<!--quoteo(post=1893673:date=Jan 12 2012, 01:44 AM:name=Kalabalana)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kalabalana @ Jan 12 2012, 01:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1893673"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actually, I don't care anymore. Let them have it. I really don't think the majority of the PTs deserve it at all, considering the direction of the game, but at this point; what does it matter?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Regardless of your opinions about the gameplay direction, the PTs are putting in a lot of hard work and long hours tracking down and logging bugs for us. It can be a pretty grueling process, and they have been essential to getting playable patches out to you guys. So, yeah, they deserve some love.
<!--quoteo(post=1893690:date=Jan 11 2012, 09:08 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Jan 11 2012, 09:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1893690"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Regardless of your opinions about the gameplay direction, the PTs are putting in a lot of hard work and long hours tracking down and logging bugs for us. It can be a pretty grueling process, and they have been essential to getting playable patches out to you guys. So, yeah, they deserve some love.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> If you're giving away the black armor, just give it to everyone. Picking favorites is a fickle game, you're bound to reward those that don't deserve it, and ignore others that do.
Just let everyone have it. It loses it's meaning in this manner. It's also rude to those of us who paid for it.
<!--quoteo(post=1893691:date=Jan 11 2012, 06:10 PM:name=Kalabalana)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kalabalana @ Jan 11 2012, 06:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1893691"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you're giving away the black armor, just give it to everyone. Picking favorites is a fickle game, you're bound to reward those that don't deserve, and ignore others that do.
Just let everyone have it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your logic makes absolutely no sense. As long as you're aware of that fact.
<!--quoteo(post=1893694:date=Jan 11 2012, 09:13 PM:name=naevorc)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (naevorc @ Jan 11 2012, 09:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1893694"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Your logic makes absolutely no sense. As long as you're aware of that fact.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You don't think anyone has vicariously done a ###### ton of bug finding/testing vicariously through pts? My logic only makes sense when you see enough of the picture.
Also, as per the buying agreement for those that bought the black armor, they are the only people who can have the black armor. Is that logic above your head as well?
Well, a little something for everyone who bought Natural Selection 2 before the official release would be nice. I would have bought a Special Edition, but only regular was still avaiable.
(Mh, a kind of "Veteran" Marine armor skin would be nice. Where the armor looks like it has been used for some time, phrases written on it, etc. Maybe the Marines themselves with some scars in the face. Hehe. Just thinking. - Possibly unlockable after a certain amount of NS2-playtime ;) )
if you want to reward playtesters name the official NS2 bots after the players, its simple and very rewarding actually.
as for black armor, why give it to them? everyone who bought it early on bought under the agreement it would be one time deal, and small reward for buying the game early on. Kalabalana has point, and i agree with him.
point is, different reward could of been giving to them as a thanks for their hard work. Like my idea, naming the official NS2 bots after the playtesters.
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
Well it isn't that the special all black marine armor was exclusive to people who payed for the special edition. As it says 'includes' instead of 'exclusive'.
If it was exclusive all black marine armor then there would be truth to the problem.
Besides I always imagined them giving it away to excellent mappers or influential modders who may not have it already. And the playtesters generally tested and reported more bugs than people who have played since the engine test. Although it's a bit sad now as I feel I'm missing a good portion of the testing experience by not being part of it.
<!--quoteo(post=1893699:date=Jan 11 2012, 06:16 PM:name=Kalabalana)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kalabalana @ Jan 11 2012, 06:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1893699"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You don't think anyone has vicariously done a ###### ton of bug finding/testing vicariously through pts? My logic only makes sense when you see enough of the picture.
Also, as per the buying agreement for those that bought the black armor, they are the only people who can have the black armor. Is that logic above your head as well?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Considering that in many game development companies, playtesters are compensated in actual money, I think, yes, it may be fair. I understand your frustration but really now. I find bugs vicariously and so do thousands of other people in other games such as TF2, etc, and people will always do that in any game they play and can report bugs actively with a report, or via an automatic bug reporter. The bottom line is the PTs put in <b>a lot of their own time and effort for this exclusive purpose</b>; it's not vicarious, but rather active.
I'm finished arguing this point. If I'm still wrong, so be it.
