<!--QuoteBegin--Unipac+Jan 27 2003, 09:34 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Unipac @ Jan 27 2003, 09:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Show kills for both teams.
The aliens already have their kills shown, I very rarely hear anyone brag about how many kills someone got.
Sure, NS is a team game, but why not let the better players (skulks who can take down 4 marines grouped together, or a marine who can shoot down 3 skulks in one clip) be recognized by having their score shown?
That's just IMO. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If you just want to know who can take out the most marines at one time, you could replace the score with the highest number of marines taken out within a 30 second period or something. Not really usefull information IMO.
Ah, well i'm not sure. Im not an anti-frag person...oor what ever. I voted 'Proposed v1.1 (alien only, also marines in tourny mode)' mmm..i'm not sure though!. 'Hide all' is also good option.
But then i had a flash <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> . Maybe, this could be controlled with server cvar, so that server admins could decide whether or not to display frags or team score?.. would that be even possible, how would that be...
<!--QuoteBegin--Mr.Grim+Jan 27 2003, 04:18 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mr.Grim @ Jan 27 2003, 04:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Someone told that the alien with most frags could be the leader and coordinatir... what if the best alien player is playing gorge and no one listens to him cos he has 0 frags <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I purposley said OFFENSIVE coordinator, gorge is in charge of expanding and defense. Its doesnt really matter anyway, I think the propesed 1.1 change will make things better
I see the points about individual scores and how that can turn the team on each other. I guess it just doesn't really matter to me all that much. The objective of the game is to take out the other team, it's not a deathmatch game where the highest number of kills will end the game.
So I guess I'm two sided now... *smack head*
However, I think the scores should either be hidden or shown for both teams, not just one.
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
someone had suggested end of the round awards <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=21020&hl=awards' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...21020&hl=awards</a> which I think would be a lot of fun. I voted for neither teams scores showing, but I think both should be shown in tournament mode.
end of round scores / awards would be fine with me although not really useful. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Of course, some sort of victory celebration for the winning team would be cool... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--GreyPaws+Jan 27 2003, 03:02 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (GreyPaws @ Jan 27 2003, 03:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--|MaTT|+Jan 27 2003, 02:58 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (|MaTT| @ Jan 27 2003, 02:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I voted for show no scores.. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> I cant see the reason why one team can see thier scores and the other one cant!!! <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> well its important for marines to know which alien to kill first, also an alien with many frags can take the role of orginizer of offense (kinda like hockey and alternate team captains) since Kahraa dont have a commander the guy with most kill can coordinate the offensives! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> So how do you know which alien is which when your killing em? And how do you hunt down a certain one... oh wait, it's impossible. No scores for all and scores when tourney mode is on.
Personally i can see it go both ways, but heres the endline for me - scores only incourage people to do cute stuff like sit around fragging people instead of helping win the game, i think a guy with a 0-15 ratio but has taken out numerous enemy structures and assisted in the creation of the hive or the marine that is always following orders and building structures is just as valuable, if not more, than the guy that spends his time bragging about how he got a 5:1 kill ratio one day. And personally, i think the scoreboard only encourages people to spend their time camping around, doing nothing but hunting the other team looking for free kills.
I voted for alien scores in casual, both in tourney.
I'm torn with wanting no scores for casual (wasn't a poll option) but I often use my kill-death ratio to help me get a feal for how I'm doing responding to the server lag (not NS related lag).
What I'd realy like would be to only show your <b>own</b> kills (no -1 for suicide please) and deaths in both casual and tourney mode.
If the tourney guys realy didnt like it they could 1-run psycostats on the logs or 2-get to see their whole team's kills and deaths.
Someone brought up the idea that aliens should have visible frags but not visible deaths (but team deaths would still be shown). I like that idea a lot, I think it allows DM'ers (like myself) to see how many times they've chowed down on a tasty marine snack, without making suicide Skulk rushers look completely inept despite their contributions to the team. Because it's pretty easy to rack up deaths quickly if you're making a bunch of assaults on an enemy base. I'm also thinking that both team's scores could possibly be displayed after the end of a round.
On another note, I'm really surprised and impressed about the high intelligence level of the responses here. Not a single "OMGZ SHOW RINE SCOREZ I LIEK TO KILL SLIEMBALLZ IR 1337" post...well, except for what seemed to be a joke post. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> Keep up the good work.
