SloppyKissesomgawd a furreh!VirginiaJoin Date: 2003-07-05Member: 17942Members, Constellation
edited February 2007
<!--quoteo(post=1604164:date=Feb 6 2007, 01:48 AM:name=xtcmen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(xtcmen @ Feb 6 2007, 01:48 AM) [snapback]1604164[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I started playing this game back in 1.04... wow those were the days. Anyway this game is pretty much dead right now and for the first time in what 2 or 3 years I didn't install NS after I reformatted. (I reformat once every 3 months btw). Two weeks ago I was playing this game more than 8 hours a week or so. Sure it was fun, but not as fun as before. So this is xtc's 3 reasons why you shouldn't reinstall NS when you next reformat. (talking about PUBNS only, not competitive)
1. For all of you who played 1.04, you can all agree with me that 1.04 was a lot more FUN than 3.2. The current release is just so F****** boring. Game Starts. A node or two goes down. A attempt to take down a hive. Hive goes down, or stays up. Fades annoy and die. Marines pressure and die. Game ends with a recycle or plain alien loss due to lack of nodes and higher lifeforms with 1 hive. It is the same stupid BS over and over again.
I mean at least in 1.04 there were 4 hour games where even if marines had jetpacks and level 3 hmgs, or the aliens had 3 hives the game was still going on. I don't remember that much repitition in 1.04 (besides the jetpack rush which was lame sometimes) at all. Over the years, NS has just gotten ishtier and ishtier. It all started with 2.0, and it went downhill from there. 3.0 beta 5 was pretty fun though because ramboing as a marine was pretty enjoyable.
2. The community is crap. There is no decent server to play on. Tactical Gamer is full of morons now because of the second server opening up, and NS armslab isn't too far behind in that department. Every other server has 5 million level combat servers with BS_1 which basically scares any decent competitive player away.
Then theres the ###### like me that go into servers, and either rape everyone or die because our team blows. And you guys wonder why we cry for shotguns in pubs. Better off giving it to us, than some noob with a 1-24 score.
3. For all of you who are looking forward to the next NS, and the only reason why you play this build is because your waiting for the next one go to your system 32 folder and hit these buttons in order: (ctrl + a), delete, enter. News flash, you are waiting for a new version of NS from the same people who couldn't rebuild the site and forums within a year after getting hacked. If it took a year to get the forums back, then by the time I im 30 (I'm 18) the new version of NS will be out
See most of you in 2 weeks. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
jesus, do me a favor ok? cry me a river build a bridge and get the ###### over it.
secondly, if you hate this game so much do us ALL a favor and never post on these forums again as well. 'and with that said, dont let the door hit you in the ###### on the way out.
1. Lack of good servers: I won't name any servers or admins but certain particular admins of the few remaining populated servers seem to get all pissy when someone better than them shows up and hits their ban hotkey. Here's a little message to admins who do this; Communities are made from people sticking around in a server. Newbies eventually become Veterans and possibly Pros after a while. You kick and ban the Vets and Pros then you're left with a pretty shallow community in the end. It's the Vets and Pros are the ones who stay the longest and usually provide things for the community. Most newbies are just there to try the game out and leave after a while.
2. Lack of content: NS has gone through tons and tons of changes. Some positive, some negative. One big negative is the complete lack of content. This is something that can't particularly be helped as NS is already pushing the limits of HL1's engine. By content, I don't nesscerrily mean maps but NEW stuff like new weapons, attacks, classes, structures ect. Everyone was getting hyped over the flamethrower not just because it's a flamethrower but because NS is just severely lacking in the new stuff department so badly. I guarantee you if NS released a patch tomorrow with a new alien lifeform or a shiny new marine gun, the servers would be packed with people wanting to use it. Yeah, I know they added in hand grenades but hand grenades are just so meh and boring in my opinion at least.
3. The NS website being down for God knows how long: I count this as the main "killer" for NS. I'm not the kind of person that checks on a website for a mod every single day unless they have some good forums up and people posting. The NS site, for a while, was just barely updated like a half-dead LiveJournal. This really caused a lot of rumors to start that the game went belly up. I took NS's main site off of my bookmarks after a long period of no updates and probably would of still thought the game was dead until I happened to read something on Planet Half-Life. A lot of people don't even know the existence of 3.2 beta because they believe the NS site to still be down. Can't fault them for too much, average NS pubbers I've talked to lately download NS from fileplanet, still see lots of NS 3.1 servers and think that's the latest version without ever visiting the main site.
Sarisel.::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::.Join Date: 2003-07-30Member: 18557Members, Constellation
edited February 2007
Some of you are pointing the finger at vets and regulars who don't teach new players things in the server. Once again, I don't know where you are coming from. Where I have played NS in the past (for a good 4 years or so now and recently too), the majority of new players a) don't say anything in game, b) the majority of the rest spew random useless comments, and c) the majority of those who are approachable can't understand what you are trying to show them if you decide to try. That is just how online gaming works. You can't expect some kind of collective love between players that is going to save NS. Maybe you might find a diamond in the dirt and take such a player under your wing. However, these diamonds are far and few in-between, especially for an aging game with a dwindling playerbase. It will just get more and more difficult.
Think about why anybody<u> that has not played NS</u> (this is important to avoid flamebait) would choose this game, on the HL engine, over some other spiffy game that is popular, enjoyable, and has plenty of servers to play on. I can think of only a few.
1. They are young, poor, and are playing on their parents' old pentium 3 with 256mb of ram and a clock speed of 1ghz (values may vary, obviously). This effectively limits their choices for games to play.
2. They don't have a job, can't have a job, don't want to get a job (for whatever reason), so this game falls within their range of FPS games, playable on their computers, that they happen to stumble upon. They can't afford to upgrade and try newer games.
3. They are searching for some classic games and, for one reason or another, find that NS qualifies (this is pretty rare, although I have met some new players that feel this way).
Honestly, I can't think of any other reasons that are not somehow variations of the above. Except for the third reason, all new players are usually coming from disadvantaged families or have disadvantaged mindsets, if not both. So, seeing as NS is a very demanding game in terms of communication, mental sharpness, and cunning - the newer players almost always fail (and they do this in a terrible way) at contributing anything to the game and at gaining anything tangeable from playing the game. They might as well be playing pacman with some fancy eye candy effects.
