<!--quoteo(post=1890550:date=Dec 16 2011, 09:07 PM:name=Josh86)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Josh86 @ Dec 16 2011, 09:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1890550"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->About the past games you worked on: I really liked Rise and Fall Civilizations at War. I know Cory was the only one (I think) and probably just did some art contract work -- but I really liked that game. It's also free now, by the way, and very fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I was still a fulltime employee working at that company for Rise and Fall, and did a lot of concept art, textures and cinematics for it. Sad how the company closed right before we were done with the game, and the publisher took the build which was several months old (missing some content and a lot of bug fixes) and handed it off to an internal team, who then proceeded to spend several months adding more bugs. And the game ended up getting released with a minimal PR and marketing push, and was buried by all the other games that came out around that same time.
Hey I played that game too, I really liked two things about it:
1. Walls that you can put dudes on.
2. Buildings that spawn dudes.
The first one is mostly just me with my weird predisposition for turtling, but the second I think is a really good take on the formula of defensive structures, rather than having stuff that just shoots arrows at the enemy, spawning actual troops is a lot more versatile and also slows them down, plus you get to see actual fighting.
Wish more games took tht route for defensive structures.
The naval battles were cool as well, killing ships by yelling at the ship to ram them is a lot of fun.
Edit: Oh yeah and lerk camping, I did it a lot in earlier builds, you could hold off an entire team from the vent at the south of middle hive on rockdown, in the current build I haven't touched the lerk because I can't tell what the spikes are supposed to do and the gas gets you killed if you try to use it. If spikes are still easy to hit with though I imagine it'd be just as overpowered.
<!--quoteo(post=1890685:date=Dec 18 2011, 01:36 AM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Dec 18 2011, 01:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1890685"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Tooltips are a great idea, and of course, make them optional.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> this and have automatic disabling after enough playtime.
I'd say the automatic disabling should be tooltip-specific and based on how many times the tooltip is shown, e.g. after 3, maybe 5, times, it stops displaying. Because e.g. someone might play primarily marines for however many hours, which disables tooltips, then play aliens and not know half of what he's supposed to do.
<!--quoteo(post=1890581:date=Dec 16 2011, 08:15 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Dec 16 2011, 08:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1890581"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I was still a fulltime employee working at that company for Rise and Fall, and did a lot of concept art, textures and cinematics for it. Sad how the company closed right before we were done with the game, and the publisher took the build which was several months old (missing some content and a lot of bug fixes) and handed it off to an internal team, who then proceeded to spend several months adding more bugs. And the game ended up getting released with a minimal PR and marketing push, and was buried by all the other games that came out around that same time.
But I'm not bitter or anything :P
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ah, it's such an awesome concept. The hero control/abilties, wall building, boat combat, units/abilties, etc. It had a lot of great aspects and the game only needed some more RTS complexity/balance to be truly great (that and any bug fixes). It feels like one of those game that really should have been great, and would have with a bit more time, but no one gave it a chance. Poor Midway -- picked up by Warner, now, though. I'm glad the new MK game did well.
I'd like to see another game like Rise and Fall. Rise and Fall was a game that helped me get more seriously interested in RTS type games -- that and Dungeon Keeper 2, Natural Selection, Men of War, etc -- games that have more than just a commanding aspect.
<!--quoteo(post=1891103:date=Dec 20 2011, 11:10 PM:name=Koruyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koruyo @ Dec 20 2011, 11:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1891103"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->why dont you just ask <a href="http://www.fullyillustrated.com/" target="_blank">http://www.fullyillustrated.com/</a> for the ui?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A quote from the Main site: <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Awww man, this was ace. As you all well know, I am games obsessed, and just love working with all you games companies out there. So when the guys over at Unknownworlds Entertainment got in touch and introduced me to the world of Natural Selection 2, I was salivating! This game is frikken gorgeous!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah this company made ui concepts for nuclear dawn(which look really cool if you ask me <a href="http://www.fullyillustrated.com/portfolio/design/)" target="_blank">http://www.fullyillustrated.com/portfolio/design/)</a>, and this other ns2 homepage with the buy button etc.
