<u>Prevalence of commander hand-offs part-way through game because comm out of personal resources (would never happen assist abilities cost team resources) - Consider changing med and ammo back to team resources (but this will give aliens waay too many team resources). I don’t like this one bit.</u>
Change it to Energy and link it to the CC!
Otherwise you've got a structure whose only reason for having an Energy pool is to cast Nano-Grid Defense. Might give rise to multiple CC strategies.
<u>When the infestation is on fire, it will do damage over time to the pustule. When the pustule is on fire, it will take additional damage. The idea here is that you can attack the infestation with the flamethrower (only) and have some effect, but you can be the most effective when you attack the pustule directly.</u>
Seems to contradict the following
<u>Flamethrower role somewhat ambiguous It’s supposed to “crippleâ€, and attack infestation, but not sure it’s tuned for that yet.</u>
According to the former quote, the Flamethrower's unique ability to attack infestation directly (via Flaming Infestation) was designed to be LESS EFFECTIVE than every other weapon's indirect ability to attack infestation (via attacking Pustules), but according to the latter, the Flamethrower is supposed to cripple and attack infestation? Aren't these polar opposites?
Shouldn't the idea be that you can attack pustules with all weapons and have some effect against infestation, but can be the most effective when you have a Flamethrower?
If Infestation deals periodic damage to it's pustule when it's On Fire and the damage is made stackable, you've solved your problem there, haven't you? As more and more Infestation catches fire the pustule takes more and more damage each tick. Since Infestation can only catch fire from a Flamethrower, it's regained it's conditional advantage against Infestation.
<u>Viability of multiple commanders A relatively low priority goal admittedly.</u>
Was never really sure what problem multiple commanders aimed to solve. To reduce the work for the Commander? If the <u>Four Hour Work Week</u> taught me anything, it's not to waste resources doing something yourself when you can hire someone else to do it cheaper!
Let the Comm outsource some of his responsibilities! Allow him to delegate to Squads instead of individual Marines, and give Squad Leaders an extended Sayings Menu that allows them to set (overridable) waypoints for their Squad members ('Follow Me', 'Defend Target', Hold Your Ground', 'Attack!'). This persistent group/buddy system would also be good to ease new players in to the game.
<u>- Possibly not allowing marines to sprint on infestation (nice one, Rokiyo/RevengeNZ! I’m trying this out).</u>
Make it drain Stamina quicker, but don't disable it altogether.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
edited June 2011
I love the infestation name. I would hate to see it being changed :(
I like the idea of not sprinting on infestation(sticky goo), but sprinting still needs some kind of stamina(when not on infestation). Jumping could also be linked to this stamina. I know you are gonna restrict jumping later on, but if you used all your stamina on sprinting, you shouldnt be able to jump either.
<!--quoteo(post=1852055:date=Jun 12 2011, 10:48 PM:name=swalk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (swalk @ Jun 12 2011, 10:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1852055"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I love the infestation name. I would hate to see it being changed :(
I like the idea of not sprinting on infestation(sticky goo), but sprinting still needs some kind of stamina(when not on infestation). Jumping could also be linked to this stamina.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
same here, and people just call it 'infest' for short
<!--quoteo(post=1851854:date=Jun 11 2011, 07:33 PM:name=Obraxis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Obraxis @ Jun 11 2011, 07:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1851854"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm suggesting 'Grout' as the name for infestation.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Infestation is infestation.
Grout is - <img src="http://harrogatehouseoffers.com/images/H63568---GROUT-MARKER.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Symbiosis - Share damage among nearby friendlies, never killing anyone when you could damage someone else. Don’t trigger alerts for secondary targets. Great for Gorges esp. who can be nearby but out of range and can heal themselves. Would only work for others with upgrade, which is weird and wouldn’t be apparent. How about:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--coloro:#FFFF00--><span style="color:#FFFF00"><!--/coloro-->Why not give this to Marines in Squads<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> (and consider limiting it to only damage friendly Armor)? Wouldn't that provide incentive for teamwork?
<!--quoteo(post=1852192:date=Jun 12 2011, 04:16 PM:name=KuBaN)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KuBaN @ Jun 12 2011, 04:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1852192"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--coloro:#FFFF00--><span style="color:#FFFF00"><!--/coloro-->Why not give this to Marines in Squads<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> (and consider limiting it to only damage friendly Armor)? Wouldn't that provide incentive for teamwork?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You mean... *gasp* share nanites?
