Yea honestly I have no idea who you are, nor of your 'NS1' career. You may want to choose your words carefully, people may be using new accounts/whatever and if you truly are an old NS1 player, you might not even know who they are anymore.
<!--coloro:#FFC0CB--><span style="color:#FFC0CB"><!--/coloro-->These teams have been playing competitive matches all throughout the beta and know this game inside-out. To discount their opinion based on whether or not they played the original is ridiculous.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Who they are has nothing to do with letting an alien team get 3 hives. It's not hard to sneak in and get power + phase up and usher your team to phase through and take it out. I've been doing it in pubs for years in NS1 and NS2 isn't much harder.
edit; Look, you guys obviously never played NS1. I understand that you don't appreciate just how "soft" ns2 players are. This game doesn't take skill apart from basic aiming skills, where NS1 had scaling jumping speeds, bunnyhopping, dodging, finer mechanics, scripting, a decent marine melee weapon and more.
Although dumbing-down games has been all the rage for the last 10 years and made CoD and Battlefield popular, UWE never did it to NS1 and that is part of it's popularity.
They HAVE done it quite a bit to NS2 and while it's dissapointing, i'm thinking it might have been a wise move for now since the engine isn't exactly 100% reliable. It'd be catastrophic for example, for a bunnyhopping bug to occur and suddenly you see 200kph skulks.
In a pub sure, in a comp 6v6 game your generally going to notice when 20% of the enemies fighting force is suddenly 'missing', especially when playing at a higher level.
And I dont see how the argument of preventing the ability at all justifies the fact that the effect is too bright (umbra), or just over the top on size/particles (mist, jetpack dust).
And for not playing NS1, I can assure you that ive played my fair share of NS1, and anything beyond that is irrelevant.
<!--coloro:#FFC0CB--><span style="color:#FFC0CB"><!--/coloro-->Umbra is not the only effect being discussed here so your "three hives" argument is completely irrelevant. Mist has no requirements. Jetpacks are a marine tech item which cause problems for the marines who use them. Gorge spit obscures vision, as does bile bomb which is a 2nd hive ability.
Edit: Actually I did play NS1, and I'm well aware of games being dumbed down in the past decade. You assume too much. And umbra being 90% of the issue is a gross exaggeration.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--quoteo(post=2036281:date=Nov 28 2012, 02:25 PM:name=Kallistrate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kallistrate @ Nov 28 2012, 02:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2036281"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--coloro:#FFC0CB--><span style="color:#FFC0CB"><!--/coloro-->Umbra is not the only effect being discussed here so your "three hives" argument is completely irrelevant. Mist has no requirements. Jetpacks are a marine tech item which cause problems for the marines who use them. Gorge spit obscures vision, as does bile bomb which is a 2nd hive ability.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Umbra however, IS 90% of the issue. It's misleading to say it's irrelevant discussing it, when it's 90% of the issue.
Umbra is not, its simple an example of one of the many screen obscuring mechanics in this game that really are not needed, or atleast needed at the level they are at...
Only valid point you could/should be making about the 3rd hive is that generally in a comp game the third hive is never really dropped, or if it is the game is already over... but as stated before, umbra is not the only topic.
Judging by your attitude about a game played in the ENSL against most likely an equally new team, I dont see how anything from that game could be used to reflect upon true competitive games in NS2 at a high level.
@Eh? Pretty much. People have to learn to deal with the consequences of their actions and stop being so lazy that they need games dumbed-down just so they can enjoy them.
@xDragon, exactly. It doesn't happen in a decent competitive match, so it's not a balance issue. It's a safeguard to ensure that bad marines end up losing. It's there to ensure the game is overwhelmingly stacked in aliens' favour for the end-game. If you don't like that, then people shouldn't be letting aliens get 3 hives it's that simple.
@The rest of this thread; Specifically on the topic of NS1 relevance.
