<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Necro, stop pretending that pub admins KNOW what scripts are/do, THEY DONT, AND WE HAVE PROOF. Open your eyes and stop using that argument over and over. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have proof pub admins KNOW what scripts are/do. Durr. The key point here is you have some admins who don't know, and I have some who do. I'm sure you know several admins who do know. So its a bit of a silly debate, because it boils down to fractions. Meh. I'm always going to say more admins know than don't, and you're going to say the opposite. So I left it at that. I didn't know you wanted a personalised reply saying "we have different interpretations of the numbers."
On a related note, if most don't know then it makes it pretty silly if you were the type of person who enters a server, ignores the rule list, tells everyone their rules are silly, and acts like a general tool. If admins need to know these things so badly, then chances are you'd get a better response by asking them for an IM conversation or something. At least then if it devolves to a dumb rant then only one person has to listen to it.
Its all about respect.
Respect the other players level of skill, taking a slack attitude to someone playing their best is a surefire way to annoy people and get banned.
Respect the admin - his rules may be dumb but he pays for the server and needs no reason to ban you. Be polite and maybe he'll listen. Always remember than the bulk of admins will reply with "Its easier to just..." because noone wants to spend their life coping with stupidity.
Respect the fact that sometimes you'll have to spend hard earned cash to play a game the way YOU want. Don't disrespect the other people who had to do the same thing.
Mutual respect, and higher tier servers (with good communities) would go a long way to helping. For a while iirc everyone was saying "go to Hamptons" for higher tier play. Where can you tell people to go now? Sounds like a vacuum to me, a niche which could be filled by the right admin with the right server. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> So why don't we try taking a "census" to see who is right?
I'll wager alot that I am right. Those fractions do matter and are the whole point to this thread. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The language of your originating post implies that <i>all</i> pub admins are ignorant.
I happen to be a lead voogru admin, and while I barely play this game anymore, when I did, I really didn't care too much about scripting. I personally found scripting uneccessary (I've been playing games since before Quake engine, since before the Quake days), but I really never cared if others used it.
I haven't read through all of this thread, but here's my 2 cents. I think that some of the "veterans" of this game are the ones killing the clan scene. I've been a part of many other game communites, and many other games, and never have I seen whining of this magnitude over something that can best be classified as trivial. I'm sorry, but scripts are NOT that big of a deal, and you'll never convince me otherwise. The crying that takes place here and everywhere else over this stupid concept almost makes me happy that this once enjoyable game is reaching it's rapid demise. All everyone had to do is adapt, in a similar fashion that you would in any other game, but no, let's get the tears flowing instead.
If there wasn't such outcry this wouldn't even be an issue, so in the end, I suppose that you could say that those who were constantly whining about scripts, were the cause of NS' death, and not every single pub player and admin in existance, like the first post of this thread seems to suggest.
No one has ever shown any good reason as to why scripts are so necessary in the first place. THe argument for them is childish and not well thought out at all. Clanners are killing the scene because 90% of the clan scene is full of elitest insiders who think competitve NS is the most important issue facing the world today, that's why, not because people on pubs are too close-minded. The same argument you made in the first post in this thread could be the con-argument by replacing 'pub' or 'pubbers' with 'clan' or 'clanners'. You fail to realize nadagast that 99% of the clan community in NS are sheep. They like what other people like, they make fun of people others make fun of, and with you being as highly regaurded as you are people kiss your **** and you don't see what other people see. Their only allegience is to the guy who gets the most kills, there is no loyalty which leads me to believe there is no maturity.
You have to be objective to the fact that a good amount of 'clanners' in the past have been petty children when it comes to anything related to teamwork. This can be shown by the large turnover throughout all clans.
But as for the whole scripting thing, you'll never be able to form a proper argument as to why they should be allowed, because there isn't one. My favorite retort being, "I can do it anyway it just makes it easier!"
<!--QuoteBegin-Tekish+Nov 15 2004, 12:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tekish @ Nov 15 2004, 12:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Generalization is your enemy. Seriously.
I happen to be a lead voogru admin, and while I barely play this game anymore, when I did, I really didn't care too much about scripting. I personally found scripting uneccessary (I've been playing games since before Quake engine, since before the Quake days), but I really never cared if others used it.
I haven't read through all of this thread, but here's my 2 cents. I think that some of the "veterans" of this game are the ones killing the clan scene. I've been a part of many other game communites, and many other games, and never have I seen whining of this magnitude over something that can best be classified as trivial. I'm sorry, but scripts are NOT that big of a deal, and you'll never convince me otherwise. The crying that takes place here and everywhere else over this stupid concept almost makes me happy that this once enjoyable game is reaching it's rapid demise. All everyone had to do is adapt, in a similar fashion that you would in any other game, but no, let's get the tears flowing instead.
If there wasn't such outcry this wouldn't even be an issue, so in the end, I suppose that you could say that those who were constantly whining about scripts, were the cause of NS' death, and not every single pub player and admin in existance, like the first post of this thread seems to suggest. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No one has ever shown any good reason as to why scripts are so necessary in the first place. THe argument for them is childish and not well thought out at all. Clanners are killing the scene because 90% of the clan scene is full of elitest insiders who think competitve NS is the most important issue facing the world today, that's why, not because people on pubs are too close-minded. The same argument you made in the first post in this thread could be the con-argument by replacing 'pub' or 'pubbers' with 'clan' or 'clanners'. You fail to realize nadagast that 99% of the clan community in NS are sheep. They like what other people like, they make fun of people others make fun of, and with you being as highly regaurded as you are people kiss your **** and you don't see what other people see. Their only allegience is to the guy who gets the most kills, there is no loyalty which leads me to believe there is no maturity.
You have to be objective to the fact that a good amount of 'clanners' in the past have been petty children when it comes to anything related to teamwork. This can be shown by the large turnover throughout all clans.
But as for the whole scripting thing, you'll never be able to form a proper argument as to why they should be allowed, because there isn't one. My favorite retort being, "I can do it anyway it just makes it easier!"<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Both of your statements are laughable.
Let me get this straight:
By PLAYING the game, we are KILLING it.
Good luck and have fun where ever you go! (not like anyone in their right mind cares)
NSGuides Mission Statement: NSGuides is a group of dedicated individuals working together to help the community grow through several means. These individuals will be dedicated to helping new players learn how to play by the way of an in-depth manual on their website, teaching them while playing in a public NS server, and also through free lessons, introducing new players to important aspects of the game. By helping players who are new to Natural Selection, we will be able to help them climb the steep learning curve, which will, in turn, keep them interested in the game and in turn help the community grow.
After reading through this several times, please show me where it says, "bail Forlorn out of a ban" Or for that matter ANYTHING about telling pubbers about how good or bad a player is. well you were probably thinking the same thing I was, it's not in there. The reason is because that IS NOT what the NSGuides do. They look out for players who have questions, and help people become better NS players. and again if you read my post, good things come to those who ASK!.
