In all likelihood, these guys were arms dealers. But what makes me uncomfortable is when some of you guys are like "they're <b>terrorists!</b>" as if they weren't people. Everyone there is a soldier in this war; they're fighting on the "other side," but that doesn't make their deaths less lamentable. As someone said, all 3 of those men were someone's sons, went to school, grew up in a house with brothers and sisters and friends and played baseball in the field (maybe) ... are they not human? Are they not simply our own selves in a different country?
And whoever wants to see that mine video... I didn't see it... but ... that's just frightening that someone could be so gung-ho about people gruesomely dying.
And movies aren't as bad as this, this is 1000000000x worse... because these are REAL lives being ended here.
I know it's unavoidable, but from the way they communicated on the radio, did they intend to take out the vehicles even if they could of just taken out the individuals cleanly? Especially that wounded guy at the end, "Hit the truck and him." - The positioning of the crosshair could of been done to have left the truck intact. Couldn't they have saved the vehicles to give/sell to other Iraqi citizens? The intelligence seemed to suggest that they knew there were only three people there. What a waste.
And why was it that necessary to finish off that last guy when he's already been effectively neutralized? To prevent a drain in resources of medical care to enemies? Euthanization?
I just saw it, and right up until the shooting I was thinking "oh god, they don't even know there's an apatche looking right at them and they're about to be blown into chunks."
When the shooting began I was thinking both "OMG!" and "Well, better to be safe, it's not <i>very</i> likely that they were discussing tractor repairs in the middle of a field in the middle of the night, but I wouldn't want to have to be the gunner."
When the guy was rolling around injured and they ordered the gunner to shoot him I just thought "Oh god no...."
I have no doubt whatsoever that "thing" they had was a weapon of some kind, so it's probably best that they didn't take the risk of letting them go but I still wonder; just what threat did they think the injured guy posed?
<!--QuoteBegin--SuperTeflon+Jan 16 2004, 02:14 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SuperTeflon @ Jan 16 2004, 02:14 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No matter how many people here are shedding alligator tears, I don't think anyone truely cares. Sure it sounds callous but seriously people, I don't believe a single on of your sob stories about how tragic and emotionally distraught you feel. Give it a rest. Does your mom cover your eyes when you watch CNN because it gives you nightmares? Didn't think so. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If no one cared about the death of a fellow human being, there would have been no "War on Terrorism" following the September 11th attack. Never believe for a second, that just because you don't feel such an emotion, that no one else on this thread may feel compassion for those 3 men.
Just because they're <i>terrorists</i> doesn't mean they're not human. They might have showed us no mercy, but what overall good does it do when we show them none? Do you feel better now that they have been "pwnt"? Does their pwntage bring back the thousands of lives lost in terrorist attacks around the world? Or does it simply satisfy some spiritual craving for violence against all others? An eye for an eye can only make the world blind, said Ghandi.
MonsE: Thanks for clearing that up... I had my doubts :\.
I think they wouldn't send an Apache to look for suspicious people to shoot without proof. So IMHO they were arms dealers and deserved to die.
[own, strange opinion]And they died in a funny way. I was thinking "WTH l0l!" from the beginning of the shooting and thought "Alright, it were only humans.." at the end of the movie[/own, strange opinion]
<!--QuoteBegin--cri.tical+Jan 16 2004, 02:56 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cri.tical @ Jan 16 2004, 02:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--DiscoZombie+Jan 16 2004, 02:18 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DiscoZombie @ Jan 16 2004, 02:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> how many of those civilians deserved to die... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Every one of them deserved to die, per the rules. "Deserved" is an intangible human idea that can mean anything you want. You can't break the laws of life, and the steadiest of those is death.
Everybody on this forum will die too. We all "deserve" it depending on who you ask.
As for those Iraqi arms dealers, war is tough; peace can't be acheived. You can't remain naive to that. Sometimes your best option is to force a temporary peace than to live in a world where violence is proliferating.
And for you guys that call the Iraqis Terrorists, lets have a <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=28&t=59358' target='_blank'>discussion on the definition of terrorist</a> on the discussion forum. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Mm, cri.tical puts out a very good point, and I congratulate him on making a very good post...
<!--QuoteBegin--Swiftspear+Jan 16 2004, 07:01 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Jan 16 2004, 07:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The other one was kind of cool, how often do you get to see a real 30.cal in action? But refresh my memory, why do you want to see people being cubed by a anti vehicle mine? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> its a 30 mm cannon, (at least thats what my friend who viewed it and the ppl in that forum said. and i would like to see people cubed by a mine, i find it intresting to see what horrible weapons do to people throughout all the wars, call me a sick **** or whatever but i find war, and weapons intresting. so if anyone has the link to that clip PM me with it or something cause i wanna view it
eh my bad i think a 30.cal is the same as a 30mm no?
