X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1859044:date=Jul 9 2011, 02:36 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolfighter @ Jul 9 2011, 02:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1859044"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The problem with the Reaver wasn't that it was too easy to obtain. If it had been harder to obtain fewer people would've had it, but that wouldn't have solved the inherent imbalance to it.
Stickman is going to tell you that the Reaver wasn't imbalanced at all because he is in denial about it and likes to troll me with it, but it was. It wasn't that it was insanely powerful in one category, but it was <u>at least average</u> at anything, and great at many things. It was a great personal transport, a good air-to-air dogfighter, excellent at anti-armour, good at anti-personnel, and it was a huge threat to the NC and TR anti-air MAXes (which, at least on paper, should be able to defend the airspace against them) as well.
The Reaver was the single most versatile vehicle in the game while still excelling in a specialised role - a jack of trades but master of one. Combine that with its crew requirement of one player and it was the soloer's dream and weapon of choice, and its abundance reflected that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
While I agree with the general "the reaver was good at everything" argument, my personal feeling from being a pilot most of the time (in mossies, reavers, bombers and galaxies, not just reavers) is that the reason reavers (and mossies, for that matter) kicked so much ass in the air was the general lack of anti-air stuff.
A skyguard with a decent gunner, for example, can keep the skies clear until it runs out of ammo. Because those things tore up aircraft like mad; a reaver pilot attacking one would *possibly* destroy it, but it'd almost certainly be a suicide run and most reaver pilots aren't willing to do that just to take out a single skyguard. That suggests to me that the reaver isn't so much overpowered as it is under-countered, because skyguards were a rare sight.
And again, as an NC pilot, I found TR targets much, much easier to attack than the VS. As mentioned earlier, the VS AA max was the only one that people consistently took, because it was actually <i>useful</i> in an anti-air role, whereas the NC and TR AA maxes were basically pointless unless dealing with a newbie pilot.
The general uselessness of AA weapons and the relative rarity in which they were used (seriously, I actually had my NC AA max certed for a few months and I ran into a situation where I could make use of it about 15 times, tops) makes people generally stay away from them as certs. Which means when you <i>do</i> need them, there aren't enough around, and the ones that are get taken out quickly.
To balance out the reaver, I'd lean towards making the rockets do less damage to infantry (in the time-honoured game tradition of infantry somehow being almost immune to anti-armour weapons), and generally buffing the AA equipment. Maybe make it somewhat effective at anti-armour too, or maybe remove AA as a specific cert and have it lumped in with something else, so there's just more AA stuff around when necessary.
I think you have a point there. Small correction on the Skyguard though: While a good gunner is important, a good driver is more important. A good driver keeps the vehicle moving at all times without hitting obstacles, crashing into the ubiquotous minefields (which destroy a Skyguard all but instantly due to its flimsy armour) or running into other trouble (like enemy tanks).
Whether attacking a Skyguard was a suicide run depended entirely on how alert its crew was. If the gunner was paying attention but the driver wasn't, you could kill the Skyguard on a suicide run. If the driver paid attention but the gunner didn't, you would do damage but probably be driven off by the gunner before scoring the kill. If both were mindful of their surroundings you had no chance. And of course if you managed to get the drop on an inattentive Skyguard crew, free kill.
Although I think another problem was that a lot of the AA stuff wasn't terribly deadly. The VS and NC AA MAX alerted you to their presence when they locked their missiles on, giving you time to light the afterburners and hit the deck to break weapons lock and evade the missiles - the VS one being the more dangerous of the two by far. The TR AA MAX and the Skyguard had to lead your trajectory with dumbfire projectiles, meaning that if you changed course after the first hit(s) and flew evasively you could often escape as well. You could chase off a Reaver, but scoring a kill on it was harder, and as long as you didn't kill it it could keep coming back from different angles trying to sneak up on your position and blast you to hell, because anything that was a danger to a Reaver was also highly vulnerable to it.
