Yay live near Boston, Im gonna look forward to this. Would say next to Riot, since if there is going to be a lot of exposure at Riot, people may get bored in line and just walk on in to you guys.
I wish I could Tig but as allways I will be following them online when/if there is gonna be a live coverage.
I would say Riot just because it might stand out from the crowed but then again the people who play LOL might not go for something like NS so am not sure, PAX is just soo much at once and NS might not end up getting the attention it deserves there but again it totally depends on what you gonna do in your both and what other games there are on the floor at the same time to not pull all the attention. <!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--> <b>brainstorming for the NS2 booth</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
1. I was thinking if there was any way to give away timed CD keys for the beta since it should be in a much better shape by then, just like what the guys from coffee stain studios did, they gave out cd keys on steam for their game Sanctum wich lasted like a month or so.
2. Maybe you can look into partnering with some of the graphic card vendors like XFX, BFG, Nvidia and AMD/ATI or alienware or Intel, maybe they could help supply you with some monster rigs.
3. Have that gorge the testers send you at the booth.
4. Give away NS2 key chains, something cool but not too expensive.
5. Give away NS2 stickers or posters or mouse pads.
6. Incase if there is gonna be live/video coverage make sure to contact and invite those people so when they walk the floor they dont miss you and have the game on a laptop or a portable version of the game incase they call you for a stage showcase ( I belive thats the name for what gamespot.com do?? not sure ), maybe even give away 3-5 cd keys if its a live thing.
7. Good coordination with the tester team to have a server running so people at the booth play with the testers ( testers take it easy and let them win dont scare them away :D )
8. Film people's reaction after playing the game, let them tell you what they like and what they dont. ( DICE did this with battlefield 3 ) video could be allso used later edited with some gameplay footage to send to video game websites like gametrailers.com
I just watched the DI idea and well.. it's confusing to say the least. Maybe I don't get it or maybe you just never thought it through before the video.
If I show you this image of Summit minimap and then say the dots are cysts and the grey lines are main connections, that's all well and simple and such, as below: <img src="http://i.imgur.com/W1zxE.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Although when you implement the idea as expressed in the video, it seems strange that connection make physical leaps and bounds over such distances, through walls and then essentially skip so many portions of the network for nodes strength. You can have a weaker node nearer the base and have no connection as opposed to a strong one further out. Essentially, it will confuse a player who's not able to look at the top down, particularly a gorge who may be assisting.
In red are the connections and as you can see, some spread out a huge distance in and skip larger chunks of the map, in particular one notable region is a huge black gap on the right and that misses out 4 other nodes. <img src="http://i.imgur.com/eR3Ql.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
This is the vibe I get from the idea and it sounds really confusing. It seems like to me to develop the network idea of strength and varying nodes, it needs to be confined to within reaching distance. Especially as maps such as Tram, which have walls very close to each other with a long travelling distance between them could really imbalance the whole network idea. Or maybe I just don't get it?
EDIT: I just realised all my connections as based on the video of the DI network reach well across the void. It just doesn't make sense to a ground unit or even for the theory of the network to be able to mind map for greater distances missing out nodes on the way?
<!--quoteo(post=1886229:date=Nov 22 2011, 09:25 PM:name=konata)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (konata @ Nov 22 2011, 09:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1886229"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just watched the DI idea and well.. it's confusing to say the least. Maybe I don't get it or maybe you just never thought it through before the video.
If I show you this image of Summit minimap and then say the dots are cysts and the grey lines are main connections, that's all well and simple and such, as below: <img src="http://i.imgur.com/W1zxE.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Although when you implement the idea as expressed in the video, it seems strange that connection make physical leaps and bounds over such distances, through walls and then essentially skip so many portions of the network for nodes strength. You can have a weaker node nearer the base and have no connection as opposed to a strong one further out. Essentially, it will confuse a player who's not able to look at the top down, particularly a gorge who may be assisting.
In red are the connections and as you can see, some spread out a huge distance in and skip larger chunks of the map, in particular one notable region is a huge black gap on the right and that misses out 4 other nodes. <img src="http://i.imgur.com/eR3Ql.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
This is the vibe I get from the idea and it sounds really confusing. It seems like to me to develop the network idea of strength and varying nodes, it needs to be confined to within reaching distance. Especially as maps such as Tram, which have walls very close to each other with a long travelling distance between them could really imbalance the whole network idea. Or maybe I just don't get it?
