They are <b>humans</b>. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> And now they're dead <b>humans</b>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Who is to say who is right? The guy with the biggest gun? Does that make him right? Does that even give him the right to think he is right? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Since when was war about being right? And yes- the guy with the biggest gun pertty much gives has the right to do anything he wants, becuase who is going to stop him?
If the Apache crew just opened fire, then I'd feel bad. However they waited for the correct amount of information to come in, saw the weapon, and took action.
Maybe people in Iraq just loves going on in the night , meet up a guy whos waiting beside a truck in the country side then throw some stuff into a field and wait for a tractor to pick it up.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->fire infront of the truck ... get them both<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Zig...I am Captain Planet!Join Date: 2002-10-23Member: 1576Members
edited January 2004
there's a real problem with ALL of the attitudes here..
patriots who say, "go ahead, kill the baddies" have a lack of sympathy.. but sympathists who say, "why kill them, they're people too" have a lack of acceptance.
both of these are a lack of understanding of the situation.
i suppose someone at that forum said it best: "Honestly, I feel bad for those guys, they didn't even know what hit em. ::shakes head:: I would never go up against this country, why can't these guys figure that out."
though it could be interpreted as another "kill em all" statement, it's not. i couldn't sum up my own feelings until i read what he said. there is no issue of "why we kill them" or "who they are". they just DIE.
we are the United States of America, and at this point in time, we are unfortunately also the United Judges, Juries, and Executioners of Earth.
and we kill accordingly.
the solution is not to stop attacking the enemy. the terrorists, enemy soldiers, gun runners, all of them... they're in denial. they don't GET it.
they don't GET that they're going to be captured.. or don't GET that they're just going to DIE.
<i>"Honestly, I feel bad for those guys, they didn't even know what hit em. I would never go up against this country, why can't these guys figure that out."</i>
<!--QuoteBegin--Mullet+Jan 17 2004, 07:59 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mullet @ Jan 17 2004, 07:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Bah....If someones son/father/brother was a terrorist, then he deserves to die. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Or, as you might heard said somewhere around the middle east...
"Bah! If someone's son/father/brother is an American, then he deserves to die!" And then the suicide bomb will ensure that he was the one who decided that.
For all the people that posted their shock at how the pilots were so quick to kill and had no mercy for men. I want to put something in perspective…
Lets pretend that you were a helicopter pilot. By this point you were a seasoned veteran you’ve seen battles and you’ve been shot at you’ve seen what an RPG can do. Just a couple of weeks ago you were flying air support for a military convey then out of nowhere an ambush shoots a volley of RPG’s at you. Luckily you get out of the way…but you wingman doesn’t… He takes 1 right into the cockpit and another in his rear propeller, the bird instantly goes down. Your watching as your best friend and the only person in the world that you would trust with your life fall to the earth in a smoking fireball. As your watching in tears knowing that he’s dead you get clipped by another RPG and start to go down to. You serve the crash and can see one of the men that shot you down. You see him reloading the RPG to put the coup de grace into you but luckily the convoy comes to your rescue. A couple of weeks later your back in the air flying, trying to forget about the lose of your wingman. So your patrolling the area and you find what looks like an arms dealer selling weapons and…holy crap…you see a guy run into a field with what you think to be a RPG!!! Are you going to let what happened to your wingman happen to another pilot? Are you going to risk the chance of someone getting away? No…I think you would want to put that RPG and any man using it out of action as soon as possible.
I do realize that there is a lot of speculation in this little story, but I do believe that’s its just as possible as them being innocent farmers out for a stroll to fix their tractor with a long tube(if this is true then why was the second guy, that was shot, start ripping the cover off of his little tractor part with what looked like intent to use it, as someone else pointed out). So I guess the whole point of my post is that pilots don’t like RPGs…I hope you can guess why by now…
The video was amazing. That's all I have to say about that.
Although, I will mention that it seems that the 12-round burst of the cannon was a bit overkill. It seemed like 6 shots would have done the job, even taking into account the scatter. I'm not sure whether the cannon is programmed to burst like that on a trigger pull, or whether the gunner has to hold down the trigger.
Zig...I am Captain Planet!Join Date: 2002-10-23Member: 1576Members
<!--QuoteBegin--Wheeee+Jan 17 2004, 01:55 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wheeee @ Jan 17 2004, 01:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The video was amazing. That's all I have to say about that.
