humbabaThat Exciting Tales From the Frontline GuyJoin Date: 2002-01-25Member: 86Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Well . .C is a very skilled player actually, and he wasnt really Llamaing. A very important facet of commanding is pleasing your troops. Everyone has their Motives and desires, it is the commanders responsibility to decide who's desires get met, who's get ignored. I Made judgement calls a marine didnt like, and that marine voiced his opinion. Marine's arent OBLIGATED to server the commander, but it's in their best interests to do so. It is also the commander's job to motivate his men. You can do this two ways. Me, Monse, and Silver's way: Yell at them (or in my case, type in Caps, cause I have no Voice Comm) and threaten them with being neglected should they disobey. Or Most peoples way: Please them with Guns and other happy things so that they eagerly kick ### at your command. The downside of the latter approach is that it costs YOU rps that could be better spent elsewhere in a more tactically beneficial manner. Marine disobediance is a feature, not a flaw, of NS.
<!--QuoteBegin--humbaba+Sep. 28 2002,16:12--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (humbaba @ Sep. 28 2002,16:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Marine disobediance is a feature, not a flaw, of NS.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Too bad court-marshalling isn't possible in NS when a Marine disobeys the Commander. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
I didn't think insubordination would be a "feature", but I see what you mean. Kind of makes it more frantic and unrobotic when your men refuse to obey your orders or don't do exactly what you say... Then again, Marines who want to die quicker are insubordinate, unless the Commander screws up. Usually, the commander is to blame for mistakes his team makes, unless you're on a server full of w4nkers... just like in real life.
But me... well... you can order me around and I'll be loyal as a Bob. Trulies! I will! Well... except for the obvious reasons. ("Hey." "Huh?" "Go jump off that cliff." "Uh..." "Do it for your country." "Eh... no....?")
<!--QuoteBegin--Surge+Sep. 28 2002,18:05--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Surge @ Sep. 28 2002,18:05)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->But me... well... you can order me around and I'll be loyal as a Bob. Trulies! I will! Well... except for the obvious reasons. ("Hey." "Huh?" "Go jump off that cliff." "Uh..." "Do it for your country." "Eh... no....?")<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That sound resonable
As a marine, of course I'd want to have a nice juicy 'nade launcher drop into my lap- but I also wanna win... and I'd trust my commanders judgement if he seems to know what's goin on. I'd just ask for a shottie instead.
Necro<insert non-birthday-related title here>Join Date: 2002-08-09Member: 1118Members
stupid mr.c!
i would have followed orders! <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/asrifle.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='::asrifle::'><!--endemo-->
Well, I guess Mr C was simply involved in the game, wanted to win and took it a bit too seriously. I guess you just have to keep in mind that it doesnt matter if you lose one match in a public server as next match you might be the commander and if it is lost you can just blame the commander rather than have a go at him.
I can imagine arguing if it was a clan match... though only after the match had ended and it would be more of a discussion.
Necro<insert non-birthday-related title here>Join Date: 2002-08-09Member: 1118Members
mr.c shows what public play will most likely be like....unfortunetly <!--emo&:(--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('><!--endemo-->
No, on a public server our "Mr. C" would either try to TK the commander, or public chat all the marines movements to the aliens. I fear for NS simply because I have seen nothing yet that could stand up to pure human stupidity.
I am reminded somewhat of Starcraft and BGH. Once the public gets to modding this, I figure the first thing that's going to come out is either an alien vs. alien map, or simply a work-around for normal maps. Then there's infinite money and instant upgrades. Then you'll see dozens of servers running maps where everybody's running around as an Onos trying to out-frag eachother.
Necro<insert non-birthday-related title here>Join Date: 2002-08-09Member: 1118Members
<!--QuoteBegin--Inexorable+Sep. 29 2002,07:37--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Inexorable @ Sep. 29 2002,07:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->No, on a public server our "Mr. C" would either try to TK the commander, or public chat all the marines movements to the aliens. I fear for NS simply because I have seen nothing yet that could stand up to pure human stupidity.
I am reminded somewhat of Starcraft and BGH. Once the public gets to modding this, I figure the first thing that's going to come out is either an alien vs. alien map, or simply a work-around for normal maps. Then there's infinite money and instant upgrades. Then you'll see dozens of servers running maps where everybody's running around as an Onos trying to out-frag eachother.