It is rare that I agree with luns, but I agree that playtesters' contributions should be rewarded in a manner other than in giving black marine armour, such as, as luns suggested, naming the bots after them.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
<!--quoteo(post=1893700:date=Jan 11 2012, 06:17 PM:name=Wolpertinger)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wolpertinger @ Jan 11 2012, 06:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1893700"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well, a little something for everyone who bought Natural Selection 2 before the official release would be nice.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
what do you think being able to play the alpha, beta, all versions in between and have an input in what goes into your game is? just luck? thats your "little" something. which is well worth it to me, personally. not including the incredible developer involvement with the community, the communication is unparalleled. enjoy an experience that others haven't bought yet, and will miss out on.
plus, who knows, maybe when it goes public it will be more than the special edition price i bought it for - what was that, $35? is UWE still planning this price for steam release?
on a thread related note: "Icons above players heads" please allow this to be an option in the menu, i dislike things like this that break immersion. yea i know there's already a HUD and it can mythologically be explained but its just jarring to see this sort of stuff when i play nuclear dawn. i find myself staring at the icon more than the model itself.
<!--quoteo(post=1893691:date=Jan 11 2012, 07:10 PM:name=Kalabalana)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kalabalana @ Jan 11 2012, 07:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1893691"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you're giving away the black armor, just give it to everyone. Picking favorites is a fickle game, you're bound to reward those that don't deserve it, and ignore others that do.
Just let everyone have it. It loses it's meaning in this manner. It's also rude to those of us who paid for it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I granted black armor keys to two play testers who have made significant contributions to the game (thus I have bestowed upon them our "eternal gratitude"). I'm not really sure why anyone considers this a big deal or thinks it devalues their own pre-order.
<!--quoteo(post=1893699:date=Jan 11 2012, 09:16 PM:name=Kalabalana)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kalabalana @ Jan 11 2012, 09:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1893699"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, as per the buying agreement for those that bought the black armor, they are the only people who can have the black armor. Is that logic above your head as well?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sir Kalabalana, your fight to ensure proper administration of the black armor pre-order bonus award is nothing short of heroic. Don't let anyone tell you it's illogical, irrelevant, or in some other way a waste of time. I think it's best for you to put all other major issues you currently have going on in your life on hold, like being kind-of-low on milk, and focus your efforts into this righteous cause.
<!--quoteo(post=1893713:date=Jan 12 2012, 10:38 AM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Jan 12 2012, 10:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1893713"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->what do you think being able to play the alpha, beta, all versions in between and have an input in what goes into your game is? just luck? thats your "little" something. which is well worth it to me, personally. not including the incredible developer involvement with the community, the communication is unparalleled. enjoy an experience that others haven't bought yet, and will miss out on.
plus, who knows, maybe when it goes public it will be more than the special edition price i bought it for - what was that, $35? is UWE still planning this price for steam release?
on a thread related note: "Icons above players heads" please allow this to be an option in the menu, i dislike things like this that break immersion. yea i know there's already a HUD and it can mythologically be explained but its just jarring to see this sort of stuff when i play nuclear dawn. i find myself staring at the icon more than the model itself.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sure, but what about people who bought the standard edition (at the current price), still can't even play the game as it currently is, but haven't refunded, because they are optimistic and wish to continue supporting UWE and the game's development? You might say "then it's just a pre-order", but we know that they opened up pre-orders precisely to pay for the game's development.
Just playing devil's advocate here, I actually have the special edition (and regretfully convinced 4 of my friends to get it as well - none of them have been able to play it, and have probably forgotten about it).
The special edition price was $40, the standard edition at the time was $20 and is now $35, which I'd bet is going to be the release price. So, in a way, people who bought the standard edition earlier got a $15 discount, and people who bought the special edition got black armour for $5 (or $20, depending on how you look at it).