Second,
The NSGuides ARE supposed to educate, but how does Jojoshua know you are not cheating? He can have a good idea, but the only person(s) that know for sure are you, and whoever can see your monitor, I somehow doubt that you were both in the same room. And even at that just because you HATE the PT's and the NSGuides doesn't mean they are as inept as you make them out to be. Just to clairify this is NOT a hackusation, I said before I don't think you cheat at all, BUT I couldn't testify in court that you don't I can trust my better judgement. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First, bringing people together by indifference does not sound like a good NSGuide to me.
Second, I've played NS at LANs before. You think I was there in the CPL using my wallhax and aimbots? If you really wanna know if I'm cheating, why don't you go ask Flayra?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The key point here is you have some admins who don't know, and I have some who do. I'm sure you know several admins who do know. So its a bit of a silly debate, because it boils down to fractions.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The key point here is that most admins do not know. It's not a silly debate, it's a big issue when the clan scene is killed by voluntary ignorance coming from the highest order.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Its all about respect.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll tell you right now that there is no respect from most of the royalty of NS towards the clanners, nor have I ever seen an attempt by them to do so.
The clanners (through a long time of abuse) also lose their respect when people who don't even play, understand, or help the game's progress ban them from forum boards, servers, and mIRC channels.
wrap me up in a dream with you! <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Nov 15 2004, 01:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Nov 15 2004, 01:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Both of your statements are laughable.
Let me get this straight:
By PLAYING the game, we are KILLING it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Uh, what? I said whining was the problem, not playing. If these words somehow share a similar meaning that I don't know about, please enlighten me.
Seems like this thread has been dragged towards scripting once more, and again it seems like the people who seem to think nothing is wrong haven't read the important posts on these threads. It's already been mentioned that scripting is a side issue, but most people, including those who just posted doesn't seem to read what is the key issue, instead of focusing on the parts that they can easily talk about and push aside, as if just focusing on scripts will make the main issue moot. If this is how the community chooses to ignore the problem that the NS Community faces today, then I give up. You can't help a community that refuses to read the important parts of a very important thread, they've already filtered out what they want to read and reply to instead of using their mind to respond to what's important.
I am new to this discussion and I am going to honor this thread by adding to the original topic of this thread.
I have been writing scripts for quake engine games ever since the beginning of Quake itself. I've had a role to play, if there was such a thing noted, among the "scripting community" for HL, mostly with Counter-Script and CS Forums since CS is more popular(You follow the community), but writing aliases for CS is the same for any other mod.
I will say the use of scripts and aliases is a double edged sword. At one side they are utilitarian, and rarely effect how you play the game directly. There are also scripts that help you to perform functions that are still perfectly "okay". Looking at NS specifically, you have scripts that can pick and choose upgrade chambers and upgrades themselves. Instead of binding many many keys to each function, the option without using aliases, then there could be lots of clutter and confusion, but since we have aliases we can take all those key binds and consolidate them in to only 3 or 4 keys and not deal with using up keyboard space or confusion. Even when you can drop two upgrade chambers at the same time with a script you can do the Exact same thing with two binds, or even one single bind. So preventing ALL scripts would prevent people from using very legitimite scripts like mentioned above.
Now on the other side of the blade you have real exploits. Forgotton commands and broken commands that would allow the player to do things you couldn't manually do in the game. Take for instance bunny hopping in CS. This example is easy enough to follow. Bunny hopping is not a part of CS anymore. You can't perform this on your own, because the game itself doesn't allow you to do it, but with an alias or script to change the enviroment you would be doing something your NOT supposed to do in CS. Like CS it goes for every game. Binding attack to your mousewheel a script? No.
Instead of preventing all scripts there needs to be a measure to identify what functions scripts and aliases provide that are illegal and block their uses. Either the game developers can change parts of the game to stop the use of those specific actions, or have some sort of third party plugin to prevent the actions of an alleged illegal script or alias.
I believe, for the most part, people just don't know where to draw the line because they don't know enough about alias writing in the first place or have actually seen a real exploit in action.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Necro, stop pretending that pub admins KNOW what scripts are/do, THEY DONT, AND WE HAVE PROOF. Open your eyes and stop using that argument over and over. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have proof pub admins KNOW what scripts are/do. Durr. The key point here is you have some admins who don't know, and I have some who do. I'm sure you know several admins who do know. So its a bit of a silly debate, because it boils down to fractions. Meh. I'm always going to say more admins know than don't, and you're going to say the opposite. So I left it at that. I didn't know you wanted a personalised reply saying "we have different interpretations of the numbers."
On a related note, if most don't know then it makes it pretty silly if you were the type of person who enters a server, ignores the rule list, tells everyone their rules are silly, and acts like a general tool. If admins need to know these things so badly, then chances are you'd get a better response by asking them for an IM conversation or something. At least then if it devolves to a dumb rant then only one person has to listen to it.
Its all about respect.
Respect the other players level of skill, taking a slack attitude to someone playing their best is a surefire way to annoy people and get banned.
Respect the admin - his rules may be dumb but he pays for the server and needs no reason to ban you. Be polite and maybe he'll listen. Always remember than the bulk of admins will reply with "Its easier to just..." because noone wants to spend their life coping with stupidity.
Respect the fact that sometimes you'll have to spend hard earned cash to play a game the way YOU want. Don't disrespect the other people who had to do the same thing.
Mutual respect, and higher tier servers (with good communities) would go a long way to helping. For a while iirc everyone was saying "go to Hamptons" for higher tier play. Where can you tell people to go now? Sounds like a vacuum to me, a niche which could be filled by the right admin with the right server. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> So why don't we try taking a "census" to see who is right?
I'll wager alot that I am right. Those fractions do matter and are the whole point to this thread. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The language of your originating post implies that <i>all</i> pub admins are ignorant. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That proves what exactly?
The fact is most still DONT know what they do, no matter what you decide to post in order to argue against me isin't going to change that.
<!--QuoteBegin-Emanon+Nov 15 2004, 02:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Emanon @ Nov 15 2004, 02:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I just see a lack of honor in NS and pretty much America as a whole, for the most part its all about #1.
Its very rare that I come across a player in NS that has honor. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> define what you mean by honor.
<!--QuoteBegin-Gecko God Of DOOOM+Nov 15 2004, 03:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gecko God Of DOOOM @ Nov 15 2004, 03:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Emanon+Nov 15 2004, 02:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Emanon @ Nov 15 2004, 02:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I just see a lack of honor in NS and pretty much America as a whole, for the most part its all about #1.
Its very rare that I come across a player in NS that has honor. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> define what you mean by honor. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Honor isn't easily explainable and if you ask that question then you lack it.
im asking you to explain YOUR definaiton of honor in the way that YOU used it. I understand what honor is. and I know everyone adears to diffrent systems of "honor" so I ask agian. please define what you mean. so I dont have to ask a 3rd time. And please do not personaly attack me, or americans again.
<!--QuoteBegin-Swift Idiot+Nov 15 2004, 03:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swift Idiot @ Nov 15 2004, 03:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Because it's really about bad American values like being #1. Right <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> its probably bushs fault <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->((((
I happen to be a lead voogru admin, and while I barely play this game anymore, when I did, I really didn't care too much about scripting. I personally found scripting uneccessary (I've been playing games since before Quake engine, since before the Quake days), but I really never cared if others used it.
