<!--QuoteBegin-UKchaos+Sep 5 2004, 06:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (UKchaos @ Sep 5 2004, 06:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> See you complain about people ignorance of scripting, but dont you see thats half the problem.
Like bunnyhopping, the fact that you have to go and research these things is a problem. These little advantages and config tweaking should be able to be found by reading the manual and by experimenting within the game and the game menu. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> There is no manual.
The game interface is not the focus of the game.
Mayhaps in the future these things will be godly.
But nowadays we have something called the Internet. It's what still distinguishes us from the console hordes. (Mua, ha) I should think interaction with a community online > robotically jumpstarted into a mindless game.
People who are lazy and/or stupid and/or afraid, or simply untalented, all looking for a quick fix, for mindless robotic fun... I really don't know what to say. Laying off the alcohol and a heavy dose of sleep should clear my mind
<!--QuoteBegin--dav+Sep 5 2004, 07:02 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-dav @ Sep 5 2004, 07:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I get pistol whipped less now, which is a good thing. That pistol script that let u fire on release was very tight. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Although I played very rarely in the past year, due to unfortunate circumstances, I can't help but think that I may have contributed to the problem.
I play on average about once a month. Towards the end of this summer I played a bit more often. Invariably I got accused of pistol scripting. I did not deny it -
Now how is it that any person good with the pistol is right away accused of scripting ? What random newbie is gonna know that you can pistol script in NS ? So the anti scripters have pulled a pretty good PR number on us. It is the expression of the endemic poison in the community. Each one of those whiners are going to go back to their buddies and complain endlessly on how he met a scripter today; together they form a lobby telling the developers how scripting is ruining the game.
Have they solved their problems, their problem of dying and of losing ? I and many others will <i>still</i> pistol whip them when the time comes. It's true, I can still bhop without scripting. I can still leap bite blink swipe without scripting. It won't matter to the average newb whether or not people are scripting because scripting has negligible effect on actual combat. Meanwhile the antiscripters have succeeded in killing off a viable and interesting way to approach NS for no good reason except ego protection. Why should people who are curious and like learning be forced around by lazy egotistical whiners? People are using scripting as a blanket excuse for their poor playing ability. They don't want to think that people they encounter daily can be better than them. Such players are better relegated to godhood status, in their minds - living unobtrusively in the heavens above. They are too lazy and stupid and afraid to learn a bit of scripting themselves. And they have whined loud enough and long enough for the lies to poison the entire community.
Who is really ruining NS? The scripters? Or the newbs ?
Who should be favored; those who are curious, or those who are lazy ? Those who are able, or those who are insecure ?
I could be more eloquent if I close my eyes and lay still sometime.
<!--QuoteBegin-ZiGGY^ @ Sep 6 2004+ 01:40AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ZiGGY^ @ Sep 6 2004 @ 01:40AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->1). Block scripts is an option, atmosphere is an opinion, this is why blockscripts IS an option and not merely 100% active.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The thing is, atmosphere and mp_blockscripts are unrelated. mp_blockscripts isn't an option <i>because</i> atmosphere is optional; the reasoning behind mp_blockscripts pertains to completely different issues. I don't think that atmosphere came into the developers' minds (or the developer's mind, according to the theory) when they conjured and implemented mp_blockscripts. They (he) were (was) more concerned with imaginary unfairness. <!--QuoteBegin-ZiGGY^ @ Sep 6 2004+ 01:40AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ZiGGY^ @ Sep 6 2004 @ 01:40AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->2). Your solution is flawed, your argument for it non-existent. Because you want it to work doesnt mean it does work.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You, too, had ought to justify what is wrong with the removal of mp_blockscripts. And are you claiming that the entire pro-scripting argument is "non-existent"? <!--QuoteBegin-ZiGGY^ @ Sep 6 2004+ 01:40AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ZiGGY^ @ Sep 6 2004 @ 01:40AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also I fail to see how there is any "taking sides" in this rather limited but poly-stanced 'argument' of conjecture and irrelevence.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I admit it's a little obscure, but you'll notice that in the top half of his original post (the only place where he really presents any arguments that "pertain" to the issue), all of his criticisms were directed at pro-scripters. To be brutally honest, I think he simply hasn't made up his mind, but if he were to do so, chances are he'd sit in with the anti-scripters.
As for those suggesting various forms of in-game scripting help, I like thes ideas; however, I don't think they should be necessary for scripts to be legal (not that I'm necessarily suggesting that you think so).
<!--QuoteBegin-SpaceJesus @ Sep 6 2004+ 05:53AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SpaceJesus @ Sep 6 2004 @ 05:53AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It doesn't help that it takes hours upon hours learning to script.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, it literally takes a matter of seconds. Scripting simply isn't complicated. And those who say that researching it is simple are correct.
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear @ Sep 6 2004+ 02:29PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Sep 6 2004 @ 02:29PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ok, pistol scripts are the one thing that bugs me with the scripts allowed in B4, 3 jump scripts essentially just make a keyboard key a mousewheel, so I could really care less, but click/release pistol scripts make unloading the pisol twice as leasurely as it is for your average non-scripter, which I do have an issue with since that simply isn't the way the game is meant to be played. There honestly is no other script that isn't increadibly easily replicated with absolutely no scripts at all, and a little bit of skill, I would know, I don't script at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, pistol scripts aren't worth worrying about, because not only is it simpler and more effective to use the mousewheel, but it also allows a finer degree of control; after all, one mightn't always <i>want</i> to fire twice, but with the pistol script, you don't have a choice.