I agree with the thinking that playtesters should be rewarded in a different way - it doesn't have to be of less value (how do you quantify value, really?) than the black armour, it could even be of more "value" - it'd just be nice if it were different. Hell, playtesters who bought the special edition would be doubly rewarded.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1893717:date=Jan 12 2012, 03:46 AM:name=Max)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Max @ Jan 12 2012, 03:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1893717"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I granted black armor keys to two play testers who have made significant contributions to the game (thus I have bestowed upon them our "eternal gratitude"). I'm not really sure why anyone considers this a big deal or thinks it devalues their own pre-order.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It is a trifle, one that I certainly don't care enough to make any fuss about. All the same you have to recognize that it is a breach of contract with the special edition buyers.
<!--quoteo(post=1893758:date=Jan 12 2012, 06:18 AM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Jan 12 2012, 06:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1893758"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It is a trifle, one that I certainly don't care enough to make any fuss about. All the same you have to recognize that it is a breach of contract with the special edition buyers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To be fair, it was never stated that Black Armor would be Special Edition only, just that Special Edition was a way to get you it.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
I kind of assumed it was, but if it was never stated then I guess everyone can safely ignore my post. Doesn't matter to me anyway, I didn't buy SE because I wanted black armor.
<!--quoteo(post=1893673:date=Jan 11 2012, 08:44 PM:name=Kalabalana)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kalabalana @ Jan 11 2012, 08:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1893673"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actually, I don't care anymore. Let them have it. I really don't think the majority of the PTs deserve it at all, considering the direction of the game, but at this point; what does it matter?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm afraid I have to step in here. Not all PTs have black armour (though most do, because they paid for it).
As a group, we log a total of around 200 hours <b><i>a week</b></i> playtesting for 'official' Playtests. We often have PlayTesters who do their own testing in their own time. Not to mention all the in-house discussion about gameplay, LUA fixes and other things the group comes up with to help UWE.
There is a lot to do, and all of us do this with our free time. We do not get paid. I do a full day job and then playtest as soon as I get home for 2-4 hours. And you think some of our most hard-wroking PTs don't deserve something as simple as black armour for those who do not have it?
The PT teams are very dedicated and I'm proud of them and the work they do.
I spend seven days a week playtesting, and up to 12 hours a day doing it. This is what I do for a living (and I don't get paid). A vast majority of our playtesters spend that same time with me on a beautiful Sunday afternoon for six hours trying to figure out why the server just crashed and why the logs are empty (again).
I'm going to find a way to give some kind of insight and third-person perspective for you guys on how our playtests work. I think what is more sad to me than anything in the world is that people are so concerned about things that don't matter, and more importantly, tapping into someone else's business. It's none of anyone's business or right to ask UWE for justification of their actions, period. And what's more... what other game company would you ever say something like this to, and actually get a decent response. Good luck with that. I think everyone is entitled to their opinions, and I respect you 100% for that! However, I also feel like you're pissing in someone else's pie.
AsranielJoin Date: 2002-06-03Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
And to put it into perspective, we are not talking about 100 people getting black armor now. there are perhaps 3-5 that don't have one anyway. Most playtesters bought a special edition of ns2, many even bought multiple copies of the game to support development (i have 5 of them).
At least I very much understood the black armor was striclty special edition only.
Mostly it boils down to this:
<!--quoteo(post=1893758:date=Jan 12 2012, 05:18 AM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Jan 12 2012, 05:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1893758"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It is a trifle, one that I certainly don't care enough to make any fuss about. All the same you have to recognize that it is a breach of contract with the special edition buyers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> There's already kind of questionable stuff on release date, sys reqs, beta status and all that. I'd really to see UWE to stop pushing the limits of that any further, even if it's just a little irrelevant bonus thingy. In some sense maybe even more now that it's completely irrelevant bonus that has nothing to do with the UWE funding or anything.
This is the dumbest argument ever. If you're seriously that concerned about a few internal testers getting a virtual item you might need to seriously evaluate your life.
<!--quoteo(post=1893791:date=Jan 12 2012, 11:08 AM:name=Supernorn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Supernorn @ Jan 12 2012, 11:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1893791"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is the dumbest argument ever. If you're seriously that concerned about a few internal testers getting a virtual item you might need to seriously evaluate your life.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeh, I know it's really bad nitpicking and whining in many ways, but at the same time I find it really important that whenever there's money involved, the contract is respected. After that it can be all fun and friendship. I guess it's more of a self-defence reaction for me as I'm not usually very good at holding my ground on these.