<i><b>MY</b></i> nanites >:(
/ontopic
I actually wouldn't mind seeing this idea tried out. It could make the difference of an extra bite, which could save countless marine lives.
<!--quoteo(post=1851628:date=Jun 10 2011, 05:45 PM:name=IeptBarakat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IeptBarakat @ Jun 10 2011, 05:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1851628"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Medpacks no longer heal armor.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which never made any sense. It's not like a gorge can only heal a fades health, and they have to retreat to the nearest hive for the armor.
This is one of the reasons marine expansion rate is so slow. An endless supply of meds and ammo from the com isn't enough... they need to run to an armory after every engagement with the enemy. Or the alternative is your just an easy kill to feed the aliens personal res, because having 100% health and 0% armor still means instant death.
<!--quoteo(post=1852197:date=Jun 12 2011, 05:37 PM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FocusedWolf @ Jun 12 2011, 05:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1852197"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's not like a gorge can only heal a fades health, and they have to retreat to the nearest hive for the armor.
This is one of the reasons marine expansion rate is so slow. An endless supply of meds and ammo from the com isn't enough... they need to run to an armory after every engagement with the enemy. Or the alternative is your just an easy kill to feed the aliens personal res, because having 100% health and 0% armor still means instant death.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All of the units units die too quickly for my tastes, save for the Fade. I'd much prefer the more drawn out 1-on-1 combat of the Fade, wherein it doesn't just feel like the first person to get a hit in wins.
<!--quoteo(post=1851872:date=Jun 11 2011, 10:16 PM:name=Afan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Afan @ Jun 11 2011, 10:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1851872"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Unkown Worlds is stealing more than just the idea of creep from Starcraft. Starcraft also has guns and aliens, Natural Selection has these too. coincidence? I think not.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They even went so far as to steal one of the SC2 developers too! If you're gonna steal stuff you might aswell go all in and get someone who knows it all first hand ;)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><ul><li>Drifter abilities? Allows comm to affect areas off infestation, but marines can stop it. Ie, drifter can shoot dart that hits ground and makes gas puff that blocks LOS (for marines) temporarily. Allows comm to affect combat without debuffing marines and without having to click aliens.</li><li>Pustule abilities? Each pustule could be evolved into a “sentry†that acts like a siren when enemies come within range,</li></ul><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
These functions are kinda covered by Lerk Spore, Hive Sight/Parasite and Hydra alert state, but no harm in brainstorming.
Maybe, add a mature pustule that emits passive Umbra-like mist for added environment effect. Flashlight won't be able to pierce through this mist, and infestation doesn't catch fire when Flamethrowers come a blazin' through the mist?
<!--quoteo(post=1851662:date=Jun 11 2011, 12:09 AM:name=jkflipflop)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jkflipflop @ Jun 11 2011, 12:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1851662"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's called infestation in NS2, not creep. Also, Starcraft was not the first to come up with an alien race that expands via living bio-goo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's correct, both Starcraft and NS2 are ripping off the Alien series. But you know what they say about imitation and flattery.
Vladimir Van VodkaSexy BeastJoin Date: 2010-07-30Member: 73364Members, Reinforced - Shadow
edited June 2011
UWE, Please inspect my <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=113779" target="_blank">Cerberi</a> suggestion for giving the alien commander more dynamic abilities for the environment!
<!--quoteo(post=1852456:date=Jun 13 2011, 11:16 PM:name=Vladimir Van Vodka)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vladimir Van Vodka @ Jun 13 2011, 11:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1852456"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->UWE, Please inspect my <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=113779" target="_blank">Cerberi</a> suggestion for giving the alien commander more dynamic abilities for the environment!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
come on, this thread is for their design decisions, not our ideas. i'd rather see the real Croach graphics, and the light ray stuff added back in (why bloom and no light rays?) and even the rest of the playable characters, before anyone even has a thought about suggesting new alien buildings or abilities that aren't even in the game design.
Vladimir Van VodkaSexy BeastJoin Date: 2010-07-30Member: 73364Members, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1852459:date=Jun 14 2011, 03:56 AM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Jun 14 2011, 03:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1852459"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->come on, this thread is for their design decisions, not our ideas. i'd rather see the real Croach graphics, and the light ray stuff added back in (why bloom and no light rays?) and even the rest of the playable characters, before anyone even has a thought about suggesting new alien buildings or abilities that aren't even in the game design.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
true, and frankly, after thinking about it, my idea cant even work yet until they add DI...