Zig...I am Captain Planet!Join Date: 2002-10-23Member: 1576Members
<!--QuoteBegin--MonsieurEvil+Jan 16 2004, 02:23 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MonsieurEvil @ Jan 16 2004, 02:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This footage was released by the Dept. of Defense. Do you really think they gave this to ABC TV because they were unsure of who the targets were? 'Common sense' is to 'off-topic forums' as 'hippy' is to 'bathed'. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> well-said. seriously.
Zig...I am Captain Planet!Join Date: 2002-10-23Member: 1576Members
<!--QuoteBegin--Diablus+Jan 16 2004, 04:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Diablus @ Jan 16 2004, 04:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Swiftspear+Jan 16 2004, 07:01 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Jan 16 2004, 07:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The other one was kind of cool, how often do you get to see a real 30.cal in action? But refresh my memory, why do you want to see people being cubed by a anti vehicle mine? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> its a 30 mm cannon, (at least thats what my friend who viewed it and the ppl in that forum said. and i would like to see people cubed by a mine, i find it intresting to see what horrible weapons do to people throughout all the wars, call me a sick **** or whatever but i find war, and weapons intresting. so if anyone has the link to that clip PM me with it or something cause i wanna view it
eh my bad i think a 30.cal is the same as a 30mm no? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> lol NOOO noooo no it's not the same.
<!--QuoteBegin--DiscoZombie+Jan 15 2004, 11:18 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DiscoZombie @ Jan 15 2004, 11:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I always have to refer to <a href='http://www.iraqbodycount.net/bodycount.htm' target='_blank'>the Iraq body count</a>, and ask how many of those civilians deserved to die... and ask people to compare those numbers to the numbers who died in the world trade center destruction, which had nothing to do with iraq... and ask people who the biggest terrorists are...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That page states in bold text that, "In the current occupation phase this database includes all deaths which the Occupying Authority has a binding responsibility to prevent under the Geneva Conventions and Hague Regulations. This includes civilian deaths resulting from the breakdown in law and order, and deaths due to inadequate health care or sanitation. " The largest entries are just counting people in morgues regardless of how they died. If you count the number of people in New York morgues around the time of the WTC collapse, you'd get a higher number, too. Also remember that on a typical day the WTC could hold 50,000 people, and the terrorists didn't know or care how many casulties they caused.
Let's assume for a minute that I agree with the Iraq Body Count's contention that because the U.S. Army is duty-bound to keep the peace and protect civilian lives while it's an Occupying Authority, any death (car bombings? bad water?) is the responsibility of the United States (those types of deaths are being listed in the numbers provided). When you have a group of guerillas attacking their own people (and U.S. soldiers), a response that includes doing things like attacking illegal arms dealers is necessary if you're going to reverse a "breakdown in law and order"--and the Iraq body count page is holding the U.S. morally accountable to protect citizens who are being attacked.
If you believe the U.S. Army is morally responsible for the deaths of civilians by car bombs, I wonder if you also believe that all of the gunfire casualties are being caused by U.S. Army bullets. I truly wish that Bush had let the U.N. control the rebuilding of Iraq, and I feel that the Iraq campaign could never be justified by the WTC because Saddam and Al Queda have never collaborated--but the specific act depicted by that video is something the U.S. is obligated to do by Geneva and Hague as described by the Iraq Body Count page.
I believe the biggest terrorists, by the way, are the men who are planting car bombs among their own people to stir anti-U.S. sentiment.
<!--QuoteBegin--Swiftspear+Jan 16 2004, 03:45 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Jan 16 2004, 03:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> How the hell do you know thier terrorists? They could have been any random group of guys digging up irragation pipes. Who the hell runs out into a field and tosses a rocket launcher on the ground? Even if those guys were terrorists, you trust some moron in a couple thosand feet up who can't see **** all to make the dicision, judge jury and executioner? Not everyone in Iraq is a terrorist, in fact the terrorists are the VAST minoraty.
