Dual Update for Soldier and Demo

Svenpa

The weapon will be given to them,
from a launcher built by the engineer.

I pray for above scenario.

Kouji_San

<!--quoteo(post=1743449:date=Dec 11 2009, 07:10 PM:name=Svenpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Svenpa @ Dec 11 2009, 07:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1743449"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The weapon will be given to them,
from a launcher built by the engineer.

I pray for above scenario.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

And they have to sticky/rocket jump to catch it!

remi

After playing NS for the last two weeks or so, TF2 has lost its charm. There's no com to drop me medpacks, it's less skill based... *shrug*

I'm going to go make a mod now so that you can "choose any class" in a red demo vs blu soldier game, while still looking like said class.

:D

Svenpa

So, how to stop anyone cheating on this? I bet they have stopped bots from counting as score, but what about just being a large group/clan on a custom server with no respawn times and blowing away demo/soldjas like mad for hours?

lolfighter

The sheer, mind-numbing boredom of such an exercise?

Svenpa

Just like idling for hats, right?

Align

At least you don't have to be at the keyboard for that.
More comparable is the achievement grind maps.
Let's just hope the two sides balance each other out in amounts of cheating.

ZiGGY

<!--quoteo(post=1743484:date=Dec 11 2009, 09:40 PM:name=Svenpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Svenpa @ Dec 11 2009, 09:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1743484"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just like idling for hats, right?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think the keyword in this fool's logic is the word "idle". :P

X_Stickman

There are bot spawning maps that have bots continuously respawn almost instantly in the same place, and have them just stand there. These same maps also have resupply cabinets everywhere.

Aim rocket launcher/grenade launcher at spot, type +fire into console, leave. No recoil means the aim won't be thrown off, resupply cabinet means ammo will never run out. Come back in an hour or whatever. Hell I've done this with engineer in a live game when I've gone to the toilet or to get a drink or something. Sit within range of my sentry and dispenser, +crouch and +fire in the console with my wrench out. Auto-engy!



Not saying that anyone *will* cheat this (it seems fairly pointless since it's not a personal achievement, it's a class wide thing that an individual probably can't influence that much), but it really wouldn't be that hard to do.

Thansal

<!--quoteo(post=1743479:date=Dec 11 2009, 04:51 PM:name=Svenpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Svenpa @ Dec 11 2009, 04:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1743479"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So, how to stop anyone cheating on this? I bet they have stopped bots from counting as score, but what about just being a large group/clan on a custom server with no respawn times and blowing away demo/soldjas like mad for hours?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Finding servers/maps/rounds/whatever where there are 100 soldier deaths, and 0 demo deaths? that just might be some one trying to game the system.

Really, for it to effect the outcome, the numbers would have to be extreme, and thus easy to pick out.

Align

<!--quoteo(post=1743511:date=Dec 12 2009, 02:53 AM:name=X_Stickman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (X_Stickman @ Dec 12 2009, 02:53 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1743511"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There are bot spawning maps that have bots continuously respawn almost instantly in the same place, and have them just stand there.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pretty sure servers with bots on them aren't counted, any more than for achievements.

Thansal

<!--quoteo(post=1743561:date=Dec 12 2009, 10:17 AM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ Dec 12 2009, 10:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1743561"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Pretty sure servers with bots on them aren't counted, any more than for achievements.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unless that was in an update I missed, they do count for achievements.

Align

I don't think it was in an update because it goes without saying? Like not counting it on servers with sv_cheats on (though that could be gamed, for a while).

X_Stickman

At the very least bots *used* to count for achievements. Because I've used them for that.

Rob

Bots count for achievements, but not for the war. Just killed hundreds of them on that training map: <a href="http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=8909" target="_blank">http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=8909</a>

Thansal

new stuff:
It's offical, TF2 is an MMO: <a href="http://www.teamfortress.com/crafting/" target="_blank">Source</a>
Saxton Hale is still amusing: <a href="http://www.teamfortress.com/war/saxtonhale/" target="_blank">Source</a>
Hidden link in Saxton Hale Comic: <a href="http://www.teamfortress.com/war/saxtonhale/poopyjoe.htm" target="_blank">Source</a>

remi

I've done it.

Made a plugin that lets you play with any class's weapons while still being all demo vs soldier.
Check it out in the TF2 forums, and reply to it there (as well as here) so that it gets more exposure!

<a href="http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1061556" target="_blank">http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/show...d.php?t=1061556</a>

Also, if you've got any server friends I'd really love to see this plugin actually tried out... So if you like it, poke them, and let me know if a server is going to be running it! :)

lolfighter

<!--quoteo(post=1743662:date=Dec 13 2009, 01:29 PM:name=Thansal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thansal @ Dec 13 2009, 01:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1743662"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's offical, TF2 is an MMO: <a href="http://www.teamfortress.com/crafting/" target="_blank">Source</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What, and Guild Wars isn't? ###### that noise, it takes a bit more. Come back when the game has 400 people on one map and we'll talk.

Kouji_San

Also it has always been some form of RPG (just like NS with classes you can play :P)

Thansal

<!--quoteo(post=1743687:date=Dec 13 2009, 03:32 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Dec 13 2009, 03:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1743687"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also it has always been some form of RPG (just like NS with classes you can play :P)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, lolf is just being silly and intentionally missing the reference to the fact that with the random drops people started ###### about how they were turning TF2 into an MMO.

