I can kind of get on board with the mistakes made with items. But a one week war between soldiers and demos that was meant from the beginning to shake up the community is a completely different thing. Even at that, I applaud valve for having the stones to try some of these things. It's not some uppity-my-poop-doesn't-smell crap like IW is pulling with Modern Warefare 2 ("Oh, MW is it's whole own thing, too big and awesome to be called COD5/6." "X-Box live parties and party chats give people an edge in <b>Team Deathmatch</b>, so you can't use them. But go ahead and use them in <b>Team Deathmatch + Domination in Ground War</b>, because it doesn't help you there.") Sorry for making a direct comparison, but I just don't think Valve are big aholes. In fact, I think they're doing a great job of integrating with the community.
[edit]@ Sven's video:
That's pretty gross, but think about it. This piece of hype has motivated someone to make a crappy map JUST to help soldiers kill demomen. If I were Valve, I'd be peeing my pants thinking about how awesome this move was. It's actually a war, for God's sake. People are doing things outside the game to win it! Exciting!
Playing on a normal map the war is fun. But on WAR MAPS, where one team is demo and the other is soldier, it sucks. It seems that soldier is slightly favored on those maps.
<!--quoteo(post=1743839:date=Dec 15 2009, 01:54 AM:name=Thansal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thansal @ Dec 15 2009, 01:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1743839"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->right, valve isn't going to notice a single map reporting a few hundred/thousand demo kills and no soldier kills, right?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To be honest I just found the video by accident. I didn't really mean to provide it as 'evidence' that the entire was is doomed because of a few such maps.
I wonder if the kritzkreig works with the eyelander + targe... high resistance to fire and explosives + guaranteed sword crits might be fun. Though your doctor might die.
<!--quoteo(post=1743958:date=Dec 16 2009, 12:04 AM:name=DiscoZombie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DiscoZombie @ Dec 16 2009, 12:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1743958"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I wonder if the kritzkreig works with the eyelander + targe... high resistance to fire and explosives + guaranteed sword crits might be fun. Though your doctor might die.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> And if you can run faster than a scout, a medic's not going to be able to keep up.
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
edited December 2009
So, let us see: Demo? Ditch your sticky launcher replace with a charge attack. Soldier? Make the launcher a pinpoint tool that seriously rewards high accuracy.
This is (so far) the most interesting update to me. The demo is getting a total redefine (seriously, no stickies? But a full on assault class?), and the soldier is getting a massive "you have skills, we will reward you for them" change (making him more in line with the good demos).
I'm skeptical. Melee demos will get completely raped by scouts. And I'm not convinced they won't suffer the same problems as the current close combat specialist, the pyro.
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1743997:date=Dec 16 2009, 11:05 AM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolfighter @ Dec 16 2009, 11:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1743997"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm skeptical. Melee demos will get completely raped by scouts. And I'm not convinced they won't suffer the same problems as the current close combat specialist, the pyro.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> W+1?
I think it depends on the switch time to melee, and what their launcher replacement is.
I mean, I don't suspect that I will EVER use the sword and board, but it is still interesting.
It's going to be a lot of fun playing as heavy against soldiers, it was hard enough to kill soldjas when they take strafing back and forth pot rockets from a corner. They also suffer versus demomen who make a long charge and cut their slow moving fatty head off. I also feel sorry for the pyro against a demo and all the other classes that have 125hp, the rocket did 100 damage or slightly above on a direct hit before and 25% extra damage means one hit kills.
Interesting objects but I have a hard time imagining them to simply mix things up a bit.
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
I view the demo stuff as a simple mixing up, well, not simple, as it is a total change to play style, but I don't view it as better.
The Soldier stuff is interesting as it gives GOOD soldiers a HUGE advantage, popping them up to the level of demomen (who have a much higher skill cap).
I admit, I'm not an amazing soldier, I mostly spray and pray, the only thing I am good at is mobility. I likely will not be using the new rocket launcher.
I don't think so. An engineer can easily outheal the damage the regular rocket launcher does. A soldier's best bet against a sentry is to catch the engineer with splash damage, which is going to be a lot harder with the new rocket launcher. The 25% extra damage will still be offset by the high rate at which an engy can heal his sentry, methinks.
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
Probably no harder than sentry rockets are. And the main reason *they're* hard to knock back is because of the bullets throwing you around at the same time.
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
So, 3 updates up: 1) Either they typoed one of the Demo's unlocks, or he isn't getting a grenade launcher change, just 2 sticky launcher changes. 2) Soldier's Equalizer (lower hp == more badass). Meh. I mean, it's a nice idea, but I still don't use melee that much. 3) Giving up your shotgun for a kritzkrieg like ability? Kinda tempting actually.
also, the demo achievements seem fairly hard, where as the soldier ones seem fairly simple. I count about 25 soldier achievements I can get with out working at it (and with out having the unlocks), and around 18 for the Demo.
I don't think it's a typo thansal :P secondary fire defaults to sticky detonate with any weapon selected, whereas the targe has a secondary of charge; also could you imagine the hell of a charge-sticky jump ;p
this update actually made me play a bit of tf2 :o might have to give it a bit of a whirl
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
edited December 2009
<!--quoteo(post=1744104:date=Dec 17 2009, 09:35 AM:name=ZiGGY)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ZiGGY @ Dec 17 2009, 09:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1744104"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't think it's a typo thansal :P secondary fire defaults to sticky detonate with any weapon selected, whereas the targe has a secondary of charge; also could you imagine the hell of a charge-sticky jump ;p
this update actually made me play a bit of tf2 :o might have to give it a bit of a whirl<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm with you, I have actually been playing a bit recently (god my skills are gone).
