Not really, if you get rocket on your feet and fly a bit in the air you still charge forward and get the crit at the end. Provided the duration does not run out while airborne.
Think I'll be dong the Achievements to get my loot, only unlocked a seventh Backburner yesterday waiting for my random Christmas present scroogey Valve doesn't wanna give me.
The barrage rocket launcher looks ridiculously overpowered for anyone that can aim. Sniper? One Hit Kill. Scout? OHK. Engy? OHK. Medic? 1 direct hit + 1 Shotgun hit. Heavy? 2 direct hits + 1 Shotgun hit. Can't wait.
The new rocket launcher isn't as amazing as it initially sounds. Despite the increased travel speed, hitting a moving target at range isn't exactly easy. Furthermore, it still suffers from damage falloff, so it's only a one hit kill at short ranges or against airborne targets. It's a solid weapon, but not overpowered.
It also does minicrits on anyone jumping, it minimalizes self splash because of the short splash, it does crazy rocket jumps even with 70% less splash (no idea how this works, damage goes over splash for knockback?), it hits a sentry faster so a slightly unaware engy can't always repair it in time compared to regular rockets. Again, the smaller splash holds more condensed damage so a hit is more solid than the regular. In tight areas the DH grants instant kills on all 125hp classes if they run in to each other face to face, a single more rocket can be the difference between surviving or not. The DH allows you to basically countersnipe snipers and heavies are reduced to a slight annoyance unless you face them spun up in close combat. Reflecting a rocket is thrice as hard as pyro, and almost impossible in close combat which makes airburst a lot less useful. AGAIN, less splash means it probably wont hit anyone when reflected.
That ###### is overpowered.
And I have yet mentioned the pickaxe but as Lolf said before, there is no reasonable tradeoff to not use it. Any situation you can think of it does better than the shovel. For crying out loud, it can even crit WITH the low hp bonus damage. This is around somewhere of 500 damage in a single hit. It also increases the chance of hitting if you decide as soldier to get hit first because suddenly you can move faster and deal more damage.
see the fun thing on public is I managed to dodge about 20 dh shots in a row at midrange as a heavy shooting his chaingun, but ya know that 2hour travel time between me and him makes it imba ;p
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
The Direct Hit makes certain places extremely annoying. It especially makes attack/defend/payload maps annoying for the attacking team.
Dustbowl, for example. The left exit from the blu's spawn on the first round (the one that goes up the stairs). That one is *always* subject to spam from soldiers and demomen, but the direct hit makes it extremely annoying.
Plus that 65% explosive resistance on the Chargin' Targe makes the demomen on defence a pain in the ass to shift (if they're using it, I only use it on attack) since they can shrug off more damage when you try to charge out.
<!--quoteo(post=1744626:date=Dec 22 2009, 06:18 PM:name=X_Stickman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (X_Stickman @ Dec 22 2009, 06:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1744626"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Plus that 65% explosive resistance on the Chargin' Targe makes the demomen on defence a pain in the ass to shift (if they're using it, I only use it on attack) since they can shrug off more damage when you try to charge out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Use bullets?
The only thing that's over powered as far as I'm concerned is the bugle. Although it's countered by an uber, but yeah, that and an uber is pretty overpowered. Apart from that the other weapons don't really change much as far as I'm concerned, playing 6v6 play.
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
Haven't been having too much trouble against sword and board demos as a scout with Force 'a Nature; the knockback keeps them at medium range even with a full rage meter, and it's easy to sidestep the charge... at which point just pull the pistol and start plinking. No stickybombs to worry about. Resistance is fun just for putting down separate groups of stickies behind the frame of different entry doors; people who can't see them will assume you just have the normal launcher.
Direct Hit is a pain regardless of class, but particularly with how much time the Scout spends airborne. Even getting clipped will turn you into paste... lends an incredibly cheap feel comparatively, and the speeded-up rocket makes changing jump direction far less effective as far as avoidance.
That and of course Engineers are screwed... Soldier, Demoman, and Spy all getting their updates first. I can only hope for some kind of auto-repair dispenser (countered by spy of course) to keep sentries going while you're off grabbing more metal, a sniper turret (low fire rate, line-of-sight range), some kind of regenerative energy shield instead of the shotty, mannable placed turret swapping out for the auto-sentry, or a babbler grenade given the advances Valve has made on their TF2 bots.
As a medic, I hate the pickax. Following a soldier around, healing him, he's killing stuff, I'm getting assists and charging my uber... then he decides to whip out his pickax and suddenly I have nothing to do. You might argue that a smart soldier wouldn't take out his pickax if he had a personal healer. well, there aren't many smart soldiers out there, and even the smart ones are generally out for their own glory and will take out their pick and charge someone given the chance. so if you want a downside to the pick, there's that, and it can be a pretty big one. I definitely don't prioritize soldiers as my heal targets anymore.