VS AA alerted you to the lock after launch, which made it so deadly (coupled with being able to jump over Reaver rocket spam). NC AA alerted you while it locking and, while it had tremendous range, meant that as soon as you pointed the weapon system at someone they'd just dive for the trees and as soon as a single whip antenna got between you and them, the lock would break and you'd have to sit there waiting for it to lock again. NC's AA should've been the superior system as it had great range and was easy to use, but because the clowns at SOE are unable to wrap their minds around gameplay theoretics, they ###### it up and ruined it.
Regarding the Skyguard, that to me reflects a problem with the mentality of air vs. ground. It's the same problem I have in, say, Mechwarrior Living Legends with their aircraft. The situation is almost the exact same, really. That is, balance cannot realistically exist when anti-aircraft roles only ever exist to the exclusion of everything else. An air-to-ground Reaver gets to laugh and score tons of XP annihilating retards on the ground, because that's what it's supposed to do and there will always be ground targets. The guys on the ground get to shoot guys on the ground, because that's what the game is. However, anti-aircraft roles are defensive measures, so as long as there's no aircraft, there's no point to being there which effectively means you have one less Vanguard on the field. Additionally, they're always vulnerable to ground attack (and, subsequently, air attack if a pilot's ballsy enough) and are useless doing anything else. So it comes down to: Flying is fun. Tanking is fun. Tanking an anti-flyer is NOT fun, because you're useless at doing anything except hoping aircraft come to you.
The real issue at heart isn't that the Skyguard should be a one-man vehicle (which maybe it should've been) or that it should be a massively up-armored death machine, but it's hardly fair balance to allow individual ***holes to fly around with their ######s out and rape everything on the ground while forcing TWO people to counter that threat.
Compare to say, the Shrike, the only single-seater attack vehicle in Tribes. It was fast, it was a LOT of fun to fly, but it was also not very effective. You could get some great kills with it and it excelled at harassing aircraft, but against ground targets it required either a pilot with good aim or good steering (*SPLUD* "I AM THE GREATEST!"). No real dedicated anti-aircraft platform existed except perhaps the missile launcher itself (which was just a harassment weapon, not very useful) or other shrikes. And you know what - it worked great.
Honestly the most hilarious anti-aircraft weapon I've ever seen in a game was the Tribes Shocklance which would cause them to spaz out, flip upside down, crash and explode. Instant hilarity if you were in a dropship :D
I had saved set-ups for all the Vanu Max classes but often I fell victim to air attack only to change to my AA set-up on respawn and stand about waiting for ages for aircraft that never appear again.
If the AA class had a sub weapon suited for infantry combat then it would be a lot more useful.
Temphage, did you imply that the Rocklet rifle is annoying and spammy in the middle there? In my experience it's a huge turd except if you load it with frag grenades, then it becomes sorta useful against mossies that don't realize you can actually kill them if they sit still.
Otherwise mostly agree, though I dunno about more lethal combat. I enjoy arcadey, and not being one-shot killed by snipers is a huge relief compared to other games where it's just "Oh you were busy playing the game? ###### you."
It does seem that they want to make players specialize more if these classes and customization options are anything to go by.
Yeah the rocklet rifle was a huge turd. You COULD destroy a mossie with it, but then you could also destroy a reaver or a galaxy with it, you just had to fire enough shots. And not even a mossie could be destroyed without reloading if it was at full health, so unless the pilot was vastly incompetent you'd scratch him, but not kill him. The only effective infantry anti-air were the AA MAXes and to a lesser extent the TR striker launcher, which also couldn't kill anything without reloading but was at least target-seeking.
Yeah, two Unload Clip-s for one mossie. Those go off decently fast at least, so if they think "pfft infantry killing aircraft? impossible!" (which they have good reason to...) they'll go down. I've got a few kills with it. But yeah, it's a retard-killer at best.
Any handheld AA was a retard-killer at best. Rocklet rifle was puny, striker gave enough warning to escape (and still took long enough to score a kill that you could simply kill the wielder first), lancer couldn't hit a nimble target, and the phoenix had too low a rate of fire. Outdoor life for anyone but the most suicidally retarded was restricted to tree cover, large groups of friendlies with some dedicated AA, or the cloaking suit.
