remiremedy [blu.knight]Join Date: 2003-11-18Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
<!--quoteo(post=1757797:date=Mar 6 2010, 10:42 PM:name=Icejelly)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Icejelly @ Mar 6 2010, 10:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1757797"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Now don't you have a bridge to go back to? :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Cdiz0k0Rudw"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Cdiz0k0Rudw" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
Sorry. I agree with everything else you said. FocusedWolf is silly.
I've been researching axes since this came out on here. It looks like the time it would take to pull out the switch-ax in RL would be at least 40% slower than pulling out a knife.
Think about it. In a combat situation that 40% decrease could mean you would wake up dead.
<!--quoteo(post=1757787:date=Mar 7 2010, 04:42 PM:name=fuyuki359)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fuyuki359 @ Mar 7 2010, 04:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1757787"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Really? becuz last time I check we have a thing called chainsaw that cut down trees really fast. And you know just maybe, maybe in the future they would be smart enough to use that chop down ###### instead of using an axe<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> At least we can agree that both an axe or a chainsaw would be more appropriate for the job than a knife.
You know what would be great? That all the guns are foldable! From pistol and up. The HMG unfolds to a two-handed battleaxe and the flamethrower to a flaming two-handed battleaxe.
I haven't quite, uhm, digested the pistol-axe yet. It's a crazy idea. Can't wait to use it in-game. :)
I do not like the pistol's ejection mechanism. It's prone to cause injuries and violates several accident prevention procedures. Guess I have to live with that, tho.
The axe, hmmmm. Can I <a href="http://braindead.snafu-comics.com/?comic_id=34" target="_blank">throw it</a>? Or use the blade to cut, not whack stuff?
<!--QuoteBegin-UWE+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (UWE)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->While we had chosen the pistol with the more distinctive slanted back half, this posed problems in the believable functionality of the weapon. Since the pistol is firing standard ammunition, an empty shell needs to be ejected and a new one chambered with each shot, and the angled design, as well as the ammo counter screen on the back, made incorporating the typical slide mechanism present on most modern day pistols very problematic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Why? Why say this? I expected trying to justify NS2 universe on modern weaponry to come from certain *other* members, not from you guys.
If you wanted to put it in because it looks cool or w/e fine, but half the the weaponry in NS2 doesn't function "believably" - if you can make an LMG deploy out of a box, figuring out what to do with a spent casing is a nanite away.
Obviously I am not a fan of the luger design purely on the clash of aesthetics. There is a line between sci-future mechanical dirty-tech and polycarbonate WW2 Rube Goldberg machine. In my opinion, this pistol crossed it. However, I can see the slide blocking vision slightly when cocked up empty, which leads me to believe (hope) that perhaps it is more than just an aesthetic decision and perhaps the pistol-equivalent of muzzleflash?
As for the axe, I suppose I can only take solace in that it is single-bladed...
Personally I like it. But I've always been a fan of low tech sci-fi. If you use that convention, weapons tend to be bulkier and more advanced types of what is currently available. And giant space hulks for ships. Think "Aliens" and whatnot.
remiremedy [blu.knight]Join Date: 2003-11-18Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
edited March 2010
<!--quoteo(post=1757878:date=Mar 7 2010, 10:48 AM:name=Sops)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sops @ Mar 7 2010, 10:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1757878"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The pistol looks like its just waiting to bite a misplaced finger.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> From what I can tell, it is far less likely to bite your finger than a normal slide action pistol. With either type, you need to keep your fingers away from the shooting mechanism or suffer serious damage. If you watch how people hold a pistol, they are very careful to keep their fingers away from the slide. This would not be a worry to marines as they already would have been trained to do this, regardless of the type of pistol.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also goofy place to put a safety, I would just relabel it a take down level.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It is a weird place for the safety. Doesn't seem as accessible as they normally are. Normally they're right in the range so you could flip it with your thumb, i think.
Im all up for the pistol and the axe. Only thing wich is kinda meh to me. Is that the axe looks a little tiny to me. I mean im going on ships were we know theres some pretty tough armoured aliens. Id bring a bigger axe just to be sure.