Uzquz, you fail to realise that what they say is theoretially feasible and so sufficient to be an argument, what you say is garbled crap with no place in the world of reality. Such as asking us to "counter your non existent argument with more than an argument other than 'you arent making an argument'"
seriously... just what the hell are you digging for? :S
For the here and now: Of course, this _special command being allowed in the game is a bad thing if, as civ said, you can gain massive speed boosts just by having the right scripts. In the next beta, I'd imagine it will be gone from both flavors of scriptblock.
As to the existence of mp_blockscripts, I think it's great. It's always better to get more power into the admins' hands to tweak the game the way they want it, and it's clear that there has been some demand.
For further on (NS on a new engine, perhaps?): There are some fundamental flaws in the HL engine that (hopefully) aren't duplicated even by current games. Things like running faster when you're pressing into a wall/looking down, or moving faster by jump-crouching and turning at strange angles than simply running forward.
For now, in NS (and CS, and every other HL mod), bunny hopping is too engrained within the playhabits of the hardcore to be removed without tearing the community apart. However, in a future game (NS2? one can hope), we should learn from these mistakes.
I think the solution lies on two fronts. First, tighter code. If a certain class of characters shouldn't ever be moving faster than 50 mph, then make damn sure that there's no combination of strange twists that can ever get them faster than 50 mph. If a weapon shouldn't be able to discharge its entire clip instantly, then make sure there's some sort of hardcapped RoF no matter what button you're jamming on like a hyperactive squirrel.
That's a lot of work, but through redundancy eliminates a lot of the possibilities for unforeseen "features" cropping up, and also prevents people with the right ten-button mouse with macro software from having a hardware advantage.
Secondly, allow scripting only for a very narrow class of cosmetic commands (netgraph, scoreboard, typing out messages - "pwnzed j00", etc). Instead, work very hard to determine what commands should be accessible by every player in order to remain competitive and then make them accessible through the options menu.
If something is tedious enough to do "by hand" that players want to script it, then that thing should either be removed from the game or have a script provided for it by the engine. If people find themselves having to press two buttons at once all the time, think about providing the ability to map two functions to a single button in the options menu. To a degree, people with great manual dexterity should have an advantage, but that advantage should not be nearly insurmountable by someone with a good grasp of the strategy involved who just has trouble pressing the right ten keys at once.
A good example that illustrates this methodology is the now-in-beta Tribes: Vengeance. When the original Tribes game came out, players soon figured out that they could gain lots of extra speed using a maneuver somewhat similar to bunny hopping (in idea, if not in execution), which became known as skiing (you do it down the sides of slopes). This was an unintended feature, but was continued in Tribes 2 because it had become a fundamental part of the game. In T:V, the developers have gone one step further and actually implemented a command for skiing in the options menu. It still takes skill in the strategical sense of knowing ski routes and the best ways to pick up speed, but no longer requires tedious button pressing (it's not as difficult as bunnyhopping IMO, but just using it as an example).
<!--QuoteBegin-_.:Firestorm:._+Sep 5 2004, 05:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (_.:Firestorm:._ @ Sep 5 2004, 05:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There is no manual. The game interface is not the focus of the game. Mayhaps in the future these things will be godly. But nowadays we have something called the Internet. It's what still distinguishes us from the console hordes. (Mua, ha) I should think interaction with a community online > robotically jumpstarted into a mindless game.
People who are lazy and/or stupid and/or afraid, or simply untalented, all looking for a quick fix, for mindless robotic fun... I really don't know what to say. Laying off the alcohol and a heavy dose of sleep should clear my mind <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The "interactivity" translates to this:
<i>*Newbie creates new thread called "How do I select weapons straight away with mousewheel"*</i>
Newbie: I find it irritating that I can't use nextweapon and prevweapon on the control menu without having to spend a couple of seconds confirming the weapon I want. It doesn't get the weapon out automatically. Is there a way to do this? Regular 1: Go back to cs, nub. Regular 2: Use hud_fastswitch 1. Newbie: Hud_fastswitch 1 doesn't seem to do anything... Regular 3: OMG, just use the number buttons and SUYF. Regular 4: Use the search button. Newbie: Search doesn't seem to work... Regular 5: FFS, stupid newb, use the one at the bottom. Regular 6: I reckon this is going to get <span style='color:red'>**locked**</span>. Regular 7: It will be if you carry on spamming. Regular 8: Use hud_fastswitch 1. Moderator: This topic has come up before, and everyone seems to be getting aggressive, so I'm <span style='color:red'>**locking**</span> it.
I don't see the harm in NS being (gasp) <i>user friendly</i>.
Updated tooltips would help while we're at it. I was amused to see that when I started a game of co_, I was told that as a marine, I would have to take orders from a commander. Funny stuff, but it might be a wee bit confusing for a newbie.
Or as an alternative, someone will post a script solution, then the usual flamewar will start about scripts ruining the global economy, with the same inevitable ending.
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
Meh, i've never scripted. Mainly because i'm both lazy, and a nub, so i can't be bothered learning how to. As such, i haven't been bothered by the blockscript thing. But this is how i see it (and i'm sure all of you have informative and witty replies that counter my argument completely):
The devs want everyone on a level, fair playing field. That meanst that newbies, when they sit down to their first game, are going to be using all the same controls (apart from people who use yghj instead of wasd etc...) as someone who's been playing since day 1. There're two ways to acheive this:
1) Block every single script from the game, be it a helpful, yet not game-altering one, or one that lets you blast a skulks eyeball out from the other side of the map with your back turned to it and your knife out 9bit of an over-exageration there but meh).
