NS2HD NS2 Beta Tournament

Hugh · August 2011

<div class="IPBDescription">Are you Gorge enough?</div><span style="color:#00FF00"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><span style="color:#FF0000"><b>OUTDATED</b></span>: Thread got too long/confusing, <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=115074" target="_blank">replacement here</a>.</span></span>
<span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%">G'day everyone and... Hello.

<span style="color:#FF0000"><b>Please direct all communication regarding the tournament to NS2HD@live.com.au - I can't answer forum PM reliably/quickly</b></span>

<span style="color:#00FF00"><b>Currently aiming for tournament start on the 30th of October, with 16 teams.</b></span>

I propose to start the first NS2HD NS2 Beta Tournament, and I'd love you to join me. Below is a link to a Google Doc chock full of information!

<b><a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vJJbwHX4M8kBcRoYOhZl5TcpKIatTNsNkUGw9Lo7DmE/edit?hl=en_GB" target="_blank">Click here to view the Tournament Rules and Information</a></b>

Some admin:

The tournament will start (fingers crossed) on 29 October (Proximity to auspicious date, anyone?).

Round 1 - 29/30 October

Round 2 - 5 November

Semi-Finals - 6 November

3rd Place Decider - 12 November

Grand Final - 13 November

I will spend the next month organising the tournament like a crazy ###### - so rest assured you will be provided with a calendar of matches, times, who you are playing, etc on this forum, by email, and on the NS2HD channel.

Wherever I can, I will organise matches to be at a reasonable hour.

I will soon send a questionaire to all team captains for them to fill out to allow me to organise the rounds.

All team captains - Please send me an email at NS2HD@live.com.au. I need your contact details so that I can send out and collect information.

<span style="color:#00FF00"><b>Current Tournament Teams - We have 16!</b></span>

Team #156 has kindly offered to vacate their second slot if a 17th team is formed.

- [Name] | [Team Captain] | [Nationality]

1. Anagram | TrueVeritas | USA
2. Cydweithrediad | Smaug | USA
3. Team #156 1 | McGlaspie | USA with a sprinking of EU
4. Darkside | Boxer | Canada
5. HBZ | dePara | Germany
6. Frelge | pa1n | France et Belgique
7. Mr. | Scotty | AUS/NZ
8. YO | Obraxis | GB/EU
9. Revolutionary Goldfish | Darkeh | ????
10. TOG | Geng/Mako | AUS
11. Sproggalots | GibbZ | ????
12. UWE | Max | US
13. F4 | Jiriki | EU
14. PUBlic Distrubance | Skymander | NA
15. duplex | swalk | EU
16. Public Europe | Koruyo | EU
[Waiting List] 17. Inversion | US
[Waiting List] 18. Team #156 2 | PersianImm0rtal | USA with a sprinkling of EU

All team captains - Please check your email for the registration forms.

<b><span style="color:#00FF00">Current Tournament Prize Pool</span></b>

<b><span style="color:#FF00FF">US$150 received + US$550 offered = ~US$700</span></b>

Prize money offered:
NS2HD: AUD 50
McGlaspie: USD 50
Boxer 'D: CAD 50
Xerond: [Unspecified]
PersianImm0rtal: USD 5
HBZ: USD 50
Bluethunder2k: AUD 40
#156.Alpha: USD 50
WhiteWingDevil: AUD 100
Andrew S: One waffle maker.
Lewin: AUD 20
Tempest487: AUD 25
SubShadow: EUR 5
Frelge: EUR 50
Anonymous contribution: EUR 50
InversionNS: USD 120

<b><span style="color:#00FF00">Current Servers</span></b>

[Name] | [Admin] | [Location]

Australia Pure | Endar | AU
The Drunken Gorge | autograder | US
Frelge | Phy/Pa1n | FR
Team #156 | Playa_2b (?) | US
InversionNS | Morbus (?) | US
Darkside | inFamousFighter | US
Heidis Ziegenfarm | DePara | EU

<b>Looking for a team:</b>

XeZo (EU), Cakekiller90 (US), watewer (EU), Atone (US), ######beard the Pirate (AU), Megarith747 (EU), delta1 (AU), Aegy (?), Bluethunder2k (AUS), XenomGer (EU), RichardRahl (CA), Lewin (AUS)

Steam group for those looking for a team: <a href="http://steamcommunity.com/groups/ns2lw" target="_blank">http://steamcommunity.com/groups/ns2lw</a> (Thanks Koruyo!)