"Let the Comm outsource some of his responsibilities! Allow him to delegate to Squads instead of individual Marines, and give Squad Leaders an extended Sayings Menu that allows them to set (overridable) waypoints for their Squad members ('Follow Me', 'Defend Target', Hold Your Ground', 'Attack!'). This persistent group/buddy system would also be good to ease new players in to the game."
I support this 100%. Making Squad officers and giving them responsibilities and some sort of command to help the commander is a far better method then just having multiple coms. I mean just losing 2-3 men on the field alone is a massive hindrance. They would have to make up for it vastly by assisting in the com chairs but as it stands, one commander is plenty and losing more men on the field creating an imbalance. With more chances of being out numbered and losing ground marines are sure to lose more games by having multiple commanders, there just isn't really anything significant they can assisting the commander, that justifies not being on the field.
<!--quoteo(post=1852479:date=Jun 13 2011, 10:21 PM:name=TheGivingTree)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheGivingTree @ Jun 13 2011, 10:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1852479"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"Let the Comm outsource some of his responsibilities! Allow him to delegate to Squads instead of individual Marines, and give Squad Leaders an extended Sayings Menu that allows them to set (overridable) waypoints for their Squad members ('Follow Me', 'Defend Target', Hold Your Ground', 'Attack!'). This persistent group/buddy system would also be good to ease new players in to the game."
I support this 100%. Making Squad officers and giving them responsibilities and some sort of command to help the commander is a far better method then just having multiple coms. I mean just losing 2-3 men on the field alone is a massive hindrance. They would have to make up for it vastly by assisting in the com chairs but as it stands, one commander is plenty and losing more men on the field creating an imbalance. With more chances of being out numbered and losing ground marines are sure to lose more games by having multiple commanders, there just isn't really anything significant they can assisting the commander, that justifies not being on the field.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Would create a far better game immersion, sounds like a good idea! What do you think UWE?
<!--quoteo(post=1852479:date=Jun 13 2011, 09:21 PM:name=TheGivingTree)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheGivingTree @ Jun 13 2011, 09:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1852479"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"Let the Comm outsource some of his responsibilities! Allow him to delegate to Squads instead of individual Marines, and give Squad Leaders an extended Sayings Menu that allows them to set (overridable) waypoints for their Squad members ('Follow Me', 'Defend Target', Hold Your Ground', 'Attack!'). This persistent group/buddy system would also be good to ease new players in to the game."
I support this 100%. Making Squad officers and giving them responsibilities and some sort of command to help the commander is a far better method then just having multiple coms. I mean just losing 2-3 men on the field alone is a massive hindrance. They would have to make up for it vastly by assisting in the com chairs but as it stands, one commander is plenty and losing more men on the field creating an imbalance. With more chances of being out numbered and losing ground marines are sure to lose more games by having multiple commanders, there just isn't really anything significant they can assisting the commander, that justifies not being on the field.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Battlefield 2 and 2142 both had similar things, where there was one overall "commander," but players could voluntarily join squads and each squad have a leader. Not only could the leader set waypoints for his squad, but there was a special voice chat channel that only the comm and squad leaders could use, allowing another layer of tactics.
While NS2 isn't big enough to need a second voice channel, I'd love the idea of allowing 1-2 marines to be designated "leaders" who can use waypoints. Let those two players be the source of improved "squad buffs" for those who actually follow. Leave all other commander tasks to the comm, though.
PlasmaJoin Date: 2003-04-26Member: 15855Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
RE: Alien commander
I'd like to see a 'pheromone' sort of tool where I could just paint on the screen and it would attract aliens towards that spot (via a big glow of yellow for eg through the walls) to signal that I think that area needs attacking.
I'd like to see a 'pheromone' sort of tool where I could just paint on the screen and it would attract aliens towards that spot (via a big glow of yellow for eg through the walls) to signal that I think that area needs attacking.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There will be, in fact I think you can see those command options in alien commander mode already but not selectable.
NolSinklerOn the ClorfJoin Date: 2004-02-15Member: 26560Members, Constellation
I really like your ideas for alien commander. I enjoy how it may in fact become a relaxing experience. Perhaps the commander's role could be to spread infestation, and research various alien techs, and perhaps the building role could go to the gorge? For example, the commander could research "crag" so that the gorge could build such things. Ahh excuse me if I'm overstepping my bounds, I'm just throwing out ideas. I was just thinking, with less reliance on the commander for actual structure placement, and more for the 'direction' that the team is going, the commander would be free then to search out and provide information about what marines are doing and the like.
