It's also pretty ironic that you bring up the new relationship between UWE and NSL considering one of the biggest changes of this patch (medpack change) has been met with much critique within the competitive community on how it was implemented, probably not the best example...
Sorry to nitpick your post, just really wanted to bring up these factors before people make start making false assumptions.
To be fair, UWE put up a seperate build for NSL people where the medpack change isn't present, it's not like UWE does nothing but bad things.
I have many things to say, but don't really have time to write them up right now so I'll just bring up a few points. Firstly, Isn't naming and shaming against the rules on this forum? Either way, I don't even know who the dude you're talking about is and I think it's obvious this has nothing to do with the topic of this forum post.
It has more to do with the contents of the thread than you realise. You can just take my word for it on that. Also, If I'm being factual about his behaviour, I'm not shaming him, but if someone wants to moderate my post, thats up to them.
Also, just because the question was answered, doesn't mean it justifies what has been done to the ns2large servers, that is what is being discussed in the thread right now.
It doesn't warrant justification. BeigeAlert has explained the stance on NS2Large and other game-mode mods. They cannot be the first thing people encouter. Therefore they will not be the first thing people see.
It's also pretty ironic that you bring up the new relationship between UWE and NSL considering one of the biggest changes of this patch (medpack change) has been met with much critique within the competitive community on how it was implemented, probably not the best example...
There is more cooperation between UWE and the NSL now than there has been in a long time. Rantology communicates directly with the NSL and gathers their feedback. They have their own dedicated beta branch to preserve the game as they wish for season 9 - that's a pretty big deal.
@dopy perhaps the point that I linked you to the reply from a developer on page 1 of this thread. You skipped past that and went to a sensationalistic reply about the WoW comparison I made. Cherry-picking. It's a relevant comparison too because an .exe hack is actually technically reverse-engineering proprietary software. Though probably not one UWE would bother doing anything about. But therein lies the problem. You've mistaken tolerance with acceptance. You've assumed that because no direct, hard steps were taken to stop the change, that was the same thing as giving it a stamp of approval.
Honestly I am amazed that after some of the displays of attitude in this thread that there hasn't been a permanent solution introduced to permanently stop NS2Large existing.
You have a whitelist. You are one button away on the server browser. Both of these things could be much worse.
I'll try and TL;DR this as much as possible though.
Foxy, thankyou for the explanation but it does sound like you're punishing an entire community for the actions of one person, a person who doesn't even represent Woozas anymore.
I do know what you're talking about. ATF has declared we cannot be friends. He has issues, but then we all do, so I aim to have compassion.
It doesn't warrant justification. BeigeAlert has explained the stance on NS2Large and other game-mode mods. They cannot be the first thing people encouter. Therefore they will not be the first thing people see.
This is of course the crux of the issue I think. And one that I and many others clearly disagree with. Perhaps it's time for the PDT to change its view, in order for it to properly represent the entire community.
^Foxy - why does there need to be a permanent solution to stop NS2Large from existing? Are you saying that's what you want or suprised people didn't go to that extreme point? Yes, they are only one tab over, but why do you care where other people play NS2? Why make it harder to fill a very large server that would rely on tons of people seeing the server and joining it? The reality is, it hurts the server and hurts the players that prefer it. Everyone can go play in the server they prefer, but this change only hurts servers like Wooza's.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited April 2016
I see two conspiracies here:
Combat NS2large is syphoning players from NS2 (the way it is meant to be played)
UWE is actively working against modders, by hiding their servers on default server settings (and on NS2 reboot, by resetting that "ALL" -> "NS2" filter)
Both are silly........
Here's an easy fix, I've mentioned it a lot of times now...
REVERT the change and WAIT until you got a proper new and flashy server browser. You know the one that shows the server list and on the side in extra areas... server information/minimap/I'm so done here
You are the best example of a toxic community. Keep on going, your hate is boosting my servers.
This is the same categorie to me.
While you saying "My server is saving NS2 from dying", i say "Its part of the problem THAT its dying"
I think we both want that this game stays alive.
But we have different views on the problem.
Who is right or wrong, maybe a more neutral instance with more data knows more aka Devs.
