To the people telling those who do not like this patch to suck it up and play more; it's akin to telling someone to keep hitting their hand with a hammer, and through the pain and broken bones they might find something enjoyable about it. Unless they're a masochist... then sure, why not.
One key thing you're forgetting is that for a successful game; the game needs to be accessable, easily picked up, and enjoyable within the first few hours of playing the game. We're already seeing a lot of problems with this patch as said multiple times throughout this thread.
Personally, I've stopped playing this game many months ago because the vanilla version was boring, the skulk game play was horrible (he was my main lifeform, then was the fade), the constant butchering of alien upgrades (adrenaline nerf, camoflague nerf, celerity taking ages to work in combat, list goes on) that I grew overly annoyed and bored with playing aliens that I shelved the game.
I've been sorta keeping tabs on the BT mod, watching to see where it was heading and if it might respark my interest in the game. The only thing that interested me in the entire mod was Biomass considering khamming was about as fun as watching paint dry, but sadly, the one good thing doesn't overweight the lot of bad things. Fade movement for example. Just watching that "tutorial" video a few pages back had me laughing in a pitiful kind of way. How is that any fun? How is that any more fun than alternating between blink + shadow step + and double jump to zip through the map and zig zag around marines? So we went ahead, butchered shadow step and removed double jump all in the name of bringing back a pseudo-bunny hop. Sorry, telling me to give it a try isn't going make me enjoy something I can already tell I don't like just by watching a video of it. It looks absolutely boring. Then we have the skulk. "Skulks moves now faster on walls". Great, still sounds like they're boring.
A few changes that were a long time coming. Alien spawn rates (about friggin time), regen in combat, adren un-nerfed, silence and camou combined, scaleable upgrades, and Aura... (still no focus) Wait, doesn't this kinda sound like another game that was released a long time ago under the same name. Something like Natural Selection. Interesting, that brings me to my next point.
If they had originally made this game a visual upgrade of Natural Selection, then built this mod upon that foundation, I'm sure a lot of complaints would be non-existant and there would have been a ton more people around still playing this game. Big shout out to the person(s) who didn't want that (or the projectile spores *wink*).
To the people telling those who do not like this patch to suck it up and play more; it's akin to telling someone to keep hitting their hand with a hammer, and through the pain and broken bones they might find something enjoyable about it.
If you'd ever actually done that you'd know the euphoria you experience from it is quite awesome.
@MisterNubs Kinda hard to take you seriously when you admit to not even trying to play. You judge based off of patch notes and a fade tutorial video..How do you expect people to read what you have to say and give it any more thought then a "lol"?
@MisterNubs Kinda hard to take you seriously when you admit to not even trying to play. You judge based off of patch notes and a fade tutorial video..How do you expect people to read what you have to say and give it any more thought then a "lol"?
Because, I know I enjoyed the previous fade movement model with shadow step, double jump and blink combination. The new movement model based of that "tutorial" video looks like a boring version of bunny hop that I have zero interest in trying. Just because 20 idiots find enjoyment in running through traffic, you telling me "well if you haven't tried it, you can't knock it" isn't going to win me over.
I see now that I was clearly wrong this entire time and that I should have given something I find no interested in a try to find out that I still have no interest in it!
You have shown me the light, Current1y!
You are truly a blessing in disguise and I wish you the best of luck in converting those bastardly nay-says that haunt these forums into true believers.
How dare they have their own opinions. Shameful beasts.
To have test several times the balance test before I can only observe the damage brought with this 250 build.
Seriously I do not understand how you could have officially put a system which does not take the road level balancing while the vanilla version is excellent.
Was coming back to the old vanilla version, otherwise I predicted a slow death of NS2.
For had talked about yesterday with many players, believe me you are wrong crossed with this release.
The test is in beta but not in official release...
To the people telling those who do not like this patch to suck it up and play more; it's akin to telling someone to keep hitting their hand with a hammer, and through the pain and broken bones they might find something enjoyable about it. Unless they're a masochist... then sure, why not.
