Keep in mind that resource income is way way too high right now, combined with the fact that there just isn't much for players to spend res on. Next patch revises res income downwards, so people won't/shouldn't be able to buy a shotty every single time they spawn after they've been researched.
<!--quoteo(post=1848810:date=May 27 2011, 08:56 PM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ May 27 2011, 08:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1848810"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->that is because of the armory vs commander problem, once again.
In ns1, commander drops weapons but now in ns2, everyone does not depend on the commander to get weapons, they can easily buy their own weapons. its pretty big game breaking problem, marines are far too independent.
is the shotgun damage spread been reduced as well? I really don't like knowing I can shotgun someone almost across the room.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Nooooo... I think the problem is that there isn't any HMG in the game yet.
In NS1 everyone gets shotguns, and then everyone gets HMGs. Currently there isn't anything better than a shotgun, flamers are somewhat better but for direct damage per second against everything, the shotgun is the best gun, which is why everyone uses it.
When on earth did NS1 have a situation where 'commanders drop weapons' didn't amount to 'commanders create a huge heap of guns at spawn and everyone gets one once they respawn'.
<!--quoteo(post=1848807:date=May 27 2011, 03:32 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ May 27 2011, 03:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1848807"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The shotgun is meant to blow skulks apart, not Onos or Crags.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/2010/6/damage_types_in_ns2" target="_blank">You're incorrect</a>, sir.
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Here are some of the goals for damage types in NS2: <ul><li>Technology shouldn't obsolete other technology. Ie, skulks will be seen throughout the game and not just because they're cheap!</li><li>There shouldn't be overlap between weapons or abilities. We are a small team so we can't afford to do this anyways.</li><li>A basic marine with a rifle, and a vanilla skulk should always feel effective. This is to make sure new players joining a game in progress have fun.</li><li>Single-minded strategies should be counterable. Ie, a room full of hydras should be assailable.</li><li>An Onos shouldn't be ripped apart (or even really bothered) by sentries, nor should he be demeaned by spending a lot of time taking out structures. It does not befit his position in the food chain.</li><li>The more armor that appears in the art, the more armor the unit has (marine structures have some, the Onos has tons, marines have a little, etc.).</li></ul> There are more, but these are the basics. With these in mind, here are the basic damage types that are currently in NS2 (in development, not final): <ul><li>Normal - Regular damage (Rifle, Bite)</li><li>Light - Half vs. armor (Sentries, Hydras)</li><li>Heavy (was Puncture) - Extra damage vs. armor (Fade swipe, Pistol, Shotgun)</li><li>Puncture (was Piercing) - Extra vs. players (Minigun, Lerk spikes)</li><li>Structural - Double against structures (Onos gore, SwitchAxe, Rifle grenades)</li><li>Gas - Breathing targets only (Spores, Rifle nerve gas grenades)</li><li>Biological - Living/organic targets only (Parasite, Flamethrower)</li><li>StructuresOnly - Doesn't damage players or AI units (MASC, Whip Bombard)</li></ul> Here are some beneficial effects of these simple types: <ul><li>Basic marines and skulks are versatile.</li><li><!--coloro:#FFFF00--><span style="color:#FFFF00"><!--/coloro--><b>Shotguns won't absolutely waste skulks but are especially good at more advanced lifeforms and armored structures (Crags).</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></li><li>Lerks aren't especially effective at taking out structures from a distance (something that was a problem in old versions of NS1).</li><li>Marines can take down alien structures relatively quickly when they aren't defended (ie, when they have taken down defenders and pull out their axes).</li><li>When heavy marines are gassed by lerks, they aren't affected.</li></ul><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If any of this has changed, please direct me to where that has been stated.
<!--quoteo(post=1848817:date=May 27 2011, 09:19 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ May 27 2011, 09:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1848817"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Nooooo... I think the problem is that there isn't any HMG in the game yet.
In NS1 everyone gets shotguns, and then everyone gets HMGs. Currently there isn't anything better than a shotgun, flamers are somewhat better but for direct damage per second against everything, the shotgun is the best gun, which is why everyone uses it.
