Yeah I know some people think topo is too dark and some areas are too dark or whatever, but i absolutely love the contrast of your map. The lighting and darkness contrast is super immersive. I can definitely see going down into sketchy pipeline all dark and sh!t from the lighted east junction... oooo... super immersive... love it...
keep dark areas dark and keep the bright areas bright... ns_veil was too bright anyways :)
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1884681:date=Nov 11 2011, 03:07 PM:name=Commie Spy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Commie Spy @ Nov 11 2011, 03:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1884681"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah I know some people think topo is too dark and some areas are too dark or whatever, but i absolutely love the contrast of your map. The lighting and darkness contrast is super immersive. I can definitely see going down into sketchy pipeline all dark and sh!t from the lighted east junction... oooo... super immersive... love it...
keep dark areas dark and keep the bright areas bright... ns_veil was too bright anyways :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thank you. I know what you mean, darkness is crucial to what I do, in the sense that nothing is more believable than darkness, or easier to achieve.
What I want is to capture a sense of wonder with this map, like you're walking through a movie scene or something special like that. All I can say is I'm blessed, because it's looking good to me right now and there are more graphical features on the way as well. The new areas I've been working on have been big successes in their own way, and I look forward to showing some more soon.
<!--quoteo(post=1884717:date=Nov 12 2011, 06:07 AM:name=fmpone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fmpone @ Nov 12 2011, 06:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1884717"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The new areas I've been working on have been big successes in their own way, and I look forward to showing some more soon.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Speaking of, some screens would be nice (:
aeroripperJoin Date: 2005-02-25Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
edited November 2011
Beautiful work! Some feedback (starting with first picture in this post: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=114979&view=findpost&p=1884803" target="_blank">Post link</a>.
1) I like how you retained those little nooks for skulks to ambush like in NS1. Just make sure a skulk can conceal himself fully from marines coming around that corner.
2) Topo still looks great. Still digging the "cool" coloring vibe you got going on there. The post underneath this one you had a picture of that area leading down from west skylights towards overlook. I like how that pink grating lighting blends well with the green monitor texture.
3) West skylights looks good. Hope you're able to get a good custom skybox to really show off those window views.
4) Lookin' good.
5) I like the lighting from the skylights in this shot.
6) The lighting in those nooks looks a pretty weird (tronish?). I think its from pink lighting shining through grating, but it looks a little too uniform. Might want to adjust the lighting in each to give it more visual interest.
7) System waypointing. Love how it feels familiar yet new at the same time (even with the temp artwork). Some sweet custom artwork like you had in topo will tie this scene together.
8) East junction. The pink light on the wall leading to Dome almost looks too big. May want to reduce size of the light cone but still give it enough to give a good shadow on that railing. May not even notice this in game, though.
9) It looks like atmospheric lighting has been optmized for the next build. Do you think a fan with atmospherics and "floating particles" in the sun rays would look good in this area to accent the "cool" feeling of the room?
Maybe after another room or two you should get NS2HD to do a mid-way preview of your map to show off the progress made from his last video before it was detailed:
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1884805:date=Nov 13 2011, 12:25 AM:name=aeroripper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aeroripper @ Nov 13 2011, 12:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1884805"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Beautiful work! I really like the look of system waypointing (even with the temp artwork). Digging how you're retaining some of the pinkish lighting from the original version. I like how system waypointing\topo still have that old familiar feeling to them, but improved. Looking forward to see how double is going to be redone. You should get NS2HD to do a preview video after you get a few more areas done.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thank you. Although I eyeballed the pinkish red from Veil 1, I think it's more or less the same. I'm using it differently perhaps, but it should be the same color. I know it matters hehe. I also know how epic and make-or-break double is, that's why I'm saving it for last. It's going to be something special.
I might contact Hugh but probably not for a while, and maybe not until the map is nearing completion.
aeroripperJoin Date: 2005-02-25Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
Updated the post with more relevant feedback, you reply fast! I think you removed some of the older pics but hope feedback is somewhat helpful. Hopefully the devs will add in weld points to the engine again so marines can still weld those vents shut in double. Looks like they're doing another pass on door\welding mechanics in the next build, so many some of that will change.
From the screens I wouldn't believe topo is the same map. The ambient room color is so extreme and it looks a lot different (and better) than the other screens due to this too. The other ambient colour for the main of the map is okay, it just needs toned down so you can tell the wall textures aren't all one color. As either I'm going colorblind or they all look the same color, reminds me of a sepia filter.
