happens <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Pehmolelu+Jul 1 2004, 02:18 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Pehmolelu @ Jul 1 2004, 02:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> IF flamethrower is about to come then I want to suggest something <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Flamethrower would have short ranged in wide areas but when using in vents, aliens would get twice as much damage as lerk spore does to marines and the damage would be done twice as fast as lerk spore affects and it would have long range, otherwise it would make damage just as much as lerk spore does. So spawncamping with flamethrower wouldnt be such a great idea...
It would be very effective when destroying structures.
I was lazy to read all those 10 pages so if someone has already decided what kind the flamethower will be please post it again at the end of this topic please <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And thus you describe more or less the volumetric flame thrower that won't be put into the game unless the dev team can find a way of doing it efficiantly.
<!--QuoteBegin-Zek+Jun 28 2004, 11:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zek @ Jun 28 2004, 11:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Frosty, if you want NS to reach its peak the best way to do it is to completely cut off any new features and just let it stagnate until people get tired of it and quit. Did NS "need" any of the new things that have been implemented since 1.04? No, not really. We could easily have just tweaked the numbers and gotten the game mostly balanced without wasting time on a single new, unnecessary feature. How long do you think the game would last like that? Stop thinking of every addition in terms of absolute necessity and balance. If we don't put in new things once in a while it will get stale and the playerbase is only going to shrink. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If it doesn't bring anything to the game, then don't bother, in my opinion. I'm a supporter of the unchained chambers because it adds a lot to the game. But the trouble with the flamer is that the stereotype of it is so, so close to the roles a GL provides; anti-vent, anti-structure, defensive (gren-spamming an entrance), and general support. If the falmer provides something that other than those, all's good. Otherwise, there is no point just bunging it in "just because it looks cool".
Research GLs or Flamethrowers? Anyways, if it can be done and the team have even read this thread, and if they have even taken it into consideration, I think it should be added in a patch to see what its like...then it can be edited, tweaked, changed ---> removed, if necessary.
Just because it's added, doesn't mean we're all doomed to a crap game of NS for the rest of our lives... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
2: Ever heard of the Shotgun? One shotgun in a squad can easily take down a fade. 2 or more, and thats a dead fade before it even does any damage.
What the aliens really need are more long range weapons, why don't we give them that? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Im a newb so if you dont like my idea, then dont read it:
A FT is a decent idea. I made this joke a while back, and I think it holds pretty ttrue too.
Two problems I have with NS:
1) The aliens I can kill effecintlly are fast and up to my knee.
2) Anything BIGGER needs Bush to declare WAR on it to win.
Think about it. The Marines get 100 or so armor at most, and 100hp.
Aliens get 2 creatures that have like 200hp and 300 armor. hmm Unbalenced you say? I do
Also, Aliens most of the time, get one shot kills. And mostly if its not one shot. Its two to five.
The Marines I believe got **** luck for weapons. Fades are almost impossible to kill one on one or even 2 on 1. I had a squad of people, and all 5 of us were wiped out by 2 fades. Both fades lived.
A FT would probably even the odds, at least on a SPORE lvl. Rines dont have anything that lingers around after it has been realeased. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
unfortunatley i had to read your idea to decide not to like it <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
you see the reason aliens have a lot more health and generally only take 2-4 bites to kill is because they dont have ranged weapons. marines do.
yeah if you want to make the Aliens stronger you need to make the marines stronger, I'm sure that the aliens would get a cool counter to the flamethrower and if the aliens got it then that'd be cool to. don't be so closed minded, the argument of " we don't need it" just won't cut the mustard, right now a lot of people think the FT would add to gameplay and be cool, so you'll have to cook up something better then just that.
if NS stops growing here and now why would the dev teams bother making a NS2? for reals we got to keep wanting new things and more stuff for the game to grow, and I think the flamethrower is a great thing to want. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
if "we don't need one" isn't a valid argument then "it'd be cool" is an equally weak argument. "it would add to gameplay" just doesn't cut it. It's not even in the game, we have no idea what effect if will have on gameplay when it's not even in the game.
so, again...flamethrowers are cool in movies.
again...marines don't need one. There are no holes in the marine arsenal. and why add to a game that is complex enough to balance as it is? it's better to not mess with it and just leave it alone. K.I.S.S. keep it simple stupid. NS is already past that time, but theres no point in adding more that we don't need.
if you want to keep it simple we'd all still be playing pong and HL wouldn't even be around
a FT would be a great add on to NS , you could clear vents, you could make WALLS OF FIRE with a couple guys all with FTs, you could do all sorts of fun things... it'd just be great
I see where your coming from frosty and I know you don't want to ruin such a great game, but NS needs to grow and we'll never know how a FT would work unless we try
On a more serious note, I am thinking we could have the shotgun tweaked to have like MASSIVE spread so that it would really be hard to kill a skulk with, and that's where the FT's niche would come in, to kill skulks, but the FT would suck against heavier armored units like fade or onos and buildings... just an idea though. Maybe you need to build an observatory to get the gun, so marines won't have it right away like the shotgun... I dunno, diss me or my ideas, I'm just trying to find a niche for it.
