so i know the whole trick behind calling the onos release "gorilla" (so you can release it whenever you want without having any time attachments), but right now i keep seeing more things added for the next patch... if the onos is done by now (which I don't know why it wouldn't be, it was held back from release like 2 weeks ago), why not release that "gorilla" patch and add that other stuff as another patch? not to sound too annoyed, i just dont get it. the onos was in the trailer and ######.. yet hasn't been in the alpha or beta for like... 2 years now? year and a half?
side note: is there any screen shots of any type of real exo? or has the model and textures not even been created yet? and maybe it'd tie people over with a video of the (broken or not) jetpack... just my 2cents.
<!--quoteo(post=1897707:date=Jan 27 2012, 07:52 PM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Jan 27 2012, 07:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1897707"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Personally, I think you're just wasting keypresses luns. Why not just say "why not remake NS1?"?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I guess this is a remark about his general attitude, but you'd be hard pressed to deny that MACs constitute poor innovation on UWE's part, and I wouldn't be surprised (or sorry) to see them go at some point.
The speed with which lerks can take down a CC is a problem. The number of spikes a lerk can fire isn't. Jacking up the energy consumption for spiking is not something I really want to see happen.
<!--quoteo(post=1897647:date=Jan 27 2012, 08:38 AM:name=twiliteblue)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (twiliteblue @ Jan 27 2012, 08:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1897647"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The problem described is due to the non-scaling health of structures against player damage. For example, in the future, 12 v 12 games will have up to 12 Lerks, whose damage could theoretically take down a CS in 3 seconds.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You're right, and this reminds me of yet another reason why the Personal Res scaling system is flawed. With more players, you also get more weapons/lifeforms, which magnifies the problems with structure health scalability. <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The maximum damage "machinegun" Spikes deal need to be reduced (right now it's 300 DPS against unarmored targets!)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The in-game spike dps is actually around 200, despite what balance.lua says. Rushing the CC is effective as any alien class. But I agree that tweaking health and armor values won't amount to much.
<!--quoteo(post=1897720:date=Jan 28 2012, 04:36 AM:name=player)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (player @ Jan 28 2012, 04:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1897720"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I guess this is a remark about his general attitude,<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, every single post.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This weekend Cory went to the beach. He took a picture of something creepy. Is this a new alien structure? Eech. <a href="http://t.co/4JFzH4PY" target="_blank">http://t.co/4JFzH4PY</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> What a relief! For the Bay Area, I was expecting a nude beach pic...
<!--quoteo(post=1897819:date=Jan 27 2012, 11:30 PM:name=Shrike3O)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shrike3O @ Jan 27 2012, 11:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1897819"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The speed with which lerks can take down a CC is a problem. The number of spikes a lerk can fire isn't. Jacking up the energy consumption for spiking is not something I really want to see happen.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
for one thing, it will make them absolutely horrible in combat
combat is more important than silly frustrating CC rushes once players learn to shoot lerks with their guns
Detonates upon impact with a marine or structure. When a marine is hit, the maggots unravel and start gnawing away at his armor, when his armor is breached the maggots then proceed to eat the marine from the inside out and then gain control of his central nervous system ,allowing the Kharaa to take control of the marine's body, and return fire on his fellow teammates until he is killed.
When a structure is hit, the worms rapidly dig their way into the structure's primary motherboard, and create numerous calculation errors causing sentry turrets to open fire on marines, marine res towers to send res to the Kharaa team, and causes turret factories to produce MACs and ARCs that open fire on marine structures.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited January 2012
It's the mini hydra. Alien comm now places hydra's, and the gorge places mini hydra's, ala cysts and mini cysts.
Mini Hydra's have many more heads and work more like a minigun. The have a much higher and sustained rate of fire, but they have less range, do less damage per shot, and their accuracy is crap. Kind of spray and pray when a target is in the area, more a hindrance than serious danger. Also only costs the gorge 3 res to place :)
LOL,
Seriously though, that is a creepy photo, but it does make you realise, there's nothing truly alien about the Kharaa, it's just terrestrial diversity. :)
I don't know how i feel about this. As a commander i like to give specific orders to specific individuals. I hardly use the waypoint system as it is, as i prefer to use voice to communicate my directions. I find that marines follow voice orders better than the generic "go to way point solder."
