Hive teleport and Res for Kill
countbasie
Join Date: 2008-12-27 Member: 65884Members
Join Date: 2008-12-27 Member: 65884Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Two things missing and strongly needed</div>In 90% of every competitive game I watch three things happen:
-a lonely marine kills hive RTS, eggs and/or upgrades without the alien team being able to react fast enough
-it relies on the luck of the alien team if a hiverush can be stopped. Either the aliens spawn in the right hive/most of the team is close to it or it will die.
-alien play is really not dynamic, everyone is just waiting for res, most of the time playing as skulk. With RFK it would be way more exciting for both sides.
Everything applies on public play as well. I just watched some streams because I wanted to find out if it's a pub problem. It's not.
Both, Hive teleport and RFK, would make the game much more dynamic and exciting and would lead to epic battles more often. It is plain boring to wait for the resources, there's no direct reward for playing good.
Right?
EDIT: I'm talking about personal RFK. I mean it doesn't even have to be kills to gain res with. Make it for welding or assist kills or whatever. Or both. A FPS with buyable stuff needs the opportunity to get the stuff faster. Every FPS does that, and they do it with a reason.
-a lonely marine kills hive RTS, eggs and/or upgrades without the alien team being able to react fast enough
-it relies on the luck of the alien team if a hiverush can be stopped. Either the aliens spawn in the right hive/most of the team is close to it or it will die.
-alien play is really not dynamic, everyone is just waiting for res, most of the time playing as skulk. With RFK it would be way more exciting for both sides.
Everything applies on public play as well. I just watched some streams because I wanted to find out if it's a pub problem. It's not.
Both, Hive teleport and RFK, would make the game much more dynamic and exciting and would lead to epic battles more often. It is plain boring to wait for the resources, there's no direct reward for playing good.
Right?
EDIT: I'm talking about personal RFK. I mean it doesn't even have to be kills to gain res with. Make it for welding or assist kills or whatever. Or both. A FPS with buyable stuff needs the opportunity to get the stuff faster. Every FPS does that, and they do it with a reason.
Comments
Pretty sure the devs has stated time and time again that res for kill does not fit within NS2 and that they will not add it
What are their reasons? It fits perfectly within NS2.
There's still the problem of single marines killing stuff in the base. It shouldn't be that easy. It's the alien's base. Marines have beacon for that.
In NS1 it was a chance between 1 and 3 i think. It made a lot.
That's a solid point.
The only reasoning I can remember them not having teleportation was because of Celerity apparently being "enough" to warrant teleportation unnecessary.
As for as buying time for the Kharaa to come back to their hive, I've witnessed and have practiced using clogs around the upgrades as a means of extra protection.
I do think your point of Marines having beacon whereas, Aliens do not have teleportation is a very good point. I've seen countless times where the Kharaa upgrades are being chopped down while people are away.
Considering the Kharaa upgrades are more vulnerable than the TSF Arms Lab, the importance of Hive teleportation really feels necessary to address.
As far as RFK, I rather not see that coming back to haunt this game as it did when Marines were turtling.
But if there was an acceptable form of it, I'd rather see it increase Personal res rather than Team Res, as to avoid turtle games.
The only reasoning I can remember them not having teleportation was because of Celerity apparently being "enough" to warrant teleportation unnecessary.
(...)
But if there was an acceptable form of it, I'd rather see it increase Personal res rather than Team Res, as to avoid turtle games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, they made celerity something really fast, but not usable in battles for exactly that purpose. They changed it back, but never came up with another idea to adress the problem.
With RFK I only mean personal res. It is common in <i>any</i> first person shooter where you can buy stuff to get rewarded for kills. And there's a reason for that.
And when the alien team is alive and trying to get an area? When marines try that aliens can counter with a base rush. Marines can beacon then, marine push is stopped. When aliens try push something on the other side of the map, marines can easily kill their hive by setting up a PG. When aliens reach with their onos, the hive is at 20% maximum. It's always the same.
And that is how it was implemented in NS2 earlier as well. Which made PRes overflow massively.
If RFK was reimplemented, it should only be 1 PRes per kill. No random gains.
This^
Waiting till the marines are in your hive popping your eggs means your too late. Being able to position yourself by choosing spawn location helps ensure that you can prevent this in the first, making it so you never need hive teleport.
If RFK was reimplemented, it should only be 1 PRes per kill. No random gains.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, because of two problems:
Too high starting Res and no adjustments on the Pres-flow.
Yes, it would be cool, but not solving the hive rush problem. Do we want only skulks to fight high teched marines fast enough?
Seriously? If thats true its just stupid. Mobility that demands that someone have to die. hmm.
We're talking about those who are already alive to give them the means to efficiently counter a Hive assault/infiltrator.
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><i>*game is feature locked</i><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Hive teleporting is probably not needed with the current celerity and maps.
Also, all RFK did in NS1 was let Marines turtle on a hive and tech up. Good riddance. Want res? Get RTs.
Let's call it balance adjustments then.
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=Onii-chan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Onii-chan)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Random 1-3 RFK was a terrible mechanic, good riddance.
Hive teleporting is probably not needed with the current celerity and maps.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
-I'm not talking about implementing random RFK.
-Probably? Multiple people in this thread <i>reasoned</i> the opposite.
We're talking about those who are already alive to give them the means to efficiently counter a Hive assault/infiltrator.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I guess I like that marines can catch aliens out of position. The issue I have is proper spawn location choosing is the way many other FPS and FPS/RTS games/mod counter this issue.
There were no Pres in NS1.
I think nobody proved me, and the others who think the same, wrong yet.
Aliens drop a second hive and the marines put a pg up outside, suddenly the marines travel to alien hive at 3 times the speed of aliens. How do you defend that? Even if you kill the marines they spawn back into your location and when you die you have to run back. Or are you saying aliens only viable tech route is shift and they just need to delay their hive drop by 30 res every game?
Fair enuf, new George stuff is balancing. I'll try and convince the devs. Or we could of course go the boring route and have it Hive Mind researchable on shifts and use that structure instead. I was just thinking out loud with making the George a bit more interesting, what with the Hive Mind stealing all his stuff :P
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><i>*game is feature locked</i><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Great idea ! maybe make alien comm to research it as ability for gorge.
Yeah, could be cool for the Gorge. Then again, I don't even considered it being researchable, but given to the aliens all the time.
Maybe Hive teleport could be standard and the gorge could drop additional teleport-stations?
Too high starting Res and no adjustments on the Pres-flow.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree with you.
It was mainly because of the randomness of 1-3 res.
If it would have been 1 res every time. The problem would be gone.
Also, the current starting PRes is really bad for aliens.
Basicly the only thing 20 starting pres does is delay the lerks massively.
It doesn't delay anything for marines, which is a large reason why lerks are massively underpowered.
They simply come out too late with the low starting pres and no RFK.