This game has been exorbitantly "Dumbed-down" already. Skulks no longer gain up to 100kph while bunnyhopping. They don't get an energy regen increase from movement chambers or adrenaline. They are already massively nerfed, almost to the point of oblivion in terms of NS1 capabilities. Several areas of the game have also been nerfed, which results in an overall lower skill ceiling to the game.
Have you ever seen a good public or scrim of NS1? The play style is akin to seeing some of the greatest fights in recorded history, like Goku vs Cell, Naruto vs whoever, Ichigo from bleach vs whoever not to mention real fights like muhammad ali vs whoever.
Seeing a NS1 vet vs average pub players was overwhelmingly one-sided just like those fights. I once LAN'd against a few customers while working at my net cafe years ago, because they wanted to see just what it takes to be a good skulk. They weren't bad shots, they did fine in CS etc and had played a bit shy of 100 hours or so of NS. It was so one-sided that i went 205 kills 3 deaths with just celerity, leap, carapace and regen in faceoff in 20 minutes, me vs 3 marines.
NS2 has already had it's skill cap nerfed into the ground, you should be thankful vets don't still have that higher ceiling there to provide such overwhelmingly one-sided fights. Whinging about a bit of vision obscurity when aliens have 3 hives on top of that is outright pathetic.
So really, don't be surprised if you're treated with contempt for asking for simpler gameplay / more nerfs to NS2 gameplay.
In ns1 vets it inspires the whole "######, Please...." reaction. That's right, ######, Please....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDlYCjhkq_A I'll say it again; ######, Please....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7I1YaTNIvI
I dont think the majority of this is focused around a balance issue... And as for the rest of your post its completely meaningless, there are plenty of people around here that could do that in NS1, to think your something special or whatever your thinking with that kind of superiority complex you've got going on, is pretty retarded.
What part of that comes accross as me thinking i'm "Something special" ? Now you're just transitioning from "Entitled new######" to "troll" as you find every argument you have invalidated by the raw fact that what you WANT is not how NS and NS2 are INTENDED.
Considering how you have talked down to pretty much all the sensible posters in this thread... I dont really think I need to explain my response, nor do I need to explain why just because something is balanced or isnt seen in every single game means that it shouldnt be changed.
<!--quoteo(post=2036295:date=Nov 28 2012, 02:19 PM:name=purephoenix)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (purephoenix @ Nov 28 2012, 02:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2036295"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...They don't get an energy regen increase from movement chambers...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--coloro:#FFC0CB--><span style="color:#FFC0CB"><!--/coloro-->Incorrect. While adrenaline was changed intentionally to prevent gorge perma-healing, the MCs (shifts) do in fact still restore energy. Try playing the game a bit more.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...Whinging about a bit of vision obscurity when aliens have 3 hives on top of that is outright pathetic...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--coloro:#FFC0CB--><span style="color:#FFC0CB"><!--/coloro-->And again you miss the point. This is not solely about umbra, and if you cannot grasp that simple fact then there is no point arguing with you any further.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Wow, current generation gamers really are brain dead. Immah go over this REALLY simply so you'll all hopefully understand it.
Umbra is MEANT to be this vision obscuring. UWE intended it that way. A great way to compare it to real life would be education; You pass school, go to uni and get a nice paying, comfortable job if you pick the right employer. If you don't put the effort in, then you fail uni, find it hard to get a job, you get paid less and generally enjoy life less.
NS is the same in that if you PUT THE EFFORT IN, the game rewards you by unlocking abilities that make your job easier. If you DON'T put the effort in, then the ENEMY team gets the easy mode win and secures it through overwhelming superiority in terms of power balance.
That's right, the power imbalance is INTENTIONAL. It's there to ensure a team can actually END a game before the hour timer comes along.
Asking to have umbra changed means you're asking for some of that power imbalance to be lessened. It's just not going to happen, <u><b>because it was intentionally put there.</b></u>
edit; yes this applies to 2 res-per-cast Nutrient mist. There's easily 30 mists there, a whopping 9 odd res towers required to sustain that.