If i could create squads (kind of like in BF3 but commander chooses who is in which squad) and then the marines could push a button to bring up squad info such as where they (squad members) are, whether they are alive or dead what gun they are using(so you can form powerful squads). That way say if you are alone in Flight control you would know when your back up will arrive.
What i would like would a be a list (also push a button to bring it up so its not obscuring to much of your view) of all the players on my team and where they are. I could then select who i want in which squad and which squad i want to go where. Hell if i could even give the waypoints specific meanings that would be awesome! ie "Mcglaspie, wasabione, scardybob defend datacore" and have that message present on their HUD until i disband/change it.
I'm skeptical that an advanced waypointing system like that will ever really be used. Skilled commanders who plan things out to that extent usually have a mic and use it instead. And pub marines don't generally pay enough attention to waypoints to bother with something so involved anyway.
Also, marines should not be able to opt out of the distress beacon IMO. That's part of the drawback - in exchange for an emergency base defense, you lose your non-phase-gated footholds on the map. Sometimes in NS1 aliens could save their hive from a rush by forcing a distress beacon, whereas with this change one marine could stay behind to build a phase gate while the rest save the base.
I agree with Zek about not opting out of beacons. That's their drawback!
But I think the new WP system is brilliant. It gets buy-in from players about the waypoints which I think makes them much more likely to be used. However the new WP system will need to work with what ever the squad system turns out to be. Other wise you'd have two systems that are oriented towards the same goal: team work, which could be fighting each other.
Really I think the WP system could be used to form ephemeral squads. Everyone who accepted a WP is part of a squad until they die or accept another WP. And of course there needs to be some advantage to being in a squad, and like i said, I think that should be seeing your squad mates through the walls L4D style.
Also maybe having WP's give out money to the ppl who accept them could be cool. Maybe the commander could offer up some of his personal res, or even team res, to people who complete the WP.
Also agree about not being able to opt out of beacon. I use beacon all the time to regroup my team. If people could opt out of it i would very frustrated.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->However the new WP system will need to work with what ever the squad system turns out to be. Other wise you'd have two systems that are oriented towards the same goal: team work, which could be fighting each other.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes i agree, by having the commander choose squads and what they do would avoid this. Like i posted:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What i would like would a be a list (also push a button to bring it up so its not obscuring to much of your view) of all the players on my team and where they are. I could then select who i want in which squad and which squad i want to go where. Hell if i could even give the waypoints specific meanings that would be awesome! ie "Mcglaspie, wasabione, scardybob defend datacore" and have that message present on their HUD until i disband/change it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Squads are not usefull, because you dont spawn in squads, and the commander has to constantly shift players around depending on what happens on the field - <!--coloro:#F4A460--><span style="color:#F4A460"><!--/coloro-->global waypoints are nice and very useful even if you use voice most of the time.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> (6+ players in voice sometimes important stuff gets lost, global waypoints help to<u> refocus players on objectives</u>)
<!--coloro:#9ACD32--><span style="color:#9ACD32"><!--/coloro-->Also the possibility to not get beaconed opens up lots of cool possibilitys - and it still has a downside<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->, if you make a wrong decision not enough ppl will beacon so aliens in your base got a better chance of dealing with the beacon. (so you might need to beacon again if you can)
Yes it might be frustrating in public, as long as ppl dont fully understand the game and dont listen to the commander - but assuming that ppl will never learn and never be able to play ns2 in a proper tactical way is just sad and the game mechanics shouldnt be focusing around that possibility.
So let us at least test it before we turn against it.
I'm not really a fan of the waypoint idea, mainly because i'd rather not have more junk obscuring my screen. I don't really like the beacon suggestions either, in addition to what noa has already said about its uses as a commander. It's also a useful tool as an alien to force a beacon to interrupt a marine push on an area, and that really relies on the entire team being recalled.
Awesome work UWE, good to see you thinking outside the box.
The GREAT thing about this system is that it could actually be more flexible and seems effective for public and clan games - if implemented a certain way, a sort of an aide for those using voice comm.