Although, I will mention that it seems that the 12-round burst of the cannon was a bit overkill. It seemed like 6 shots would have done the job, even taking into account the scatter. I'm not sure whether the cannon is programmed to burst like that on a trigger pull, or whether the gunner has to hold down the trigger. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> it wasn't overkill, because the helicopter is not stationary but flying, and thus the cannon is forced to deal with sway.
if the cannon must deal with sway, then in that situation the cannon might hit the truck and not the ground (thusly missing the person next to it).
Having had more time to think about it, if the guy rolling around on the floor had been hit by a 30mm, finishing him off was probably the kindest thing to do.
Whether these men "deserved" to die is irrelevent. "Deserved" is a relative term. To an Iraqi suicide bomber, all Americans might "deserve" to die, just as by your logic all terrorists might "deserve" it.
These men clearly posed a threat to the allied military in Iraq seeing as they had an anti-tank weapon and all, so as far as the apatche gunner and his superiors were concerned, they had to die. Letting them go was not an option. Taking them alive was not an option either with no ground forces in the area, and they sure as hell couldn't just get out and say "You're under arrest".
Yes, people died, tragedy, boohoo, but plenty of other people could have been saved by this act of "murder", we don't know how many more such weapons these guys had.
well what they had was and RPG, almost as tall as a man but not quite.... And now that I watch it again, defnatley an RPG, long tube, sight on the right side (you can somewhat see it) and the deformed end and the grenade ont he end. I can see it atleast. They were prolyl running out there to drop it off for someone else to come by and take it.
And wow... That guy ddidnt gib, he splattered... either that was his body or that was the biggest puddle of blood ive ever seen.
And to all teh people saying they shouldnt have killed the wounded guy, it was prolly good that they did otherwise he prolly woulda bled out and died real slow and painfully.
<!--QuoteBegin--Zig+Jan 17 2004, 02:14 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zig @ Jan 17 2004, 02:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Wheeee+Jan 17 2004, 01:55 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wheeee @ Jan 17 2004, 01:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The video was amazing. That's all I have to say about that.
Although, I will mention that it seems that the 12-round burst of the cannon was a bit overkill. It seemed like 6 shots would have done the job, even taking into account the scatter. I'm not sure whether the cannon is programmed to burst like that on a trigger pull, or whether the gunner has to hold down the trigger. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> it wasn't overkill, because the helicopter is not stationary but flying, and thus the cannon is forced to deal with sway.
if the cannon must deal with sway, then in that situation the cannon might hit the truck and not the ground (thusly missing the person next to it).
i think it was just to be safe. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Crap, that's crazy... what is the range of the cannon? And what is the noise range of the helicopter? No wait, they screwed up the first time... what's the noise range of a 30mm cannon?
I can't believe they had THAT much stealth... if those Iraqis realized the presence of a helicopter just when the first guy died, I'd be surprised if the guy ripping off the canvas of the RPG would even know where to shoot.
<!--QuoteBegin--kiwi_3+Jan 17 2004, 05:47 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kiwi_3 @ Jan 17 2004, 05:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This is sad. The US military makes killing enemies (real, breathing human beings) look like a video game... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> duh they've doen that since the late sixties. They use video games to train soldiers too! (Virtual Reality battlefields) Get used to it. Its the way of the future. (sorta like A-Tracks!)
<!--QuoteBegin--DuBERS+Jan 17 2004, 08:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DuBERS @ Jan 17 2004, 08:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The stupidity and ignorance in this thread is the most alarming combination I have ever seen. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> .....
The reactions I've seen so far in the thread are almost exactly as I'd expect they'd be <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I imagine some of the people would totally freak out if they saw the AC-130 gun camera footage that's out on the web.
Both are sobering, but I'm not prepared to go much beyond that since we're not there and we don't know what's going on. Try not to jump to too many conclusions.
<!--QuoteBegin--cshank4+Jan 18 2004, 12:37 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cshank4 @ Jan 18 2004, 12:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And to all teh people saying they shouldnt have killed the wounded guy, it was prolly good that they did otherwise he prolly woulda bled out and died real slow and painfully. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Seconded. Did anyone else notice that his lower right leg was missing? They did him a favour finishing him off.
It's dangerous to let the enemy escape just because you feel "sorry" that you can kill him so methodically and effectively.
If you let them retreat, then they can regroup. If you let them regroup, they can counter-attack and kill you, or one of your comrades.