And sometimes you have to change things some people might dont like if the goal is to keep a game alive.
Sometimes people are so involved that they cant see the real issues.
All i can say is, if the large servers are saving NS2, why is the game constantly losing players?
By your logic the playerammount should rise, cause the players out there can choose between the way they want to play.
Did i mention that that sometimes people are so involved that they cant see the real issues?
Yes, think so.
@dopy perhaps the point that I linked you to the reply from a developer on page 1 of this thread. You skipped past that and went to a sensationalistic reply about the WoW comparison I made. Cherry-picking. It's a relevant comparison too because an .exe hack is actually technically reverse-engineering proprietary software. Though probably not one UWE would bother doing anything about. But therein lies the problem. You've mistaken tolerance with acceptance. You've assumed that because no direct, hard steps were taken to stop the change, that was the same thing as giving it a stamp of approval.
Honestly I am amazed that after some of the displays of attitude in this thread that there hasn't been a permanent solution introduced to permanently stop NS2Large existing.
You have a whitelist. You are one button away on the server browser. Both of these things could be much worse.
I didn't bother replying to that "reason" because I already tried to get trough to you on discord, but you don't seem to understand that taking away choice from a group of people where they want to play is not a good thing, regardless of wether or not performance on wooza's is worse than a 24 slot server. People are not that damn stupid to think ns2 as a whole runs like it does on wooza's servers. And if people want their first experience to be on Wooza's UWE has no right to stop them. And before you go pointing out the server hack thing again, there's a trello card in the "active/whatever it's called" section that states there will be a new server executable with uncapped playercounts, so this "IS" something UWE wants to include, yet it's always 1 step forwards 2 steps back with UWE.
Look at Killing Floor 1 and 2, people made mods to allow for servers bigger than 6 slots, did Tripwire remove these servers? No, they disconnected them from level progression. People aren't stupid enough to think that a 42 slot KF server is "the norm", they know it's a mod, and it's the same for NS2.
UWE needs to stop babying people with trying to get them to play on "THE REAL CORE NS2 EXPERIENCEEEEEEEEE!!!!" and let people choose where they want to play.
Like I said yesterday, if I buy ns2, and I want my first experience to be on faded, you're god damn right i'm gonna go play faded as my first game, that's my choice.
If at the end of all this UWE still thinks that newbies don't "deserve" to play on non vanilla servers, I already put up a solution that resolves this. Remove the server list option for greens, and force them to use "play now" until they lose their newbie status.
But for that to work you guys need to fix your horrible excuse for a hive skill tracking system ofcourse.
Honestly I am amazed that after some of the displays of attitude in this thread that there hasn't been a permanent solution introduced to permanently stop NS2Large existing.
You have a whitelist. You are one button away on the server browser. Both of these things could be much worse.
Why would anyone be so against NS2large? I mean honestly, sure, you guys think that's not the way NS2 is supposed to be played, but why be so upset about it that you block the new community from seeing it?
Games like CS and Killing Floor have extremely large modded communities, just like NS2, but they don't hide them from new players, infact, they welcome it. People like myself, who've played these games for so long it's become a bore with so little players, need something new and exciting. I have over 3000 hours in CSS, and I can assure you, only about 20 hours of that I played vanilla CSS, because it's so basic and boring.
The WoW comparison was a bit not needed, since NS2 is nothing like WoW, if you want to compare games, compare it to a game like Killing Floor
If people are so against NS2Large servers, then they can simply disconnect it from the official Hive if they so want, since Hive is such a big thing on this game, same as the KF developers did for modded servers, only white listed servers are able to level you up, it's just that simple.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but I think it's silly that, after so long the game has been out, something like this is just suddenly changed, is making the community smaller than it already is, if I wasn't told that I had to check the filters to find Wooza, I would've probably stopped playing NS2 all together, I know that there's a lot of others who feel this way.
@dopy perhaps the point that I linked you to the reply from a developer on page 1 of this thread. You skipped past that and went to a sensationalistic reply about the WoW comparison I made. Cherry-picking. It's a relevant comparison too because an .exe hack is actually technically reverse-engineering proprietary software. Though probably not one UWE would bother doing anything about. But therein lies the problem. You've mistaken tolerance with acceptance. You've assumed that because no direct, hard steps were taken to stop the change, that was the same thing as giving it a stamp of approval.