So instead of 'number of players required' and having to accept, you could hold either keys 1 - 5 (1 being least severe/5 being most) and it instead indicates how urgently players need to be somewhere or attacking something. Depending on left/right mouse click and a situationally aware selection tool. E.g
1. Left clicking on a res tower under attack whilst holding 5 is an urgent request, and everyone can see it through the walls (colour red) 2. Left clicking whilst holding 2 on an unbuilt extractor is only seen by those within a certain range, but yet everyone can see it on the minimap. 3. When ever a new order is given, you hear an iconic 'BEEP' noise - so if you don't see it, you can always check the minimap if it is out of range.
I could see this being used in public games and clan matches - Voice comms are great, but if you have 5 requests that the team can see on the minimap, they can self prioritise - with the most urgent being seen by all, and the least urgent being faded out of view depending on distance from location.
So if you bring up the minimap you can see all of them, but the rest do not clutter the screen.
It gives the team focus points (GOOD THING) I love it! Works on lots of levels.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1898445:date=Jan 31 2012, 08:44 PM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Jan 31 2012, 08:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1898445"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm skeptical that an advanced waypointing system like that will ever really be used. Skilled commanders who plan things out to that extent usually have a mic and use it instead. And pub marines don't generally pay enough attention to waypoints to bother with something so involved anyway.
Also, marines should not be able to opt out of the distress beacon IMO. That's part of the drawback - in exchange for an emergency base defense, you lose your non-phase-gated footholds on the map. Sometimes in NS1 aliens could save their hive from a rush by forcing a distress beacon, whereas with this change one marine could stay behind to build a phase gate while the rest save the base.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Pretty much this.
I want a journal to keep up with the different quest the commander offers me, otherwise I will get lost!
More seriously global waypoints is a good idea, but this accept/cancel is clearly an overkill. Putting so much text on the screen is not a good idea either, there is already a lot of stuff displayed it's gonna be pretty confusing for new players. And as a general rule everything that can be put in game instead of displayed as flat text in front of your face should be put in game. There is already a waypoint line thing system in game, so use that.
About the beacon, you loose the possibility for aliens to do effective counter attacks and the marine comm loose control over his team (specially in public), that's a pretty high price to pay. So you need some good stuff on the positive side to justify it.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->More seriously global waypoints is a good idea, but this accept/cancel is clearly an overkill.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i agree, keep it simple - commanders can/need to talk still.
Well then how about we make an extra force beacon button, if you use this players cant decline it? Im not sure if its really a bad idea to have the possibility to not beacon everybody - this is not ns1 there are a lot differences why it might not be as overpowered as it sounds. (i would like to at least test it for a patch)
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
edited January 2012
as long as its not taking over my entire screens as that mock up suggests. i dont need a mic-less commander spamming my screen with text as i'm attempting to take on skulks.
<!--quoteo(post=1898484:date=Feb 1 2012, 07:11 AM:name=Yuuki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yuuki @ Feb 1 2012, 07:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1898484"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I want a journal to keep up with the different quest the commander offers me, otherwise I will get lost!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I lol'd.
Yeah, I think the accept thing is overkill.
Simple global waypoints are useful and will find use, for both sides. As much as we want our micromanaged units a la the RTS, NS will never be that game (except with bots).
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Pumped to see Jane McGonigal speak tonight about the Power of Gaming<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have seen her "Gaming can make a better world" on TED.com when i was doing research for my gamification paper. Pretty inspiring, she really is an awesome speaker.
I love the Idea of acceptable waypoints, that would make things so much better, because as a Marine you dont really know if you are still needed at the WP or maybe if the comm has jut forgotten that waypoint. Although I can see that this might be a little bit overwhelming when there are 3 of them and you see them everywhere. Here are some ideas that would be a little more subtle:
On one side of the screen you would see a small list of waypoints that are available to accept (maximum is 5 for example). You can see them on your Minimap but not in your HUD. You can only see them in your hud if you accept them in the list or click on the Waypoint on the Minimap.
