<!--quoteo(post=1847601:date=May 20 2011, 01:59 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ May 20 2011, 01:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847601"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe he just turns invisible (like Cloak except better), and it has the side-effect of making his vision funky.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was suggesting that we should have air control goodness ns1 (post wall stuck fade) blink with a momentary cloak that gives it that nightcrawler aesthetic that UW <3s so much
<!--quoteo(post=1847652:date=May 20 2011, 10:32 PM:name=Codeine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Codeine @ May 20 2011, 10:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847652"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I dont like the direction gorges and hive commanders are going, its reducing the players needed in the front lines.
full game, might have 2 hive commanders and 2-3 gorges....that doesn't leave much to the front line heirachy compared to marines, is this a concern?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Apparently we don't care and alien comm is stubbornly here to stay. Makes me sad.
No, I'm saying: You hold down the right mouse button, you move in whatever direction you're facing. That direction could be straight up. That direction could be perpendicular to the direction you were facing when you first held down the button - so you would "curve". Basically, you're not just moving along the horizontal plane, and you're not just moving in straight lines.
<!--quoteo(post=1847652:date=May 21 2011, 01:32 PM:name=Codeine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Codeine @ May 21 2011, 01:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847652"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I dont like the direction gorges and hive commanders are going, its reducing the players needed in the front lines.
full game, might have 2 hive commanders and 2-3 gorges....that doesn't leave much to the front line heirachy compared to marines, is this a concern?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not a concern if you have front-line gorges.
<!--quoteo(post=1847621:date=May 20 2011, 06:19 PM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ May 20 2011, 06:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847621"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->medpack spam is overpowering because medpacks restore armor, thats just insane. One person can solo dozen of aliens simply being medpack spammed, your armor/health instantly restored, pretty overpowering.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo(post=1847630:date=May 20 2011, 07:19 PM:name=NurEinMensch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NurEinMensch @ May 20 2011, 07:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847630"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh yes and fix medpacks healing armor, that's just wrong.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, all player healing is dictated by the same function LiveMixin:AddHealth(), which does not currently have any parameter to specify whether it should restore armor or not. It's a quick enough fix; I've done it myself in one of my own projects.
<!--quoteo(post=1847587:date=May 20 2011, 05:52 PM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ May 20 2011, 05:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847587"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- Does this new implementation include the possibility that the fade can 'curve' when he blinks (if you move the mouse enough), so that it isn't always simply moving in a straight line. Because that would be pretty cool.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Basically, as I understand it, clicking the mouse button would automatically give you forward momentum. However, you can still control direction with WASD keys, and mouselook. So, yes, moving in a straight line or curve, and flying up into the air, should all be possible with the new planned Fade blink implementation.
<!--quoteo(post=1847710:date=May 21 2011, 03:51 PM:name=KuBaN)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KuBaN @ May 21 2011, 03:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847710"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah, all player healing is dictated by the same function LiveMixin:AddHealth(), which does not currently have any parameter to specify whether it should restore armor or not. It's a quick enough fix; I've done it myself in one of my own projects.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Interesting though is that function MedPack:GetPackRecipient() is only checking for health, not armor. So you don't pick up medpacks if you are at 100hp, however if your health is below 100hp health and armor is restored until you are at 100 hp. Is that intended or a bug?
<!--quoteo(post=1847716:date=May 21 2011, 10:22 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ May 21 2011, 10:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847716"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Basically, as I understand it, clicking the mouse button would automatically give you forward momentum. However, you can still control direction with WASD keys, and mouselook. So, yes, moving in a straight line or curve, and flying up into the air, should all be possible with the new planned Fade blink implementation.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As all good fades know, the high acceleration/movement speed of blink requires you to press/release/tap blink as necessary to precisely guide your position. Therefore, <!--coloro:yellow--><span style="color:yellow"><!--/coloro-->blink mode must be decoupled from forward momentum<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->.
Even though blink mode only lasts about 2000 ms, this is an eternity for a fast moving creature like the fade, and it must have precision controls.
Here are 2 options:
1) If mouse click controls blink/stealth mode, and "w" controls forward momentum, the problem is solved, with no extra keys necessary because you probably wouldn't be using w anyway while in blink mode, and <!--coloro:yellow--><span style="color:yellow"><!--/coloro-->it's very intuitive, perhaps even more so than pressing mouseclick to move forward<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->.