Surrender or die. That's all there is to it. And if you don't have a chance to surrender? Tough luck, that's what happens when you're aiding the enemy.
War has been happening since the beginning of recorded history. It's sobering to see it, but don't be shocked that people die. What do you think they DID in war all this time? We've been disconnected from it simply because we're not there, and we only catch 10 second cutscenes on the news. But in reality, it's really not impersonal. It's not a game. You're there, and often you can see the enemy in good detail as we've seen here. Yeah, you can even feel their helplessness. It doesn't seem fair. Course, it's not about being fair, and it works both ways. It doesn't seem fair that they lay booby traps that kill civilians and soldiers too. Feels like a cheap tactic. But again, that's the nature of the beast.
"It is well that war is so terrible. We should grow too fond of it." Robert E. Lee
Seems fairly appropriate. He knew what he was talking about.
To tell the truth, I feel more sorry about the apaches we've lost.
The problem is though that there is never a set number of terrorists. If you were to eliminate every single saboteur right now, the grief of their death would then spurn their friends/family to take their place. The ultimate solution would then be to nuke enemy and innocent alike, because any given "innocent" has the potential to become part of the enemy.
And we can't stop there either; since those BSers get people to believe that this is an attack on Islam, we have sympathizers from other nations who become anti-American, and the cycle starts all over again until there's no one left there to "free" from terrorism, and nothing left to rebuild.
<!--QuoteBegin--Confuzor+Jan 17 2004, 10:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Confuzor @ Jan 17 2004, 10:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The problem is though that there is never a set number of terrorists. If you were to eliminate every single saboteur right now, the grief of their death would then spurn their friends/family to take their place. The ultimate solution would then be to nuke enemy and innocent alike, because any given "innocent" has the potential to become part of the enemy.
And we can't stop there either; since those BSers get people to believe that this is an attack on Islam, we have sympathizers from other nations who become anti-American, and the cycle starts all over again until there's no one left there to "free" from terrorism, and nothing left to rebuild. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Wrong.
<!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Jan 17 2004, 11:25 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Jan 17 2004, 11:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Confuzor+Jan 17 2004, 10:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Confuzor @ Jan 17 2004, 10:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The problem is though that there is never a set number of terrorists. If you were to eliminate every single saboteur right now, the grief of their death would then spurn their friends/family to take their place. The ultimate solution would then be to nuke enemy and innocent alike, because any given "innocent" has the potential to become part of the enemy.
And we can't stop there either; since those BSers get people to believe that this is an attack on Islam, we have sympathizers from other nations who become anti-American, and the cycle starts all over again until there's no one left there to "free" from terrorism, and nothing left to rebuild. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wrong.
Enough killing demoralizes people. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Hrm. I really don't think that's a tenable position, Forlorn.
<!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Jan 18 2004, 06:25 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Jan 18 2004, 06:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Confuzor+Jan 17 2004, 10:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Confuzor @ Jan 17 2004, 10:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The problem is though that there is never a set number of terrorists. If you were to eliminate every single saboteur right now, the grief of their death would then spurn their friends/family to take their place. The ultimate solution would then be to nuke enemy and innocent alike, because any given "innocent" has the potential to become part of the enemy.
And we can't stop there either; since those BSers get people to believe that this is an attack on Islam, we have sympathizers from other nations who become anti-American, and the cycle starts all over again until there's no one left there to "free" from terrorism, and nothing left to rebuild. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wrong.
Look at the death sentence, for example. Did starting to punish people with killing them threaten others to commit crimes? No, it didn't, as won't killing many people stop terrorists.
<!--QuoteBegin--DuBERS+Jan 17 2004, 03:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DuBERS @ Jan 17 2004, 03:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--DuBERS+Jan 17 2004, 08:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DuBERS @ Jan 17 2004, 08:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The stupidity and ignorance in this thread is the most alarming combination I have ever seen. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ..... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Why are you posting here if you think our "stupidity" and "ignorance" is so alarming?
And back to the point, I still don't see why people are making this video file such a big deal....It's war. What did you expect, a tea party?
Perhaps they expected a movie about hundreds of soldiers getting killed in a big fight where you can't concentrate on the indivudal soldier and just think "OK, this is war". Now THIS movie we have here features, how many? 3-5 people? So you get to think much more about the people you see, and some seem to have problems to think "This is war" because for them war is "hundreds of soldiers getting killed in a big fight", for those people they most likely associate this with a murder, an assassination.