2) Compile a list of all the best known and most used scripts, search through them all to decide which ones alter the gameplay adversely/making the game not how the devs wanted it to be played, and then including those scripts into the default NS config.
Which one is easier? And lets face it, if scripts give no descernable advantage in-game, then the only possible things current scripters are losing is that they have to tap the space bar to bunny hop, or they might have to set their net_graph 1 to on permamently. But like i said, i don't script, i never have, so i don't know the extent to which you can alter the game. but the way i see it, if the scripts don't give you an advantage over a default config player, there's nothing to complain about.
If you still want an edge on pub servers just make all your player skins bright orange, because scripts are more important to block then hacked skins/models.
<!--QuoteBegin-Uzguz+Sep 5 2004, 05:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Uzguz @ Sep 5 2004, 05:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear @ Sep 6 2004+ 02:29PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Sep 6 2004 @ 02:29PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ok, pistol scripts are the one thing that bugs me with the scripts allowed in B4, 3 jump scripts essentially just make a keyboard key a mousewheel, so I could really care less, but click/release pistol scripts make unloading the pisol twice as leasurely as it is for your average non-scripter, which I do have an issue with since that simply isn't the way the game is meant to be played. There honestly is no other script that isn't increadibly easily replicated with absolutely no scripts at all, and a little bit of skill, I would know, I don't script at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, pistol scripts aren't worth worrying about, because not only is it simpler and more effective to use the mousewheel, but it also allows a finer degree of control; after all, one mightn't always <i>want</i> to fire twice, but with the pistol script, you don't have a choice. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Until they invent a mouse with a good three or four mousewheels, I don't think your average player will be doing that a whole lot without using any script of any form. How are they supposed to bunnyhop then, since apparently that is impossible without either a mousewheel or a 3jump script (never mind the fact that I do it regularly).
<!--QuoteBegin-Uzguz+Sep 5 2004, 05:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Uzguz @ Sep 5 2004, 05:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Actually, pistol scripts aren't worth worrying about, because not only is it simpler and more effective to use the mousewheel, but it also allows a finer degree of control; after all, one mightn't always <i>want</i> to fire twice, but with the pistol script, you don't have a choice.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats also a matter of opinion aswell... with that double shot pistol script there is also a fine degree of control as it is semi automatic with a shot on pressing and releasing.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->blockscripts is what happens when the dev team cannot fix gameplay alterting exploits,<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its a little different when those game-altering exploits are issues with the engine and workarounds are quite messy.
<!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->bind b "buildtoggle" alias buildtoggle "buildon" alias buildon "+use; alias buildtoggle buildoff; developer 1; echo Build Toggle On; developer 0" alias buildoff "-use; alias buildtoggle buildon; developer 1; echo Build Toggle Off; developer 0"<!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
I'll have it ignoring the +showscores & +use commands next build.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->it's kind of weird that _special scripts work on servers without blockscripts now <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
_special was auctually supposed to be removed back a few builds but it wasnt. (You are crazy if you think I took it out on purpose.)
Either way most _special scripts shouldnt work on blockscripts servers if they try to issue any repeating command. Next build the command will be there but you wont be able to alias it over.
Finally, I'm going to add, that mp_blockscripts was <b><span style='color:red'>already in Natural-Selection </span></b>before I ever became a developer, <span style='color:red'><b>I simply fixed it and made it work.</b></span>
Lets not forget that servers can choose to enable, or disable this option.
If you really dont like blockscripts, you could start a little community and start up your own server with blockscripts off. <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
ByekaName changed from Freak83TorontoJoin Date: 2003-03-13Member: 14484Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-esuna+Sep 4 2004, 09:44 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (esuna @ Sep 4 2004, 09:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->bind mouse3 "skulkinv" alias skulkinv "skulkleap" alias skulkleap "slot3; alias skulkinv skulkbite" alias skulkbite "slot1; alias skulkinv skulkleap" <!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> wth, I trained my fingers to do this back in 1.04. I can do that without scripts so this is really dissapointing.
<!--QuoteBegin-SaltzBad+Sep 6 2004, 01:44 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SaltzBad @ Sep 6 2004, 01:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The issue is about special scripts working on non-scriptblocking servers, which they shouldn't. Read again. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Will be fixed in next build.
BizZy_9mm_MessiahOld School MemberJoin Date: 2003-07-25Member: 18411Members, Constellation
I love how I can't switch to my slot1 weapon. Thank you Voogru! Now all of Voogru's little fanboys are enabling mp_blockscripts on their servers because of the UNFAIR ADVANTAGE. Scripters are obviously evil and are going to pay for their sins.
<!--QuoteBegin-ZiGGY^+Sep 6 2004, 08:47 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ZiGGY^ @ Sep 6 2004, 08:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Uz<span style='color:red'>g</span>uz, you fail to realise that what they say is theoretially feasible and so sufficient to be an argument, what you say is garbled crap with no place in the world of reality. Such as asking us to "counter your non existent argument with more than an argument other than 'you arent making an argument'"
seriously... just what the hell are you digging for? :S<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> So you've never heard anyone say that there's no point blocking scripts because 3jump and the pistol script are inferior mousewheel alternatives and the only other "malicious" scripts are useless crap, and that, therefore, mp_blockscripts only affects legitimate scripts? That is the pro-scripting argument against mp_blockscripts, after all, and not only is it really an unfavourable statement about you if, during the course of this "discussion", you've never encountered that argument, but I also thought it obvious that this was my stance.