I agree we need new features to keep growing.
But I'd rather see it replace the shotgun than the GL. Shotgun is close range, that'd be coverd by the Flame Thrower. Also, if it couldn't be worn with JetPack we'd get rid of Jetpack + Shotgun (don't hate me <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> ). If there'd still be more damage types, flame could be made not to be devastating to each and every alien.
But I'd rather see it replace the shotgun than the GL. Shotgun is close range, that'd be coverd by the Flame Thrower. Also, if it couldn't be worn with JetPack we'd get rid of Jetpack + Shotgun (don't hate me <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> ). If there'd still be more damage types, flame could be made not to be devastating to each and every alien. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
if a flame thrower was added just for coolness....
why not add some sort of aquatic alien?
that would be just as cool........
Well it wouldn't work so well considering most the maps have no water what-so-ever.
But I see your point, if the FT is for coolness, why cant we have something cool for the aliens. And the answer is, who says we cant?
Start a new thread if you desire an aquatic alien or some other monstrosity of coolness. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
edit: counterstrike example removed once I thought about how the riot shield, galil, and famas were added. but do you really think people would have just dropped out of playing CS because they didn't have any OMG NOO EXITING GUNZZZ? doubtful. CS is really a great and balanced game with extreme replay value.
and chess may sound like a dodgy example, but chess still has LOTS of players, and chess doesn't change
and i believe everyone knows how that ended <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
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edit: counterstrike example removed once I thought about how the riot shield, galil, and famas were added. but do you really think people would have just dropped out of playing CS because they didn't have any OMG NOO EXITING GUNZZZ? doubtful. CS is really a great and balanced game with extreme replay value.
and chess may sound like a dodgy example, but chess still has LOTS of players, and chess doesn't change <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
A- like I said if you want something sweet and simple go play richochet
B- football is fun because you get to tackle people and stuff so thats fun
C- in CS the only reason riot shields were put in was to counter all the crazy awpers from going nuts, and half the servers ban them so its not really a big deal
D- lots of people play chess cuz most people don't have computers and a HL cd key
E- why not add riot shields to NS? drop your primary weapon and use only your pistol and a shield? ( thats another thread all toghther)
F- you say "useless crap" I say, " usefull crap" if you handed me a flamethrower right now I could go out and find a heck of a lot of uses for it
G- chess has 6 diffrent classes , aliens only have 5 , so technically they deserve one more to be as cool as chess
H- whats wrong with putting something in just to be cool? in many video games IE final fantasy 10 , they use killer CGs to impress people and just to be cool, so techinally there not needed..... so should they just not put them in?
I- so you suggest that we stop changing NS ... because they stopped changing football and chess? oh well.... who really wanted NS to get out of the beta stages anyways right?
H- whats wrong with putting something in just to be cool? in many video games IE final fantasy 10 , they use killer CGs to impress people and just to be cool, so techinally there not needed..... so should they just not put them in?
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Maybe it's because you pay for the game rather than get it free.
The title of this thread was do we really need one, so most of us said no. Of course you might have a different idea of the word "need". Need is something that is essential, maybe you should have replaced need with "want". That makes sense. For the most part, no, we don't "need" one, but some of you, like Avenger may "want" one.
Flamethrower would have short ranged in wide areas but when using in vents, aliens would get twice as much damage as lerk spore does to marines and the damage would be done twice as fast as lerk spore affects and it would have long range, otherwise it would make damage just as much as lerk spore does. So spawncamping with flamethrower wouldnt be such a great idea...
It would be very effective when destroying structures.
I was lazy to read all those 10 pages so if someone has already decided what kind the flamethower will be please post it again at the end of this topic please <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
avenger, I think you missed the point of my last post. It was meant to show the fact that you don't need to add new stuff to everything so people will continue to play it. It just has to be fun and balanced. I don't beleive any of my posts in this topic have concentrated on how anything but a flamethrower is unneeded. To comment on final fantasy 10's cinematics...Single player gaming, especially RPGs, are very different from multiplayer gaming. I don't see how pretty CG cutscenes can hurt gameplay. They're meant to enhance the gaming experience by making the world seem more alive. What's wrong with eyecandy? You can have a ****-looking game that plays great and a great looking game that plays great. which do you want more? a gameplay change that will throw things even further out of wack isn't the same as pretty visuals.