<!--QuoteBegin--RhoadsToNowhere+Jan 27 2003, 10:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RhoadsToNowhere @ Jan 27 2003, 10:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Someone brought up the idea that aliens should have visible frags but not visible deaths (but team deaths would still be shown). I like that idea a lot, I think it allows DM'ers (like myself) to see how many times they've chowed down on a tasty marine snack, without making suicide Skulk rushers look completely inept despite their contributions to the team. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> While I don't consider myself a DMer I like to know how many marines (or aliens for that matter) I've killed. But I realy like seeing <b>my</b> death count so I can get a feal for how 'aggressively' I'm playing and if I should tone down or not.
On the other hand I like haveing a little friendly kill count rivalry with the other fades (esp if I'm a lerk! hehehe). But you can always do that with your friends if you can see your own scores just by telling each other what they are.
Frankly I don't think any solution will make everyone (or maby even most) happy. But I'm confident that the NS team will do something sane. After all they've done a great job so far!
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->All scores should be hidden (apart from team score)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When I'm being of most use to my team, like guarding a map location or taking out marine structures, I tend to get a really bad score (you don't get frags for killing turrets). Either have a total team score for each side or not bother at all.
<!--QuoteBegin--Brutus+Jan 27 2003, 03:58 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Brutus @ Jan 27 2003, 03:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I say all scores. Taking away the scoreboard will not make people play as a team. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree. It wouldn't really help with teamwork.
But...I'd quit. Regardless of how much fun the game is...being given no personal reward pretty much takes away the carrot for me. But hey, what do I know? I was weaned of Q2DM/CTF, Q3DM/RA, and who can forget CS...
<!--QuoteBegin--AcKz+Jan 27 2003, 03:11 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AcKz @ Jan 27 2003, 03:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Show both scores in tourny, no scores in pubs.. Mainly because people in pubs will rambo more, and not work as a team. Scores in tourny mode would be great though, I'd love to show my clanmates i own them kthx <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The only thing you own Ackz is my spot on the bench when i'm in the game, also i enjoy my coffee straight black thanks <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--CForrester+Jan 27 2003, 03:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CForrester @ Jan 27 2003, 03:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--sufus+Jan 27 2003, 02:55 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (sufus @ Jan 27 2003, 02:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Who gives a crap about teamwork, this game is about frags. Instead of limitning us, how about you make a variable like in CS so everyone can decide for themselves? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I apologize if the following offends anyone...
This is the stupidest thing I've EVER seen said on the boards. NS is the ONLY game I know of where teamwork is FORCED. This game is about strategy, working together, having fun and meeting new people. Frags are on the bottom of the list. And if I hear "like in <gamename>" one more time, I'm going to scream. Go play that game if you like that system so much, this is NS, not "Mutilate the game and eventually make it only worthy of the name "Super-Rambo Fragfest"".
EDIT!!: If it was a joke, I retract my previous statements. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> i believe without seeing scores, one cannot correctly evaluate balance issues properly.
If you hide both scores you dont see how well the alien team or marine team is working. Then because you cannot see how many frags are seen, how do you know if its a balance issue or if the other team just sucks.
Also what is wrong with rewarding good players? I think both scores should be shown so the commander when he techs up good equipment and he knows how to reward.
Why is everyone so scared of Rambos? I agree that too many are unnecceary(spelling i know), I think it is because the other people rely on their teammates WAY too much and worry more about "Being with the team" and "teamwork", teamwork is nice, but if someone constanly getting owned on the marine side, should he reap the benefits of the good players who bust their ****?
Also, without seeing scores, people might actually take pride in their marine ability and kill somemore. People who do not want to see their scores are usually the ones who do not get too many kills, I guess they do not want to be embarassed.
People who play well should be recognized, people who see their score that is below their own personal standards, should work to improve their score AND follow the commander, god forbid some people get some personal recognition for good work they do, not hampered by the people who believe in the "let the team do the work so I can suck" Philosophy.
I think it's a great idea to hide both team's score's. So, it won't be just "omg-I-pwned-5-marines-so-I'm-1337", but would actually involve teamwork.
P.S. Everytime I try posting a bug on the Bug Reports (something different most of the time) it never ends up showing up even after a week or 3 days.. why?
I've never once had the chance to spend even 5 seconds trying to mouse over a guy to see what his name is when I command or when I'm on the ground. Then to spend another few seconds checking the scoreboard for the player's name to decide what type of gun I should give him, if any, or whether I should try and stick with him or stay back and defend? I dunno, it all sounds too much.
