Bilebomb and its place
elodea
Editlodea Join Date: 2009-06-20 Member: 67877Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Editlodea Join Date: 2009-06-20 Member: 67877Members, Reinforced - Shadow
<div class="IPBDescription">the CONSTRUCTIVE thread</div>Rule 1) If your an angry man child troll gtfo.
Rule 2) Provide reasons, arguements, counter arguements.
Here are some of my arguement and counter arguements for why i think bilebomb should remain on the gorge.
<u><b>Design perspective</b></u>
<b>Arguements for</b>
a) You cannot spore and bilebomb at the same time so not only are you asking to be shot out of the sky (already very easy to die trying to spore cover), but you cannot confuse sentry turrets at the same time. What giving bilebomb to lerk has done is give it two abilities that share the same function in regards to countering sentry turrets. This is not good design as it creates redundancy. Given the fragility of the lerk and a one weapon ability at any time mechanic, you can do one thing (ie. spore) but not the other (ie. bilebomb) vice versa.
b) Having bilebomb on gorges gave them a flavour and importance of their own in a unique twist that i think helped emphasize the importance of teamwork. The gorge required protection while bilebombing and acted as a signpost for alien mustering and concentration of force. The energy cost of bilebomb meant that you gave up your supporting effectiveness and survivability in a linear tradeoff. It gave the player a feeling of empowerment with an associated tradeoff such that it made gorging an interesting excercise of player controlled transitioning between a "omg stay behind the lines" class and a slightly more "offensive" class. Pidgeonholing lifeforms is uninteresting and has been done to death in the games industry already.
c) To be able to say to new players, friends etc. that the weakest offensive class, gorge, and not the most offensive class, fade, (lets exclude Onos) wins games is an intriguing concept and i think goes a long way in promoting not only the concept of team synergy but also the newness that NS2 gameplay will have for alot of people on launch.
d) Aliens now have absolutely no midgame counter to sentry turrets. This either prolongs a won game even further by pushing it into the late game or causes aliens to just leave out of frustration. Whoever wins the early game wins the midgame. Whoever wins the midgame wins the lategame. Whoever wins the late game wins the round.
<b>Counter arguements</b>
<!--QuoteBegin-Flayra+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I felt the Gorge had too many roles before: engineer, healer, and siege. And Lerk didn't have enough abilities.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The gorge may seem to have too many roles, but i would argue that this never presented a problem and infact ensured the relevance of the gorge throughout the early game to late game. It was a great way to encourage participation from new players (who usually play gorge) to learn about the dynamics of the game instead of creating massive structure farms everywhere oblivious to the rest of the game. Also, while the lerk may not have had enough abilities, it doesn't make sense to me to remove the lerks high burst dps flanking attack (shotgun) and add a dot bilebomb that is more kamikaze than harrassing.
<!--QuoteBegin-Scotty+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scotty)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->1) The gorge will be receiving some new abilities to help support the skulks. Which logic implies that bilebomb has to go, to make way for these abilities.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Logic does not imply unless it is a design decision to keep weapon ability groupings capped to 3. It was never a problem in ns1 to have more than 3 weapon abilities and so i don't see why it is now. Also, not only am i of the personal opinion that combat buffs beyond healing are pretty gimmicky and feel like an artificially forced way of creating synergy, but skulks are not siege breakers. Neither are lerks that have to drop bilebomb from close range.
<!--QuoteBegin-Scotty+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scotty)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So now the Gorge will be just the "combat engineer", with a couple more structures he can build (in a future patch) and the Lerk will be further reinforced as the "damage over time" role.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, now the gorge will simply be an engineer/medic. There is no 'combat' if you want to talk about the midgame to lategame timeframes where bilebomb is relevant. No idea what the structures will be, but giving the gorge structures to build is only going to confuse the alien command/gorge mechanic and functions. I am actually biased for removing alien comm and returning the ns1 gorge functionality, but the kham is here to stay and so giving gorge structures to build is like a watered down attempt at appeasing both crowds by giving everyone everything so to speak. All it does is weaken the importance of both roles (khamm and gorge). Yet to see what structures gorge will be given so i may be wrong here and i hope i am.