<!--quoteo(post=1852503:date=Jun 14 2011, 07:06 AM:name=Deadzone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Deadzone @ Jun 14 2011, 07:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1852503"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Battlefield 2 and 2142 both had similar things, where there was one overall "commander," but players could voluntarily join squads and each squad have a leader. Not only could the leader set waypoints for his squad, but there was a special voice chat channel that only the comm and squad leaders could use, allowing another layer of tactics.
While NS2 isn't big enough to need a second voice channel, I'd love the idea of allowing 1-2 marines to be designated "leaders" who can use waypoints. Let those two players be the source of improved "squad buffs" for those who actually follow. Leave all other commander tasks to the comm, though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There shouldnt be squadleaders <b>(i would even say there shouldnt be squads at all</b>) - <u>every marine should be able to make such visual commands/mini waypoints.</u> (only visible for marines that are close to this miniwaypoint => eg. 30m radius)
I ve never felt as marine commander that i need to divide marines into squads - what i would like to have is a <u>select all marines hotkey</u> for waypoints (or maybe even<u><b> BETTER just global waypoints(multiple)</b></u>, without the need to select anyone) - so i <u>can give a main goal at the time for my whole team</u> and <u>give individual orders to ppl</u> that respawn or are somewhere else on the map.
How would this be in a real game? I set a global waypoint attack at position X - every marine heads towards X. (at least if they feel like doing what the commander wants) In the mean time Aliens attack A and B, (skulk at restower) - so i give a special waypoint to marines close to that position - if this is cleared they can go to X if im not giving another individual waypoint.
<u>Global waypoints should stay forever</u>, maybe have a<u> ui element for every active global waypoint</u>, commander view goto on left mouse, delete on right mouse button press.
This is a quick and easy way to tell your team whats going and give goals and directions - since you cant force ppl like you can in a rts with mindless ai units.
<!--quoteo(post=1852644:date=Jun 14 2011, 08:48 PM:name=Koruyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koruyo @ Jun 14 2011, 08:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1852644"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There shouldnt be squadleaders <b>(i would even say there shouldnt be squads at all</b>) - <u>every marine should be able to make such visual commands/mini waypoints.</u> (only visible for marines that are close to this miniwaypoint => eg. 30m radius)
I ve never felt as marine commander that i need to divide marines into squads - what i would like to have is a <u>select all marines hotkey</u> for waypoints (or maybe even<u><b> BETTER just global waypoints(multiple)</b></u>, without the need to select anyone) - so i <u>can give a main goal at the time for my whole team</u> and <u>give individual orders to ppl</u> that respawn or are somewhere else on the map.
How would this be in a real game? I set a global waypoint attack at position X - every marine heads towards X. (at least if they feel like doing what the commander wants) In the mean time Aliens attack A and B, (skulk at restower) - so i give a special waypoint to marines close to that position - if this is cleared they can go to X if im not giving another individual waypoint.
<u>Global waypoints should stay forever</u>, maybe have a<u> ui element for every active global waypoint</u>, commander view goto on left mouse, delete on right mouse button press.
This is a quick and easy way to tell your team whats going and give goals and directions - since you cant force ppl like you can in a rts with mindless ai units.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+111111111
Also, global waypoints could present themselve to the players as overall "objectives" in a nice little window, just like in any CoD-like fps shooter to further lessen the learning curve.
Ideally, the commander could type in little text for any such a global waypoint, such as "Put pressure on here but dont expand until XYZ is researched". In NS1, often the com would type in all this stuff in chat, but I think it would really revolutionize the non-verbal communication with the team with such global waypoints.
I think these global waypoints would fit both teams, aliens and marines.
Pheromone system sound pretty cool. My only concern at this point is that the expiration is way too fast at 10s/level (unless it's intended that levels of 5+ are normal, I was thinking maybe levels 1-3 low-medium-high would be the limit). Given that they can be dismissed at the comm's whim, I think their automatic expiration should be quote long.
<!--quoteo(post=1852634:date=Jun 14 2011, 02:58 PM:name=NolSinkler)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NolSinkler @ Jun 14 2011, 02:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1852634"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I really like your ideas for alien commander. I enjoy how it may in fact become a relaxing experience. Perhaps the commander's role could be to spread infestation, and research various alien techs, and perhaps the building role could go to the gorge? For example, the commander could research "crag" so that the gorge could build such things. Ahh excuse me if I'm overstepping my bounds, I'm just throwing out ideas. I was just thinking, with less reliance on the commander for actual structure placement, and more for the 'direction' that the team is going, the commander would be free then to search out and provide information about what marines are doing and the like.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That really sounds interessting! But it would maybe Be to complex then. Nice idea.