<span style="color:#FF0000"><b>Please direct all communication regarding the tournament to NS2HD@live.com.au - I can't answer forum PM reliably/quickly</b></span></span>

<span style="color:#00FF00"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><span style="color:#FF0000"><b>OUTDATED</b></span>: Thread got too long/confusing, <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=115074" target="_blank">replacement here</a>.</span></span>

TrueVeritas · August 2011

Anagram is in.

Edit: Oops, USA

Double edit: I'm the team captain.

Heroman117 · August 2011

Sounds awesome, guess its time i finally found a clan or team to join.

Wish i could donate but i'm low on cash at the moment.

On another note with a few questions, will this competition take place very soon or after a few more builds are out (185-190), since im assuming there could be some complaining over which team gets to play aliens more times, which wasn't too much of an issue when there wasn't money involved. Will obvious exploits be prohibited?, minor ones allowed, are there definitive counter measures to spamming, or will the knock out system end any stalemate?

Sounds like fun to me, can't wait to see this play out.

Smaug · August 2011

Cydweithrediad will be playing, count us in.

Dunno how Keith's gonna feel about not being able to participate for a while though...

Primarily USA.

WorthyRival · August 2011

You could make it a $10 entry fee per team payable to the Prize money to boost the pool.

McGlaspie · August 2011

Team #156 is in. We're almost entirely U.S. (two EU members).

Edit: @NS2HD: Why you want to make the tournament about winning a pool of cash? Also, how do you plan on handling game updates? It's possible an update could shred what balance that's in the game now. Just saying. Yet another question, when considering we have clans all over the world, how is the server the matches are played on determined?

PersianImm0rtal · August 2011

The current build is not that great to have a tourney on; its so unbalanced... But what ever I am in! Sounds fun! =]

Zuriki · August 2011

Sounds like it could be fun. I might donate to the prize fund. I have a disagreement with this rule:
"A draw will be decided at random by NS2HD"

Some determining factor would be so much better than coin toss. It could be like, in case of draw the team with the fastest victory wins overall.

TrueVeritas · August 2011

As far as balance goes, instead of best of 3 it should be whoever wins 2 in a row gets to continue. That way the team that gets to play aliens twice doesn't have the advantage.

Hugh · August 2011

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WorthyRival @ Aug 17 2011, 01:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1869510"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>You could make it a $10 entry fee per team payable to the Prize money to boost the pool.</div>

I don't want to limit the tournament to teams that can pay money, but thanks for the suggestion!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (McGlaspie @ Aug 17 2011, 01:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1869511"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Why you want to make the tournament about winning a pool of cash? Also, how do you plan on handling game updates? It's possible an update could shred what balance that's in the game now. Just saying.</div>

Because playing poker for cash is more fun than playing just for chips!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PersianImm0rtal @ Aug 17 2011, 01:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1869514"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>The current build is not that great to have a tourney on; its so unbalanced... But what ever I am in! Sounds fun! =]</div>

Balance is a fact of Beta life. All teams will be playing on a level playing field, and race will be decided by coin toss :). I know 184 balance is quite skewed, but I don't imagine the tournament will happen before ~B186.

Hugh · August 2011

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TrueVeritas @ Aug 17 2011, 01:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1869516"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>As far as balance goes, instead of best of 3 it should be whoever wins 2 in a row gets to continue. That way the team that gets to play aliens twice doesn't have the advantage.</div>

Excuse double post! I like this idea. It is quite fair... Although it probably won't fit with the logistical practicalities of a casted tournament. Rounds could go on for hours... Perhaps the grand final could be best of 5.

PersianImm0rtal · August 2011

You should also enforce a specific map for each round of the tournament (Official or Community)

McGlaspie · August 2011

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ("NS2HD")</div><div class='quotemain'>Because playing poker for cash is more fun than playing just for chips!</div>Fair point. I don't have anything against it, but I was just wondering. I hope that doesn't unintentionally instigate more "strife" around tournament participants. Oh yeah, I'll throw in $50 into the pool.

As far as map selection goes, I recommend the only map used be Summit. Rockdown is horribly imbalanced and Tram still has massive technical problems (visibility / performance).

Hugh · August 2011

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (McGlaspie @ Aug 17 2011, 02:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1869520"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Oh yeah, I'll throw in $50 into the pool.

As far as map selection goes, I recommend the only map used be Summit. Rockdown is horribly imbalanced and Tram still has massive technical problems (visibility / performance).</div>

Woo! Thankyou McGlaspie! That takes us to US$102. Fair point on maps, I have updated the format section.

WasabiOne · August 2011

love the idea! look forward to some good games

Quovatis · August 2011

I agree that a team must win 2 in a row to advance. Put a time limit on it and if it goes over that limit, you reschedule for the next available day and continue. I think the record for NS1 was 14 rounds to decide, but of course that's rare. However, I can see how that wouldn't be good for you, NS2HD, as you'd have to record every one. How about you must win 2 in a row, but if it's still tied after X time, you decide with a coin flip to decide teams, then play 1 more match. The time limit could be 2 hours.