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1884808:date=Nov 13 2011, 01:00 AM:name=aeroripper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aeroripper @ Nov 13 2011, 01:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1884808"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Updated the post with more relevant feedback, you reply fast! I think you removed some of the older pics but hope feedback is somewhat helpful. Hopefully the devs will add in weld points to the engine again so marines can still weld those vents shut in double. Looks like they're doing another pass on door\welding mechanics in the next build, so many some of that will change.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
THanks for all the feedback, you noticed some things that i'm shocked anyone would see.
aeroripperJoin Date: 2005-02-25Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
edited November 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1884840:date=Nov 13 2011, 11:03 AM:name=fmpone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fmpone @ Nov 13 2011, 11:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1884840"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->THanks for all the feedback, you noticed some things that i'm shocked anyone would see.
Thanks everybody for the kind words and crit<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm probably too nit picky, and its difficult to see how it really looks from static screenshots vs. ingame walking around. So it may look just fine anyways, so take my feedback with a grain of sand and go with what feels right to you :D As far as that shot from east junction > c12 area, I like has those cubby hole things in the wall for skulks to hide in, and the look with the pinkish lighting. It reminds me of the original there. I think the point of critique was the texture (?) or the way the light plays on the inside of those that looks weird. I think its from a light shining through grating pointing at that wall.
Evil_bOb1Join Date: 2002-07-13Member: 938Members, Squad Five Blue
Thats some very nice stuff fmpone. I really like how you "eliminate the perception of planes." It a hard thing to explain :p What I mean is, the surfaces are divided in a certain way that makes you lose the idea of the whole plane... I was wondering how you get that look, and I realized I tend to try to express the surfaces as a whole, while you divide them into many pieces making the perception of them disappear. It also regulates the sens of scale. Making things for you look smaller as the eye does not have something big to attach to, in contrary to my mapping...
Virtual space and real life spaces are getting more and more different. The experience in reality is tied to so many minute details that are not expressed but felt. Something that a virtual world cannot give, as it is only an appearance. Therefore appearances have gone over the top in recent video games, to enrich the experience in a virtual way. In architecture we tend to move in the opposite direction to create space than from video game design.
I have to admit I haven't really played a modern fps since... something like COD3 (the WW2 version not MW!) because things have just been the same in the genre for me (franchises +1, +1, +1). But I wanted to add a bit more 2011 feel to turtle to some degree so I just took on Metro 2033 (btw which I love! having lived in Moscow, and having used their metro many times also adds to my experience!), all this to understand what is done in the industry in this time.
Anyway, these screens are very inspiring to me. To a degree, I find your screens don't look virtual, science fiction yes, but I lose the sens of the construction method of each space. I could copy and replicate them because I map and know how to build things using the editor, but what I'm saying is you can't really tell this came out of an 3d editor. Yet you achieved this in a way that would be unthinkable for real life construction ( I love paradoxes! :p ). Rest assured I'm not going to copy your ways for the nature of the spaces in veil and turtle are very different anyway :p but I love what you have done.
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1884858:date=Nov 13 2011, 04:28 PM:name=Evil_bOb1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Evil_bOb1 @ Nov 13 2011, 04:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1884858"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thats some very nice stuff fmpone. I really like how you "eliminate the perception of planes." It a hard thing to explain :p What I mean is, the surfaces are divided in a certain way that makes you lose the idea of the whole plane... I was wondering how you get that look, and I realized I tend to try to express the surfaces as a whole, while you divide them into many pieces making the perception of them disappear. It also regulates the sens of scale. Making things for you look smaller as the eye does not have something big to attach to, in contrary to my mapping...
Virtual space and real life spaces are getting more and more different. The experience in reality is tied to so many minute details that are not expressed but felt. Something that a virtual world cannot give, as it is only an appearance. Therefore appearances have gone over the top in recent video games, to enrich the experience in a virtual way. In architecture we tend to move in the opposite direction to create space than from video game design.
I have to admit I haven't really played a modern fps since... something like COD3 (the WW2 version not MW!) because things have just been the same in the genre for me (franchises +1, +1, +1). But I wanted to add a bit more 2011 feel to turtle to some degree so I just took on Metro 2033 (btw which I love! having lived in Moscow, and having used their metro many times also adds to my experience!), all this to understand what is done in the industry in this time.
Anyway, these screens are very inspiring to me. To a degree, I find your screens don't look virtual, science fiction yes, but I lose the sens of the construction method of each space. I could copy and replicate them because I map and know how to build things using the editor, but what I'm saying is you can't really tell this came out of an 3d editor. Yet you achieved this in a way that would be unthinkable for real life construction ( I love paradoxes! :p ). Rest assured I'm not going to copy your ways for the nature of the spaces in veil and turtle are very different anyway :p but I love what you have done.
Keep up the good work! :D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats a very thoughtful post. I know what you're saying about the surfaces. Its a problem I struggle with, with every new room I make. Don't make the mistake of thinking this is some natural ability of mine or anyone else, it takes work and good ideas to make a surface interesting. Veil 1 from NS1 gave me most of the good ideas, it was just incumbent on me to do something with the established "canvas" of the NS1 geometry. That was a huge handicap for this map. A new map I make might not go as well, because I don't have the raw geometry that Andrew Weldon provided me with as a blueprint when he made ns_veil.