It should be an axe that you cant dual wield with because the thing is just to heavy to dual wield. And have like a really slow hit ratio. So that when you miss you are kinda ######. But if you hit the skull should be knocked back by the power. Thats my vision on what the rines would ve done with an axe if the kharaa armoured up
<!--quoteo(post=1757893:date=Mar 7 2010, 04:58 PM:name=Scribbles)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scribbles @ Mar 7 2010, 04:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1757893"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think they're trying to make the melee weapon less effective for fighting aliens, and more effective for destroying structures.
That's why it doesn't look super badass. It's a backup tool, not a weapon of mass destruction.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Making the first hit more powerful does the opposite, so it sounds like it will be better for both uses. Then again maybe that will be more than counterbalanced by aliens being bulkier.
<!--quoteo(post=1757797:date=Mar 7 2010, 01:42 AM:name=Icejelly)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Icejelly @ Mar 7 2010, 01:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1757797"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2. The only thing that is in common between the Luger and the NS2 pistol is the firing mechanism. I fail to see how you can equate the chunky-ness that everyone's commenting on with your argument of a "super thin barrel attached to rest of this mess". You're not gonna end up being a WW2 German soldier shooting aliens in space in NS2. (Though custom modellers could make that come true for you)
Now don't you have a bridge to go back to? :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ya the untrained eye sees just the toggle-lock and quickly comes to a conclusion that this is the only feature of the luger which is being copied.
Lets start with the name listed on the top of the concept art...
Hmmmm the gun in NS2 is called P37!!!! I wonder if this is a blatant reference to the Walther P38, Which according to Wikipedia "The Walther P38 is a 9 mm pistol that was developed by Walther as the service pistol of the Wehrmacht (the name of the unified armed forces of Germany from 1935 to 1945) at the beginning of World War II. It was intended to replace the costly Luger P08, the production of which was scheduled to end in 1942".
Here's a picture of the Walther P38 for reference: <img src="http://www.efour4ever.com/p38.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
On a side note, this proves that even the ###### Nazis came to realize the toggle-lock action was overly engineered CRAP.
Omfg it's a NS2 pistol magazine in reallife!!! NO. it's a Walther P38 magazine!!! <img src="http://www.hoosiergunworks.com/images/walther_p-38_denmark.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
For sake of comparison, this is a picture of a luger magazine and you will see that the NS2 pistol is using a Walther P38 magazine instead: <img src="http://www.wwiiguns.com/store/images/luger_p08_limitededition_magazine_store_wwii_0702_003.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
My belief is the devs wanted to obfuscate the NS2 pistol by switching to an equally WW2 AND German, but less iconic, Walther P38 magazine so people could come to ###### conclusions like "The only thing that is in common between the Luger and the NS2 pistol is the firing mechanism". Nice try devs... it almost worked.
So 9mm is plainly listed at the top of the concept art as the caliber of the NS2 pistol. Same caliber as the Luger, and Walther P38.
This NS2 pistol is firing 9mm bullets from a single stack magazine like the luger and Walther P38.
The NS2 pistol magazine is angled and inserted to a very slanted pistol grip, which is making a pretty obvious resemblance with the lugers pistol grip and magazines angled shape.
Conclusion: 9mm + single stack magazine + slanted magazine fitting into a luger shaped pistol grip + toggle-lock action + P37 name similar to Nazi P38 + NS2 magazine very similar to Walther P38 magazine.
I count 6 ways the NS2 pistol is a luger with some Walther P38 features. Now do the devs want to continue saying that they just copied the toggle-lock action because they needed the mechanism? Because it's pretty damn obvious they they wanted that WW2 theme in a real bad (German) way. Time to question the guy that created the concept art for the NS2 pistol (he might be a Nazi)!
Edit: no it's 7.
<a href="http://z.about.com/d/hunting/1/0/G/J/walther_p38_03.jpg" target="_blank">http://z.about.com/d/hunting/1/0/G/J/walther_p38_03.jpg</a> <a href="http://www.airsoftpacific.com/photos/reviews/tanaka_luger_008.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.airsoftpacific.com/photos/revie...a_luger_008.jpg</a> The NS2 pistol uses either the Walther P38 sights, or a mix with the lugers low profile rear sight.
