<!--quoteo(post=1978955:date=Sep 17 2012, 02:19 AM:name=Mr.Greedy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr.Greedy @ Sep 17 2012, 02:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1978955"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The whole Scoreboard-system is broken. Whats the target of the scoreboard. To show you how usefull some players are for the team? Its dont working like this.
Give gorges some points for healing and supporting. Doing some dmg with Hydras (without killing) could also give some points. Same thing to weld something or someone as a Marine. Rewards this actions plz.
There are a lot of other examples like: 3 guys atacking a building at same time = only 1 get points. 3 Guys building something = only 1 get points. Whats the sense of it?
Also: give points for doing dmg instead of kills. There is no fairness to give points only to the guy who did the "last dmg" .<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i totally agree.
Till now i dont understand the why K/D is usefull. TFC works fine without K/D and motivates to play for points. In my oppinion we dont need K/D we need a good system for getting points like Mr. Greedy already suggested.
for examle 1 kill - 1 point everyone who attacked a building up to x seconds ( before it dies) receives x points when it dies. Following Waypoints + x points resolving orders + x points every x points healed / weldet +1 point
**Edit** @ Argathor : My K/D is mostly negative but it doesnt bother me, i also play often commander. I dont do it because of points or K/D. i play because of the fun. Many people i play with are simply to focused on K/D leaving simply the game when their ratio is going negative and complaining about other teammembers who have better ratios then them. In my oppinion im not a bad player if my ratio is for example 4 / 20 when my teams win... there can be many reasons for such "bad" ratios like bombing as gorge buildings or just to give teammates the opurtunity to kill the others by getting the attention and the bullets / bites for the others. Sure, i die but my teammate can possible set the bite / bullet which makes the difference between win or loose.
K/D is something people like to look at. I don't even have to provide a reason for that, because deep down inside, you all know this to be somewhat true. But score in the game is probably more important. Having Score and K/D will mentally reward you either way by saying "oh you didn't kill, but you helped out a lot!" or "oh you killed so much!", so I enjoy the current system.
I had a K/D of 0/7 once, and Darkblade said "Hey guy, you sure you want to go Fade, seeing as you have a 0-7 kill ratio?". I'm sure he was doing this to anger me, so without confrontation I merely told him that I was sorry for sucking. Even at that point, I still would choose to keep the k/d and score tally. If someone is assessing you based on your skill, then perhaps they are more suited for clan play rather than pub play, because anyone that's a team player in pub play is a great player imo.
The reporting of points needs improving. Where points are anything related to a players positive/negative action (killing/building/dying/moving/assisting etc)
This would give a MUCH more granular report for those to see what actually happened. Last hitting an alien means NOTHING imo. skulk slaying is one thing. but taking down a fade or onos, rarely happens solo. Having the variance go your way on a given day/round gives a horribly skewed view. It takes a team to take down an onos, yet one player gets 30 points and the same guy gets a kill, and he may have only put 5 bullets or one shotgun shot.
If I could have anything from this thread it would be a team k/d, with other vital statistics displayed on the score sheet.
Having too much information on the TAB page is also not favorable to anyone and this would need to be clear and concise. Kills and deaths could very well be present, but include assists, time spent building, waypoints met etc.
I can agree that K/D gives a Pub Comm some information on the players at his disposal. But it is weak information from a ridiculous sample size. But, again, any information is better than no information in most cases.
In a team game, where you are playing with the same guys game in game out, you SHOULD know exactly what they should or shouldn't be able to do. K/D for THAT game may give you an indication of their current form, but no other benefit. It's arguable that making decisions based on form is good or bad.
Whether or not killing is relevant to contribution or not doesn't matter. Players want to know their kills and deaths and that is reason enough to display it.
As I said earlier , keep individual KDR and only show it to the individual player so that player can use the stats to judge thier own play as they see fit... simply do not display it to everyone.
I am pretty sure no one is so obsessed with e-peen as to need a match wide visible KDR, right ?