Does no one realize I have tons of insider information completely surrounding the pt process? And that my issue isn't directly relating to giving out the black armor?
Anyways, ironically, I don't think anyone is particularly wrong in this thread, but to be fair, no one is right either.
Thanks for the implications that I have no life, that the pts are actually putting in hundreds of hours a week, 12 hours a day, etc, (which is bs, because I know, and secondly I know the quality of the pt work)
But as naevorc put it, "I'm finished arguing this point. If I'm still wrong, so be it.", and he's completely right, and I'd like to take a page from his book and just drop the subject.
<!--quoteo(post=1893791:date=Jan 12 2012, 12:08 PM:name=Supernorn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Supernorn @ Jan 12 2012, 12:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1893791"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is the dumbest argument ever. If you're seriously that concerned about a few internal testers getting a virtual item you might need to seriously evaluate your life.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1893782:date=Jan 12 2012, 07:58 AM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Jan 12 2012, 07:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1893782"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->At least I very much understood the black armor was striclty special edition only.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> We are sorry if this has caused some kind of confusion, but there was never any official statement on our part that said special edition was the only way, ever, that black armor would be given out. The NS2 website where you pre order imply states that for buying the special edition you get "special all black marine armor whenever you play online". Nothing ever stated that it was exclusive to the special edition, merely that it was just part of that deal. Its like when companies give out the game soundtrack or an art book as part of buying the special edition of their game, but yet you can still go and buy the soundtrack on Itunes.
We have always reserved the right to give out black armor as we saw fit. Possibly as a reward for help on the development of the game, maybe as part of some contest, etc. We appreciate very much those who supported us early on by buying the special edition, but we certainly never intended for black armor to be something that people use to divide the community into those who are worthy of having it and those who aren't.
<!--quoteo(post=1893889:date=Jan 12 2012, 01:36 PM:name=Kalabalana)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kalabalana @ Jan 12 2012, 01:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1893889"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Does no one realize I have tons of insider information completely surrounding the pt process? And that my issue isn't directly relating to giving out the black armor?
Anyways, ironically, I don't think anyone is particularly wrong in this thread, but to be fair, no one is right either.
Thanks for the implications that I have no life, that the pts are actually putting in hundreds of hours a week, 12 hours a day, etc, (which is bs, because I know, and secondly I know the quality of the pt work)
But as naevorc put it, "I'm finished arguing this point. If I'm still wrong, so be it.", and he's completely right, and I'd like to take a page from his book and just drop the subject.
Sorry to have caused this flame war.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you have 'insider' info, then they are clearly mis-informing you. We hold Playtests every day, easily adding up to 100s of hours. Clearly your informant is not very informative.
Seeing as you are a Vet, I would have expected better behaviour. Oh well.
<!--quoteo(post=1893934:date=Jan 12 2012, 08:39 PM:name=Obraxis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Obraxis @ Jan 12 2012, 08:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1893934"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Seeing as you are a Vet, I would have expected better behaviour. Oh well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Honestly? Vet-icons were rediculously easy to obtain back in the day, and are a symbol of ###### all really.
Comments
Regardless of your opinions about the gameplay direction, the PTs are putting in a lot of hard work and long hours tracking down and logging bugs for us. It can be a pretty grueling process, and they have been essential to getting playable patches out to you guys. So, yeah, they deserve some love.
--Cory
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you're giving away the black armor, just give it to everyone. Picking favorites is a fickle game, you're bound to reward those that don't deserve it, and ignore others that do.
Just let everyone have it. It loses it's meaning in this manner. It's also rude to those of us who paid for it.
Just let everyone have it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your logic makes absolutely no sense. As long as you're aware of that fact.
You don't think anyone has vicariously done a ###### ton of bug finding/testing vicariously through pts? My logic only makes sense when you see enough of the picture.
Also, as per the buying agreement for those that bought the black armor, they are the only people who can have the black armor. Is that logic above your head as well?
I would have bought a Special Edition, but only regular was still avaiable.