Edit: no it's 8 (Nice coincidence that there are 8 small equal-length segments to a swastika right) As shown in the concept art drawing for the NS2 pistol (i referenced it at the top of this post). On the bottom of that picture you will see the toggle-lock behaves EXACTLY like the luger when it comes to ejecting the fired brass, INCLUDING the added annoyance of opening up. Here is a video which shows the behavior in slow motion: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8C5Mjh4l54" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8C5Mjh4l54</a>
Of course if the gun locks in the open toggle-lock open position when empty then there will be 9 similarities.
EDIT: I took a second look at the image which we voted on a while back:
<img src="http://www.unknownworlds.com/cache/thumbnails/Pistol_thumbnailSketches_800x303.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> (All i remember from that vote was either 8 or 9 is what the majority voted for... 8 was my favorite... O FFS!!!! 8 has the same trigger guard as the Luger... seriously drop the Nazi-German-gun crap devs. Real men don't need gimmicky ammo counters on their weapons, they don't exist on any pistol in any Aliens related media, Judge Dredd's pistol didn't have one, and the HMG better not be a MG42! lol).
I don't think it's much of a stretch to say #5 was asking us how much we like the "Mauser C-96 model 712".
Normally i'd say #5 was based on a Tek9, but because of all the German in the NS2 pistol, i don't believe the Tek9 inspired #5.
Reference image of Tek9: <a href="http://www.law-17.com/images/tek9.JPG" target="_blank">http://www.law-17.com/images/tek9.JPG</a>
----------------------------
Ok because of this established Nazi gun theme, i started looking at the game differently. For example,<u><b> why black armor</b></u> as the <u><b>"special" elite edition</b></u>? Why not something that would be useful like some sort of DIGITAL PATTERNED CAMOUFLAGE... Perhaps this is why:
(Black armor distinguishes the "special" (by more $ to pre-order and implying veteran/fan ... can i say "officer" players of the community) from the regular green grunts right?)
<img src="http://ssl.sync.jp/sproutoy/images/products/SPDID01001_image.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> *cough*sausage licking crouts!*cough* equals special edition black uniforms! *cough*
Now this may just be the only thing that is circumstantial at best:
Starting to see similarities to a swastika there. For example, 6 bars total... If you took 6 pencils and laid them out, you could create a swastika shape so this is possibly just a coincidence. Another way to make a swastika from the shapes in the TSA logo is if you take the really long piece and give it a bend to form the "S" shape, and then you only need exactly 4 little pieces (which are available) to make the little "L" shaped pieces to complete the swastika shape.
I tried to see if i could find a WW2 German knife with a blood groove like shown in the logo. Couldn't find it in any German officer or Hitler youth knives, but i thought about it for a second and i thought maybe a German bayonet would possess this feature:
I'm trying to present the evidence as-is. I did check and the KA-BAR fighting knife (with the obvious iconic associations with the USMC) does not meet the blade profile of the TSA knife: <a href="http://positiveselfdefense.com/images/kbar1217.jpg" target="_blank">http://positiveselfdefense.com/images/kbar1217.jpg</a>
Also a WW2 M1 Garand bayonet is very similiar to the German one: <a href="http://www.gilmoreengineering.com/images/Danish%20Bayo%201a%20Web.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.gilmoreengineering.com/images/D...%201a%20Web.jpg</a>
For sake of thoroughness, this is the Korean war variation of the M1 Garand bayonet: <a href="http://www.usmilitaryknives.com/5-11.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.usmilitaryknives.com/5-11.jpg</a>
So the best conclusion i can make on this subject is: 1. The TSA logo definatelly depicts a bayonet of some kind. 2. I lost count of how many German Nazi WW2 references there are so it's most likely, but not conclusively, a German bayonet in the TSA logo. Makes sense since the TSA marines have no officers. They are all soldiers.
BTW, if the NS2 flamethrower looks anything like the following then i think you all will know the truth about NS: <a href="http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/portft/german_wwii_ww2_flamethrower_model41.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/portft/...wer_model41.jpg</a> <a href="http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/portft/german_wwii_ww2_flamethrower_model42.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/portft/...wer_model42.jpg</a>
My theory for this is the devs are trying to make the TSA appear "evil"... or just as evil as the aliens they fight. To say this another way, they didn't want the marines to be the "good guys".