<!--QuoteBegin-Scotty+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scotty)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The removal of bilebomb was a good choice in the long run. The gorge is not an attacking class, he has the roll of support. Giving bilebomb to an attack/harass class such as lerk is the best solution to this problem.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dont buy this. Its bad reasoning that pidgeonholes classes and starts going down the route of designing games with the intention of specifically dictating how players play (see WoW). Following this logic we should also remove spit, make healspray do no damage to marines, remove the ability to place unconnected cysts and hydras. In the end, there was a need for a relatively cheap midgame alien counter to structures whose effectiveness was severely limited by good marine pressure and highly effective against entrenched turtles, dot bilebomb doesn't fulfill this role unless buffed massively at which point it becomes OP.
<u><b>Balance perspective</b></u>
I refer here specifically to b200 to explain why lerk bilebomb is useless and redundant within the frame of b200.
Its energy cost to damage is vastly greater than spike. Lerk bilebomb dps is very weak - (takes 2% hp off an extractor over a long period of time and cannot stack). It is so weak that it becomes immediately obvious spike is the better anti structure choice and doesn't require you risking your expensive lifeform by flying over structures in marine bases.
Its not fun having a stale midgame. It may be fun initially to sentry spam and turtle, but after a while (if your considering the long term longevity and fun of the game) most are not going to enjoy it whether alien or marine and those who do will be playing siege maps.
<b>My constructive suggestion</b>
1) Give bilebomb back to gorge.
2) Lerk bilebomb i'm not sure about. There might be room for a bilebomb dot like ability for the lerk (in addition to gorge bilebomb), but as far as i can tell it doesn't fit with his role as a fighter but this is my unsubstantiated opinion.
Rule 2) Provide reasons, arguements, counter arguements.
Here are some of my arguement and counter arguements for why i think bilebomb should remain on the gorge.
<u><b>Design perspective</b></u>
<b>Arguements for</b>
a) You cannot spore and bilebomb at the same time so not only are you asking to be shot out of the sky (already very easy to die trying to spore cover), but you cannot confuse sentry turrets at the same time. What giving bilebomb to lerk has done is give it two abilities that share the same function in regards to countering sentry turrets. This is not good design as it creates redundancy. Given the fragility of the lerk and a one weapon ability at any time mechanic, you can do one thing (ie. spore) but not the other (ie. bilebomb) vice versa.
b) Having bilebomb on gorges gave them a flavour and importance of their own in a unique twist that i think helped emphasize the importance of teamwork. The gorge required protection while bilebombing and acted as a signpost for alien mustering and concentration of force. The energy cost of bilebomb meant that you gave up your supporting effectiveness and survivability in a linear tradeoff. It gave the player a feeling of empowerment with an associated tradeoff such that it made gorging an interesting excercise of player controlled transitioning between a "omg stay behind the lines" class and a slightly more "offensive" class. Pidgeonholing lifeforms is uninteresting and has been done to death in the games industry already.
c) To be able to say to new players, friends etc. that the weakest offensive class, gorge, and not the most offensive class, fade, (lets exclude Onos) wins games is an intriguing concept and i think goes a long way in promoting not only the concept of team synergy but also the newness that NS2 gameplay will have for alot of people on launch.
d) Aliens now have absolutely no midgame counter to sentry turrets. This either prolongs a won game even further by pushing it into the late game or causes aliens to just leave out of frustration. Whoever wins the early game wins the midgame. Whoever wins the midgame wins the lategame. Whoever wins the late game wins the round.
<b>Counter arguements</b>
<!--QuoteBegin-Flayra+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I felt the Gorge had too many roles before: engineer, healer, and siege. And Lerk didn't have enough abilities.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The gorge may seem to have too many roles, but i would argue that this never presented a problem and infact ensured the relevance of the gorge throughout the early game to late game. It was a great way to encourage participation from new players (who usually play gorge) to learn about the dynamics of the game instead of creating massive structure farms everywhere oblivious to the rest of the game. Also, while the lerk may not have had enough abilities, it doesn't make sense to me to remove the lerks high burst dps flanking attack (shotgun) and add a dot bilebomb that is more kamikaze than harrassing.
<!--QuoteBegin-Scotty+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scotty)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->1) The gorge will be receiving some new abilities to help support the skulks. Which logic implies that bilebomb has to go, to make way for these abilities.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Logic does not imply unless it is a design decision to keep weapon ability groupings capped to 3. It was never a problem in ns1 to have more than 3 weapon abilities and so i don't see why it is now. Also, not only am i of the personal opinion that combat buffs beyond healing are pretty gimmicky and feel like an artificially forced way of creating synergy, but skulks are not siege breakers. Neither are lerks that have to drop bilebomb from close range.