I am still not sure exactly how the Targe will work. Do they mean equip as in put it in your load out or switch to it? Can you charge when using only melee? or can you charge when using the grenade launcher as well?
Also, I'm interested in how the new sticky launcher will work. 16 stickies at once lets you cover 3-4 spots at one time with almost assured death to any one caught in the blast. But how does 'looking at' work? Do you have to see the sticky group? Is a group what you can see? what is in the middle of your screen? or is it just one group of 8 vs the other group of 8?
The addition of the ability to destroy enemy stickies counters my one fear of the thing (that of the MASSIVE amounts of sticky spam I expect to see). Really, how many people that play demo are good enough to air burst and such? Having 16 stickies that deal the same damage/blast radius just turns the demo into the spam king (where as the Direct Hit turns the previous spam king into a sniper)
Also, guesses on the special unlock? My guess is something that is just cosmetic and related to the war.
Comments
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/rx2MutERBC8"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/rx2MutERBC8" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center><div align='center'><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rx2MutERBC8" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rx2MutERBC8</a></div>
You all had too little faith in the internet. Looking at the current stats in the war, a few of these might make a difference.
[edit]@ Sven's video:
That's pretty gross, but think about it. This piece of hype has motivated someone to make a crappy map JUST to help soldiers kill demomen. If I were Valve, I'd be peeing my pants thinking about how awesome this move was. It's actually a war, for God's sake. People are doing things outside the game to win it! Exciting!
To be honest I just found the video by accident. I didn't really mean to provide it as 'evidence' that the entire was is doomed because of a few such maps.
<a href="http://www.teamfortress.com/demomanupdate/index.htm#item_1" target="_blank">http://www.teamfortress.com/demomanupdate/index.htm#item_1</a>
<img src="http://www.teamfortress.com/demomanupdate/images/b_01.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I quote a random post board:
"Welcome to World of Team Fortress
Also known as WTF"
Also I can't wait to leap as a demoman.
And if you can run faster than a scout, a medic's not going to be able to keep up.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Vm1cwf3nDw&NR=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Vm1cwf3nDw&NR=1</a>
<img src="http://www.teamfortress.com/soldierupdate/images/b_01.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<a href="http://www.teamfortress.com/soldierupdate/index.htm#item_1" target="_blank">http://www.teamfortress.com/soldierupdate/index.htm#item_1</a>
Cool merchandise: <img src="http://store.valvesoftware.com/tf2/img/warbonds/warbonds_11.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> (also in red)
Demo? Ditch your sticky launcher replace with a charge attack.
Soldier? Make the launcher a pinpoint tool that seriously rewards high accuracy.
This is (so far) the most interesting update to me. The demo is getting a total redefine (seriously, no stickies? But a full on assault class?), and the soldier is getting a massive "you have skills, we will reward you for them" change (making him more in line with the good demos).
I actually am looking forward to this.
W+1?
I think it depends on the switch time to melee, and what their launcher replacement is.
I mean, I don't suspect that I will EVER use the sword and board, but it is still interesting.
Interesting objects but I have a hard time imagining them to simply mix things up a bit.
The Soldier stuff is interesting as it gives GOOD soldiers a HUGE advantage, popping them up to the level of demomen (who have a much higher skill cap).
I admit, I'm not an amazing soldier, I mostly spray and pray, the only thing I am good at is mobility. I likely will not be using the new rocket launcher.
The new soldier rockets will be kinda tricky to air blast too :3
1) Either they typoed one of the Demo's unlocks, or he isn't getting a grenade launcher change, just 2 sticky launcher changes.
2) Soldier's Equalizer (lower hp == more badass). Meh. I mean, it's a nice idea, but I still don't use melee that much.
3) Giving up your shotgun for a kritzkrieg like ability? Kinda tempting actually.
also, the demo achievements seem fairly hard, where as the soldier ones seem fairly simple.
I count about 25 soldier achievements I can get with out working at it (and with out having the unlocks), and around 18 for the Demo.
this update actually made me play a bit of tf2 :o might have to give it a bit of a whirl
this update actually made me play a bit of tf2 :o might have to give it a bit of a whirl<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm with you, I have actually been playing a bit recently (god my skills are gone).
I am still not sure exactly how the Targe will work. Do they mean equip as in put it in your load out or switch to it? Can you charge when using only melee? or can you charge when using the grenade launcher as well?
Also, I'm interested in how the new sticky launcher will work. 16 stickies at once lets you cover 3-4 spots at one time with almost assured death to any one caught in the blast. But how does 'looking at' work? Do you have to see the sticky group? Is a group what you can see? what is in the middle of your screen? or is it just one group of 8 vs the other group of 8?
The addition of the ability to destroy enemy stickies counters my one fear of the thing (that of the MASSIVE amounts of sticky spam I expect to see). Really, how many people that play demo are good enough to air burst and such? Having 16 stickies that deal the same damage/blast radius just turns the demo into the spam king (where as the Direct Hit turns the previous spam king into a sniper)
Also, guesses on the special unlock?
My guess is something that is just cosmetic and related to the war.
<a href="http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=3259" target="_blank">http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=3259</a>
Now we just need to see what that last hour did to the stats.
edit: too bad about the propaganda boost the soldier got, Demoman would have won pretty handily without that