One key thing you're forgetting is that for a successful game; the game needs to be accessable, easily picked up, and enjoyable within the first few hours of playing the game. We're already seeing a lot of problems with this patch as said multiple times throughout this thread.
Personally, I've stopped playing this game many months ago because the vanilla version was boring, the skulk game play was horrible (he was my main lifeform, then was the fade), the constant butchering of alien upgrades (adrenaline nerf, camoflague nerf, celerity taking ages to work in combat, list goes on) that I grew overly annoyed and bored with playing aliens that I shelved the game.
I've been sorta keeping tabs on the BT mod, watching to see where it was heading and if it might respark my interest in the game. The only thing that interested me in the entire mod was Biomass considering khamming was about as fun as watching paint dry, but sadly, the one good thing doesn't overweight the lot of bad things. Fade movement for example. Just watching that "tutorial" video a few pages back had me laughing in a pitiful kind of way. How is that any fun? How is that any more fun than alternating between blink + shadow step + and double jump to zip through the map and zig zag around marines? So we went ahead, butchered shadow step and removed double jump all in the name of bringing back a pseudo-bunny hop. Sorry, telling me to give it a try isn't going make me enjoy something I can already tell I don't like just by watching a video of it. It looks absolutely boring. Then we have the skulk. "Skulks moves now faster on walls". Great, still sounds like they're boring.
A few changes that were a long time coming. Alien spawn rates (about friggin time), regen in combat, adren un-nerfed, silence and camou combined, scaleable upgrades, and Aura... (still no focus) Wait, doesn't this kinda sound like another game that was released a long time ago under the same name. Something like Natural Selection. Interesting, that brings me to my next point.
If they had originally made this game a visual upgrade of Natural Selection, then built this mod upon that foundation, I'm sure a lot of complaints would be non-existant and there would have been a ton more people around still playing this game. Big shout out to the person(s) who didn't want that (or the projectile spores *wink*).
This post amazes me. I've started to type an answer 6 times now, but it is just so dumb and contradictory that you can't really say anything to it.
I see now that I was clearly wrong this entire time and that I should have given something I find no interested in a try to find out that I still have no interest in it!
You have shown me the light, Current1y!
You are truly a blessing in disguise and I wish you the best of luck in converting those bastardly nay-says that haunt these forums into true believers.
How dare they have their own opinions. Shameful beasts.
Actually.. your are certainly not alone in your opinions and in part i agree with them. However the people who generally give those opinions have sat down and actually played the game and given feedback on their experiences. I'll say it again..reading patch notes and saying you don't like this and don't like that carry almost zero weight in the grand scheme of things when you didn't actually PLAY THE GAME.
Personally I would like to see you play the mod for 10-20 hrs and come back and give your first impressions. Even if they are 100% the same as before I wouldn't mind seeing what experiences you had that gave you that opinion. I assume every one here posting likes the game enough to want to see it succeed and wants it to be fun for them to play. Giving opinions and feedback based off experience is an important step in making the game what we all want it to be.
Just like sewlek and UWE can't seem to articulate specifics about where and why some of the changes were made in the first place. A simple change to Skulk to have wall-jump would've been understandable. The tech-tree, I can tolerate.
But a wider LMG spread?
1ST-TECHPOINT PROTOLAB?
BIOMASS? BIOMASS??
There are very specific reasons behind every change that has been made, they have just been spread out over many forum posts, interviews, and interactions with Sewlek on the BT servers during the testing phase. It is a very time consuming process to write up all of the months of thought and back and forth discussion that are behind every change in that changelog, and at the end of the day, it will just lead to more arguments because not everyone is going to agree with our reasons behind the changes. We spend our time trying to improve the game in the ways that we feel are right, we can't be spending all of our time constantly and repeatedly defending those decisions.