<!--QuoteBegin-Scotty+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scotty)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So now the Gorge will be just the "combat engineer", with a couple more structures he can build (in a future patch) and the Lerk will be further reinforced as the "damage over time" role.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, now the gorge will simply be an engineer/medic. There is no 'combat' if you want to talk about the midgame to lategame timeframes where bilebomb is relevant. No idea what the structures will be, but giving the gorge structures to build is only going to confuse the alien command/gorge mechanic and functions. I am actually biased for removing alien comm and returning the ns1 gorge functionality, but the kham is here to stay and so giving gorge structures to build is like a watered down attempt at appeasing both crowds by giving everyone everything so to speak. All it does is weaken the importance of both roles (khamm and gorge). Yet to see what structures gorge will be given so i may be wrong here and i hope i am.
<!--QuoteBegin-Scotty+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scotty)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The removal of bilebomb was a good choice in the long run. The gorge is not an attacking class, he has the roll of support. Giving bilebomb to an attack/harass class such as lerk is the best solution to this problem.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dont buy this. Its bad reasoning that pidgeonholes classes and starts going down the route of designing games with the intention of specifically dictating how players play (see WoW). Following this logic we should also remove spit, make healspray do no damage to marines, remove the ability to place unconnected cysts and hydras. In the end, there was a need for a relatively cheap midgame alien counter to structures whose effectiveness was severely limited by good marine pressure and highly effective against entrenched turtles, dot bilebomb doesn't fulfill this role unless buffed massively at which point it becomes OP.
<u><b>Balance perspective</b></u>
I refer here specifically to b200 to explain why lerk bilebomb is useless and redundant within the frame of b200.
Its energy cost to damage is vastly greater than spike. Lerk bilebomb dps is very weak - (takes 2% hp off an extractor over a long period of time and cannot stack). It is so weak that it becomes immediately obvious spike is the better anti structure choice and doesn't require you risking your expensive lifeform by flying over structures in marine bases.
Its not fun having a stale midgame. It may be fun initially to sentry spam and turtle, but after a while (if your considering the long term longevity and fun of the game) most are not going to enjoy it whether alien or marine and those who do will be playing siege maps.
<b>My constructive suggestion</b>
1) Give bilebomb back to gorge.
2) Lerk bilebomb i'm not sure about. There might be room for a bilebomb dot like ability for the lerk (in addition to gorge bilebomb), but as far as i can tell it doesn't fit with his role as a fighter but this is my unsubstantiated opinion.
Comments
I was under the assumption lerk was the offensive support class?
Gorge was always valued with the fades and onos, moving forward and pushing the official "Defensie position" that fades could fall back to and get healed, while the gorge takes out rine gear from a distance.
Gorge is far too slow to keep up with skulks, and assuming lerk is getting primal scream or umbra, i'm not sure why gorge is now support, when before it was defensive.
(Why isn't lerk staying the support role it was before? Skulks/Fades are already the hard troops and onos is the tank, we don't have room for another serious offensive class)
Why?
It might have been wiser to only make this bile bomb change once all the new abilities were in, but maybe they just want to ease us in slowly rather than blowing our mind all at once.
<!--quoteo(post=1913843:date=Mar 16 2012, 12:48 PM:name=Argathor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Argathor @ Mar 16 2012, 12:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1913843"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The complaints about changing the Gorge are very important. They arise from how brilliant the gorge was to play before, it was almost spot on.
Not only was it fun but you were useful whatever the situation. The gorge was powerful, engaging, useful and fun. The best part was, that offensively you were completely useless without the aid of your team (solo, you mostly acted as a distraction, seeking to divide up the marines). This was all-in-all a fantastic class and one experienced and skilled people could enjoy playing.
The problem here is, should it be changed at all? The Gorge was fantastic and we should fight to keep classes like that when they come into being, it is unlikely UWE can ever make the Gorge lifeform that good again. So unless there is a gamebreaking reason the Gorge needed to be changed (none have been raised yet) there is a clear arguement for keeping it.
<b>Take Home Message: The Gorge lifeform was so RIGHT, that we should fight to keep it.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe I could add to b) that it was helping new players to have an important role in the game. In ns1 even the new fps player that can barely aim could make a critical contribution to the team by dropping rts and hives. Bilebomb had a bit of this also; as a fade it was really cool to get a gorge sitting behind his hydras, escort him to the front and protect him while he was basically wining the game for the team. We'll see the new abilities, but goo wall sound like a lot of sitting to me.