Comments
Correction:
They are <b>humans</b>. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And now they're dead <b>humans</b>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Who is to say who is right? The guy with the biggest gun? Does that make him right? Does that even give him the right to think he is right?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Since when was war about being right? And yes- the guy with the biggest gun pertty much gives has the right to do anything he wants, becuase who is going to stop him?
If the Apache crew just opened fire, then I'd feel bad. However they waited for the correct amount of information to come in, saw the weapon, and took action.
think about that for a sec
BTW: Mullet, .30 cal = 300 thousanths of an inch.
The Apache M203 cannon fires 30mm, almost 1.15 inches <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Quite a difference in 'hole punchage' there <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
M203 whaaa??? O_O
i believe you mean the Hughes XM230E1. lol
the m203 is a 40mm grenade launcher attached not to the undercarriage of a helicopter, but to that of an assault rifle. XD
patriots who say, "go ahead, kill the baddies" have a lack of sympathy.. but sympathists who say, "why kill them, they're people too" have a lack of acceptance.
both of these are a lack of understanding of the situation.
i suppose someone at that forum said it best: "Honestly, I feel bad for those guys, they didn't even know what hit em. ::shakes head::
I would never go up against this country, why can't these guys figure that out."
though it could be interpreted as another "kill em all" statement, it's not. i couldn't sum up my own feelings until i read what he said. there is no issue of "why we kill them" or "who they are". they just DIE.
we are the United States of America, and at this point in time, we are unfortunately also the United Judges, Juries, and Executioners of Earth.
and we kill accordingly.
the solution is not to stop attacking the enemy. the terrorists, enemy soldiers, gun runners, all of them... they're in denial. they don't GET it.
they don't GET that they're going to be captured.. or don't GET that they're just going to DIE.
<i>"Honestly, I feel bad for those guys, they didn't even know what hit em. I would never go up against this country, why can't these guys figure that out."</i>
but the fact that they're also people doesn't mean that we're equal.
the sad fact is that we're more powerful, better equipped.. etcetera.
so they should just give up. it's **** sad, but that's the way it is.
Or, as you might heard said somewhere around the middle east...
"Bah! If someone's son/father/brother is an American, then he deserves to die!"
And then the suicide bomb will ensure that he was the one who decided that.
Just putting things in perspective.
Lets pretend that you were a helicopter pilot. By this point you were a seasoned veteran you’ve seen battles and you’ve been shot at you’ve seen what an RPG can do. Just a couple of weeks ago you were flying air support for a military convey then out of nowhere an ambush shoots a volley of RPG’s at you. Luckily you get out of the way…but you wingman doesn’t… He takes 1 right into the cockpit and another in his rear propeller, the bird instantly goes down. Your watching as your best friend and the only person in the world that you would trust with your life fall to the earth in a smoking fireball. As your watching in tears knowing that he’s dead you get clipped by another RPG and start to go down to. You serve the crash and can see one of the men that shot you down. You see him reloading the RPG to put the coup de grace into you but luckily the convoy comes to your rescue. A couple of weeks later your back in the air flying, trying to forget about the lose of your wingman. So your patrolling the area and you find what looks like an arms dealer selling weapons and…holy crap…you see a guy run into a field with what you think to be a RPG!!! Are you going to let what happened to your wingman happen to another pilot? Are you going to risk the chance of someone getting away? No…I think you would want to put that RPG and any man using it out of action as soon as possible.
I do realize that there is a lot of speculation in this little story, but I do believe that’s its just as possible as them being innocent farmers out for a stroll to fix their tractor with a long tube(if this is true then why was the second guy, that was shot, start ripping the cover off of his little tractor part with what looked like intent to use it, as someone else pointed out). So I guess the whole point of my post is that pilots don’t like RPGs…I hope you can guess why by now…
That's all I have to say about that.
Although, I will mention that it seems that the 12-round burst of the cannon was a bit overkill. It seemed like 6 shots would have done the job, even taking into account the scatter. I'm not sure whether the cannon is programmed to burst like that on a trigger pull, or whether the gunner has to hold down the trigger.
That's all I have to say about that.