People wonder why muslims would fly airplanes into the world trade center. Well if my father and brother got brutally killed while working the field one day, and the canadian government told the americans did it, you'd just see how many people I would get through before they took me down (in gunfire or worse im sure). Your stupid moron government has made these people furious at your contry, they don't know anything about you, they just hate you, the same way the allies soldiers hated the nazis in WWII. They don't care who they kill, they just want you to know what you did to them. They live in the middle east for god sakes, these arn't the most educated people, they have no idea who is really to blame. Input some hiltler like nut (angered and battle hardend to the tee) to lead them and your end result is pretty obvious. No one deserves to die, not the terrorists to say the least, expecially not the ones who are planning stuff but haven't actually done anything yet. They are not some lunitic force of evil, get off your damn high horse. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Since when do irrigation pipes glow brighter then a human body on a thermal camera? Please, I would love to know.
rocket launchers have internal heaters?, I wonder if that was really thermal imaging, in all the thermal images I've ever seen the car engines glow brightly.
What the hell purpose would it serve to fake a video like this? All it's done is get people **** off, it's not like the government doesn't have enough protesters already.
<!--QuoteBegin--Gadzuko+Jan 17 2004, 11:22 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gadzuko @ Jan 17 2004, 11:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What the hell purpose would it serve to fake a video like this? All it's done is get people **** off, it's not like the government doesn't have enough protesters already. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Er... to **** people off, maybe?
Man, it was just poor farmers doing horiculture in the pitch black in the middle of a war :rollseyes:
Keep in mind the men in that chopper had 1000% more information than us, they knew exactly who the men were, or were expected to be and what they were doing in a feild at 3 in the morning. Nor were they looking through a blurry, low res .mpeg
There is a story about that tape that says basically that...though it should be obvious we dont have all the details.
<!--QuoteBegin--SoulSkorpion+Jan 16 2004, 10:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SoulSkorpion @ Jan 16 2004, 10:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Gadzuko+Jan 17 2004, 11:22 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gadzuko @ Jan 17 2004, 11:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What the hell purpose would it serve to fake a video like this? All it's done is get people **** off, it's not like the government doesn't have enough protesters already. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Er... to **** people off, maybe? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I meant to say, what would be the point of the government faking it. They don't need to **** people off.
<!--QuoteBegin--Gadzuko+Jan 17 2004, 12:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gadzuko @ Jan 17 2004, 12:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--SoulSkorpion+Jan 16 2004, 10:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SoulSkorpion @ Jan 16 2004, 10:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Gadzuko+Jan 17 2004, 11:22 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gadzuko @ Jan 17 2004, 11:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What the hell purpose would it serve to fake a video like this? All it's done is get people **** off, it's not like the government doesn't have enough protesters already. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Er... to **** people off, maybe? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I meant to say, what would be the point of the government faking it. They don't need to **** people off. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well yeah, there's be no point in the US government faking it. There might be point in anti-war peoples faking it, though. Not that I'm suggesting anything either way - just saying.
Wow, until this post I never knew that there we so many damn tree huggers here.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Posted on Jan 16 2004, 09:38 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Welcome to war. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly.
I don't have lots of hatred, but I am a realistic kind of person. I know when we go to war, there will be DEATHS. Big shocker there. And even worse, death of innocent people! Boohoo, you guys act like the whole world is going to end when one person dies.
**** happens. This isn't a perfect world, and if you can't get that through your thick head, then get a reality check.
[btw: this was my reply to someone who said he couldnt beleive how much hatred people have in here. I'm not just blowing off steam <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> ]
What do trees have to do with war? Somebody isn't automatically a "tree hugger" if they raise a question about the video.
The whole point, as MonsE always says, is about getting people to think. Questions are good, they show people <i>are</i> thinking. No reason for a hostile attitude towards that.
I could care less about the **** trees. I just don't find it funny that someones father or brother or son got mowed the **** down, and before I knew some of the backing (I didn't know this came form ABC, for all I knew it was sneaked out some jackass wanting to show is friends the towel heads he killed) I was pretty flamed at the way it was done.
<!--QuoteBegin--Swiftspear+Jan 17 2004, 12:07 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Jan 17 2004, 12:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I could care less about the **** trees. I just don't find it funny that someones father or brother or son got mowed the **** down, and before I knew some of the backing (I didn't know this came form ABC, for all I knew it was sneaked out some jackass wanting to show is friends the towel heads he killed) I was pretty flamed at the way it was done. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Bah....If someones son/father/brother was a terrorist, then he deserves to die.
<!--QuoteBegin--DuBERS+Jan 17 2004, 01:00 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DuBERS @ Jan 17 2004, 01:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> But who says that is for us to decide Mullet? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That soldiers 30mm weapon.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>"Good... bad... I'm the guy with the gun."</b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
BTW: Mullet, .30 cal = 300 thousanths of an inch.
The Apache M203 cannon fires 30mm, almost 1.15 inches <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--SuperTeflon+Jan 17 2004, 01:02 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SuperTeflon @ Jan 17 2004, 01:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>"Good... bad... I'm the guy with the gun."</b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
BTW: Mullet, .30 cal = 300 thousanths of an inch.