I'm also a bit puzzled about the usefulness of the concepts of "role" and "class".
The gorge class was working great and I have not heard any complaints about it at all before b200.
Focus on real problems instead please.
The gorge class was working great and I have not heard any complaints about it at all before b200.
Focus on real problems instead please.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't forget that not all problems can be addressed directly.
For example, take this hypothetical scenario. Say that people found fades to be too powerful, and that too much rode on the fades in a team to win the game. What can one do to remedy this situation? Well, directly nerfing fades may cause the aliens pinnacle assault life form to become less effective than requires, in turn causing the aliens to lose many more games than they should. Instead, a better solution could be to increase the effectiveness of skulks, and thus make it more appealing to play with skulk even past 2 hives, stopping fades from being the be all and end all of the alien strategy. Improving skulks directly however would cause early game balance to go out the window. So what you need is a way to increase the effectiveness of skulks without influencing early gameplay. Solution: change the gorge to be more focused on assisting skulks.
Maybe that means the gorge has to lose its bile bomb. I think the main problem people have with this has absolutely nothing to do with gameplay, and has everything to do with how the veteran players view the natural selection universe. We all have such fond memories of NS1, and we hate seeing things changed because it corrupts our memories. But don't forget; the fade used to have bile bomb, and I sure was mad when they gave it to the gorge, but I think it all worked out for the best, and maybe this will too.
For example, take this hypothetical scenario. Say that people found fades to be too powerful, and that too much rode on the fades in a team to win the game. What can one do to remedy this situation? Well, directly nerfing fades may cause the aliens pinnacle assault life form to become less effective than requires, in turn causing the aliens to lose many more games than they should. Instead, a better solution could be to increase the effectiveness of skulks, and thus make it more appealing to play with skulk even past 2 hives, stopping fades from being the be all and end all of the alien strategy. Improving skulks directly however would cause early game balance to go out the window. So what you need is a way to increase the effectiveness of skulks without influencing early gameplay. Solution: change the gorge to be more focused on assisting skulks.
Maybe that means the gorge has to lose its bile bomb. I think the main problem people have with this has absolutely nothing to do with gameplay, and has everything to do with how the veteran players view the natural selection universe. We all have such fond memories of NS1, and we hate seeing things changed because it corrupts our memories. But don't forget; the fade used to have bile bomb, and I sure was mad when they gave it to the gorge, but I think it all worked out for the best, and maybe this will too.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I cant see how bilebomb on gorge makes him not able to support the skulks? It brings him out of the hiveroom to the frontlines were the skulks usually hangs out.
The problem I see is when they change stuff that works good instead of fixing real problems in the game.
I think the bilebomb will go back to the gorge and then they have waste alot of time and confusion on it when it wasnt a problem from the beginning.
Fades had "acid rocket" and to my recollection it wasent the same as bilebomb. Damaged both marines and structures and were launched like a rocket.
off topic I would like it back in the game @ hive 3.
Lerks had their own energy dilemma between saving energy for shotgun spikes or using it all for gas clouding. Now with the lerk bile bomb, it's a little much for them in terms of weapon options.
Gas Cloud has never been a truly hit-and-run attack, it's also been a bit of a support-and-run ability. How about another support-and-run ability, like an Umbra Bomb that creates a bit of Umbra for teammates to take advantage of?
Here's to hoping the added gorge structures are not some mundane mini-versions of existing structures, like a mini-crag or some other uncreative/bland nonsense.
Having a decent anti-structure ranged ability fits in pretty perfectly with the general lerk playstyle, and expanding the gorge building role makes sense for the same reason. The gorge should not be a 'everything we couldn't actually build a class around so we stuck them on the utility alien' class, it should have its own area and role where it excels, prepared positions are a potentially very valuable part of alien strategy, if gorges can make them work, they become a vital part of alien strategy as well.
Let's face the facts, it was an extremely important support role who excelled in defense, could tank marines like a pro, could one on one a marine easily, and could demolish marine bases. He was THE strongest class. If I had a nickel for every time a gorge single handedly won a game with bile bomb I would be able to buy this game all over again.
Gorge should have a similar role as in NS1, he should be a support role, and an important one. What the gorge should be able to do is drop healing structures as well to keep aliens alive.
I found that in the games I played yesterday, I used the bilebomb on incoming marines on their way to our hive to wear down their armor and also in another instance, I used it to do continuous bombing runs on the maine base (along with also spraying spores), which forced the commander to keep beaconing marines back to base, preventing them from taking out our second hive and allow aliens to expand.