PS: yeah...I'm sure you could think of a LOT of useful things you could do right now with a flamethrower, avenger...and then you could put them all into NS...great idea...what would that be? Shoot flamethrower at random crap because it's cool?
Everything stops developing at some point...hence chess and football, other than tweaks. Most games will stop being patched after a while.
Mods continue a long time, assuming a community is willing to allow it to. Obviously NS may not last as long as football and chess have, but now I've forgotten the point I was going to make and I'm just babbling about something or other.
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I don't think the flamethrower would be added just because its cool, I think it would serve a usefull purpose in the game and the whole it being cool thing would just be a bonus
Marines get Napalm Hurlers
Everybody sustains 3rd degree burns over 90% of their body
We all go home happy
Hehe, if they add gorilla costumes then maybe i'll start watching football (no offense, but i dont like football) <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Woa.. long time since my last post but i can't resist posting in a FT thread.
I am all for the addition of a flamethrower to NS. Balance isn't a problem, as damage value, AOE size and flame behavior can be tweaked later, it's just some numbers. Not to mention res cost and possible drawback effects (heavy to carry, for example). Numbers again. If it needs a counter, this can be done too, for example by tweaking up the damage of acid rockets, or by giving the lerk spikes back (1.04 lerk with new flight system for president btw, but that's another topic).
"Guys they have flamethrowers... anyone lerking?" <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
(just dreaming)
For those saying it must have a purpose, heh well... to fry things up. Some people were talking about the FT stopping regen, uncloaking aliens, things like that. And of course, for <i>fun</i> and <i>coolness</i>. I think it's completely wrong to think that fun and coolness in a <i>game</i> serves no purpose. When the handgrenades were added, we already had the GL to destroy buildings/nade spam a vent. It was not really needed but.. the model was very nice (gj Brig), not that hard to code and i guess Flayra wasnt against a new feature or two, so it was added. Since then, i enjoy when i kill someone with a nade.
Now to the valid points...
It would probably be tricky to code. But i think the dev team is skilled enough when i see what they have done with the old HL engine. It would probably pay-off sooner or later, not only by bringing new players, but also by adding more "wow" factor to NS wich is, again, important for any game in my opinion. Afaik, NS is the most important "showcase" of UwE.
There's already a particle system in NS, wich could probably be used in some way to create volumetric fire. Now i'm not a coder, and i don't know the limitations of the current particle system. Maybe it's too limited to create volumetric, directional flames that bounce on world brushes, and move around with players, lighting up the place.
And last but not least; performance. Probably the most valid point. Well, the flame doesnt have to look like in a recent 1st person shooter. Also, there could be an option to turn high-detail particles off and replace it with some sprites. Not that pretty, but so it remains low-end hardware users friendly. This would be challenging to do/tweak correctly, but i still think it's possible.
It's all up to the dev team, we can only hope and try not to cry if it never happens <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Regards,
Flamethrower would have short ranged in wide areas but when using in vents, aliens would get twice as much damage as lerk spore does to marines and the damage would be done twice as fast as lerk spore affects and it would have long range, otherwise it would make damage just as much as lerk spore does. So spawncamping with flamethrower wouldnt be such a great idea...
It would be very effective when destroying structures.
I was lazy to read all those 10 pages so if someone has already decided what kind the flamethower will be please post it again at the end of this topic please <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
And thus you describe more or less the volumetric flame thrower that won't be put into the game unless the dev team can find a way of doing it efficiantly.
See <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=74392' target='_blank'>this thread</a> for proof.
If it doesn't bring anything to the game, then don't bother, in my opinion. I'm a supporter of the unchained chambers because it adds a lot to the game. But the trouble with the flamer is that the stereotype of it is so, so close to the roles a GL provides; anti-vent, anti-structure, defensive (gren-spamming an entrance), and general support. If the falmer provides something that other than those, all's good. Otherwise, there is no point just bunging it in "just because it looks cool".
Anyways, if it can be done and the team have even read this thread, and if they have even taken it into consideration, I think it should be added in a patch to see what its like...then it can be edited, tweaked, changed ---> removed, if necessary.
Just because it's added, doesn't mean we're all doomed to a crap game of NS for the rest of our lives... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->