But as a non-gun-nut, I seriously cannot understand what the hoo-haa is about the pistol.
So it has taken elements from guns other than your pet gun (1911a1 from what I can gather), big deal.
Are the frontiersmen gonna whip out their gun ingame and go, "Oh damn Nazi guns! I can't use them! My great-great-great-great-...-great nana was kilt in the war! I refuse to use them!"
Are they going to get cramps due to the poor egronomics of the gun, or unable to reload properly due to poor design? No!
Bottom line is, the game's not going to play any different just because the gun wasn't designed the way you imagined it to be. It's still going to function according to the game coding, not how the model looks/animates.
What I see here is an argument for the sake of arguing.
Chill mate, chill. Don't get all hot under the collar just because the devs only mentioned the most obvious design feature that was used in the NS2 pistol. Nobody (else?) is going to care if the gun has more than 1 WW2 reference. They're going to play the game, shoot some aliens, spank some gorgies. The only time they are gonna look at the pistol is to check the ammo counter.
I hope the game has support for custom models, because it will adequately answer all the issues the vocal minority has about the looks of the weapons (eg. curve-bladed 2.sec, absolutely futurist hand-cannon for sidearm, 1911a1-replica for pumping some bullets into kharaa WW2-Allies-style).
Plus, I'm looking forward to shooting some scorpians that hovar w/o flappign myself. :D
Yeah no one cares if this gun looks like a luger. I'd prefer something different than the normal old .45 and combat knife, which is why I'm really excited that the devs have come up with an axe and a crazy luger looking pistol. It shows UWE is trying to be creative and interesting, instead of average and solid.
If I want average and solid I can play CSS and enjoy some good ol cookie cutter guns. I'd probably find wolf there, since all he seems to care about is boring stock m4s and .45s.
<!--quoteo(post=1757953:date=Mar 8 2010, 03:34 AM:name=celewign)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (celewign @ Mar 8 2010, 03:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1757953"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah no one cares if this gun looks like a luger. I'd prefer something different than the normal old .45 and combat knife, which is why I'm really excited that the devs have come up with an axe and a crazy luger looking pistol. It shows UWE is trying to be creative and interesting, instead of average and solid.
If I want average and solid I can play CSS and enjoy some good ol cookie cutter guns. I'd probably find wolf there, since all he seems to care about is boring stock m4s and .45s.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Heh, back a long time a go when I did play some CSS I actually replaced the Deagle with Mauser C96 skin, it was pretty cool.
I didn't particularly like either of these new designs. In the big picture that really won't matter very much, since the game once finally released will probably be very fun.
<!--quoteo(post=1757953:date=Mar 7 2010, 10:34 PM:name=celewign)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (celewign @ Mar 7 2010, 10:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1757953"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If I want average and solid I can play CSS and enjoy some good ol cookie cutter guns. I'd probably find wolf there, since all he seems to care about is boring stock m4s and .45s.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not true. I'm a big fan of anything made by H&K, S&W, FNH, Benelli etc. and the 1911 is a classic appreciated by... can i say the world? Well most of the world lol. I've already asked that NS2 feature a revolver during a few occasions... maybe one that's loaded with 12 guage shotgun shells.
The purpose of that post was to show that the devs have an almost unhealthy appreciation for German WW2 pistols. :P
The purpose of my post, earlier in this thread, was to show the NS2 Axe is made by Gerber <a href="http://www.iwishihadthis.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/kick-axe.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.iwishihadthis.com/wp-content/up...02/kick-axe.jpg</a>
(i hope the devs use my idea of offering that axe as a prize for mapping contests or something lol)
Comments
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Sorry. I agree with everything else you said. FocusedWolf is silly.
/plea for more skins, etc. for special edition preorders.
I've been researching axes since this came out on here. It looks like the time it would take to pull out the switch-ax in RL would be at least 40% slower than pulling out a knife.
Think about it. In a combat situation that 40% decrease could mean you would wake up dead.
...seriously GUYS.
DISCUSS
At least we can agree that both an axe or a chainsaw would be more appropriate for the job than a knife.
I haven't quite, uhm, digested the pistol-axe yet. It's a crazy idea. Can't wait to use it in-game. :)
The axe, hmmmm. Can I <a href="http://braindead.snafu-comics.com/?comic_id=34" target="_blank">throw it</a>? Or use the blade to cut, not whack stuff?
