AurOn2COOKIES! FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS!AustraliaJoin Date: 2012-01-13Member: 140224Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff
how about we entirely change the way the 'sentry' dynamic works? Let's take suggestion 3 from al_ka_pwn but change things around. Firstly, let's treat it like a weapon, you use it, you reload it, you re-ammunize it. You can pick them up, put them down, turn them on, they have say 200 rounds before you have to reload them and reammunize them when they run out, you can only hold 1 at a time but you can have as many as you can afford, given the fact that you can't just spam them forever, they will run out and you can only carry one at a time? so they will only ever bee effective for long periods of time with a person supervising them and an armory or plenty of commander support (one ammo pack, 25 rounds?) and you can't pull out anything but the sentry with the sentry equipped? It could become like a third arm which is very needy but very useful?
<!--quoteo(post=2063986:date=Jan 20 2013, 07:06 PM:name=MrChoke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MrChoke @ Jan 20 2013, 07:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2063986"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ahhh, Mr. Troll is back. Good. Get a life. I am trying to make the game better, unlike you, sitting on your dead a$$ trolling the forum.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> 1. It takes 5 seconds out of my day to "troll" you. My life is fine.
2. You don't know whether or not I try to make the game better. You know nothing about me.
3. You aren't trying to make the game better. You're trying to have a "discussion" (laughable) about Sentries and Aliens over powered, but you want to have this discussion without 75% of the dialogue. The "learn to play" part of it. It's like saying "I want to solve the homeless problem, but lets not talk about mental health issues." That's not how it works, sadly. You can't cherry pick topics of discussion or focus points in such a broad topic.
Anyone saying "learn to play" you can go ahead and chalk their vote up to removing sentries. They're either feeling: they'd never be balanced, never have an appropriate place or would never fit the design of the game. There is no reason to get 'angsty' over the view that you need to learn to play so you can realize how worthless sentries are. That may not be how that sentiment is expressed every time, but it's the underlying idea.
<ul><li>Marines need electrified res towers - enough to deter early-game skulks</li><li>Marine turrets need a slight buff / wider radius of placement</li><li>Marines need power packs for *one* structure</li></ul>
If you played ns1, you would know that electrifying restowers in early game was almost as expensive as building turrets and generally a waste of res that lead to a lost game. In ns2 you have powernodes on top of that (an easy way to disable the electrify), so electrify would turn out as bad as sentries are currently.
Instead of buffing turrets i would rather make them cheaper and remove the battery altogether. I find the idea of marines carrying around turrets interesting. Typically, if you have a 6 marine squad advancing towards a hive, 1 or 2 cannot actually hit aliens because their buddys block their line of sight. So you give them turrets to carry over, set up a bridgehead in enemy territory to actually enable pulling off a planned assault on a hive. The whole nano tech is actually detrimental in that aspect, as it needs so much time to set up compared to just marching in there with prepared equipment.
Turrets shouldn't get any HP buff, but it should be possible indeed to place them slightly further away from the Battey. They are way too vulnerable in their current form, especially to Bile Bombs that take out all Turrets and the Battery at once.
Maybe a cost decrease for the Turrets would help too. Bring them down to 3 res per Sentry, equivalent to Gorges with 3 pres per Hydra. It would make Sentries actually more affordable at the time of the game where they are not useless.
<!--quoteo(post=2064139:date=Jan 21 2013, 06:40 AM:name=bERt0r)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bERt0r @ Jan 21 2013, 06:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2064139"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you played ns1, you would know that electrifying restowers in early game was almost as expensive as building turrets and generally a waste of res that lead to a lost game. In ns2 you have powernodes on top of that (an easy way to disable the electrify), so electrify would turn out as bad as sentries are currently.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Man, you are so right, I wanted electrify back, but with this powernode nonsense, it makes no sense. unless you can electrify the power node too! it should be easy to do, strip a cable and tie it to the outside, making contact witht he metal.
Boom, instant killing shock if an alien touches it!