<!--quoteo(post=1891103:date=Dec 20 2011, 10:10 PM:name=Koruyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koruyo @ Dec 20 2011, 10:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1891103"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->why dont you just ask <a href="http://www.fullyillustrated.com/" target="_blank">http://www.fullyillustrated.com/</a> for the ui?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, they made our NS2.com website. We tried to get them for UI work, actually, and they really wanted to work on NS2 but just couldn't find the time to squeeze us in due to their current workload. But they were our first choice, and we've been trying to make it work for months.
Max said <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We've been doing a lot of experiments to measure input lag. Aero desktop adds an insane 33ms when your app is in windowed mode<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is totally awesome that you guys are measuring input lag. I believe this is actually unprecedented in gaming, and shows a commitment to making NS2 a truly competitive game and Spark an awesome engine.
While some other engines have done well in this regard, I think it's more luck than conscious iteration with attention to this important factor.
<!--quoteo(post=1891394:date=Dec 23 2011, 01:15 AM:name=juice)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (juice @ Dec 23 2011, 01:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1891394"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Max said
That is totally awesome that you guys are measuring input lag. I believe this is actually unprecedented in gaming, and shows a commitment to making NS2 a truly competitive game and Spark an awesome engine.
While some other engines have done well in this regard, I think it's more luck than conscious iteration with attention to this important factor.
I'm super-encouraged by this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Input-lag isn't completely ignored by engine-developers in general, for example one way it is taken into consideration is by invoking the polling-routine at the last possible moment (when any following tasks depend absolutely on the input given by the player).
On a more important note: <!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=max)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (max)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We've been doing a lot of experiments to measure input lag. Aero desktop adds an insane 33ms when your app is in windowed mode<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Confirmed, as switching to basic made my input-lag go way way down (coming close to acceptable levels, almost). If you want to try it for yourself: Right-click NS2.exe -> Properties -> Compatibility -> Disable visual themes & Disable desktop composition.
<!--quoteo(post=1891400:date=Dec 22 2011, 07:20 PM:name=player)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (player @ Dec 22 2011, 07:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1891400"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Input-lag isn't completely ignored by engine-developers in general, for example one way it is taken into consideration is by invoking the polling-routine at the last possible moment (when any following tasks depend absolutely on the input given by the player).
On a more important note:
Confirmed, as switching to basic made my input-lag go way way down (coming close to acceptable levels, almost). If you want to try it for yourself: Right-click NS2.exe -> Properties -> Compatibility -> Disable visual themes & Disable desktop composition.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> We've tightened up a few things with the input processing and limited how far behind the GPU can get from the CPU, so I think it's pretty good now. Our tests with a high speed camera confirm that we're basically doing everything right. The rest of eliminating input lag will just be upping the frame rate.
Hey guys! Just a quick thought: If you invite players to squeeze into a public test via twitter, that's awesome! However, could you also post a tweet once the test wraps up, or if the server is taken down at the end? I caught this one an hour late, and I can't tell if it's over, if the server's full, or if I'm just having trouble connecting.
fsfodukJoin Date: 2004-04-09Member: 27810Members, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->max_mcguire: We've been doing a lot of experiments to measure input lag. Aero desktop adds an insane 33ms when your app is in windowed mode<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Isn't this what DirectX 9 <b>Ex</b> was partly created to solve <a href="http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ee890072%28v=vs.85%29.aspx#flip_model" target="_blank">Direct3D 9EX Flip Mode Presentation</a>
<!--quoteo(post=1891416:date=Dec 23 2011, 05:32 PM:name=fsfod)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fsfod @ Dec 23 2011, 05:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1891416"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Isn't this what DirectX 9 <b>Ex</b> was partly created to solve <a href="http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ee890072%28v=vs.85%29.aspx#flip_model" target="_blank">Direct3D 9EX Flip Mode Presentation</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
isnt there a function to temporarily switch themes on application launch? at least it is what procaster does for example when you launch it, it is switching the windows theme from aero temporarily to windows basic
I don't know if nHancer for geforce can deactivate the Areodesktop on game launch, but RadeonPro (the program) has the possibility to deactivating aero on gamestart.