EDIT: I just realised all my connections as based on the video of the DI network reach well across the void. It just doesn't make sense to a ground unit or even for the theory of the network to be able to mind map for greater distances missing out nodes on the way?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
From my understanding, connecting vines will be confined to playable spaces (like only places a skulk can get to). This would mean that the connections will not pass through walls or over gaps because the vine is a physical link. I think the scale of your map is part of the problem. There will likely be at least 3 cysts/nodes placed in any large room/space. You're still thinking of it like the current circle-style placement. It would be possible to build a network like your first pic, but it would be extremely risky. I'll try to do my own mock-up of how I understand the new-style DI network would work on a minimap when I get a chance. It's a bit difficult to explain with just words.
<!--quoteo(post=1886363:date=Nov 23 2011, 10:25 PM:name=culprit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (culprit @ Nov 23 2011, 10:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1886363"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->From my understanding, connecting vines will be confined to playable spaces (like only places a skulk can get to). This would mean that the connections will not pass through walls or over gaps because the vine is a physical link. I think the scale of your map is part of the problem. There will likely be at least 3 cysts/nodes placed in any large room/space. You're still thinking of it like the current circle-style placement. It would be possible to build a network like your first pic, but it would be extremely risky. I'll try to do my own mock-up of how I understand the new-style DI network would work on a minimap when I get a chance. It's a bit difficult to explain with just words.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The picture was designed that way to describe the flaw, as it was described as that on a top down view of summit when they extended the network out and level'd it up in the video.
<!--quoteo(post=1886397:date=Nov 23 2011, 06:31 PM:name=Mazungu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mazungu @ Nov 23 2011, 06:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1886397"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->heh getting excited now :) I hope the new build is out before the long weekend.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1886423:date=Nov 24 2011, 03:54 AM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Nov 24 2011, 03:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1886423"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Will performance be improved in this build? By that I mean will it be smoother and give higher FPS?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It should be at least for occlusion culling.
You should see some kind of improvement, even with atmospherics and AA on. At the very least you should notice less hitching. That's the new culling and other tweaks at work.
matsoMaster of PatchesJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
Yea, not so much higher FPS per se, but MUCH smoother, which is arguably more important... having 99 frames the first half second and 1 frame for the other half of a second nets a 50 fps, but it really, really sucks.... (not that it has been that bad, but sometimes the hitching can get pretty bad in 187).
After watching --<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVwSKgt_-Kc&feature=channel_video_title" target="_blank">NS2HD 322</a> 188 Tram Tour - Natural Selection 2 Beta --
I hope they do 2 things when the time is right.
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->1.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> The refresh rate of the atmospheric lights should be faster take a look at 4:28 ( not sure if its the capture software doing that or its an optimization thing or maybe the angle is making the light look like its stuttering )
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->EDIT: after playing the game there was no problem with first point.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
2. I can't help but feel like the game need some blur, so I hope they implement that at some point.
EDIT:
I allso wanted to ask what is the polycount for the rifle and the marine model?
And say if I wanted to create a very high detail marine model what is the max polycount the engine can push say with 8-10 of the same character on screen?
I am working on something now in sketchup ( trying to learn some basic modeling am still very noob at this ) and I got a rifle model done, is this count too high for a rifle?? I exported to .3ds as its the only one that seem to give me that count. <img src="http://i.imgur.com/qA8wn.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<!--quoteo(post=1886495:date=Nov 24 2011, 01:40 PM:name=rammaj)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rammaj @ Nov 24 2011, 01:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1886495"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And say if I wanted to create a very high detail marine model what is the max polycount the engine can push say with 8-10 of the same character on scree I am working on something now in sketchup ( trying to learn some basic modeling am still very noob at this ) and I got a rifle model done, is this count too high for a rifle??<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
4k is probably ok for a rifle viewmodel, somewhat high for a 3rd person model. a 3rd person weapon should be around 1-2k Characters should be something like 10k
total guesses but industry standard is around there
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Max referred me to "The Cathedral and the Bazaar" and I'm amazed at how similar it is to our company worldview (http://t.co/2ajhWeso)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The future is open source! Check it out: <a href="https://blog.mises.org/17270/open-source-blueprint-for-civilization/" target="_blank">Fusion Physicist goes Open Hardware (TED video)</a>.
<!--quoteo(post=1886495:date=Nov 24 2011, 08:40 AM:name=rammaj)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rammaj @ Nov 24 2011, 08:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1886495"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2. I can't help but feel like the game need some blur, so I hope they implement that at some point.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not gonna lie, some per-object motion blur in the game engine (optional of course) would make the game even more stunning. Max?
<!--quoteo(post=1887445:date=Nov 29 2011, 06:41 AM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Nov 29 2011, 06:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1887445"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->4k is probably ok for a rifle viewmodel, somewhat high for a 3rd person model. a 3rd person weapon should be around 1-2k Characters should be something like 10k
total guesses but industry standard is around there<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
allright thanks for your response that helped alot.