With regard to specific techniques, I've been doing this a long time. Sometimes when I see your screenshots I can tell you know how to map, but you might not know how to construct a visually great screenshot. It takes experience looking at great maps. That's where you should start, not from real life.
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
Overlook is coming along nicely. Then subsector, which is a tech point room, which means an extreme and in your face presentation. No screenshots for a while.
aeroripperJoin Date: 2005-02-25Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->which means an extreme and in your face presentation.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I want get hit with a pie in the face every time I walk into sub sector. Also lasers shooting everywhere and looping guitar solos. Make it so.
<!--quoteo(post=1885301:date=Nov 17 2011, 01:53 AM:name=aeroripper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aeroripper @ Nov 17 2011, 01:53 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1885301"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I want get hit with a pie in the face every time I walk into sub sector. Also lasers shooting everywhere and looping guitar solos. Make it so.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> might as weal ask for a gorge in a clown suit with thumbs and likes to call you mommy. rofl
The first two and the last shot is such better quality and a much better theme than the other two, so I can only assume you're going to grunge that area up to suit?
I particularly like the use of the red/black in the second picture.
That node placement looks a bit iffy in pic #6. What about moving it up to the area where the steps are, underneath the vent opening?
aeroripperJoin Date: 2005-02-25Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
edited November 2011
Looking good! I also like the pink\black look of the second pic. I would also move the power node under the vent (the one that comes from skylights) like konata suggested. Hope the devs are able to sexy up the glass texture\shaders in a future build. That giant grate covered window could look amazing with atmospheric lighting (sunlight pouring in). Looks like the next build will have it optimized.
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1886056:date=Nov 21 2011, 08:30 PM:name=wankalot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wankalot @ Nov 21 2011, 08:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1886056"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why do I get the feeling that the community will be playing more direct NS1 ports on maps like this than actual NS2.....<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My whole philosophy on that is, if it ain't broke, why fix it; why reinvent the wheel; give the people what they want; do what works.
Comments
keep dark areas dark and keep the bright areas bright... ns_veil was too bright anyways :)
keep dark areas dark and keep the bright areas bright... ns_veil was too bright anyways :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thank you. I know what you mean, darkness is crucial to what I do, in the sense that nothing is more believable than darkness, or easier to achieve.
What I want is to capture a sense of wonder with this map, like you're walking through a movie scene or something special like that. All I can say is I'm blessed, because it's looking good to me right now and there are more graphical features on the way as well. The new areas I've been working on have been big successes in their own way, and I look forward to showing some more soon.
Speaking of, some screens would be nice (:
+100
need my weekly fix.
<img src="http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/6157/veileight.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/1115/veileleven.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/1898/veilfive.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/3194/veilfour.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/9848/veilfourteen.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/5255/veilnine.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/4888/veilone.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/3208/veilseven.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/2346/veilsix.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Taken in 187.
<img src="http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/5263/veilthirteen.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/6435/veilthree.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/5615/veiltwelve.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/9522/veiltwo.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
1) I like how you retained those little nooks for skulks to ambush like in NS1. Just make sure a skulk can conceal himself fully from marines coming around that corner.
2) Topo still looks great. Still digging the "cool" coloring vibe you got going on there. The post underneath this one you had a picture of that area leading down from west skylights towards overlook. I like how that pink grating lighting blends well with the green monitor texture.
3) West skylights looks good. Hope you're able to get a good custom skybox to really show off those window views.
4) Lookin' good.
5) I like the lighting from the skylights in this shot.
6) The lighting in those nooks looks a pretty weird (tronish?). I think its from pink lighting shining through grating, but it looks a little too uniform. Might want to adjust the lighting in each to give it more visual interest.
7) System waypointing. Love how it feels familiar yet new at the same time (even with the temp artwork). Some sweet custom artwork like you had in topo will tie this scene together.
8) East junction. The pink light on the wall leading to Dome almost looks too big. May want to reduce size of the light cone but still give it enough to give a good shadow on that railing. May not even notice this in game, though.
9) It looks like atmospheric lighting has been optmized for the next build. Do you think a fan with atmospherics and "floating particles" in the sun rays would look good in this area to accent the "cool" feeling of the room?
Maybe after another room or two you should get NS2HD to do a mid-way preview of your map to show off the progress made from his last video before it was detailed:
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/SH9RhXRLB_M"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/SH9RhXRLB_M" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
Thank you. Although I eyeballed the pinkish red from Veil 1, I think it's more or less the same. I'm using it differently perhaps, but it should be the same color. I know it matters hehe. I also know how epic and make-or-break double is, that's why I'm saving it for last. It's going to be something special.
I might contact Hugh but probably not for a while, and maybe not until the map is nearing completion.