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Sep 6 2004, 12:56PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Sep 6 2004, 12:56PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Until they invent a mouse with a good three or four mousewheels, I don't think your average player will be doing that a whole lot without using any script of any form. How are they supposed to bunnyhop then, since apparently that is impossible without either a mousewheel or a 3jump script (never mind the fact that I do it regularly).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The simplest solution would be to have it fire one way, and jump the other: <!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->bind mwheelup "+attack" bind mwheeldown "+jump"<!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2--> Swap as preferred.
<!--QuoteBegin--dav+Sep 6 2004, 01:45PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-dav @ Sep 6 2004, 01:45PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Thats also a matter of opinion aswell... with that double shot pistol script there is also a fine degree of control as it is semi automatic with a shot on pressing and releasing.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> How is it "fine control" when the second shot happens whether you want it to or not?
<!--QuoteBegin-Freak83+Sep 6 2004, 03:49PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Freak83 @ Sep 6 2004, 03:49PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->wth, I trained my fingers to do this back in 1.04. I can do that without scripts so this is really dissapointing.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That script is basically a substantially less flexible version of lastinv. Why would you ever use it?
<!--QuoteBegin-voogru+Sep 6 2004, 04:04PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (voogru @ Sep 6 2004, 04:04PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Will be fixed in next build.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Thank God.
<!--QuoteBegin-Uzguz+Sep 6 2004, 01:45 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Uzguz @ Sep 6 2004, 01:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->How is it "fine control" when the second shot happens whether you want it to or not? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> lol yea u neva want to fire 2 shots at a target ey
Don't know how mwheel has a fine degree control then...
<!--QuoteBegin-milosis+Sep 5 2004, 08:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (milosis @ Sep 5 2004, 08:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> all mp_blockscripts 1 does is limit the amount of servers people can play on and further widen the gap between pubbers and clanners.
this is the only game i know of where instead of people practicing and investing time into a game to become better, they **** until the people who are better are brought down to their level. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The argument has been by the pro-scripters that scripts don't give any obvious advantage. So how is removing them bringing "people who are better down to" a lower level?
<!--QuoteBegin--pGc-Prodigy+Sep 6 2004, 02:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-pGc-Prodigy @ Sep 6 2004, 02:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-milosis+Sep 5 2004, 08:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (milosis @ Sep 5 2004, 08:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> all mp_blockscripts 1 does is limit the amount of servers people can play on and further widen the gap between pubbers and clanners.
this is the only game i know of where instead of people practicing and investing time into a game to become better, they **** until the people who are better are brought down to their level. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The argument has been by the pro-scripters that scripts don't give any obvious advantage. So how is removing them bringing "people who are better down to" a lower level? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Not that I agree with the argument you're countering, but how is for example forcing you to jump using your numpad 5 key a good gameplay change? And how does it make you more skillful than someone who is allowed to jump with a key of their choice?
The same applys for triplejumping manuevers. I don't see how having a setup that mwheels more easily is in anyway more skillful than having a setup that does not, or not even have a mousewheel. I don't see why these people should be denied access to the functionality of triplejump.
You might as well argue that NS is only fair at the base sensitivity your mouse drivers and HL are installed with, and anything else is an extremely unfair advantage. Yes it certainly is, but its one <i>necessary to make the game-design workable</i> (In the case of this analogie, its a first person shooter - which with locked clumsy controls is just absolutely no fun).
Aside from that, theres the whole rift-issue with mp_blockscripts one disallowing things that are <b>core elements</b> of actual competitive play. How are you going to keep a competitive community alive if the way NS is played there is regarded as illegal everywhere else? It'll remove alot of peoples inclination to start clanning, an experience which I can promise already brings enough trouble.
And I don't know where the misconception comes from that proponents of a 3jump regardless of mp_blockscripts 1, or any other form of simple customizability, have their personal skill at stake. Lets remember 2 things : 1. Clan matches are still mp_blockscripts 0, at least CAL 2. Pubbing isn't a challenge skillwise with or without.
So technically, they're unaffected. The game they enjoy, and the community, however is not. It throws another monkeywrench into the already sputtering inflow of new blood to the clanscene.
And this isn't just idle chatter. Today the clan I'm in shockingly enough 2-0ed someone in a scrim, and some of them gave us some disgruntled ranting about scripts instead of the customary gg. Sure, it didn't exactly hurt our feelings - but they might or might not keep clanning, because they feel they're being bested by "Scripts, the unknown evil!". :/
<!--QuoteBegin-Joe2+Sep 6 2004, 03:00 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Joe2 @ Sep 6 2004, 03:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> @voogru: don't forget to add an impulse for invprev. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And allow spamming of +jump, kthx. Maybe up to a maximum of 4 jumps/4 waits (waits being manadatory to be linked with jumps - so you can't get 4 waits into just any script).
The only thing blockscript does it forcing people to use the mousewheel instead of scripts. Really stupid since the only thing it does is to force people to play in certain ways and give them less of an option.
Blockscripts does not remove bunnyhoping or fast pistol fire, it just forces you to use the mousewheel.
<!--QuoteBegin--dav+Sep 6 2004, 05:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-dav @ Sep 6 2004, 05:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Uzguz+Sep 6 2004, 01:45 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Uzguz @ Sep 6 2004, 01:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->How is it "fine control" when the second shot happens whether you want it to or not? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> lol yea u neva want to fire 2 shots at a target ey
Don't know how mwheel has a fine degree control then... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No, you don't always. Sometimes you want to save ammunition, for instance.
And the mousewheel is capable of fine control because the notches can be clearly felt, so it is easy to stop rolling it at the precise moment.
gogo anti-scripters on your holy crusade to cleanse the game. MAYBE YOU SHOULD freaking TURN ON CONSISTENCY THEN? Jesus the hypocricy/retardedness is freaking overwhelming.