Commanders ? Nah, commanders will note players that are following orders and getting things done and issue equipment on that basis... not on a KDR basis.
A pretty good solution and everyone is happy... imo.
<!--quoteo(post=1979007:date=Sep 17 2012, 03:39 PM:name=ASnogarD)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASnogarD @ Sep 17 2012, 03:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1979007"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A pretty good solution and everyone is happy... imo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not happy with this at all. I want to have the K/D information and I want to make my own conclusions from it. Hiding it has no purpose other than to placate some carebears who want to be sheltered from the truth. I do not believe hiding K/D will result in so awesomely better game play that it would even on public games be worth it.
ArgathorJoin Date: 2011-07-18Member: 110942Members, Squad Five Blue
I think the most valid reason to keep K/D info public is this:
Let's say I am playing on the same server with some clan mates and one of them has 0-8 (swalk, for example). I want to be able to see that and to berate them ingame, on steam and on TeamSpeak. This is huge fun and an important part of 'bonding' as a clan! ;-)
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited September 2012
K/D can be important, or it can be irrelevant. My k/d is always highly negative. Does that mean I am a waste to my team? I don't think so, and I hate to be the one who brings screenshots into this, but this shows how k/d can be completely irrelevant in NS2...
What is very important is that the score reflects the work people have been doing. A lot of my Gorge work went unscored in that game. I am crap at fighting, will always have a bad k/d, but I always work very hard for the team. At the end of the day, to me winning is more important than personal glory.
UWE just needs to sort out the scoring system so people are properly rewarded, and then this whole argument would disappear.
Forgetting the 2 comms, Rines had only 2 players with negative kd, compared to our 4 players. It didn't make a difference as we won the game easily in the end.
EDIT - I actually like the tf2 scoreboard where kills/deaths are only shown to the individual, and scores to everyone.
I doesn't bother if K/D is shown or not. But <b>the score-system really needs an overhaul</b>. At least divide the points between the players that killed / built / repaired equally by the amount of damage / build done.
I know, you wont get that system perfect. (How to reward the guarding marine that does not build?) But <b>this is not a justification to not improve the scoring system</b>.
You say carebear to hide it, I say its e-peen waving to display it and is worthless in a TEAM game.
Anyone can get a higher KDR simply by hanging back and waiting for thier teammates to damage enemies then taking the kills, while being ready to run away... how about when you put 2 shells into a Fade and your teammate puts in the last blast that downs it ? It doesnt say xyz did 80% of the damage and adc did the remaining 20% that killed the fade...it says adc killed the fade +1 to adc +0 to xyz. How much KDR does the Lerk who covers the conflict area with poisons get ? Nothing , nada , zip ... the chances are more likely another lifeform will finish off the weakend enemies. How about old fatteh ? Heal spray KDR isnt that high, no match for that Fade...so KDR wise the Gorge is a useless lifeform and should be removed. Hell even the Onos isnt a Marine killing machine, he is more a siege breaker and takes out structures and causes havok...while again the Fades do the slicing and dicing. What does KDR show ? Fades rule the rest of the lifeforms are useless, right ?
More ? Skulk pack jumps a marine... how many of that Skulk pack get a kill attributed to his name ? 1 (ONE) ! Screw that then I will run around on my own and sneak about picking off wounded marines, that way my KDR rocks and I look like a boss.
Check the competitve matches, some of those guys had terrible KDR but were always at the battles and done thier jobs... but according to KDR only Fana , and EagleEye were any use... right ?
My point is while a high KDR may reflect an individual players ability to get the last shot in that kills, and wins encounters it doesnt reflect the team effort... a more viable system would be to allocate points based on damage done and then look at the players overall score... so if someone does 80% of the damage and someone finishes off the enemy, the one who did 80 will get 80% of the score for that kill. You then have more scoring options for team actions like healing , welding , building , getting to waypoints , etc etc. You can then base a players worth on overall score... rather than KDR, and you cant complain as a player with good killing skills will get a lot of score from kills as well...it will be reflected in the score system.