The lerk feels like it's primary roles are now hit and run/harass and also building destruction (those spikes are pretty good for taking out buildings).
I do really like the lerk changes but I also want to see the gorge have some new abilities or usefulness.
Gorge new ability ideas:
a) bowel sac. The idea behind this is the gorge can excrete a large acid sac that can be stuck to surfaces and remains stationary on the map until he detonates it. left click to deploy, left click to detonate. Think C4 remote detonators from war games. Can be used to ambush marines or destroy buildings.
b) vomit attack. Think short-range short-duration flame thrower type of attack (except wet brownish green vomit instead of flames) that does light damage to marines and a lot of damage to buildings. This could be really fun to use.
c) The gorge's current taunt sounds really funny, imagine what it's scream must sound like? Enter the Primal Scream ability. This ability would function similarly to the primal scream in ns1... like allows nearby aliens to use less energy or something for a timed duration.
It changed a bit the importance of the 2. Hive, because BB now needs to be deployed on the field, instead of a safe siegespot by a mobile healer.
It fixes the problems with Gorge sitting in Vents that can't be reached by marines (f.e. Warehouse) and the never ending suicide gorges (10 res was nothing for Bilebomb).
And the new BB does corode DMG, that means Marines will lose 2 AP pers sec for 4 secs.
The problem I see is when they change stuff that works good instead of fixing real problems in the game.
I think the bilebomb will go back to the gorge and then they have waste alot of time and confusion on it when it wasnt a problem from the beginning.
Fades had "acid rocket" and to my recollection it wasent the same as bilebomb. Damaged both marines and structures and were launched like a rocket.
off topic I would like it back in the game @ hive 3.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Does the Onos' structure attack make him a skulk supporter? I mean, he's on the front line, and it does the same thing as bile bomb. No, bile bomb does not in any way provide support to skulks. It is a directly offensive ability with no side affects and thus cannot be considered in any way a support ability. I do agree with you however on the topic of changing mundane game mechanics instead of moving forward with the game and fixing all the problems.
Also, fades had both acid rockets and bile bombs. You can see why as its easy to confuse the two. They're kind of the same attack with different targets, so they thought the fade should have it initially.
Give Gorge Bilebomb at 3 hives
For 2nd hive ability give him umbra spray
I actually enjoyed pushing up with a few skulks, healing them in battle and then bile bombing "structures". If a Gorge is the creator of structures, he should also be the ultimate destroyer of them as well. Playing the Lerk and using Bile Bomb doesn't feel right and I know people like myself who have aimbot style aim, where you virtually never miss are going to rape Lerks out of the air before they even get a few Bile Bombs off.
I am sorry UWE you can say what you want and write stuff down on your drawing board and call it the right thing to do, but your wrong this time, you really are. Your killing an aspect that wasn't broken and actually made a class extremely fun to play. I don't care if you have a bunch of other things for us to build coming up, nobody enjoys sitting in the background "waiting for resources" to make a friggin structure. We want fun game play, which is the most important part. I just don't understand why game developers do such drastic changes on the fly, without even trying to ask the community first on how they feel about it.
The reasons I still don't think its worth it?
Bile bomb does pitiful damage. I tested one bile bomb on a power node. 3% damage over 2-3 seconds and takes 1/3 of your energy.
I also miss Lerks having some sort of melee or mid-range attack. Shotgun spike was bad but at least it was something.
I wish Lerk's bite was back and bile bomb did significant initial damage + damage over time. Bilebomb used to do way too much damage, now it does barely any.
Not to mention its fragility, makes the entire class totally not worth the 30 res you pour into it. It should be worth 20-25 res, its so useless.
You either have 2 options as a lerk, live forever as you do fly-bys, kill nothing, soften (which the marine comm heals with meds)
OR die immediately as you fly into a room and get a shotgun to the face.
NS1 Lerks used to be terrifying, shooting silent spikes, gassing entire rooms from unknown locations, getting your face bitten off if you get too close and rallying entire armies around you with increase attack speed.
Now I'm not saying we should just revert back to NS1 Lerk, but NS2 lerks are quite pitiful in comparison.
Same can be said for skulk's leap ability.
Fades and Oni are pretty well balanced and designed so far, no complaints there.
edit: getting back to the point though... PLEASE make bile bombs do more damage. I'd like to see it do at least 100 damage with 75 damage over time added on. in comparison, Onos does 300 damage to structures with smash.