Then you could consider the fact that most players of popular games are terrible as well. However, the subset of the new players trying NS almost always excludes those that will succeed in overcoming the many barriers and disadvantages of being a new player in this game. Instead, you just get a steady procession of players like those that run their skulk into your line of fire over and over and over and over and over... players that would surely fail even if there were actually scripts to play the game for them.
Natural Selection, at this point, just needs a new beginning which will get the gamer population of the world to look at it again. It doesn't make any sense to talk about rescuing it by individual efforts - if the current NS was good enough, then it wouldn't be cooling down. No amount of individual effort will save it from this process.
<!--quoteo(post=1606841:date=Feb 15 2007, 11:16 AM:name=puzl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(puzl @ Feb 15 2007, 11:16 AM) [snapback]1606841[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I personally like games with deep skill curves. That is not the problem with NS, in my opinion, it is one of its strengths. I do believe that such skills should be intuitive though. The bizarre engine quirks that many players depend on should be replaced with intuitive alternatives. This kind of change is not 'dumbing down', it is 'smartening up'. It is replace skills that are simply learned through repition, with skills that can be observed and immitated - the people who think their way through the game should learn it by practice, whereas some of the current tricks in NS have to be explained. The only way you will stumble upon the crouch-double-jump trick in NS is either by accident, or by being shown. I think this is what SmoodCroozn is getting at. Some of you guys are just looking for disagreement where there is none. There is no reason a game can't be both intuitive and highly skill based. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Keep in mind that as well as intuitive depth, many people enjoy tricks of the trade, it gives the game a feature roughly similar to easter eggs. It's more or less like a treasure hunt, but the most important part of it is that you <i>never know if you've found the last one</i> and sometimes you find one lying in the park 2 years later.
With that said, I agree that <i>playing</i> the game should be intuitive, but that <i>mastering</i> the game can require some level of knowledge as well as just more of the same mastering of aim/bhop/etc. Example: <a href="http://faqs.ign.com/articles/627/627159p1.html" target="_blank">wavedashing</a>. It's an ability that abuses the game physics and isn't exactly what I'd call intuitive for a way of moving around (at least not anymore than doublejump). Nevertheless the game would be lacking a depth without it.
Maybe they could have implemented it differently, but <!--coloro:red--><span style="color:red"><!--/coloro--><!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> don't just include a freaking sourceforts speed bar that offers shallow or no depth of skill in the movement system.
Sure there is a deep skill curve and lots to learn but the twitch skill needed to learn and get good is low. Atleast it seems low to me <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> dont know how good average players are or where i stand compared to them but ive never considered myself having any innate fps skills. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It still takes some decent skill to be able to use the knowledge and experience. Positioning will do little good if you can't kill a bhop skulk with lmg mag. Its present in almost every multiplayer I know though. Slowing down the game speed and so making ns less demanding for fps skills would probably remove the challenge from being able to react at the right time. Almost anyone can do the right calls if he has as much time as he wants.
I still play NS because, simply put, there is no alternative. NS is the only game that plays like NS does, in that it's fast paced melee attackers VS long range dudes with various upgrades and abilities. I like B2 more then I liked the previous version. The second hive trump is still really dominating, but less so then it was in the last version, and the chambers are finally starting to feel balanced against each other.
This thread is stupid. Are you going to tell me I'm not actually having fun? Frankly, why should I care if the game is fun for you or not? It seems like just about every fan of the great almighty 1.4 is hopelessly stuck in the past. If anything this game is getting boring because it's just about 5 years old now. Right now for me it's as fun as it's ever been. I've had the best games in B2 that I've had in NS since I started playing. The current release owns.
You can make the game easier without removing any FPS skills. Just look at +movement and how much easier it makes fading but without dumbing the fade down. It makes a critical skill (blink swipe) more accessible without removing any of skill needed to make it effective. It's important to maintain a learning curve to keep players interested, if you and everyone else has mastered everything there is to master straight away then you'll find your enjoyment draining away. Discovery is an integral part of long-term game play.
<!--quoteo(post=1607156:date=Feb 16 2007, 09:53 AM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swiftspear @ Feb 16 2007, 09:53 AM) [snapback]1607156[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I can say this much. Most source mods out there wish they were as "dead" as NS is. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Interesting thread but its turning like most critism thread do, loosing control and pointing fingers.
(talking in general here and not pointing) There are more threads about critism loosing control/objective then about people posting discussions about why they love NS. Why ? Because its easier to destroy then to construct. The amount of people having negative comments is less then people having positive comments, because its easier to do so. I realy whish people having positive comments would start threads where we would see only things like "I love NS because ..." or "I enjoy NS ...".
Sorry for that but I just get sick of seeing so much easy negative threads. Anyway, (no comments about this so this doesn't turn into a cat fight or the likes!!!)
I have been playing NS since 1.04 . Initialy I used to play 2-3 hours per week but for the past year, I've played an average of 20 hours per week. NS is my favorite game in all the games I have (I have 10-12 games). What attracted me to it was teamplay. That was the first game ever where I played and felt there were real teamplay. OK, now and then you have your typical Rambos but teamplay is more present in this game then all other ones I played (don't start about telling me to try this and that, that's not the point of this discussion).
I admit that recently, I am geting a bit bored now when I play but that is because of a combination of factors and not the game itself. - life issues - carreer issues - too many servers with plugins/menus where people just upgrade for specifics to rape the other team constantly without you having a chances to even upgrade or stay alive 3 seconds - typical fades that go focus almost all the times, killing you with one sweap - I'm a lousy fade because fade is hard to do. Trying to blink+attack+blink away is hard to do. I might get the hang of it one day ... I'm a better lerk then fade but still kinda lousy. Again having to do 2 actions at the same time takes geting used to and is har. So that leaves for me, lerk, gorg and sometimes onos (which I rarely use cause its just to damn easy being an onos) - servers where there is simply TOO much talking going on. - I play CO more often then NS. Why ? Because you get the upgrades you want faster then in NS. I believe people get annoyed in NS because they simply cannot wait for upgrades, don't understand the upgrade tree, or just keep kicking off the comms until after 6 times they aliens have advanced way more then marines and therefore marines loose - I commanded about 20-30 times and there is more people kicking you for no reasons or simply because they cannot wait. Seams that now every times I comm, there is always 1-2 of those. - people also complainging too much about a comm who simply doesn't have enough experience or not enough to the team's liking. I know people keep telling those unexperienced comms to go on noobs servers but they simply cannot find those and resort to play on normal/skilled servers. - servers with bots. They are idealed for training but the majority of those servers have like %200 accuracy bots which discourage players into leaving. These are the rare servers where I have fun with the xmenus and such because I can then experiment the upgrades efficency
Even with all that, I still love NS and it is still my favorite game. I haven't tried 3.2 much mainly because it is most often lacking players.