The only non-direct firing weapons in the game is the demoman's grenade launcher. A heavy just gets exploded to pieces by the 60 demomen waiting around the corner/through the doorway. If the heavy's uber'd, the demos just run off and lay stickies. If the heavy ignores the stickies and runs on, the demos just blow them and lay more stickies further on. If the heavy stops to shoot the stickies, the demomen lay more and wait for the uber to run out.
I'm not saying the shield makes the demos invulnerable, I'm just saying it makes them a pain in the ass to shift from any location. And the shield's charge (along with explosion and flame resistance) makes it relatively easy to capture some points. It's like a demo jump only you don't end up pinned in a corner of the skybox by turret knockback.
I do think the shield and sword are gonna be nerfed fairly soon.
sigh I'd really hoped that this thread wouldn't turn as stupid as they do on the TF2 forums. I don't blame you idiot forum spammers, I'm just disappointed. :/
also yeah in some areas the new unlocks are really sick
Oh I am PROFUSELY SORRY that we do not measure up to your high intellectual standards, Magister ZiGgY of Smartenshire. Pray tell which element of our discourse has met with your exacting disapproval?
Oh and you missed a bit of punctuation and some capital letters. You may wish to correct these errors by means of the handy "edit" button below your post.
<!--quoteo(post=1744676:date=Dec 22 2009, 11:44 PM:name=X_Stickman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (X_Stickman @ Dec 22 2009, 11:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1744676"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not saying the shield makes the demos invulnerable, I'm just saying it makes them a pain in the ass to shift from any location. And the shield's charge (along with explosion and flame resistance) makes it relatively easy to capture some points. It's like a demo jump only you don't end up pinned in a corner of the skybox by turret knockback.
I do think the shield and sword are gonna be nerfed fairly soon.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's very easy to shotgun a demo down as scout, soldier or engineer. This sounds like a skill gap complaint.
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1744734:date=Dec 23 2009, 04:05 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Dec 23 2009, 04:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1744734"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's very easy to shotgun a demo down as scout, soldier or engineer. This sounds like a skill gap complaint.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because a scout, soldier or engineer can easily run out of a hallway that has 6 demomen shooting into it. Please re-read my post. It was a very specific complaint, not "demomen are overpowered in every situation."
One person v 6 of any class in a hallway is going to be "over powered" as you put it, I'd put it as blind gaming stupidity unless you're good and they're bad.
Also, it was a counter to the shield not demo men shooting pipes/stickybombs. Of which yeah, that weapon really isn't all that great at all. Spammy pubs it will catch out bad players and those reloading/low on health, competitively it has been proven worse than the British government.
<!--quoteo(post=1744737:date=Dec 23 2009, 05:28 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Dec 23 2009, 05:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1744737"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->it has been proven worse than the British government.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> (Hate to diminish your <b><u>EPIC BURN</u></b> but the Conservatives aren't in power yet.)
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1744737:date=Dec 23 2009, 04:28 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Dec 23 2009, 04:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1744737"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->One person v 6 of any class in a hallway is going to be "over powered" as you put it, I'd put it as blind gaming stupidity unless you're good and they're bad.
Also, it was a counter to the shield not demo men shooting pipes/stickybombs. Of which yeah, that weapon really isn't all that great at all. Spammy pubs it will catch out bad players and those reloading/low on health, competitively it has been proven worse than the British government.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My point was that on maps like dustbowl it's hard to get out of the first spawn due to the sheer amount of explosives being thrown into it from every angle, making it extremely hard to get up and get a direct shot at them. Thus you're forced to use the only indirect fire weapon in the game to get at them. Which is the demo's grenade launcher. Which doesn't do as much damage any more, due to the shield.
And yes I am talking about 24-30 player pubs, because I cba going into those "pro" 6 on 6 games to throw my e-penis at people I don't know.
Actually you're talking about 30 player pubs since that is what the server you usually play on is. I tend to play on a 24 player server and while getting out of that first spawn usually takes the first 30 seconds, you do get out of there.
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
I must play on some of these crazy Euro servers you people do.
I have seen spawn camping once, and that was because we were fairly easily curbstomping the other team in the first place. However even there we were backed up fairly quickly due to needing to reload/out of ammo/whatever (we didn't die, but we would have had we stayed). I can't mention the server size, but I assume it was 24 or 30.
I mean, to be spawn camped you have to be pushed back into your spawn, which requires there to be no ubers at round start (or built up inside spawn), which requires a fail team filled with failure. Either that or the other team is simply god awful amazing, managing to juggle/stun ubers so they can't do anything, etc etc.
I can understand the fact that it is unpleasant to have pipes/rockets being poured into your spawn, but there are so many counters to it, that I don't really get the complaint. simple counter: 2 ubers, one on an assault class (soldier, demo, pyro, whatever), and one on a heavy. any one that stand outside of your spawn will get rocked in the face by an uber heavy, and any one that runs away will be chased by an uber team (and hopefully the rest of the team).
Comments
Of(f?) to play some more, I love how things mix up with charging demos.