I actually enjoyed pushing up with a few skulks, healing them in battle and then bile bombing "structures". If a Gorge is the creator of structures, he should also be the ultimate destroyer of them as well. Playing the Lerk and using Bile Bomb doesn't feel right and I know people like myself who have aimbot style aim, where you virtually never miss are going to rape Lerks out of the air before they even get a few Bile Bombs off.
I am sorry UWE you can say what you want and write stuff down on your drawing board and call it the right thing to do, but your wrong this time, you really are. Your killing an aspect that wasn't broken and actually made a class extremely fun to play. I don't care if you have a bunch of other things for us to build coming up, nobody enjoys sitting in the background "waiting for resources" to make a friggin structure. We want fun game play, which is the most important part. I just don't understand why game developers do such drastic changes on the fly, without even trying to ask the community first on how they feel about it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So your mad because now you have to play the builder class like a builder class? Your job is to heal and build. Even then you can kill a marine who picks a fight with you pretty easily. I don't think anyone here would tone down the importance of a gorge on the team. Gorges are much more useful building and healing.
I say not only put bilebomb back on the gorge, but give shotgun back to the lerk. if you wanted to do damage as a lerk, you used the shotgun, not the spikes. The spikes you use in combination with spore or if you're trying to finish off a marine. Now you're stuck trying to spin in circles so you don't get shot while trying to shoot these low damage spikes. I understand why snipe was removed from the lerk, but now the shotgun too? It made me a sad lerk.
Bilebomb on lerk is difficult to use with having no clue how the tradectory is decided and it does very little damage. If you wanted more late/mid game lerks, focus on added support abilities from additional hives.
I seriously hope they revert this change.
Could there possibly be another option and just remove bilebomb completely? Or rather a different form of it for gorges. Bilebomb that doesn't damage structures, but deactivates them for a short period of time. That way gorges can't solo turrets (even though they are defenseless to a decent marine), would have to rely on skulks to take them out.
They could add a alien structure that performs the function of bilebomb (similar but not quite like the Marine's ARCs), so Khams have something to do during the late game instead of twiddling their thumbs. Perhaps a 2nd hive structure.
I do, one of the nicest things you could do for me is give me something cheaper than a hydra to build but which is still useful, ideally I'd quite like something free, or something that I can build by spending a steady stream of resources on it. Maybe goo walls can be built continuously for a steady drain on res, but otherwise I'm quite happy to spend my time building things, it's what makes the gorge different.
Webs would be a nice addition, something you can do in between the wating for money, or maybe some sort of organic landmine you can only place a certain number of and need to maybe place, then walk somewhere else and place again to lay a tripwire of sorts. Give the gorge a little time filler and you've basically filled my only objection with the class.
Bilebomb on lerks are a solution to a problem that never existed. And it only causes new problems.
Before the change, both lerks and gorges had their destinct roles, including in-combat.
Lerks were great at providing cover for the skulks or finishing off low marines.
Gorges were good at keeping skulks alive and taking buildings down.
Now there is no effective distance siege ability for the aliens.
Aliens need a siege weapon that doesn't require them to go into melee range, ie. gorge bilebomb.
Their current siegebreakers are all melee; onos, lerk bilebomb.
And most of all, gorge lost 33% of it's purpose, and 100% of it's lategame purpose.
Lerk is missing his best DPS weapon, the shotgun spikes, bilebomb does not make up for that.
Lerk bilebomb is weak and useless, primary spikes are better, even against buildings. But since bilebomb is DOT, you can do both.
This was a bad change.
The previous setup was much better than this one. It gave synergy to the aliens in combat.
Aliens start with a pretty good anti-structure attack, not least the simple fact that all alien classes can shoot their primary weapon forever to destroy buildings if they want to.
Also have you tried playing onos without a gorge nearby? Do you know how much less effective you are? Gorges are still a pretty awesome siege unit, you just pair them with the onos and turn it into a way more capable tank.
Aliens start with a pretty good anti-structure attack, not least the simple fact that all alien classes can shoot their primary weapon forever to destroy buildings if they want to.
Also have you tried playing onos without a gorge nearby? Do you know how much less effective you are? Gorges are still a pretty awesome siege unit, you just pair them with the onos and turn it into a way more capable tank.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They need it to break turret farms. It's pretty simple and straight-forward.
The current alien force doesn't have anything they can use to do that.
Basically onoses are the best siege weapon, get a few of them and crush the marines.