Whole bunch of news (olds by now but I was away) that nobody's posted about? <a href="http://www.planetside-universe.com/p-fan-faire-2011-qa-70.htm" target="_blank">http://www.planetside-universe.com/p-fan-f...-2011-qa-70.htm</a> <ul><li>Locational damage (and on vehicles too!)</li><li>squad spawning is done by pod-dropping</li><li>can spawn in Galaxies</li><li>possibly volumetric clouds that aircraft can hide in</li><li><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->no third person!<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> basically.</li><li>combat less centred on bases; no purpose-built facilities like dropship center</li></ul>
<a href="http://www.planetside-universe.com/p-john-smedley-qa-79.htm" target="_blank">http://www.planetside-universe.com/p-john-smedley-qa-79.htm</a> Free to play, cash shop - no paying for power, mostly thinking of customization. Also, <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We plan on announcing a 3 year post launch vision for the game to go into detail on this. We will take fan feedback and alter the plan and really listen to the community feedback.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href="http://www.planetside-universe.com/p-planetside-2-impressions-78.htm" target="_blank">http://www.planetside-universe.com/p-plane...ressions-78.htm</a> misc things about the skill system, like hardcore players having an advantage but there not being a huge gap like before, or focusing entirely on say being a gal pilot and getting more manoeuvrability class system is more like tf2 less like wow
<a href="http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/il5og/hey_rplanetside_im_matt_higby_the_creative/" target="_blank">http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comment...y_the_creative/</a> <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->well, we (game developers) put this stuff in because people, in general, like feeling like they're getting more powerful. meaningful character progression is integral to keeping many people interested and motivated in games. Planetside 2 will always be about player skill first and foremost.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> so there's still stuff like CR5, or BFR access, but maybe not as exaggerated? more like implants maybe <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Squad spawning is really tricky to balance, no doubt. What we haven't talked about are things like the requirements to do it (needs a relatively advanced spec'd squad leader in your squad to use) and it will be on some kind of cooldown based on the squad leader. It's definitely not designed to be your primary respawn method.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> AMSs will still be vital then, sweet <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the engine supports day/night cycle really, really well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We've got a really cool weather system design, I'm hoping we can squeeze it in for launch. Gameplay affecting things like volumetric fog/clouds shouldn't be able to be toggled.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Battlerank is character based, unless you never actually participate in combat you'll be BR 20 (our current max, not necessarily our final max) long, long before you max out a skill tree. Once you're BR 20 the entire skill tree will be open to you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You'll see many weapons cross classes, you just won't see heavy weapons on light classes, or max weapons on heavy classes, etc. Some weapons will be more locked down than others.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> doesn't sound much more restrictive than ex. infiltration suit only being able to wield pistol-sized weapons
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>viable infantry anti-air.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Right now there's no plan to allow for recert.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> wtf <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We're using PhysX for all our vehicles.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"Any thoughts on boats/ships/sea combat?" I think it's awesome, boats rule<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> well that's as unhelpful as it could be <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The classes are designed to give a specific combat role to soldiers on the battlefield. This helps a few things: 1) makes enemies immediately recognizable, you see someone and you'll know what sort of bad things they'll be able to do to you<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->there will be several leadership related skill trees that you can progress through - progressing these means sacrificing progressing in other, more direct combat orientated roles<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Inventory won't exist in the same way as it did in PS1. There will still be loadouts, but you won't have to manage inventory space to trade-off ammo for medkits, etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->bullets are simulated objects, they have physics, drop over distances, travel time, etc. There is cone of fire, recoil, all that snazzy stuff.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There aren't animations for getting into or out of vehicles.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> aw.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you guys don't like the strawberry jam???<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <b>B-B-B-B-BLOODY SCREEN!!</b> <i>So real...</i> (it's not in) <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->yes<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> there will be an assist system, no kill-stealing <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I do like boats, probably won't see them at launch, though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> aw... <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"As an outfit leader, will I need to spec in leadership just to create/control my outfit?" Nope, we moved away from this because it sucked if you're in a huge outfit and the leader with all the outfit leadership skills quits. Outfits DO have a skill tree though, it's progressed similar to the player progression (outfit leaders and designated officers can decide where the time based skill unlocks go), and it unlocks things like max outfit size, outfit customization (visual and gameplay related).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You're never stuck, capped or locked in to anything with the PS2 cert system. Recerting isn't necessary because there's no restrictions on how many certs you can have trained at a time, just how many you can take advantage of on any given loadout.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> ooohh, that makes more sense
Nothing in there about playing poker with your pals (and enemies!) while waiting for the cap to finish though. Bah!