So the umbra effect stacking is intentional? Did you call up Charlie and confirm that with him? I have never seen to date a single shred of evidence that would support the claim that umbra is supposed to impair vision like spores. What seems much more likely is that the effect was created to visually look good, but was not tested to see how it stacks, which currently gets extremely bright and visually impairing.
And the 30 mists comment is just lol, I suppose the jetpack also takes like 15 simultaneous takeoffs?
As said before you have absolutely no idea what your talking about in this thread, this has nothing to do with game balance, endgame play, the game rewarding you for being skilled, or anything that you have posted to date. Also, if you were truly observant, you would see that I've posted in other threads about the skill depth and how its lacking in NS2 compared to NS1, which is a completely different topic.
Yup. Sure does. That's the way it was in NS1 and it was balanced. Got Problem? Nobody cares.
edit; wow i'm seriously losing faith in the human race here. People cannot seriously be this dumb, you've got to be trolling here. Oh wait, it was a troll thread to begin with so it logically follows that everyone supporting the OP is also, trolling.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As said before you have absolutely no idea what your talking about in this thread<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You keep saying that as if you're not in outright denial of the fact that i'm actually right.
Yes, the most skilled commander in the Aus/Asia region from NS1 and member of two of the oldest NS1/2 clans in the world, is a "Nobody".
Right. You just proved me 100% right on the troll claims. I'm not bothering any more because to be frank, the trolling in this thread is just sub-human levels of retardedly poor. Obvious trolls are obvious.
What does all this talk about competitive players have to do with this discussion? This is a case where being considered good holds absolutely no weight.
Firstly, as we have heard, competitive players all turn atmospherics and the like off immediately when they start playing. HEY LETS RESPECT THEIR OPINION RELATING TO IN GAME IMMERSION EFFECTS. Grow a brain sheeple.
Secondly, the other side of this discussion is <b>usability</b>. Are the effects too much? Does it block vision and make the game confusing? Does it detriment ease of use? Guess who the last group of people you consult on the topic of usability are. That's right, the people considered professionals. The people to whom usability means nothing.
Please, use some intelligence people. Hit Reg issues? Sure, lets get the opinion of some really good aimers. Balance issues? Ok, maybe some players at the cutting edge of balance exploitation will know what they are talking about. In game immersion effects and vision obscuration? PLAYERS WITH SUB 80% ACCURACY WITH NO COMPETITIVE EXPERIENCE NEED NOT APPLY GUISE.
Amusing how you can disregard some of the top players from other areas, just because you are not aware of who they are, but once someone discredits you its a sin... Just gonna ignore the retardism there going forward.
Does anyone actually think/see a reason for umbra to look the way it does in NS2? Does it really help you get that much more immersed in the game?
I'm immersed in this alternate reality where purephoenix's posts don't just come across as a vivid satire of other forum regulars like imbalanxed and temphage.
<!--quoteo(post=2036329:date=Nov 28 2012, 07:08 AM:name=eh?)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (eh? @ Nov 28 2012, 07:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2036329"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm immersed in this alternate reality where purephoenix's posts don't just come across as a vivid satire of other forum regulars like imbalanxed and temphage.
###### is unreal.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--coloro:#FFC0CB--><span style="color:#FFC0CB"><!--/coloro-->Haha, good comparison pic there xDragon. But clearly it was INTENDED to blind aliens.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--quoteo(post=2036322:date=Nov 27 2012, 08:59 PM:name=purephoenix)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (purephoenix @ Nov 27 2012, 08:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2036322"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes, the most skilled commander in the Aus/Asia region from NS1 and member of two of the oldest NS1/2 clans in the world, is a "Nobody".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In game name, clan tag and steam id plz... I am having trouble believing this.
I followed competitive ns1 for years, admittedly mostly in the NA. you make it seem like I should recognize your name like I do for planers like mustang, civilian, pain-user, or fana.
Comments
"Veteran competitive NS2 players" don't exist. Fact.
It's not hard to sneak in and get power + phase up and usher your team to phase through and take it out.