Honestly I am amazed that after some of the displays of attitude in this thread that there hasn't been a permanent solution introduced to permanently stop NS2Large existing.
You have a whitelist. You are one button away on the server browser. Both of these things could be much worse.
I didn't bother replying to that "reason" because I already tried to get trough to you on discord, but you don't seem to understand that taking away choice from a group of people where they want to play is not a good thing, regardless of wether or not performance on wooza's is worse than a 24 slot server. People are not that damn stupid to think ns2 as a whole runs like it does on wooza's servers. And if people want their first experience to be on Wooza's UWE has no right to stop them. And before you go pointing out the server hack thing again, there's a trello card in the "active/whatever it's called" section that states there will be a new server executable with uncapped playercounts, so this "IS" something UWE wants to include, yet it's always 1 step forwards 2 steps back with UWE.
Look at Killing Floor 1 and 2, people made mods to allow for servers bigger than 6 slots, did Tripwire remove these servers? No, they disconnected them from level progression. People aren't stupid enough to think that a 42 slot KF server is "the norm", they know it's a mod, and it's the same for NS2.
UWE needs to stop babying people with trying to get them to play on "THE REAL CORE NS2 EXPERIENCEEEEEEEEE!!!!" and let people choose where they want to play.
Like I said yesterday, if I buy ns2, and I want my first experience to be on faded, you're god damn right i'm gonna go play faded as my first game, that's my choice.
If at the end of all this UWE still thinks that newbies don't "deserve" to play on non vanilla servers, I already put up a solution that resolves this. Remove the server list option for greens, and force them to use "play now" until they lose their newbie status.
But for that to work you guys need to fix your horrible excuse for a hive skill tracking system ofcourse.
NS2 is losing players because it has a steep learning curve, however ns2large is losing less players than normal ns2.
Though check steamcharts, ns2 has been getting more active players lately. (from 350 average at peak to 590 at peak).
You are the best example of a toxic community. Keep on going, your hate is boosting my servers.
This is the same categorie to me.
While you saying "My server is saving NS2 from dying", i say "Its part of the problem THAT its dying"
I think we both want that this game stays alive.
But we have different views on the problem.
Who is right or wrong, maybe a more neutral instance with more data knows more aka Devs.
And sometimes you have to change things some people might dont like if the goal is to keep a game alive.
Sometimes people are so involved that they cant see the real issues.
All i can say is, if the large servers are saving NS2, why is the game constantly losing players?
By your logic the playerammount should rise, cause the players out there can choose between the way they want to play.
Did i mention that that sometimes people are so involved that they cant see the real issues?
Yes, think so.
OK, I don't think you needed to make this point. Trying to say people that prefer Wooza's server can't see the real issues. This is nonsense. People prefer the Wooza server style for their own reasons. You don't have to agree with them, but that's what they prefer. If it's a new player then maybe it's their first server, but if it's anyone who isn't a rookie - they probably have played on other servers at some point and prefer Wooza's. What bigger picture is there to see? What master plan is there to see? It's like you're waiting for some magical update that will make the game so much better for 12v12 or below and Wooza's will stop being fun for people. People just prefer Wooza's, it's fun for them. Let them have their fun.
there are new players and even experienced players who play on woozas servers who have NEVER played on any other server and likely never will. Woozas server has its own community seperate to the rest of ns2 as well as sharing the community of ns2.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Bunnyhopping wasn't supposed to be how the game was played, yet was a HUGE part in Quake/Unreal-likes (NS)
Rocketjumping wasn't supposed to be how the game was played, yet was a HUGE part in in Quake/Unreal-likes
Grenadejumping wasn't supposed to be how the game was played, yet was a HUGE part in in Quake/Unreal-likes
Air control wasn't supposed to be how the game was played, yet was a HUGE part in in Quake/Unreal-likes
Airstrafing wasn't supposed to be how the game was played, yet was a HUGE part in in Quake/Unreal-likes
Driving jeeps around full of expacks wasn't supposed to be how the game was played, yet was a HUGE part to making the BF series fun
Crashing planes into ships wasn't supposed to be how the game was played, yet was a HUGE part to making the BF series fun
Knifebuggin wasn't supposed to be how the game was played, yet was a HUGE part of BF1942 infantry combat
Quickscoping wasn't supposed to be how the game was played, yet was a HUGE part of various tactical shooters
COOP wasn't supposed to be part of the game, yet Sven Coop was a HUGE part in telling us otherwise
Gameplay mods weren't supposed to be part of the game, yet here we are...