Or you can not see them on the map at all before you accept them and only the list just shows you what to do, how many marines are needed and how far away that waypoint is. The list is sorted by distane, closest WP is first etc... and as soon as you accept, the waypoint appears in your hud and you are on your way.
i have to say that even though i use voice comm while commanding 90% of the time, waypoints are very useful when the person you're directing either doesn't know exactly where you want him, or say you've placed a building you want him to build specifically it saves the 5 seconds of looking around in base for it. the advanced waypointing system highlighted will also help marines make individual decisions in pubs. i think it would be a great addition, especially in larger games.
Comments
side note: is there any screen shots of any type of real exo? or has the model and textures not even been created yet? and maybe it'd tie people over with a video of the (broken or not) jetpack... just my 2cents.
I guess this is a remark about his general attitude, but you'd be hard pressed to deny that MACs constitute poor innovation on UWE's part, and I wouldn't be surprised (or sorry) to see them go at some point.
You're right, and this reminds me of yet another reason why the Personal Res scaling system is flawed. With more players, you also get more weapons/lifeforms, which magnifies the problems with structure health scalability.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The maximum damage "machinegun" Spikes deal need to be reduced (right now it's 300 DPS against unarmored targets!)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The in-game spike dps is actually around 200, despite what balance.lua says. Rushing the CC is effective as any alien class. But I agree that tweaking health and armor values won't amount to much.
Yeah, every single post.
What a relief! For the Bay Area, I was expecting a nude beach pic...
for one thing, it will make them absolutely horrible in combat
combat is more important than silly frustrating CC rushes once players learn to shoot lerks with their guns
INTRODUCING MAGGOT BOMB
Detonates upon impact with a marine or structure. When a marine is hit, the maggots unravel and start gnawing away at his armor, when his armor is breached the maggots then proceed to eat the marine from the inside out and then gain control of his central nervous system ,allowing the Kharaa to take control of the marine's body, and return fire on his fellow teammates until he is killed.
When a structure is hit, the worms rapidly dig their way into the structure's primary motherboard, and create numerous calculation errors causing sentry turrets to open fire on marines, marine res towers to send res to the Kharaa team, and causes turret factories to produce MACs and ARCs that open fire on marine structures.
Mini Hydra's have many more heads and work more like a minigun. The have a much higher and sustained rate of fire, but they have less range, do less damage per shot, and their accuracy is crap. Kind of spray and pray when a target is in the area, more a hindrance than serious danger. Also only costs the gorge 3 res to place :)
LOL,
Seriously though, that is a creepy photo, but it does make you realise, there's nothing truly alien about the Kharaa, it's just terrestrial diversity. :)
Would be pretty awesome to see other players in your squad, or in your waypoint group, as L4D style outlines through walls.
If i could create squads (kind of like in BF3 but commander chooses who is in which squad) and then the marines could push a button to bring up squad info such as where they (squad members) are, whether they are alive or dead what gun they are using(so you can form powerful squads). That way say if you are alone in Flight control you would know when your back up will arrive.
What i would like would a be a list (also push a button to bring it up so its not obscuring to much of your view) of all the players on my team and where they are. I could then select who i want in which squad and which squad i want to go where. Hell if i could even give the waypoints specific meanings that would be awesome! ie "Mcglaspie, wasabione, scardybob defend datacore" and have that message present on their HUD until i disband/change it.
anyway those are my thoughts!
Also, marines should not be able to opt out of the distress beacon IMO. That's part of the drawback - in exchange for an emergency base defense, you lose your non-phase-gated footholds on the map. Sometimes in NS1 aliens could save their hive from a rush by forcing a distress beacon, whereas with this change one marine could stay behind to build a phase gate while the rest save the base.
But I think the new WP system is brilliant. It gets buy-in from players about the waypoints which I think makes them much more likely to be used. However the new WP system will need to work with what ever the squad system turns out to be. Other wise you'd have two systems that are oriented towards the same goal: team work, which could be fighting each other.
Really I think the WP system could be used to form ephemeral squads. Everyone who accepted a WP is part of a squad until they die or accept another WP. And of course there needs to be some advantage to being in a squad, and like i said, I think that should be seeing your squad mates through the walls L4D style.