Of course some rules would be nice to keep it sporting, and I suggest the same rules as the 6v6 thread.

Heroman117 · August 2011

Well perhaps this is a chance to implement other community maps that are ready for beta testing like Triad22, since all the particapents could be instructed to have any necessary resources to be installed.

Hugh · August 2011

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quovatis @ Aug 17 2011, 02:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1869525"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>I agree that a team must win 2 in a row to advance. Put a time limit...</div>

Hmmm... Two in a row with a time limit is feasible. The time limit may increase as the rounds progress, depending on how many teams there are. (Aiming for 8 teams, Round 1 -> Semi Finals -> Grand Final). If by some miracle we get to more than 8 teams, its out of the question.

For example, round 1 has a 1 hour time limit, semi finals a 1.5 hour time limit, and grand final no time limit.

Loving the discussion guys!

Quovatis · August 2011

I guess the other issue is how EU/AU teams will play US teams fairly. The server location will likely be a huge part of deciding those matches. In those cases, you'd have to play twice, once on each server. If tied, keep repeating, or do a coin flip.

ScardyBob · August 2011

First off, thanks for organizing this! This really is the next logical step from the 6v6 thread and building a competitive NS2 community. Personally, I vote some of the prize money should go back to Hugh (say 60% Winner, 30% Runner up, 10% to Hugh for all the hard work?)

However, I do have a few questions/suggestions.
<span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><u><b>On team leaders</b></u></span>
I think a leader of each team should be pubically designated and submitted to Hugh before the beginning of a round of matches. They would have sole authority to declare a forfeit of their team, resign a match, or negotiate with Hugh and the other team leader for any other contingencies that might occur. If the team leader needs to leave, another team leader must be designated before the matches can continue. Also, in the event of a disagreement, Hugh makes the final decision. Finally, I'd suggest that the team leader needs to be one of the 6 playing, but doesn't need to be the team captain, comm or be the same every match.

<span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><u><b>On Player/teamcount and composition</b></u></span>
<ul><li>156 might have considerably more than 6 players interested in playing in the tournament. Instead of subbing them in and out, could 156 include two or more separate teams? </li><li>Also, if a team is short a player or two and cannot find replacements, but the other team has extra players willing to switch sides, can the matches still be played as long as both team leaders and Hugh agrees? My concern is that a group of pub players sign up, but have a last minute drop(s) that leaves them with 4 or 5 players come game time. It'd be a shame not to still have the match if the other team was willing to offer some players.</li></ul>

<span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><u><b>On maps</b></u></span>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NS2HD @ Aug 16 2011, 07:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1869505"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>- Each team may propose a map to play on for each round. Where teams propose different maps, NS2HD coin toss decides.</div>
Two things with this rule
<ol type='1'><li>I can see a problem if one of the teams proposes obscure custom map, coin toss gets decided in their favor, and one team plays on a map that they have never tried before/may not even have installed. Instead, can we put together an official list of acceptable tournament map requests (i.e. summit, tram, rockdown + some customs such as triad) so nobody can request obscure ns2_mymap? Also, it would help ensure everyone has the map installed prior to the match time (so there are no delays).</li><li>By round, do you mean a single NS2 match or the 3 (or 2) match pair? I'd prefer it to be the later since it would ensure both sides are playing on equal terms, but also because it would be tedious to have the restart the server between matches.</li></ol>

<span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><u><b>On servers</b></u></span>
With regards to where the game gets played, I could see it done several ways
<ol type='1'><li>One team gets chosen as the 'home' team and play is done on the server of their choosing (with permission of the server owner). For example, if their is a match between 156 and awesomepubteam and awesomepubteam gets the choice they could choose the 156 server, another clan server, or a personal server of one of their members.</li><li>Matches must be played on neutral servers not owned or otherwise affiliated with the teams playing the match. For example, if there is a match between 156 and Cyd, they would have to play on a server unaffiliated with 156 or Cyd. </li><li>A list of servers owners volunteering their servers for the tournament are collected and NS2HD randomly selects one for each match based (in order) on 1) availability of the server owner, 2) location of the server to both teams (i.e. US server for 2 US teams), 3) agreement by both teams on a server, 4) Hugh's choice if their is a disagreement</li><li>Some combination of the above</li></ol>
I personally like 2, but 1 or 3 might be more viable. Also, 3 has the advantage of ensuring that all the servers involved can handle 14-15 players (12 players + 2-3 NS2HD/other recorded perspectives). While lag is to be expected, there are certainly some servers that can't handle this number of players with a tickrate of more than 10 in the current beta.