<!--quoteo(post=2063207:date=Jan 19 2013, 09:10 AM:name=Savant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Savant @ Jan 19 2013, 09:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2063207"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The biggest problem with sentries is that when you need them (very beginning of game) you can't afford them, but when you can afford them the aliens have lerks and gorges who take them out like they're nothing. No - sentries are not the answer.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Would removing the requirement to have a robo factory make sentries more useful early game? They'd still be expensive, but perhaps worthwhile for defending a lonely res node before the aliens get bile bomb. If the purpose of sentries is to fend off a skulk early game, and be basically useless later, then why shouldn't they be relatively easy to get?
I don't play many competitive games, but does anyone need a robo factory early game? Seems like a waste of res just to build some throwaway sentries.
<!--quoteo(post=2064206:date=Jan 21 2013, 06:07 AM:name=Rumsey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rumsey @ Jan 21 2013, 06:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2064206"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Would removing the requirement to have a robo factory make sentries more useful early game? They'd still be expensive, but perhaps worthwhile for defending a lonely res node before the aliens get bile bomb. If the purpose of sentries is to fend off a skulk early game, and be basically useless later, then why shouldn't they be relatively easy to get?
I don't play many competitive games, but does anyone need a robo factory early game? Seems like a waste of res just to build some throwaway sentries.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you want to create a mod its really simple. the files you'll be looking for are BalanceHealth.lua and BalanceMisc.lua Open them in Notepad (preferrably Notepad++) and ctrl+F for terms relating to sentrys. for instance Battery, Sentry, etc etc. You will find stuff. its all based on numbers so either raise or lower the numbers to get a good feel for it. NEVER edit original files. Create a new folder and create copies of the lua files in that folder, THEN edit it. and you will need Launchpad (in Natural Selection 2 Folder) for publishing. Just create a mod and set the dir to where you saved your files. and click the publish button and be amazed. :P
<!--quoteo(post=2064093:date=Jan 21 2013, 02:38 AM:name=Omar - The Wire)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Omar - The Wire @ Jan 21 2013, 02:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2064093"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1. It takes 5 seconds out of my day to "troll" you. My life is fine.
2. You don't know whether or not I try to make the game better. You know nothing about me.
3. You aren't trying to make the game better. You're trying to have a "discussion" (laughable) about Sentries and Aliens over powered, but you want to have this discussion without 75% of the dialogue. The "learn to play" part of it. It's like saying "I want to solve the homeless problem, but lets not talk about mental health issues." That's not how it works, sadly. You can't cherry pick topics of discussion or focus points in such a broad topic.
Anyone saying "learn to play" you can go ahead and chalk their vote up to removing sentries. They're either feeling: they'd never be balanced, never have an appropriate place or would never fit the design of the game. There is no reason to get 'angsty' over the view that you need to learn to play so you can realize how worthless sentries are. That may not be how that sentiment is expressed every time, but it's the underlying idea.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Alright, some intelligent dialog. I know there are L2P factors that affect the win/loss ratio, a huge number of them. But what if the skill and teamwork required for one team to win drastically outweigh the skill and teamwork required for the other team to win? In context, marines need to L2P much better than aliens in order to acheive a 50/50 win ratio. This is a balance argument, is it not? To achieve a 50/50 ratio given the imbalance in L2P skills means that everyone who plays this game needs to improve their marine skills and teamwork to a near perfection level. That is not acheieveable in any public gaming community. In addition, if you look at the "competitive" games, the "more advanced" players I assume of NS2, It is even LESS achieveable with that community.
This post was trying to gather ideas and suggestions on how to make the "L2P" of marines easier so they win more. I did not want it to be an argumnet on the 50 zillion ways marines can fail to L2P and lose.
I suggested sentries as idea for imporvement. I did this for two reasons.
1) They currently SUCK and add little value for the res cost required to have them.
2) To modify behavior of them seems quite moddable in the LUA files. I wanted to consider a mod and not have to learn thousands of lines of LUA code.
To me, sentries are not so hopelessly useless that they need to be removed form the game. They need work, that is all. I never want to go down the path of major gutting of the design, or existing concepts. Sentries are an existing concept. Fix them, don't remove them. This game needs some balance work that is all. If I thought the game had core design and concept problems that are months away from ever being corrected I would have quit this game and moved on to something else.