NS2large wasn't supposed to be how the game was played, yet was a HUGE part for newbies to play without the immense stress of smaller playercounts
Me too we still got wooza on ark survival evolved maybe we can make a real time strategy game out of it with extensions from modders that can fix the frames and add skins to pretend some people are aliens *trollface*
wish i could play on ark but my pc isnt good enough to run it even on low settings
His servers were pretty much removed, after the update hit nobody knew his servers were still up simply because people don't bother reading patchnotes, espescially new people.
@dopy, yes "espescially for new people". Exactly as intended.
(although, I'll repeat once more: the server list menu can't exist in current state)
His servers were pretty much removed, after the update hit nobody knew his servers were still up simply because people don't bother reading patchnotes, espescially new people.
@dopy, yes "espescially for new people". Exactly as intended.
(although, I'll repeat once more: the server list menu can't exist in current state)
I understand it's "as intended", but this shouldn't ever have been UWE's intention to begin with, they're taking away choice from people and that's just despicable, just because ns2large is not the ns2 experience in their eyes does not mean they should force people to play where they want them to play.
... there's a trello card in the "active/whatever it's called" section that states there will be a new server executable with uncapped playercounts, so this "IS" something UWE wants to include, yet it's always 1 step forwards 2 steps back with UWE.
@dopy used another wild assumption.. It's super effective!
I have it on good authority that the hard-cap is being removed because it isn't necessary anymore. Essentially meaning if you want to run a godawful 99 slot server, then go for it. Just don't come crying when you get less FPS than you have limbs on your body. Don't mistake that for UWE supporting it though!
If people are so against NS2Large servers, then they can simply disconnect it from the official Hive if they so want, since Hive is such a big thing on this game, same as the KF developers did for modded servers, only white listed servers are able to level you up, it's just that simple.
I assume you are Mrs. Dopy, Welcome to the forums and thanks for making your first post a constructive well thought-out one. Removing the whitelist from NS2Large was discussed many times before and it predictably met with the same protest and hostility as any change that directly or indirectly affects NS2Large.
The main thing to remember here and the thing that is constantly lost in thousands of shit-posts is that UWE have never actually officially said they are against NS2Large.
They HAVE said that it's not how NS2 was intended and they don't want it to be the first thing a new player encounters. But other than that, they have indirectly supported it in ways that are never publicised here, because it doesn't help the conspiracy theorists' argument.
^Foxy - why does there need to be a permanent solution to stop NS2Large from existing? Are you saying that's what you want or suprised people didn't go to that extreme point?
The latter, @Deck_. I am astonished that something hasn't been done. Some of the posts in here are merely childish, some are just plain nasty. The Devs really don't deserve abuse. They have provided thousands of hours of entertainment for all of us.
I just hope people can grasp that UWE are not dictating where people should play, they are just pointing people in a specific direction for the first few times they play the game.
dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
@Deck_
All i can say is that i replied countless times on steam forum on posts like this:
"I have so low fps and the game is stuttering, any tips"
I gave them tips how they can check what is the bottleneck and had always to ask:
"On what server are you playing?"
And when i say "Sometimes people are so involved that they cant see the real issues." its going to everyone here, me included.
Im sure both sides have valid points and the truth lies in the middle. (as always)
So the solution choosen by the devs:
Server is still there but "hidden" behind one click is a fair compromiss i think.
So people like me can still complain that the server is up, the community can still play on it and there might be less complains about performance from new players.
His servers were pretty much removed, after the update hit nobody knew his servers were still up simply because people don't bother reading patchnotes, espescially new people.
@dopy, yes "espescially for new people". Exactly as intended.