People are stupid and I hate them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> no cause that would get boring
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
nexro, have you ever played Starcraft?
ok, what he was talking about is Big Game Hunters basic concept is that you have EVERY thing you could possibly need to instantly build you army of disgusting ness
well, guess what it is like looking for a game of SCraft now: BGH BGH BGH BGH BGH BGH BGHvarient BGH BGH BGH BGH BGH BGHvarient
soas for ppl getting bored with it, no, they wont
all I am hopping is that this game will not beable to be like this
humbabaThat Exciting Tales From the Frontline GuyJoin Date: 2002-01-25Member: 86Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Allow me to go over a few things. A brief little "Treatise" on why Public Play will not be a Swarm of Llamaing. First of all, NS is a reasonable complex game (though the leanring curve has been reduced significantly and RTSers should take to it like a duck to water) which takes time to learn and Llamas are stupid people. Second, A marine commander has godlike control over all of his marines. SHOULD a player decide to llama, its just a simple matter of NOT equipping him. And consequently, if he's reporting movements (assuming this Llama has figured out the map layout, quite a feat for one so dumb), the aliens WILL find him because he will be among them. Who dies first in a marien squad: The lame player with the LMG and 50 health or the Shotgunner with 100 health and Heavy Armor? It is basically impossible to Llama on the alien side because aliens dont rely on any other alien to play as they should, they can be ignore for Llamaing purposes. NS is full of heavy duty action and scares. My guess is that most players will be catalysed into a fearful submission to the commander after being humbled by a lvl 4 blinking up to them and slashing out their entrails. Sure . . . . on release day, they may have to learn a few hard lessons, but players will eventually figure out that they need to listen to the commander if they want to live. Llama's are at the mercy of the commander, and aliens are especially good at killing stationary targets (Doorblockers, anyone?). I like Mr.C, so rather than ignore him and let him die, I tried to convert him and let him understand why I commanded like I did. Also, it must be remembered that in that game, at the most, I had 3 marines under my command. Public Matches will NEVER be that small, this game was at an Off Hour with few PTs. Upon release, NS will NEVER have an off hour. One player is incapable of bringing down the team as long as a commander has 4 or 5 obedient marines. So fear not, Llama prevention is worked into the design of NS itself, and there will be no silly lame #### going on. Also . .it must be remembered that Mr.C was not Llamaing, merely disagreeing and doing thigns his own way. For those of you who have seen the "thin red line", you'll know what Im talking about. Just as in real war, all your soldiers have personalities and Commanding is a game of Convincining them to follow your orders as well as a game of Killing the enemy. You really fight on two fronts, the player's egos and the enemys claws.
P.S. I'll get around to writing down another story or two here . soon.
This is the first REAL RTS. Each of your guys is a living, breathing person, and they will NOT go mindlessly attacking Aliens. Leave one alone for a while and he'll go off and do his own thing. Order one to do somthing stupid ("Hey, you, check out that group of Onos' over there.") And hes likley not to follow that command. Those are disadvantages of course, but they add substance to the game, making another, immeasurable resource commanders have to look out for- Troop morale, conetedness, and trust. But also, there is one advantage to this, that outweighs EVERYTHING. Each marine is capable of thinking... each marine can make descisions on the fly... each marine has a different attitude and personality. This fact alone proves how cool Natural-Selection is going to be.
I don't know about everyone else, but it seems to me people are just beginning to realize this. And that makes the wait for NS almost bearable.
Have you guys have no faith in humanity? Most people I've played with in any game are good folks. There is the really rare chance I run into a jerk that boots me for no good reason, but I don't even know what a llama is exactly.
Oh yeah, in on off-topic fashion, I think it's better that each person is a real person. They show normal emotions, such as anger, fear, and leaving in the midst of a battle to go to school... oh wait... Well, a smart player will show the first two emotions... I run when things get heavy.
There is no shame in retreat. Retreat can be the smartest thing at times.
I can't wait till clan matches of NS. Since most clans are very obident, commanding will be fairly easy but very stressful. And with aliens working together, they will be a very tough force to defeat.
I am wondering how leagues will have NS matches....Is it going to be a one round deal with one clan as aliens and the other as marines or are they going to play 2 (or 3) rounds on the same map with the clans switching? Hopefully it will be the one round with one clan as aliens and the other as marines. My clan is going to consintrate on the aliens.
Darnit, I talked too much again.
Ontopic, MORE STORIES and/or THE RELEASE OF NS PLEASE!!!! <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->
Humbaba please give us some more of your great stories, and also how many PT's are there? Also what's the biggest game you've had? Do you prefer more or less people?
coilAmateur pirate. Professional monkey. All pance.Join Date: 2002-04-12Member: 424Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Many playtesters use dialup. Merkaba connects via 56k from *Europe* and has no more trouble playing than I do on a T3 network. This is due to Flayra's magically delicious, silky-smooth, sweet-like-candy netcode.