<!--QuoteBegin-Nadagast+Sep 6 2004, 12:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nadagast @ Sep 6 2004, 12:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> gogo anti-scripters on your holy crusade to cleanse the game. MAYBE YOU SHOULD freaking TURN ON CONSISTENCY THEN? Jesus the hypocricy/retardedness is freaking overwhelming. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Putting that in my sig cause its true.
omg a person with a yellow tag next to his name killed me. freaking HACKER SCRIPTER WALLHACKER MODS ADMINS DEVELOPERS MAKE THE GAME BALANCED SO THE PEOPLE WHO HOP INTO THE GAME TOMORROW CAN OWN ME 21-0 EVEN THOUGH I PLAYED FOR THE LAST 2 YEARS TRYING TO COMPETE BUT IT ISN'T FAIR THAT THESE NEWBS OWN ME OMGOMGOMG I"M SOO **** I BAN PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY ONLY COME IN AND OWN ME AND MESS WITH ME WITH THEIR SCRIPTS/HACKS AND MAKE THE GAME UNFAIR WITH THEIR REFINED GAMEPLAY BUT I PLAY WITH THIS COOL LOOKING HYDRALISK MODEL AND ZERGLING MODEL INSTEAD OF THE SKULK AND IT LOOKS FUNNY TO ME WHILE I'M HIGH AND I GET ALL EXCITED ABOUT KILL A ZERGLING IN NATURAL SELECTION OMG OMG OMG IT'S STARCRAFT LETS GET FLAMETHROWERS AND RPG'S WITH JETPACKHEAVYARMOR BECAUSE MARINES ARE WEAKER THEN ALIENS AND WHY DO I GET BANNED EVERYTIME I DROP SENSORY FIRST I THINK SENSORY IS COOL BECAUSE I CAN CLOAK FIRST AND GET A FEW KILLS THEN I REALIZE THAT BOTH HIVES ARE LOCKED DOWN AND OUR HIVE IS BEING SIEGED OMG OMG OMG WHAT A **** TEAM IT'S ALL THEIR FAULT WE LOST BECAUSE THESE NEWBS DON'T KNOW HOW TO USE CLOAKING TO STOP ENEMY FROM MOVING INTO THE HIVES BUT THOSE freaking SCRIPTING HACKERS STILL SEE ME WHEN I'M CLOAKED AND KILL ME BEFORE I CAN BITE HIM BECAUSE HE'S USING A WALLHACK AND I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE SO I'LL JUST SAY THIS GAME SUCKS ON THE FORUMS AND WAIT THERE FOR THE NEXT PERSON TO SAY SOMETHING POSITIVE AND JUST BASH HIM DOWN BECAUSE THIS GAME IS SUCKS BUT I STILL PLAY IT JUST SO I CAN GO BACK ON THE FORUMS AND YELL OMG NUBS YOU SUCK AND HIDE BEHIND THE INTERNET SO MY FEELINGS DON'T REALLY GET HURT OMGOMGOMGOMGMOGMOGOMOMGMOGMOMGOMOGOMGMOGMOMGOOMGMOGMOGMOGMOGMOMGOMOGMOGG
<!--QuoteBegin-Uzguz+Sep 5 2004, 05:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Uzguz @ Sep 5 2004, 05:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-SpaceJesus @ Sep 6 2004+ 05:53AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SpaceJesus @ Sep 6 2004 @ 05:53AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It doesn't help that it takes hours upon hours learning to script.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, it literally takes a matter of seconds. Scripting simply isn't complicated. And those who say that researching it is simple are correct. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Have you learned to script *properly* ?
If you took the time to learn about such things as metabind scripts, cycling alias' and mousewheel menu's, you'd realise that it hardly takes seconds to learn hwo to script.
Even taking a total scripting newbie and teaching them how to write a simple pistol script and how it works, would take a hell of a lot longer than you are suggesting.
Researching it may be simple, but it takes a long time to literally write your own, new scripts. I not long ago wrote a metabind script for combat upgrades. That took me 45 minutes to write and bugcheck. Do *not* try to tell me that scripting is easy and fast. You obviously have not tried to script anything at all complicated.
Comments
Like bunnyhopping, the fact that you have to go and research these things is a problem. These little advantages and config tweaking should be able to be found by reading the manual and by experimenting within the game and the game menu. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is no manual.
The game interface is not the focus of the game.
Mayhaps in the future these things will be godly.
But nowadays we have something called the Internet. It's what still distinguishes us from the console hordes. (Mua, ha) I should think interaction with a community online > robotically jumpstarted into a mindless game.
People who are lazy and/or stupid and/or afraid, or simply untalented, all looking for a quick fix, for mindless robotic fun... I really don't know what to say. Laying off the alcohol and a heavy dose of sleep should clear my mind
I'll be back
That pistol script that let u fire on release was very tight. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Although I played very rarely in the past year, due to unfortunate circumstances, I can't help but think that I may have contributed to the problem.
I play on average about once a month. Towards the end of this summer I played a bit more often. Invariably I got accused of pistol scripting. I did not deny it -
Now how is it that any person good with the pistol is right away accused of scripting ? What random newbie is gonna know that you can pistol script in NS ? So the anti scripters have pulled a pretty good PR number on us. It is the expression of the endemic poison in the community. Each one of those whiners are going to go back to their buddies and complain endlessly on how he met a scripter today; together they form a lobby telling the developers how scripting is ruining the game.