<!--quoteo(post=2064204:date=Jan 21 2013, 09:02 AM:name=DamDSx)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DamDSx @ Jan 21 2013, 09:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2064204"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Man, you are so right, I wanted electrify back, but with this powernode nonsense, it makes no sense. unless you can electrify the power node too! it should be easy to do, strip a cable and tie it to the outside, making contact witht he metal.
Boom, instant killing shock if an alien touches it!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Let's think outside the box a bit more. What if the extractor can be electrfied without the need for the power node?
I was brought up earlier and I actually tried to find the LUA code for this one. Can the marine comm nanoshield an extractor before he gets the 2nd chair? Its another idea and one that would be a much smaller change. Unfortuately like most, I bet its a change only UWE can make.
There is an additional problem for you to overcome, too, OP:
if you do make a mod to experiment with some of these values, how are you going to establish the effect they have on team balance? You would need a lot of players to join in, preferably on different servers and different times of day...
Incidentally, I'm *still* at almost exactly 50% win rate for this latest build. Certainly on the range of pub servers I've played on so far, this really does seem to be one of the most balanced builds so far since release. I would wait to see what the content patch brings at the end of this month before embarking on the massive mission of persuading people to join your modded game servers to test balance. I personally trust UWE to develop their game the way they want it. So far, it's been improving every build for me. At some point you may have to consider that this isn't the game you actually want it to be...?
If you want to create a mod its really simple. the files you'll be looking for are BalanceHealth.lua and BalanceMisc.lua Open them in Notepad (preferrably Notepad++) and ctrl+F for terms relating to sentrys. for instance Battery, Sentry, etc etc. You will find stuff. its all based on numbers so either raise or lower the numbers to get a good feel for it. NEVER edit original files. Create a new folder and create copies of the lua files in that folder, THEN edit it. and you will need Launchpad (in Natural Selection 2 Folder) for publishing. Just create a mod and set the dir to where you saved your files. and click the publish button and be amazed. :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, that is exactly the type of LUA changes I woould consider. Tweaking sentries seems very easy. I did not find a way to allow more than one sentry battery in a room though. Its not worth experimentation in my mind unless this can be changed. Do you know if it can?
<!--quoteo(post=2064227:date=Jan 21 2013, 10:14 AM:name=Roobubba)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Roobubba @ Jan 21 2013, 10:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2064227"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There is an additional problem for you to overcome, too, OP:
if you do make a mod to experiment with some of these values, how are you going to establish the effect they have on team balance? You would need a lot of players to join in, preferably on different servers and different times of day...
Incidentally, I'm *still* at almost exactly 50% win rate for this latest build. Certainly on the range of pub servers I've played on so far, this really does seem to be one of the most balanced builds so far since release. I would wait to see what the content patch brings at the end of this month before embarking on the massive mission of persuading people to join your modded game servers to test balance. I personally trust UWE to develop their game the way they want it. So far, it's been improving every build for me. At some point you may have to consider that this isn't the game you actually want it to be...?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, I agree, it would have to become a popular mod that most servers deploy. Or perhaps have content that is proven to be good and UWE picks it up and puts it in base game. I would probaby have to rent a server of my own as well.
Its great if you are at a 50/50 ratio. Maybe you play with a core group of people that know how to "L2P" marines very well. I am still at an 76% alien win ratio on random public servers (28 out of 39 games). NS2Stats.org, even though its a subset of servers as well, still shows aliens at 60% wins on public servers, 70% on comptetive, if you filter by builds 236 and 237. It has not gotten any better according to this.
I wish UWE would comment on if/when some more balance changes would come next patch. My disappointment with their effort in this area is apparent and why I felt the need to post this and consider a mod.
For games between equally skilled teams in NS1, we almost NEVER got electrified RTs in the early game for the same reason why most good comms don't get early sentries in NS2. They cost too much for an early marine economy, that res could be weapons/armor upgrades, advanced armory, etc.
Sentries will not solve the problem. You could make it so that marines could put down 1000 sentries with no battery packs that shoot frikkn lazers, its not going to clean up the problem with marines that spend the whole game hiding behind them and losing the map.
You don't win on defense. You don't win by automating defense. You win by shooting stuff in the face.