I think I prefer a knife...
Lets take this RT down. :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now that would be sick. lol
Why? Why say this? I expected trying to justify NS2 universe on modern weaponry to come from certain *other* members, not from you guys.
If you wanted to put it in because it looks cool or w/e fine, but half the the weaponry in NS2 doesn't function "believably" - if you can make an LMG deploy out of a box, figuring out what to do with a spent casing is a nanite away.
Obviously I am not a fan of the luger design purely on the clash of aesthetics. There is a line between sci-future mechanical dirty-tech and polycarbonate WW2 Rube Goldberg machine. In my opinion, this pistol crossed it. However, I can see the slide blocking vision slightly when cocked up empty, which leads me to believe (hope) that perhaps it is more than just an aesthetic decision and perhaps the pistol-equivalent of muzzleflash?
As for the axe, I suppose I can only take solace in that it is single-bladed...
indeed, you best to pedal faster
Devs say "its first blow is of comparable speed, a" I hope that it really doesn't take two seconds for it to come out
From what I can tell, it is far less likely to bite your finger than a normal slide action pistol. With either type, you need to keep your fingers away from the shooting mechanism or suffer serious damage. If you watch how people hold a pistol, they are very careful to keep their fingers away from the slide. This would not be a worry to marines as they already would have been trained to do this, regardless of the type of pistol.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also goofy place to put a safety, I would just relabel it a take down level.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is a weird place for the safety. Doesn't seem as accessible as they normally are. Normally they're right in the range so you could flip it with your thumb, i think.
That's why it doesn't look super badass. It's a backup tool, not a weapon of mass destruction.
I mean im going on ships were we know theres some pretty tough armoured aliens. Id bring a bigger axe just to be sure.
It should be an axe that you cant dual wield with because the thing is just to heavy to dual wield. And have like a really slow hit ratio. So that when you miss you are kinda ######. But if you hit the skull should be knocked back by the power. Thats my vision on what the rines would ve done with an axe if the kharaa armoured up
That's why it doesn't look super badass. It's a backup tool, not a weapon of mass destruction.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Making the first hit more powerful does the opposite, so it sounds like it will be better for both uses. Then again maybe that will be more than counterbalanced by aliens being bulkier.
<b>Chainsaws</b>
Also why not light sabers?
Now don't you have a bridge to go back to? :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ya the untrained eye sees just the toggle-lock and quickly comes to a conclusion that this is the only feature of the luger which is being copied.
Lets start with the name listed on the top of the concept art...
<img src="http://www.unknownworlds.com/cache/thumbnails/Pistol_800x512.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Hmmmm the gun in NS2 is called P37!!!! I wonder if this is a blatant reference to the Walther P38, Which according to Wikipedia "The Walther P38 is a 9 mm pistol that was developed by Walther as the service pistol of the Wehrmacht (the name of the unified armed forces of Germany from 1935 to 1945) at the beginning of World War II. It was intended to replace the costly Luger P08, the production of which was scheduled to end in 1942".
Here's a picture of the Walther P38 for reference:
<img src="http://www.efour4ever.com/p38.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
On a side note, this proves that even the ###### Nazis came to realize the toggle-lock action was overly engineered CRAP.
Omfg it's a NS2 pistol magazine in reallife!!! NO. it's a Walther P38 magazine!!!
<img src="http://www.hoosiergunworks.com/images/walther_p-38_denmark.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
For sake of comparison, this is a picture of a luger magazine and you will see that the NS2 pistol is using a Walther P38 magazine instead:
<img src="http://www.wwiiguns.com/store/images/luger_p08_limitededition_magazine_store_wwii_0702_003.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
My belief is the devs wanted to obfuscate the NS2 pistol by switching to an equally WW2 AND German, but less iconic, Walther P38 magazine so people could come to ###### conclusions like "The only thing that is in common between the Luger and the NS2 pistol is the firing mechanism". Nice try devs... it almost worked.
So 9mm is plainly listed at the top of the concept art as the caliber of the NS2 pistol. Same caliber as the Luger, and Walther P38.