(Mh, a kind of "Veteran" Marine armor skin would be nice. Where the armor looks like it has been used for some time, phrases written on it, etc. Maybe the Marines themselves with some scars in the face. Hehe. Just thinking. - Possibly unlockable after a certain amount of NS2-playtime ;) )
as for black armor, why give it to them? everyone who bought it early on bought under the agreement it would be one time deal, and small reward for buying the game early on. Kalabalana has point, and i agree with him.
point is, different reward could of been giving to them as a thanks for their hard work. Like my idea, naming the official NS2 bots after the playtesters.
If it was exclusive all black marine armor then there would be truth to the problem.
Besides I always imagined them giving it away to excellent mappers or influential modders who may not have it already. And the playtesters generally tested and reported more bugs than people who have played since the engine test. Although it's a bit sad now as I feel I'm missing a good portion of the testing experience by not being part of it.
Also, as per the buying agreement for those that bought the black armor, they are the only people who can have the black armor. Is that logic above your head as well?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Considering that in many game development companies, playtesters are compensated in actual money, I think, yes, it may be fair. I understand your frustration but really now. I find bugs vicariously and so do thousands of other people in other games such as TF2, etc, and people will always do that in any game they play and can report bugs actively with a report, or via an automatic bug reporter. The bottom line is the PTs put in <b>a lot of their own time and effort for this exclusive purpose</b>; it's not vicarious, but rather active.
I'm finished arguing this point. If I'm still wrong, so be it.
what do you think being able to play the alpha, beta, all versions in between and have an input in what goes into your game is? just luck? thats your "little" something. which is well worth it to me, personally. not including the incredible developer involvement with the community, the communication is unparalleled.
enjoy an experience that others haven't bought yet, and will miss out on.
plus, who knows, maybe when it goes public it will be more than the special edition price i bought it for - what was that, $35? is UWE still planning this price for steam release?
on a thread related note:
"Icons above players heads"
please allow this to be an option in the menu, i dislike things like this that break immersion. yea i know there's already a HUD and it can mythologically be explained but its just jarring to see this sort of stuff when i play nuclear dawn. i find myself staring at the icon more than the model itself.
Just let everyone have it. It loses it's meaning in this manner. It's also rude to those of us who paid for it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I granted black armor keys to two play testers who have made significant contributions to the game (thus I have bestowed upon them our "eternal gratitude"). I'm not really sure why anyone considers this a big deal or thinks it devalues their own pre-order.
Sir Kalabalana, your fight to ensure proper administration of the black armor pre-order bonus award is nothing short of heroic. Don't let anyone tell you it's illogical, irrelevant, or in some other way a waste of time. I think it's best for you to put all other major issues you currently have going on in your life on hold, like being kind-of-low on milk, and focus your efforts into this righteous cause.
enjoy an experience that others haven't bought yet, and will miss out on.
plus, who knows, maybe when it goes public it will be more than the special edition price i bought it for - what was that, $35? is UWE still planning this price for steam release?
on a thread related note:
"Icons above players heads"
please allow this to be an option in the menu, i dislike things like this that break immersion. yea i know there's already a HUD and it can mythologically be explained but its just jarring to see this sort of stuff when i play nuclear dawn. i find myself staring at the icon more than the model itself.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure, but what about people who bought the standard edition (at the current price), still can't even play the game as it currently is, but haven't refunded, because they are optimistic and wish to continue supporting UWE and the game's development? You might say "then it's just a pre-order", but we know that they opened up pre-orders precisely to pay for the game's development.
Just playing devil's advocate here, I actually have the special edition (and regretfully convinced 4 of my friends to get it as well - none of them have been able to play it, and have probably forgotten about it).
The special edition price was $40, the standard edition at the time was $20 and is now $35, which I'd bet is going to be the release price. So, in a way, people who bought the standard edition earlier got a $15 discount, and people who bought the special edition got black armour for $5 (or $20, depending on how you look at it).
I agree with the thinking that playtesters should be rewarded in a different way - it doesn't have to be of less value (how do you quantify value, really?) than the black armour, it could even be of more "value" - it'd just be nice if it were different. Hell, playtesters who bought the special edition would be doubly rewarded.
It is a trifle, one that I certainly don't care enough to make any fuss about. All the same you have to recognize that it is a breach of contract with the special edition buyers.