2) On the other hand, there's something special about point and click with the fast blink forward momentum; it adds <!--coloro:yellow--><span style="color:yellow"><!--/coloro-->some indefinable extra visceral element to create a forward impulse with the finger of the same hand that guides its direction<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->. Here, you could do something like make crouch control blink mode. Everyone is familiar with using crouch to go into stealth mode from other games.
The problem with coupled blink mode and forward momentum is that, if the fade is supposed to use blink like in ns1, he will tap blink for precise control, and he will be seen by marines so he really isn't stealthy, it just adds some special effects.
<!--quoteo(post=1847716:date=May 21 2011, 08:22 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ May 21 2011, 08:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847716"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Basically, as I understand it, clicking the mouse button would automatically give you forward momentum. However, you can still control direction with WASD keys, and mouselook. So, yes, moving in a straight line or curve, and flying up into the air, should all be possible with the new planned Fade blink implementation.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This keeps sounding better and better. Did you do the work for the fade? He looks nasty in a good way :) Nice job.
@juice: Interesting points. Personally, I like to see a bit of forced movement in with the blink. It's fine if there's some kind if trick to move slowly or fake someone out, like the crouching you mentioned, but I think with such an "unstable" form of movement such as teleportation, there should be some part of it that the player can't fully control.
Another idea for staying in the same place could be how the blink handles momentum while in process. Is there a delay when you change directions, where you decelerate from the initial direction and slowly pick up on the new one? (think powersliding in a racing game) If so, could you enter blink, do a 180, and use that lag time to essentially stay in place? That could work.
I'm also a fan of the fade being able to be blocked by players. If he can fly up, a fade should reasonably be able to avoid a marine if he's paying attention.
The other issue is what about letting up on the mouse button, readjusting, and re-blinking, all quickly in order to change direction on a dime? Fades did this in NS1 all the time, in order to make sharp movements and shake marines' aim. Personally I have no problem seeing the fade poof in and out again if he wants to do this in NS2. I think it would be really exciting as a marine to see him disappear, reappear for a split second in the air, then guess at where he's going to land. Who is he going to land next to and kill? Behind me? In front? Is it just a feint and he's running?
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1847734:date=May 21 2011, 05:20 PM:name=juice)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (juice @ May 21 2011, 05:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847734"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As all good fades know, the high acceleration/movement speed of blink requires you to press/release/tap blink as necessary to precisely guide your position. Therefore, <!--coloro:yellow--><span style="color:yellow"><!--/coloro-->blink mode must be decoupled from forward momentum<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->.
Even though blink mode only lasts about 2000 ms, this is an eternity for a fast moving creature like the fade, and it must have precision controls.
Here are 2 options:
1) If mouse click controls blink/stealth mode, and "w" controls forward momentum, the problem is solved, with no extra keys necessary because you probably wouldn't be using w anyway while in blink mode, and <!--coloro:yellow--><span style="color:yellow"><!--/coloro-->it's very intuitive, perhaps even more so than pressing mouseclick to move forward<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->.
2) On the other hand, there's something special about point and click with the fast blink forward momentum; it adds <!--coloro:yellow--><span style="color:yellow"><!--/coloro-->some indefinable extra visceral element to create a forward impulse with the finger of the same hand that guides its direction<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->. Here, you could do something like make crouch control blink mode. Everyone is familiar with using crouch to go into stealth mode from other games.
The problem with coupled blink mode and forward momentum is that, if the fade is supposed to use blink like in ns1, he will tap blink for precise control, and he will be seen by marines so he really isn't stealthy, it just adds some special effects.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First of all, why should blink be decoupled from forward momentum? It would make it more interesting for marines to be able to shoot the fade that split second where he becomes visible to change direction or whatever. Other than that it would make him alot more nightcrawler-like, you see the fade blink out up by the ceiling and the next second he is right next to you, or behind you. I think UWE's approach is perfect. No need to change that, as i don't see any problems in it. I know that in NS1, fades just tapped mouse2 to get a boost forward, but that won't be exactly the way it works in NS2 obviously. There will be alot more stategy in fading in NS2 then there were in NS1 with this model of blink they are working on now.
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
edited May 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1847745:date=May 21 2011, 01:17 PM:name=assbda)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (assbda @ May 21 2011, 01:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847745"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i dont get it. So is the fade blink movement going to be like ns1 now? except with a buff on attacks during blink movement<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Except it's faster, more advanced movement, and completely <i>fade</i> from marine vision. Also the buff to damage of course.