This NS2 pistol is firing 9mm bullets from a single stack magazine like the luger and Walther P38.
The NS2 pistol magazine is angled and inserted to a very slanted pistol grip, which is making a pretty obvious resemblance with the lugers pistol grip and magazines angled shape.
<img src="http://www.freewebs.com/raf-ss/Luger.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Conclusion: 9mm + single stack magazine + slanted magazine fitting into a luger shaped pistol grip + toggle-lock action + P37 name similar to Nazi P38 + NS2 magazine very similar to Walther P38 magazine.
I count 6 ways the NS2 pistol is a luger with some Walther P38 features. Now do the devs want to continue saying that they just copied the toggle-lock action because they needed the mechanism? Because it's pretty damn obvious they they wanted that WW2 theme in a real bad (German) way. Time to question the guy that created the concept art for the NS2 pistol (he might be a Nazi)!
Edit: no it's 7.
<a href="http://z.about.com/d/hunting/1/0/G/J/walther_p38_03.jpg" target="_blank">http://z.about.com/d/hunting/1/0/G/J/walther_p38_03.jpg</a>
<a href="http://www.airsoftpacific.com/photos/reviews/tanaka_luger_008.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.airsoftpacific.com/photos/revie...a_luger_008.jpg</a>
The NS2 pistol uses either the Walther P38 sights, or a mix with the lugers low profile rear sight.
Edit: no it's 8 (Nice coincidence that there are 8 small equal-length segments to a swastika right) As shown in the concept art drawing for the NS2 pistol (i referenced it at the top of this post). On the bottom of that picture you will see the toggle-lock behaves EXACTLY like the luger when it comes to ejecting the fired brass, INCLUDING the added annoyance of opening up. Here is a video which shows the behavior in slow motion: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8C5Mjh4l54" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8C5Mjh4l54</a>
Of course if the gun locks in the open toggle-lock open position when empty then there will be 9 similarities.
EDIT: I took a second look at the image which we voted on a while back:
<img src="http://www.unknownworlds.com/cache/thumbnails/Pistol_thumbnailSketches_800x303.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
(All i remember from that vote was either 8 or 9 is what the majority voted for... 8 was my favorite... O FFS!!!! 8 has the same trigger guard as the Luger... seriously drop the Nazi-German-gun crap devs. Real men don't need gimmicky ammo counters on their weapons, they don't exist on any pistol in any Aliens related media, Judge Dredd's pistol didn't have one, and the HMG better not be a MG42! lol).
I don't think it's much of a stretch to say #5 was asking us how much we like the "Mauser C-96 model 712".
<img src="http://world.guns.ru/handguns/mauser_c96_712.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Normally i'd say #5 was based on a Tek9, but because of all the German in the NS2 pistol, i don't believe the Tek9 inspired #5.
Reference image of Tek9:
<a href="http://www.law-17.com/images/tek9.JPG" target="_blank">http://www.law-17.com/images/tek9.JPG</a>
----------------------------
Ok because of this established Nazi gun theme, i started looking at the game differently. For example,<u><b> why black armor</b></u> as the <u><b>"special" elite edition</b></u>? Why not something that would be useful like some sort of DIGITAL PATTERNED CAMOUFLAGE... Perhaps this is why:
(Black armor distinguishes the "special" (by more $ to pre-order and implying veteran/fan ... can i say "officer" players of the community) from the regular green grunts right?)
<img src="http://ssl.sync.jp/sproutoy/images/products/SPDID01001_image.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
*cough*sausage licking crouts!*cough* equals special edition black uniforms! *cough*
Now this may just be the only thing that is circumstantial at best:
<img src="http://www.unitedworlds.co.uk/online-gaming/tsa.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Starting to see similarities to a swastika there. For example, 6 bars total... If you took 6 pencils and laid them out, you could create a swastika shape so this is possibly just a coincidence. Another way to make a swastika from the shapes in the TSA logo is if you take the really long piece and give it a bend to form the "S" shape, and then you only need exactly 4 little pieces (which are available) to make the little "L" shaped pieces to complete the swastika shape.