For example the Rifle spread change. We've observed the difficulty that new and casual players have in hitting fast moving aliens, due to the very tight cluster of bullets that the rifle fired, yet in the hands of pro players with very good aim, it became basically a sniper rifle. Ideally all weapons scale with skill, of course, but we felt that the base weapon that marines start with should be a little more forgiving to players of all levels, and we wanted it to be harder to snipe aliens from such extreme distances. So, the spread was increased from 2 to 2.8, which is really not that large of a difference, and if it results in pro players not just relying on their aim but also on their strategic timing - do they allow that alien to get just a little bit closer to insure that more of their bullets don't miss, for example - then that is a good thing.
Now, of course there are going to be plenty of people who argue with that reasoning, and in fact many pages were filled in the BT mod thread with arguments on both sides regarding the rifle spread changes. Sewlek has heard from all sides, and at the end of the day he made the decision he felt was best. You just have to trust that a lot of deep thought, intense testing and observation, and a lot of serious discussion has gone into the changes that went live in 250, whether you've seen them specifically articulated or not.
still think adding some type of recoil effect would have solved the over all issue, but the purist brigade will always jump to shoot that down (presumably with no recoil)
ill finaly be able to get some alonetime with b250 today.
i have watched enough matches to know that aliens will most likely get sloughtered the first 2 weeks till pubbers like me get the hang of it, but the matches of equaly skilled teams have been awesome and diverse, im realy looking forward to jump in a server next month and have a match like that.
I annonying bug I just experienced: Was on alien side and we lost hive and after we lost it the dramatic music didnt stop playing
Happened to me a few times during BT, heard at least 2 complaints from 2 different people about that in 250.
Which means this have to be looked at. It is really annoying, I had to go to options and turn music off.
Because, I know I enjoyed the previous fade movement model with shadow step, double jump and blink combination. The new movement model based of that "tutorial" video looks like a boring version of bunny hop that I have zero interest in trying. Just because 20 idiots find enjoyment in running through traffic, you telling me "well if you haven't tried it, you can't knock it" isn't going to win me over.
You DO realize that fade essentially works on the same mechanics right? The only difference is you're using blink to do the job that shadowstep used to do, and there's no double jump so you have to jump more often...
Because, I know I enjoyed the previous fade movement model with shadow step, double jump and blink combination. The new movement model based of that "tutorial" video looks like a boring version of bunny hop that I have zero interest in trying. Just because 20 idiots find enjoyment in running through traffic, you telling me "well if you haven't tried it, you can't knock it" isn't going to win me over.
You DO realize that fade essentially works on the same mechanics right? The only difference is you're using blink to do the job that shadowstep used to do, and there's no double jump so you have to jump more often...
On top of that you have way more control than before. The only downside is you spend a lot more energy than before, but that's a fair price to pay for it.
It's hilarious how some *snip * Name calling is not permitted - Ironhorse spam Disagree and Abuse on posts with 100% undisagreeable content (i.e. you should try something first before bashing it down) just because it's pro-BT. I swear those people would Disagree with someone saying black is black if he didn't say how NS2 is dead first.
It's hilarious how some spam Disagree and Abuse on posts with 100% undisagreeable content (i.e. you should try something first before bashing it down) just because it's pro-BT. I swear those people would Disagree with someone saying black is black if he didn't say how NS2 is dead first.
... It is a very time consuming process to write up all of the months of thought and back and forth discussion that are behind every change in that changelog ...
I completely disagree. It's easy to say "Make Fade movement easier to learn", "Make the LMG less of a sniper rifle". If you can't distill the reason for the change(s) with a birds-eye view single sentence fragment, there's something wrong in the design process. I'd really like to see this outline for v250 in the most general terms. I'd guess this list is actually 10 lines long.
That being said, there's no need to go into the minutia of the choices made for the goal. Example: The LMG spread is still the smallest in any game I've played, so the "debate" over it is completely silly. The LMG and the Pistol should have distinct goals, and if you watched the last nights UWE Microtalk, you'd know that two attacks that do the same thing is bad design.
