[quote name='Dirty_Harry_Potter' date='Mar 24 2010, 05:26 PM' post='1761024'] a) This is entertaining (and a good newbie introduction to Starcraft multiplayer gameplay I suppose) <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92Rv-s-7rNk" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92Rv-s-7rNk</a>
This guy is really funny. The commentary is brilliant. :D
I was definitely deceived by SC2. I guess it's mainly because I'm an average RTS player at best (and bad at SCI) but I felt as if I already played the game 10 years ago.
AbraWould you kindlyJoin Date: 2003-08-17Member: 19870Members
<!--quoteo(post=1761069:date=Mar 24 2010, 11:04 PM:name=Cereal_KillR)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cereal_KillR @ Mar 24 2010, 11:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1761069"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I was definitely deceived by SC2. I guess it's mainly because I'm an average RTS player at best (and bad at SCI) but I felt as if I already played the game 10 years ago.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I hope this didn't really come as a suprise to you, and that you are just being internet silly.
I don't see why this would have been obvious, does WCIII play like WCII? There are a number of changes in SC2 compared to SC1, but none felt to me as being really major. Then again, I'm not that great at the game.
At this point it's really hard to say. SC1 had a lot of different strategies that allowed a player to be effective at whatever role they wanted no matter what the race. SC2 doesn't feel like that, but then again, the beta has been out for a month and SC1 has been out for 10 years.
I keep seeing the same handful of units and the same couple of strategies per race every game and I'm not thrilled that it's so easy to turtle in this game.
<!--quoteo(post=1761075:date=Mar 24 2010, 10:51 PM:name=SentrySteve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SentrySteve @ Mar 24 2010, 10:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1761075"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I keep seeing the same handful of units and the same couple of strategies per race every game and I'm not thrilled that it's so easy to turtle in this game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If someone turtles, you take over the map and get a huge economy so them turtling really doesn't matter.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i have found a problem with zerg. they have absolutely no tier 1 AA. terran has marines, toss has stalkers, the earliest AA zerg has is hydras or mutas, which require a hatchery upgrade and another tech building, a minimum of 3 buildings. since zerg's power lies in it's speed to get a force, this focus on teching usually promises a loss for zerg. if they don't tech up quickly then they can get taken out by a minimal air force by another team that can focus on teching more ably, like terran who can turtle.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is stupid. IF someone is fast teching to air then they have next to no ground army so you attack and win (or at the very least delay their air coming out). If they're not fast teching to air but you still get beaten by air then <b>you're doing it wrong</b>. You're either teching way too slow (and I find zerg are kind of easy to tech with since they only have one unit producing structure, it's both a curse and a blessing at times) or being an idiot about it.
Worst comes to worst build a couple of spore crawlers in your base...
Also, SC2 feels more like WC3 than SC1 to me but I think it's the UI that's largely responsible for that.
<!--quoteo(post=1761079:date=Mar 24 2010, 07:14 PM:name=Jimmeh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jimmeh @ Mar 24 2010, 07:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1761079"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If someone turtles, you take over the map and get a huge economy so them turtling really doesn't matter.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In a normal RTS you would but I've found that to be the opposite in this game. People turtle to survive the initial rush stage and to prevent scouting. No one turtles indefinitely. If the player is skilled they move out at the most opportune time to kill you. Since you've wasted money on expo's you can't combat his army at nine minutes into the game.
The only counter I've discovered to this strategy is to do the exact same thing. Unfortunately, it's incredibly effective especially if the other player does expand.
<!--quoteo(post=1761080:date=Mar 24 2010, 11:26 PM:name=SentrySteve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SentrySteve @ Mar 24 2010, 11:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1761080"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In a normal RTS you would but I've found that to be the opposite in this game. People turtle to survive the initial rush stage and to prevent scouting. No one turtles indefinitely. If the player is skilled they move out at the most opportune time to kill you. Since you've wasted money on expo's you can't combat his army at nine minutes into the game.