Sentries will not solve the problem. You could make it so that marines could put down 1000 sentries with no battery packs that shoot frikkn lazers, its not going to clean up the problem with marines that spend the whole game hiding behind them and losing the map.
You don't win on defense. You don't win by automating defense. You win by shooting stuff in the face.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In their territory. You can still shoot stuff in the face on defense :O
Sentries will not solve the problem. You could make it so that marines could put down 1000 sentries with no battery packs that shoot frikkn lazers, its not going to clean up the problem with marines that spend the whole game hiding behind them and losing the map.
You don't win on defense. You don't win by automating defense. You win by shooting stuff in the face.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You also can go shoot them in the face since you don't have to hug your base because automated defenses.
<!--quoteo(post=2064240:date=Jan 21 2013, 09:50 AM:name=Arkahm719)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arkahm719 @ Jan 21 2013, 09:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2064240"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just make mines cheaper, that will help 15 res for 3 mines is crazy i almost never buy them unless the res flow is really high.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then you're hurting your team and your usefulness to it. Mines are widely considered borderline OP at 15 res. Any less and they'd be ridiculous.
Improving AI units is not the way to balance the game. Whatever they change it should still be the marines winning the game not bots winning it for them.
I know it doesn't mean much but marines have won most of the games I have played this patch, I don't know why the statics are so different from what I am seeing.
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=2064043:date=Jan 20 2013, 09:13 PM:name=AuroN2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AuroN2 @ Jan 20 2013, 09:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2064043"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->how about we entirely change the way the 'sentry' dynamic works?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I've started to believe that the only way to salvage sentries is to switch the ARC and sentry. The sentry then becomes the mobile, deployable, marine-supporting weapon and the ARC becomes the stationary, shoots-through-walls, structure-killer (aka NS1-style). It also becomes easier for the comm to micro the sentries to provide the optimal amount of deterrence/support as the battle lines change.
<!--quoteo(post=2064376:date=Jan 21 2013, 04:06 PM:name=Omar - The Wire)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Omar - The Wire @ Jan 21 2013, 04:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2064376"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Then you're hurting your team and your usefulness to it. Mines are widely considered borderline OP at 15 res. Any less and they'd be ridiculous.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i would have to disagree with you and doubt your knowledge about the game, mines are not OP or close to it, they blow unless you wanna kill one skulk not my kinda trade off, seeing that bile bomb will waste mines a fade can just blink by and set them off etc. they have a purpose but not enough for me to waste my pres on them. I do more than my fair share of killing in that game seeing that im usually in the top 3 everytime i play with out mines
<!--quoteo(post=2064431:date=Jan 21 2013, 04:36 PM:name=Arkahm719)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arkahm719 @ Jan 21 2013, 04:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2064431"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i would have to disagree with you and doubt your knowledge about the game, mines are not OP or close to it, they blow unless you wanna kill one skulk not my kinda trade off, seeing that bile bomb will waste mines a fade can just blink by and set them off etc. they have a purpose but not enough for me to waste my pres on them. I do more than my fair share of killing in that game seeing that im usually in the top 3 everytime i play with out mines<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> He's a comp player and mines are completely ridiculous already
i'm gonna go ahead and infer that you are actually the one that's not very good
How about this: Each sentry powers a nanoshield for it's battery, reducing the damage it takes. 3 Sentries mean only 12.5% of the normal damage on the battery is taken.
It is now much better to focus the sentries (or at lease some of them), in general increase the time it takes for the nest to go down, while still makng it highly vulnerable to bile bomb.
<!--quoteo(post=2064432:date=Jan 21 2013, 05:38 PM:name=IAMKING)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IAMKING @ Jan 21 2013, 05:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2064432"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->He's a comp player and mines are completely ridiculous already
i'm gonna go ahead and infer that you are actually the one that's not very good<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ok so hes a comp player... he knows how to play comp 6v6 that really works out for the rest of us in the pubs. I know plenty about the game and play it well, been doing so since it was the first playable version. ive seen the game makes its changes the whole time.
just because you are a comp player doesnt mean anything either except you have to much free time on your hands, so dont try and use it like its some great title IAMKING
i was a comp player in tf2 years ago, and just because i was didnt make me a master of everything tf2.