The Apache M203 cannon fires 30mm, almost 1.15 inches <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Quite a difference in 'hole punchage' there <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Don't know why I put .30 cal.....Thanks for the correction <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Its great that you guys are so sensitive to this. It blows all em 'video games desensitizes(sp) violence' theories right outta the water. Too bad the media will never know what has been said here about what THEY put out.
BizZy_9mm_MessiahOld School MemberJoin Date: 2003-07-25Member: 18411Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin--Umbraed Monkey+Jan 17 2004, 09:15 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Umbraed Monkey @ Jan 17 2004, 09:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Its great that you guys are so sensitive to this. It blows all em 'video games desensitizes(sp) violence' theories right outta the water. Too bad the media will never know what has been said here about what THEY put out. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--DuBERS+Jan 17 2004, 03:00 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DuBERS @ Jan 17 2004, 03:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> But who says that is for us to decide Mullet? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> What kind of stupid question is that?
Comments
In all likelihood, these guys were arms dealers. But what makes me uncomfortable is when some of you guys are like "they're <b>terrorists!</b>" as if they weren't people. Everyone there is a soldier in this war; they're fighting on the "other side," but that doesn't make their deaths less lamentable. As someone said, all 3 of those men were someone's sons, went to school, grew up in a house with brothers and sisters and friends and played baseball in the field (maybe) ... are they not human? Are they not simply our own selves in a different country?
And whoever wants to see that mine video... I didn't see it... but ... that's just frightening that someone could be so gung-ho about people gruesomely dying.
And movies aren't as bad as this, this is 1000000000x worse... because these are REAL lives being ended here.
And why was it that necessary to finish off that last guy when he's already been effectively neutralized? To prevent a drain in resources of medical care to enemies? Euthanization?
When the shooting began I was thinking both "OMG!" and "Well, better to be safe, it's not <i>very</i> likely that they were discussing tractor repairs in the middle of a field in the middle of the night, but I wouldn't want to have to be the gunner."
When the guy was rolling around injured and they ordered the gunner to shoot him I just thought "Oh god no...."
I have no doubt whatsoever that "thing" they had was a weapon of some kind, so it's probably best that they didn't take the risk of letting them go but I still wonder; just what threat did they think the injured guy posed?
If no one cared about the death of a fellow human being, there would have been no "War on Terrorism" following the September 11th attack. Never believe for a second, that just because you don't feel such an emotion, that no one else on this thread may feel compassion for those 3 men.
Just because they're <i>terrorists</i> doesn't mean they're not human. They might have showed us no mercy, but what overall good does it do when we show them none? Do you feel better now that they have been "pwnt"? Does their pwntage bring back the thousands of lives lost in terrorist attacks around the world? Or does it simply satisfy some spiritual craving for violence against all others? An eye for an eye can only make the world blind, said Ghandi.
MonsE: Thanks for clearing that up... I had my doubts :\.
[own, strange opinion]And they died in a funny way. I was thinking "WTH l0l!" from the beginning of the shooting and thought "Alright, it were only humans.." at the end of the movie[/own, strange opinion]
Every one of them deserved to die, per the rules. "Deserved" is an intangible human idea that can mean anything you want. You can't break the laws of life, and the steadiest of those is death.
Everybody on this forum will die too. We all "deserve" it depending on who you ask.
As for those Iraqi arms dealers, war is tough; peace can't be acheived. You can't remain naive to that. Sometimes your best option is to force a temporary peace than to live in a world where violence is proliferating.
And for you guys that call the Iraqis Terrorists, lets have a <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=28&t=59358' target='_blank'>discussion on the definition of terrorist</a> on the discussion forum. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mm, cri.tical puts out a very good point, and I congratulate him on making a very good post...
that has managed to offend noone. amazing.
its a 30 mm cannon, (at least thats what my friend who viewed it and the ppl in that forum said. and i would like to see people cubed by a mine, i find it intresting to see what horrible weapons do to people throughout all the wars, call me a sick **** or whatever but i find war, and weapons intresting. so if anyone has the link to that clip PM me with it or something cause i wanna view it
eh my bad i think a 30.cal is the same as a 30mm no?
that is what you call h4x. and that's why first world countries are the best countries.. 0_0
well-said. seriously.
its a 30 mm cannon, (at least thats what my friend who viewed it and the ppl in that forum said. and i would like to see people cubed by a mine, i find it intresting to see what horrible weapons do to people throughout all the wars, call me a sick **** or whatever but i find war, and weapons intresting. so if anyone has the link to that clip PM me with it or something cause i wanna view it
eh my bad i think a 30.cal is the same as a 30mm no? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol NOOO noooo no it's not the same.