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Free to play, cash shop - no paying for power, mostly thinking of customization. Also,<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Battlefield: Heroes started out as a free-to-play game where money would mainly buy you cosmetical items and small advantages, the latter of which could also be bought with currency earned in the game. Later on they started selling significant advantages for real-life currency, causing fierce backlash.
Did the game not earn enough money through the "cosmetic" business model, or was it a blatant cash grab? You decide.
I really couldn't really see the shop selling <b><i>just</i></b> vanity items like armour aesthetics and so on since that alone isn't likely to cover server costs while still making any significant profit.
I still don't really get how they're combining the skill tree and cert points. The image I've got in my mind is something like:
You need some minimum number of cert points for a class (say, 3 for MAX armor so you get both the armour and a default anti-infantry loadout), and can then spend cert points on specific stuff you want for it (jumpjets, shields, anti-vehicle weapon) that your loadouts can use in limited combinations (so only one weapon and only one special ability).
As soon as you have certed something for a class, a skill tree become available for it (basic shields skill:increased efficiency reduces over-time capacitor loss --> shaped shields:more effective against explosives but less against bullets OR leg dynamos:shield capacitor charges faster while auto-running but cannot be active while doing so)
That still doesn't explain "not needing recerts" entirely though.
In PS1 it was easy to acquire more certs than you could use at any given moment, or even certs that could never be used together (like Rexo and Infil suit). This meant that one cert was effectively "wasted" while using the other - having the Rexo cert was of no use to you while you were running around cloaking.
Again, maybe Eve Online provides a useful comparison: Eve has no "recert" or "reskill" either. It is possible to have maxed out your piloting skill for both interceptors and heavy interdictors, but you can still only fly one ship at a time. Once you've learned interceptors, there's no need to drop that skill in order to pick up heavy interdictors, but no matter how many different ships you learn to fly you will still only be able to use one at a time.
It's hard to say exactly how it works when we have so limited information to go on. Presumably things will get clearer as release approaches.
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
I'm hopping it's more on those lines than the possible "Well, you can know all these skills, but you have X number of skill slots, and thus can only use X number of skills at a time".
The difference being that the 2nd one would really be recerting every time you want to change a role (need air support, go recert).
Recerting certainly becomes less <i>necessary</i> with the imagined setup compared to PS1, but you'd still want to be able to un-cert "AV MAX weapon" for example and get "jumpjets" instead, so saying that recerting would have no use seems too strong a statement.
I guess if we can get everything for every class once at BR20...
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
To me it sounds more like you can have all the certs possible (eventually) or something, but you can't use some of them depending on what class you're running.
So say you've got cloak or hacking or max or whatever, but you can only use the cloak certs if you're running a light-class character, and can't use the max suits or heavy armour or big weapons.
Or whatever. I haven't really followed it that much.
<!--quoteo(post=1861929:date=Jul 20 2011, 11:41 AM:name=X_Stickman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (X_Stickman @ Jul 20 2011, 11:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1861929"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To me it sounds more like you can have all the certs possible (eventually) or something, but you can't use some of them depending on what class you're running.
So say you've got cloak or hacking or max or whatever, but you can only use the cloak certs if you're running a light-class character, and can't use the max suits or heavy armour or big weapons.
Or whatever. I haven't really followed it that much.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I'd bet like *gasp* CoD where you have all the options, but have to select them as part of a class.