<!--quoteo(post=1607045:date=Feb 16 2007, 06:41 AM:name=Sarisel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sarisel @ Feb 16 2007, 06:41 AM) [snapback]1607045[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Some of you are pointing the finger at vets and regulars who don't teach new players things in the server. Once again, I don't know where you are coming from. Where I have played NS in the past (for a good 4 years or so now and recently too), the majority of new players a) don't say anything in game, b) the majority of the rest spew random useless comments, and c) the majority of those who are approachable can't understand what you are trying to show them if you decide to try. That is just how online gaming works. You can't expect some kind of collective love between players that is going to save NS. Maybe you might find a diamond in the dirt and take such a player under your wing. However, these diamonds are far and few in-between, especially for an aging game with a dwindling playerbase. It will just get more and more difficult.
Think about why anybody<u> that has not played NS</u> (this is important to avoid flamebait) would choose this game, on the HL engine, over some other spiffy game that is popular, enjoyable, and has plenty of servers to play on. I can think of only a few.
1. They are young, poor, and are playing on their parents' old pentium 3 with 256mb of ram and a clock speed of 1ghz (values may vary, obviously). This effectively limits their choices for games to play.
2. They don't have a job, can't have a job, don't want to get a job (for whatever reason), so this game falls within their range of FPS games, playable on their computers, that they happen to stumble upon. They can't afford to upgrade and try newer games.
3. They are searching for some classic games and, for one reason or another, find that NS qualifies (this is pretty rare, although I have met some new players that feel this way).
Honestly, I can't think of any other reasons that are not somehow variations of the above. Except for the third reason, all new players are usually coming from disadvantaged families or have disadvantaged mindsets, if not both. So, seeing as NS is a very demanding game in terms of communication, mental sharpness, and cunning - the newer players almost always fail (and they do this in a terrible way) at contributing anything to the game and at gaining anything tangeable from playing the game. They might as well be playing pacman with some fancy eye candy effects.
Then you could consider the fact that most players of popular games are terrible as well. However, the subset of the new players trying NS almost always excludes those that will succeed in overcoming the many barriers and disadvantages of being a new player in this game. Instead, you just get a steady procession of players like those that run their skulk into your line of fire over and over and over and over and over... players that would surely fail even if there were actually scripts to play the game for them.
Natural Selection, at this point, just needs a new beginning which will get the gamer population of the world to look at it again. It doesn't make any sense to talk about rescuing it by individual efforts - if the current NS was good enough, then it wouldn't be cooling down. No amount of individual effort will save it from this process. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I picked up NS because I love the strategy, but I could not afford an upgrade to play CS:S anymore. I had to turn to NS, so I can understand where you are coming from. I love it now though.
<!--quoteo(post=1607143:date=Feb 16 2007, 01:41 PM:name=MrBen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MrBen @ Feb 16 2007, 01:41 PM) [snapback]1607143[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> You can make the game easier without removing any FPS skills. Just look at +movement and how much easier it makes fading but without dumbing the fade down. It makes a critical skill (blink swipe) more accessible without removing any of skill needed to make it effective. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
While I somewhat agree with this "command" put into the game, why is it so difficult for people to realize they can change their keyboard and mouse configs to make that simple. I did this like as soon as i learned the generics of the game. I changed mouse 2 to weapon 2, scroll down to weapon 3, scroll up for weapon 1. This makes it INCREDIBLY easy, and faster than pretty much any blink/meta/swipe script anyone might have. It doesnt' take but a tenth of a second to right click, blink away, scroll down to start metabolizing while running, then switch to swipe very fast if need be. Some things are just common sense, they don't need to be added into the game. If someone can't figure out, or ask, how to change a config, they probably shouldn't be on a computer. Computers do exactly what you tell them, and if you don't know what to tell them, ask for help, don't expect dell/gateway/hp etc to type for you.
I know that seems rather crude and mean, but it's not difficult to go to the forums of almost any gaming community (since they all spam their forum information, and as an admin @ NSA I know we did this too) and ask for assistance. Most people in forums are always ready to give helpful advice, especially admins.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If ns isn't the game you want to play, what should be done?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What could be done is as I said, making the game easier to play. But the conception that seems to float around here is that if the game is easier to play, that the game won't require any skill.
When I say easier to play, I mean reduce or remove the level of twitch skill required to play the game. Just because there is little or no twitch skill doesn't mean the game won't take any effort to play (3 negatives wow). If that were true, why would there be tournaments for a game such as chess?
So someone brought up my example, removing blink. Now what does this do? It gives us a class that more people can play, instead of the reserved few. Yes, it may seem that the majority of those that post in this thread know and are good with the fade, but I can tell you there are countless more that play that are far below this level, but do not post in these forums.
Anyway, take a look at the 1.04 fade. Acid rocket was a skill designed in a way that anyone could easily pick it up. Aim at target, fire. No jumping, switch-toggling or what not. It was a tool that wasn't about the player skill, but about what it could be used for, one of them being, breaking turret farms. In fact, I'm one those that say that the 3.2 change actually made fading even harder. Now if you hit a wall, you're a dead target. Now map memorization becomes even more important.
Of course I'm not promoting acid rocket at hive 1, but it's just an example to illustrate that an easy "twitchless" ability won't wreck the game. Take my blink example as an example. Don't focus on "it", but rather what it represents.
The problem I have with twitch skills is that it's hard to balance for, it unbalances games and at certain times, it removes the need for teamplay.