Also maybe having WP's give out money to the ppl who accept them could be cool. Maybe the commander could offer up some of his personal res, or even team res, to people who complete the WP.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->However the new WP system will need to work with what ever the squad system turns out to be. Other wise you'd have two systems that are oriented towards the same goal: team work, which could be fighting each other.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes i agree, by having the commander choose squads and what they do would avoid this. Like i posted:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What i would like would a be a list (also push a button to bring it up so its not obscuring to much of your view) of all the players on my team and where they are. I could then select who i want in which squad and which squad i want to go where. Hell if i could even give the waypoints specific meanings that would be awesome! ie "Mcglaspie, wasabione, scardybob defend datacore" and have that message present on their HUD until i disband/change it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--coloro:#9ACD32--><span style="color:#9ACD32"><!--/coloro-->Also the possibility to not get beaconed opens up lots of cool possibilitys - and it still has a downside<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->, if you make a wrong decision not enough ppl will beacon so aliens in your base got a better chance of dealing with the beacon. (so you might need to beacon again if you can)
Yes it might be frustrating in public, as long as ppl dont fully understand the game and dont listen to the commander - but assuming that ppl will never learn and never be able to play ns2 in a proper tactical way is just sad and the game mechanics shouldnt be focusing around that possibility.
So let us at least test it before we turn against it.
The GREAT thing about this system is that it could actually be more flexible and seems effective for public and clan games - if implemented a certain way, a sort of an aide for those using voice comm.
So instead of 'number of players required' and having to accept, you could hold either keys 1 - 5 (1 being least severe/5 being most) and it instead indicates how urgently players need to be somewhere or attacking something. Depending on left/right mouse click and a situationally aware selection tool. E.g
1. Left clicking on a res tower under attack whilst holding 5 is an urgent request, and everyone can see it through the walls (colour red)
2. Left clicking whilst holding 2 on an unbuilt extractor is only seen by those within a certain range, but yet everyone can see it on the minimap.
3. When ever a new order is given, you hear an iconic 'BEEP' noise - so if you don't see it, you can always check the minimap if it is out of range.
I could see this being used in public games and clan matches - Voice comms are great, but if you have 5 requests that the team can see on the minimap, they can self prioritise - with the most urgent being seen by all, and the least urgent being faded out of view depending on distance from location.
So if you bring up the minimap you can see all of them, but the rest do not clutter the screen.
It gives the team focus points (GOOD THING) I love it! Works on lots of levels.
;)
Also, marines should not be able to opt out of the distress beacon IMO. That's part of the drawback - in exchange for an emergency base defense, you lose your non-phase-gated footholds on the map. Sometimes in NS1 aliens could save their hive from a rush by forcing a distress beacon, whereas with this change one marine could stay behind to build a phase gate while the rest save the base.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pretty much this.
More seriously global waypoints is a good idea, but this accept/cancel is clearly an overkill. Putting so much text on the screen is not a good idea either, there is already a lot of stuff displayed it's gonna be pretty confusing for new players. And as a general rule everything that can be put in game instead of displayed as flat text in front of your face should be put in game. There is already a waypoint line thing system in game, so use that.
About the beacon, you loose the possibility for aliens to do effective counter attacks and the marine comm loose control over his team (specially in public), that's a pretty high price to pay. So you need some good stuff on the positive side to justify it.
i agree, keep it simple - commanders can/need to talk still.
Well then how about we make an extra force beacon button, if you use this players cant decline it?
Im not sure if its really a bad idea to have the possibility to not beacon everybody - this is not ns1 there are a lot differences why it might not be as overpowered as it sounds.
(i would like to at least test it for a patch)
I lol'd.
Yeah, I think the accept thing is overkill.
Simple global waypoints are useful and will find use, for both sides. As much as we want our micromanaged units a la the RTS, NS will never be that game (except with bots).
I have seen her "Gaming can make a better world" on TED.com when i was doing research for my gamification paper.
Pretty inspiring, she really is an awesome speaker.
I'm so jelly...
On one side of the screen you would see a small list of waypoints that are available to accept (maximum is 5 for example). You can see them on your Minimap but not in your HUD. You can only see them in your hud if you accept them in the list or click on the Waypoint on the Minimap.
Or you can not see them on the map at all before you accept them and only the list just shows you what to do, how many marines are needed and how far away that waypoint is. The list is sorted by distane, closest WP is first etc... and as soon as you accept, the waypoint appears in your hud and you are on your way.
Something like that might work...