When on earth did NS1 have a situation where 'commanders drop weapons' didn't amount to 'commanders create a huge heap of guns at spawn and everyone gets one once they respawn'.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
so with this logic, when HMG gets in-game, nobody will buy shotguns anymore because they all will be buying hmg?
flamers aren't somewhat better, aliens have zero counter to this currently. Lets not forget flames still go through walls, which hasn't been fixed yet.
here are some ideas what can be done with the armory
1. allow lower tech to be bought from the armory but higher tech can only be dropped by the commander 2. the commander must use his own res to keep resupplying the armory for marines. So the commander controls what can be sold, how many of it and he's in charge of resupplying the armory. Aside from being able to drop weapons to marines, the commander has full control over the armory
even though personal res may have been adjusted it still doesn't solve the huge dependance marines have on the armory rather then the actual commander. The soul of the marines is the commander, he must supply his marines with weapons - as he has done in ns1. marines should not be so independent, I can't stress this enough.
If any of this has changed, please direct me to where that has been stated.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hmm. They certainly haven't changed anything relevant about the shotguns stats to give it that new role.
<!--quoteo(post=1848831:date=May 27 2011, 06:29 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ May 27 2011, 06:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1848831"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hmm. They certainly haven't changed anything relevant about the shotguns stats to give it that new role.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hence my frustrations :)
I'm partial to the idea of letting the players get their own weapons out of the armory - but only the comm can drop Exo and JP. Sounds like a good compromise to me.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
considering the fact that in charlie's new design log flamethrowers will get a more anti-structure focus, why dont we just go that route and allow the shotgun to be anti personnel along with the other projectile weapons, rifle, hmg sentry etc?
it would REALLY take out that annoying situation of flamers destroying the entire team along with the hate for getting flamed helplessly and instantly?
<!--quoteo(post=1848822:date=May 27 2011, 10:45 PM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ May 27 2011, 10:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1848822"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->so with this logic, when HMG gets in-game, nobody will buy shotguns anymore because they all will be buying hmg?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well it depends, see as I understand it, HMG is replaced with the minigun, which only the exosuit can use, so that forces a choice between exosuit and minigun, or jetpack and shotgun.
Of course it's also likely that the shotgun will get a significant nerf against structures so you'll see more GLs thrown into the mix, so you'll likely get at the very least, exosuit marines with minigun, jetpackers with shotguns, and jetpackers with grenade launchers. For those of us who can't aim worth a damn, the flamethrower is also a good option.
<!--quoteo(post=1848822:date=May 27 2011, 10:45 PM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ May 27 2011, 10:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1848822"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->flamers aren't somewhat better, aliens have zero counter to this currently. Lets not forget flames still go through walls, which hasn't been fixed yet.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
However they have pitifully bad DPS, which means a marine going against a fade, or even two or three marines against a couple of fades with flamers are probably going to die horribly. Flamers are good because they are easy to use and they light enemies up quite nicely, but you need shotguns to do the actual damage.
<!--quoteo(post=1848822:date=May 27 2011, 10:45 PM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ May 27 2011, 10:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1848822"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->here are some ideas what can be done with the armory
1. allow lower tech to be bought from the armory but higher tech can only be dropped by the commander 2. the commander must use his own res to keep resupplying the armory for marines. So the commander controls what can be sold, how many of it and he's in charge of resupplying the armory. Aside from being able to drop weapons to marines, the commander has full control over the armory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why?
<!--quoteo(post=1848822:date=May 27 2011, 10:45 PM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ May 27 2011, 10:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1848822"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->even though personal res may have been adjusted it still doesn't solve the huge dependance marines have on the armory rather then the actual commander. The soul of the marines is the commander, he must supply his marines with weapons - as he has done in ns1. marines should not be so independent, I can't stress this enough.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You keep saying that but you don't really give any compelling arguments as to why it has to be that way. The commander is one player, on a team of many players, most of the time most players will have nothing to do with the commander, this is by neccesity because the commander can only be in one place, while the team can be in many places. If the marine team has any 'soul' as you put it it's other marines and the interactions of the different roles, and there are going to be plenty of different roles for people to play, even more so now that the game affords players the option of picking exactly what they want to do, rather than forcing everyone to do the same thing because the commander can't sort between half a dozen different weapon/jetpack/armor piles at spawn.
i like being able to choose my own gear. i was really excited for this feature when i first read about ns2 having it. it brings the game up to date and it was really annoying relying on a commander to give you stuff. also, perhaps you don't want a shotgun. you feel obligated to use one because the commander has spent resources on it. i always felt shoehorned into a role. i don't think ns2 is about taking orders and doing everything you are told. i think it is about mutual teamwork. players pick their roles in which they are the strongest. they then lend themselves to the team and assist the commander while the commander assists them. otherwise this game is just another rts except the units sometimes win or lose the fights.