That does make more sense. Though I suppose only the MAX class can use MAX equipment... EDIT: Just saw <a href="http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showpost.php?p=572465&postcount=187" target="_blank">this</a> <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you're BR 10, that's on your character. Classes don't really have RANKS, they have CERTS which are locked or "gated" by the player's overall rank. So, if you're BR 10, you aren't automatically a level 10 AA Max since a level 10 AA max doesn't actually exist in a meaningful way. But, you have access to unlock level 10 AA Max CERTS, those <b>CERTS would still require time to train and unlock.</b> [...] More advanced roles (Such as MAX or Liberator) may require advancement down a specific skill tree to unlock, for instance you may need to spend some time training Heavy Assault to unlock MAX skill trees, that way everyone can't just spawn an untrained powerful vehicle / weapon and still be very powerful with it despite not having any of the bells and whistles unlocked.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
I've never been a fan of the "it takes x amount of time to train this thing" idea for games. On one hand it means you can manage your downtime effectively, so you can set something going while you're not playing, which is good.
On the other hand it sets up very specific "waves" of people who play. No matter how good you are, you're never going to have all the skills that someone who started playing 4 weeks before you does, because they'll always be 4 weeks ahead of you unless *they* mess up. Your own abilities play no part in it.
I guess we'll see how it goes, but I don't want to get shotgunned in the face when I don't have a shotgun, the only reason being that the guy who shot me started playing 4 days before I did.
I'm a fan of putting the skill in the player. That's a big reason I don't like WoW and the like. Planetside was good for this because you could get almost anything in the game pretty quickly. But to be good you had to be good (at least early on, from what I've been reading about what happened later, I'm glad I was out by then).
I had fun, but I was never <i>good</i>. I couldn't so called hotswap two decimators to take out a tank, just how I could never bunny hop in HL1. :( But at least I felt like I really did get owned when someone killed me with those tactics. They didn't just look up a skill progression online and then put the time in.
What they're talking about seems like it's going in the wrong direction. Apparently, you do kills gud to get BR, then the BR lets you do more offline leveling to get more gud guns and crap for you and your ridez.
Comments
Stickman is going to tell you that the Reaver wasn't imbalanced at all because he is in denial about it and likes to troll me with it, but it was. It wasn't that it was insanely powerful in one category, but it was <u>at least average</u> at anything, and great at many things. It was a great personal transport, a good air-to-air dogfighter, excellent at anti-armour, good at anti-personnel, and it was a huge threat to the NC and TR anti-air MAXes (which, at least on paper, should be able to defend the airspace against them) as well.
The Reaver was the single most versatile vehicle in the game while still excelling in a specialised role - a jack of trades but master of one. Combine that with its crew requirement of one player and it was the soloer's dream and weapon of choice, and its abundance reflected that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
While I agree with the general "the reaver was good at everything" argument, my personal feeling from being a pilot most of the time (in mossies, reavers, bombers and galaxies, not just reavers) is that the reason reavers (and mossies, for that matter) kicked so much ass in the air was the general lack of anti-air stuff.
A skyguard with a decent gunner, for example, can keep the skies clear until it runs out of ammo. Because those things tore up aircraft like mad; a reaver pilot attacking one would *possibly* destroy it, but it'd almost certainly be a suicide run and most reaver pilots aren't willing to do that just to take out a single skyguard. That suggests to me that the reaver isn't so much overpowered as it is under-countered, because skyguards were a rare sight.
And again, as an NC pilot, I found TR targets much, much easier to attack than the VS. As mentioned earlier, the VS AA max was the only one that people consistently took, because it was actually <i>useful</i> in an anti-air role, whereas the NC and TR AA maxes were basically pointless unless dealing with a newbie pilot.
The general uselessness of AA weapons and the relative rarity in which they were used (seriously, I actually had my NC AA max certed for a few months and I ran into a situation where I could make use of it about 15 times, tops) makes people generally stay away from them as certs. Which means when you <i>do</i> need them, there aren't enough around, and the ones that are get taken out quickly.