The worst possible outcome of this patch is that UWE sees the massive outcry at the bad and significant parts of BT and decides to never change anything or revert anything again. When people just want shit like the fade movement fixed.
Double jump removed? Shadowstep nerf then switching SS and Blink?
WHY. It just reeks of stupid random changes done to TEST balance. But not individually no, it was just thrown in with the rest of the changes for no god damn reason.
I have finally gotten fade down. I don't like the drop in damage as I think it is a bit nerfed for the 40 + upgrade res required, but after learning it, it is not as bad as people think.
So, is NS2 finished yet, or do I need to wait a few more months for UWE to get their shit together? Are we still in BETA? Just send me a PM when the game is ready to play.
I have finally gotten fade down. I don't like the drop in damage as I think it is a bit nerfed for the 40 + upgrade res required, but after learning it, it is not as bad as people think.
Thank you for being a reasonable player and actually trying it out before bashing the changes like crazy.
Just played a few rounds this morning, great fun. Really enjoying the new patch. There appear to be more options available earlier during the match (for both sides, weapons and upgrades seem to be coming out faster - or at least you don't always need to go down the same tech tree every time), which gives more chances for different strategies and such. Good times.
Even so ppl cried and called ns2 to be dead when 250 will be out, the players numbers are higher now.
We just need to see how high they stay.
Best argument in this thread so far is "its called Natural Selection" evolve or die.
This is exactly the kind of attitude that will destroy the community and the game. Evolve or die? Seriously?
It's a game. You're supposed to have fun in a game. You're not supposed to get pounded into the pavement because you haven't "evolved."
Good luck forcing rules like that onto players. That kind of elitism is the sure path to failure.
Please tread lightly with that "fun" argument. It leads down a terrible path. Many people do not "have fun" unless they win. At any given time fully half the people on any given server will lose. Should the game be changed so everyone wins?
Additionally, anything worth doing takes some time to learn. NS2 is far from the easiest game to pick up. Should the game be changed so that it is so dreadfully easy that everyone "wins" and "has fun" at the expense of the games depth? A game that is so simple and uncomplicated that there is no learning curve at all is just as likely to "destroy the community" if it ever builds one in the first place.
Even so ppl cried and called ns2 to be dead when 250 will be out, the players numbers are higher now.
We just need to see how high they stay.
Best argument in this thread so far is "its called Natural Selection" evolve or die.
This is exactly the kind of attitude that will destroy the community and the game. Evolve or die? Seriously?
It's a game. You're supposed to have fun in a game. You're not supposed to get pounded into the pavement because you haven't "evolved."
Good luck forcing rules like that onto players. That kind of elitism is the sure path to failure.
Whats the big deal with getting stomped for some rounds until you figured it out. As Fade I got stomped my first rounds as well, but I still saw the potential and what options I had, and how I could have done it better.
I don't understand why you feel like you have wasted time on mastering the vanilla movement, it is not something you can attach to your CV or something.
I've played every build and every version of skulk movement and this is finally one that feels right without being too strong. You can gain speed just like in 249 through gravity, you can walljump in a way that doesn't make it op like the 30 m/s crevice skulks in the beta builds and you even have some sort of "bunny hopping". It is practically supposed to cover everyones taste. You don't even need to master everything to be good. And it is not designed to be for the pros only (see "bunny hopping"). Jump queuing was made to make it easier for casuals.
There's a big difference from catering to those people and catering to those who are happy losing, but want to get a decent game out of it. Don't just discard the fun argument because of a minority of people who need to win every game to enjoy it.
There's a big difference from catering to those people and catering to those who are happy losing, but want to get a decent game out of it. Don't just discard the fun argument because of a minority of people who need to win every game to enjoy it.
I discount it when it is the only argument presented. It is sophistry at best when people use it as their only argument. If that poster had said "the tutorials are lacking, I can't practice because the teams are too stacked and it is no fun getting repeatedly curb stomped by better players who won't even teams" I probably wouldn't have commented at all.