The barrage rocket launcher looks ridiculously overpowered for anyone that can aim. Sniper? One Hit Kill. Scout? OHK. Engy? OHK. Medic? 1 direct hit + 1 Shotgun hit. Heavy? 2 direct hits + 1 Shotgun hit. Can't wait.
P.S. Off.
That ###### is overpowered.
And I have yet mentioned the pickaxe but as Lolf said before, there is no reasonable tradeoff to not use it. Any situation you can think of it does better than the shovel. For crying out loud, it can even crit WITH the low hp bonus damage. This is around somewhere of 500 damage in a single hit. It also increases the chance of hitting if you decide as soldier to get hit first because suddenly you can move faster and deal more damage.
Demo update at least have hard counters.
Dustbowl, for example. The left exit from the blu's spawn on the first round (the one that goes up the stairs). That one is *always* subject to spam from soldiers and demomen, but the direct hit makes it extremely annoying.
Plus that 65% explosive resistance on the Chargin' Targe makes the demomen on defence a pain in the ass to shift (if they're using it, I only use it on attack) since they can shrug off more damage when you try to charge out.
<div align='center'><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2pL44uOKWk" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2pL44uOKWk</a></div>
Use bullets?
Direct Hit is a pain regardless of class, but particularly with how much time the Scout spends airborne. Even getting clipped will turn you into paste... lends an incredibly cheap feel comparatively, and the speeded-up rocket makes changing jump direction far less effective as far as avoidance.
That and of course Engineers are screwed... Soldier, Demoman, and Spy all getting their updates first. I can only hope for some kind of auto-repair dispenser (countered by spy of course) to keep sentries going while you're off grabbing more metal, a sniper turret (low fire rate, line-of-sight range), some kind of regenerative energy shield instead of the shotty, mannable placed turret swapping out for the auto-sentry, or a babbler grenade given the advances Valve has made on their TF2 bots.
can't say I really like the launcher... I prefer the old one :O
The only non-direct firing weapons in the game is the demoman's grenade launcher. A heavy just gets exploded to pieces by the 60 demomen waiting around the corner/through the doorway. If the heavy's uber'd, the demos just run off and lay stickies. If the heavy ignores the stickies and runs on, the demos just blow them and lay more stickies further on. If the heavy stops to shoot the stickies, the demomen lay more and wait for the uber to run out.
I'm not saying the shield makes the demos invulnerable, I'm just saying it makes them a pain in the ass to shift from any location. And the shield's charge (along with explosion and flame resistance) makes it relatively easy to capture some points. It's like a demo jump only you don't end up pinned in a corner of the skybox by turret knockback.
I do think the shield and sword are gonna be nerfed fairly soon.
also yeah in some areas the new unlocks are really sick
Oh and you missed a bit of punctuation and some capital letters. You may wish to correct these errors by means of the handy "edit" button below your post.
Just FYI.
I do think the shield and sword are gonna be nerfed fairly soon.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's very easy to shotgun a demo down as scout, soldier or engineer. This sounds like a skill gap complaint.
Because a scout, soldier or engineer can easily run out of a hallway that has 6 demomen shooting into it. Please re-read my post. It was a very specific complaint, not "demomen are overpowered in every situation."
Also, it was a counter to the shield not demo men shooting pipes/stickybombs. Of which yeah, that weapon really isn't all that great at all. Spammy pubs it will catch out bad players and those reloading/low on health, competitively it has been proven worse than the British government.
(Hate to diminish your <b><u>EPIC BURN</u></b> but the Conservatives aren't in power yet.)
Also, it was a counter to the shield not demo men shooting pipes/stickybombs. Of which yeah, that weapon really isn't all that great at all. Spammy pubs it will catch out bad players and those reloading/low on health, competitively it has been proven worse than the British government.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My point was that on maps like dustbowl it's hard to get out of the first spawn due to the sheer amount of explosives being thrown into it from every angle, making it extremely hard to get up and get a direct shot at them. Thus you're forced to use the only indirect fire weapon in the game to get at them. Which is the demo's grenade launcher. Which doesn't do as much damage any more, due to the shield.
And yes I am talking about 24-30 player pubs, because I cba going into those "pro" 6 on 6 games to throw my e-penis at people I don't know.
I have seen spawn camping once, and that was because we were fairly easily curbstomping the other team in the first place. However even there we were backed up fairly quickly due to needing to reload/out of ammo/whatever (we didn't die, but we would have had we stayed). I can't mention the server size, but I assume it was 24 or 30.
I mean, to be spawn camped you have to be pushed back into your spawn, which requires there to be no ubers at round start (or built up inside spawn), which requires a fail team filled with failure. Either that or the other team is simply god awful amazing, managing to juggle/stun ubers so they can't do anything, etc etc.
I can understand the fact that it is unpleasant to have pipes/rockets being poured into your spawn, but there are so many counters to it, that I don't really get the complaint.
simple counter:
2 ubers, one on an assault class (soldier, demo, pyro, whatever), and one on a heavy. any one that stand outside of your spawn will get rocked in the face by an uber heavy, and any one that runs away will be chased by an uber team (and hopefully the rest of the team).