To balance out the reaver, I'd lean towards making the rockets do less damage to infantry (in the time-honoured game tradition of infantry somehow being almost immune to anti-armour weapons), and generally buffing the AA equipment. Maybe make it somewhat effective at anti-armour too, or maybe remove AA as a specific cert and have it lumped in with something else, so there's just more AA stuff around when necessary.
Whether attacking a Skyguard was a suicide run depended entirely on how alert its crew was. If the gunner was paying attention but the driver wasn't, you could kill the Skyguard on a suicide run. If the driver paid attention but the gunner didn't, you would do damage but probably be driven off by the gunner before scoring the kill. If both were mindful of their surroundings you had no chance. And of course if you managed to get the drop on an inattentive Skyguard crew, free kill.
Although I think another problem was that a lot of the AA stuff wasn't terribly deadly. The VS and NC AA MAX alerted you to their presence when they locked their missiles on, giving you time to light the afterburners and hit the deck to break weapons lock and evade the missiles - the VS one being the more dangerous of the two by far. The TR AA MAX and the Skyguard had to lead your trajectory with dumbfire projectiles, meaning that if you changed course after the first hit(s) and flew evasively you could often escape as well. You could chase off a Reaver, but scoring a kill on it was harder, and as long as you didn't kill it it could keep coming back from different angles trying to sneak up on your position and blast you to hell, because anything that was a danger to a Reaver was also highly vulnerable to it.
Regarding the Skyguard, that to me reflects a problem with the mentality of air vs. ground. It's the same problem I have in, say, Mechwarrior Living Legends with their aircraft. The situation is almost the exact same, really. That is, balance cannot realistically exist when anti-aircraft roles only ever exist to the exclusion of everything else. An air-to-ground Reaver gets to laugh and score tons of XP annihilating retards on the ground, because that's what it's supposed to do and there will always be ground targets. The guys on the ground get to shoot guys on the ground, because that's what the game is. However, anti-aircraft roles are defensive measures, so as long as there's no aircraft, there's no point to being there which effectively means you have one less Vanguard on the field. Additionally, they're always vulnerable to ground attack (and, subsequently, air attack if a pilot's ballsy enough) and are useless doing anything else. So it comes down to: Flying is fun. Tanking is fun. Tanking an anti-flyer is NOT fun, because you're useless at doing anything except hoping aircraft come to you.
The real issue at heart isn't that the Skyguard should be a one-man vehicle (which maybe it should've been) or that it should be a massively up-armored death machine, but it's hardly fair balance to allow individual ***holes to fly around with their ######s out and rape everything on the ground while forcing TWO people to counter that threat.
Compare to say, the Shrike, the only single-seater attack vehicle in Tribes. It was fast, it was a LOT of fun to fly, but it was also not very effective. You could get some great kills with it and it excelled at harassing aircraft, but against ground targets it required either a pilot with good aim or good steering (*SPLUD* "I AM THE GREATEST!"). No real dedicated anti-aircraft platform existed except perhaps the missile launcher itself (which was just a harassment weapon, not very useful) or other shrikes. And you know what - it worked great.
Honestly the most hilarious anti-aircraft weapon I've ever seen in a game was the Tribes Shocklance which would cause them to spaz out, flip upside down, crash and explode. Instant hilarity if you were in a dropship :D
If the AA class had a sub weapon suited for infantry combat then it would be a lot more useful.
Otherwise mostly agree, though I dunno about more lethal combat. I enjoy arcadey, and not being one-shot killed by snipers is a huge relief compared to other games where it's just "Oh you were busy playing the game? ###### you."
It does seem that they want to make players specialize more if these classes and customization options are anything to go by.
But yeah, it's a retard-killer at best.