Have they solved their problems, their problem of dying and of losing ? I and many others will <i>still</i> pistol whip them when the time comes. It's true, I can still bhop without scripting. I can still leap bite blink swipe without scripting. It won't matter to the average newb whether or not people are scripting because scripting has negligible effect on actual combat. Meanwhile the antiscripters have succeeded in killing off a viable and interesting way to approach NS for no good reason except ego protection. Why should people who are curious and like learning be forced around by lazy egotistical whiners? People are using scripting as a blanket excuse for their poor playing ability. They don't want to think that people they encounter daily can be better than them. Such players are better relegated to godhood status, in their minds - living unobtrusively in the heavens above. They are too lazy and stupid and afraid to learn a bit of scripting themselves. And they have whined loud enough and long enough for the lies to poison the entire community.
Who is really ruining NS? The scripters? Or the newbs ?
Who should be favored; those who are curious, or those who are lazy ? Those who are able, or those who are insecure ?
I could be more eloquent if I close my eyes and lay still sometime.
<!--QuoteBegin-ZiGGY^ @ Sep 6 2004+ 01:40AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ZiGGY^ @ Sep 6 2004 @ 01:40AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->1). Block scripts is an option, atmosphere is an opinion, this is why blockscripts IS an option and not merely 100% active.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The thing is, atmosphere and mp_blockscripts are unrelated. mp_blockscripts isn't an option <i>because</i> atmosphere is optional; the reasoning behind mp_blockscripts pertains to completely different issues. I don't think that atmosphere came into the developers' minds (or the developer's mind, according to the theory) when they conjured and implemented mp_blockscripts. They (he) were (was) more concerned with imaginary unfairness.
<!--QuoteBegin-ZiGGY^ @ Sep 6 2004+ 01:40AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ZiGGY^ @ Sep 6 2004 @ 01:40AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->2). Your solution is flawed, your argument for it non-existent. Because you want it to work doesnt mean it does work.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You, too, had ought to justify what is wrong with the removal of mp_blockscripts. And are you claiming that the entire pro-scripting argument is "non-existent"?
<!--QuoteBegin-ZiGGY^ @ Sep 6 2004+ 01:40AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ZiGGY^ @ Sep 6 2004 @ 01:40AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also I fail to see how there is any "taking sides" in this rather limited but poly-stanced 'argument' of conjecture and irrelevence.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I admit it's a little obscure, but you'll notice that in the top half of his original post (the only place where he really presents any arguments that "pertain" to the issue), all of his criticisms were directed at pro-scripters. To be brutally honest, I think he simply hasn't made up his mind, but if he were to do so, chances are he'd sit in with the anti-scripters.
As for those suggesting various forms of in-game scripting help, I like thes ideas; however, I don't think they should be necessary for scripts to be legal (not that I'm necessarily suggesting that you think so).
<!--QuoteBegin-SpaceJesus @ Sep 6 2004+ 05:53AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SpaceJesus @ Sep 6 2004 @ 05:53AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It doesn't help that it takes hours upon hours learning to script.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, it literally takes a matter of seconds. Scripting simply isn't complicated. And those who say that researching it is simple are correct.
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear @ Sep 6 2004+ 02:29PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Sep 6 2004 @ 02:29PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ok, pistol scripts are the one thing that bugs me with the scripts allowed in B4, 3 jump scripts essentially just make a keyboard key a mousewheel, so I could really care less, but click/release pistol scripts make unloading the pisol twice as leasurely as it is for your average non-scripter, which I do have an issue with since that simply isn't the way the game is meant to be played. There honestly is no other script that isn't increadibly easily replicated with absolutely no scripts at all, and a little bit of skill, I would know, I don't script at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, pistol scripts aren't worth worrying about, because not only is it simpler and more effective to use the mousewheel, but it also allows a finer degree of control; after all, one mightn't always <i>want</i> to fire twice, but with the pistol script, you don't have a choice.
seriously... just what the hell are you digging for? :S
Of course, this _special command being allowed in the game is a bad thing if, as civ said, you can gain massive speed boosts just by having the right scripts. In the next beta, I'd imagine it will be gone from both flavors of scriptblock.
As to the existence of mp_blockscripts, I think it's great. It's always better to get more power into the admins' hands to tweak the game the way they want it, and it's clear that there has been some demand.
For further on (NS on a new engine, perhaps?):
There are some fundamental flaws in the HL engine that (hopefully) aren't duplicated even by current games. Things like running faster when you're pressing into a wall/looking down, or moving faster by jump-crouching and turning at strange angles than simply running forward.
For now, in NS (and CS, and every other HL mod), bunny hopping is too engrained within the playhabits of the hardcore to be removed without tearing the community apart. However, in a future game (NS2? one can hope), we should learn from these mistakes.
I think the solution lies on two fronts. First, tighter code. If a certain class of characters shouldn't ever be moving faster than 50 mph, then make damn sure that there's no combination of strange twists that can ever get them faster than 50 mph. If a weapon shouldn't be able to discharge its entire clip instantly, then make sure there's some sort of hardcapped RoF no matter what button you're jamming on like a hyperactive squirrel.
That's a lot of work, but through redundancy eliminates a lot of the possibilities for unforeseen "features" cropping up, and also prevents people with the right ten-button mouse with macro software from having a hardware advantage.
Secondly, allow scripting only for a very narrow class of cosmetic commands (netgraph, scoreboard, typing out messages - "pwnzed j00", etc). Instead, work very hard to determine what commands should be accessible by every player in order to remain competitive and then make them accessible through the options menu.