Kouji_San

I know LF is silly :P

But "MMO" means more players, RPG forces people into roles to play... Those "people" are using the wrong part of the acronym damnit!!! If they actually would use the correct part, they wouldn't be saying anything new either since TF2 is a FPS/RPG already

YAY, now I'm being silly as well XD

Thansal

<!--quoteo(post=1743712:date=Dec 13 2009, 08:23 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Dec 13 2009, 08:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1743712"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I know LF is silly :P

But "MMO" means more players, RPG forces people into roles to play... Those "people" are using the wrong part of the acronym damnit!!! If they actually would use the correct part, they wouldn't be saying anything new either since TF2 is a FPS/RPG already

YAY, now I'm being silly as well XD<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Actually, SP RPGs tend not to have:
Loot grinding
Crafting
Random Drops that determine how well you can play

MMOs (almost all of them) do.

Thus the connection.

lolfighter

I KNOW why people are calling it an MMO. I am merely saying they are stupid and wrong. And that they have bad acne.

Thansal

<!--quoteo(post=1743758:date=Dec 14 2009, 07:40 AM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolfighter @ Dec 14 2009, 07:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1743758"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I KNOW why people are calling it an MMO. I am merely saying they are stupid and wrong. And that they have bad acne.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And I was preempting the complaining by making a joke about it, so *pbbbbt*

lolfighter

At least my face doesn't look like a pizza!

X_Stickman

Guild Wars isn't an MMO.


(And Saren was right).

Kouji_San

So, since I have yet to pay TF2, 2 week not playing it. is this crafting system already part of the pool of poop added to TF2? :P

Crispy

<!--quoteo(post=1743321:date=Dec 10 2009, 05:41 PM:name=Spooge)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Spooge @ Dec 10 2009, 05:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1743321"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The Soldier and the Demoman are the two biggest spammers around. This is clearly a way to encourage them to be more surgical in their attacks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Pity this has actually worked in precisely the opposite direction, with everyone on any server that doesn't enforce class limits (which aren't on by default) spamming both classes and ruining the game with horrendous amounts of near-constant splash damage.

Honestly, I played a match on Dustbowl (24 slot) where we couldn't leave our spawn because the other team had about 8 Demoman camped outside the spawn constantly spamming the exits, and a couple had found the perfect angle to get the pipe bombs to bounce all the way to the back of the spawn, so as you spawned you either died instantly or were left with about 10% health and had to huddle with the Medics at the back of the room. Honestly I felt like Anne Frank back there. It was the sort of experienced I'd expect to be bundled with Dragonball Z custom sounds and birthday hats, but alas this was pretty much a regular vanilla TF2 server that had been violated by myopic DLC.

Great job, Valve.

Rob

<!--quoteo(post=1743811:date=Dec 14 2009, 05:05 PM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Crispy @ Dec 14 2009, 05:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1743811"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Pity this has actually worked in precisely the opposite direction, with everyone on any server that doesn't enforce class limits (which aren't on by default) spamming both classes and ruining the game with horrendous amounts of near-constant splash damage.

Honestly, I played a match on Dustbowl (24 slot) where we couldn't leave our spawn because the other team had about 8 Demoman camped outside the spawn constantly spamming the exits, and a couple had found the perfect angle to get the pipe bombs to bounce all the way to the back of the spawn, so as you spawned you either died instantly or were left with about 10% health and had to huddle with the Medics at the back of the room. Honestly I felt like Anne Frank back there. It was the sort of experienced I'd expect to be bundled with Dragonball Z custom sounds and birthday hats, but alas this was pretty much a regular vanilla TF2 server that had been violated by myopic DLC.

Great job, Valve.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


I figure your experience is the very point of the exercise. It's a war! And in a few more days it'll be over. What's so wrong with them changing things up for a week here and there?

Crispy

<!--quoteo(post=1743815:date=Dec 14 2009, 09:14 PM:name=Rob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rob @ Dec 14 2009, 09:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1743815"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I figure your experience is the very point of the exercise. It's a war! And in a few more days it'll be over. What's so wrong with them changing things up for a week here and there?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->It pisses off the more casual audience they set out to foster, because people who casually play TF2 may only play it for 30-60 mins per week, and if this hour is spent enduring that kind of experience this audience will begin to wonder if they should buy the next Valve game in the same vein.

I'm not a casual player of TF2, but I also don't get a lot of time to play it. But for me the way TF2 had been developed post-release has been very up and down, to the point that Valve multiplayer games have become less of a 'must buy' and more of a 'if I have the cash' sort of thing. Valve have the luxury of being able to fix issues with the game very speedily thanks to Steam, but sometimes I think they take too many liberties with this luxury without fully considering the effect it will have on the playerbase.

Case in point: unlockables tied to achievements - more casual players aren't happy because they are being punished with content restrictions for being less able to play the game for hours on end, other players are just annoyed that every server they join has legions of achievement ######s more interested in farming than playing. Case no. 2: randomised unlockables - a lot of useless surplus unlocks are 'found' but the one weapon you really want is randomly restricted. Now Valve has invented 'crafting' as a 3rd attempt to solve this balls-up, when I'm sure there are more elegant solutions that could have been deployed in the very first instance with some foresight into how content locked to achievements would affect the playerbase.