<a href="http://www.planetside-universe.com/p-fan-faire-2011-qa-70.htm" target="_blank">http://www.planetside-universe.com/p-fan-f...-2011-qa-70.htm</a>
<ul><li>Locational damage (and on vehicles too!)</li><li>squad spawning is done by pod-dropping</li><li>can spawn in Galaxies</li><li>possibly volumetric clouds that aircraft can hide in</li><li><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->no third person!<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> basically.</li><li>combat less centred on bases; no purpose-built facilities like dropship center</li></ul>
<a href="http://www.planetside-universe.com/p-john-smedley-qa-79.htm" target="_blank">http://www.planetside-universe.com/p-john-smedley-qa-79.htm</a>
Free to play, cash shop - no paying for power, mostly thinking of customization. Also,
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We plan on announcing a 3 year post launch vision for the game to go into detail on this. We will take fan feedback and alter the plan and really listen to the community feedback.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href="http://www.planetside-universe.com/p-planetside-2-impressions-78.htm" target="_blank">http://www.planetside-universe.com/p-plane...ressions-78.htm</a>
misc things about the skill system, like hardcore players having an advantage but there not being a huge gap like before, or focusing entirely on say being a gal pilot and getting more manoeuvrability
class system is more like tf2 less like wow
<a href="http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/il5og/hey_rplanetside_im_matt_higby_the_creative/" target="_blank">http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comment...y_the_creative/</a>
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->well, we (game developers) put this stuff in because people, in general, like feeling like they're getting more powerful. meaningful character progression is integral to keeping many people interested and motivated in games. Planetside 2 will always be about player skill first and foremost.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
so there's still stuff like CR5, or BFR access, but maybe not as exaggerated? more like implants maybe
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Squad spawning is really tricky to balance, no doubt. What we haven't talked about are things like the requirements to do it (needs a relatively advanced spec'd squad leader in your squad to use) and it will be on some kind of cooldown based on the squad leader. It's definitely not designed to be your primary respawn method.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
AMSs will still be vital then, sweet
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the engine supports day/night cycle really, really well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We've got a really cool weather system design, I'm hoping we can squeeze it in for launch. Gameplay affecting things like volumetric fog/clouds shouldn't be able to be toggled.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Battlerank is character based, unless you never actually participate in combat you'll be BR 20 (our current max, not necessarily our final max) long, long before you max out a skill tree. Once you're BR 20 the entire skill tree will be open to you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You'll see many weapons cross classes, you just won't see heavy weapons on light classes, or max weapons on heavy classes, etc. Some weapons will be more locked down than others.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
doesn't sound much more restrictive than ex. infiltration suit only being able to wield pistol-sized weapons
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Right now there's no plan to allow for recert.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
wtf
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We're using PhysX for all our vehicles.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"Any thoughts on boats/ships/sea combat?" I think it's awesome, boats rule<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
well that's as unhelpful as it could be
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The classes are designed to give a specific combat role to soldiers on the battlefield. This helps a few things: 1) makes enemies immediately recognizable, you see someone and you'll know what sort of bad things they'll be able to do to you<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->there will be several leadership related skill trees that you can progress through - progressing these means sacrificing progressing in other, more direct combat orientated roles<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Inventory won't exist in the same way as it did in PS1. There will still be loadouts, but you won't have to manage inventory space to trade-off ammo for medkits, etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->bullets are simulated objects, they have physics, drop over distances, travel time, etc. There is cone of fire, recoil, all that snazzy stuff.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There aren't animations for getting into or out of vehicles.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
aw.
<b>B-B-B-B-BLOODY SCREEN!!</b> <i>So real...</i>
(it's not in)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->yes<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
there will be an assist system, no kill-stealing
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I do like boats, probably won't see them at launch, though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
aw...
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"As an outfit leader, will I need to spec in leadership just to create/control my outfit?" Nope, we moved away from this because it sucked if you're in a huge outfit and the leader with all the outfit leadership skills quits. Outfits DO have a skill tree though, it's progressed similar to the player progression (outfit leaders and designated officers can decide where the time based skill unlocks go), and it unlocks things like max outfit size, outfit customization (visual and gameplay related).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You're never stuck, capped or locked in to anything with the PS2 cert system. Recerting isn't necessary because there's no restrictions on how many certs you can have trained at a time, just how many you can take advantage of on any given loadout.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ooohh, that makes more sense
Nothing in there about playing poker with your pals (and enemies!) while waiting for the cap to finish though. Bah!