If something is tedious enough to do "by hand" that players want to script it, then that thing should either be removed from the game or have a script provided for it by the engine. If people find themselves having to press two buttons at once all the time, think about providing the ability to map two functions to a single button in the options menu. To a degree, people with great manual dexterity should have an advantage, but that advantage should not be nearly insurmountable by someone with a good grasp of the strategy involved who just has trouble pressing the right ten keys at once.
A good example that illustrates this methodology is the now-in-beta Tribes: Vengeance. When the original Tribes game came out, players soon figured out that they could gain lots of extra speed using a maneuver somewhat similar to bunny hopping (in idea, if not in execution), which became known as skiing (you do it down the sides of slopes). This was an unintended feature, but was continued in Tribes 2 because it had become a fundamental part of the game. In T:V, the developers have gone one step further and actually implemented a command for skiing in the options menu. It still takes skill in the strategical sense of knowing ski routes and the best ways to pick up speed, but no longer requires tedious button pressing (it's not as difficult as bunnyhopping IMO, but just using it as an example).
People who are lazy and/or stupid and/or afraid, or simply untalented, all looking for a quick fix, for mindless robotic fun... I really don't know what to say. Laying off the alcohol and a heavy dose of sleep should clear my mind <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The "interactivity" translates to this:
<i>*Newbie creates new thread called "How do I select weapons straight away with mousewheel"*</i>
Newbie: I find it irritating that I can't use nextweapon and prevweapon on the control menu without having to spend a couple of seconds confirming the weapon I want. It doesn't get the weapon out automatically. Is there a way to do this?
Regular 1: Go back to cs, nub.
Regular 2: Use hud_fastswitch 1.
Newbie: Hud_fastswitch 1 doesn't seem to do anything...
Regular 3: OMG, just use the number buttons and SUYF.
Regular 4: Use the search button.
Newbie: Search doesn't seem to work...
Regular 5: FFS, stupid newb, use the one at the bottom.
Regular 6: I reckon this is going to get <span style='color:red'>**locked**</span>.
Regular 7: It will be if you carry on spamming.
Regular 8: Use hud_fastswitch 1.
Moderator: This topic has come up before, and everyone seems to be getting aggressive, so I'm <span style='color:red'>**locking**</span> it.
I don't see the harm in NS being (gasp) <i>user friendly</i>.
Updated tooltips would help while we're at it. I was amused to see that when I started a game of co_, I was told that as a marine, I would have to take orders from a commander. Funny stuff, but it might be a wee bit confusing for a newbie.
The devs want everyone on a level, fair playing field. That meanst that newbies, when they sit down to their first game, are going to be using all the same controls (apart from people who use yghj instead of wasd etc...) as someone who's been playing since day 1. There're two ways to acheive this:
1) Block every single script from the game, be it a helpful, yet not game-altering one, or one that lets you blast a skulks eyeball out from the other side of the map with your back turned to it and your knife out 9bit of an over-exageration there but meh).
2) Compile a list of all the best known and most used scripts, search through them all to decide which ones alter the gameplay adversely/making the game not how the devs wanted it to be played, and then including those scripts into the default NS config.
Which one is easier? And lets face it, if scripts give no descernable advantage in-game, then the only possible things current scripters are losing is that they have to tap the space bar to bunny hop, or they might have to set their net_graph 1 to on permamently.
But like i said, i don't script, i never have, so i don't know the extent to which you can alter the game. but the way i see it, if the scripts don't give you an advantage over a default config player, there's nothing to complain about.
I don't have anything against scripters btw.
Actually, pistol scripts aren't worth worrying about, because not only is it simpler and more effective to use the mousewheel, but it also allows a finer degree of control; after all, one mightn't always <i>want</i> to fire twice, but with the pistol script, you don't have a choice. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Until they invent a mouse with a good three or four mousewheels, I don't think your average player will be doing that a whole lot without using any script of any form. How are they supposed to bunnyhop then, since apparently that is impossible without either a mousewheel or a 3jump script (never mind the fact that I do it regularly).
Actually, pistol scripts aren't worth worrying about, because not only is it simpler and more effective to use the mousewheel, but it also allows a finer degree of control; after all, one mightn't always <i>want</i> to fire twice, but with the pistol script, you don't have a choice.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats also a matter of opinion aswell... with that double shot pistol script there is also a fine degree of control as it is semi automatic with a shot on pressing and releasing.
Its a little different when those game-altering exploits are issues with the engine
and workarounds are quite messy.
<!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->alias +netscores "+showscores;net_graph 3"
alias -netscores "-showscores;net_graph 0"
bind "TAB" "+netscores"<!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
<!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->bind b "buildtoggle"
alias buildtoggle "buildon"
alias buildon "+use; alias buildtoggle buildoff; developer 1; echo Build Toggle On; developer 0"
alias buildoff "-use; alias buildtoggle buildon; developer 1; echo Build Toggle Off; developer 0"<!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
I'll have it ignoring the +showscores & +use commands next build.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->it's kind of weird that _special scripts work on servers without blockscripts now <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
_special was auctually supposed to be removed back a few builds but it wasnt. (You are crazy if you think I took it out on purpose.)
Either way most _special scripts shouldnt work on blockscripts servers if they try to issue any repeating command. Next build the command will be there but you wont be able to alias it over.
Finally, I'm going to add, that mp_blockscripts was <b><span style='color:red'>already in Natural-Selection </span></b>before I ever became a developer, <span style='color:red'><b>I simply fixed it and made it work.</b></span>
Lets not forget that servers can choose to enable, or disable this option.
If you really dont like blockscripts, you could start a little community and start up your own server with blockscripts off. <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
alias skulkinv "skulkleap"
alias skulkleap "slot3; alias skulkinv skulkbite"
alias skulkbite "slot1; alias skulkinv skulkleap"
<!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
wth, I trained my fingers to do this back in 1.04. I can do that without scripts so this is really dissapointing.