Besides, I did say "tread lightly" not "STFU l2p n00b!"
Comments
One key thing you're forgetting is that for a successful game; the game needs to be accessable, easily picked up, and enjoyable within the first few hours of playing the game. We're already seeing a lot of problems with this patch as said multiple times throughout this thread.
Personally, I've stopped playing this game many months ago because the vanilla version was boring, the skulk game play was horrible (he was my main lifeform, then was the fade), the constant butchering of alien upgrades (adrenaline nerf, camoflague nerf, celerity taking ages to work in combat, list goes on) that I grew overly annoyed and bored with playing aliens that I shelved the game.
I've been sorta keeping tabs on the BT mod, watching to see where it was heading and if it might respark my interest in the game. The only thing that interested me in the entire mod was Biomass considering khamming was about as fun as watching paint dry, but sadly, the one good thing doesn't overweight the lot of bad things. Fade movement for example. Just watching that "tutorial" video a few pages back had me laughing in a pitiful kind of way. How is that any fun? How is that any more fun than alternating between blink + shadow step + and double jump to zip through the map and zig zag around marines? So we went ahead, butchered shadow step and removed double jump all in the name of bringing back a pseudo-bunny hop. Sorry, telling me to give it a try isn't going make me enjoy something I can already tell I don't like just by watching a video of it. It looks absolutely boring. Then we have the skulk. "Skulks moves now faster on walls". Great, still sounds like they're boring.
A few changes that were a long time coming. Alien spawn rates (about friggin time), regen in combat, adren un-nerfed, silence and camou combined, scaleable upgrades, and Aura... (still no focus) Wait, doesn't this kinda sound like another game that was released a long time ago under the same name. Something like Natural Selection. Interesting, that brings me to my next point.
If they had originally made this game a visual upgrade of Natural Selection, then built this mod upon that foundation, I'm sure a lot of complaints would be non-existant and there would have been a ton more people around still playing this game. Big shout out to the person(s) who didn't want that (or the projectile spores *wink*).
If you'd ever actually done that you'd know the euphoria you experience from it is quite awesome.
Go read this post - http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/comment/2126508/#Comment_2126508 it applies to you.
Because, I know I enjoyed the previous fade movement model with shadow step, double jump and blink combination. The new movement model based of that "tutorial" video looks like a boring version of bunny hop that I have zero interest in trying. Just because 20 idiots find enjoyment in running through traffic, you telling me "well if you haven't tried it, you can't knock it" isn't going to win me over.
Have this:
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTXeE_wquTbFL4lUBPzOZU9CbmYkHaWeGvwfxWB3cfF67h4zZs2Lg
Only fun the first time, it starts to lose it's appeal after doing it multiple times.
lol
How riveting!
I see now that I was clearly wrong this entire time and that I should have given something I find no interested in a try to find out that I still have no interest in it!
You have shown me the light, Current1y!
You are truly a blessing in disguise and I wish you the best of luck in converting those bastardly nay-says that haunt these forums into true believers.
How dare they have their own opinions. Shameful beasts.
To have test several times the balance test before I can only observe the damage brought with this 250 build.
Seriously I do not understand how you could have officially put a system which does not take the road level balancing while the vanilla version is excellent.
Was coming back to the old vanilla version, otherwise I predicted a slow death of NS2.
For had talked about yesterday with many players, believe me you are wrong crossed with this release.
The test is in beta but not in official release...
This post amazes me. I've started to type an answer 6 times now, but it is just so dumb and contradictory that you can't really say anything to it.
Actually.. your are certainly not alone in your opinions and in part i agree with them. However the people who generally give those opinions have sat down and actually played the game and given feedback on their experiences. I'll say it again..reading patch notes and saying you don't like this and don't like that carry almost zero weight in the grand scheme of things when you didn't actually PLAY THE GAME.