I'm not in favor of individual scores on either team, because it's exactly that: a team.
I just don't get why you'd want to hide any of them, especially the kharaa <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
I Urge you guys to not remove the individual scores, as it will inhibit clan recruiting, because much of that is based on watching peoples round scores
I don't like the "Only show the scores for the Comm" because then some lamers might hop into the chair just to see their score or beg the comm to tell them their score.
Scores should be hidden at all times except for tourny mode.
Also, since we are on the topic of the scoreboard, I would like to see what marines have what weapons. I know you can tell just by looking, but it would be useful to see who has a welder instead of screaming for 5 min trying to see if anyone has a welder. So I would like to see something like this:
<!--QuoteBegin--Grimm Spector+Jan 28 2003, 03:21 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Grimm Spector @ Jan 28 2003, 03:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <span style='font-size:7pt;line-height:100%'> I Urge you guys to not remove the individual scores, as it will inhibit clan recruiting, because much of that is based on watching peoples round scores!</span> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, I think most recruitment is based on observing who is a good team player. IE the people who will put the team's goals before their own score. Anyone looking to recruit will be looking for people who communicate well with the team and don't go off ramboing. Player scores don't mean a thing.
Actually, I'm all for removing all scores, except for team scores. It will help with pubs and wouldn't matter to clans as much, since they're there to win, not who gets the most kills. As for pubs, if you're a recruiter or a leader looking for people to recruit.. and just recruiting on ratios, then you won't get far. If anything, you should watching them play, seeing if they cooperate and follow orders. Even with people with bad or low ratios can still be essential for a clan. It's all about teamwork, then skill. You can always improve your skill in practices, but you can't really improve teamwork without very long, arduous training. People that rush the marine base, killing all the spawning marines while the hive is being destroyed by what marines are left.. won't be helpful in a clan. You're still going to lose because you lost the hive.
Anyway, here's the gist of it: Take out all individual scoring.
Oh, and nice idea Unknown. It's nice to know which person on your team has a welder so you can scream at THEM, rather than the whole team for a welder. ^.^
cuz i think it'll suit everyone.... personally none is best, cuz even im afraid to charge a buncha marines sometimes or a turret farm, same with tonsa other ppl because they are afriad ppl will percieve them as being a sucky player
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
<!--QuoteBegin--Grimm Spector+Jan 27 2003, 10:21 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Grimm Spector @ Jan 27 2003, 10:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'> I Urge you guys to not remove the individual scores, as it will inhibit clan recruiting, because much of that is based on watching peoples round scores!</span> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Initially I was thinking this too, but if a clan is seriously considering someone, they should play with the person and see if they are a valuable addition to the team. That may be the way clan recruitment goes in other mods but that shouldnt be the way it is in NS.
Comments
The aliens already have their kills shown, I very rarely hear anyone brag about how many kills someone got.
Sure, NS is a team game, but why not let the better players (skulks who can take down 4 marines grouped together, or a marine who can shoot down 3 skulks in one clip) be recognized by having their score shown?
That's just IMO. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you just want to know who can take out the most marines at one time, you could replace the score with the highest number of marines taken out within a 30 second period or something. Not really usefull information IMO.
I voted 'Proposed v1.1 (alien only, also marines in tourny mode)'
mmm..i'm not sure though!. 'Hide all' is also good option.
But then i had a flash <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> . Maybe, this could be controlled with server cvar, so that server admins could decide whether or not to display frags or team score?.. would that be even possible, how would that be...
what if the best alien player is playing gorge and no one listens to him cos he has 0 frags <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I purposley said OFFENSIVE coordinator, gorge is in charge of expanding and defense. Its doesnt really matter anyway, I think the propesed 1.1 change will make things better
So I guess I'm two sided now... *smack head*
However, I think the scores should either be hidden or shown for both teams, not just one.
which I think would be a lot of fun. I voted for neither teams scores showing, but I think both should be shown in tournament mode.
Of course, some sort of victory celebration for the winning team would be cool... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
well its important for marines to know which alien to kill first, also an alien with many frags can take the role of orginizer of offense (kinda like hockey and alternate team captains) since Kahraa dont have a commander the guy with most kill can coordinate the offensives! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
So how do you know which alien is which when your killing em? And how do you hunt down a certain one... oh wait, it's impossible. No scores for all and scores when tourney mode is on.
I'm torn with wanting no scores for casual (wasn't a poll option) but I often use my kill-death ratio to help me get a feal for how I'm doing responding to the server lag (not NS related lag).