<!--QuoteBegin-Log+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Log)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin--><i>"How does the alien comm differ from the marine comm? Which traditionally-Gorge roles should the alien comm take on?
He’s a “gardener†- he interacts directly with the environment (not individual players) to create optimal conditions for growth. He should be “misting†areas, building “walls†and occasionally brushing off (or lancing?) intruders. He helps establish the dominance of one species over another. The weeds are marines.
He’s not telling his team what to do - he’s giving them information and providing the best conditions he can and letting them choose their location, lifeform and tactics."</i><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I greatly approve of this, this is very much what the alien comm feels like currently to me, and it's what makes it more fun than marine comm. I spend most of my time playing my own game and working around players, and I also spend a lot of time telling them where they're needed and about marine movements, rather than micromanaging them.
The strength of alien commander is telling players what you're doing and what the marines are doing, and letting them work it out for themselves, sometimes it is helpful to make specific requests, but generally you can make them see what is needed by just telling them what is happening.
I also find that alien comms work very well with players, especially gorges, if you watch what they are trying to do, and then help them. If a gorge is infesting a room and building hydras, drop some of your infestation and a crag or two. If players are attacking a marine base from a particular room or hall, infest it and drop some whips to cover their retreat and some crags to heal them up faster.
While I don't like to ignore the ground roles, alien commander is far less annoying than the commander role in other games.
I think one of the best things you could do is add some simple context commands to the mouse buttons.
If you click on infestation without a command selected, i.e if you aren't placing a building or telling a drifter where to go, it could create little clouds as you said, you could also have a button that lets the comm trigger the sounds of other aliens from that location, so you could trigger a fade blink sound or a skulk chomp sound or something behind marines if they're on the DI. Those would be your basic right/left click effects.
Then you could add a selection of powers you could trigger in the DI, for example you could have something that sends out a healing pulse or something once every twenty seconds or so. Or the ability to make the infestation become stickier and slow marines down, you would press a button to go into 'cast mode' or whatever and there could be a little scrolling selection of powers you could fire. Nothing major, just useful if used at the right moment.
Also rework how DI is placed. I think instead of selecting hives, you should have a 'DI mode' which you enter and the screen edges would go like the evolve menu to show you're in infesting mode. It would make it so that if you left click on infestation, it grows a new pustule there. Instead of using the hive energy, you have a global 'infestation energy' meter which increases its capacity and regenerates faster the more hives you have, so it's functionally similar to the current system only you don't have to keep flicking through hives to find one with energy to spare, wherever you are you just press the key or click the button on the interface and then click to grow more nodes.
Right clicking in infestation mode would cause the commander to 'manifest' on the DI where they click, essentially creating a little cloud of glowing lights which you would move around like a spectator cam (but without the noclip, obviously). You can still left click to grow pustules when like this, but as you're flying around inside the game world, you can place them on ceilings, as well as getting a ground level view of the room. The cloud woud move slowly so it would be unsuitable for scouting, right clicking again would dissipate it.
Sonds a bit like Black and White/Spores. Like charlie wrote, the Aliencom shouldn't have the possibilities to debuff Marines. And we know that UWE is thinking about "transforming" pustules maybe in Sirens or something else. Maybe we will see it in Build 180 ( build 360 is Gold ^^) that's maybe halftime.
Yeah actually it is a lot like black and white, I do like black and white's interface, very unusual yet surprisingly fun to use.
Also yeah maybe not that powerful of a spell, I couldn't think of any good ones off the top of my head, but if you can get enough ideas for powers it would be worth implementing.
Comments
- Consider changing med and ammo back to team resources (but this will give aliens waay too many team resources). I don’t like this one bit.</u>
Change it to Energy and link it to the CC!
Otherwise you've got a structure whose only reason for having an Energy pool is to cast Nano-Grid Defense. Might give rise to multiple CC strategies.