Personally I would like to see you play the mod for 10-20 hrs and come back and give your first impressions. Even if they are 100% the same as before I wouldn't mind seeing what experiences you had that gave you that opinion. I assume every one here posting likes the game enough to want to see it succeed and wants it to be fun for them to play. Giving opinions and feedback based off experience is an important step in making the game what we all want it to be.
still think adding some type of recoil effect would have solved the over all issue, but the purist brigade will always jump to shoot that down (presumably with no recoil)
i have watched enough matches to know that aliens will most likely get sloughtered the first 2 weeks till pubbers like me get the hang of it, but the matches of equaly skilled teams have been awesome and diverse, im realy looking forward to jump in a server next month and have a match like that.
Which means this have to be looked at. It is really annoying, I had to go to options and turn music off.
You DO realize that fade essentially works on the same mechanics right? The only difference is you're using blink to do the job that shadowstep used to do, and there's no double jump so you have to jump more often...
On top of that you have way more control than before. The only downside is you spend a lot more energy than before, but that's a fair price to pay for it.
Lol, I just had to disagree here.
I completely disagree. It's easy to say "Make Fade movement easier to learn", "Make the LMG less of a sniper rifle". If you can't distill the reason for the change(s) with a birds-eye view single sentence fragment, there's something wrong in the design process. I'd really like to see this outline for v250 in the most general terms. I'd guess this list is actually 10 lines long.
That being said, there's no need to go into the minutia of the choices made for the goal. Example: The LMG spread is still the smallest in any game I've played, so the "debate" over it is completely silly. The LMG and the Pistol should have distinct goals, and if you watched the last nights UWE Microtalk, you'd know that two attacks that do the same thing is bad design.
Double jump removed? Shadowstep nerf then switching SS and Blink?
WHY. It just reeks of stupid random changes done to TEST balance. But not individually no, it was just thrown in with the rest of the changes for no god damn reason.
still waiting for vanilla mod.
Thank you for being a reasonable player and actually trying it out before bashing the changes like crazy.
This is exactly the kind of attitude that will destroy the community and the game. Evolve or die? Seriously?
It's a game. You're supposed to have fun in a game. You're not supposed to get pounded into the pavement because you haven't "evolved."
Good luck forcing rules like that onto players. That kind of elitism is the sure path to failure.
Please tread lightly with that "fun" argument. It leads down a terrible path. Many people do not "have fun" unless they win. At any given time fully half the people on any given server will lose. Should the game be changed so everyone wins?
Additionally, anything worth doing takes some time to learn. NS2 is far from the easiest game to pick up. Should the game be changed so that it is so dreadfully easy that everyone "wins" and "has fun" at the expense of the games depth? A game that is so simple and uncomplicated that there is no learning curve at all is just as likely to "destroy the community" if it ever builds one in the first place.
Whats the big deal with getting stomped for some rounds until you figured it out. As Fade I got stomped my first rounds as well, but I still saw the potential and what options I had, and how I could have done it better.
I don't understand why you feel like you have wasted time on mastering the vanilla movement, it is not something you can attach to your CV or something.
I've played every build and every version of skulk movement and this is finally one that feels right without being too strong. You can gain speed just like in 249 through gravity, you can walljump in a way that doesn't make it op like the 30 m/s crevice skulks in the beta builds and you even have some sort of "bunny hopping". It is practically supposed to cover everyones taste. You don't even need to master everything to be good. And it is not designed to be for the pros only (see "bunny hopping"). Jump queuing was made to make it easier for casuals.
There's a big difference from catering to those people and catering to those who are happy losing, but want to get a decent game out of it. Don't just discard the fun argument because of a minority of people who need to win every game to enjoy it.
Flamethrower is overpowered
Jetpacks move entirely too fast .
I discount it when it is the only argument presented. It is sophistry at best when people use it as their only argument. If that poster had said "the tutorials are lacking, I can't practice because the teams are too stacked and it is no fun getting repeatedly curb stomped by better players who won't even teams" I probably wouldn't have commented at all.
Besides, I did say "tread lightly" not "STFU l2p n00b!"