I tried to see if i could find a WW2 German knife with a blood groove like shown in the logo. Couldn't find it in any German officer or Hitler youth knives, but i thought about it for a second and i thought maybe a German bayonet would possess this feature:
K98 Mauser bayonet:
<img src="http://www.thehistorybunker.co.uk/acatalog/K98.ht4.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I'm trying to present the evidence as-is. I did check and the KA-BAR fighting knife (with the obvious iconic associations with the USMC) does not meet the blade profile of the TSA knife: <a href="http://positiveselfdefense.com/images/kbar1217.jpg" target="_blank">http://positiveselfdefense.com/images/kbar1217.jpg</a>
Also a WW2 M1 Garand bayonet is very similiar to the German one: <a href="http://www.gilmoreengineering.com/images/Danish%20Bayo%201a%20Web.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.gilmoreengineering.com/images/D...%201a%20Web.jpg</a>
For sake of thoroughness, this is the Korean war variation of the M1 Garand bayonet: <a href="http://www.usmilitaryknives.com/5-11.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.usmilitaryknives.com/5-11.jpg</a>
So the best conclusion i can make on this subject is:
1. The TSA logo definatelly depicts a bayonet of some kind.
2. I lost count of how many German Nazi WW2 references there are so it's most likely, but not conclusively, a German bayonet in the TSA logo. Makes sense since the TSA marines have no officers. They are all soldiers.
BTW, if the NS2 flamethrower looks anything like the following then i think you all will know the truth about NS:
<a href="http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/portft/german_wwii_ww2_flamethrower_model41.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/portft/...wer_model41.jpg</a>
<a href="http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/portft/german_wwii_ww2_flamethrower_model42.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/portft/...wer_model42.jpg</a>
My theory for this is the devs are trying to make the TSA appear "evil"... or just as evil as the aliens they fight. To say this another way, they didn't want the marines to be the "good guys".
But as a non-gun-nut, I seriously cannot understand what the hoo-haa is about the pistol.
So it has taken elements from guns other than your pet gun (1911a1 from what I can gather), big deal.
Are the frontiersmen gonna whip out their gun ingame and go, "Oh damn Nazi guns! I can't use them! My great-great-great-great-...-great nana was kilt in the war! I refuse to use them!"
Are they going to get cramps due to the poor egronomics of the gun, or unable to reload properly due to poor design? No!
Bottom line is, the game's not going to play any different just because the gun wasn't designed the way you imagined it to be. It's still going to function according to the game coding, not how the model looks/animates.
What I see here is an argument for the sake of arguing.
Chill mate, chill. Don't get all hot under the collar just because the devs only mentioned the most obvious design feature that was used in the NS2 pistol. Nobody (else?) is going to care if the gun has more than 1 WW2 reference. They're going to play the game, shoot some aliens, spank some gorgies. The only time they are gonna look at the pistol is to check the ammo counter.
I hope the game has support for custom models, because it will adequately answer all the issues the vocal minority has about the looks of the weapons (eg. curve-bladed 2.sec, absolutely futurist hand-cannon for sidearm, 1911a1-replica for pumping some bullets into kharaa WW2-Allies-style).
Plus, I'm looking forward to shooting some scorpians that hovar w/o flappign myself. :D
If I want average and solid I can play CSS and enjoy some good ol cookie cutter guns. I'd probably find wolf there, since all he seems to care about is boring stock m4s and .45s.
If I want average and solid I can play CSS and enjoy some good ol cookie cutter guns. I'd probably find wolf there, since all he seems to care about is boring stock m4s and .45s.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Heh, back a long time a go when I did play some CSS I actually replaced the Deagle with Mauser C96 skin, it was pretty cool.
Not true. I'm a big fan of anything made by H&K, S&W, FNH, Benelli etc. and the 1911 is a classic appreciated by... can i say the world? Well most of the world lol. I've already asked that NS2 feature a revolver during a few occasions... maybe one that's loaded with 12 guage shotgun shells.
The purpose of that post was to show that the devs have an almost unhealthy appreciation for German WW2 pistols. :P
The purpose of my post, earlier in this thread, was to show the NS2 Axe is made by Gerber <a href="http://www.iwishihadthis.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/kick-axe.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.iwishihadthis.com/wp-content/up...02/kick-axe.jpg</a>
(i hope the devs use my idea of offering that axe as a prize for mapping contests or something lol)