<a href="http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa969510%28v=vs.85%29.aspx" target="_blank">DwmEnableComposition</a>, but ideally NS2 should be able to function with Aero.
ZeikkoJoin Date: 2007-12-16Member: 63179Members, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester
Isn't it also psosible to make the game to disable Aero? I am using some applications that uatomatically disable Aero when they are run. I think this could be a good fix if windowed mode input lag can't be fixed in any other way than disabling Aero.
<!--quoteo(post=1891446:date=Dec 23 2011, 03:37 PM:name=player)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (player @ Dec 23 2011, 03:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1891446"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just said that a couple of posts ago, oh well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh yeah... you are right. Well, sometimes redundancy helps ;)
Has anyone got a cure for "screen tearing" when full-screen ? - I've read elsewhere that the frame rate is sometimes forced to stick to 24fps (something to do with a "feature" for playing back movies within the drivers)
I spotted this answer in relation to Crysis and an nvidia card, and have since been able to confirm that when windowed, the game does NOT suffer from the tearing issue, but it returns as soon as you go full screen again.
My current card is an ATI 5xxx series, but I can't find a way to stop this from happening.
Enabling or disabling vsync doesn't make any difference, nor does changing the screen resolution, or changing the video playback settings.
I also had the same issue with an ATI 4670 card on another system.
Thanks in advance, here's hoping there's some silly simple flag that can be set by the game to prevent drivers from doing this, but I know the odds aren't good :-}
I think I might have resolved the problem with the screen tearing / vsync not working issue in Windows 7 :-)
After installing ATI Tray Tools (a second time, the last driver install seemed to break it), set up the game profile within it, setting vsync on etc. but make sure you also select the "Vista workaround" vsync option under the "direct 3d tweaks" tab. I initially ignored this option as it appeared to relate to Vista only.
I don't know yet if it makes any difference, but you can run the game direct from the game profile icon you set up (by finding the executable) within ATI Tray Tools
Comments
either way with GLs, you can't hide in any of them :p
I was still a fulltime employee working at that company for Rise and Fall, and did a lot of concept art, textures and cinematics for it. Sad how the company closed right before we were done with the game, and the publisher took the build which was several months old (missing some content and a lot of bug fixes) and handed it off to an internal team, who then proceeded to spend several months adding more bugs. And the game ended up getting released with a minimal PR and marketing push, and was buried by all the other games that came out around that same time.
But I'm not bitter or anything :P
--Cory
1. Walls that you can put dudes on.
2. Buildings that spawn dudes.
The first one is mostly just me with my weird predisposition for turtling, but the second I think is a really good take on the formula of defensive structures, rather than having stuff that just shoots arrows at the enemy, spawning actual troops is a lot more versatile and also slows them down, plus you get to see actual fighting.
Wish more games took tht route for defensive structures.
The naval battles were cool as well, killing ships by yelling at the ship to ram them is a lot of fun.
Edit: Oh yeah and lerk camping, I did it a lot in earlier builds, you could hold off an entire team from the vent at the south of middle hive on rockdown, in the current build I haven't touched the lerk because I can't tell what the spikes are supposed to do and the gas gets you killed if you try to use it. If spikes are still easy to hit with though I imagine it'd be just as overpowered.
this and have automatic disabling after enough playtime.
Because e.g. someone might play primarily marines for however many hours, which disables tooltips, then play aliens and not know half of what he's supposed to do.
But I'm not bitter or anything :P
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ah, it's such an awesome concept. The hero control/abilties, wall building, boat combat, units/abilties, etc. It had a lot of great aspects and the game only needed some more RTS complexity/balance to be truly great (that and any bug fixes). It feels like one of those game that really should have been great, and would have with a bit more time, but no one gave it a chance. Poor Midway -- picked up by Warner, now, though. I'm glad the new MK game did well.
I'd like to see another game like Rise and Fall. Rise and Fall was a game that helped me get more seriously interested in RTS type games -- that and Dungeon Keeper 2, Natural Selection, Men of War, etc -- games that have more than just a commanding aspect.