Wish I could have a taste <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->
Comments
Marine disobediance is a feature, not a flaw, of NS.
Too bad court-marshalling isn't possible in NS when a Marine disobeys the Commander. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
I didn't think insubordination would be a "feature", but I see what you mean. Kind of makes it more frantic and unrobotic when your men refuse to obey your orders or don't do exactly what you say... Then again, Marines who want to die quicker are insubordinate, unless the Commander screws up. Usually, the commander is to blame for mistakes his team makes, unless you're on a server full of w4nkers... just like in real life.
But me... well... you can order me around and I'll be loyal as a Bob. Trulies! I will! Well... except for the obvious reasons. ("Hey." "Huh?" "Go jump off that cliff." "Uh..." "Do it for your country." "Eh... no....?")
That sound resonable
i would have followed orders! <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/asrifle.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='::asrifle::'><!--endemo-->
I can imagine arguing if it was a clan match... though only after the match had ended and it would be more of a discussion.
I am reminded somewhat of Starcraft and BGH. Once the public gets to modding this, I figure the first thing that's going to come out is either an alien vs. alien map, or simply a work-around for normal maps. Then there's infinite money and instant upgrades. Then you'll see dozens of servers running maps where everybody's running around as an Onos trying to out-frag eachother.
People are stupid and I hate them.
I am reminded somewhat of Starcraft and BGH. Once the public gets to modding this, I figure the first thing that's going to come out is either an alien vs. alien map, or simply a work-around for normal maps. Then there's infinite money and instant upgrades. Then you'll see dozens of servers running maps where everybody's running around as an Onos trying to out-frag eachother.
People are stupid and I hate them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
no cause that would get boring
ok, what he was talking about is Big Game Hunters
basic concept is that you have EVERY thing you could possibly need to instantly build you army of disgusting ness
well, guess what it is like looking for a game of SCraft now:
BGH BGH BGH BGH BGH BGH BGHvarient BGH BGH BGH BGH BGH BGHvarient
soas for ppl getting bored with it, no, they wont
all I am hopping is that this game will not beable to be like this
It is basically impossible to Llama on the alien side because aliens dont rely on any other alien to play as they should, they can be ignore for Llamaing purposes.
NS is full of heavy duty action and scares. My guess is that most players will be catalysed into a fearful submission to the commander after being humbled by a lvl 4 blinking up to them and slashing out their entrails. Sure . . . . on release day, they may have to learn a few hard lessons, but players will eventually figure out that they need to listen to the commander if they want to live.
Llama's are at the mercy of the commander, and aliens are especially good at killing stationary targets (Doorblockers, anyone?). I like Mr.C, so rather than ignore him and let him die, I tried to convert him and let him understand why I commanded like I did.
Also, it must be remembered that in that game, at the most, I had 3 marines under my command. Public Matches will NEVER be that small, this game was at an Off Hour with few PTs. Upon release, NS will NEVER have an off hour. One player is incapable of bringing down the team as long as a commander has 4 or 5 obedient marines.
So fear not, Llama prevention is worked into the design of NS itself, and there will be no silly lame #### going on. Also . .it must be remembered that Mr.C was not Llamaing, merely disagreeing and doing thigns his own way. For those of you who have seen the "thin red line", you'll know what Im talking about. Just as in real war, all your soldiers have personalities and Commanding is a game of Convincining them to follow your orders as well as a game of Killing the enemy. You really fight on two fronts, the player's egos and the enemys claws.
P.S. I'll get around to writing down another story or two here . soon.
<!--EDIT|humbaba|Sep. 29 2002,11:00-->
I don't know about everyone else, but it seems to me people are just beginning to realize this. And that makes the wait for NS almost bearable.
To stay on topic, BRING ON THE STORIES! Woohooo!
amen to that
Oh yeah, in on off-topic fashion, I think it's better that each person is a real person. They show normal emotions, such as anger, fear, and leaving in the midst of a battle to go to school... oh wait... Well, a smart player will show the first two emotions... I run when things get heavy.
There is no shame in retreat. Retreat can be the smartest thing at times.
On a similar note, I just realized Venmoch is the same Venmoch as the one at the Planetunreal Forums! Hi, Ven!
I am wondering how leagues will have NS matches....Is it going to be a one round deal with one clan as aliens and the other as marines or are they going to play 2 (or 3) rounds on the same map with the clans switching? Hopefully it will be the one round with one clan as aliens and the other as marines. My clan is going to consintrate on the aliens.
Darnit, I talked too much again.
Ontopic, MORE STORIES and/or THE RELEASE OF NS PLEASE!!!! <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->
<!--EDIT|coil|Sep. 29 2002,23:19-->
me 2!