I haven't read through all of this thread, but here's my 2 cents. I think that some of the "veterans" of this game are the ones killing the clan scene. I've been a part of many other game communites, and many other games, and never have I seen whining of this magnitude over something that can best be classified as trivial. I'm sorry, but scripts are NOT that big of a deal, and you'll never convince me otherwise. The crying that takes place here and everywhere else over this stupid concept almost makes me happy that this once enjoyable game is reaching it's rapid demise. All everyone had to do is adapt, in a similar fashion that you would in any other game, but no, let's get the tears flowing instead.
If there wasn't such outcry this wouldn't even be an issue, so in the end, I suppose that you could say that those who were constantly whining about scripts, were the cause of NS' death, and not every single pub player and admin in existance, like the first post of this thread seems to suggest. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No one has ever shown any good reason as to why scripts are so necessary in the first place. THe argument for them is childish and not well thought out at all. Clanners are killing the scene because 90% of the clan scene is full of elitest insiders who think competitve NS is the most important issue facing the world today, that's why, not because people on pubs are too close-minded. The same argument you made in the first post in this thread could be the con-argument by replacing 'pub' or 'pubbers' with 'clan' or 'clanners'. You fail to realize nadagast that 99% of the clan community in NS are sheep. They like what other people like, they make fun of people others make fun of, and with you being as highly regaurded as you are people kiss your **** and you don't see what other people see. Their only allegience is to the guy who gets the most kills, there is no loyalty which leads me to believe there is no maturity.
You have to be objective to the fact that a good amount of 'clanners' in the past have been petty children when it comes to anything related to teamwork. This can be shown by the large turnover throughout all clans.
But as for the whole scripting thing, you'll never be able to form a proper argument as to why they should be allowed, because there isn't one. My favorite retort being, "I can do it anyway it just makes it easier!"<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Both of your statements are laughable.
Let me get this straight:
By PLAYING the game, we are KILLING it.
Good luck and have fun where ever you go! (not like anyone in their right mind cares)
NSGuides Mission Statement: NSGuides is a group of dedicated individuals working together to help the community grow through several means. These individuals will be dedicated to helping new players learn how to play by the way of an in-depth manual on their website, teaching them while playing in a public NS server, and also through free lessons, introducing new players to important aspects of the game. By helping players who are new to Natural Selection, we will be able to help them climb the steep learning curve, which will, in turn, keep them interested in the game and in turn help the community grow.
After reading through this several times, please show me where it says, "bail Forlorn out of a ban" Or for that matter ANYTHING about telling pubbers about how good or bad a player is. well you were probably thinking the same thing I was, it's not in there. The reason is because that IS NOT what the NSGuides do. They look out for players who have questions, and help people become better NS players. and again if you read my post, good things come to those who ASK!.
Second,
The NSGuides ARE supposed to educate, but how does Jojoshua know you are not cheating? He can have a good idea, but the only person(s) that know for sure are you, and whoever can see your monitor, I somehow doubt that you were both in the same room. And even at that just because you HATE the PT's and the NSGuides doesn't mean they are as inept as you make them out to be. Just to clairify this is NOT a hackusation, I said before I don't think you cheat at all, BUT I couldn't testify in court that you don't I can trust my better judgement. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First, bringing people together by indifference does not sound like a good NSGuide to me.
Second, I've played NS at LANs before. You think I was there in the CPL using my wallhax and aimbots? If you really wanna know if I'm cheating, why don't you go ask Flayra?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The key point here is you have some admins who don't know, and I have some who do. I'm sure you know several admins who do know. So its a bit of a silly debate, because it boils down to fractions.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The key point here is that most admins do not know. It's not a silly debate, it's a big issue when the clan scene is killed by voluntary ignorance coming from the highest order.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Its all about respect.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll tell you right now that there is no respect from most of the royalty of NS towards the clanners, nor have I ever seen an attempt by them to do so.
The clanners (through a long time of abuse) also lose their respect when people who don't even play, understand, or help the game's progress ban them from forum boards, servers, and mIRC channels. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Last dinosaur. I know people who would pay good money to find out what happens in your brain from the time you read something someone has said and when you actually form some type of response. No one said playing a game was killing it, I said people who are fickle and popmous are ruining the game. If you can somehow find an instance of wording that would lead you to believe either me or Terkish meant that playing the game was killing it then you should point it out immedietly because it might help us eliminate whatever type of communication dificency you seem to be suffering from.
<!--QuoteBegin-Emanon+Nov 15 2004, 04:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Emanon @ Nov 15 2004, 04:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Gecko God Of DOOOM+Nov 15 2004, 03:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gecko God Of DOOOM @ Nov 15 2004, 03:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Emanon+Nov 15 2004, 02:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Emanon @ Nov 15 2004, 02:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I just see a lack of honor in NS and pretty much America as a whole, for the most part its all about #1.
Its very rare that I come across a player in NS that has honor. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> define what you mean by honor. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Honor isn't easily explainable and if you ask that question then you lack it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> On the flip side, attacking someone who hasn't done anything to you would indicate a lack of honor. But that's just my definition <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I happen to be a lead voogru admin, and while I barely play this game anymore, when I did, I really didn't care too much about scripting. I personally found scripting uneccessary (I've been playing games since before Quake engine, since before the Quake days), but I really never cared if others used it.
I haven't read through all of this thread, but here's my 2 cents. I think that some of the "veterans" of this game are the ones killing the clan scene. I've been a part of many other game communites, and many other games, and never have I seen whining of this magnitude over something that can best be classified as trivial. I'm sorry, but scripts are NOT that big of a deal, and you'll never convince me otherwise. The crying that takes place here and everywhere else over this stupid concept almost makes me happy that this once enjoyable game is reaching it's rapid demise. All everyone had to do is adapt, in a similar fashion that you would in any other game, but no, let's get the tears flowing instead.
If there wasn't such outcry this wouldn't even be an issue, so in the end, I suppose that you could say that those who were constantly whining about scripts, were the cause of NS' death, and not every single pub player and admin in existance, like the first post of this thread seems to suggest. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No one has ever shown any good reason as to why scripts are so necessary in the first place. THe argument for them is childish and not well thought out at all. Clanners are killing the scene because 90% of the clan scene is full of elitest insiders who think competitve NS is the most important issue facing the world today, that's why, not because people on pubs are too close-minded. The same argument you made in the first post in this thread could be the con-argument by replacing 'pub' or 'pubbers' with 'clan' or 'clanners'. You fail to realize nadagast that 99% of the clan community in NS are sheep. They like what other people like, they make fun of people others make fun of, and with you being as highly regaurded as you are people kiss your **** and you don't see what other people see. Their only allegience is to the guy who gets the most kills, there is no loyalty which leads me to believe there is no maturity.
You have to be objective to the fact that a good amount of 'clanners' in the past have been petty children when it comes to anything related to teamwork. This can be shown by the large turnover throughout all clans.