<!--quoteo(post=1849018:date=May 29 2011, 03:17 AM:name=weeschwee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (weeschwee @ May 29 2011, 03:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1849018"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i like being able to choose my own gear.
i always felt shoehorned into a role.
players pick their roles in which they are the strongest. they then lend themselves to the team and assist the commander while the commander assists them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Being able to choose your own role (really giving tactical autonomy in general to the ground units) gives players more areas to excel in, feel more useful in, and enjoy the game through. That's where the Armory shines.
On the other hand, letting Marines run about without any restrictions or direction prevents them from making the best use of those skills, at the right times, because they don't know what's going on around them. That's where the Commander shines.
The best parts of the Marine game were when you succeeded through cooperation, but the worst were when you failed because success was almost entirely dependent on cooperation amongst Marines. This was due to a very restricting relationship between commander and soldier; there was as much if not more negative reinforcement for not cooperating as there was positive reinforcement for cooperating.
So a balance needs to be struck, to allow cooperating players to excel, but not gimp players who aren't perfect at it when they're 'fresh out of the IP'.
I think allowing players to pick their own weapons (which provides different skillsets for players to practice/master), but requiring the commander to hand out Jetpacks and Exosuits (which allows the commander to choose which units to empower at any given moment by dropping either one) is an excellent way to keep that balance.
The commander can still tell the team what to get and where the enemy is and what would be best to use against them, and the marines can still work together, assuming working together is actually useful, you don't really have much reason not to do it.
If working together isn't useful, and going alone is preferable, then I don't think arbitrarily forcing cooperating on people is a good idea, because it's clearly not a strong tactic.
Interesting to hear the Transponder hasn't been scrapped yet, considering they seem to serve a redundant function (albeit with different implementation) of Phase Gates. Any words on that?
<!--quoteo(post=1849132:date=May 30 2011, 12:49 AM:name=KuBaN)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KuBaN @ May 30 2011, 12:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1849132"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think allowing players to pick their own weapons (which provides different skillsets for players to practice/master), but requiring the commander to hand out Jetpacks and Exosuits (which allows the commander to choose which units to empower at any given moment by dropping either one) is an excellent way to keep that balance.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This concept has come up a couple times and I think it is a good one.
So to continue with the autonomy concept. You REQUISITION a jetpack or exosuit at the armory. The commander GRANTS the REQUISITION or ignores it.
To give you an idea ...it could be another row in the armory interface.
This would enable you the player to specify what you wanted but the commander has to decide if you are WORTH the bones :-) Making it a game mechanism does not require the commander to remember every request made (I want a exo, I want a jetpack, I want Dora's backpack, I want a pony) But to review a list of price tags and names and decide who gets the goods.
Hopefully it shoudl come out sometime today or tomorrow, I remember something about them releasing patches every other Friday so we might see it late today.
Also, any chance of seeing the Mineshaft map anytime soon?
I would love to play that map, you said it was much bigger than the current ones so :)
<!--quoteo(post=1849685:date=Jun 2 2011, 10:26 PM:name=kingmob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kingmob @ Jun 2 2011, 10:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1849685"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So to continue with the autonomy concept. You REQUISITION a jetpack or exosuit at the armory. The commander GRANTS the REQUISITION or ignores it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1849839:date=Jun 3 2011, 11:04 PM:name=memnoch666devil)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (memnoch666devil @ Jun 3 2011, 11:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1849839"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Think of the button spammers that just request. Also what if all people did was request. Then you wouldn't know really who to choose from<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That may get annoying if they implemented a sound or something to go along with a request. Hmm, there could be a limit on requests. Once per life or something. From the commanders perspective he could view their name and pts and reward the right players. The game so far is relatively small enough that the commander should know his 8-10 man squad decently well by the time requests (For JP's and Exo's) come around.
I like this idea all around really, it gives the commander something different to do since he cant drop weapons anymore. I also think that Jetpacks and Exosuits are too complicated for any normal marine to just pick up from the armory. They need to be rewarded :)
/\ I belive this is Turkish and I got news for ya most of us here dosnt understand it. I atleast got merhaba wich I belive means hello/welcome and merhaba back at ya :D Anyway lets continue the "the progress page is sooooo long ...." game, have fun with it while waiting for the patch to hit steam.