<u>When the infestation is on fire, it will do damage over time to the pustule. When the pustule is on fire, it will take additional damage. The idea here is that you can attack the infestation with the flamethrower (only) and have some effect, but you can be the most effective when you attack the pustule directly.</u>
Seems to contradict the following
<u>Flamethrower role somewhat ambiguous
It’s supposed to “crippleâ€, and attack infestation, but not sure it’s tuned for that yet.</u>
According to the former quote, the Flamethrower's unique ability to attack infestation directly (via Flaming Infestation) was designed to be LESS EFFECTIVE than every other weapon's indirect ability to attack infestation (via attacking Pustules), but according to the latter, the Flamethrower is supposed to cripple and attack infestation? Aren't these polar opposites?
Shouldn't the idea be that you can attack pustules with all weapons and have some effect against infestation, but can be the most effective when you have a Flamethrower?
If Infestation deals periodic damage to it's pustule when it's On Fire and the damage is made stackable, you've solved your problem there, haven't you? As more and more Infestation catches fire the pustule takes more and more damage each tick. Since Infestation can only catch fire from a Flamethrower, it's regained it's conditional advantage against Infestation.
<u>Viability of multiple commanders
A relatively low priority goal admittedly.</u>
Was never really sure what problem multiple commanders aimed to solve. To reduce the work for the Commander? If the <u>Four Hour Work Week</u> taught me anything, it's not to waste resources doing something yourself when you can hire someone else to do it cheaper!
Let the Comm outsource some of his responsibilities! Allow him to delegate to Squads instead of individual Marines, and give Squad Leaders an extended Sayings Menu that allows them to set (overridable) waypoints for their Squad members ('Follow Me', 'Defend Target', Hold Your Ground', 'Attack!'). This persistent group/buddy system would also be good to ease new players in to the game.
<u>- Possibly not allowing marines to sprint on infestation (nice one, Rokiyo/RevengeNZ! I’m trying this out).</u>
Make it drain Stamina quicker, but don't disable it altogether.
I like the idea of not sprinting on infestation(sticky goo), but sprinting still needs some kind of stamina(when not on infestation). Jumping could also be linked to this stamina. I know you are gonna restrict jumping later on, but if you used all your stamina on sprinting, you shouldnt be able to jump either.
I like the idea of not sprinting on infestation(sticky goo), but sprinting still needs some kind of stamina(when not on infestation). Jumping could also be linked to this stamina.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
same here, and people just call it 'infest' for short
Infestation is infestation.
Grout is - <img src="http://harrogatehouseoffers.com/images/H63568---GROUT-MARKER.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<!--coloro:#FFFF00--><span style="color:#FFFF00"><!--/coloro-->Why not give this to Marines in Squads<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> (and consider limiting it to only damage friendly Armor)? Wouldn't that provide incentive for teamwork?
You mean... *gasp* share nanites?
<i><b>MY</b></i> nanites >:(
/ontopic
I actually wouldn't mind seeing this idea tried out. It could make the difference of an extra bite, which could save countless marine lives.
Which never made any sense. It's not like a gorge can only heal a fades health, and they have to retreat to the nearest hive for the armor.
This is one of the reasons marine expansion rate is so slow. An endless supply of meds and ammo from the com isn't enough... they need to run to an armory after every engagement with the enemy. Or the alternative is your just an easy kill to feed the aliens personal res, because having 100% health and 0% armor still means instant death.
This is one of the reasons marine expansion rate is so slow. An endless supply of meds and ammo from the com isn't enough... they need to run to an armory after every engagement with the enemy. Or the alternative is your just an easy kill to feed the aliens personal res, because having 100% health and 0% armor still means instant death.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All of the units units die too quickly for my tastes, save for the Fade. I'd much prefer the more drawn out 1-on-1 combat of the Fade, wherein it doesn't just feel like the first person to get a hit in wins.
But also, Welders.
They even went so far as to steal one of the SC2 developers too! If you're gonna steal stuff you might aswell go all in and get someone who knows it all first hand ;)
These functions are kinda covered by Lerk Spore, Hive Sight/Parasite and Hydra alert state, but no harm in brainstorming.
Maybe, add a mature pustule that emits passive Umbra-like mist for added environment effect. Flashlight won't be able to pierce through this mist, and infestation doesn't catch fire when Flamethrowers come a blazin' through the mist?
That's correct, both Starcraft and NS2 are ripping off the Alien series. But you know what they say about imitation and flattery.
edit - and it's called Croach in NS2.
come on, this thread is for their design decisions, not our ideas. i'd rather see the real Croach graphics, and the light ray stuff added back in (why bloom and no light rays?) and even the rest of the playable characters, before anyone even has a thought about suggesting new alien buildings or abilities that aren't even in the game design.
true, and frankly, after thinking about it, my idea cant even work yet until they add DI...
