<!--quoteo(post=1915686:date=Mar 21 2012, 01:51 AM:name=IeptBarakat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IeptBarakat @ Mar 21 2012, 01:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1915686"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Don't forget about the t.s.a on the marine everythings. :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Trust me, we aren't forgetting. Going to be a pain to go back through all those textures and change it though :/
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
edited March 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1915737:date=Mar 21 2012, 12:33 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Mar 21 2012, 12:33 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1915737"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Trust me, we aren't forgetting. Going to be a pain to go back through all those textures and change it though :/
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well it will be worth it in the long run, sure it will be a little awkward at first but I'm sure people can make a nice background story of how the authority turned into a federation to protect the worlds against the kharaa threat. Though Frontiersmen will always be a cool name. Thanks for always designing great art!
Trans-System federation doesn't sound right to me.
Recalling that the TSA was the actual militant body that volunteered to combat, and authority was a fitting title, as they were initially the "police" force that regulated the corporations during the dark times of the expansion from violating human rights.
According to Wikipedia: a Federation is a "a type of sovereign state characterized by a union of partially self-governing states or regions united by a central (federal) government."
Which seems to be incompatible to what the TSA was established as from NS1 canon, as the TSA doesn't represent any regions or states, they were a military force lead by the revived British secret service to enforce the charter, and given the nature of the NS universe, such a police force couldn't be associated with any particular company or state.
Aside from the inconsistencies, Federation just doesn't sound as cool as <i>Authority</i>. And having a triple consonant be the acronym to such a major faction doesn't roll off the tongue or feel quite as good.
I'm assuming that TSA was dropped to avoid affiliation with the Transportation Security Administration, but i think there are better alternatives.
Some suggestions that i like: Trans-System Service (TSS) Trans-System Command (TSC) Trans-System Commission (TSC) Trans-System Security (TSS) Trans-System Force (TSF) Trans-System Initiative (TSI) - My favorite one
Those are just the ones off the top of my head, that don't have an A as the final acronym and still characterize the TSA's role in NS1's canon.
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1916049:date=Mar 21 2012, 01:59 PM:name=DJPenguin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DJPenguin @ Mar 21 2012, 01:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1916049"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No more TSA? So my marine can't give an Onos a cavity search anymore?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, we all knew that the true purpose of the phasegate was to be a porno-scanner :)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just came up with a new squad/pack system. No squad spawning, but it will be easy for players to group themselves together.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> +1 Do want!
sad. ClownJoin Date: 2012-02-25Member: 147407Members
Now, let's hope this is different from the 200 build where people started ###### as soon as it was out. Things have changed, which means it will take sometime to get used to.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Posted today (8 minutes ago) via Twitter (discuss) We're having a bug where sometimes friendly marines go invisible. You can restart the game to fix until we patch. Oops.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Finished reading through the design doc. Seeing that such a document exists is really encouraging and that it was made available to the community is gutsy. Governance ftw.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Public vs. Competitive play<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I found this section a bit lacking in direction. It feels like you haven't really made up your mind. I've thought about this before and I came to the conclusion that you should build and design primarily for public games because even competitive players will spend most of their time in pub games, and most people won't even play competitively at all. That said, competitive play will always reveal the weakest link or something that can be exploited. You then address the weaknesses in a way that doesn't disrupt or confuse public games.
<b>What I thought was missing</b> <ul><li>Something about stalemates & the domino or seesaw effect <blockquote>The section on end game actually left the door wide open for stalemates. Stalemates aren't a problem in the current build but they have been on and off over the life of NS. Also I think/hope you want to avoid having the game punish you for early losses or compounds early losses (seesaw effect / domino effect)</blockquote></li><li>Something about diversity within teams (ie: want to avoid whole team of fades being more effective than mixed team; hinted at in the Purity of Purpose and Unit Roles sections)</li><li>Something governing weapon systems <blockquote>This should help when considering the appropriateness of stuff from NS1 like devour or acid rocket as well as new stuff like the plasma rifle. A word I keep coming back to is one upmanship. You develop new technologies to counter a problem or to exploit an oportunity. Adding weapon systems that sound or look cool but don't have a functional purpose runs counter to the concept of <i>natural selection</i>.
