Is It Possible For God To
kida
Join Date: 2003-02-20 Member: 13778Members
Join Date: 2003-02-20 Member: 13778Members
in Discussions
<div class="IPBDescription">forgive even the worst of sins?</div> Being a Christian, I find that my mind is more conscientious than people who are not Christian or religious. If I do something terribly wrong, I get really regretful over it and ask for forgiveness from God. But I tend to believe that atheists have nothing to worry about since they have no God to worry about or heaven and hell. Someone please correct me if I am wrong about both sides.
Have you done something in the past that you truly regret? Can God even forgive the worst of sinners like Hitler? Does it make sense that people on death row, who claim they have found God, can go to heaven and whatnot?
Anyways I have one last question, how does God go about punishing people for their sins? If I did a terrible sin, does that mean God is going to strike me down with boils, maybe people who I love, or give me some sort of rare disease all because of some sin?
I was just remembering the past and wondering if making better choices could effect me today.
Have you done something in the past that you truly regret? Can God even forgive the worst of sinners like Hitler? Does it make sense that people on death row, who claim they have found God, can go to heaven and whatnot?
Anyways I have one last question, how does God go about punishing people for their sins? If I did a terrible sin, does that mean God is going to strike me down with boils, maybe people who I love, or give me some sort of rare disease all because of some sin?
I was just remembering the past and wondering if making better choices could effect me today.
Comments
Yes, everyone has.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Can God even forgive the worst of sinners like Hitler?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Does it make sense that people on death row, who claim they have found God, can go to heaven and whatnot?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Anyways I have one last question, how does God go about punishing people for their sins?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hell. (Only one sin keeps you from heaven, unbelief.) God doesn't punish you for sins, but let's you live with the consequnces. Example: You have sex with a **** with every STD imaginable. Will God forgive you? Yes. Will he take away your STDS? No.
Athiests may appear not to have anything to worry about, but remember the Matrix? "what is the matrix?" "it is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth" Its like that with atheists. They have been blinded and cannot see the cliff of eternal destruction they are heading towards. They will have plenty to worry about for the rest of eternity, dont worry.
And if god would exist, he would probably not allow such things in the world to be. He would most probably not send some rare disease upon you... But that is only speculation, so ignore it... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
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(Only one sin keeps you from heaven, unbelief.)
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I find it suspicious how the only sin that keeps you from heaven is a sin the christians can't commit... and that people of other religions/atheists <i>always</i> commit.
I'd like to be enlightened about the "purgatory" thing , to know what kind of fate sinning believers can have.
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God doesn't punish you for sins, but let's you live with the consequnces.
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What if there are no consequences ? Think about the cases of a mafia "godfather" , a rich buisnessman responsible of his corporation's bankrupcy , or a dictator emigrating to a safe place after having looted a country's ressources. They can end their lives quietly , with no trouble... for example , Pinochet never had to fear the consequences of his actions , for he modified the Chilean constitution before leaving to protect himself. Logically , he would enter heaven despite having tortured thousands of innocent people , after a comfortable life.
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Example: You have sex with a **** with every STD imaginable. Will God forgive you? Yes. Will he take away your STDS? No.
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Bad , bad , bad example. Firstly , most people here will agree that having sex is not a sin. Secondly , the "normality" and morality of a prostitute's job is still being discussed on the forums , so you shouldn't treat them as "sinfull" anyway. Thirdly , not every prostitute is foolish enough to be infected by STDs , most of them know how to protect themselves from theses. People can have STDs from their lovers , but a pedophile with a condom is unlikely to have one. (not a chance in the case of a pedophile priest <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->)
QUOTE (Z.X. Bogglesteinsky)
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They have been blinded and cannot see the cliff of eternal destruction they are heading towards. They will have plenty to worry about for the rest of eternity, dont worry.
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I can perfectly see the Gorges of Eternal Peril waiting for me to give the wrong answer to the bridge's old man , but I am also confident enough that it is a joke. Should I actually go to hell , an eternity should be enough for me to curse this sad universe's insane creator...
*edit* does this mean that Christians don't sin? Of course not. We still struggle with temptations every day, but we do recognize it is undesirable to do so.
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Purgatory (which, according to Christians, doesnt exist and is never mentioned anywhere in the Bible, in fact, it is refuted - Jesus says that there is only one way into heaven, that is believeing on him) states that if you haven't live too bad a life, you get the chance to work off your sins and enter heaven.