<!--quoteo(post=1887510:date=Nov 29 2011, 03:27 PM:name=Koruyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koruyo @ Nov 29 2011, 03:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1887510"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Afaik motionblur is planned, andl come at some point.... One step after another.
Offtopic: Now the usefull links :P so everybody can watch what juice posted..., since e.g. hulu doesnt work in my country.
<a href="http://www.ted.com/talks/marcin_jakubowski.html" target="_blank">http://www.ted.com/talks/marcin_jakubowski.html</a> <a href="http://opensourceecology.org/" target="_blank">http://opensourceecology.org/</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Thanks koruyo, hulu is crap! And the opposite of open source.
<!--quoteo(post=1887526:date=Nov 29 2011, 09:42 PM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Nov 29 2011, 09:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1887526"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->no problem but I also wouldn't mind some sort of official statement from a UW artist on polycount.
since the engine is totally unique some inside info on the kind of numbers it can push would be useful to modders.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't have exact numbers for all the models off the top of my head, but the first person view models average around 10K polys, with 2048x2048 texture maps. The marine 3rd person weapon models are much smaller--1k or under, with smaller texture maps. The marine player model is somewhere between 10-12K I believe, and same goes for most of the alien player models as well.
In general, the engine can push a large amount of polys, and rendering all the detail in the game doesn't seem to be a problem, especially with the new occlusion system that has been implemented.
Comments
pax is a gaming convention. riot is a game company that makes league of legends. it's in boston in april. you should come.
I would say Riot just because it might stand out from the crowed but then again the people who play LOL might not go for something like NS so am not sure, PAX is just soo much at once and NS might not end up getting the attention it deserves there but again it totally depends on what you gonna do in your both and what other games there are on the floor at the same time to not pull all the attention.
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->
<b>brainstorming for the NS2 booth</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
1. I was thinking if there was any way to give away timed CD keys for the beta since it should be in a much better shape by then, just like what the guys from coffee stain studios did, they gave out cd keys on steam for their game Sanctum wich lasted like a month or so.
2. Maybe you can look into partnering with some of the graphic card vendors like XFX, BFG, Nvidia and AMD/ATI or alienware or Intel, maybe they could help supply you with some monster rigs.
3. Have that gorge the testers send you at the booth.
4. Give away NS2 key chains, something cool but not too expensive.
5. Give away NS2 stickers or posters or mouse pads.
6. Incase if there is gonna be live/video coverage make sure to contact and invite those people so when they walk the floor they dont miss you and have the game on a laptop or a portable version of the game incase they call you for a stage showcase ( I belive thats the name for what gamespot.com do?? not sure ), maybe even give away 3-5 cd keys if its a live thing.
7. Good coordination with the tester team to have a server running so people at the booth play with the testers ( testers take it easy and let them win dont scare them away :D )
8. Film people's reaction after playing the game, let them tell you what they like and what they dont. ( DICE did this with battlefield 3 ) video could be allso used later edited with some gameplay footage to send to video game websites like gametrailers.com
9.
If I show you this image of Summit minimap and then say the dots are cysts and the grey lines are main connections, that's all well and simple and such, as below:
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/W1zxE.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Although when you implement the idea as expressed in the video, it seems strange that connection make physical leaps and bounds over such distances, through walls and then essentially skip so many portions of the network for nodes strength. You can have a weaker node nearer the base and have no connection as opposed to a strong one further out. Essentially, it will confuse a player who's not able to look at the top down, particularly a gorge who may be assisting.
In red are the connections and as you can see, some spread out a huge distance in and skip larger chunks of the map, in particular one notable region is a huge black gap on the right and that misses out 4 other nodes.
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/eR3Ql.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
This is the vibe I get from the idea and it sounds really confusing. It seems like to me to develop the network idea of strength and varying nodes, it needs to be confined to within reaching distance. Especially as maps such as Tram, which have walls very close to each other with a long travelling distance between them could really imbalance the whole network idea. Or maybe I just don't get it?
EDIT: I just realised all my connections as based on the video of the DI network reach well across the void. It just doesn't make sense to a ground unit or even for the theory of the network to be able to mind map for greater distances missing out nodes on the way?
If I show you this image of Summit minimap and then say the dots are cysts and the grey lines are main connections, that's all well and simple and such, as below:
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/W1zxE.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Although when you implement the idea as expressed in the video, it seems strange that connection make physical leaps and bounds over such distances, through walls and then essentially skip so many portions of the network for nodes strength. You can have a weaker node nearer the base and have no connection as opposed to a strong one further out. Essentially, it will confuse a player who's not able to look at the top down, particularly a gorge who may be assisting.