The only counter I've discovered to this strategy is to do the exact same thing. Unfortunately, it's incredibly effective especially if the other player does expand.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mess around with expansion timings. I've been having a ton of problems expanding myself due to the reason you've said, but I've been experimenting around with when to expand (and losing a lot because of it) and have found my own suitable timings of when to expand based on army composition. For example (I play Terran btw), I like to fast tech to ghosts vs protoss (1 rax -> double gas -> 2 rax-> ghost academy roughly),push out the moment my ghost has got enough energy for EMP and expand at the same time. I've found that if I do this right I can get there before he has colossi or too many immortals, wipe out most of his army negating any counter-attack, and in the mean time I'm teching up to vikings and rebuilding my army to defend vs colossi/immortals/anything else.
omg!!! Just got off the most epic 2v2 Random game i have ever had!!. Terran - Terran vs Protoss Protoss. Obv in random you get put with crap players.. lol but anyways he dies with in the first 5 min. Both Protoss guys rush void rays..which anyone knows marines own them!! game dragged out to be about hr and a half long. 1 v 2
ended up controlling the resources on the map. scouted if they tried to expand(attacked when they did). While building my force.. ended up winning in the end..out of resourses.
god damn amazing game..
if i learned anything from this. Its Scouting can defiantly alone win you games!!!. You need to do it.
Love the rush after u win. 1v2 ..and the guy was on the gold ladder for 2v2...that was even better..
<!--quoteo(post=1761115:date=Mar 25 2010, 12:29 AM:name=tigersmith)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tigersmith @ Mar 25 2010, 12:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1761115"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->if i learned anything from this. Its Scouting can defiantly alone win you games!!!. You need to do it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah. Knowing more about your opponents almost never hurts. Unless you've already lost so far that you can't do crap. Or you're inexperienced and don't know what the proper counter is. But it sounds like you've got it down.
<!--quoteo(post=1761033:date=Mar 24 2010, 06:00 PM:name=tigersmith)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tigersmith @ Mar 24 2010, 06:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1761033"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->btw always seems like imgetting smoked by zerg in 2v2. roaches are soo op right now in it :(<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What race do you play? If you're Zerg, build more roaches, Terran get Maurauders, Protoss get immortals.
<!--quoteo(post=1761120:date=Mar 25 2010, 07:20 AM:name=Zaggy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zaggy @ Mar 25 2010, 07:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1761120"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What race do you play? If you're Zerg, build more roaches, Terran get Maurauders, Protoss get immortals.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Its not always that easy. Its not that hard to counter those units.
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1761122:date=Mar 25 2010, 03:48 AM:name=xmaine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xmaine @ Mar 25 2010, 03:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1761122"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Its not always that easy. Its not that hard to counter those units.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The point is that they are the counter for roaches atm.
<!--quoteo(post=1761120:date=Mar 25 2010, 03:20 AM:name=Zaggy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zaggy @ Mar 25 2010, 03:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1761120"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What race do you play? If you're Zerg, build more roaches, Terran get Maurauders, Protoss get immortals.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I play terran, but anyways even if i rush marauders by the time i have 2 up they have 6-7 roaches at my door step. and on top of that even when i hold them off with my wall that obv terrans should build they burrow and regen soo damn fast :(
but...anyways when you get enough marauders you need to micro a ######load in order for them to kill them.
Best way to counter Roaches..rush base with like 5-6 marines at the start and by yourself time.
puzl, did you ever see any of Tasteless' and superdanielman's casts from GOMTV.net ? I cannot wait until those guys start broadcasting SC2, by <b>far</b> my favourite eSports commentators.
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
No, can't say I ever did. I played SC2 a bit when it first came out, but had given up by the broodwars came around and only had a brief look at that. The prevalence of big game hunter type maps at the LANs I used to attent completely turned me off SC.
I have to say, despite my ubernubiness, I'm thoroughly enjoying SC2. As a clueless newb I initally got into a copper league, but now I'm consistently in the top 8 on my ladder, so I hope to get placed in bronze or silver when they reset the database.
<!--quoteo(post=1761150:date=Mar 25 2010, 10:22 AM:name=puzl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (puzl @ Mar 25 2010, 10:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1761150"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No, can't say I ever did. I played SC2 a bit when it first came out, but had given up by the broodwars came around and only had a brief look at that. The prevalence of big game hunter type maps at the LANs I used to attent completely turned me off SC.