It also seems that the locations blend in more with the general map style than in earlier shots.
Good job, fmpwn!
THanks for all the feedback, you noticed some things that i'm shocked anyone would see.
Thanks everybody for the kind words and crit
Thanks everybody for the kind words and crit<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm probably too nit picky, and its difficult to see how it really looks from static screenshots vs. ingame walking around. So it may look just fine anyways, so take my feedback with a grain of sand and go with what feels right to you :D As far as that shot from east junction > c12 area, I like has those cubby hole things in the wall for skulks to hide in, and the look with the pinkish lighting. It reminds me of the original there. I think the point of critique was the texture (?) or the way the light plays on the inside of those that looks weird. I think its from a light shining through grating pointing at that wall.
I'm assuming the summit screen is just a place holder.
Are we going to see some cool data or animated doohickeys like what you've done in Topographical? that'd be sweet
I'm assuming the summit screen is just a place holder.
Are we going to see some cool data or animated doohickeys like what you've done in Topographical? that'd be sweet<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You bet
Virtual space and real life spaces are getting more and more different. The experience in reality is tied to so many minute details that are not expressed but felt. Something that a virtual world cannot give, as it is only an appearance. Therefore appearances have gone over the top in recent video games, to enrich the experience in a virtual way. In architecture we tend to move in the opposite direction to create space than from video game design.
I have to admit I haven't really played a modern fps since... something like COD3 (the WW2 version not MW!) because things have just been the same in the genre for me (franchises +1, +1, +1). But I wanted to add a bit more 2011 feel to turtle to some degree so I just took on Metro 2033 (btw which I love! having lived in Moscow, and having used their metro many times also adds to my experience!), all this to understand what is done in the industry in this time.
Anyway, these screens are very inspiring to me. To a degree, I find your screens don't look virtual, science fiction yes, but I lose the sens of the construction method of each space. I could copy and replicate them because I map and know how to build things using the editor, but what I'm saying is you can't really tell this came out of an 3d editor. Yet you achieved this in a way that would be unthinkable for real life construction ( I love paradoxes! :p ). Rest assured I'm not going to copy your ways for the nature of the spaces in veil and turtle are very different anyway :p but I love what you have done.
Keep up the good work! :D
Virtual space and real life spaces are getting more and more different. The experience in reality is tied to so many minute details that are not expressed but felt. Something that a virtual world cannot give, as it is only an appearance. Therefore appearances have gone over the top in recent video games, to enrich the experience in a virtual way. In architecture we tend to move in the opposite direction to create space than from video game design.
I have to admit I haven't really played a modern fps since... something like COD3 (the WW2 version not MW!) because things have just been the same in the genre for me (franchises +1, +1, +1). But I wanted to add a bit more 2011 feel to turtle to some degree so I just took on Metro 2033 (btw which I love! having lived in Moscow, and having used their metro many times also adds to my experience!), all this to understand what is done in the industry in this time.
Anyway, these screens are very inspiring to me. To a degree, I find your screens don't look virtual, science fiction yes, but I lose the sens of the construction method of each space. I could copy and replicate them because I map and know how to build things using the editor, but what I'm saying is you can't really tell this came out of an 3d editor. Yet you achieved this in a way that would be unthinkable for real life construction ( I love paradoxes! :p ). Rest assured I'm not going to copy your ways for the nature of the spaces in veil and turtle are very different anyway :p but I love what you have done.
Keep up the good work! :D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats a very thoughtful post. I know what you're saying about the surfaces. Its a problem I struggle with, with every new room I make. Don't make the mistake of thinking this is some natural ability of mine or anyone else, it takes work and good ideas to make a surface interesting. Veil 1 from NS1 gave me most of the good ideas, it was just incumbent on me to do something with the established "canvas" of the NS1 geometry. That was a huge handicap for this map. A new map I make might not go as well, because I don't have the raw geometry that Andrew Weldon provided me with as a blueprint when he made ns_veil.
With regard to specific techniques, I've been doing this a long time. Sometimes when I see your screenshots I can tell you know how to map, but you might not know how to construct a visually great screenshot. It takes experience looking at great maps. That's where you should start, not from real life.
I want get hit with a pie in the face every time I walk into sub sector. Also lasers shooting everywhere and looping guitar solos. Make it so.
might as weal ask for a gorge in a clown suit with thumbs and likes to call you mommy. rofl
<img src="http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/3236/newveil7.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/4945/newveil2.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/4748/newveil3.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/8417/newveil4.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/1072/newveil5.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/455/newveil6.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I particularly like the use of the red/black in the second picture.
That node placement looks a bit iffy in pic #6. What about moving it up to the area where the steps are, underneath the vent opening?
My whole philosophy on that is, if it ain't broke, why fix it; why reinvent the wheel; give the people what they want; do what works.