A quote from the Main site:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Awww man, this was ace. As you all well know, I am games obsessed, and just love working with all you games companies out there. So when the guys over at Unknownworlds Entertainment got in touch and introduced me to the world of Natural Selection 2, I was salivating! This game is frikken gorgeous!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
and a bit higher I read nuclear dawn ^^
Yes, they made our NS2.com website. We tried to get them for UI work, actually, and they really wanted to work on NS2 but just couldn't find the time to squeeze us in due to their current workload. But they were our first choice, and we've been trying to make it work for months.
--Cory
That is totally awesome that you guys are measuring input lag. I believe this is actually unprecedented in gaming, and shows a commitment to making NS2 a truly competitive game and Spark an awesome engine.
While some other engines have done well in this regard, I think it's more luck than conscious iteration with attention to this important factor.
I'm super-encouraged by this.
That is totally awesome that you guys are measuring input lag. I believe this is actually unprecedented in gaming, and shows a commitment to making NS2 a truly competitive game and Spark an awesome engine.
While some other engines have done well in this regard, I think it's more luck than conscious iteration with attention to this important factor.
I'm super-encouraged by this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Input-lag isn't completely ignored by engine-developers in general, for example one way it is taken into consideration is by invoking the polling-routine at the last possible moment (when any following tasks depend absolutely on the input given by the player).
On a more important note:
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=max)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (max)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We've been doing a lot of experiments to measure input lag. Aero desktop adds an insane 33ms when your app is in windowed mode<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Confirmed, as switching to basic made my input-lag go way way down (coming close to acceptable levels, almost). If you want to try it for yourself: Right-click NS2.exe -> Properties -> Compatibility -> Disable visual themes & Disable desktop composition.
On a more important note:
Confirmed, as switching to basic made my input-lag go way way down (coming close to acceptable levels, almost). If you want to try it for yourself: Right-click NS2.exe -> Properties -> Compatibility -> Disable visual themes & Disable desktop composition.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We've tightened up a few things with the input processing and limited how far behind the GPU can get from the CPU, so I think it's pretty good now. Our tests with a high speed camera confirm that we're basically doing everything right. The rest of eliminating input lag will just be upping the frame rate.
If you invite players to squeeze into a public test via twitter, that's awesome! However, could you also post a tweet once the test wraps up, or if the server is taken down at the end? I caught this one an hour late, and I can't tell if it's over, if the server's full, or if I'm just having trouble connecting.
Figured that was the case, but thanks for the confirmation. I'll just have to catch the next one faster! ;)
Isn't this what DirectX 9 <b>Ex</b> was partly created to solve <a href="http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ee890072%28v=vs.85%29.aspx#flip_model" target="_blank">Direct3D 9EX Flip Mode Presentation</a>
isnt there a function to temporarily switch themes on application launch? at least it is what procaster does for example when you launch it, it is switching the windows theme from aero temporarily to windows basic
<img src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8054606/disable_aero.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Oh yeah... you are right. Well, sometimes redundancy helps ;)
I'll check it out.
I spotted this answer in relation to Crysis and an nvidia card, and have since been able to confirm that when windowed, the game does NOT suffer from the tearing issue, but it returns as soon as you go full screen again.
My current card is an ATI 5xxx series, but I can't find a way to stop this from happening.
Enabling or disabling vsync doesn't make any difference, nor does changing the screen resolution, or changing the video playback settings.
I also had the same issue with an ATI 4670 card on another system.
Thanks in advance, here's hoping there's some silly simple flag that can be set by the game to prevent drivers from doing this, but I know the odds aren't good :-}
After installing ATI Tray Tools (a second time, the last driver install seemed to break it), set up the game profile within it, setting vsync on etc. but make sure you also select the "Vista workaround" vsync option under the "direct 3d tweaks" tab. I initially ignored this option as it appeared to relate to Vista only.
I don't know yet if it makes any difference, but you can run the game direct from the game profile icon you set up (by finding the executable) within ATI Tray Tools