If I'm honest, it's been 2 years. If this mega patch isn't progress to being a functionally not massively buggy game like we've got now, I'm asking for a refund. Fall 2009 was a long time ago, like my pre-order money. I've seen no real return yet, which I'm sad about, because I'd like a return, like a full game.
<!--quoteo(post=1849969:date=Jun 4 2011, 10:27 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Jun 4 2011, 10:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1849969"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If I'm honest, it's been 2 years. If this mega patch isn't progress to being a functionally not massively buggy game like we've got now, I'm asking for a refund. Fall 2009 was a long time ago, like my pre-order money. I've seen no real return yet, which I'm sad about, because I'd like a return, like a full game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
With all the critique and opinions, you STILL havn't asked for a refund?
The game is very much playable. When you have 16 players in a game with no lag and decent performance of 60fps+, THAT's playable. Has been for some time. This patch will make you see the true potential of the game. If you don't like it, get a refund so the rest of us can enjoy the game without the belittling of the developers who are working their arses off even at weekends and through the night just to make this game better.
/\wot he said, I belive we are right on track considering how far the beta has come, games usually take this long to make with big dev teams and a 3rd party engine so I think they have done a fantastic job, I do however think that they should hit a release date in October with a fully functioning game and a really nice tweaked engine to run good on slow PCs.
yeah hoping for Oct or fall,but on the other hand fall is full of big AAA title releases so if they do make it untill then I hope sales would be good enough for them to keep their doors open.
<!--quoteo(post=1849969:date=Jun 5 2011, 05:27 AM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Jun 5 2011, 05:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1849969"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If I'm honest, it's been 2 years. If this mega patch isn't progress to being a functionally not massively buggy game like we've got now, I'm asking for a refund. Fall 2009 was a long time ago, like my pre-order money. I've seen no real return yet, which I'm sad about, because I'd like a return, like a full game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then get your goddamn refund and stop crying on the forum already - it got tiresome ages ago.
<!--quoteo(post=1849987:date=Jun 5 2011, 09:16 AM:name=Obraxis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Obraxis @ Jun 5 2011, 09:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1849987"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The game is very much playable. When you have 16 players in a game with no lag and decent performance of 60fps+, THAT's playable. Has been for some time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> What? I must have been playing a different game on different servers, because no server sustains a decent tickrate with such player-numbers, and my client can by far not hold a 60+ FPS with so much action going on. If you mean this'll be the case with the new patch, I'll eagerly await it.
Comments
In ns1, commander drops weapons but now in ns2, everyone does not depend on the commander to get weapons, they can easily buy their own weapons. its pretty big game breaking problem, marines are far too independent.
is the shotgun damage spread been reduced as well? I really don't like knowing I can shotgun someone almost across the room.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nooooo... I think the problem is that there isn't any HMG in the game yet.
In NS1 everyone gets shotguns, and then everyone gets HMGs. Currently there isn't anything better than a shotgun, flamers are somewhat better but for direct damage per second against everything, the shotgun is the best gun, which is why everyone uses it.
When on earth did NS1 have a situation where 'commanders drop weapons' didn't amount to 'commanders create a huge heap of guns at spawn and everyone gets one once they respawn'.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/2010/6/damage_types_in_ns2" target="_blank">You're incorrect</a>, sir.
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Here are some of the goals for damage types in NS2:
<ul><li>Technology shouldn't obsolete other technology. Ie, skulks will be seen throughout the game and not just because they're cheap!</li><li>There shouldn't be overlap between weapons or abilities. We are a small team so we can't afford to do this anyways.</li><li>A basic marine with a rifle, and a vanilla skulk should always feel effective. This is to make sure new players joining a game in progress have fun.</li><li>Single-minded strategies should be counterable. Ie, a room full of hydras should be assailable.</li><li>An Onos shouldn't be ripped apart (or even really bothered) by sentries, nor should he be demeaned by spending a lot of time taking out structures. It does not befit his position in the food chain.</li><li>The more armor that appears in the art, the more armor the unit has (marine structures have some, the Onos has tons, marines have a little, etc.).</li></ul>
There are more, but these are the basics. With these in mind, here are the basic damage types that are currently in NS2 (in development, not final):
<ul><li>Normal - Regular damage (Rifle, Bite)</li><li>Light - Half vs. armor (Sentries, Hydras)</li><li>Heavy (was Puncture) - Extra damage vs. armor (Fade swipe, Pistol, Shotgun)</li><li>Puncture (was Piercing) - Extra vs. players (Minigun, Lerk spikes)</li><li>Structural - Double against structures (Onos gore, SwitchAxe, Rifle grenades)</li><li>Gas - Breathing targets only (Spores, Rifle nerve gas grenades)</li><li>Biological - Living/organic targets only (Parasite, Flamethrower)</li><li>StructuresOnly - Doesn't damage players or AI units (MASC, Whip Bombard)</li></ul>
Here are some beneficial effects of these simple types:
<ul><li>Basic marines and skulks are versatile.</li><li><!--coloro:#FFFF00--><span style="color:#FFFF00"><!--/coloro--><b>Shotguns won't absolutely waste skulks but are especially good at more advanced lifeforms and armored structures (Crags).</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></li><li>Lerks aren't especially effective at taking out structures from a distance (something that was a problem in old versions of NS1).</li><li>Marines can take down alien structures relatively quickly when they aren't defended (ie, when they have taken down defenders and pull out their axes).</li><li>When heavy marines are gassed by lerks, they aren't affected.</li></ul><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If any of this has changed, please direct me to where that has been stated.