I support this 100%. Making Squad officers and giving them responsibilities and some sort of command to help the commander is a far better method then just having multiple coms. I mean just losing 2-3 men on the field alone is a massive hindrance. They would have to make up for it vastly by assisting in the com chairs but as it stands, one commander is plenty and losing more men on the field creating an imbalance. With more chances of being out numbered and losing ground marines are sure to lose more games by having multiple commanders, there just isn't really anything significant they can assisting the commander, that justifies not being on the field.
I support this 100%. Making Squad officers and giving them responsibilities and some sort of command to help the commander is a far better method then just having multiple coms. I mean just losing 2-3 men on the field alone is a massive hindrance. They would have to make up for it vastly by assisting in the com chairs but as it stands, one commander is plenty and losing more men on the field creating an imbalance. With more chances of being out numbered and losing ground marines are sure to lose more games by having multiple commanders, there just isn't really anything significant they can assisting the commander, that justifies not being on the field.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Would create a far better game immersion, sounds like a good idea! What do you think UWE?
I support this 100%. Making Squad officers and giving them responsibilities and some sort of command to help the commander is a far better method then just having multiple coms. I mean just losing 2-3 men on the field alone is a massive hindrance. They would have to make up for it vastly by assisting in the com chairs but as it stands, one commander is plenty and losing more men on the field creating an imbalance. With more chances of being out numbered and losing ground marines are sure to lose more games by having multiple commanders, there just isn't really anything significant they can assisting the commander, that justifies not being on the field.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Battlefield 2 and 2142 both had similar things, where there was one overall "commander," but players could voluntarily join squads and each squad have a leader. Not only could the leader set waypoints for his squad, but there was a special voice chat channel that only the comm and squad leaders could use, allowing another layer of tactics.
While NS2 isn't big enough to need a second voice channel, I'd love the idea of allowing 1-2 marines to be designated "leaders" who can use waypoints. Let those two players be the source of improved "squad buffs" for those who actually follow. Leave all other commander tasks to the comm, though.
I'd like to see a 'pheromone' sort of tool where I could just paint on the screen and it would attract aliens towards that spot (via a big glow of yellow for eg through the walls) to signal that I think that area needs attacking.
I'd like to see a 'pheromone' sort of tool where I could just paint on the screen and it would attract aliens towards that spot (via a big glow of yellow for eg through the walls) to signal that I think that area needs attacking.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There will be, in fact I think you can see those command options in alien commander mode already but not selectable.
While NS2 isn't big enough to need a second voice channel, I'd love the idea of allowing 1-2 marines to be designated "leaders" who can use waypoints. Let those two players be the source of improved "squad buffs" for those who actually follow. Leave all other commander tasks to the comm, though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There shouldnt be squadleaders <b>(i would even say there shouldnt be squads at all</b>) - <u>every marine should be able to make such visual commands/mini waypoints.</u> (only visible for marines that are close to this miniwaypoint => eg. 30m radius)
I ve never felt as marine commander that i need to divide marines into squads - what i would like to have is a <u>select all marines hotkey</u> for waypoints (or maybe even<u><b> BETTER just global waypoints(multiple)</b></u>, without the need to select anyone) - so i <u>can give a main goal at the time for my whole team</u> and <u>give individual orders to ppl</u> that respawn or are somewhere else on the map.
How would this be in a real game? I set a global waypoint attack at position X - every marine heads towards X. (at least if they feel like doing what the commander wants)
In the mean time Aliens attack A and B, (skulk at restower) - so i give a special waypoint to marines close to that position - if this is cleared they can go to X if im not giving another individual waypoint.
<u>Global waypoints should stay forever</u>, maybe have a<u> ui element for every active global waypoint</u>, commander view goto on left mouse, delete on right mouse button press.
This is a quick and easy way to tell your team whats going and give goals and directions - since you cant force ppl like you can in a rts with mindless ai units.
I ve never felt as marine commander that i need to divide marines into squads - what i would like to have is a <u>select all marines hotkey</u> for waypoints (or maybe even<u><b> BETTER just global waypoints(multiple)</b></u>, without the need to select anyone) - so i <u>can give a main goal at the time for my whole team</u> and <u>give individual orders to ppl</u> that respawn or are somewhere else on the map.
How would this be in a real game? I set a global waypoint attack at position X - every marine heads towards X. (at least if they feel like doing what the commander wants)
In the mean time Aliens attack A and B, (skulk at restower) - so i give a special waypoint to marines close to that position - if this is cleared they can go to X if im not giving another individual waypoint.