I've been doing it in pubs for years in NS1 and NS2 isn't much harder.
edit; Look, you guys obviously never played NS1. I understand that you don't appreciate just how "soft" ns2 players are. This game doesn't take skill apart from basic aiming skills, where NS1 had scaling jumping speeds, bunnyhopping, dodging, finer mechanics, scripting, a decent marine melee weapon and more.
Although dumbing-down games has been all the rage for the last 10 years and made CoD and Battlefield popular, UWE never did it to NS1 and that is part of it's popularity.
They HAVE done it quite a bit to NS2 and while it's dissapointing, i'm thinking it might have been a wise move for now since the engine isn't exactly 100% reliable. It'd be catastrophic for example, for a bunnyhopping bug to occur and suddenly you see 200kph skulks.
And I dont see how the argument of preventing the ability at all justifies the fact that the effect is too bright (umbra), or just over the top on size/particles (mist, jetpack dust).
And for not playing NS1, I can assure you that ive played my fair share of NS1, and anything beyond that is irrelevant.
Edit: Actually I did play NS1, and I'm well aware of games being dumbed down in the past decade. You assume too much. And umbra being 90% of the issue is a gross exaggeration.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Sure we're out of practice, but just saying; Even in competitive against a worse team, you should still be hard pressed to get 3 hives.
Umbra however, IS 90% of the issue. It's misleading to say it's irrelevant discussing it, when it's 90% of the issue.
Only valid point you could/should be making about the 3rd hive is that generally in a comp game the third hive is never really dropped, or if it is the game is already over... but as stated before, umbra is not the only topic.
Judging by your attitude about a game played in the ENSL against most likely an equally new team, I dont see how anything from that game could be used to reflect upon true competitive games in NS2 at a high level.
@xDragon, exactly. It doesn't happen in a decent competitive match, so it's not a balance issue. It's a safeguard to ensure that bad marines end up losing. It's there to ensure the game is overwhelmingly stacked in aliens' favour for the end-game. If you don't like that, then people shouldn't be letting aliens get 3 hives it's that simple.
@The rest of this thread; Specifically on the topic of NS1 relevance.
This game has been exorbitantly "Dumbed-down" already. Skulks no longer gain up to 100kph while bunnyhopping. They don't get an energy regen increase from movement chambers or adrenaline. They are already massively nerfed, almost to the point of oblivion in terms of NS1 capabilities. Several areas of the game have also been nerfed, which results in an overall lower skill ceiling to the game.
Have you ever seen a good public or scrim of NS1? The play style is akin to seeing some of the greatest fights in recorded history, like Goku vs Cell, Naruto vs whoever, Ichigo from bleach vs whoever not to mention real fights like muhammad ali vs whoever.
Seeing a NS1 vet vs average pub players was overwhelmingly one-sided just like those fights. I once LAN'd against a few customers while working at my net cafe years ago, because they wanted to see just what it takes to be a good skulk. They weren't bad shots, they did fine in CS etc and had played a bit shy of 100 hours or so of NS. It was so one-sided that i went 205 kills 3 deaths with just celerity, leap, carapace and regen in faceoff in 20 minutes, me vs 3 marines.
NS2 has already had it's skill cap nerfed into the ground, you should be thankful vets don't still have that higher ceiling there to provide such overwhelmingly one-sided fights. Whinging about a bit of vision obscurity when aliens have 3 hives on top of that is outright pathetic.
So really, don't be surprised if you're treated with contempt for asking for simpler gameplay / more nerfs to NS2 gameplay.
In ns1 vets it inspires the whole "######, Please...." reaction.
That's right, ######, Please....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDlYCjhkq_A
I'll say it again; ######, Please....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7I1YaTNIvI
Now you're just transitioning from "Entitled new######" to "troll" as you find every argument you have invalidated by the raw fact that what you WANT is not how NS and NS2 are INTENDED.
Riiiiight.
You are clearly the retard here. See above post regarding "Entitled new######s".