I'm a big fan of the mixture. You'll be able to blink looking away and turn around to strike his side.
<!--quoteo(post=1847716:date=May 21 2011, 10:22 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ May 21 2011, 10:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847716"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Basically, as I understand it, clicking the mouse button would automatically give you forward momentum. However, you can still control direction with WASD keys, and mouselook. So, yes, moving in a straight line or curve, and flying up into the air, should all be possible with the new planned Fade blink implementation.
This reminds me... and sorry I completely forgot to mention it: Flayra's new direction for blink, to combine the ns1 controls with the concept of the nightcrawler for ns2 is absolutely brilliant. I was so excited to post about my 2 cents on the details, I forgot to give credit where it is due. This is going to totally rock...
I wouldn't mind if dash was the current Blink that covers a shorter distance. New Blink definitely sounds more controllable and reliable for long distance and tactical positioning.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Btw, “metal†â€carbon†and “plasma†terms are officially gone (now just “team res†and “resâ€). Both are capped at 999.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> If the point of switching from carbon and plasma to res and team res was to clarify the resource model, why not further distinguish team res from res by adding a 0 to all of the Team Res costs and values and making the cap 9999? Ground-unit/P.Res purchases would be in the 5-30 res range, and Commander/T.Res would be in the 100-400 range.
The graphic for personal res is the one blue plasma orb, while for team res it's 3 of these 'orbs', so it seems logical.
the new fade blink sounds pretty good, but what happens when u get hit by a flamethrower? marines run just as fast as a fade and it will completely be draining your energy wont it? your dead.
fade blink in attack, guy with flame thrower lights you up, no enery cant escape too slow...ded
<!--quoteo(post=1847847:date=May 22 2011, 09:08 AM:name=Codeine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Codeine @ May 22 2011, 09:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847847"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the new fade blink sounds pretty good, but what happens when u get hit by a flamethrower? marines run just as fast as a fade and it will completely be draining your energy wont it? your dead.
fade blink in attack, guy with flame thrower lights you up, no enery cant escape too slow...ded<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The flamethrower is surely going to be nerfed at some point. Cannot imagine NS2 1.0 coming out with a flamethrower that can shoot through walls etc.
the flamethrower needs a lot of work imho, it's not very fun to use, and its even worse to fight against.
It doesn't do enough damage to fades and essentially, it's only role is to burn infest... well that and to provide a non-skill based way to kill lower lifeforms
When the fade "teleports" while on fire the flames don't follow him through his warphole (?). hey just go out since there is no fuel (the skin of the fade) to burn at the flames' location. The fade will escape the flames but will already have lost alot of energy.
<!--quoteo(post=1847847:date=May 22 2011, 03:08 AM:name=Codeine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Codeine @ May 22 2011, 03:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847847"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the new fade blink sounds pretty good, but what happens when u get hit by a flamethrower? marines run just as fast as a fade and it will completely be draining your energy wont it? your dead.
fade blink in attack, guy with flame thrower lights you up, no enery cant escape too slow...ded<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think that's the point of making the flamethrower a support weapon. In theory, you sacrifice damage for shutting down alien escape abilities. The specific numbers can be tweaked.
<!--quoteo(post=1847933:date=May 22 2011, 03:49 PM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ May 22 2011, 03:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847933"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think that's the point of making the flamethrower a support weapon. In theory, you sacrifice damage for shutting down alien escape abilities. The specific numbers can be tweaked.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Still, in NS1 you had to have significant teamwork and planning to block a fade, and it also scaled with fade skill. Now, it's just a point and click spam weapon with a random time dot that removes movement from classes based on movement. Preventing movement for marines is fine, they're ranged. Melee, it's not ok. There's a reason all these type of abilities worked better when given to kharaa (web, stomp, devour...) Imagine if the stomp ability was given to heavy armor instead of onos. Bad news. It's only ok to root a movement class if it takes time to do so plus an error of judgment by the target.
<!--coloro:yellow--><span style="color:yellow"><!--/coloro-->If flames stacked linearly and determinately, and energy depletion was based on the stack, it would work better by creating a clearer risk/reward picture in order for the kharaa to choose their new optimal hit/run ratio<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->, which is lower due to presence and <b>proximity</b> of flames. It would cause marines to want to be close to the flamer for greater protection from hit and run attacks.