(although, I'll repeat once more: the server list menu can't exist in current state)
I understand it's "as intended", but this shouldn't ever have been UWE's intention to begin with, they're taking away choice from people and that's just despicable, just because ns2large is not the ns2 experience in their eyes does not mean they should force people to play where they want them to play.
Mathematically, ns2large "forcing" people to play it if it's on the same list. It's just better in terms of getting a commander and maintaining playable player count.
^Foxy, the problem is it doesn't just direct the rookies. It also directs the veterans who like Wooza's but now the server doesn't fill or they don't see it where they were use to seeing it. If the devs want to add something to stop rookies from playing on high player count servers (because of some notion that they will see the game at it's best potential state) then introduce some ways to make rookies play on only rookie servers for first couple times they play. Or stop them from joining large servers for first 1-5 hours of gameplay or something. The problem is, this change hurts not just the server from filling, but hurts the chance for veterans who prefer Wooza's to play the game the way they want.
Server is still there but "hidden" behind one click is a fair compromiss i think.
Nope, because it hides all "gameplay mods", the entire idea is silly and a way too simple implementation to add functionality which should be worked out in a much better way. The way it should've been handled is AFTER the new serverbrowser was finished with proper server information displayed next to the list of servers...
The point is to NEVER hide servers, just provide the information about them much more clearly...
^Foxy, the problem is it doesn't just direct the rookies. It also directs the veterans who like Wooza's but now the server doesn't fill or they don't see it where they were use to seeing it. If the devs want to add something to stop rookies from playing on high player count servers (because of some notion that they will see the game at it's best potential state) then introduce some ways to make rookies play on only rookie servers for first couple times they play. Or stop them from joining large servers for first 1-5 hours of gameplay or something. The problem is, this change hurts not just the server from filling, but hurts the chance for veterans who prefer Wooza's to play the game the way they want.
Sorry but this argument holds no weight. A veteran who either a) doesn't know how the server browser works or b) doesn't have any friends to tell them how it works or where the NS2Large servers are is not really a veteran. This change was put in for rookies. It was the best way to achieve the goal.
Its also worth noting that TacticalGamer is hidden by this change but I've not seen a single protest from the regulars or the owner of that server.
^Foxy, the problem is it doesn't just direct the rookies. It also directs the veterans who like Wooza's but now the server doesn't fill or they don't see it where they were use to seeing it. If the devs want to add something to stop rookies from playing on high player count servers (because of some notion that they will see the game at it's best potential state) then introduce some ways to make rookies play on only rookie servers for first couple times they play. Or stop them from joining large servers for first 1-5 hours of gameplay or something. The problem is, this change hurts not just the server from filling, but hurts the chance for veterans who prefer Wooza's to play the game the way they want.
Sorry but this argument holds no weight. A veteran who either a) doesn't know how the server browser works or b) doesn't have any friends to tell them how it works or where the NS2Large servers are is not really a veteran. This change was put in for rookies. It was the best way to achieve the goal.
Its also worth noting that TacticalGamer is hidden by this change but I've not seen a single protest from the regulars or the owner of that server.
That's because Wooza's depends on very high player numbers and needs rookies to make it work. Tactical gamer has a process for not being booted from their server and has a very established player base with a much lower player count needed to get it to work. The requirements are completely different to get back to the experience people had before the update.
@Deck_
All i can say is that i replied countless times on steam forum on posts like this:
"I have so low fps and the game is stuttering, any tips"
I gave them tips how they can check what is the bottleneck and had always to ask:
"On what server are you playing?"
And when i say "Sometimes people are so involved that they cant see the real issues." its going to everyone here, me included.
Im sure both sides have valid points and the truth lies in the middle. (as always)
So the solution choosen by the devs:
Server is still there but "hidden" behind one click is a fair compromiss i think.
So people like me can still complain that the server is up, the community can still play on it and there might be less complains about performance from new players.
I see now that your point was talking more about everyone not seeing the real issues. I just think that is such a dev perspective point, or what UWE would love for us to think. I just don't think it holds any weight for people's enjoyment of the game. No compromise is needed, just let people player where they want to play easily.
if people want their first experience to be on Wooza's UWE has no right to stop them.
Wrong, they have every right, and every means to ensure their customers get to experience the work that so many people put so much time and money into over many years.