That page states in bold text that, "In the current occupation phase this database includes all deaths which the Occupying Authority has a binding responsibility to prevent under the Geneva Conventions and Hague Regulations. This includes civilian deaths resulting from the breakdown in law and order, and deaths due to inadequate health care or sanitation. " The largest entries are just counting people in morgues regardless of how they died. If you count the number of people in New York morgues around the time of the WTC collapse, you'd get a higher number, too. Also remember that on a typical day the WTC could hold 50,000 people, and the terrorists didn't know or care how many casulties they caused.
Let's assume for a minute that I agree with the Iraq Body Count's contention that because the U.S. Army is duty-bound to keep the peace and protect civilian lives while it's an Occupying Authority, any death (car bombings? bad water?) is the responsibility of the United States (those types of deaths are being listed in the numbers provided). When you have a group of guerillas attacking their own people (and U.S. soldiers), a response that includes doing things like attacking illegal arms dealers is necessary if you're going to reverse a "breakdown in law and order"--and the Iraq body count page is holding the U.S. morally accountable to protect citizens who are being attacked.
If you believe the U.S. Army is morally responsible for the deaths of civilians by car bombs, I wonder if you also believe that all of the gunfire casualties are being caused by U.S. Army bullets. I truly wish that Bush had let the U.N. control the rebuilding of Iraq, and I feel that the Iraq campaign could never be justified by the WTC because Saddam and Al Queda have never collaborated--but the specific act depicted by that video is something the U.S. is obligated to do by Geneva and Hague as described by the Iraq Body Count page.
I believe the biggest terrorists, by the way, are the men who are planting car bombs among their own people to stir anti-U.S. sentiment.
People wonder why muslims would fly airplanes into the world trade center. Well if my father and brother got brutally killed while working the field one day, and the canadian government told the americans did it, you'd just see how many people I would get through before they took me down (in gunfire or worse im sure). Your stupid moron government has made these people furious at your contry, they don't know anything about you, they just hate you, the same way the allies soldiers hated the nazis in WWII. They don't care who they kill, they just want you to know what you did to them. They live in the middle east for god sakes, these arn't the most educated people, they have no idea who is really to blame. Input some hiltler like nut (angered and battle hardend to the tee) to lead them and your end result is pretty obvious. No one deserves to die, not the terrorists to say the least, expecially not the ones who are planning stuff but haven't actually done anything yet. They are not some lunitic force of evil, get off your damn high horse. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Since when do irrigation pipes glow brighter then a human body on a thermal camera? Please, I would love to know.
Er... to **** people off, maybe?
Keep in mind the men in that chopper had 1000% more information than us, they knew exactly who the men were, or were expected to be and what they were doing in a feild at 3 in the morning. Nor were they looking through a blurry, low res .mpeg
There is a story about that tape that says basically that...though it should be obvious we dont have all the details.
Er... to **** people off, maybe? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I meant to say, what would be the point of the government faking it. They don't need to **** people off.
Er... to **** people off, maybe? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I meant to say, what would be the point of the government faking it. They don't need to **** people off. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well yeah, there's be no point in the US government faking it. There might be point in anti-war peoples faking it, though. Not that I'm suggesting anything either way - just saying.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Posted on Jan 16 2004, 09:38 PM
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Welcome to war. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly.
I don't have lots of hatred, but I am a realistic kind of person. I know when we go to war, there will be DEATHS. Big shocker there. And even worse, death of innocent people! Boohoo, you guys act like the whole world is going to end when one person dies.
**** happens. This isn't a perfect world, and if you can't get that through your thick head, then get a reality check.
[btw: this was my reply to someone who said he couldnt beleive how much hatred people have in here. I'm not just blowing off steam <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> ]
The whole point, as MonsE always says, is about getting people to think. Questions are good, they show people <i>are</i> thinking. No reason for a hostile attitude towards that.
Bah....If someones son/father/brother was a terrorist, then he deserves to die.
That soldiers 30mm weapon.
BTW: Mullet, .30 cal = 300 thousanths of an inch.
The Apache M203 cannon fires 30mm, almost 1.15 inches <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Quite a difference in 'hole punchage' there
BTW: Mullet, .30 cal = 300 thousanths of an inch.
The Apache M203 cannon fires 30mm, almost 1.15 inches <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Quite a difference in 'hole punchage' there <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't know why I put .30 cal.....Thanks for the correction <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Ownage. Plain and simple.
What kind of stupid question is that?
It's kill or be killed.