This will be more significant with the new resource model changes where the higher classes are not so expendable.
<!--quoteo(post=1847847:date=May 22 2011, 04:08 AM:name=Codeine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Codeine @ May 22 2011, 04:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847847"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the new fade blink sounds pretty good, but what happens when u get hit by a flamethrower? marines run just as fast as a fade and it will completely be draining your energy wont it? your dead.
fade blink in attack, guy with flame thrower lights you up, no enery cant escape too slow...ded<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Marines can't run and fire.
<!--quoteo(post=1848016:date=May 23 2011, 09:06 AM:name=juice)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (juice @ May 23 2011, 09:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1848016"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Still, in NS1 you had to have significant teamwork and planning to block a fade, and it also scaled with fade skill. Now, it's just a point and click spam weapon with a random time dot that removes movement from classes based on movement. Preventing movement for marines is fine, they're ranged. Melee, it's not ok. There's a reason all these type of abilities worked better when given to kharaa (web, stomp, devour...) Imagine if the stomp ability was given to heavy armor instead of onos. Bad news. It's only ok to root a movement class if it takes time to do so plus an error of judgment by the target.
<!--coloro:yellow--><span style="color:yellow"><!--/coloro-->If flames stacked linearly and determinately, and energy depletion was based on the stack, it would work better by creating a clearer risk/reward picture in order for the kharaa to choose their new optimal hit/run ratio<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->, which is lower due to presence and <b>proximity</b> of flames. It would cause marines to want to be close to the flamer for greater protection from hit and run attacks.
This will be more significant with the new resource model changes where the higher classes are not so expendable.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Don't expect Flamers to be balanced until they implement all of that "volumetric" stuff they had planned on. It'd be counter-productive.
<!--quoteo(post=1848079:date=May 24 2011, 07:44 AM:name=KuBaN)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KuBaN @ May 24 2011, 07:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1848079"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Don't expect Flamers to be balanced until they implement all of that "volumetric" stuff they had planned on. It'd be counter-productive.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wisdom.
Comments
I was suggesting that we should have air control goodness ns1 (post wall stuck fade) blink with a momentary cloak that gives it that nightcrawler aesthetic that UW <3s so much
full game, might have 2 hive commanders and 2-3 gorges....that doesn't leave much to the front line heirachy compared to marines, is this a concern?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Apparently we don't care and alien comm is stubbornly here to stay. Makes me sad.
<!--quoteo(post=1847652:date=May 21 2011, 01:32 PM:name=Codeine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Codeine @ May 21 2011, 01:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847652"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I dont like the direction gorges and hive commanders are going, its reducing the players needed in the front lines.
full game, might have 2 hive commanders and 2-3 gorges....that doesn't leave much to the front line heirachy compared to marines, is this a concern?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not a concern if you have front-line gorges.
Hop hop Healspray, hop.
It works up until you bump into half-competent aim and a shotgun anyways.. quite fun.
Though I doubt that's quite what you meant, it's nice having an ability that damages and heals whatever else is mauling your target <3
16 gorges and each of them dropping a hydra at marine start. :V Exciting.
<!--quoteo(post=1847630:date=May 20 2011, 07:19 PM:name=NurEinMensch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NurEinMensch @ May 20 2011, 07:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847630"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh yes and fix medpacks healing armor, that's just wrong.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, all player healing is dictated by the same function LiveMixin:AddHealth(), which does not currently have any parameter to specify whether it should restore armor or not. It's a quick enough fix; I've done it myself in one of my own projects.
Basically, as I understand it, clicking the mouse button would automatically give you forward momentum. However, you can still control direction with WASD keys, and mouselook. So, yes, moving in a straight line or curve, and flying up into the air, should all be possible with the new planned Fade blink implementation.
--Cory
Interesting though is that function MedPack:GetPackRecipient() is only checking for health, not armor. So you don't pick up medpacks if you are at 100hp, however if your health is below 100hp health and armor is restored until you are at 100 hp. Is that intended or a bug?
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As all good fades know, the high acceleration/movement speed of blink requires you to press/release/tap blink as necessary to precisely guide your position. Therefore, <!--coloro:yellow--><span style="color:yellow"><!--/coloro-->blink mode must be decoupled from forward momentum<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->.
Even though blink mode only lasts about 2000 ms, this is an eternity for a fast moving creature like the fade, and it must have precision controls.