But as for the whole scripting thing, you'll never be able to form a proper argument as to why they should be allowed, because there isn't one. My favorite retort being, "I can do it anyway it just makes it easier!"<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Both of your statements are laughable.
Let me get this straight:
By PLAYING the game, we are KILLING it.
Good luck and have fun where ever you go! (not like anyone in their right mind cares)
NSGuides Mission Statement: NSGuides is a group of dedicated individuals working together to help the community grow through several means. These individuals will be dedicated to helping new players learn how to play by the way of an in-depth manual on their website, teaching them while playing in a public NS server, and also through free lessons, introducing new players to important aspects of the game. By helping players who are new to Natural Selection, we will be able to help them climb the steep learning curve, which will, in turn, keep them interested in the game and in turn help the community grow.
After reading through this several times, please show me where it says, "bail Forlorn out of a ban" Or for that matter ANYTHING about telling pubbers about how good or bad a player is. well you were probably thinking the same thing I was, it's not in there. The reason is because that IS NOT what the NSGuides do. They look out for players who have questions, and help people become better NS players. and again if you read my post, good things come to those who ASK!.
Second,
The NSGuides ARE supposed to educate, but how does Jojoshua know you are not cheating? He can have a good idea, but the only person(s) that know for sure are you, and whoever can see your monitor, I somehow doubt that you were both in the same room. And even at that just because you HATE the PT's and the NSGuides doesn't mean they are as inept as you make them out to be. Just to clairify this is NOT a hackusation, I said before I don't think you cheat at all, BUT I couldn't testify in court that you don't I can trust my better judgement. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First, bringing people together by indifference does not sound like a good NSGuide to me.
Second, I've played NS at LANs before. You think I was there in the CPL using my wallhax and aimbots? If you really wanna know if I'm cheating, why don't you go ask Flayra?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The key point here is you have some admins who don't know, and I have some who do. I'm sure you know several admins who do know. So its a bit of a silly debate, because it boils down to fractions.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The key point here is that most admins do not know. It's not a silly debate, it's a big issue when the clan scene is killed by voluntary ignorance coming from the highest order.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Its all about respect.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll tell you right now that there is no respect from most of the royalty of NS towards the clanners, nor have I ever seen an attempt by them to do so.
The clanners (through a long time of abuse) also lose their respect when people who don't even play, understand, or help the game's progress ban them from forum boards, servers, and mIRC channels. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Last dinosaur. I know people who would pay good money to find out what happens in your brain from the time you read something someone has said and when you actually form some type of response. No one said playing a game was killing it, I said people who are fickle and popmous are ruining the game. If you can somehow find an instance of wording that would lead you to believe either me or Terkish meant that playing the game was killing it then you should point it out immedietly because it might help us eliminate whatever type of communication dificency you seem to be suffering from. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Sure thing, since you can't read what you write I'll spell it out for you:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->full of elitest insiders who think competitve NS is the most important issue facing the world today, that's why, not because people on pubs are too close-minded. The same argument you made in the first post in this thread could be the con-argument by replacing 'pub' or 'pubbers' with 'clan' or 'clanners'.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My original argument was that ignorant pub admins kill the game
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think that some of the "veterans" of this game are the ones killing the clan scene.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is just blantant
Now that you understand what you and Terkish wrote, I'll just go back to where I left off:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Both of your statements are laughable.
Let me get this straight:
By PLAYING the game, we are KILLING it.
Good luck and have fun where ever you go! (not like anyone in their right mind cares) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-MrRadicalEd+Nov 15 2004, 04:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrRadicalEd @ Nov 15 2004, 04:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yeah I was about to ask what Gecko already did..
<i>Emanon</i>, You mention honor, but you clearly have your own interpretation of "honor"
so what do you mean by "honor"? What is your interpretation of "honor" when you say lack of "honor" <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> People take things so personally like I'm singling them out.
You can be #1 with honor and that is the greatest thing. I didnt say america lacked it, I said some/most americans. Which cannot be denyed.
I have no interpretation other than what is written: <a href='http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=honor' target='_blank'>HONOR</a>
<!--QuoteBegin-Emanon+Nov 15 2004, 08:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Emanon @ Nov 15 2004, 08:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-MrRadicalEd+Nov 15 2004, 04:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrRadicalEd @ Nov 15 2004, 04:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yeah I was about to ask what Gecko already did..
<i>Emanon</i>, You mention honor, but you clearly have your own interpretation of "honor"
so what do you mean by "honor"? What is your interpretation of "honor" when you say lack of "honor" <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> People take things so personally like I'm singling them out. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> *cough*<!--QuoteBegin-emanon+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (emanon)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Honor isn't easily explainable and if you ask that question then you lack it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->*cough*
I'd call that singling him out personally. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You can be #1 with honor and that is the greatest thing. I didnt say america lacked it, I said some/most americans. Which cannot be denyed. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Let's see....I'm sure some Brits lack "honor". And some Australians. And French. And German, Italian, Russian, Chinese, Indonesian, Polynesian, Cuban, Haitian, Guatemalan, Sudanese, Egyptian, Iranian, Lebanese, Chech, Mongolians, South Africans, etc, etc, bloody etc!
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I have no interpretation other than what is written: <a href='http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=honor' target='_blank'>HONOR</a>
Pay close attention to 2 and 8a.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your honor and your code of conduct is what you make of it; citing from a dictionary is rather sad, actually. Notice how many definitions of "honor" there are. Which one means the most to you, and more importantly, which one do you feel some Americans lack. More than the rest of the world, I mean.
my beef is all these ****king forum **** who think they know what they are talking about who have like 5000+ posts and don't even play the game yet seem to think they know what the **** balanced is. competitive play vs public play is two tottaly diffirent things.
Calm down, have some dip. Maybe take in some air, this is a discussion, so please find a more creative way to tell people the way it is, other than just cussing(which gets filtered). Photek you are a clanner, in a clan that is in the CAL delta finals, rather than just saying that the games are different, tell us what can be done to fix it! Getting mad and making a post like the one above doesn't accomplish much. help us out!!!!
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Nov 15 2004, 08:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Nov 15 2004, 08:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think that some of the "veterans" of this game are the ones killing the clan scene.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is just blantant
Now that you understand what you and Terkish wrote, I'll just go back to where I left off:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Both of your statements are laughable.
Let me get this straight:
By PLAYING the game, we are KILLING it.
Good luck and have fun where ever you go! (not like anyone in their right mind cares) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Just... wow. Nice job taking one of my sentences completely out of context, changing the meaning entirely, and butchering it to serve as an example of a statement that makes no sense in the first place.
I think it's fairly clear where this will go from here, so instead, I think I will go have an insightful conversation with Mr. Wall over there. Somehow, I imagine his responses couldn't possibly be any worse than what I have just read from you.
By the way, you should take another look at my name...
<!--QuoteBegin-maniacripper+Nov 16 2004, 09:16 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (maniacripper @ Nov 16 2004, 09:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No kidding, Forlorn, you should seriously look for a job with FOxnews, they're always looking for people like you. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> please elaborate, many of us are not american and thus dont really know any details about "foxnews" or how it fits in this discussion.