<u>Global waypoints should stay forever</u>, maybe have a<u> ui element for every active global waypoint</u>, commander view goto on left mouse, delete on right mouse button press.
This is a quick and easy way to tell your team whats going and give goals and directions - since you cant force ppl like you can in a rts with mindless ai units.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+111111111
Also, global waypoints could present themselve to the players as overall "objectives" in a nice little window, just like in any CoD-like fps shooter to further lessen the learning curve.
Ideally, the commander could type in little text for any such a global waypoint, such as "Put pressure on here but dont expand until XYZ is researched". In NS1, often the com would type in all this stuff in chat, but I think it would really revolutionize the non-verbal communication with the team with such global waypoints.
I think these global waypoints would fit both teams, aliens and marines.
Could it be automated as well? Imagine infestation just occurring based on the common travel paths taken by aliens.
This would mean over time the most common routes/places aliens have been walking slowly starts to infest.
Commanders/gorges could extend it in other directions as they already do; but it would be neat to have it done automatically?
That really sounds interessting!
But it would maybe Be to complex then. Nice idea.
He’s a “gardener†- he interacts directly with the environment (not individual players) to create optimal conditions for growth. He should be “misting†areas, building “walls†and occasionally brushing off (or lancing?) intruders. He helps establish the dominance of one species over another. The weeds are marines.
He’s not telling his team what to do - he’s giving them information and providing the best conditions he can and letting them choose their location, lifeform and tactics."</i><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I greatly approve of this, this is very much what the alien comm feels like currently to me, and it's what makes it more fun than marine comm. I spend most of my time playing my own game and working around players, and I also spend a lot of time telling them where they're needed and about marine movements, rather than micromanaging them.
The strength of alien commander is telling players what you're doing and what the marines are doing, and letting them work it out for themselves, sometimes it is helpful to make specific requests, but generally you can make them see what is needed by just telling them what is happening.
I also find that alien comms work very well with players, especially gorges, if you watch what they are trying to do, and then help them. If a gorge is infesting a room and building hydras, drop some of your infestation and a crag or two. If players are attacking a marine base from a particular room or hall, infest it and drop some whips to cover their retreat and some crags to heal them up faster.
While I don't like to ignore the ground roles, alien commander is far less annoying than the commander role in other games.
I think one of the best things you could do is add some simple context commands to the mouse buttons.
If you click on infestation without a command selected, i.e if you aren't placing a building or telling a drifter where to go, it could create little clouds as you said, you could also have a button that lets the comm trigger the sounds of other aliens from that location, so you could trigger a fade blink sound or a skulk chomp sound or something behind marines if they're on the DI. Those would be your basic right/left click effects.
Then you could add a selection of powers you could trigger in the DI, for example you could have something that sends out a healing pulse or something once every twenty seconds or so. Or the ability to make the infestation become stickier and slow marines down, you would press a button to go into 'cast mode' or whatever and there could be a little scrolling selection of powers you could fire. Nothing major, just useful if used at the right moment.
Also rework how DI is placed. I think instead of selecting hives, you should have a 'DI mode' which you enter and the screen edges would go like the evolve menu to show you're in infesting mode. It would make it so that if you left click on infestation, it grows a new pustule there. Instead of using the hive energy, you have a global 'infestation energy' meter which increases its capacity and regenerates faster the more hives you have, so it's functionally similar to the current system only you don't have to keep flicking through hives to find one with energy to spare, wherever you are you just press the key or click the button on the interface and then click to grow more nodes.
Right clicking in infestation mode would cause the commander to 'manifest' on the DI where they click, essentially creating a little cloud of glowing lights which you would move around like a spectator cam (but without the noclip, obviously). You can still left click to grow pustules when like this, but as you're flying around inside the game world, you can place them on ceilings, as well as getting a ground level view of the room. The cloud woud move slowly so it would be unsuitable for scouting, right clicking again would dissipate it.
Sonds a bit like Black and White/Spores.
Like charlie wrote, the Aliencom shouldn't have the possibilities to debuff Marines.
And we know that UWE is thinking about "transforming" pustules maybe in Sirens or something else.
Maybe we will see it in Build 180 ( build 360 is Gold ^^) that's maybe halftime.
Also yeah maybe not that powerful of a spell, I couldn't think of any good ones off the top of my head, but if you can get enough ideas for powers it would be worth implementing.