What part of "X is difficult to achieve therefore Y should be visually atrocious" holds any logical merit in your mind.
Please don't hesitate to break it down for me.
<!--coloro:#FFC0CB--><span style="color:#FFC0CB"><!--/coloro-->Incorrect. While adrenaline was changed intentionally to prevent gorge perma-healing, the MCs (shifts) do in fact still restore energy. Try playing the game a bit more.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...Whinging about a bit of vision obscurity when aliens have 3 hives on top of that is outright pathetic...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--coloro:#FFC0CB--><span style="color:#FFC0CB"><!--/coloro-->And again you miss the point. This is not solely about umbra, and if you cannot grasp that simple fact then there is no point arguing with you any further.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Umbra is MEANT to be this vision obscuring. UWE intended it that way. A great way to compare it to real life would be education; You pass school, go to uni and get a nice paying, comfortable job if you pick the right employer. If you don't put the effort in, then you fail uni, find it hard to get a job, you get paid less and generally enjoy life less.
NS is the same in that if you PUT THE EFFORT IN, the game rewards you by unlocking abilities that make your job easier. If you DON'T put the effort in, then the ENEMY team gets the easy mode win and secures it through overwhelming superiority in terms of power balance.
That's right, the power imbalance is INTENTIONAL. It's there to ensure a team can actually END a game before the hour timer comes along.
Asking to have umbra changed means you're asking for some of that power imbalance to be lessened.
It's just not going to happen, <u><b>because it was intentionally put there.</b></u>
edit; yes this applies to 2 res-per-cast Nutrient mist. There's easily 30 mists there, a whopping 9 odd res towers required to sustain that.
And the 30 mists comment is just lol, I suppose the jetpack also takes like 15 simultaneous takeoffs?
As said before you have absolutely no idea what your talking about in this thread, this has nothing to do with game balance, endgame play, the game rewarding you for being skilled, or anything that you have posted to date. Also, if you were truly observant, you would see that I've posted in other threads about the skill depth and how its lacking in NS2 compared to NS1, which is a completely different topic.
Got Problem? Nobody cares.
edit; wow i'm seriously losing faith in the human race here. People cannot seriously be this dumb, you've got to be trolling here. Oh wait, it was a troll thread to begin with so it logically follows that everyone supporting the OP is also, trolling.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As said before you have absolutely no idea what your talking about in this thread<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You keep saying that as if you're not in outright denial of the fact that i'm actually right.
Right. You just proved me 100% right on the troll claims. I'm not bothering any more because to be frank, the trolling in this thread is just sub-human levels of retardedly poor. Obvious trolls are obvious.
Firstly, as we have heard, competitive players all turn atmospherics and the like off immediately when they start playing. HEY LETS RESPECT THEIR OPINION RELATING TO IN GAME IMMERSION EFFECTS. Grow a brain sheeple.
Secondly, the other side of this discussion is <b>usability</b>. Are the effects too much? Does it block vision and make the game confusing? Does it detriment ease of use? Guess who the last group of people you consult on the topic of usability are. That's right, the people considered professionals. The people to whom usability means nothing.
Please, use some intelligence people. Hit Reg issues? Sure, lets get the opinion of some really good aimers. Balance issues? Ok, maybe some players at the cutting edge of balance exploitation will know what they are talking about. In game immersion effects and vision obscuration? PLAYERS WITH SUB 80% ACCURACY WITH NO COMPETITIVE EXPERIENCE NEED NOT APPLY GUISE.
Does anyone actually think/see a reason for umbra to look the way it does in NS2? Does it really help you get that much more immersed in the game?
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/oFJgP.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
###### is unreal.
###### is unreal.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Satired? I just woke up!
In game name, clan tag and steam id plz... I am having trouble believing this.
I followed competitive ns1 for years, admittedly mostly in the NA. you make it seem like I should recognize your name like I do for planers like mustang, civilian, pain-user, or fana.
As far as I can see your join date is in 2012?