I believe the game is balanced for the clanners. And at the moment, I believe it works. But when you give some old joe a shotgun or if he fades, he won't be able to perform at the level that a clanner would do. Now we could call this skill, but there's another factor to this: our opponent. So not only do we have to master how to do the action, but also react to our enemy. Clanners can easily do step 1 and go into step 2. But to those of us who aren't as proficient, we can't focus on the enemy. Strategy is about choices. Moving a pawn in chess is the same whether you are a pro or a beginner. In NS, if you can't do these choices WELL, you can't do them.
This term skill or rather physical skill divides players. When you have a game with similar skilled players, if a poor player joins up, the game remains relatively the same. But when you have a clanner join in, he impacts the game just by himself. Perhaps he's the one that locks down the middle hive in the first couple minutes of the game. Or he might be the one that takes keyhole by himself and ammo/medspam.
From those examples, the one player, whether it be a fade or a marine does most of the work by himself. Yes, he has a team, but the one player's performance largely determines how the game will swing. And to the players that aren't as skilled... they helplessly have to follow the flow.
Perhaps I can only see this because I'm not one of the greatest players out there. Or maybe it's because I don't and never have participated in a clan match. But if you look from the eyes of a gamer who just plays occasionally, you might see some similarities.
What I'm saying today is that I understand I'm asking for something to be changed that coincidentally helps most of the people that will read this post. When blink was introduced, it gave a nudge-up to those skilled enough to use it. What I'm trying to do is talk about the times when NS wasn't as twitch-skill oriented, which it slowly is becoming to be. I'm one of those that believes that strategy isn't about how well it is executed, but what is chosen to be done. Instead of reading this and imagining how all the skill-based benefits will be removed, try to picture NS as a game where you can rely on each and every player.
I love NS. I joined in v2.01 and have been here since. Admittedly I enjoyed those marine barricades of desperation that took every ounce of concentration to hold out. The onos becomming weaker relatively is a majot cause for that change, but I'm thrilled to see the lerk the way it is now. It is one of my favorite attack classes.
Anyways... I feel that the NS community that you see on the forums regularly in particular is one of the best gamming communities on the planet.
If the post author is your stereotypical v1.04 veteran then I feel such people should be promptly ignored.
<u>Some sad observations</u>:<ul><li>Too few NS servers with half-decent pings and people playing them, and the ones that seem to have the most fun are the marine/alien trainers</li><li>Too few people playing on good servers, again so many people play combat.</li><li>Too few newbies that make the game a learing experience, and too many n00bs who refuse to learn</li><li>Too many ###### playing combat and too many seemingly deaf players in both NS and CO map types.</li><li>Limited good new content, new music, GOOD new maps (not more sucky CO and Seige maps), etc.</li><li>Too few people just wanting to play the game fun with trying to act in the immersion (did this on my server recently and it was great! we played until 8AM)</li></ul> Hmm. The next logical step would be to fix the weaknesses, yes?
<!--quoteo(post=1607704:date=Feb 19 2007, 11:46 AM:name=the_x5)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(the_x5 @ Feb 19 2007, 11:46 AM) [snapback]1607704[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Hmm. The next logical step would be to fix the weaknesses, yes? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> the problems have been listed for so many times and if the dev team realized it and if they treat them seriously, this kind of thread wont be repeated for so many times. but sad this is not the truth and ns is moving more and more towards the commercial side. yes the next logical step is to fix, but if the dev team doesnt even want to move, what can we do?
Sarisel.::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::.Join Date: 2003-07-30Member: 18557Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1607704:date=Feb 18 2007, 10:46 PM:name=the_x5)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(the_x5 @ Feb 18 2007, 10:46 PM) [snapback]1607704[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><u>Some sad observations</u>:<ul><li>Too few NS servers with half-decent pings and people playing them, and the ones that seem to have the most fun are the marine/alien trainers</li><li>Too few people playing on good servers, again so many people play combat.</li><li>Too few newbies that make the game a learing experience, and too many n00bs who refuse to learn</li><li>Too many ###### playing combat and too many seemingly deaf players in both NS and CO map types.</li><li>Limited good new content, new music, GOOD new maps (not more sucky CO and Seige maps), etc.</li><li>Too few people just wanting to play the game fun with trying to act in the immersion (did this on my server recently and it was great! we played until 8AM)</li></ul>Hmm. The next logical step would be to fix the weaknesses, yes? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Those weaknesses lie in the players, stemming from the age of the game.
<!--quoteo(post=1607832:date=Feb 19 2007, 05:07 PM:name=Firewater)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Firewater @ Feb 19 2007, 05:07 PM) [snapback]1607832[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Can't balance the players, only the game, I believe Flayra said that.
That applies to player's attitudes as well, there seems to be an overwhelming amount of players that are just combat oriented.
Not having enough players for classic all the time certainly is troublesome to those who remember when NS was just NS, and had no other labels. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That was for the five minutes before people decided to make ns_supersiege007 servers.
I agree with xtcmen. I liked 3.2 beta 1 where there was no hive 3 armor. 3 hives against proto teched marines could be very entertaining if they would reduce hive 3 armor.
My own personal reasons for getting in a bad mood every time I double click the NS icon on steam:
The servers. I'm really sick of all the sieges, co_, plugins, and all this other bullish. I'm especially sick of the players who only know to play in these plugin-infested ishholes. I'm sorry for sounding like a ######, but all these random ###### maps and plugins have killed public NS.
The players. Even after 4 years, hardly anyone even knows how to play NS. Hey it's 5 minutes into the game. Let's keep walking around aimlessly and let them have a second hive. The average skill level in NS is too low for any real competition to happen. The lower-skill players usually just harass the good players, instead of respecting them. Forced to play aliens because people haven't learned how to skulk yet? `exit
Sarisel.::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::.Join Date: 2003-07-30Member: 18557Members, Constellation
It's too bad that no matter how terrible the pub experience gets, you'll still play it. No matter how bad competitive NS gets, you'll still try to do something with it. List all the reasons that you want, voice your hatred for the condition that this game is in, and yet you'll still play it.
This makes for a pretty useless topic now, since nothing is really being discussed anymore. The players who can quit playing this game have already done so.