Specifically, plasma rifle sounds kick ass but imagine how useful a <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pxjnl1yuXk" target="_blank">net launcher</a> would be! You get the feeling it has been developed to deal with and manage lerks, but might even be useful against fades. Similarly, an <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8DehAUimRA" target="_blank">anti tank rifle</a> might be the best counter to an Onos, who is esentially a large, slow, armoured target. I'd caution against a minigun being effective against an Onos because inherently & intuitively a minigun should be very effective against all the other less armourd lifeforms. A minigun is like two or three light machine guns all pointing in the same direction. It doesn't suddenly become a cannon.</blockquote></li></ul>
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Commanders shouldn’t be able to do direct damage (violates perceived fairness in shooter).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> For clarification, do you mean that a commander can't do something like an ion cannon strike? (to use an old C&C reference)
Lastly, I think you can move the tech flowcharts out of that doc. They're closer to implementation details.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Lots of discussions about Onos hive-1 power. He's definitely OP at the moment but we've got some fixes in mind<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Lets see how you guys change this way. Hopefully just change the weapons...
Regarding the NS2 High-level design log and the <a href="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/KWwxPrydscHzj-a38yRokznvllKGEJdI5mL8C_EwKD5KD5UIcmaIvf7IKVTaSZVNjJboTpG1622MHnPTMqxOsiH1qrwAPSYUVpOL0Mos4N8nFS2CRWI" target="_blank">alien tech-tree</a>:
What happened to Gorge's <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/2009/8/gorge_reveal" target="_blank">Damage Soak</a> ?
There are also a few abilities missing ( f.e. Lerk doesn't have Bilebombs, Gorge doesn't have Goo Wall ).
Are you going to update the tech-tree at some point to bring it to the current state of the game ?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Purity of purpose/Non-obsolescence No unit, weapon, ability, evolution, etc. should make another obsolete. Ie, every capability in the game should have a pure purpose. So as the game progresses, there should never be a time where something in the game will no longer be viable for the rest of the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
From the high-level design doc
I am curious about this more in the sense of the current lmg vs grenade launcher. Really when going between the two you lose rifle butt but gain... a grenade launcher. I feel like the straight up power differential of the secondary attack clearly makes the nade launcher better and essentially does make the vanilla lmg obsolete. Are there any plans to change the grenade launcher back to the NS1 style or perhaps a different direction?
Also the fact that the LMG is pretty useless against fades and onos, makes it obsolete in the late game.
I always thought a cool upgrade for skulks would be something that reduced the model size by 20%. Perhaps if you choose speed your model size gets smaller but if you choose carapace then it gets bigger. It would be cool to see different looking skulks all depending on what upgrades they had.
Comments
Trust me, we aren't forgetting. Going to be a pain to go back through all those textures and change it though :/
--Cory
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well it will be worth it in the long run, sure it will be a little awkward at first but I'm sure people can make a nice background story of how the authority turned into a federation to protect the worlds against the kharaa threat. Though Frontiersmen will always be a cool name. Thanks for always designing great art!
Best... news... ever...
Recalling that the TSA was the actual militant body that volunteered to combat, and authority was a fitting title, as they were initially the "police" force that regulated the corporations during the dark times of the expansion from violating human rights.
According to Wikipedia: a Federation is a "a type of sovereign state characterized by a union of partially self-governing states or regions united by a central (federal) government."
Which seems to be incompatible to what the TSA was established as from NS1 canon, as the TSA doesn't represent any regions or states, they were a military force lead by the revived British secret service to enforce the charter, and given the nature of the NS universe, such a police force couldn't be associated with any particular company or state.
Aside from the inconsistencies, Federation just doesn't sound as cool as <i>Authority</i>. And having a triple consonant be the acronym to such a major faction doesn't roll off the tongue or feel quite as good.
I'm assuming that TSA was dropped to avoid affiliation with the Transportation Security Administration, but i think there are better alternatives.