To be fair, it was never stated that Black Armor would be Special Edition only, just that Special Edition was a way to get you it.
I'm afraid I have to step in here. Not all PTs have black armour (though most do, because they paid for it).
As a group, we log a total of around 200 hours <b><i>a week</b></i> playtesting for 'official' Playtests. We often have PlayTesters who do their own testing in their own time. Not to mention all the in-house discussion about gameplay, LUA fixes and other things the group comes up with to help UWE.
There is a lot to do, and all of us do this with our free time. We do not get paid. I do a full day job and then playtest as soon as I get home for 2-4 hours. And you think some of our most hard-wroking PTs don't deserve something as simple as black armour for those who do not have it?
The PT teams are very dedicated and I'm proud of them and the work they do.
I'm going to find a way to give some kind of insight and third-person perspective for you guys on how our playtests work. I think what is more sad to me than anything in the world is that people are so concerned about things that don't matter, and more importantly, tapping into someone else's business. It's none of anyone's business or right to ask UWE for justification of their actions, period. And what's more... what other game company would you ever say something like this to, and actually get a decent response. Good luck with that. I think everyone is entitled to their opinions, and I respect you 100% for that! However, I also feel like you're pissing in someone else's pie.
Mostly it boils down to this:
<!--quoteo(post=1893758:date=Jan 12 2012, 05:18 AM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Jan 12 2012, 05:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1893758"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It is a trifle, one that I certainly don't care enough to make any fuss about. All the same you have to recognize that it is a breach of contract with the special edition buyers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's already kind of questionable stuff on release date, sys reqs, beta status and all that. I'd really to see UWE to stop pushing the limits of that any further, even if it's just a little irrelevant bonus thingy. In some sense maybe even more now that it's completely irrelevant bonus that has nothing to do with the UWE funding or anything.
Yeh, I know it's really bad nitpicking and whining in many ways, but at the same time I find it really important that whenever there's money involved, the contract is respected. After that it can be all fun and friendship. I guess it's more of a self-defence reaction for me as I'm not usually very good at holding my ground on these.
Anyways, ironically, I don't think anyone is particularly wrong in this thread, but to be fair, no one is right either.
Thanks for the implications that I have no life, that the pts are actually putting in hundreds of hours a week, 12 hours a day, etc, (which is bs, because I know, and secondly I know the quality of the pt work)
But as naevorc put it, "I'm finished arguing this point. If I'm still wrong, so be it.", and he's completely right, and I'd like to take a page from his book and just drop the subject.
Sorry to have caused this flame war.
Great retort. Oi, mate, go sort your life out!
We are sorry if this has caused some kind of confusion, but there was never any official statement on our part that said special edition was the only way, ever, that black armor would be given out. The NS2 website where you pre order imply states that for buying the special edition you get "special all black marine armor whenever you play online". Nothing ever stated that it was exclusive to the special edition, merely that it was just part of that deal. Its like when companies give out the game soundtrack or an art book as part of buying the special edition of their game, but yet you can still go and buy the soundtrack on Itunes.
We have always reserved the right to give out black armor as we saw fit. Possibly as a reward for help on the development of the game, maybe as part of some contest, etc. We appreciate very much those who supported us early on by buying the special edition, but we certainly never intended for black armor to be something that people use to divide the community into those who are worthy of having it and those who aren't.
I really hope we can end this here and move on.
--Cory
Anyways, ironically, I don't think anyone is particularly wrong in this thread, but to be fair, no one is right either.
Thanks for the implications that I have no life, that the pts are actually putting in hundreds of hours a week, 12 hours a day, etc, (which is bs, because I know, and secondly I know the quality of the pt work)
But as naevorc put it, "I'm finished arguing this point. If I'm still wrong, so be it.", and he's completely right, and I'd like to take a page from his book and just drop the subject.
Sorry to have caused this flame war.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you have 'insider' info, then they are clearly mis-informing you. We hold Playtests every day, easily adding up to 100s of hours. Clearly your informant is not very informative.
Seeing as you are a Vet, I would have expected better behaviour. Oh well.
Honestly? Vet-icons were rediculously easy to obtain back in the day, and are a symbol of ###### all really.