In NS1 everyone gets shotguns, and then everyone gets HMGs. Currently there isn't anything better than a shotgun, flamers are somewhat better but for direct damage per second against everything, the shotgun is the best gun, which is why everyone uses it.
When on earth did NS1 have a situation where 'commanders drop weapons' didn't amount to 'commanders create a huge heap of guns at spawn and everyone gets one once they respawn'.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
so with this logic, when HMG gets in-game, nobody will buy shotguns anymore because they all will be buying hmg?
flamers aren't somewhat better, aliens have zero counter to this currently. Lets not forget flames still go through walls, which hasn't been fixed yet.
here are some ideas what can be done with the armory
1. allow lower tech to be bought from the armory but higher tech can only be dropped by the commander
2. the commander must use his own res to keep resupplying the armory for marines. So the commander controls what can be sold, how many of it and he's in charge of resupplying the armory. Aside from being able to drop weapons to marines, the commander has full control over the armory
even though personal res may have been adjusted it still doesn't solve the huge dependance marines have on the armory rather then the actual commander. The soul of the marines is the commander, he must supply his marines with weapons - as he has done in ns1. marines should not be so independent, I can't stress this enough.
If any of this has changed, please direct me to where that has been stated.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm. They certainly haven't changed anything relevant about the shotguns stats to give it that new role.
Hence my frustrations :)
it would REALLY take out that annoying situation of flamers destroying the entire team along with the hate for getting flamed helplessly and instantly?
Well it depends, see as I understand it, HMG is replaced with the minigun, which only the exosuit can use, so that forces a choice between exosuit and minigun, or jetpack and shotgun.
Of course it's also likely that the shotgun will get a significant nerf against structures so you'll see more GLs thrown into the mix, so you'll likely get at the very least, exosuit marines with minigun, jetpackers with shotguns, and jetpackers with grenade launchers. For those of us who can't aim worth a damn, the flamethrower is also a good option.
<!--quoteo(post=1848822:date=May 27 2011, 10:45 PM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ May 27 2011, 10:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1848822"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->flamers aren't somewhat better, aliens have zero counter to this currently. Lets not forget flames still go through walls, which hasn't been fixed yet.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
However they have pitifully bad DPS, which means a marine going against a fade, or even two or three marines against a couple of fades with flamers are probably going to die horribly. Flamers are good because they are easy to use and they light enemies up quite nicely, but you need shotguns to do the actual damage.
<!--quoteo(post=1848822:date=May 27 2011, 10:45 PM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ May 27 2011, 10:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1848822"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->here are some ideas what can be done with the armory
1. allow lower tech to be bought from the armory but higher tech can only be dropped by the commander
2. the commander must use his own res to keep resupplying the armory for marines. So the commander controls what can be sold, how many of it and he's in charge of resupplying the armory. Aside from being able to drop weapons to marines, the commander has full control over the armory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why?