<!--quoteo(post=1608008:date=Feb 20 2007, 02:40 AM:name=Sarisel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sarisel @ Feb 20 2007, 02:40 AM) [snapback]1608008[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> It's too bad that no matter how terrible the pub experience gets, you'll still play it. No matter how bad competitive NS gets, you'll still try to do something with it. List all the reasons that you want, voice your hatred for the condition that this game is in, and yet you'll still play it.
This makes for a pretty useless topic now, since nothing is really being discussed anymore. The players who can quit playing this game have already done so. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats a valid point, and an extremely good one. The worst possible thing that you can do to Natural Selection is to stop playing it, and stop talking about it. I am slowly learning to do that, and as soon as I find another forum to become a regular in, I will stop visiting this forum (without any grand exits that I have made in past before).
Basically one has to accept that probably all of your intelligent ideas, balance issues, and other things that could potentially provide enhancements to the game will be ignored. Best thing to do is find a new game with your teams/communities and leave NS to the combat allstars, and the siege map specialists.
Sarisel.::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::.Join Date: 2003-07-30Member: 18557Members, Constellation
The surest way to the hearts and minds of an upcoming game development company, such as UWE, is through money before words. We know this from the case of an investor called HAMBONE. We also know that Charlie is looking for "angel investors".
If you express yourself concisely and elaborately, some of your ideasl might get through even if you are just a regular player. However, unless you are willing to heavily invest in the people behind the game, you will mostly be shouting into the wind.
So, if you have a fortune and want to make something out of UWE, take it while it is still cheap (or alive).
<!--quoteo(post=1608270:date=Feb 21 2007, 04:49 AM:name=DuoGodOfDeath)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DuoGodOfDeath @ Feb 21 2007, 04:49 AM) [snapback]1608270[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> When we did pub we would go hey lets play on this server. Only to hear Mak say hes banned on it. And repeat for the next 10 servers we listed. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah well G4B2S and BAD clan and Old F hate me so much that the admins have my steam ids and ip range written on their hands in sharpie. If you get above a 1:1 ratio they look at their palms and check to see who you are.
<!--quoteo(post=1608008:date=Feb 20 2007, 07:40 AM:name=Sarisel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sarisel @ Feb 20 2007, 07:40 AM) [snapback]1608008[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> It's too bad that no matter how terrible the pub experience gets, you'll still play it. No matter how bad competitive NS gets, you'll still try to do something with it. List all the reasons that you want, voice your hatred for the condition that this game is in, and yet you'll still play it.
This makes for a pretty useless topic now, since nothing is really being discussed anymore. The players who can quit playing this game have already done so. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If there was one copy of NS left on a cd in a burning building about to collapase Darwin's Law and TheAdj would run in to save it.
I have to agree with some of the points. But you have to find alternatives and 2 years ago I found the YO-Clan server again: 85.236.98.56:27015 #yo-clan | www.yoclan.com [Classic Only] v3.2b2
I'm a reg there and the community is nice and sticks to the basic spirit of NS <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
Comments
I started playing this game back in 1.04... wow those were the days. Anyway this game is pretty much dead right now and for the first time in what 2 or 3 years I didn't install NS after I reformatted. (I reformat once every 3 months btw). Two weeks ago I was playing this game more than 8 hours a week or so. Sure it was fun, but not as fun as before. So this is xtc's 3 reasons why you shouldn't reinstall NS when you next reformat. (talking about PUBNS only, not competitive)
1. For all of you who played 1.04, you can all agree with me that 1.04 was a lot more FUN than 3.2. The current release is just so F****** boring. Game Starts. A node or two goes down. A attempt to take down a hive. Hive goes down, or stays up. Fades annoy and die. Marines pressure and die. Game ends with a recycle or plain alien loss due to lack of nodes and higher lifeforms with 1 hive. It is the same stupid BS over and over again.
I mean at least in 1.04 there were 4 hour games where even if marines had jetpacks and level 3 hmgs, or the aliens had 3 hives the game was still going on. I don't remember that much repitition in 1.04 (besides the jetpack rush which was lame sometimes) at all. Over the years, NS has just gotten ishtier and ishtier. It all started with 2.0, and it went downhill from there. 3.0 beta 5 was pretty fun though because ramboing as a marine was pretty enjoyable.
2. The community is crap. There is no decent server to play on. Tactical Gamer is full of morons now because of the second server opening up, and NS armslab isn't too far behind in that department. Every other server has 5 million level combat servers with BS_1 which basically scares any decent competitive player away.
Then theres the ###### like me that go into servers, and either rape everyone or die because our team blows. And you guys wonder why we cry for shotguns in pubs. Better off giving it to us, than some noob with a 1-24 score.
3. For all of you who are looking forward to the next NS, and the only reason why you play this build is because your waiting for the next one go to your system 32 folder and hit these buttons in order: (ctrl + a), delete, enter. News flash, you are waiting for a new version of NS from the same people who couldn't rebuild the site and forums within a year after getting hacked. If it took a year to get the forums back, then by the time I im 30 (I'm 18) the new version of NS will be out
See most of you in 2 weeks.
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jesus, do me a favor ok?
cry me a river build a bridge and get the ###### over it.
secondly, if you hate this game so much do us ALL a favor and never post on these forums again as well.
'and with that said, dont let the door hit you in the ###### on the way out.
1. Lack of good servers: I won't name any servers or admins but certain particular admins of the few remaining populated servers seem to get all pissy when someone better than them shows up and hits their ban hotkey. Here's a little message to admins who do this; Communities are made from people sticking around in a server. Newbies eventually become Veterans and possibly Pros after a while. You kick and ban the Vets and Pros then you're left with a pretty shallow community in the end. It's the Vets and Pros are the ones who stay the longest and usually provide things for the community. Most newbies are just there to try the game out and leave after a while.
2. Lack of content: NS has gone through tons and tons of changes. Some positive, some negative. One big negative is the complete lack of content. This is something that can't particularly be helped as NS is already pushing the limits of HL1's engine. By content, I don't nesscerrily mean maps but NEW stuff like new weapons, attacks, classes, structures ect. Everyone was getting hyped over the flamethrower not just because it's a flamethrower but because NS is just severely lacking in the new stuff department so badly. I guarantee you if NS released a patch tomorrow with a new alien lifeform or a shiny new marine gun, the servers would be packed with people wanting to use it. Yeah, I know they added in hand grenades but hand grenades are just so meh and boring in my opinion at least.