Sinning beleivers (ie all of us christians) wont go to purgatory, because it doesn't exist. God will judge us for our sins, but Jesus will take our place and say basically I am sinless therefore this man is sinless
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->most people here will agree that having sex is not a sin<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>God</b> agrees sex is not a sin. He created it for cryin' out loud. What he doesnt like is Sex outside of marriage. That (adultery) <i>is</i> a sin
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> As a Christian, I try not use phrases like "eternal destruction" when talking about atheists. You guys are just too dramatic<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, but it sounds good (in a sadistic sort of way)
Yes, everyone has.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Can God even forgive the worst of sinners like Hitler?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Does it make sense that people on death row, who claim they have found God, can go to heaven and whatnot?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Anyways I have one last question, how does God go about punishing people for their sins?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hell. (Only one sin keeps you from heaven, unbelief.) God doesn't punish you for sins, but let's you live with the consequnces. Example: You have sex with a **** with every STD imaginable. Will God forgive you? Yes. Will he take away your STDS? No. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm. Purgatory then, because I hear STDS <b>ARE</b> hell
Okay, despite the MASSIVE urge to flame you for that comment, I won't.... However, I suggest you keep offensive remarks (Yes, that offended me. You're saying that I'm blind, when Christianity itself enforces blind faith in one deity, and saying that I'm on the path to destruction. (*cough"You are on the way to destruction. You have no chance to survive, make your time."cough* Sorry, couldn't resist.)) away from the forums.
infalibility denied *headexplodes*
Athiests may appear not to have anything to worry about, but remember the Matrix? "what is the matrix?" "it is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth" Its like that with atheists. They have been blinded and cannot see the cliff of eternal destruction they are heading towards. They will have plenty to worry about for the rest of eternity, dont worry. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Having beliefs is one thing, but religious zealots are alot more dangerous than blind faith thanks.
Edit: Picture taken out, I think you saw enough of me. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
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How is that suspicious? A Christian is merely someone who has asked Christ to take the pain for our sins. He's an infinite being, he can do that, and, as you see in the bible, wants to do that.
Every sin you commit is damning, unbelief is unforgiveable simply because said sin is refusing to ask for forgiveness.
As for the failed experament: God did not create us sinful, God created us with free will.
If I created a program that drew up a massive ammount of computer agents, say in a "Sims" like situation, so that I could build houses for them, so that I can bless them, they are going to need to have free will to be at least somewhat on my level. (In His image) If one of the decisions that those sims have is to reject the hosues I give them, or to jump of a cliff, it's their decision, and not a failed experament on my part in any way, shape, or form. It's their choice, and it doesn't compromize my character any by creating something that can do what it wants.
Final question: Why do you presume you know God's intentions?
What do you consider "sexual immorality"? Morals are subjective.
One could. However, God has shown himself to be benevolent in other situatuions, and benevolent and sadist usually don't go together. Not to mention the fact that, you know, he was crucified for us. Sadists usually don't have themselves nailed to a tree.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->By Christian doctrine, God forces us into existence then demands that we repent for it, why? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, God creates us, puts us in paradise, and then we reject Him, and we must repent for that.
Let us remember, Hell isn't God's punishment, it is God turning his back on those who reject Him. We reject Him, and he Rejects us. Sounds fair.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->By what standards is God held by? Is he required to love, hate, forgive, damn? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think he's required to do anything, He has no-one to answer to, yet he chooses to bless us anyway.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If he isn't, then why are we held by these standards?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We're not "held to" anything. We choose our destiny. We can either ask Christ into our lives, and live forever with Him, or we can not and not live forever with him.
And I sure as hell don't know God's motives, but he's blessed us more than anything else, so I only assume that that's His deal.
What do you consider "sexual immorality"? Morals are subjective. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, I don't think morals are subjective. Sexual immorality: sex outside of marriage.
Traditional Christians tend to have God defined entirely by The Bible. I don't understand how you can define God like this, I don't believe God is to be defined. Benevolent? Sadistic? How can you see God in such a narrow spectrum?
My belief in God is based on life, and The Bible is just support that isn't really needed. I don't know who God is or how He feels about me, the only standard I have to judge Him by is what He created, not what is written about Him.
First, not all Christians believe in purgatory. Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox do. As you saw, most Protestants fervently deny its existence (or rather, this name), but they're split (as they are usually) on whether some kind of "middle state" exists where the soul, being not yet prepared for God, "develops" or "progresses". The popular protestant C.S. Lewis, for example, explicitly believed in purgatory.
Second, given that
1) early Christians prayed for the dead
2) God is just and punishes all sin
3) God is pure and tolerates no evil,
the Church infers that the soul, before it may unite with God, is punished for its venial sins and thus sanctified. This process involves some kind of discomfort, but may be eased by the prayers of the living.
Third, whatever else may be said about purgatory, its place, its duration, the presence of "fire", whether the joy of God's closeness outweighs the pain etc., is purely speculative and not governed by doctrine.