I have to say, despite my ubernubiness, I'm thoroughly enjoying SC2. As a clueless newb I initally got into a copper league, but now I'm consistently in the top 8 on my ladder, so I hope to get placed in bronze or silver when they reset the database.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
im in copper league in 2v2 cant believe im getting matched 24/7 with people in plat for 2v2..its soo damn sad. i usally can defend myself well but my partner always dies in the first 5 min..so im screwd. i wanna play people in copper and bronze until i get better
<!--quoteo(post=1761149:date=Mar 25 2010, 02:19 PM:name=marks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (marks @ Mar 25 2010, 02:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1761149"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->puzl, did you ever see any of Tasteless' and superdanielman's casts from GOMTV.net ? I cannot wait until those guys start broadcasting SC2, by <b>far</b> my favourite eSports commentators.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
"HEY IT'S TASTELESS CHECK OUT WWW.THEHANDSOMENERD.COM SCREW TALKING ABOUT THE GAME LET'S TALK ABOUT WWW.THEHANDSOMENERD.COM oh look some things are dying BUT WWW.THEHANDSOMENERD.COM"
I really don't get the love for Tasteless. I love SDM though
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1761156:date=Mar 25 2010, 02:58 PM:name=tigersmith)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tigersmith @ Mar 25 2010, 02:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1761156"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->did u add me yett its ok if ur in copper :D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1761161:date=Mar 25 2010, 03:48 PM:name=Jimmeh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jimmeh @ Mar 25 2010, 03:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1761161"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I really don't get the love for Tasteless.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I guess you havent listened to many of the casts? He is awesome at casting, he has a hugely deep knowledge of the game and makes it exciting to listen to. If you've ever listened to a shoutcast by someone like ReDeYe or or Tosspot then the difference is instantly noticeable. Ironically, QuadV (the company ReDeYe and Tosspot work for iirc) cast all the major tournaments for various games, and a lot of their commentators suck in comparison to Tasteless.
<!--quoteo(post=1761181:date=Mar 25 2010, 06:36 PM:name=marks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (marks @ Mar 25 2010, 06:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1761181"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I guess you havent listened to many of the casts? He is awesome at casting, he has a hugely deep knowledge of the game and makes it exciting to listen to. If you've ever listened to a shoutcast by someone like ReDeYe or or Tosspot then the difference is instantly noticeable. Ironically, QuadV (the company ReDeYe and Tosspot work for iirc) cast all the major tournaments for various games, and a lot of their commentators suck in comparison to Tasteless.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I watched 2/3 Gom.tv tournaments and all the TSL2 casts.
He's a good colour commentator. He does a good job of getting people excited and stuff and he does know quite a lot. It's just when he casts he talks 75% about random crap about himself and 25% about the game. From what I've heard he also only does things entirely for money and then expects people to things for him for free which is another reason why I dislike him.
Comments
a) This is entertaining (and a good newbie introduction to Starcraft multiplayer gameplay I suppose)
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92Rv-s-7rNk" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92Rv-s-7rNk</a>
This guy is really funny. The commentary is brilliant. :D
I hope this didn't really come as a suprise to you, and that you are just being internet silly.
I keep seeing the same handful of units and the same couple of strategies per race every game and I'm not thrilled that it's so easy to turtle in this game.
If someone turtles, you take over the map and get a huge economy so them turtling really doesn't matter.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i have found a problem with zerg. they have absolutely no tier 1 AA. terran has marines, toss has stalkers, the earliest AA zerg has is hydras or mutas, which require a hatchery upgrade and another tech building, a minimum of 3 buildings. since zerg's power lies in it's speed to get a force, this focus on teching usually promises a loss for zerg. if they don't tech up quickly then they can get taken out by a minimal air force by another team that can focus on teching more ably, like terran who can turtle.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is stupid. IF someone is fast teching to air then they have next to no ground army so you attack and win (or at the very least delay their air coming out). If they're not fast teching to air but you still get beaten by air then <b>you're doing it wrong</b>. You're either teching way too slow (and I find zerg are kind of easy to tech with since they only have one unit producing structure, it's both a curse and a blessing at times) or being an idiot about it.
Worst comes to worst build a couple of spore crawlers in your base...
Also, SC2 feels more like WC3 than SC1 to me but I think it's the UI that's largely responsible for that.