Will be fixed in next build.
seriously... just what the hell are you digging for? :S<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you've never heard anyone say that there's no point blocking scripts because 3jump and the pistol script are inferior mousewheel alternatives and the only other "malicious" scripts are useless crap, and that, therefore, mp_blockscripts only affects legitimate scripts? That is the pro-scripting argument against mp_blockscripts, after all, and not only is it really an unfavourable statement about you if, during the course of this "discussion", you've never encountered that argument, but I also thought it obvious that this was my stance.
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Sep 6 2004, 12:56PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Sep 6 2004, 12:56PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Until they invent a mouse with a good three or four mousewheels, I don't think your average player will be doing that a whole lot without using any script of any form. How are they supposed to bunnyhop then, since apparently that is impossible without either a mousewheel or a 3jump script (never mind the fact that I do it regularly).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The simplest solution would be to have it fire one way, and jump the other:
<!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->bind mwheelup "+attack"
bind mwheeldown "+jump"<!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
Swap as preferred.
<!--QuoteBegin--dav+Sep 6 2004, 01:45PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-dav @ Sep 6 2004, 01:45PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Thats also a matter of opinion aswell... with that double shot pistol script there is also a fine degree of control as it is semi automatic with a shot on pressing and releasing.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How is it "fine control" when the second shot happens whether you want it to or not?
<!--QuoteBegin-Freak83+Sep 6 2004, 03:49PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Freak83 @ Sep 6 2004, 03:49PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->wth, I trained my fingers to do this back in 1.04. I can do that without scripts so this is really dissapointing.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That script is basically a substantially less flexible version of lastinv. Why would you ever use it?
<!--QuoteBegin-voogru+Sep 6 2004, 04:04PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (voogru @ Sep 6 2004, 04:04PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Will be fixed in next build.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thank God.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol yea u neva want to fire 2 shots at a target ey
Don't know how mwheel has a fine degree control then...
this is the only game i know of where instead of people practicing and investing time into a game to become better, they **** until the people who are better are brought down to their level. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The argument has been by the pro-scripters that scripts don't give any obvious advantage. So how is removing them bringing "people who are better down to" a lower level?
this is the only game i know of where instead of people practicing and investing time into a game to become better, they **** until the people who are better are brought down to their level. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The argument has been by the pro-scripters that scripts don't give any obvious advantage. So how is removing them bringing "people who are better down to" a lower level? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not that I agree with the argument you're countering, but how is for example forcing you to jump using your numpad 5 key a good gameplay change? And how does it make you more skillful than someone who is allowed to jump with a key of their choice?
The same applys for triplejumping manuevers. I don't see how having a setup that mwheels more easily is in anyway more skillful than having a setup that does not, or not even have a mousewheel. I don't see why these people should be denied access to the functionality of triplejump.
You might as well argue that NS is only fair at the base sensitivity your mouse drivers and HL are installed with, and anything else is an extremely unfair advantage. Yes it certainly is, but its one <i>necessary to make the game-design workable</i> (In the case of this analogie, its a first person shooter - which with locked clumsy controls is just absolutely no fun).
Aside from that, theres the whole rift-issue with mp_blockscripts one disallowing things that are <b>core elements</b> of actual competitive play. How are you going to keep a competitive community alive if the way NS is played there is regarded as illegal everywhere else? It'll remove alot of peoples inclination to start clanning, an experience which I can promise already brings enough trouble.
And I don't know where the misconception comes from that proponents of a 3jump regardless of mp_blockscripts 1, or any other form of simple customizability, have their personal skill at stake. Lets remember 2 things :
1. Clan matches are still mp_blockscripts 0, at least CAL
2. Pubbing isn't a challenge skillwise with or without.
So technically, they're unaffected. The game they enjoy, and the community, however is not. It throws another monkeywrench into the already sputtering inflow of new blood to the clanscene.
And this isn't just idle chatter. Today the clan I'm in shockingly enough 2-0ed someone in a scrim, and some of them gave us some disgruntled ranting about scripts instead of the customary gg. Sure, it didn't exactly hurt our feelings - but they might or might not keep clanning, because they feel they're being bested by "Scripts, the unknown evil!". :/
And allow spamming of +jump, kthx. Maybe up to a maximum of 4 jumps/4 waits (waits being manadatory to be linked with jumps - so you can't get 4 waits into just any script).
Blockscripts does not remove bunnyhoping or fast pistol fire, it just forces you to use the mousewheel.
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lol yea u neva want to fire 2 shots at a target ey
Don't know how mwheel has a fine degree control then... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, you don't always. Sometimes you want to save ammunition, for instance.
And the mousewheel is capable of fine control because the notches can be clearly felt, so it is easy to stop rolling it at the precise moment.
Putting that in my sig cause its true.
Actually, it literally takes a matter of seconds. Scripting simply isn't complicated. And those who say that researching it is simple are correct.
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Have you learned to script *properly* ?
If you took the time to learn about such things as metabind scripts, cycling alias' and mousewheel menu's, you'd realise that it hardly takes seconds to learn hwo to script.
Even taking a total scripting newbie and teaching them how to write a simple pistol script and how it works, would take a hell of a lot longer than you are suggesting.
Researching it may be simple, but it takes a long time to literally write your own, new scripts. I not long ago wrote a metabind script for combat upgrades. That took me 45 minutes to write and bugcheck. Do *not* try to tell me that scripting is easy and fast. You obviously have not tried to script anything at all complicated.