Here are 2 options:
1) If mouse click controls blink/stealth mode, and "w" controls forward momentum, the problem is solved, with no extra keys necessary because you probably wouldn't be using w anyway while in blink mode, and <!--coloro:yellow--><span style="color:yellow"><!--/coloro-->it's very intuitive, perhaps even more so than pressing mouseclick to move forward<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->.
2) On the other hand, there's something special about point and click with the fast blink forward momentum; it adds <!--coloro:yellow--><span style="color:yellow"><!--/coloro-->some indefinable extra visceral element to create a forward impulse with the finger of the same hand that guides its direction<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->. Here, you could do something like make crouch control blink mode. Everyone is familiar with using crouch to go into stealth mode from other games.
The problem with coupled blink mode and forward momentum is that, if the fade is supposed to use blink like in ns1, he will tap blink for precise control, and he will be seen by marines so he really isn't stealthy, it just adds some special effects.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This keeps sounding better and better.
Did you do the work for the fade? He looks nasty in a good way :) Nice job.
Interesting points. Personally, I like to see a bit of forced movement in with the blink. It's fine if there's some kind if trick to move slowly or fake someone out, like the crouching you mentioned, but I think with such an "unstable" form of movement such as teleportation, there should be some part of it that the player can't fully control.
Another idea for staying in the same place could be how the blink handles momentum while in process. Is there a delay when you change directions, where you decelerate from the initial direction and slowly pick up on the new one? (think powersliding in a racing game) If so, could you enter blink, do a 180, and use that lag time to essentially stay in place? That could work.
I'm also a fan of the fade being able to be blocked by players. If he can fly up, a fade should reasonably be able to avoid a marine if he's paying attention.
The other issue is what about letting up on the mouse button, readjusting, and re-blinking, all quickly in order to change direction on a dime? Fades did this in NS1 all the time, in order to make sharp movements and shake marines' aim. Personally I have no problem seeing the fade poof in and out again if he wants to do this in NS2. I think it would be really exciting as a marine to see him disappear, reappear for a split second in the air, then guess at where he's going to land. Who is he going to land next to and kill? Behind me? In front? Is it just a feint and he's running?
Just sounds fun :D
Even though blink mode only lasts about 2000 ms, this is an eternity for a fast moving creature like the fade, and it must have precision controls.
Here are 2 options:
1) If mouse click controls blink/stealth mode, and "w" controls forward momentum, the problem is solved, with no extra keys necessary because you probably wouldn't be using w anyway while in blink mode, and <!--coloro:yellow--><span style="color:yellow"><!--/coloro-->it's very intuitive, perhaps even more so than pressing mouseclick to move forward<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->.
2) On the other hand, there's something special about point and click with the fast blink forward momentum; it adds <!--coloro:yellow--><span style="color:yellow"><!--/coloro-->some indefinable extra visceral element to create a forward impulse with the finger of the same hand that guides its direction<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->. Here, you could do something like make crouch control blink mode. Everyone is familiar with using crouch to go into stealth mode from other games.
The problem with coupled blink mode and forward momentum is that, if the fade is supposed to use blink like in ns1, he will tap blink for precise control, and he will be seen by marines so he really isn't stealthy, it just adds some special effects.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First of all, why should blink be decoupled from forward momentum? It would make it more interesting for marines to be able to shoot the fade that split second where he becomes visible to change direction or whatever. Other than that it would make him alot more nightcrawler-like, you see the fade blink out up by the ceiling and the next second he is right next to you, or behind you. I think UWE's approach is perfect. No need to change that, as i don't see any problems in it.
I know that in NS1, fades just tapped mouse2 to get a boost forward, but that won't be exactly the way it works in NS2 obviously. There will be alot more stategy in fading in NS2 then there were in NS1 with this model of blink they are working on now.
So is the fade blink movement going to be like ns1 now? except with a buff on attacks during blink movement
So is the fade blink movement going to be like ns1 now? except with a buff on attacks during blink movement<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Except it's faster, more advanced movement, and completely <i>fade</i> from marine vision. Also the buff to damage of course.
I'm a big fan of the mixture. You'll be able to blink looking away and turn around to strike his side.
Short transition to invisible, Immediate speed boost, continual speed boost, outline shown if hit.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgtzCu4-1l8" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgtzCu4-1l8</a>
Outline shown if hit shown about 1:00. He's running quite low textures though.