Comments
Let's take suggestion 3 from al_ka_pwn but change things around.
Firstly, let's treat it like a weapon, you use it, you reload it, you re-ammunize it.
You can pick them up, put them down, turn them on, they have say 200 rounds before you have to reload them and reammunize them when they run out, you can only hold 1 at a time but you can have as many as you can afford, given the fact that you can't just spam them forever, they will run out and you can only carry one at a time? so they will only ever bee effective for long periods of time with a person supervising them and an armory or plenty of commander support (one ammo pack, 25 rounds?) and you can't pull out anything but the sentry with the sentry equipped? It could become like a third arm which is very needy but very useful?
1. It takes 5 seconds out of my day to "troll" you. My life is fine.
2. You don't know whether or not I try to make the game better. You know nothing about me.
3. You aren't trying to make the game better. You're trying to have a "discussion" (laughable) about Sentries and Aliens over powered, but you want to have this discussion without 75% of the dialogue. The "learn to play" part of it. It's like saying "I want to solve the homeless problem, but lets not talk about mental health issues." That's not how it works, sadly. You can't cherry pick topics of discussion or focus points in such a broad topic.
Anyone saying "learn to play" you can go ahead and chalk their vote up to removing sentries. They're either feeling: they'd never be balanced, never have an appropriate place or would never fit the design of the game. There is no reason to get 'angsty' over the view that you need to learn to play so you can realize how worthless sentries are. That may not be how that sentiment is expressed every time, but it's the underlying idea.
Instead of buffing turrets i would rather make them cheaper and remove the battery altogether. I find the idea of marines carrying around turrets interesting. Typically, if you have a 6 marine squad advancing towards a hive, 1 or 2 cannot actually hit aliens because their buddys block their line of sight. So you give them turrets to carry over, set up a bridgehead in enemy territory to actually enable pulling off a planned assault on a hive. The whole nano tech is actually detrimental in that aspect, as it needs so much time to set up compared to just marching in there with prepared equipment.
Maybe a cost decrease for the Turrets would help too. Bring them down to 3 res per Sentry, equivalent to Gorges with 3 pres per Hydra. It would make Sentries actually more affordable at the time of the game where they are not useless.
Man, you are so right, I wanted electrify back, but with this powernode nonsense, it makes no sense. unless you can electrify the power node too! it should be easy to do, strip a cable and tie it to the outside, making contact witht he metal.
Boom, instant killing shock if an alien touches it!
Would removing the requirement to have a robo factory make sentries more useful early game? They'd still be expensive, but perhaps worthwhile for defending a lonely res node before the aliens get bile bomb. If the purpose of sentries is to fend off a skulk early game, and be basically useless later, then why shouldn't they be relatively easy to get?
I don't play many competitive games, but does anyone need a robo factory early game? Seems like a waste of res just to build some throwaway sentries.
I don't play many competitive games, but does anyone need a robo factory early game? Seems like a waste of res just to build some throwaway sentries.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree that this is worth experimenting with.
Good response. A little light on content and intelligence. Keep 'em coming. I LIKE IT.
If you want to create a mod its really simple. the files you'll be looking for are BalanceHealth.lua and BalanceMisc.lua
Open them in Notepad (preferrably Notepad++) and ctrl+F for terms relating to sentrys. for instance Battery, Sentry, etc etc. You will find stuff. its all based on numbers so either raise or lower the numbers to get a good feel for it. NEVER edit original files. Create a new folder and create copies of the lua files in that folder, THEN edit it. and you will need Launchpad (in Natural Selection 2 Folder) for publishing. Just create a mod and set the dir to where you saved your files. and click the publish button and be amazed. :P
2. You don't know whether or not I try to make the game better. You know nothing about me.
3. You aren't trying to make the game better. You're trying to have a "discussion" (laughable) about Sentries and Aliens over powered, but you want to have this discussion without 75% of the dialogue. The "learn to play" part of it. It's like saying "I want to solve the homeless problem, but lets not talk about mental health issues." That's not how it works, sadly. You can't cherry pick topics of discussion or focus points in such a broad topic.