That one would have kept me awake at night if I was a Christian <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Okay, despite the MASSIVE urge to flame you for that comment, I won't.... However, I suggest you keep offensive remarks (Yes, that offended me. You're saying that I'm blind, when Christianity itself enforces blind faith in one deity, and saying that I'm on the path to destruction. (*cough"You are on the way to destruction. You have no chance to survive, make your time."cough* Sorry, couldn't resist.)) away from the forums. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Im sorry that I offended you, and anybody else. I didnt want to offend anybody, but I am sorry that I did
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Is it possible that God could mircrowave a burrito so hot that he himself could not eat it?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No. if he even wanted to eat a burrito in the first place...
Its really easy to never break the rules when you are the one who sets them, is the last authority on them, the measure against which everything is judged, and have the right to change them at will.
BTW I'm glad you apologised there boggle - I winced when I read ur original statement. A lot of people dont take kindly to being told they are going to burn forever. Even if that is true still not a good idea to say it. But you apologised so all better now. GJ <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I want to add that in this case, as in many others, Catholic dogma is <i>less</i> offensive (and less inconsistent) than Protestant rhetorics. The only <i>eternal</i> punishment those atheists who die without grievous personal sin face is that they will never behold the beatific vision of God and will never be elated to super-natural happiness. Otherwise, their afterlife is not thought to be particularly unpleasant. God is just.
/me constructs theological cage for Boggle
Don't make me come over there and slap you with my King James mate.......
Every sin you commit is damning, unbelief is unforgiveable simply because said sin is refusing to ask for forgiveness.
As for the failed experament: God did not create us sinful, God created us with free will.
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Ok , the following might sound like utter blasphemy...
I have the feeling that asking someone to take the pain for you is a pretty lazy and selfish choice. Wether the person in question is masochist or not is irrelevant , but it seems the christians have an incredibly cheap way of being relieved from their sins. They don't <i>have to</i> work to help others , be forgiving , compassionate ect. they can sin and then ask for forgiveness. Quite a cowardly behavior if you ask me...
Besides christian rethoric , how can you prove that the "unforgiveable sin" has not been invented just to scare unbelievers and motivate them to join the christian faith faster ?
More over , if you claim God didn't create us sinful , then it should be understanding enough to accept us as imperfect , potentially unbelieving beings. Knowing the human race it created , God should forgive unbelievers.
Though it is logical that God would like us to ask for forgiveness when we make poor use of our free will , I don't think it would encourage us to bow down all day , tell the most ridiculous tales of our miserable lives to priests , and faintly pray for forgiveness ; neither damn people to hell because of one past personal decision. It is one thing to be modest , but an other to be low and degrade oneself. I ask people to forgive my stupidity when I'm proven wrong , but I don't beg for mercy when there is no evidence of my guilt.
Final question: Why do you presume you know God's intentions? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I guess for the same reason people insist there is a god <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Athiests may appear not to have anything to worry about, but remember the Matrix? "what is the matrix?" "it is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth" Its like that with atheists. They have been blinded and cannot see the cliff of eternal destruction they are heading towards. They will have plenty to worry about for the rest of eternity, dont worry. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thehehee...thanks. That just made my otherwise awful day <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
My plan is to live like an atheist until I'm 80 or so and then start praying and doing all the jesus stuff. Just to be on the safe side <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->. Because God forgives even the worst sinner as long as he has believed in god for his last 5 secs, I'm going to heaven in any case. Unless I get hit by a truck, that is.
Stakhanov, the punishment for sin is death. There is absolutely nothing that we can do to make up for sin. You sin, you die. Thems the rules. God cannot have an imperfect being near him - and hence humans are separated from God. However he did create these humans, and he really did want them to be with him, so he goes about a plan.
To pay for sin, someone has to suffer the pain of death. So I'll send Jesus to Earth, make him fully human, throw all the blame on him, let him be killed, and then he can bring himself back. That way, at the end of the day, everyone has the option of being with me. The choice is theirs.
We get this from the Bible, and despite what Bosnian says, you take away the Bible and the Christians havent got squat to base anything on.
No, they dont have to work to help others. They SHOULD, but they dont have to. And if you are in a comitted relationship with Jesus Christ and you werent helping others, I would assume that maybe your relationship isnt as strong as it should/could be.
And again, God damns no one to hell. He gives you the option while you are on Earth. You wanna be wit me? You say yes or no. If the option is no, then he places you where he ISNT. And as you have never actually been in a place where God is, you have no idea what its like. Me neither, but I cant imagine it being fun.
And Dread, there is more to being a Christian and going to heaven than saying a prayer on your deathbed, better rethink that strategy mate.