In red are the connections and as you can see, some spread out a huge distance in and skip larger chunks of the map, in particular one notable region is a huge black gap on the right and that misses out 4 other nodes.
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/eR3Ql.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
This is the vibe I get from the idea and it sounds really confusing. It seems like to me to develop the network idea of strength and varying nodes, it needs to be confined to within reaching distance. Especially as maps such as Tram, which have walls very close to each other with a long travelling distance between them could really imbalance the whole network idea. Or maybe I just don't get it?
EDIT: I just realised all my connections as based on the video of the DI network reach well across the void. It just doesn't make sense to a ground unit or even for the theory of the network to be able to mind map for greater distances missing out nodes on the way?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
From my understanding, connecting vines will be confined to playable spaces (like only places a skulk can get to). This would mean that the connections will not pass through walls or over gaps because the vine is a physical link. I think the scale of your map is part of the problem. There will likely be at least 3 cysts/nodes placed in any large room/space. You're still thinking of it like the current circle-style placement. It would be possible to build a network like your first pic, but it would be extremely risky. I'll try to do my own mock-up of how I understand the new-style DI network would work on a minimap when I get a chance. It's a bit difficult to explain with just words.
The picture was designed that way to describe the flaw, as it was described as that on a top down view of summit when they extended the network out and level'd it up in the video.
I hope too it's on "playable" space too.
Gobble Gobble.
It should be at least for occlusion culling.
My FPS is generally OK, it's the stuttering that's annoying.
I hope they do 2 things when the time is right.
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->1.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> The refresh rate of the atmospheric lights should be faster take a look at 4:28 ( not sure if its the capture software doing that or its an optimization thing or maybe the angle is making the light look like its stuttering )
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->EDIT: after playing the game there was no problem with first point.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
2. I can't help but feel like the game need some blur, so I hope they implement that at some point.
EDIT:
I allso wanted to ask what is the polycount for the rifle and the marine model?
And say if I wanted to create a very high detail marine model what is the max polycount the engine can push say with 8-10 of the same character on screen?
I am working on something now in sketchup ( trying to learn some basic modeling am still very noob at this ) and I got a rifle model done, is this count too high for a rifle??
I exported to .3ds as its the only one that seem to give me that count.
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/qA8wn.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I am working on something now in sketchup ( trying to learn some basic modeling am still very noob at this ) and I got a rifle model done, is this count too high for a rifle??<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
4k is probably ok for a rifle viewmodel, somewhat high for a 3rd person model. a 3rd person weapon should be around 1-2k
Characters should be something like 10k
total guesses but industry standard is around there
The future is open source! Check it out: <a href="https://blog.mises.org/17270/open-source-blueprint-for-civilization/" target="_blank">Fusion Physicist goes Open Hardware (TED video)</a>.
Not gonna lie, some per-object motion blur in the game engine (optional of course) would make the game even more stunning. Max?
One step after another.
Offtopic:
Now the usefull links :P so everybody can watch what juice posted..., since e.g. hulu doesnt work in my country.
<a href="http://www.ted.com/talks/marcin_jakubowski.html" target="_blank">http://www.ted.com/talks/marcin_jakubowski.html</a>
<a href="http://opensourceecology.org/" target="_blank">http://opensourceecology.org/</a>
Characters should be something like 10k
total guesses but industry standard is around there<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
allright thanks for your response that helped alot.
One step after another.
Offtopic:
Now the usefull links :P so everybody can watch what juice posted..., since e.g. hulu doesnt work in my country.
<a href="http://www.ted.com/talks/marcin_jakubowski.html" target="_blank">http://www.ted.com/talks/marcin_jakubowski.html</a>
<a href="http://opensourceecology.org/" target="_blank">http://opensourceecology.org/</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks koruyo, hulu is crap! And the opposite of open source.
no problem but I also wouldn't mind some sort of official statement from a UW artist on polycount.
since the engine is totally unique some inside info on the kind of numbers it can push would be useful to modders.
since the engine is totally unique some inside info on the kind of numbers it can push would be useful to modders.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't have exact numbers for all the models off the top of my head, but the first person view models average around 10K polys, with 2048x2048 texture maps. The marine 3rd person weapon models are much smaller--1k or under, with smaller texture maps. The marine player model is somewhere between 10-12K I believe, and same goes for most of the alien player models as well.
In general, the engine can push a large amount of polys, and rendering all the detail in the game doesn't seem to be a problem, especially with the new occlusion system that has been implemented.
--Cory