Anyone saying "learn to play" you can go ahead and chalk their vote up to removing sentries. They're either feeling: they'd never be balanced, never have an appropriate place or would never fit the design of the game. There is no reason to get 'angsty' over the view that you need to learn to play so you can realize how worthless sentries are. That may not be how that sentiment is expressed every time, but it's the underlying idea.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Alright, some intelligent dialog. I know there are L2P factors that affect the win/loss ratio, a huge number of them. But what if the skill and teamwork required for one team to win drastically outweigh the skill and teamwork required for the other team to win? In context, marines need to L2P much better than aliens in order to acheive a 50/50 win ratio. This is a balance argument, is it not? To achieve a 50/50 ratio given the imbalance in L2P skills means that everyone who plays this game needs to improve their marine skills and teamwork to a near perfection level. That is not acheieveable in any public gaming community. In addition, if you look at the "competitive" games, the "more advanced" players I assume of NS2, It is even LESS achieveable with that community.
This post was trying to gather ideas and suggestions on how to make the "L2P" of marines easier so they win more. I did not want it to be an argumnet on the 50 zillion ways marines can fail to L2P and lose.
I suggested sentries as idea for imporvement. I did this for two reasons.
1) They currently SUCK and add little value for the res cost required to have them.
2) To modify behavior of them seems quite moddable in the LUA files. I wanted to consider a mod and not have to learn thousands of lines of LUA code.
To me, sentries are not so hopelessly useless that they need to be removed form the game. They need work, that is all. I never want to go down the path of major gutting of the design, or existing concepts. Sentries are an existing concept. Fix them, don't remove them. This game needs some balance work that is all. If I thought the game had core design and concept problems that are months away from ever being corrected I would have quit this game and moved on to something else.
Boom, instant killing shock if an alien touches it!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Let's think outside the box a bit more. What if the extractor can be electrfied without the need for the power node?
I was brought up earlier and I actually tried to find the LUA code for this one. Can the marine comm nanoshield an extractor before he gets the 2nd chair? Its another idea and one that would be a much smaller change. Unfortuately like most, I bet its a change only UWE can make.
if you do make a mod to experiment with some of these values, how are you going to establish the effect they have on team balance? You would need a lot of players to join in, preferably on different servers and different times of day...
Incidentally, I'm *still* at almost exactly 50% win rate for this latest build. Certainly on the range of pub servers I've played on so far, this really does seem to be one of the most balanced builds so far since release. I would wait to see what the content patch brings at the end of this month before embarking on the massive mission of persuading people to join your modded game servers to test balance. I personally trust UWE to develop their game the way they want it. So far, it's been improving every build for me. At some point you may have to consider that this isn't the game you actually want it to be...?
If you want to create a mod its really simple. the files you'll be looking for are BalanceHealth.lua and BalanceMisc.lua
Open them in Notepad (preferrably Notepad++) and ctrl+F for terms relating to sentrys. for instance Battery, Sentry, etc etc. You will find stuff. its all based on numbers so either raise or lower the numbers to get a good feel for it. NEVER edit original files. Create a new folder and create copies of the lua files in that folder, THEN edit it. and you will need Launchpad (in Natural Selection 2 Folder) for publishing. Just create a mod and set the dir to where you saved your files. and click the publish button and be amazed. :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, that is exactly the type of LUA changes I woould consider. Tweaking sentries seems very easy. I did not find a way to allow more than one sentry battery in a room though. Its not worth experimentation in my mind unless this can be changed. Do you know if it can?
if you do make a mod to experiment with some of these values, how are you going to establish the effect they have on team balance? You would need a lot of players to join in, preferably on different servers and different times of day...
Incidentally, I'm *still* at almost exactly 50% win rate for this latest build. Certainly on the range of pub servers I've played on so far, this really does seem to be one of the most balanced builds so far since release. I would wait to see what the content patch brings at the end of this month before embarking on the massive mission of persuading people to join your modded game servers to test balance. I personally trust UWE to develop their game the way they want it. So far, it's been improving every build for me. At some point you may have to consider that this isn't the game you actually want it to be...?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, I agree, it would have to become a popular mod that most servers deploy. Or perhaps have content that is proven to be good and UWE picks it up and puts it in base game. I would probaby have to rent a server of my own as well.