If anyone had the right to decide what occurs in this product, it is them, as it's their product and not yours, whether you like it or not.
I don't get this entitlement mentality, or this hyper victimization.
People seem to keep forgetting that
24+ servers have been allowed to exist for years now when they could have easily been shut off at any time (for those claiming "you wouldn't because of the player loss", I think of this)
Development time and money has been put into fixing 24+ specific issues and optimizations in the past despite not being officially supported.
They are whitelisted
We have put up with so much crap, hatred and conspiracy theories for years now from some members of that community, it's become white noise.
24+ servers are still being populated to max capacity despite this change. So maybe it's not the end of the world after all??
UWE and UWE alone gets to dictate what occurs in their product. They are very open to feedback, but in the end it is their product and their decision on what to support.
^Foxy, the problem is it doesn't just direct the rookies. It also directs the veterans who like Wooza's but now the server doesn't fill or they don't see it where they were use to seeing it. If the devs want to add something to stop rookies from playing on high player count servers (because of some notion that they will see the game at it's best potential state) then introduce some ways to make rookies play on only rookie servers for first couple times they play. Or stop them from joining large servers for first 1-5 hours of gameplay or something. The problem is, this change hurts not just the server from filling, but hurts the chance for veterans who prefer Wooza's to play the game the way they want.
It was the best way to achieve the goal..
Nooooooooooooo, it was the simplest way to achieve from a coding perspective. And that goal was overshot and completely implemented in a wrong way.
Comments
It has more to do with the contents of the thread than you realise. You can just take my word for it on that. Also, If I'm being factual about his behaviour, I'm not shaming him, but if someone wants to moderate my post, thats up to them.
It doesn't warrant justification. BeigeAlert has explained the stance on NS2Large and other game-mode mods. They cannot be the first thing people encouter. Therefore they will not be the first thing people see.
There is more cooperation between UWE and the NSL now than there has been in a long time. Rantology communicates directly with the NSL and gathers their feedback. They have their own dedicated beta branch to preserve the game as they wish for season 9 - that's a pretty big deal.
Not a problem, all valid concerns.
Honestly I am amazed that after some of the displays of attitude in this thread that there hasn't been a permanent solution introduced to permanently stop NS2Large existing.
You have a whitelist. You are one button away on the server browser. Both of these things could be much worse.
I do know what you're talking about. ATF has declared we cannot be friends. He has issues, but then we all do, so I aim to have compassion.
This is of course the crux of the issue I think. And one that I and many others clearly disagree with. Perhaps it's time for the PDT to change its view, in order for it to properly represent the entire community.
If it doesn't, then it's not.
Combat NS2large is syphoning players from NS2 (the way it is meant to be played)
UWE is actively working against modders, by hiding their servers on default server settings (and on NS2 reboot, by resetting that "ALL" -> "NS2" filter)
Both are silly........
Here's an easy fix, I've mentioned it a lot of times now...
REVERT the change and WAIT until you got a proper new and flashy server browser. You know the one that shows the server list and on the side in extra areas... server information/minimap/I'm so done here
o/
So YOU are THE PLAYERS now. Interisting.
Looks like some sort of megalomania to me.
This is the same categorie to me.
While you saying "My server is saving NS2 from dying", i say "Its part of the problem THAT its dying"
I think we both want that this game stays alive.
But we have different views on the problem.
Who is right or wrong, maybe a more neutral instance with more data knows more aka Devs.
And sometimes you have to change things some people might dont like if the goal is to keep a game alive.
Sometimes people are so involved that they cant see the real issues.
All i can say is, if the large servers are saving NS2, why is the game constantly losing players?
By your logic the playerammount should rise, cause the players out there can choose between the way they want to play.
Did i mention that that sometimes people are so involved that they cant see the real issues?
Yes, think so.
I didn't bother replying to that "reason" because I already tried to get trough to you on discord, but you don't seem to understand that taking away choice from a group of people where they want to play is not a good thing, regardless of wether or not performance on wooza's is worse than a 24 slot server. People are not that damn stupid to think ns2 as a whole runs like it does on wooza's servers. And if people want their first experience to be on Wooza's UWE has no right to stop them. And before you go pointing out the server hack thing again, there's a trello card in the "active/whatever it's called" section that states there will be a new server executable with uncapped playercounts, so this "IS" something UWE wants to include, yet it's always 1 step forwards 2 steps back with UWE.