<!--QuoteBegin-Tekish+Nov 16 2004, 01:50 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tekish @ Nov 16 2004, 01:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Nov 15 2004, 08:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Nov 15 2004, 08:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think that some of the "veterans" of this game are the ones killing the clan scene.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is just blantant
Now that you understand what you and Terkish wrote, I'll just go back to where I left off:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Both of your statements are laughable.
Let me get this straight:
By PLAYING the game, we are KILLING it.
Good luck and have fun where ever you go! (not like anyone in their right mind cares) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Just... wow. Nice job taking one of my sentences completely out of context, changing the meaning entirely, and butchering it to serve as an example of a statement that makes no sense in the first place.
I think it's fairly clear where this will go from here, so instead, I think I will go have an insightful conversation with Mr. Wall over there. Somehow, I imagine his responses couldn't possibly be any worse than what I have just read from you.
By the way, you should take another look at my name... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No kidding, Forlorn, you should seriously look for a job with FOxnews, they're always looking for people like you.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And you guys should join a debate team (or comedy central for your super witty comments!~), learn how to argue instead of trying to insult the other posters (which I may add you failed miserably). Ad homenien attacks always make you look weak.
Oh and spelling your name wrong was a typo, it was not indictive that I do not read posts, you should (again) try reading what you write before others start quoting them.
<!--QuoteBegin-exoity+Nov 15 2004, 07:02 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (exoity @ Nov 15 2004, 07:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-[FFT+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([FFT)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->SpaceMoogle5,Nov 15 2004, 03:07 AM] <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Nov 13 2004, 06:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Nov 13 2004, 06:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also please point to me why a PT on that server (Jojoshua and NSGuide leader) did nothing to educate anyone<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The NSGuides program has really fell down the gutter imo. To see what NSLearn as done and what they are going to do makes NSGuides look really bad. Not to mention NSLearn started after NSGuides and the guides still have no released a thing. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Unfortunately I haven't had much time to be around, but when I am back to active status I plan on taking a vote from my staff members to see if we should fire off an email to ask to become an official sponsored program.
It would be really great if we took experience of the guys from NSlearn, and mix that with the official dev support. I have no doubt in my mind make the program explode (in a good way).
Comments
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Necro, stop pretending that pub admins KNOW what scripts are/do, THEY DONT, AND WE HAVE PROOF. Open your eyes and stop using that argument over and over.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have proof pub admins KNOW what scripts are/do. Durr. The key point here is you have some admins who don't know, and I have some who do. I'm sure you know several admins who do know. So its a bit of a silly debate, because it boils down to fractions. Meh. I'm always going to say more admins know than don't, and you're going to say the opposite. So I left it at that. I didn't know you wanted a personalised reply saying "we have different interpretations of the numbers."
On a related note, if most don't know then it makes it pretty silly if you were the type of person who enters a server, ignores the rule list, tells everyone their rules are silly, and acts like a general tool. If admins need to know these things so badly, then chances are you'd get a better response by asking them for an IM conversation or something. At least then if it devolves to a dumb rant then only one person has to listen to it.
Its all about respect.
Respect the other players level of skill, taking a slack attitude to someone playing their best is a surefire way to annoy people and get banned.
Respect the admin - his rules may be dumb but he pays for the server and needs no reason to ban you. Be polite and maybe he'll listen. Always remember than the bulk of admins will reply with "Its easier to just..." because noone wants to spend their life coping with stupidity.
Respect the fact that sometimes you'll have to spend hard earned cash to play a game the way YOU want. Don't disrespect the other people who had to do the same thing.
Mutual respect, and higher tier servers (with good communities) would go a long way to helping. For a while iirc everyone was saying "go to Hamptons" for higher tier play. Where can you tell people to go now? Sounds like a vacuum to me, a niche which could be filled by the right admin with the right server. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So why don't we try taking a "census" to see who is right?
I'll wager alot that I am right. Those fractions do matter and are the whole point to this thread. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The language of your originating post implies that <i>all</i> pub admins are ignorant.
I happen to be a lead voogru admin, and while I barely play this game anymore, when I did, I really didn't care too much about scripting. I personally found scripting uneccessary (I've been playing games since before Quake engine, since before the Quake days), but I really never cared if others used it.
I haven't read through all of this thread, but here's my 2 cents. I think that some of the "veterans" of this game are the ones killing the clan scene. I've been a part of many other game communites, and many other games, and never have I seen whining of this magnitude over something that can best be classified as trivial. I'm sorry, but scripts are NOT that big of a deal, and you'll never convince me otherwise. The crying that takes place here and everywhere else over this stupid concept almost makes me happy that this once enjoyable game is reaching it's rapid demise. All everyone had to do is adapt, in a similar fashion that you would in any other game, but no, let's get the tears flowing instead.
If there wasn't such outcry this wouldn't even be an issue, so in the end, I suppose that you could say that those who were constantly whining about scripts, were the cause of NS' death, and not every single pub player and admin in existance, like the first post of this thread seems to suggest.
You have to be objective to the fact that a good amount of 'clanners' in the past have been petty children when it comes to anything related to teamwork. This can be shown by the large turnover throughout all clans.
But as for the whole scripting thing, you'll never be able to form a proper argument as to why they should be allowed, because there isn't one. My favorite retort being, "I can do it anyway it just makes it easier!"
I happen to be a lead voogru admin, and while I barely play this game anymore, when I did, I really didn't care too much about scripting. I personally found scripting uneccessary (I've been playing games since before Quake engine, since before the Quake days), but I really never cared if others used it.
I haven't read through all of this thread, but here's my 2 cents. I think that some of the "veterans" of this game are the ones killing the clan scene. I've been a part of many other game communites, and many other games, and never have I seen whining of this magnitude over something that can best be classified as trivial. I'm sorry, but scripts are NOT that big of a deal, and you'll never convince me otherwise. The crying that takes place here and everywhere else over this stupid concept almost makes me happy that this once enjoyable game is reaching it's rapid demise. All everyone had to do is adapt, in a similar fashion that you would in any other game, but no, let's get the tears flowing instead.
If there wasn't such outcry this wouldn't even be an issue, so in the end, I suppose that you could say that those who were constantly whining about scripts, were the cause of NS' death, and not every single pub player and admin in existance, like the first post of this thread seems to suggest. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No one has ever shown any good reason as to why scripts are so necessary in the first place. THe argument for them is childish and not well thought out at all. Clanners are killing the scene because 90% of the clan scene is full of elitest insiders who think competitve NS is the most important issue facing the world today, that's why, not because people on pubs are too close-minded. The same argument you made in the first post in this thread could be the con-argument by replacing 'pub' or 'pubbers' with 'clan' or 'clanners'. You fail to realize nadagast that 99% of the clan community in NS are sheep. They like what other people like, they make fun of people others make fun of, and with you being as highly regaurded as you are people kiss your **** and you don't see what other people see. Their only allegience is to the guy who gets the most kills, there is no loyalty which leads me to believe there is no maturity.