Some suggestions that i like:
Trans-System Service (TSS)
Trans-System Command (TSC)
Trans-System Commission (TSC)
Trans-System Security (TSS)
Trans-System Force (TSF)
Trans-System Initiative (TSI) - My favorite one
Those are just the ones off the top of my head, that don't have an A as the final acronym and still characterize the TSA's role in NS1's canon.
Well, we all knew that the true purpose of the phasegate was to be a porno-scanner :)
Potentially, the stream indicated another round of playtesting then hopefully a release.
Are alien lifeforms unlocked from hives?
awesome
+1 Do want!
<u>YES!</u>
::crosses arms::
i'll wait, RIGHT HERE.
:)
Can't wait to play when I get home from work.
We're having a bug where sometimes friendly marines go invisible. You can restart the game to fix until we patch. Oops.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Also happend sometimes in build 200 btw.
1 min to dlow as always ^^.
Also as a webbed Thread in the Forums pls!
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Public vs. Competitive play<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I found this section a bit lacking in direction. It feels like you haven't really made up your mind.
I've thought about this before and I came to the conclusion that you should build and design primarily for public games because even competitive players will spend most of their time in pub games, and most people won't even play competitively at all. That said, competitive play will always reveal the weakest link or something that can be exploited. You then address the weaknesses in a way that doesn't disrupt or confuse public games.
<b>What I thought was missing</b>
<ul><li>Something about stalemates & the domino or seesaw effect
<blockquote>The section on end game actually left the door wide open for stalemates. Stalemates aren't a problem in the current build but they have been on and off over the life of NS. Also I think/hope you want to avoid having the game punish you for early losses or compounds early losses (seesaw effect / domino effect)</blockquote></li><li>Something about diversity within teams (ie: want to avoid whole team of fades being more effective than mixed team; hinted at in the Purity of Purpose and Unit Roles sections)</li><li>Something governing weapon systems
<blockquote>This should help when considering the appropriateness of stuff from NS1 like devour or acid rocket as well as new stuff like the plasma rifle. A word I keep coming back to is one upmanship. You develop new technologies to counter a problem or to exploit an oportunity. Adding weapon systems that sound or look cool but don't have a functional purpose runs counter to the concept of <i>natural selection</i>.
Specifically, plasma rifle sounds kick ass but imagine how useful a <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pxjnl1yuXk" target="_blank">net launcher</a> would be! You get the feeling it has been developed to deal with and manage lerks, but might even be useful against fades. Similarly, an <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8DehAUimRA" target="_blank">anti tank rifle</a> might be the best counter to an Onos, who is esentially a large, slow, armoured target. I'd caution against a minigun being effective against an Onos because inherently & intuitively a minigun should be very effective against all the other less armourd lifeforms. A minigun is like two or three light machine guns all pointing in the same direction. It doesn't suddenly become a cannon.</blockquote></li></ul>
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Commanders shouldn’t be able to do direct damage (violates perceived fairness in shooter).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For clarification, do you mean that a commander can't do something like an ion cannon strike? (to use an old C&C reference)
Lastly, I think you can move the tech flowcharts out of that doc. They're closer to implementation details.
Hope this is useful.
Lets see how you guys change this way.
Hopefully just change the weapons...
What happened to Gorge's <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/2009/8/gorge_reveal" target="_blank">Damage Soak</a> ?
There are also a few abilities missing ( f.e. Lerk doesn't have Bilebombs, Gorge doesn't have Goo Wall ).
Are you going to update the tech-tree at some point to bring it to the current state of the game ?
No unit, weapon, ability, evolution, etc. should make another obsolete. Ie, every capability in the game should have a pure purpose. So as the game progresses, there should never be a time where something in the game will no longer be viable for the rest of the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
From the high-level design doc
I am curious about this more in the sense of the current lmg vs grenade launcher. Really when going between the two you lose rifle butt but gain... a grenade launcher. I feel like the straight up power differential of the secondary attack clearly makes the nade launcher better and essentially does make the vanilla lmg obsolete. Are there any plans to change the grenade launcher back to the NS1 style or perhaps a different direction?
I always thought a cool upgrade for skulks would be something that reduced the model size by 20%. Perhaps if you choose speed your model size gets smaller but if you choose carapace then it gets bigger. It would be cool to see different looking skulks all depending on what upgrades they had.