Its great if you are at a 50/50 ratio. Maybe you play with a core group of people that know how to "L2P" marines very well. I am still at an 76% alien win ratio on random public servers (28 out of 39 games). NS2Stats.org, even though its a subset of servers as well, still shows aliens at 60% wins on public servers, 70% on comptetive, if you filter by builds 236 and 237. It has not gotten any better according to this.
I wish UWE would comment on if/when some more balance changes would come next patch. My disappointment with their effort in this area is apparent and why I felt the need to post this and consider a mod.
For games between equally skilled teams in NS1, we almost NEVER got electrified RTs in the early game for the same reason why most good comms don't get early sentries in NS2. They cost too much for an early marine economy, that res could be weapons/armor upgrades, advanced armory, etc.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=126533" target="_blank">Marine Positioning (by Tane)</a>
The above document is a very good read, and talks specifically about defending the marine RT through proper positioning and aggressive play.
Sentry ideas
1.make sentries free, hear me out
2.build battery that has double radius to build them in
3.click on the battery and drop 3 free sentries make the battery slightly more expensive
4.give option to upgrade sentries, have flamethrowers unlocked? make flamer turret, shotgun turret, gl turret would be to much maybe.
or hmg turret and while we are at it just give marines hmgs too
Sentries will not solve the problem. You could make it so that marines could put down 1000 sentries with no battery packs that shoot frikkn lazers, its not going to clean up the problem with marines that spend the whole game hiding behind them and losing the map.
You don't win on defense. You don't win by automating defense. You win by shooting stuff in the face.
Sentries will not solve the problem. You could make it so that marines could put down 1000 sentries with no battery packs that shoot frikkn lazers, its not going to clean up the problem with marines that spend the whole game hiding behind them and losing the map.
You don't win on defense. You don't win by automating defense. You win by shooting stuff in the face.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In their territory. You can still shoot stuff in the face on defense :O
Sentries will not solve the problem. You could make it so that marines could put down 1000 sentries with no battery packs that shoot frikkn lazers, its not going to clean up the problem with marines that spend the whole game hiding behind them and losing the map.
You don't win on defense. You don't win by automating defense. You win by shooting stuff in the face.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You also can go shoot them in the face since you don't have to hug your base because automated defenses.
Then you're hurting your team and your usefulness to it. Mines are widely considered borderline OP at 15 res. Any less and they'd be ridiculous.
I know it doesn't mean much but marines have won most of the games I have played this patch, I don't know why the statics are so different from what I am seeing.
I've started to believe that the only way to salvage sentries is to switch the ARC and sentry. The sentry then becomes the mobile, deployable, marine-supporting weapon and the ARC becomes the stationary, shoots-through-walls, structure-killer (aka NS1-style). It also becomes easier for the comm to micro the sentries to provide the optimal amount of deterrence/support as the battle lines change.
i would have to disagree with you and doubt your knowledge about the game, mines are not OP or close to it, they blow unless you wanna kill one skulk not my kinda trade off, seeing that bile bomb will waste mines a fade can just blink by and set them off etc. they have a purpose but not enough for me to waste my pres on them. I do more than my fair share of killing in that game seeing that im usually in the top 3 everytime i play with out mines
He's a comp player and mines are completely ridiculous already
i'm gonna go ahead and infer that you are actually the one that's not very good
Each sentry powers a nanoshield for it's battery, reducing the damage it takes.
3 Sentries mean only 12.5% of the normal damage on the battery is taken.
It is now much better to focus the sentries (or at lease some of them), in general increase the time it takes for the nest to go down, while still makng it highly vulnerable to bile bomb.
i'm gonna go ahead and infer that you are actually the one that's not very good<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ok so hes a comp player... he knows how to play comp 6v6 that really works out for the rest of us in the pubs. I know plenty about the game and play it well, been doing so since it was the first playable version. ive seen the game makes its changes the whole time.
just because you are a comp player doesnt mean anything either except you have to much free time on your hands, so dont try and use it like its some great title IAMKING
i was a comp player in tf2 years ago, and just because i was didnt make me a master of everything tf2.