Look at Killing Floor 1 and 2, people made mods to allow for servers bigger than 6 slots, did Tripwire remove these servers? No, they disconnected them from level progression. People aren't stupid enough to think that a 42 slot KF server is "the norm", they know it's a mod, and it's the same for NS2.
UWE needs to stop babying people with trying to get them to play on "THE REAL CORE NS2 EXPERIENCEEEEEEEEE!!!!" and let people choose where they want to play.
Like I said yesterday, if I buy ns2, and I want my first experience to be on faded, you're god damn right i'm gonna go play faded as my first game, that's my choice.
If at the end of all this UWE still thinks that newbies don't "deserve" to play on non vanilla servers, I already put up a solution that resolves this. Remove the server list option for greens, and force them to use "play now" until they lose their newbie status.
But for that to work you guys need to fix your horrible excuse for a hive skill tracking system ofcourse.
Why would anyone be so against NS2large? I mean honestly, sure, you guys think that's not the way NS2 is supposed to be played, but why be so upset about it that you block the new community from seeing it?
Games like CS and Killing Floor have extremely large modded communities, just like NS2, but they don't hide them from new players, infact, they welcome it. People like myself, who've played these games for so long it's become a bore with so little players, need something new and exciting. I have over 3000 hours in CSS, and I can assure you, only about 20 hours of that I played vanilla CSS, because it's so basic and boring.
The WoW comparison was a bit not needed, since NS2 is nothing like WoW, if you want to compare games, compare it to a game like Killing Floor
If people are so against NS2Large servers, then they can simply disconnect it from the official Hive if they so want, since Hive is such a big thing on this game, same as the KF developers did for modded servers, only white listed servers are able to level you up, it's just that simple.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but I think it's silly that, after so long the game has been out, something like this is just suddenly changed, is making the community smaller than it already is, if I wasn't told that I had to check the filters to find Wooza, I would've probably stopped playing NS2 all together, I know that there's a lot of others who feel this way.
NS2 is losing players because it has a steep learning curve, however ns2large is losing less players than normal ns2.
Though check steamcharts, ns2 has been getting more active players lately. (from 350 average at peak to 590 at peak).
OK, I don't think you needed to make this point. Trying to say people that prefer Wooza's server can't see the real issues. This is nonsense. People prefer the Wooza server style for their own reasons. You don't have to agree with them, but that's what they prefer. If it's a new player then maybe it's their first server, but if it's anyone who isn't a rookie - they probably have played on other servers at some point and prefer Wooza's. What bigger picture is there to see? What master plan is there to see? It's like you're waiting for some magical update that will make the game so much better for 12v12 or below and Wooza's will stop being fun for people. People just prefer Wooza's, it's fun for them. Let them have their fun.
Rocketjumping wasn't supposed to be how the game was played, yet was a HUGE part in in Quake/Unreal-likes
Grenadejumping wasn't supposed to be how the game was played, yet was a HUGE part in in Quake/Unreal-likes
Air control wasn't supposed to be how the game was played, yet was a HUGE part in in Quake/Unreal-likes
Airstrafing wasn't supposed to be how the game was played, yet was a HUGE part in in Quake/Unreal-likes
Driving jeeps around full of expacks wasn't supposed to be how the game was played, yet was a HUGE part to making the BF series fun
Crashing planes into ships wasn't supposed to be how the game was played, yet was a HUGE part to making the BF series fun
Knifebuggin wasn't supposed to be how the game was played, yet was a HUGE part of BF1942 infantry combat
Quickscoping wasn't supposed to be how the game was played, yet was a HUGE part of various tactical shooters
COOP wasn't supposed to be part of the game, yet Sven Coop was a HUGE part in telling us otherwise
Gameplay mods weren't supposed to be part of the game, yet here we are...
NS2large wasn't supposed to be how the game was played, yet was a HUGE part for newbies to play without the immense stress of smaller playercounts
wish i could play on ark but my pc isnt good enough to run it even on low settings
@dopy, yes "espescially for new people". Exactly as intended.