3. The NS website being down for God knows how long: I count this as the main "killer" for NS. I'm not the kind of person that checks on a website for a mod every single day unless they have some good forums up and people posting. The NS site, for a while, was just barely updated like a half-dead LiveJournal. This really caused a lot of rumors to start that the game went belly up. I took NS's main site off of my bookmarks after a long period of no updates and probably would of still thought the game was dead until I happened to read something on Planet Half-Life. A lot of people don't even know the existence of 3.2 beta because they believe the NS site to still be down. Can't fault them for too much, average NS pubbers I've talked to lately download NS from fileplanet, still see lots of NS 3.1 servers and think that's the latest version without ever visiting the main site.
Think about why anybody<u> that has not played NS</u> (this is important to avoid flamebait) would choose this game, on the HL engine, over some other spiffy game that is popular, enjoyable, and has plenty of servers to play on. I can think of only a few.
1. They are young, poor, and are playing on their parents' old pentium 3 with 256mb of ram and a clock speed of 1ghz (values may vary, obviously). This effectively limits their choices for games to play.
2. They don't have a job, can't have a job, don't want to get a job (for whatever reason), so this game falls within their range of FPS games, playable on their computers, that they happen to stumble upon. They can't afford to upgrade and try newer games.
3. They are searching for some classic games and, for one reason or another, find that NS qualifies (this is pretty rare, although I have met some new players that feel this way).
Honestly, I can't think of any other reasons that are not somehow variations of the above. Except for the third reason, all new players are usually coming from disadvantaged families or have disadvantaged mindsets, if not both. So, seeing as NS is a very demanding game in terms of communication, mental sharpness, and cunning - the newer players almost always fail (and they do this in a terrible way) at contributing anything to the game and at gaining anything tangeable from playing the game. They might as well be playing pacman with some fancy eye candy effects.
Then you could consider the fact that most players of popular games are terrible as well. However, the subset of the new players trying NS almost always excludes those that will succeed in overcoming the many barriers and disadvantages of being a new player in this game. Instead, you just get a steady procession of players like those that run their skulk into your line of fire over and over and over and over and over... players that would surely fail even if there were actually scripts to play the game for them.
Natural Selection, at this point, just needs a new beginning which will get the gamer population of the world to look at it again. It doesn't make any sense to talk about rescuing it by individual efforts - if the current NS was good enough, then it wouldn't be cooling down. No amount of individual effort will save it from this process.
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Keep in mind that as well as intuitive depth, many people enjoy tricks of the trade, it gives the game a feature roughly similar to easter eggs. It's more or less like a treasure hunt, but the most important part of it is that you <i>never know if you've found the last one</i> and sometimes you find one lying in the park 2 years later.
With that said, I agree that <i>playing</i> the game should be intuitive, but that <i>mastering</i> the game can require some level of knowledge as well as just more of the same mastering of aim/bhop/etc. Example: <a href="http://faqs.ign.com/articles/627/627159p1.html" target="_blank">wavedashing</a>. It's an ability that abuses the game physics and isn't exactly what I'd call intuitive for a way of moving around (at least not anymore than doublejump). Nevertheless the game would be lacking a depth without it.
Maybe they could have implemented it differently, but <!--coloro:red--><span style="color:red"><!--/coloro--><!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> don't just include a freaking sourceforts speed bar that offers shallow or no depth of skill in the movement system.
Sure there is a deep skill curve and lots to learn but the twitch skill needed to learn and get good is low.
Atleast it seems low to me <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> dont know how good average players are or where i stand compared to them but ive never considered myself having any innate fps skills.
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It still takes some decent skill to be able to use the knowledge and experience. Positioning will do little good if you can't kill a bhop skulk with lmg mag. Its present in almost every multiplayer I know though. Slowing down the game speed and so making ns less demanding for fps skills would probably remove the challenge from being able to react at the right time. Almost anyone can do the right calls if he has as much time as he wants.
This thread is stupid. Are you going to tell me I'm not actually having fun? Frankly, why should I care if the game is fun for you or not? It seems like just about every fan of the great almighty 1.4 is hopelessly stuck in the past. If anything this game is getting boring because it's just about 5 years old now. Right now for me it's as fun as it's ever been. I've had the best games in B2 that I've had in NS since I started playing. The current release owns.
I can say this much. Most source mods out there wish they were as "dead" as NS is.
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wow they must really suck then.
nothing wrong with trying harder.
(talking in general here and not pointing)
There are more threads about critism loosing control/objective then about people posting discussions about why they love NS. Why ? Because its easier to destroy then to construct. The amount of people having negative comments is less then people having positive comments, because its easier to do so. I realy whish people having positive comments would start threads where we would see only things like "I love NS because ..." or "I enjoy NS ...".
Sorry for that but I just get sick of seeing so much easy negative threads. Anyway, (no comments about this so this doesn't turn into a cat fight or the likes!!!)
I have been playing NS since 1.04 . Initialy I used to play 2-3 hours per week but for the past year, I've played an average of 20 hours per week. NS is my favorite game in all the games I have (I have 10-12 games). What attracted me to it was teamplay. That was the first game ever where I played and felt there were real teamplay. OK, now and then you have your typical Rambos but teamplay is more present in this game then all other ones I played (don't start about telling me to try this and that, that's not the point of this discussion).
I admit that recently, I am geting a bit bored now when I play but that is because of a combination of factors and not the game itself.
- life issues
- carreer issues
- too many servers with plugins/menus where people just upgrade for specifics to rape the other team constantly without you having a chances to even upgrade or stay alive 3 seconds
- typical fades that go focus almost all the times, killing you with one sweap
- I'm a lousy fade because fade is hard to do. Trying to blink+attack+blink away is hard to do. I might get the hang of it one day ... I'm a better lerk then fade but still kinda lousy. Again having to do 2 actions at the same time takes geting used to and is har. So that leaves for me, lerk, gorg and sometimes onos (which I rarely use cause its just to damn easy being an onos)
- servers where there is simply TOO much talking going on.