Last question tho, can the fade be hit during *fade* and does it display him / cancle fade mode if he can get hit.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1847740:date=May 21 2011, 11:37 AM:name=jkflipflop)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jkflipflop @ May 21 2011, 11:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847740"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This keeps sounding better and better.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This reminds me... and sorry I completely forgot to mention it: Flayra's new direction for blink, to combine the ns1 controls with the concept of the nightcrawler for ns2 is absolutely brilliant. I was so excited to post about my 2 cents on the details, I forgot to give credit where it is due. This is going to totally rock...
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MztXNdpLjg0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MztXNdpLjg0</a> :V
If the point of switching from carbon and plasma to res and team res was to clarify the resource model, why not further distinguish team res from res by adding a 0 to all of the Team Res costs and values and making the cap 9999? Ground-unit/P.Res purchases would be in the 5-30 res range, and Commander/T.Res would be in the 100-400 range.
The graphic for personal res is the one blue plasma orb, while for team res it's 3 of these 'orbs', so it seems logical.
<!--quoteo(post=1846099:date=May 13 2011, 07:21 PM:name=Quovatis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quovatis @ May 13 2011, 07:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1846099"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wonder what "Nanogrid Defense" upgrade is?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
TechData.lua:163: Gradually reduces damage by 40% for target player or structure (lasts 15 seconds)"},
fade blink in attack, guy with flame thrower lights you up, no enery cant escape too slow...ded
fade blink in attack, guy with flame thrower lights you up, no enery cant escape too slow...ded<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The flamethrower is surely going to be nerfed at some point. Cannot imagine NS2 1.0 coming out with a flamethrower that can shoot through walls etc.
It doesn't do enough damage to fades and essentially, it's only role is to burn infest...
well that and to provide a non-skill based way to kill lower lifeforms
Only let Acomm build infestation within line of sight or let the gorges spread it, please!
That's how I think it works.
fade blink in attack, guy with flame thrower lights you up, no enery cant escape too slow...ded<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think that's the point of making the flamethrower a support weapon. In theory, you sacrifice damage for shutting down alien escape abilities. The specific numbers can be tweaked.
Still, in NS1 you had to have significant teamwork and planning to block a fade, and it also scaled with fade skill. Now, it's just a point and click spam weapon with a random time dot that removes movement from classes based on movement. Preventing movement for marines is fine, they're ranged. Melee, it's not ok. There's a reason all these type of abilities worked better when given to kharaa (web, stomp, devour...) Imagine if the stomp ability was given to heavy armor instead of onos. Bad news. It's only ok to root a movement class if it takes time to do so plus an error of judgment by the target.
<!--coloro:yellow--><span style="color:yellow"><!--/coloro-->If flames stacked linearly and determinately, and energy depletion was based on the stack, it would work better by creating a clearer risk/reward picture in order for the kharaa to choose their new optimal hit/run ratio<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->, which is lower due to presence and <b>proximity</b> of flames. It would cause marines to want to be close to the flamer for greater protection from hit and run attacks.
This will be more significant with the new resource model changes where the higher classes are not so expendable.
fade blink in attack, guy with flame thrower lights you up, no enery cant escape too slow...ded<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Marines can't run and fire.
<!--quoteo(post=1848016:date=May 23 2011, 09:06 AM:name=juice)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (juice @ May 23 2011, 09:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1848016"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Still, in NS1 you had to have significant teamwork and planning to block a fade, and it also scaled with fade skill. Now, it's just a point and click spam weapon with a random time dot that removes movement from classes based on movement. Preventing movement for marines is fine, they're ranged. Melee, it's not ok. There's a reason all these type of abilities worked better when given to kharaa (web, stomp, devour...) Imagine if the stomp ability was given to heavy armor instead of onos. Bad news. It's only ok to root a movement class if it takes time to do so plus an error of judgment by the target.
<!--coloro:yellow--><span style="color:yellow"><!--/coloro-->If flames stacked linearly and determinately, and energy depletion was based on the stack, it would work better by creating a clearer risk/reward picture in order for the kharaa to choose their new optimal hit/run ratio<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->, which is lower due to presence and <b>proximity</b> of flames. It would cause marines to want to be close to the flamer for greater protection from hit and run attacks.
This will be more significant with the new resource model changes where the higher classes are not so expendable.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't expect Flamers to be balanced until they implement all of that "volumetric" stuff they had planned on. It'd be counter-productive.
Wisdom.
The shotgun, though? That can be fixed now.