(although, I'll repeat once more: the server list menu can't exist in current state)
Welcome to the internet where everyone has an opinion and everyones opinion matters.
I understand it's "as intended", but this shouldn't ever have been UWE's intention to begin with, they're taking away choice from people and that's just despicable, just because ns2large is not the ns2 experience in their eyes does not mean they should force people to play where they want them to play.
Not everyone's opinion matters, only the ones that make sense. The rest are smelly and should be made fun off
@dopy used another wild assumption.. It's super effective!
I have it on good authority that the hard-cap is being removed because it isn't necessary anymore. Essentially meaning if you want to run a godawful 99 slot server, then go for it. Just don't come crying when you get less FPS than you have limbs on your body. Don't mistake that for UWE supporting it though!
I assume you are Mrs. Dopy, Welcome to the forums and thanks for making your first post a constructive well thought-out one. Removing the whitelist from NS2Large was discussed many times before and it predictably met with the same protest and hostility as any change that directly or indirectly affects NS2Large.
The main thing to remember here and the thing that is constantly lost in thousands of shit-posts is that UWE have never actually officially said they are against NS2Large.
They HAVE said that it's not how NS2 was intended and they don't want it to be the first thing a new player encounters. But other than that, they have indirectly supported it in ways that are never publicised here, because it doesn't help the conspiracy theorists' argument.
The latter, @Deck_. I am astonished that something hasn't been done. Some of the posts in here are merely childish, some are just plain nasty. The Devs really don't deserve abuse. They have provided thousands of hours of entertainment for all of us.
I just hope people can grasp that UWE are not dictating where people should play, they are just pointing people in a specific direction for the first few times they play the game.
All i can say is that i replied countless times on steam forum on posts like this:
"I have so low fps and the game is stuttering, any tips"
I gave them tips how they can check what is the bottleneck and had always to ask:
"On what server are you playing?"
And when i say "Sometimes people are so involved that they cant see the real issues." its going to everyone here, me included.
Im sure both sides have valid points and the truth lies in the middle. (as always)
So the solution choosen by the devs:
Server is still there but "hidden" behind one click is a fair compromiss i think.
So people like me can still complain that the server is up, the community can still play on it and there might be less complains about performance from new players.
Mathematically, ns2large "forcing" people to play it if it's on the same list. It's just better in terms of getting a commander and maintaining playable player count.
Nope, because it hides all "gameplay mods", the entire idea is silly and a way too simple implementation to add functionality which should be worked out in a much better way. The way it should've been handled is AFTER the new serverbrowser was finished with proper server information displayed next to the list of servers...
The point is to NEVER hide servers, just provide the information about them much more clearly...
Sorry but this argument holds no weight. A veteran who either a) doesn't know how the server browser works or b) doesn't have any friends to tell them how it works or where the NS2Large servers are is not really a veteran. This change was put in for rookies. It was the best way to achieve the goal.
Its also worth noting that TacticalGamer is hidden by this change but I've not seen a single protest from the regulars or the owner of that server.
That's because Wooza's depends on very high player numbers and needs rookies to make it work. Tactical gamer has a process for not being booted from their server and has a very established player base with a much lower player count needed to get it to work. The requirements are completely different to get back to the experience people had before the update.
I see now that your point was talking more about everyone not seeing the real issues. I just think that is such a dev perspective point, or what UWE would love for us to think. I just don't think it holds any weight for people's enjoyment of the game. No compromise is needed, just let people player where they want to play easily.
That's crazy talk.
If anyone had the right to decide what occurs in this product, it is them, as it's their product and not yours, whether you like it or not.
I don't get this entitlement mentality, or this hyper victimization.
People seem to keep forgetting that
So this HUUGE community need rookies to have a working server.
Thats a interisting point.
My statement was more: There has not changed that much.
Nooooooooooooo, it was the simplest way to achieve from a coding perspective. And that goal was overshot and completely implemented in a wrong way.
@Kouji_San
youmightgoinsanefrompreachinglogic
Thanks for the headsup @Kouji_San I'll leave this here thread. Good eye there, thanks!