You have to be objective to the fact that a good amount of 'clanners' in the past have been petty children when it comes to anything related to teamwork. This can be shown by the large turnover throughout all clans.
But as for the whole scripting thing, you'll never be able to form a proper argument as to why they should be allowed, because there isn't one. My favorite retort being, "I can do it anyway it just makes it easier!"<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Both of your statements are laughable.
Let me get this straight:
By PLAYING the game, we are KILLING it.
Good luck and have fun where ever you go! (not like anyone in their right mind cares)
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Firstly,
NSGuides Mission Statement:
NSGuides is a group of dedicated individuals working together to help the community grow through several means. These individuals will be dedicated to helping new players learn how to play by the way of an in-depth manual on their website, teaching them while playing in a public NS server, and also through free lessons, introducing new players to important aspects of the game. By helping players who are new to Natural Selection, we will be able to help them climb the steep learning curve, which will, in turn, keep them interested in the game and in turn help the community grow.
After reading through this several times, please show me where it says, "bail Forlorn out of a ban" Or for that matter ANYTHING about telling pubbers about how good or bad a player is. well you were probably thinking the same thing I was, it's not in there. The reason is because that IS NOT what the NSGuides do. They look out for players who have questions, and help people become better NS players. and again if you read my post, good things come to those who ASK!.
Second,
The NSGuides ARE supposed to educate, but how does Jojoshua know you are not cheating? He can have a good idea, but the only person(s) that know for sure are you, and whoever can see your monitor, I somehow doubt that you were both in the same room. And even at that just because you HATE the PT's and the NSGuides doesn't mean they are as inept as you make them out to be. Just to clairify this is NOT a hackusation, I said before I don't think you cheat at all, BUT I couldn't testify in court that you don't I can trust my better judgement.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First, bringing people together by indifference does not sound like a good NSGuide to me.
Second, I've played NS at LANs before. You think I was there in the CPL using my wallhax and aimbots? If you really wanna know if I'm cheating, why don't you go ask Flayra?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The key point here is you have some admins who don't know, and I have some who do. I'm sure you know several admins who do know. So its a bit of a silly debate, because it boils down to fractions.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The key point here is that most admins do not know. It's not a silly debate, it's a big issue when the clan scene is killed by voluntary ignorance coming from the highest order.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Its all about respect.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll tell you right now that there is no respect from most of the royalty of NS towards the clanners, nor have I ever seen an attempt by them to do so.
The clanners (through a long time of abuse) also lose their respect when people who don't even play, understand, or help the game's progress ban them from forum boards, servers, and mIRC channels.
Let me get this straight:
By PLAYING the game, we are KILLING it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uh, what? I said whining was the problem, not playing. If these words somehow share a similar meaning that I don't know about, please enlighten me.
I have been writing scripts for quake engine games ever since the beginning of Quake itself. I've had a role to play, if there was such a thing noted, among the "scripting community" for HL, mostly with Counter-Script and CS Forums since CS is more popular(You follow the community), but writing aliases for CS is the same for any other mod.
I will say the use of scripts and aliases is a double edged sword. At one side they are utilitarian, and rarely effect how you play the game directly. There are also scripts that help you to perform functions that are still perfectly "okay". Looking at NS specifically, you have scripts that can pick and choose upgrade chambers and upgrades themselves. Instead of binding many many keys to each function, the option without using aliases, then there could be lots of clutter and confusion, but since we have aliases we can take all those key binds and consolidate them in to only 3 or 4 keys and not deal with using up keyboard space or confusion. Even when you can drop two upgrade chambers at the same time with a script you can do the Exact same thing with two binds, or even one single bind. So preventing ALL scripts would prevent people from using very legitimite scripts like mentioned above.
Now on the other side of the blade you have real exploits. Forgotton commands and broken commands that would allow the player to do things you couldn't manually do in the game. Take for instance bunny hopping in CS. This example is easy enough to follow. Bunny hopping is not a part of CS anymore. You can't perform this on your own, because the game itself doesn't allow you to do it, but with an alias or script to change the enviroment you would be doing something your NOT supposed to do in CS. Like CS it goes for every game. Binding attack to your mousewheel a script? No.
Instead of preventing all scripts there needs to be a measure to identify what functions scripts and aliases provide that are illegal and block their uses. Either the game developers can change parts of the game to stop the use of those specific actions, or have some sort of third party plugin to prevent the actions of an alleged illegal script or alias.
I believe, for the most part, people just don't know where to draw the line because they don't know enough about alias writing in the first place or have actually seen a real exploit in action.
Its very rare that I come across a player in NS that has honor.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Necro, stop pretending that pub admins KNOW what scripts are/do, THEY DONT, AND WE HAVE PROOF. Open your eyes and stop using that argument over and over.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have proof pub admins KNOW what scripts are/do. Durr. The key point here is you have some admins who don't know, and I have some who do. I'm sure you know several admins who do know. So its a bit of a silly debate, because it boils down to fractions. Meh. I'm always going to say more admins know than don't, and you're going to say the opposite. So I left it at that. I didn't know you wanted a personalised reply saying "we have different interpretations of the numbers."
On a related note, if most don't know then it makes it pretty silly if you were the type of person who enters a server, ignores the rule list, tells everyone their rules are silly, and acts like a general tool. If admins need to know these things so badly, then chances are you'd get a better response by asking them for an IM conversation or something. At least then if it devolves to a dumb rant then only one person has to listen to it.
Its all about respect.
Respect the other players level of skill, taking a slack attitude to someone playing their best is a surefire way to annoy people and get banned.
Respect the admin - his rules may be dumb but he pays for the server and needs no reason to ban you. Be polite and maybe he'll listen. Always remember than the bulk of admins will reply with "Its easier to just..." because noone wants to spend their life coping with stupidity.
Respect the fact that sometimes you'll have to spend hard earned cash to play a game the way YOU want. Don't disrespect the other people who had to do the same thing.
Mutual respect, and higher tier servers (with good communities) would go a long way to helping. For a while iirc everyone was saying "go to Hamptons" for higher tier play. Where can you tell people to go now? Sounds like a vacuum to me, a niche which could be filled by the right admin with the right server. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So why don't we try taking a "census" to see who is right?
I'll wager alot that I am right. Those fractions do matter and are the whole point to this thread. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The language of your originating post implies that <i>all</i> pub admins are ignorant. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That proves what exactly?
The fact is most still DONT know what they do, no matter what you decide to post in order to argue against me isin't going to change that.
Its very rare that I come across a player in NS that has honor. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
define what you mean by honor.
Its very rare that I come across a player in NS that has honor. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
define what you mean by honor. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Honor isn't easily explainable and if you ask that question then you lack it.
its probably bushs fault <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->((((
IM MOVING TO CANADA AHH
<i>Emanon</i>,
You mention honor, but you clearly have your own interpretation of "honor"
so what do you mean by "honor"? What is your interpretation of "honor" when you say lack of "honor"
I happen to be a lead voogru admin, and while I barely play this game anymore, when I did, I really didn't care too much about scripting. I personally found scripting uneccessary (I've been playing games since before Quake engine, since before the Quake days), but I really never cared if others used it.