In a normal RTS you would but I've found that to be the opposite in this game. People turtle to survive the initial rush stage and to prevent scouting. No one turtles indefinitely. If the player is skilled they move out at the most opportune time to kill you. Since you've wasted money on expo's you can't combat his army at nine minutes into the game.
The only counter I've discovered to this strategy is to do the exact same thing. Unfortunately, it's incredibly effective especially if the other player does expand.
The only counter I've discovered to this strategy is to do the exact same thing. Unfortunately, it's incredibly effective especially if the other player does expand.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mess around with expansion timings. I've been having a ton of problems expanding myself due to the reason you've said, but I've been experimenting around with when to expand (and losing a lot because of it) and have found my own suitable timings of when to expand based on army composition. For example (I play Terran btw), I like to fast tech to ghosts vs protoss (1 rax -> double gas -> 2 rax-> ghost academy roughly),push out the moment my ghost has got enough energy for EMP and expand at the same time. I've found that if I do this right I can get there before he has colossi or too many immortals, wipe out most of his army negating any counter-attack, and in the mean time I'm teching up to vikings and rebuilding my army to defend vs colossi/immortals/anything else.
I recommend you watch (good) commentators play and review your replays if you want to get better. Otherwise just rush Colossus, it's fun I hear.
ended up controlling the resources on the map. scouted if they tried to expand(attacked when they did). While building my force.. ended up winning in the end..out of resourses.
god damn amazing game..
if i learned anything from this. Its Scouting can defiantly alone win you games!!!. You need to do it.
Love the rush after u win. 1v2 ..and the guy was on the gold ladder for 2v2...that was even better..
wow. night everyone
add me on sc2 tigersmith.pro
Yeah. Knowing more about your opponents almost never hurts. Unless you've already lost so far that you can't do crap. Or you're inexperienced and don't know what the proper counter is. But it sounds like you've got it down.
What race do you play? If you're Zerg, build more roaches, Terran get Maurauders, Protoss get immortals.
Its not always that easy. Its not that hard to counter those units.
The point is that they are the counter for roaches atm.
I play terran, but anyways even if i rush marauders by the time i have 2 up they have 6-7 roaches at my door step. and on top of that even when i hold them off with my wall that obv terrans should build they burrow and regen soo damn fast :(
but...anyways when you get enough marauders you need to micro a ######load in order for them to kill them.
Best way to counter Roaches..rush base with like 5-6 marines at the start and by yourself time.
Check out the shoutcraft series he is doing too
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3Vn5vo202w" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3Vn5vo202w</a>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FjbLwtuW-M" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FjbLwtuW-M</a>
I have to say, despite my ubernubiness, I'm thoroughly enjoying SC2. As a clueless newb I initally got into a copper league, but now I'm consistently in the top 8 on my ladder, so I hope to get placed in bronze or silver when they reset the database.
I have to say, despite my ubernubiness, I'm thoroughly enjoying SC2. As a clueless newb I initally got into a copper league, but now I'm consistently in the top 8 on my ladder, so I hope to get placed in bronze or silver when they reset the database.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
did u add me yett its ok if ur in copper :D
"HEY IT'S TASTELESS CHECK OUT WWW.THEHANDSOMENERD.COM SCREW TALKING ABOUT THE GAME LET'S TALK ABOUT WWW.THEHANDSOMENERD.COM oh look some things are dying BUT WWW.THEHANDSOMENERD.COM"
I really don't get the love for Tasteless. I love SDM though
I'm a euro, so I can't add you.
I guess you havent listened to many of the casts? He is awesome at casting, he has a hugely deep knowledge of the game and makes it exciting to listen to. If you've ever listened to a shoutcast by someone like ReDeYe or or Tosspot then the difference is instantly noticeable. Ironically, QuadV (the company ReDeYe and Tosspot work for iirc) cast all the major tournaments for various games, and a lot of their commentators suck in comparison to Tasteless.
I watched 2/3 Gom.tv tournaments and all the TSL2 casts.
He's a good colour commentator. He does a good job of getting people excited and stuff and he does know quite a lot. It's just when he casts he talks 75% about random crap about himself and 25% about the game. From what I've heard he also only does things entirely for money and then expects people to things for him for free which is another reason why I dislike him.
My favourite commentator is his brother.