<!--quoteo(post=1978976:date=Sep 17 2012, 11:27 AM:name=Rubilac)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rubilac @ Sep 17 2012, 11:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1978976"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This would give a MUCH more granular report for those to see what actually happened. Last hitting an alien means NOTHING imo. skulk slaying is one thing. but taking down a fade or onos, rarely happens solo. Having the variance go your way on a given day/round gives a horribly skewed view. It takes a team to take down an onos, yet one player gets 30 points and the same guy gets a kill, and he may have only put 5 bullets or one shotgun shot.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> +1 to this.
Points for the kill should be awarded for the person who did the most damage, and a minor reward for the killing blow. Note that you'd also have to track who did the most damage throughout the entire player's lifetime; ie I did 500% damage over 3 minutes without killing him, because he was able to heal that many times, yet you did 100% damage when he was fully healed.
If people are dying over and over it usually means that either;
1) They're new 2) The enemy team is massively over teched and over resourced
If 1) generally they ask for help, if 2) its not fun to be spawn camped by GLs or endlessly instakilled by shotties or spawncamped by an onos. I dont blame people for leaving a clearly lost game tbh
I think it's enough that the player rankings on the scoreboard is based on score and not kills, because getting to the top of the board is a part of the "e-peen contest". This means that if you want to be on top, you have to complete game objectives. Also a lot of people just enjoy seeing theirs and other peoples stats just like in any traditional FPS game, so I think it would be detrimental to the game to remove kills and deaths from the scoreboard.
See someone in the middle of nowhere calling for medpacks with negative KD ratio, think "if he still there in 30 seconds ill give him a medpack" See someone in the middle of nowhere calling for medpacks, with 8-0 score, think "time to nano and medspam against 3 aliens and see what he can do!"
Its important to me on pubs lol
Also see someone in the middle of nowhere calling for medpacks, with 8-0 score, think "time to nano and medspam against 3 aliens and see what he can do!", then see him get his axe out, time to facepalm and watch him die.
<!--quoteo(post=1979060:date=Sep 17 2012, 07:04 AM:name=Hunter.S.T.)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hunter.S.T. @ Sep 17 2012, 07:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1979060"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also see someone in the middle of nowhere calling for medpacks, with 8-0 score, think "time to nano and medspam against 3 aliens and see what he can do!", then see him get his axe out, time to facepalm and watch him die.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The people who seem to be always arguing for removing K/D are those who often have poor ratios. They argue that it doesn't mean anything but seem to be the ones who care about it the most. IMO K/D is a good measure of fun in the game. Sure you can win in NS2 with a negative K/D (mostly on aliens) but to me that is bad design. Who wants to play a game and die over and over? The fun part of the game is killing other players...
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
I don't care if they are left in or not. My point is they are situationaly sometimes useful, and situationaly, sometimes not. People seem to think k/d means something important. It means you can aim, which is VERY helpful in a FPS, but NS2 is team centric, it's not like a game where each team has 200 lives, and once those lives are gone it's game over, then k/d is the single most important factor in the game. NS2 isn't that game, and a k/d ratio is just another statistic, which some people will place too much emphasis on, and others won't give a ###### about.
The most important thing in NS2 is that the scoring system reflects a players worth to their team and game. Of course being able to aim and kill helps, but it doesn't win NS2 alone. Destroying buildings (namely Command Structures) wins NS2 matches, not killing players.
<!--quoteo(post=1979068:date=Sep 17 2012, 04:32 PM:name=Wilson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wilson @ Sep 17 2012, 04:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1979068"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The people who seem to be always arguing for removing K/D are those who often have poor ratios. They argue that it doesn't mean anything but seem to be the ones who care about it the most. IMO K/D is a good measure of fun in the game. Sure you can win in NS2 with a negative K/D (mostly on aliens) but to me that is bad design. Who wants to play a game and die over and over? The fun part of the game is killing other players...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I counter this by arguing those who insist on KDR (or at least visible to all KDR) just want something to wave in front of other players, instead of playing the game for fun they derive fun from waving stats at others which makes for more CoD/BF 3 clones game... stat heavy, KDR waving , teamplay lacking FPS clones.