I haven't read through all of this thread, but here's my 2 cents. I think that some of the "veterans" of this game are the ones killing the clan scene. I've been a part of many other game communites, and many other games, and never have I seen whining of this magnitude over something that can best be classified as trivial. I'm sorry, but scripts are NOT that big of a deal, and you'll never convince me otherwise. The crying that takes place here and everywhere else over this stupid concept almost makes me happy that this once enjoyable game is reaching it's rapid demise. All everyone had to do is adapt, in a similar fashion that you would in any other game, but no, let's get the tears flowing instead.
If there wasn't such outcry this wouldn't even be an issue, so in the end, I suppose that you could say that those who were constantly whining about scripts, were the cause of NS' death, and not every single pub player and admin in existance, like the first post of this thread seems to suggest. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No one has ever shown any good reason as to why scripts are so necessary in the first place. THe argument for them is childish and not well thought out at all. Clanners are killing the scene because 90% of the clan scene is full of elitest insiders who think competitve NS is the most important issue facing the world today, that's why, not because people on pubs are too close-minded. The same argument you made in the first post in this thread could be the con-argument by replacing 'pub' or 'pubbers' with 'clan' or 'clanners'. You fail to realize nadagast that 99% of the clan community in NS are sheep. They like what other people like, they make fun of people others make fun of, and with you being as highly regaurded as you are people kiss your **** and you don't see what other people see. Their only allegience is to the guy who gets the most kills, there is no loyalty which leads me to believe there is no maturity.
You have to be objective to the fact that a good amount of 'clanners' in the past have been petty children when it comes to anything related to teamwork. This can be shown by the large turnover throughout all clans.
But as for the whole scripting thing, you'll never be able to form a proper argument as to why they should be allowed, because there isn't one. My favorite retort being, "I can do it anyway it just makes it easier!"<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Both of your statements are laughable.
Let me get this straight:
By PLAYING the game, we are KILLING it.
Good luck and have fun where ever you go! (not like anyone in their right mind cares)
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Firstly,
NSGuides Mission Statement:
NSGuides is a group of dedicated individuals working together to help the community grow through several means. These individuals will be dedicated to helping new players learn how to play by the way of an in-depth manual on their website, teaching them while playing in a public NS server, and also through free lessons, introducing new players to important aspects of the game. By helping players who are new to Natural Selection, we will be able to help them climb the steep learning curve, which will, in turn, keep them interested in the game and in turn help the community grow.
After reading through this several times, please show me where it says, "bail Forlorn out of a ban" Or for that matter ANYTHING about telling pubbers about how good or bad a player is. well you were probably thinking the same thing I was, it's not in there. The reason is because that IS NOT what the NSGuides do. They look out for players who have questions, and help people become better NS players. and again if you read my post, good things come to those who ASK!.
Second,
The NSGuides ARE supposed to educate, but how does Jojoshua know you are not cheating? He can have a good idea, but the only person(s) that know for sure are you, and whoever can see your monitor, I somehow doubt that you were both in the same room. And even at that just because you HATE the PT's and the NSGuides doesn't mean they are as inept as you make them out to be. Just to clairify this is NOT a hackusation, I said before I don't think you cheat at all, BUT I couldn't testify in court that you don't I can trust my better judgement.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First, bringing people together by indifference does not sound like a good NSGuide to me.
Second, I've played NS at LANs before. You think I was there in the CPL using my wallhax and aimbots? If you really wanna know if I'm cheating, why don't you go ask Flayra?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The key point here is you have some admins who don't know, and I have some who do. I'm sure you know several admins who do know. So its a bit of a silly debate, because it boils down to fractions.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The key point here is that most admins do not know. It's not a silly debate, it's a big issue when the clan scene is killed by voluntary ignorance coming from the highest order.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Its all about respect.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll tell you right now that there is no respect from most of the royalty of NS towards the clanners, nor have I ever seen an attempt by them to do so.
The clanners (through a long time of abuse) also lose their respect when people who don't even play, understand, or help the game's progress ban them from forum boards, servers, and mIRC channels. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Last dinosaur. I know people who would pay good money to find out what happens in your brain from the time you read something someone has said and when you actually form some type of response. No one said playing a game was killing it, I said people who are fickle and popmous are ruining the game. If you can somehow find an instance of wording that would lead you to believe either me or Terkish meant that playing the game was killing it then you should point it out immedietly because it might help us eliminate whatever type of communication dificency you seem to be suffering from.
Its very rare that I come across a player in NS that has honor. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
define what you mean by honor. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Honor isn't easily explainable and if you ask that question then you lack it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
On the flip side, attacking someone who hasn't done anything to you would indicate a lack of honor. But that's just my definition <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I happen to be a lead voogru admin, and while I barely play this game anymore, when I did, I really didn't care too much about scripting. I personally found scripting uneccessary (I've been playing games since before Quake engine, since before the Quake days), but I really never cared if others used it.
I haven't read through all of this thread, but here's my 2 cents. I think that some of the "veterans" of this game are the ones killing the clan scene. I've been a part of many other game communites, and many other games, and never have I seen whining of this magnitude over something that can best be classified as trivial. I'm sorry, but scripts are NOT that big of a deal, and you'll never convince me otherwise. The crying that takes place here and everywhere else over this stupid concept almost makes me happy that this once enjoyable game is reaching it's rapid demise. All everyone had to do is adapt, in a similar fashion that you would in any other game, but no, let's get the tears flowing instead.
If there wasn't such outcry this wouldn't even be an issue, so in the end, I suppose that you could say that those who were constantly whining about scripts, were the cause of NS' death, and not every single pub player and admin in existance, like the first post of this thread seems to suggest. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No one has ever shown any good reason as to why scripts are so necessary in the first place. THe argument for them is childish and not well thought out at all. Clanners are killing the scene because 90% of the clan scene is full of elitest insiders who think competitve NS is the most important issue facing the world today, that's why, not because people on pubs are too close-minded. The same argument you made in the first post in this thread could be the con-argument by replacing 'pub' or 'pubbers' with 'clan' or 'clanners'. You fail to realize nadagast that 99% of the clan community in NS are sheep. They like what other people like, they make fun of people others make fun of, and with you being as highly regaurded as you are people kiss your **** and you don't see what other people see. Their only allegience is to the guy who gets the most kills, there is no loyalty which leads me to believe there is no maturity.
You have to be objective to the fact that a good amount of 'clanners' in the past have been petty children when it comes to anything related to teamwork. This can be shown by the large turnover throughout all clans.
But as for the whole scripting thing, you'll never be able to form a proper argument as to why they should be allowed, because there isn't one. My favorite retort being, "I can do it anyway it just makes it easier!"<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Both of your statements are laughable.
Let me get this straight:
By PLAYING the game, we are KILLING it.