What I'd realy like would be to only show your <b>own</b> kills (no -1 for suicide please) and deaths in both casual and tourney mode.
If the tourney guys realy didnt like it they could 1-run psycostats on the logs or 2-get to see their whole team's kills and deaths.
On another note, I'm really surprised and impressed about the high intelligence level of the responses here. Not a single "OMGZ SHOW RINE SCOREZ I LIEK TO KILL SLIEMBALLZ IR 1337" post...well, except for what seemed to be a joke post. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> Keep up the good work.
While I don't consider myself a DMer I like to know how many marines (or aliens for that matter) I've killed. But I realy like seeing <b>my</b> death count so I can get a feal for how 'aggressively' I'm playing and if I should tone down or not.
On the other hand I like haveing a little friendly kill count rivalry with the other fades (esp if I'm a lerk! hehehe). But you can always do that with your friends if you can see your own scores just by telling each other what they are.
Frankly I don't think any solution will make everyone (or maby even most) happy. But I'm confident that the NS team will do something sane. After all they've done a great job so far!
I agree. It wouldn't really help with teamwork.
But...I'd quit. Regardless of how much fun the game is...being given no personal reward pretty much takes away the carrot for me. But hey, what do I know? I was weaned of Q2DM/CTF, Q3DM/RA, and who can forget CS...
The only thing you own Ackz is my spot on the bench when i'm in the game, also i enjoy my coffee straight black thanks <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I apologize if the following offends anyone...
This is the stupidest thing I've EVER seen said on the boards. NS is the ONLY game I know of where teamwork is FORCED. This game is about strategy, working together, having fun and meeting new people. Frags are on the bottom of the list. And if I hear "like in <gamename>" one more time, I'm going to scream. Go play that game if you like that system so much, this is NS, not "Mutilate the game and eventually make it only worthy of the name "Super-Rambo Fragfest"".
EDIT!!: If it was a joke, I retract my previous statements. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
i believe without seeing scores, one cannot correctly evaluate balance issues properly.
If you hide both scores you dont see how well the alien team or marine team is working. Then because you cannot see how many frags are seen, how do you know if its a balance issue or if the other team just sucks.
Also what is wrong with rewarding good players? I think both scores should be shown so the commander when he techs up good equipment and he knows how to reward.
Why is everyone so scared of Rambos? I agree that too many are unnecceary(spelling i know), I think it is because the other people rely on their teammates WAY too much and worry more about "Being with the team" and "teamwork", teamwork is nice, but if someone constanly getting owned on the marine side, should he reap the benefits of the good players who bust their ****?
Also, without seeing scores, people might actually take pride in their marine ability and kill somemore. People who do not want to see their scores are usually the ones who do not get too many kills, I guess they do not want to be embarassed.
People who play well should be recognized, people who see their score that is below their own personal standards, should work to improve their score AND follow the commander, god forbid some people get some personal recognition for good work they do, not hampered by the people who believe in the "let the team do the work so I can suck" Philosophy.
P.S. Everytime I try posting a bug on the Bug Reports (something different most of the time) it never ends up showing up even after a week or 3 days.. why?
I'm not in favor of individual scores on either team, because it's exactly that: a team.
<span style='color:red'>No yelling.</span>
Scores should be hidden at all times except for tourny mode.
Also, since we are on the topic of the scoreboard, I would like to see what marines have what weapons. I know you can tell just by looking, but it would be useful to see who has a welder instead of screaming for 5 min trying to see if anyone has a welder. So I would like to see something like this:
Unknown HMG/Pistol <insert ping # here>
Actually, I think most recruitment is based on observing who is a good team player. IE the people who will put the team's goals before their own score. Anyone looking to recruit will be looking for people who communicate well with the team and don't go off ramboing. Player scores don't mean a thing.
Anyway, here's the gist of it: Take out all individual scoring.
Oh, and nice idea Unknown. It's nice to know which person on your team has a welder so you can scream at THEM, rather than the whole team for a welder. ^.^
marines only
aliens only
show both
or NONE
cuz i think it'll suit everyone.... personally none is best, cuz even im afraid to charge a buncha marines sometimes or a turret farm, same with tonsa other ppl because they are afriad ppl will percieve them as being a sucky player
Initially I was thinking this too, but if a clan is seriously considering someone, they should play with the person and see if they are a valuable addition to the team. That may be the way clan recruitment goes in other mods but that shouldnt be the way it is in NS.