<!--quoteo(post=1848822:date=May 27 2011, 10:45 PM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ May 27 2011, 10:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1848822"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->even though personal res may have been adjusted it still doesn't solve the huge dependance marines have on the armory rather then the actual commander. The soul of the marines is the commander, he must supply his marines with weapons - as he has done in ns1. marines should not be so independent, I can't stress this enough.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You keep saying that but you don't really give any compelling arguments as to why it has to be that way. The commander is one player, on a team of many players, most of the time most players will have nothing to do with the commander, this is by neccesity because the commander can only be in one place, while the team can be in many places. If the marine team has any 'soul' as you put it it's other marines and the interactions of the different roles, and there are going to be plenty of different roles for people to play, even more so now that the game affords players the option of picking exactly what they want to do, rather than forcing everyone to do the same thing because the commander can't sort between half a dozen different weapon/jetpack/armor piles at spawn.
i always felt shoehorned into a role.
players pick their roles in which they are the strongest. they then lend themselves to the team and assist the commander while the commander assists them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Being able to choose your own role (really giving tactical autonomy in general to the ground units) gives players more areas to excel in, feel more useful in, and enjoy the game through. That's where the Armory shines.
On the other hand, letting Marines run about without any restrictions or direction prevents them from making the best use of those skills, at the right times, because they don't know what's going on around them. That's where the Commander shines.
The best parts of the Marine game were when you succeeded through cooperation, but the worst were when you failed because success was almost entirely dependent on cooperation amongst Marines. This was due to a very restricting relationship between commander and soldier; there was as much if not more negative reinforcement for not cooperating as there was positive reinforcement for cooperating.
So a balance needs to be struck, to allow cooperating players to excel, but not gimp players who aren't perfect at it when they're 'fresh out of the IP'.
I think allowing players to pick their own weapons (which provides different skillsets for players to practice/master), but requiring the commander to hand out Jetpacks and Exosuits (which allows the commander to choose which units to empower at any given moment by dropping either one) is an excellent way to keep that balance.
The commander can still tell the team what to get and where the enemy is and what would be best to use against them, and the marines can still work together, assuming working together is actually useful, you don't really have much reason not to do it.
If working together isn't useful, and going alone is preferable, then I don't think arbitrarily forcing cooperating on people is a good idea, because it's clearly not a strong tactic.
Chuckle.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Transponder errors<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Interesting to hear the Transponder hasn't been scrapped yet, considering they seem to serve a redundant function (albeit with different implementation) of Phase Gates. Any words on that?
This concept has come up a couple times and I think it is a good one.
So to continue with the autonomy concept.
You REQUISITION a jetpack or exosuit at the armory.
The commander GRANTS the REQUISITION or ignores it.
To give you an idea ...it could be another row in the armory interface.
This would enable you the player to specify what you wanted but the commander has to decide if you are WORTH the bones :-)
Making it a game mechanism does not require the commander to remember every request made
(I want a exo, I want a jetpack, I want Dora's backpack, I want a pony)
But to review a list of price tags and names and decide who gets the goods.
Cool? or Lame?
Hope we get our hands on this soon (before the weekend is over)
Also, any chance of seeing the Mineshaft map anytime soon?
I would love to play that map, you said it was much bigger than the current ones so :)
<!--quoteo(post=1849685:date=Jun 2 2011, 10:26 PM:name=kingmob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kingmob @ Jun 2 2011, 10:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1849685"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So to continue with the autonomy concept.
You REQUISITION a jetpack or exosuit at the armory.
The commander GRANTS the REQUISITION or ignores it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->+1<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
That may get annoying if they implemented a sound or something to go along with a request. Hmm, there could be a limit on requests. Once per life or something. From the commanders perspective he could view their name and pts and reward the right players. The game so far is relatively small enough that the commander should know his 8-10 man squad decently well by the time requests (For JP's and Exo's) come around.
I like this idea all around really, it gives the commander something different to do since he cant drop weapons anymore. I also think that Jetpacks and Exosuits are too complicated for any normal marine to just pick up from the armory. They need to be rewarded :)
I atleast got merhaba wich I belive means hello/welcome and merhaba back at ya :D
Anyway lets continue the "the progress page is sooooo long ...." game, have fun with it while waiting for the patch to hit steam.
With all the critique and opinions, you STILL havn't asked for a refund?
The game is very much playable. When you have 16 players in a game with no lag and decent performance of 60fps+, THAT's playable. Has been for some time. This patch will make you see the true potential of the game. If you don't like it, get a refund so the rest of us can enjoy the game without the belittling of the developers who are working their arses off even at weekends and through the night just to make this game better.
Then get your goddamn refund and stop crying on the forum already - it got tiresome ages ago.
What? I must have been playing a different game on different servers, because no server sustains a decent tickrate with such player-numbers, and my client can by far not hold a 60+ FPS with so much action going on. If you mean this'll be the case with the new patch, I'll eagerly await it.