Yay another f2p game.......
Did the game not earn enough money through the "cosmetic" business model, or was it a blatant cash grab? You decide.
I really couldn't really see the shop selling <b><i>just</i></b> vanity items like armour aesthetics and so on since that alone isn't likely to cover server costs while still making any significant profit.
I'm sure there will be a catch somewhere.
You need some minimum number of cert points for a class (say, 3 for MAX armor so you get both the armour and a default anti-infantry loadout), and can then spend cert points on specific stuff you want for it (jumpjets, shields, anti-vehicle weapon) that your loadouts can use in limited combinations (so only one weapon and only one special ability).
As soon as you have certed something for a class, a skill tree become available for it (basic shields skill:increased efficiency reduces over-time capacitor loss --> shaped shields:more effective against explosives but less against bullets OR leg dynamos:shield capacitor charges faster while auto-running but cannot be active while doing so)
That still doesn't explain "not needing recerts" entirely though.
Again, maybe Eve Online provides a useful comparison: Eve has no "recert" or "reskill" either. It is possible to have maxed out your piloting skill for both interceptors and heavy interdictors, but you can still only fly one ship at a time. Once you've learned interceptors, there's no need to drop that skill in order to pick up heavy interdictors, but no matter how many different ships you learn to fly you will still only be able to use one at a time.
It's hard to say exactly how it works when we have so limited information to go on. Presumably things will get clearer as release approaches.
The difference being that the 2nd one would really be recerting every time you want to change a role (need air support, go recert).
I guess if we can get everything for every class once at BR20...
So say you've got cloak or hacking or max or whatever, but you can only use the cloak certs if you're running a light-class character, and can't use the max suits or heavy armour or big weapons.
Or whatever. I haven't really followed it that much.
So say you've got cloak or hacking or max or whatever, but you can only use the cloak certs if you're running a light-class character, and can't use the max suits or heavy armour or big weapons.
Or whatever. I haven't really followed it that much.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I'd bet like *gasp* CoD where you have all the options, but have to select them as part of a class.
EDIT: Just saw <a href="http://www.planetside-universe.com/forums/showpost.php?p=572465&postcount=187" target="_blank">this</a>
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you're BR 10, that's on your character. Classes don't really have RANKS, they have CERTS which are locked or "gated" by the player's overall rank. So, if you're BR 10, you aren't automatically a level 10 AA Max since a level 10 AA max doesn't actually exist in a meaningful way. But, you have access to unlock level 10 AA Max CERTS, those <b>CERTS would still require time to train and unlock.</b>
[...]
More advanced roles (Such as MAX or Liberator) may require advancement down a specific skill tree to unlock, for instance you may need to spend some time training Heavy Assault to unlock MAX skill trees, that way everyone can't just spawn an untrained powerful vehicle / weapon and still be very powerful with it despite not having any of the bells and whistles unlocked.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
On the other hand it sets up very specific "waves" of people who play. No matter how good you are, you're never going to have all the skills that someone who started playing 4 weeks before you does, because they'll always be 4 weeks ahead of you unless *they* mess up. Your own abilities play no part in it.
I guess we'll see how it goes, but I don't want to get shotgunned in the face when I don't have a shotgun, the only reason being that the guy who shot me started playing 4 days before I did.
I had fun, but I was never <i>good</i>. I couldn't so called hotswap two decimators to take out a tank, just how I could never bunny hop in HL1. :( But at least I felt like I really did get owned when someone killed me with those tactics. They didn't just look up a skill progression online and then put the time in.
What they're talking about seems like it's going in the wrong direction. Apparently, you do kills gud to get BR, then the BR lets you do more offline leveling to get more gud guns and crap for you and your ridez.
Apparently they feel that players won't stick around for as long if there's no distinct progress to be made.
How excited are you guys.! ?
Preorders are showing up all over the place
<a href="http://www.gamestop.com/pc/games/planetside-2/92542" target="_blank">http://www.gamestop.com/pc/games/planetside-2/92542</a>