Good luck and have fun where ever you go! (not like anyone in their right mind cares)
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Firstly,
NSGuides Mission Statement:
NSGuides is a group of dedicated individuals working together to help the community grow through several means. These individuals will be dedicated to helping new players learn how to play by the way of an in-depth manual on their website, teaching them while playing in a public NS server, and also through free lessons, introducing new players to important aspects of the game. By helping players who are new to Natural Selection, we will be able to help them climb the steep learning curve, which will, in turn, keep them interested in the game and in turn help the community grow.
After reading through this several times, please show me where it says, "bail Forlorn out of a ban" Or for that matter ANYTHING about telling pubbers about how good or bad a player is. well you were probably thinking the same thing I was, it's not in there. The reason is because that IS NOT what the NSGuides do. They look out for players who have questions, and help people become better NS players. and again if you read my post, good things come to those who ASK!.
Second,
The NSGuides ARE supposed to educate, but how does Jojoshua know you are not cheating? He can have a good idea, but the only person(s) that know for sure are you, and whoever can see your monitor, I somehow doubt that you were both in the same room. And even at that just because you HATE the PT's and the NSGuides doesn't mean they are as inept as you make them out to be. Just to clairify this is NOT a hackusation, I said before I don't think you cheat at all, BUT I couldn't testify in court that you don't I can trust my better judgement.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First, bringing people together by indifference does not sound like a good NSGuide to me.
Second, I've played NS at LANs before. You think I was there in the CPL using my wallhax and aimbots? If you really wanna know if I'm cheating, why don't you go ask Flayra?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The key point here is you have some admins who don't know, and I have some who do. I'm sure you know several admins who do know. So its a bit of a silly debate, because it boils down to fractions.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The key point here is that most admins do not know. It's not a silly debate, it's a big issue when the clan scene is killed by voluntary ignorance coming from the highest order.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Its all about respect.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll tell you right now that there is no respect from most of the royalty of NS towards the clanners, nor have I ever seen an attempt by them to do so.
The clanners (through a long time of abuse) also lose their respect when people who don't even play, understand, or help the game's progress ban them from forum boards, servers, and mIRC channels. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Last dinosaur. I know people who would pay good money to find out what happens in your brain from the time you read something someone has said and when you actually form some type of response. No one said playing a game was killing it, I said people who are fickle and popmous are ruining the game. If you can somehow find an instance of wording that would lead you to believe either me or Terkish meant that playing the game was killing it then you should point it out immedietly because it might help us eliminate whatever type of communication dificency you seem to be suffering from. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure thing, since you can't read what you write I'll spell it out for you:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->full of elitest insiders who think competitve NS is the most important issue facing the world today, that's why, not because people on pubs are too close-minded. The same argument you made in the first post in this thread could be the con-argument by replacing 'pub' or 'pubbers' with 'clan' or 'clanners'.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My original argument was that ignorant pub admins kill the game
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think that some of the "veterans" of this game are the ones killing the clan scene.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is just blantant
Now that you understand what you and Terkish wrote, I'll just go back to where I left off:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Both of your statements are laughable.
Let me get this straight:
By PLAYING the game, we are KILLING it.
Good luck and have fun where ever you go! (not like anyone in their right mind cares)
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<i>Emanon</i>,
You mention honor, but you clearly have your own interpretation of "honor"
so what do you mean by "honor"? What is your interpretation of "honor" when you say lack of "honor" <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
People take things so personally like I'm singling them out.
You can be #1 with honor and that is the greatest thing. I didnt say america lacked it, I said some/most americans. Which cannot be denyed.
I have no interpretation other than what is written:
<a href='http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=honor' target='_blank'>HONOR</a>
Pay close attention to 2 and 8a.
*spelling*
<i>Emanon</i>,
You mention honor, but you clearly have your own interpretation of "honor"
so what do you mean by "honor"? What is your interpretation of "honor" when you say lack of "honor" <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
People take things so personally like I'm singling them out. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
*cough*<!--QuoteBegin-emanon+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (emanon)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Honor isn't easily explainable and if you ask that question then you lack it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->*cough*
I'd call that singling him out personally. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You can be #1 with honor and that is the greatest thing. I didnt say america lacked it, I said some/most americans. Which cannot be denyed. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Let's see....I'm sure some Brits lack "honor". And some Australians. And French. And German, Italian, Russian, Chinese, Indonesian, Polynesian, Cuban, Haitian, Guatemalan, Sudanese, Egyptian, Iranian, Lebanese, Chech, Mongolians, South Africans, etc, etc, bloody etc!
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I have no interpretation other than what is written:
<a href='http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=honor' target='_blank'>HONOR</a>
Pay close attention to 2 and 8a.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your honor and your code of conduct is what you make of it; citing from a dictionary is rather sad, actually. Notice how many definitions of "honor" there are. Which one means the most to you, and more importantly, which one do you feel some Americans lack. More than the rest of the world, I mean.
Thx,
SM5
This is just blantant
Now that you understand what you and Terkish wrote, I'll just go back to where I left off:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Both of your statements are laughable.
Let me get this straight:
By PLAYING the game, we are KILLING it.
Good luck and have fun where ever you go! (not like anyone in their right mind cares)
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just... wow. Nice job taking one of my sentences completely out of context, changing the meaning entirely, and butchering it to serve as an example of a statement that makes no sense in the first place.
I think it's fairly clear where this will go from here, so instead, I think I will go have an insightful conversation with Mr. Wall over there. Somehow, I imagine his responses couldn't possibly be any worse than what I have just read from you.
By the way, you should take another look at my name...
please elaborate, many of us are not american and thus dont really know any details about "foxnews" or how it fits in this discussion.
Some people like fights, I'll walk away from this one and retain my dignity.
This is just blantant
Now that you understand what you and Terkish wrote, I'll just go back to where I left off:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Both of your statements are laughable.
Let me get this straight:
By PLAYING the game, we are KILLING it.
Good luck and have fun where ever you go! (not like anyone in their right mind cares)
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just... wow. Nice job taking one of my sentences completely out of context, changing the meaning entirely, and butchering it to serve as an example of a statement that makes no sense in the first place.
I think it's fairly clear where this will go from here, so instead, I think I will go have an insightful conversation with Mr. Wall over there. Somehow, I imagine his responses couldn't possibly be any worse than what I have just read from you.
By the way, you should take another look at my name... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No kidding, Forlorn, you should seriously look for a job with FOxnews, they're always looking for people like you.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And you guys should join a debate team (or comedy central for your super witty comments!~), learn how to argue instead of trying to insult the other posters (which I may add you failed miserably). Ad homenien attacks always make you look weak.
Oh and spelling your name wrong was a typo, it was not indictive that I do not read posts, you should (again) try reading what you write before others start quoting them.
The NSGuides program has really fell down the gutter imo. To see what NSLearn as done and what they are going to do makes NSGuides look really bad. Not to mention NSLearn started after NSGuides and the guides still have no released a thing. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unfortunately I haven't had much time to be around, but when I am back to active status I plan on taking a vote from my staff members to see if we should fire off an email to ask to become an official sponsored program.
It would be really great if we took experience of the guys from NSlearn, and mix that with the official dev support. I have no doubt in my mind make the program explode (in a good way).
We'll see in a week or two.