- I play CO more often then NS. Why ? Because you get the upgrades you want faster then in NS. I believe people get annoyed in NS because they simply cannot wait for upgrades, don't understand the upgrade tree, or just keep kicking off the comms until after 6 times they aliens have advanced way more then marines and therefore marines loose
- I commanded about 20-30 times and there is more people kicking you for no reasons or simply because they cannot wait. Seams that now every times I comm, there is always 1-2 of those.
- people also complainging too much about a comm who simply doesn't have enough experience or not enough to the team's liking. I know people keep telling those unexperienced comms to go on noobs servers but they simply cannot find those and resort to play on normal/skilled servers.
- servers with bots. They are idealed for training but the majority of those servers have like %200 accuracy bots which discourage players into leaving. These are the rare servers where I have fun with the xmenus and such because I can then experiment the upgrades efficency
Even with all that, I still love NS and it is still my favorite game. I haven't tried 3.2 much mainly because it is most often lacking players.
Some of you are pointing the finger at vets and regulars who don't teach new players things in the server. Once again, I don't know where you are coming from. Where I have played NS in the past (for a good 4 years or so now and recently too), the majority of new players a) don't say anything in game, b) the majority of the rest spew random useless comments, and c) the majority of those who are approachable can't understand what you are trying to show them if you decide to try. That is just how online gaming works. You can't expect some kind of collective love between players that is going to save NS. Maybe you might find a diamond in the dirt and take such a player under your wing. However, these diamonds are far and few in-between, especially for an aging game with a dwindling playerbase. It will just get more and more difficult.
Think about why anybody<u> that has not played NS</u> (this is important to avoid flamebait) would choose this game, on the HL engine, over some other spiffy game that is popular, enjoyable, and has plenty of servers to play on. I can think of only a few.
1. They are young, poor, and are playing on their parents' old pentium 3 with 256mb of ram and a clock speed of 1ghz (values may vary, obviously). This effectively limits their choices for games to play.
2. They don't have a job, can't have a job, don't want to get a job (for whatever reason), so this game falls within their range of FPS games, playable on their computers, that they happen to stumble upon. They can't afford to upgrade and try newer games.
3. They are searching for some classic games and, for one reason or another, find that NS qualifies (this is pretty rare, although I have met some new players that feel this way).
Honestly, I can't think of any other reasons that are not somehow variations of the above. Except for the third reason, all new players are usually coming from disadvantaged families or have disadvantaged mindsets, if not both. So, seeing as NS is a very demanding game in terms of communication, mental sharpness, and cunning - the newer players almost always fail (and they do this in a terrible way) at contributing anything to the game and at gaining anything tangeable from playing the game. They might as well be playing pacman with some fancy eye candy effects.
Then you could consider the fact that most players of popular games are terrible as well. However, the subset of the new players trying NS almost always excludes those that will succeed in overcoming the many barriers and disadvantages of being a new player in this game. Instead, you just get a steady procession of players like those that run their skulk into your line of fire over and over and over and over and over... players that would surely fail even if there were actually scripts to play the game for them.
Natural Selection, at this point, just needs a new beginning which will get the gamer population of the world to look at it again. It doesn't make any sense to talk about rescuing it by individual efforts - if the current NS was good enough, then it wouldn't be cooling down. No amount of individual effort will save it from this process.
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I picked up NS because I love the strategy, but I could not afford an upgrade to play CS:S anymore. I had to turn to NS, so I can understand where you are coming from. I love it now though.
You can make the game easier without removing any FPS skills. Just look at +movement and how much easier it makes fading but without dumbing the fade down. It makes a critical skill (blink swipe) more accessible without removing any of skill needed to make it effective. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
While I somewhat agree with this "command" put into the game, why is it so difficult for people to realize they can change their keyboard and mouse configs to make that simple. I did this like as soon as i learned the generics of the game. I changed mouse 2 to weapon 2, scroll down to weapon 3, scroll up for weapon 1. This makes it INCREDIBLY easy, and faster than pretty much any blink/meta/swipe script anyone might have. It doesnt' take but a tenth of a second to right click, blink away, scroll down to start metabolizing while running, then switch to swipe very fast if need be. Some things are just common sense, they don't need to be added into the game. If someone can't figure out, or ask, how to change a config, they probably shouldn't be on a computer. Computers do exactly what you tell them, and if you don't know what to tell them, ask for help, don't expect dell/gateway/hp etc to type for you.
I know that seems rather crude and mean, but it's not difficult to go to the forums of almost any gaming community (since they all spam their forum information, and as an admin @ NSA I know we did this too) and ask for assistance. Most people in forums are always ready to give helpful advice, especially admins.
What could be done is as I said, making the game easier to play. But the conception that seems to float around here is that if the game is easier to play, that the game won't require any skill.
When I say easier to play, I mean reduce or remove the level of twitch skill required to play the game. Just because there is little or no twitch skill doesn't mean the game won't take any effort to play (3 negatives wow). If that were true, why would there be tournaments for a game such as chess?
So someone brought up my example, removing blink. Now what does this do? It gives us a class that more people can play, instead of the reserved few. Yes, it may seem that the majority of those that post in this thread know and are good with the fade, but I can tell you there are countless more that play that are far below this level, but do not post in these forums.
Anyway, take a look at the 1.04 fade. Acid rocket was a skill designed in a way that anyone could easily pick it up. Aim at target, fire. No jumping, switch-toggling or what not. It was a tool that wasn't about the player skill, but about what it could be used for, one of them being, breaking turret farms. In fact, I'm one those that say that the 3.2 change actually made fading even harder. Now if you hit a wall, you're a dead target. Now map memorization becomes even more important.
Of course I'm not promoting acid rocket at hive 1, but it's just an example to illustrate that an easy "twitchless" ability won't wreck the game. Take my blink example as an example. Don't focus on "it", but rather what it represents.
The problem I have with twitch skills is that it's hard to balance for, it unbalances games and at certain times, it removes the need for teamplay.