These arn't mutually-exclusive, but some clear rules should be drawn out before the tournament begins. Maybe the first step should be for all teams who are participating to list any servers they are willing to volunteer for the purposes of this tournament and who the direct contact (SteamID or UWE Forums name, preferred) should be for each server (i.e. the admins of the server who can restart rounds/change maps).

<span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><u><b>On tournament setup</b></u></span>
I'm not sure the elimination-style tournament works very well with the small number of teams we are likely to get (somewhere in the 7-9 is my guess). I'd propose something more like the world cup, where teams are grouped together and each team plays the others in the group. Wins = 2 pts, Draws = 1 pt, Loses = 0 pts and the top team from each group goes on to play in the final. Depending on the number of teams, I'd break it down such that
6 teams = two groups of 3
7 teams = not sure, hopefully it won't happen so that we don't have to think about it
8 teams = two groups of 4
9 teams = three groups of 3 (final would be similar to the group setup where each group winning team would play in a new 3-team group for the championship)
10 teams = two groups of 5
This ensures that each team gets to play multiple teams, even if they lose, but still determines a winner for the final. The problem is this could turn into quite a few matches, so it might be more of a time commitment than you are willing to make.

Sorry for the length of the post, but I think these are things we should clear up before the tournament begins to help it go as smoothly as possible. Thanks again for organizing this!

Boxer`D · August 2011

As long as this tournament starts Sept 5th or later team Darkside is in. =D
Great idea NS2HD, we are all eastern, mostly located in Toronto.
Cheers!

Hugh · August 2011

Great post Scardybob. OP updated with your ideas. Second #156 team added.

On the elimination setup - necessary for brevity. With 8 teams (my current aim) that's 8 matches to organise and cast, and 48 players to herd, probably 1 month to wrap it up.

It's not inconceivable this could get to 16 teams - and that will be 16 matches to organise and cast, and 96 players to herd! Probably 6 weeks to complete.

A group playoff system would just take, I fear, too long. I can only cast so many games per weekend! Perhaps a bigger, non-cast focused tournament could do a group system?

Edit - Awesome Boxer, added Darkside.

Boxer`D · August 2011

Oh and put $50 dollars to the prize pool (again as long as its after sept 5) I dont mind pitching to this game at all or the growth of it!

edit : Oh and PM me info on how to pitch to the prize pool, ( going on vacation thursday for two weeks so expect an answer either tomorrow or when I get back)

Also if the tournament gets as big as you fear/pray it might ^^ I don't mind devoting some time to casting should you need a helping hand

Hugh · August 2011

Thankyou Boxer! Added.

Start will be post sept 5 for sure Boxer. No system for prize pool yet - it will be paypal I think but I need a way to prove I'm not stealing money. Perhaps if we send receipts to a third party who can verify I am putting up all money I receive?

Boxer`D · August 2011

haha whatever you think is fair my friend ^^ I'm sure at this stage we can all work on the honor system =D
Although if you do that idea it will help you for future tournaments

Xerond · August 2011

I'll donate.

PersianImm0rtal · August 2011

I will donate 5 dollars as well. :]

Shilorius · August 2011

Hum.. I don't like the fact that we are playing for money.
Imagine something like the cloak rush cyd did happens in a tournament in which you can win money.. it will cause massive discussions and hate.
I'm afraid it will change the atmosphere from playful fun to grim fighting.
I would prefer that the winner donates the money to UWE .. or so.
Anyway.. thats just my humble opinion.

Edit: I do like the idea to have a tournament in addition to the league in the 6v6 threat! A tournament is a whole new level!

Hugh · August 2011

A valid concern Shilorius. Perhaps individual clans can decide to pledge a portion of their winnings to UWE. But I don't think a play for money is necessarily going to cause hate - all big competitions offer prize money. I hope that the availability of a cash pot will motivate many more teams to come out and play in the competition.

If a team does pull a move as creative as Cyd did against Team #156, then good on them. I will referee all matches for exploitation. If the community agrees a creative play was an exploit, I will rule the win void. Besides, to win the prize a team would have to be good enough to win all their rounds up to the grand final!

dePARA · August 2011

HBZ will be playing.

Location: Germany
Teamcaptain: dePARA
We have one of the best European-Servers ready for fight on.

We (HBZ) donate 50$ for this great idea.
Keep up the good work/ideas NS2HD.

Yuuki · August 2011

I'm in for a random/pub team ! Anybody else interested ?

NS2HD NS2 Beta Tournament

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