You didnt even attempt to counter argue how KDR is still reflective despite the fact it awards 1 kill point per kill to the player that delivered the last attack...even if a group of players did damage to that target. A pack skulks ? A squad of marines ? A group of various aliens in an assualt ? Gorges healing...wtf worthless player ? Commanders KDR sucks or is something like 0 / 0 ... worthless player ?
KDR is NOT an accurate reflection of a players contribution to the match, and does not take into account all the other actions performed during the match...
... I even suggested an alternative with the scoring system that would reward players who are skilled with aiming and get score from kills, but nooooo...
... herp derp I kill lots I pwn noobs, your KDR is bad you noob.
See someone in the middle of nowhere calling for medpacks with negative KD ratio, think "if he still there in 30 seconds ill give him a medpack" See someone in the middle of nowhere calling for medpacks, with 8-0 score, think "time to nano and medspam against 3 aliens and see what he can do!"
Its important to me on pubs lol
Also see someone in the middle of nowhere calling for medpacks, with 8-0 score, think "time to nano and medspam against 3 aliens and see what he can do!", then see him get his axe out, time to facepalm and watch him die.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is a good point actually, as a commander I'm more likely to medspam a good player than another one. For that reason alone seeing KD, or at least kills, is a good idea. You can get the most out of a medpack or nano's res by dropping it on the player most likely to get kills or survive with it.
ArgathorJoin Date: 2011-07-18Member: 110942Members, Squad Five Blue
There are a lot of people who need to deal with <i>their own issues</i> with seeing K:D on the score board, instead of arguing to have it removed.
Just as a small minority of people use it to grief other players, some of you are using your own dislike of performing badly to remove useful information from the game. This is an FPS and killing is very important.
Until they fix performance I think the KD display is meaningless anyway. Not to mention the ever-changing skulk mechanics. I've been playing this game since alpha, and since I got back from my 6 weeks vacation it feels like I can't hit anything any more as a skulk. I don't consider myself a pro player, but I definitely was fairly decent as a skulk. Now, because of the lacking performance and skulk changes I'm absolutely useless and I'm not even enjoying aliens any more.
I wish they'd have stuck with what worked, instead of changing these kind of base mechanics for no real reason, so close to releasee. I don't even see myself getting used to them ever, simply because I had become so accustomed to the old ones.
Wow, the amount of selfish defending of the right to slap fellow gamers with thier e-peen is heavy in this thread. No attempt to counter the arguments given, it just 'carebears' and 'unskilled players' , players with 'issues'.
Once and for all explain to me how KDR accurately reflects team contributions in all situations where multiple team members engage a single target ? Where some players support the players doing the killing ? Commanders contribution ? Explain how having a score based system that ALSO takes into account the damage and kills you make, as well as performing team actions is not more fair and accurate ? Why does it HAVE to be KDR ? Why do you need it to be visible to ALL, why not just visible to yourself for self analysis and improvement ?
Kills and deaths are in the game because people often want to know how often they've died or killed. KDR isn't in the game, and I don't think it has ever been in. At a certain point, we don't need a reason to have kills and deaths displayed on the scoreboard; many people want that information, and it's expected that said information be accessible to players in this modern gaming environment.
This conversation is moot, because UWE isn't going to just up and remove it from the scoreboard because people don't see what purpose it serves.
<!--quoteo(post=1979165:date=Sep 17 2012, 07:47 PM:name=Dusk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dusk @ Sep 17 2012, 07:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1979165"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->K/D is in the game so 99.99% of the people who see the game will take it seriously. This isn't Hello Kitty Island Adventure.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Re-read that post, did you seriously mean to post that ? I assume you were playing around when you typed that... or smoked up, or drunk.
Come back and post when you have managed to learn to read the posted arguments, and can post an sensible counter point to the given argument...
... seriously, you really think that, wow. You should go see a shrink about that.
<!--quoteo(post=1979165:date=Sep 17 2012, 11:47 AM:name=Dusk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dusk @ Sep 17 2012, 11:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1979165"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->K/D is in the game so 99.99% of the people who see the game will take it seriously. This isn't Hello Kitty Island Adventure.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Shows what you know. I'm running an 18 KDR on Hello Kitty Island Adventure.
It would be higher, but the ######' Pandas screw me over.
In my opinion, the only way I would want the scoreboard to go away is if players could at least see their W/L ratio. Maybe even have some sort of tracker (outside of games) to show how many kills they've racked with each weapon, or as each evolution.
There has to be some thing for the player to look at to be able to evaluate himself. Especially in a game like NS where the learning curve is fairly steep, it is probably a positive nudge to see your KDR slowly rising.. or more importantly your W/L. It's also nice to see a nice statistical breakdown of what areas of your game need improvement.
Edit : Yes I am aware of NS2 stats... but a lot of people (including myself) do not look at them, it'd be nice to have a similar in game feature.
Comments
Give gorges some points for healing and supporting. Doing some dmg with Hydras (without killing) could also give some points. Same thing to weld something or someone as a Marine. Rewards this actions plz.
There are a lot of other examples like: 3 guys atacking a building at same time = only 1 get points. 3 Guys building something = only 1 get points. Whats the sense of it?
Also: give points for doing dmg instead of kills. There is no fairness to give points only to the guy who did the "last dmg" .<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i totally agree.
Till now i dont understand the why K/D is usefull.
TFC works fine without K/D and motivates to play for points.
In my oppinion we dont need K/D we need a good system for getting points like Mr. Greedy already suggested.
for examle 1 kill - 1 point
everyone who attacked a building up to x seconds ( before it dies) receives x points when it dies.
Following Waypoints + x points
resolving orders + x points
every x points healed / weldet +1 point
**Edit**
@ Argathor : My K/D is mostly negative but it doesnt bother me, i also play often commander. I dont do it because of points or K/D. i play because of the fun.
Many people i play with are simply to focused on K/D leaving simply the game when their ratio is going negative and complaining about other teammembers who have better ratios then them.
In my oppinion im not a bad player if my ratio is for example 4 / 20 when my teams win... there can be many reasons for such "bad" ratios like bombing as gorge buildings or just to give teammates the opurtunity to kill the others by getting the attention and the bullets / bites for the others. Sure, i die but my teammate can possible set the bite / bullet which makes the difference between win or loose.
I had a K/D of 0/7 once, and Darkblade said "Hey guy, you sure you want to go Fade, seeing as you have a 0-7 kill ratio?". I'm sure he was doing this to anger me, so without confrontation I merely told him that I was sorry for sucking. Even at that point, I still would choose to keep the k/d and score tally. If someone is assessing you based on your skill, then perhaps they are more suited for clan play rather than pub play, because anyone that's a team player in pub play is a great player imo.
This would give a MUCH more granular report for those to see what actually happened. Last hitting an alien means NOTHING imo. skulk slaying is one thing. but taking down a fade or onos, rarely happens solo. Having the variance go your way on a given day/round gives a horribly skewed view. It takes a team to take down an onos, yet one player gets 30 points and the same guy gets a kill, and he may have only put 5 bullets or one shotgun shot.
If I could have anything from this thread it would be a team k/d, with other vital statistics displayed on the score sheet.
Having too much information on the TAB page is also not favorable to anyone and this would need to be clear and concise. Kills and deaths could very well be present, but include assists, time spent building, waypoints met etc.
I can agree that K/D gives a Pub Comm some information on the players at his disposal. But it is weak information from a ridiculous sample size. But, again, any information is better than no information in most cases.
In a team game, where you are playing with the same guys game in game out, you SHOULD know exactly what they should or shouldn't be able to do. K/D for THAT game may give you an indication of their current form, but no other benefit. It's arguable that making decisions based on form is good or bad.
players tend to call games early based soley on the K/d ratios, it fuels the give up and try again attitude
I am pretty sure no one is so obsessed with e-peen as to need a match wide visible KDR, right ?
Commanders ? Nah, commanders will note players that are following orders and getting things done and issue equipment on that basis... not on a KDR basis.
A pretty good solution and everyone is happy... imo.
I'm not happy with this at all. I want to have the K/D information and I want to make my own conclusions from it. Hiding it has no purpose other than to placate some carebears who want to be sheltered from the truth. I do not believe hiding K/D will result in so awesomely better game play that it would even on public games be worth it.
Let's say I am playing on the same server with some clan mates and one of them has 0-8 (swalk, for example). I want to be able to see that and to berate them ingame, on steam and on TeamSpeak. This is huge fun and an important part of 'bonding' as a clan! ;-)
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/Soulrefuge/k-d-not-important.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
What is very important is that the score reflects the work people have been doing. A lot of my Gorge work went unscored in that game. I am crap at fighting, will always have a bad k/d, but I always work very hard for the team. At the end of the day, to me winning is more important than personal glory.
UWE just needs to sort out the scoring system so people are properly rewarded, and then this whole argument would disappear.
Forgetting the 2 comms, Rines had only 2 players with negative kd, compared to our 4 players. It didn't make a difference as we won the game easily in the end.
EDIT - I actually like the tf2 scoreboard where kills/deaths are only shown to the individual, and scores to everyone.
I know, you wont get that system perfect. (How to reward the guarding marine that does not build?) But <b>this is not a justification to not improve the scoring system</b>.
Anyone can get a higher KDR simply by hanging back and waiting for thier teammates to damage enemies then taking the kills, while being ready to run away... how about when you put 2 shells into a Fade and your teammate puts in the last blast that downs it ?
It doesnt say xyz did 80% of the damage and adc did the remaining 20% that killed the fade...it says adc killed the fade +1 to adc +0 to xyz.
How much KDR does the Lerk who covers the conflict area with poisons get ? Nothing , nada , zip ... the chances are more likely another lifeform will finish off the weakend enemies.
How about old fatteh ? Heal spray KDR isnt that high, no match for that Fade...so KDR wise the Gorge is a useless lifeform and should be removed.
Hell even the Onos isnt a Marine killing machine, he is more a siege breaker and takes out structures and causes havok...while again the Fades do the slicing and dicing.
What does KDR show ? Fades rule the rest of the lifeforms are useless, right ?
More ? Skulk pack jumps a marine... how many of that Skulk pack get a kill attributed to his name ? 1 (ONE) ! Screw that then I will run around on my own and sneak about picking off wounded marines, that way my KDR rocks and I look like a boss.
Check the competitve matches, some of those guys had terrible KDR but were always at the battles and done thier jobs... but according to KDR only Fana , and EagleEye were any use... right ?
My point is while a high KDR may reflect an individual players ability to get the last shot in that kills, and wins encounters it doesnt reflect the team effort... a more viable system would be to allocate points based on damage done and then look at the players overall score... so if someone does 80% of the damage and someone finishes off the enemy, the one who did 80 will get 80% of the score for that kill.
You then have more scoring options for team actions like healing , welding , building , getting to waypoints , etc etc.
You can then base a players worth on overall score... rather than KDR, and you cant complain as a player with good killing skills will get a lot of score from kills as well...it will be reflected in the score system.
+1 to this.
Points for the kill should be awarded for the person who did the most damage, and a minor reward for the killing blow. Note that you'd also have to track who did the most damage throughout the entire player's lifetime; ie I did 500% damage over 3 minutes without killing him, because he was able to heal that many times, yet you did 100% damage when he was fully healed.
1) They're new
2) The enemy team is massively over teched and over resourced
If 1) generally they ask for help, if 2) its not fun to be spawn camped by GLs or endlessly instakilled by shotties or spawncamped by an onos. I dont blame people for leaving a clearly lost game tbh
See someone in the middle of nowhere calling for medpacks with negative KD ratio, think "if he still there in 30 seconds ill give him a medpack"
See someone in the middle of nowhere calling for medpacks, with 8-0 score, think "time to nano and medspam against 3 aliens and see what he can do!"
Its important to me on pubs lol
Also see someone in the middle of nowhere calling for medpacks, with 8-0 score, think "time to nano and medspam against 3 aliens and see what he can do!", then see him get his axe out, time to facepalm and watch him die.
Haha this is getting so classic.
The most important thing in NS2 is that the scoring system reflects a players worth to their team and game. Of course being able to aim and kill helps, but it doesn't win NS2 alone. Destroying buildings (namely Command Structures) wins NS2 matches, not killing players.
I counter this by arguing those who insist on KDR (or at least visible to all KDR) just want something to wave in front of other players, instead of playing the game for fun they derive fun from waving stats at others which makes for more CoD/BF 3 clones game... stat heavy, KDR waving , teamplay lacking FPS clones.
You didnt even attempt to counter argue how KDR is still reflective despite the fact it awards 1 kill point per kill to the player that delivered the last attack...even if a group of players did damage to that target.
A pack skulks ? A squad of marines ? A group of various aliens in an assualt ? Gorges healing...wtf worthless player ? Commanders KDR sucks or is something like 0 / 0 ... worthless player ?
KDR is NOT an accurate reflection of a players contribution to the match, and does not take into account all the other actions performed during the match...
... I even suggested an alternative with the scoring system that would reward players who are skilled with aiming and get score from kills, but nooooo...
... herp derp I kill lots I pwn noobs, your KDR is bad you noob.
See someone in the middle of nowhere calling for medpacks with negative KD ratio, think "if he still there in 30 seconds ill give him a medpack"
See someone in the middle of nowhere calling for medpacks, with 8-0 score, think "time to nano and medspam against 3 aliens and see what he can do!"
Its important to me on pubs lol
Also see someone in the middle of nowhere calling for medpacks, with 8-0 score, think "time to nano and medspam against 3 aliens and see what he can do!", then see him get his axe out, time to facepalm and watch him die.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is a good point actually, as a commander I'm more likely to medspam a good player than another one. For that reason alone seeing KD, or at least kills, is a good idea. You can get the most out of a medpack or nano's res by dropping it on the player most likely to get kills or survive with it.
Just as a small minority of people use it to grief other players, some of you are using your own dislike of performing badly to remove useful information from the game. This is an FPS and killing is very important.
I wish they'd have stuck with what worked, instead of changing these kind of base mechanics for no real reason, so close to releasee. I don't even see myself getting used to them ever, simply because I had become so accustomed to the old ones.
No attempt to counter the arguments given, it just 'carebears' and 'unskilled players' , players with 'issues'.
Once and for all explain to me how KDR accurately reflects team contributions in all situations where multiple team members engage a single target ? Where some players support the players doing the killing ? Commanders contribution ?
Explain how having a score based system that ALSO takes into account the damage and kills you make, as well as performing team actions is not more fair and accurate ?
Why does it HAVE to be KDR ?
Why do you need it to be visible to ALL, why not just visible to yourself for self analysis and improvement ?
This conversation is moot, because UWE isn't going to just up and remove it from the scoreboard because people don't see what purpose it serves.
Re-read that post, did you seriously mean to post that ?
I assume you were playing around when you typed that... or smoked up, or drunk.
Come back and post when you have managed to learn to read the posted arguments, and can post an sensible counter point to the given argument...
... seriously, you really think that, wow. You should go see a shrink about that.
Shows what you know. I'm running an 18 KDR on Hello Kitty Island Adventure.
It would be higher, but the ######' Pandas screw me over.
There has to be some thing for the player to look at to be able to evaluate himself. Especially in a game like NS where the learning curve is fairly steep, it is probably a positive nudge to see your KDR slowly rising.. or more importantly your W/L. It's also nice to see a nice statistical breakdown of what areas of your game need improvement.
Edit : Yes I am aware of NS2 stats... but a lot of people (including myself) do not look at them, it'd be nice to have a similar in game feature.