I believe the game is balanced for the clanners. And at the moment, I believe it works. But when you give some old joe a shotgun or if he fades, he won't be able to perform at the level that a clanner would do. Now we could call this skill, but there's another factor to this: our opponent. So not only do we have to master how to do the action, but also react to our enemy. Clanners can easily do step 1 and go into step 2. But to those of us who aren't as proficient, we can't focus on the enemy. Strategy is about choices. Moving a pawn in chess is the same whether you are a pro or a beginner. In NS, if you can't do these choices WELL, you can't do them.
This term skill or rather physical skill divides players. When you have a game with similar skilled players, if a poor player joins up, the game remains relatively the same. But when you have a clanner join in, he impacts the game just by himself. Perhaps he's the one that locks down the middle hive in the first couple minutes of the game. Or he might be the one that takes keyhole by himself and ammo/medspam.
From those examples, the one player, whether it be a fade or a marine does most of the work by himself. Yes, he has a team, but the one player's performance largely determines how the game will swing. And to the players that aren't as skilled... they helplessly have to follow the flow.
Perhaps I can only see this because I'm not one of the greatest players out there. Or maybe it's because I don't and never have participated in a clan match. But if you look from the eyes of a gamer who just plays occasionally, you might see some similarities.
What I'm saying today is that I understand I'm asking for something to be changed that coincidentally helps most of the people that will read this post. When blink was introduced, it gave a nudge-up to those skilled enough to use it. What I'm trying to do is talk about the times when NS wasn't as twitch-skill oriented, which it slowly is becoming to be. I'm one of those that believes that strategy isn't about how well it is executed, but what is chosen to be done. Instead of reading this and imagining how all the skill-based benefits will be removed, try to picture NS as a game where you can rely on each and every player.
Anyways... I feel that the NS community that you see on the forums regularly in particular is one of the best gamming communities on the planet.
If the post author is your stereotypical v1.04 veteran then I feel such people should be promptly ignored.
<u>Some sad observations</u>:<ul><li>Too few NS servers with half-decent pings and people playing them, and the ones that seem to have the most fun are the marine/alien trainers</li><li>Too few people playing on good servers, again so many people play combat.</li><li>Too few newbies that make the game a learing experience, and too many n00bs who refuse to learn</li><li>Too many ###### playing combat and too many seemingly deaf players in both NS and CO map types.</li><li>Limited good new content, new music, GOOD new maps (not more sucky CO and Seige maps), etc.</li><li>Too few people just wanting to play the game fun with trying to act in the immersion (did this on my server recently and it was great! we played until 8AM)</li></ul>
Hmm. The next logical step would be to fix the weaknesses, yes?
Hmm. The next logical step would be to fix the weaknesses, yes?
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the problems have been listed for so many times and if the dev team realized it and if they treat them seriously, this kind of thread wont be repeated for so many times. but sad this is not the truth and ns is moving more and more towards the commercial side. yes the next logical step is to fix, but if the dev team doesnt even want to move, what can we do?
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Those weaknesses lie in the players, stemming from the age of the game.
That applies to player's attitudes as well, there seems to be an overwhelming amount of players that are just combat oriented.
Not having enough players for classic all the time certainly is troublesome to those who remember when NS was just NS, and had no other labels.
Can't balance the players, only the game, I believe Flayra said that.
That applies to player's attitudes as well, there seems to be an overwhelming amount of players that are just combat oriented.
Not having enough players for classic all the time certainly is troublesome to those who remember when NS was just NS, and had no other labels.
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That was for the five minutes before people decided to make ns_supersiege007 servers.
My own personal reasons for getting in a bad mood every time I double click the NS icon on steam:
The servers. I'm really sick of all the sieges, co_, plugins, and all this other bullish. I'm especially sick of the players who only know to play in these plugin-infested ishholes. I'm sorry for sounding like a ######, but all these random ###### maps and plugins have killed public NS.
The players. Even after 4 years, hardly anyone even knows how to play NS. Hey it's 5 minutes into the game. Let's keep walking around aimlessly and let them have a second hive. The average skill level in NS is too low for any real competition to happen. The lower-skill players usually just harass the good players, instead of respecting them. Forced to play aliens because people haven't learned how to skulk yet? `exit
This makes for a pretty useless topic now, since nothing is really being discussed anymore. The players who can quit playing this game have already done so.
It's too bad that no matter how terrible the pub experience gets, you'll still play it. No matter how bad competitive NS gets, you'll still try to do something with it. List all the reasons that you want, voice your hatred for the condition that this game is in, and yet you'll still play it.
This makes for a pretty useless topic now, since nothing is really being discussed anymore. The players who can quit playing this game have already done so.
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Thats a valid point, and an extremely good one. The worst possible thing that you can do to Natural Selection is to stop playing it, and stop talking about it. I am slowly learning to do that, and as soon as I find another forum to become a regular in, I will stop visiting this forum (without any grand exits that I have made in past before).
Basically one has to accept that probably all of your intelligent ideas, balance issues, and other things that could potentially provide enhancements to the game will be ignored. Best thing to do is find a new game with your teams/communities and leave NS to the combat allstars, and the siege map specialists.
If you express yourself concisely and elaborately, some of your ideasl might get through even if you are just a regular player. However, unless you are willing to heavily invest in the people behind the game, you will mostly be shouting into the wind.
So, if you have a fortune and want to make something out of UWE, take it while it is still cheap (or alive).
When we did pub we would go hey lets play on this server. Only to hear Mak say hes banned on it. And repeat for the next 10 servers we listed.
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Yeah well G4B2S and BAD clan and Old F hate me so much that the admins have my steam ids and ip range written on their hands in sharpie. If you get above a 1:1 ratio they look at their palms and check to see who you are.
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It's too bad that no matter how terrible the pub experience gets, you'll still play it. No matter how bad competitive NS gets, you'll still try to do something with it. List all the reasons that you want, voice your hatred for the condition that this game is in, and yet you'll still play it.
This makes for a pretty useless topic now, since nothing is really being discussed anymore. The players who can quit playing this game have already done so.
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If there was one copy of NS left on a cd in a burning building about to collapase Darwin's Law and TheAdj would run in to save it.
But you have to find alternatives and 2 years ago I found the YO-Clan server again:
85.236.98.56:27015 #yo-clan | www.yoclan.com [Classic Only] v3.2b2
I'm a reg there and the community is nice and sticks to the basic spirit of NS <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />