The new player will be more than aware they have died, they dont need someone pointing out thier sucky KDR to drive that nail in. The games difficulty will not drop sharply because you cant see how many times OTHER players have killed and died in the match.
It seems to me that you think players need thier ego's stroked to play properly. The value of knowing the other players KDR is virtually none existing and can easly be disregarded. A good player will be visible regardless of if you see their KDR or not, so will a bad player. KDR is an artificial and inaccurate measure of skill in this game, maybe a full on ffa deathmatch KDR is king but not in this game.
I think I'll get some more games in, and actually take time to note the scoreboard (personally I only check 2 things on the board, the number of players on each side, and which player is in what lifeform on my team) and take time to study the whole affair a bit more. I still think visible to all KDR is a bad thing, but arguing it here at the moment without more online time is worthless... I say its a false measurement of skill needed to prop up some players need to show off skill, and you say its a needed tool to judge a players worth in the match. I think time will answer that question, shortly after release ... as long as the server shortage doesnt kill the initial inertia of the game at launch.
Since it's a good idea to be aware of who the better players are in the team, why not use their overall win/loss ratios instead like some have suggested? The logic is that these players will win more often than not in the long term. To prevent lucky newbies from being displayed as the best players in existence, the ratios are only used when they have played a specific number of matches.
To prevent the same statistic from discouraging the poorer players, not all of the numbers should be displayed. Instead, all the players in each team are ranked by their ratios (1 to 9 or more) and only the top third or half of the team get their ranks displayed. You get to know who the good players are and nobody knows who's the worst.
In this case, there's no need for K/D ratios because it's not an accurate representation of the player's skill in NS2, eg a full-time gorge will never be a good player if we just look at the KDR. On the other hand, the overall win-loss ratio is a generally good one because nobody is lucky or unlucky all the time. Eventually, there will be a point where your lucky moments will roughly even out your unlucky ones., statistically speaking.
ArgathorJoin Date: 2011-07-18Member: 110942Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1979580:date=Sep 18 2012, 03:48 PM:name=Wilson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wilson @ Sep 18 2012, 03:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1979580"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Someone please make a mod that if you have a negative K:D a big arrow appears over your head with the word NOOB :D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That would get me occasionally! :-(
This is a terrible thread. The only people who complain about something as harmless as k/d ratio are people who obviously get overshadowed. Claiming only kill stealers get to the top is a desperate attempt at forming some kind of argument to compensate for..sucking. Sure you might steal a few kills here or there but all that matters is the alien is dead, a good player will keep getting kills whether he has help from teammates or not so it's quite a stupid argument.
<!--quoteo(post=1979489:date=Sep 18 2012, 02:30 AM:name=ASnogarD)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASnogarD @ Sep 18 2012, 02:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1979489"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->However a scorebased system would still refelct the accurate players skill more, say if a skulk kill was worth 100pts ... you did 80% of the damage and a teammate did the remaining 20%, you would get 80 points and your teammate would get 20...rather than you getting 0 kills and he gets 1 kill. Players who get a high KDR now would still get high scores and it would reflect on the scoreboard... but it leaves room for other means to score points for other team actions, thus reflects other players value.
As to needing to see other players Kills and Deaths...
Commanders dont need that information, a commander will see who is the most usefull players on his team from thier actions... commanders dont press TAB to see hey xyz has a lot of kills I'll medspam him , they notice xyz is at the places he needs to be, doing what is needed and being an asset to the commander.
Other players dont need to see either, it merely perpetuates the confusion that kills and deaths are the only measurement of skill and value in the team it fails to show the value of the other players... basically saying if your not killing the enemy you have no value to this team.
Your comment about players using other players kills and deaths as a basis to evaluate thier own skill merely perpetuates the perception kills and deaths is the only stat of worth, again.
As you say the scoreboard ranks by score, so why cant we judge only by the score ? We then dont need to see other players kills and deaths...its reflected in the score anyways, right ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ay yes, but there is a great difference between the information that k:d and score give you if they are seperated, as i said before
A high kd ratio, means follow the marine and see what his combat strategies are, it means medpack the lone marine against incoming groups of skulks.
A high score means follow the marine and see what strategy he is working to generate such a high score, it means medpack the lone marine if he is attacking important structures.
Both are very important, for different reasons. Having a single score means that it is harder to tell why the marine is doing such a good job, instead of having 2 scores, and being able to tell much more easily, if they are just a good shot or a good tatician and team player, or both!
low kdr doesn't mean that they are a noob, but having a low kdr, and a low score, does mean that they arent being very helpful to their team!
More information is useful!
edited to add: just to be clear, kdr is nowhere near the only measure of a good player, i dont believe this, and i dont think that most good players believe it either.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1979580:date=Sep 18 2012, 04:48 PM:name=Wilson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wilson @ Sep 18 2012, 04:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1979580"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Someone please make a mod that if you have a negative K:D a big arrow appears over your head with the word NOOB :D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> BEST idea ever! :D
KDR is a fun stat. It's a classic stat. You don't just remove it, unless you have something _awesome_ to replace it with. Sure it has side-effects, ie. people who tell you you suck just because your KDR is bad, even if you just won the game for your team etc.
The score system is just way too far from being complete. Guess how many points you get from welding. Zero. Zip. Nada. There's ALOT (alot.jpg) of things to add and tweak into the score sys. Lets talk about this after that. :p
I think the simplest solution is allow server admins to simply choose if their server shows k/d or not. Or even have a mod that does it. It won't change the gameplay at all anyway. This was once done in natural selection 1 and it did not have any effect. Players that want to teamplay will play with the team, players that want to frag will simply focus on the frags. This would allow players(including me) that want to be able to see k/d ration to simply avoid servers that don't show it.
This topic reminds of news articles that say that computer gaming is the reason for violence. Its just an excuse that hides the underlying reasons.
i can see how it is sometimes usefull to see which players on your team have a good kdr. i myself sometimes go ahead of such players as bait because if i trigger an ambush he is likely able to survive whilst the other way around we would both die.(im a rather bad shot)
but despite that rather small situational usefullness i fear that there are too many .... ehmm.... people out there, that would rather look at their kdr than the needs of the team. so i vote to get rid of kdr.
<!--quoteo(post=1979390:date=Sep 18 2012, 12:10 AM:name=Ceri)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ceri @ Sep 18 2012, 12:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1979390"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->One more example of "I dont read, i simply post bull######"
In games people quit or complaining because another guy is killing (doesnt matter if by cheating or if hes simply a good fps player) them and their K/D going down...so they leave the server. And in all this replys i still didnt find any argument <b>for </b>K/D Information... in exception of the e-pen guys who want to show how great they can set the final shot /bite. Counter Strike Global Offensive will be out soon... there you can show how leet you are. Again Natural Selection is a <b>Team Game</b>. No one will win a match alone if his K/D is good. Sure, Kills are important but without support and without the right decission at the right time its useless. So again, please give me arguments for K/D. I simply want to understand why this useless stat is still ingame.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then you completely ignored my post two posts above this one. Lovely how people selectively ignore what they don't want to see.
<!--quoteo(post=1979472:date=Sep 18 2012, 05:57 AM:name=ASnogarD)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASnogarD @ Sep 18 2012, 05:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1979472"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That post I was suggesting a mutually amicable solution to all parties, one that allows players to see thier own kills and deaths for self analysis and improvement but withhold that information from the rest of the server. Why do they need to know what other players kills and deaths are ? Commanders will note who is always in the right place or is successfully pushing without looking at the kills and deaths, good players will be sticking out anyways.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're presenting what you want to happen and then calling it "mutually amicable." That's like me asking you for $10, you refusing, and me proposing a "mutually amicable solution" of $9.
The point of KDR information is about learning what is going on in the entire game. You don't get that from just your own personal kills and deaths. That's the entire point.
Your hypotheticals are still BS. I've never seen anyone say "OMG MY KDR IS GETTING LOWER, /DISCONNECT." In fact, I've never seen anyone say anything about KDR in game aside from people mentioning someone's amazingly high kdr such as 50-3. The problems you manufacture to try and support the removal of KDR simply do not exist.
This game is a ###### competition. You may think its about having a nice friendly experience with aliens and marines, and that may be true, but ultimately a game has winners, and a game has losers. Remove the ability to determine which is which and you may find that people stop caring about the outcome altogether.
I have yet to play NS2, but I'm sure my KDR will be in the negatives when I start. Much like when I started playing CS:GO from a very long break since 1.6. However, as transparent and unfriendly that stat can be, I find it really motivating. Trying to get your KDR anything over 1.0 seems to be a milestone in new experiences in a game. Although I also think the CS system is quite nice too. Assists, Kills, Death. If a guy has 0 kills 7 assists 4 deaths, it at least lets me know this guy is doing some damage and contributing.
KDR will always be 'in the game' even if the game doesn't let you see it. If you're seriously angry about knowing how (in)effective you are as a player, you need to re-evaluate what you're doing a bit... (or just make a UI mod and remove it)
<!--quoteo(post=1979616:date=Sep 18 2012, 04:47 PM:name=xDragon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xDragon @ Sep 18 2012, 04:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1979616"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Dux just wants a sign that appears saying medspam here over good players so he doesnt have to think about it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Should probably just enjoy the game, just like any game the more you play the better you get. Sometimes that happens fast, sometimes slow, but your KDR will improve over time
<!--quoteo(post=1979832:date=Sep 18 2012, 06:48 PM:name=sumguy720)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sumguy720 @ Sep 18 2012, 06:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1979832"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>How about the scoreboard reports kills but not deaths?</b>
That way people don't feel like they're taking a hit when they die, but feel good when they kill?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If people feel like they're taking a hit when they die because of that little mark in the death column instead of the fact that they've lost time and all their pres gear then the problem is with their thinking.
<!--quoteo(post=1979857:date=Sep 19 2012, 12:21 AM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Sep 19 2012, 12:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1979857"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->why not just replace the whole game with a LUA hugbox?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree with the "team play" philosophy that argues against res for kill and not showing k/d.
Yes, NS2 is a team based game. But that doesn't mean individual players should not be rewarded and recognized for doing well.
Game mechanics like k/d and res for kill motivates players to improve, and gives them a way of gauging their improvement. Using a "points" system the way it is now gives the designers a good way of helping players understand what actions, besides killing, is useful to the team. It's impossible to get this perfect but it's a good metric to have. Likewise, K/D isn't a perfect metric by any means, but if you are 2/20 then you are doing something wrong. You should know that, and your team should know that. This is all part of motivating players to play the game well, which is more fun for everyone. Yes, there are some people who will miss the point of all this and behave selfishly, but that's relatively rare and when you have players behaving selfishly because of a score, they're jerks and they're going to be jerks no matter what the scoreboard says.
I think res for kill was taken away for similar reasons. The idea being that it isn't friendly to newer players and encourages "selfish" play. Again, I think it is impossible to prevent selfish players, you just want to avoid making being selfish too rewarding or necessary. Res for kill doesn't need to be hugely significant, but a small reward to better players can go a long way. It is a good mechanic to prevent the lame "res locked" defeat that can happen. It helps more skilled players have a bigger impact on the outcome of the game. It further motivates players to do well, rather than play carelessly. It also helps balance a player taking risks with their lifeform as long as they are paying off in kills. If a fade lives the whole game but never gets a kill they were pretty worthless. If someone dies several times as a fade but gets lots of kills/building destructions then their deaths were well worth it.
And lastly, it irks me that someone who is AFK earns more res than I do no matter how well I do in game ;) (no res during death)
I applaud Unknown World's efforts to make NS2 more accessible to a wider audience, and they've made a lot of great changes to get there. All the things that have made it easier for players to understand what they are suppose to do is really going to help new players. That said, at the end of the day, this is an asymmetric, unique RTSFPS with a pure melee side. It's a complicated game that is never going to fall into the "casual" category of games. It requires somewhat "hardcore" players. Unknown Worlds should not forget their target audience and remove things that hardcore players play for: Getting better and being recognized/rewarded for it.
AurOn2COOKIES! FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS!AustraliaJoin Date: 2012-01-13Member: 140224Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff
<!--quoteo(post=1979612:date=Sep 19 2012, 01:35 AM:name=coldsmoke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (coldsmoke @ Sep 19 2012, 01:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1979612"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is a terrible thread. The only people who complain about something as harmless as k/d ratio are people who obviously get overshadowed. Claiming only kill stealers get to the top is a desperate attempt at forming some kind of argument to compensate for..sucking. Sure you might steal a few kills here or there but all that matters is the alien is dead, a good player will keep getting kills whether he has help from teammates or not so it's quite a stupid argument.
0/10 will not read again.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You would be amazing as how harmful kdr can be to a teambased game sir, but i wont argue with you, as you wont read again anwyay.
<!--quoteo(post=1979893:date=Sep 18 2012, 08:34 PM:name=AuroN2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AuroN2 @ Sep 18 2012, 08:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1979893"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You would be amazing as how harmful kdr can be to a teambased game sir, but i wont argue with you, as you wont read again anwyay.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
what is the argument?
<!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><i><b>oh boo hoo sometimes idiots in pubs play poorly in the pursuit of a high KDR</b></i><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
nobody will do that in competition, where you can see clearly the analytical value of KDR
While I agree with you about KDR internetexplorer, pub play is way more important than competitive play. Maybe not for the "competitive gamers", but everyone starts out in a pub, not playing in league championships. It's impossible to have a competitive scene without a more casual playerbase to support the game. And NS2 isn't going to sell enough copies to be financially viable by only appealing to people who want to play it competitively. Rather, competitive players are the minority.
I just think it is being vastly overstated that K/D is even a problem. I hardly ever see it. People rage quit because they don't like losing, not because of k/d. People don't reset their score by reconnecting because they'll lose their res. Outside of that it is rather difficult to hurt your team by having a good k/d ratio... so what is the problem? Some players may play more selfishly but they are still helping the team. If NS2 had support classes that were vital to the team and no one was playing them that would be one thing... but that isn't the case with NS2.
<!--quoteo(post=1979768:date=Sep 18 2012, 01:07 PM:name=Deadzone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Deadzone @ Sep 18 2012, 01:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1979768"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Then you completely ignored my post two posts above this one. Lovely how people selectively ignore what they don't want to see.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I read your posts and simply dont hit the tab button isnt a clue. My K/DR isnt interesting for me. Its always negative somtimes higher, sometimes not, the problem is that some people seems to focus too much on KDR and leaving the server or complaining about possible cheaters because they cant understand why they die all the time. I had several games as a commander where i had the feeling that my faction had an advantage. One reason for loosing some of this game were that some players didnt listen to commander orders at the point where they had shotguns/upgrades/jetpacks/grenade launchers/ exos.
This is a closed beta, mostly with people who know NS1. Now think of the guys who will join NS2 when the game is published. You have all kind of players in the teams and i bet that for most of this players K/D will be most important because they possibly see a Counterstrike against Aliens. I think if this K/D stat will be in the final version we can have serious problems in public plays and not everyone wants, or have the time to join clans for teamplay.
I still stick on a well thought point system for -team support (heal/weld) -joint attacks -following orders
Comments
The games difficulty will not drop sharply because you cant see how many times OTHER players have killed and died in the match.
It seems to me that you think players need thier ego's stroked to play properly.
The value of knowing the other players KDR is virtually none existing and can easly be disregarded.
A good player will be visible regardless of if you see their KDR or not, so will a bad player.
KDR is an artificial and inaccurate measure of skill in this game, maybe a full on ffa deathmatch KDR is king but not in this game.
I think I'll get some more games in, and actually take time to note the scoreboard (personally I only check 2 things on the board, the number of players on each side, and which player is in what lifeform on my team) and take time to study the whole affair a bit more.
I still think visible to all KDR is a bad thing, but arguing it here at the moment without more online time is worthless... I say its a false measurement of skill needed to prop up some players need to show off skill, and you say its a needed tool to judge a players worth in the match.
I think time will answer that question, shortly after release ... as long as the server shortage doesnt kill the initial inertia of the game at launch.
To prevent the same statistic from discouraging the poorer players, not all of the numbers should be displayed. Instead, all the players in each team are ranked by their ratios (1 to 9 or more) and only the top third or half of the team get their ranks displayed. You get to know who the good players are and nobody knows who's the worst.
In this case, there's no need for K/D ratios because it's not an accurate representation of the player's skill in NS2, eg a full-time gorge will never be a good player if we just look at the KDR. On the other hand, the overall win-loss ratio is a generally good one because nobody is lucky or unlucky all the time. Eventually, there will be a point where your lucky moments will roughly even out your unlucky ones., statistically speaking.
How about that?
That would get me occasionally! :-(
That's how it works, right?
0/10 will not read again.
Players who get a high KDR now would still get high scores and it would reflect on the scoreboard... but it leaves room for other means to score points for other team actions, thus reflects other players value.
As to needing to see other players Kills and Deaths...
Commanders dont need that information, a commander will see who is the most usefull players on his team from thier actions... commanders dont press TAB to see hey xyz has a lot of kills I'll medspam him , they notice xyz is at the places he needs to be, doing what is needed and being an asset to the commander.
Other players dont need to see either, it merely perpetuates the confusion that kills and deaths are the only measurement of skill and value in the team it fails to show the value of the other players... basically saying if your not killing the enemy you have no value to this team.
Your comment about players using other players kills and deaths as a basis to evaluate thier own skill merely perpetuates the perception kills and deaths is the only stat of worth, again.
As you say the scoreboard ranks by score, so why cant we judge only by the score ? We then dont need to see other players kills and deaths...its reflected in the score anyways, right ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ay yes, but there is a great difference between the information that k:d and score give you if they are seperated, as i said before
A high kd ratio, means follow the marine and see what his combat strategies are, it means medpack the lone marine against incoming groups of skulks.
A high score means follow the marine and see what strategy he is working to generate such a high score, it means medpack the lone marine if he is attacking important structures.
Both are very important, for different reasons. Having a single score means that it is harder to tell why the marine is doing such a good job, instead of having 2 scores, and being able to tell much more easily, if they are just a good shot or a good tatician and team player, or both!
low kdr doesn't mean that they are a noob, but having a low kdr, and a low score, does mean that they arent being very helpful to their team!
More information is useful!
edited to add: just to be clear, kdr is nowhere near the only measure of a good player, i dont believe this, and i dont think that most good players believe it either.
BEST idea ever! :D
The score system is just way too far from being complete. Guess how many points you get from welding. Zero. Zip. Nada. There's ALOT (alot.jpg) of things to add and tweak into the score sys. Lets talk about this after that. :p
It won't change the gameplay at all anyway. This was once done in natural selection 1 and it did not have any effect. Players that want to teamplay will play with the team, players that want to frag will simply focus on the frags. This would allow players(including me) that want to be able to see k/d ration to simply avoid servers that don't show it.
This topic reminds of news articles that say that computer gaming is the reason for violence. Its just an excuse that hides the underlying reasons.
but despite that rather small situational usefullness i fear that there are too many .... ehmm.... people out there, that would rather look at their kdr than the needs of the team. so i vote to get rid of kdr.
In games people quit or complaining because another guy is killing (doesnt matter if by cheating or if hes simply a good fps player) them and their K/D going down...so they leave the server.
And in all this replys i still didnt find any argument <b>for </b>K/D Information... in exception of the e-pen guys who want to show how great they can set the final shot /bite.
Counter Strike Global Offensive will be out soon... there you can show how leet you are.
Again Natural Selection is a <b>Team Game</b>. No one will win a match alone if his K/D is good. Sure, Kills are important but without support and without the right decission at the right time its useless.
So again, please give me arguments for K/D. I simply want to understand why this useless stat is still ingame.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then you completely ignored my post two posts above this one. Lovely how people selectively ignore what they don't want to see.
Why do they need to know what other players kills and deaths are ? Commanders will note who is always in the right place or is successfully pushing without looking at the kills and deaths, good players will be sticking out anyways.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're presenting what you want to happen and then calling it "mutually amicable." That's like me asking you for $10, you refusing, and me proposing a "mutually amicable solution" of $9.
The point of KDR information is about learning what is going on in the entire game. You don't get that from just your own personal kills and deaths. That's the entire point.
Your hypotheticals are still BS. I've never seen anyone say "OMG MY KDR IS GETTING LOWER, /DISCONNECT." In fact, I've never seen anyone say anything about KDR in game aside from people mentioning someone's amazingly high kdr such as 50-3. The problems you manufacture to try and support the removal of KDR simply do not exist.
If you're seriously angry about knowing how (in)effective you are as a player, you need to re-evaluate what you're doing a bit...
(or just make a UI mod and remove it)
Bestmedsineu bro.
That way people don't feel like they're taking a hit when they die, but feel good when they kill?
That way people don't feel like they're taking a hit when they die, but feel good when they kill?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
why not just replace the whole game with a LUA hugbox?
That way people don't feel like they're taking a hit when they die, but feel good when they kill?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If people feel like they're taking a hit when they die because of that little mark in the death column instead of the fact that they've lost time and all their pres gear then the problem is with their thinking.
<img src="http://static.themetapicture.com/media/funny-gif-asian-guy-thumbs-up.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Yes, NS2 is a team based game. But that doesn't mean individual players should not be rewarded and recognized for doing well.
Game mechanics like k/d and res for kill motivates players to improve, and gives them a way of gauging their improvement. Using a "points" system the way it is now gives the designers a good way of helping players understand what actions, besides killing, is useful to the team. It's impossible to get this perfect but it's a good metric to have. Likewise, K/D isn't a perfect metric by any means, but if you are 2/20 then you are doing something wrong. You should know that, and your team should know that. This is all part of motivating players to play the game well, which is more fun for everyone. Yes, there are some people who will miss the point of all this and behave selfishly, but that's relatively rare and when you have players behaving selfishly because of a score, they're jerks and they're going to be jerks no matter what the scoreboard says.
I think res for kill was taken away for similar reasons. The idea being that it isn't friendly to newer players and encourages "selfish" play. Again, I think it is impossible to prevent selfish players, you just want to avoid making being selfish too rewarding or necessary. Res for kill doesn't need to be hugely significant, but a small reward to better players can go a long way. It is a good mechanic to prevent the lame "res locked" defeat that can happen. It helps more skilled players have a bigger impact on the outcome of the game. It further motivates players to do well, rather than play carelessly. It also helps balance a player taking risks with their lifeform as long as they are paying off in kills. If a fade lives the whole game but never gets a kill they were pretty worthless. If someone dies several times as a fade but gets lots of kills/building destructions then their deaths were well worth it.
And lastly, it irks me that someone who is AFK earns more res than I do no matter how well I do in game ;) (no res during death)
I applaud Unknown World's efforts to make NS2 more accessible to a wider audience, and they've made a lot of great changes to get there. All the things that have made it easier for players to understand what they are suppose to do is really going to help new players. That said, at the end of the day, this is an asymmetric, unique RTSFPS with a pure melee side. It's a complicated game that is never going to fall into the "casual" category of games. It requires somewhat "hardcore" players. Unknown Worlds should not forget their target audience and remove things that hardcore players play for: Getting better and being recognized/rewarded for it.
0/10 will not read again.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You would be amazing as how harmful kdr can be to a teambased game sir, but i wont argue with you, as you wont read again anwyay.
what is the argument?
<!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><i><b>oh boo hoo sometimes idiots in pubs play poorly in the pursuit of a high KDR</b></i><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
nobody will do that in competition, where you can see clearly the analytical value of KDR
I just think it is being vastly overstated that K/D is even a problem. I hardly ever see it. People rage quit because they don't like losing, not because of k/d. People don't reset their score by reconnecting because they'll lose their res. Outside of that it is rather difficult to hurt your team by having a good k/d ratio... so what is the problem? Some players may play more selfishly but they are still helping the team. If NS2 had support classes that were vital to the team and no one was playing them that would be one thing... but that isn't the case with NS2.
I read your posts and simply dont hit the tab button isnt a clue.
My K/DR isnt interesting for me. Its always negative somtimes higher, sometimes not, the problem is that some people seems to focus too much on KDR and leaving the server or complaining about possible cheaters because they cant understand why they die all the time.
I had several games as a commander where i had the feeling that my faction had an advantage. One reason for loosing some of this game were that some players didnt listen to commander orders at the point where they had shotguns/upgrades/jetpacks/grenade launchers/ exos.
This is a closed beta, mostly with people who know NS1. Now think of the guys who will join NS2 when the game is published.
You have all kind of players in the teams and i bet that for most of this players K/D will be most important because they possibly see a Counterstrike against Aliens. I think if this K/D stat will be in the final version we can have serious problems in public plays and not everyone wants, or have the time to join clans for teamplay.
I still stick on a well thought point system for
-team support (heal/weld)
-joint attacks
-following orders
instead of points and K/D