Although, I will mention that it seems that the 12-round burst of the cannon was a bit overkill. It seemed like 6 shots would have done the job, even taking into account the scatter. I'm not sure whether the cannon is programmed to burst like that on a trigger pull, or whether the gunner has to hold down the trigger. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
it wasn't overkill, because the helicopter is not stationary but flying, and thus the cannon is forced to deal with sway.
if the cannon must deal with sway, then in that situation the cannon might hit the truck and not the ground (thusly missing the person next to it).
i think it was just to be safe.
Having had more time to think about it, if the guy rolling around on the floor had been hit by a 30mm, finishing him off was probably the kindest thing to do.
Whether these men "deserved" to die is irrelevent. "Deserved" is a relative term. To an Iraqi suicide bomber, all Americans might "deserve" to die, just as by your logic all terrorists might "deserve" it.
These men clearly posed a threat to the allied military in Iraq seeing as they had an anti-tank weapon and all, so as far as the apatche gunner and his superiors were concerned, they had to die. Letting them go was not an option. Taking them alive was not an option either with no ground forces in the area, and they sure as hell couldn't just get out and say "You're under arrest".
Yes, people died, tragedy, boohoo, but plenty of other people could have been saved by this act of "murder", we don't know how many more such weapons these guys had.
And wow... That guy ddidnt gib, he splattered... either that was his body or that was the biggest puddle of blood ive ever seen.
And to all teh people saying they shouldnt have killed the wounded guy, it was prolly good that they did otherwise he prolly woulda bled out and died real slow and painfully.
That's all I have to say about that.
Although, I will mention that it seems that the 12-round burst of the cannon was a bit overkill. It seemed like 6 shots would have done the job, even taking into account the scatter. I'm not sure whether the cannon is programmed to burst like that on a trigger pull, or whether the gunner has to hold down the trigger. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
it wasn't overkill, because the helicopter is not stationary but flying, and thus the cannon is forced to deal with sway.
if the cannon must deal with sway, then in that situation the cannon might hit the truck and not the ground (thusly missing the person next to it).
i think it was just to be safe. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Crap, that's crazy... what is the range of the cannon? And what is the noise range of the helicopter? No wait, they screwed up the first time... what's the noise range of a 30mm cannon?
I can't believe they had THAT much stealth... if those Iraqis realized the presence of a helicopter just when the first guy died, I'd be surprised if the guy ripping off the canvas of the RPG would even know where to shoot.
duh they've doen that since the late sixties. They use video games to train soldiers too! (Virtual Reality battlefields) Get used to it. Its the way of the future. (sorta like A-Tracks!)
Miles is the best way to train men for combat tho
.....
I imagine some of the people would totally freak out if they saw the AC-130 gun camera footage that's out on the web.
Both are sobering, but I'm not prepared to go much beyond that since we're not there and we don't know what's going on. Try not to jump to too many conclusions.
Seconded. Did anyone else notice that his lower right leg was missing? They did him a favour finishing him off.
If you let them retreat, then they can regroup. If you let them regroup, they can counter-attack and kill you, or one of your comrades.
Surrender or die. That's all there is to it. And if you don't have a chance to surrender? Tough luck, that's what happens when you're aiding the enemy.
War has been happening since the beginning of recorded history. It's sobering to see it, but don't be shocked that people die. What do you think they DID in war all this time? We've been disconnected from it simply because we're not there, and we only catch 10 second cutscenes on the news. But in reality, it's really not impersonal. It's not a game. You're there, and often you can see the enemy in good detail as we've seen here. Yeah, you can even feel their helplessness. It doesn't seem fair. Course, it's not about being fair, and it works both ways. It doesn't seem fair that they lay booby traps that kill civilians and soldiers too. Feels like a cheap tactic. But again, that's the nature of the beast.
"It is well that war is so terrible.
We should grow too fond of it."
Robert E. Lee
Seems fairly appropriate. He knew what he was talking about.
To tell the truth, I feel more sorry about the apaches we've lost.
And we can't stop there either; since those BSers get people to believe that this is an attack on Islam, we have sympathizers from other nations who become anti-American, and the cycle starts all over again until there's no one left there to "free" from terrorism, and nothing left to rebuild.
And we can't stop there either; since those BSers get people to believe that this is an attack on Islam, we have sympathizers from other nations who become anti-American, and the cycle starts all over again until there's no one left there to "free" from terrorism, and nothing left to rebuild. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong.
Enough killing demoralizes people.
And we can't stop there either; since those BSers get people to believe that this is an attack on Islam, we have sympathizers from other nations who become anti-American, and the cycle starts all over again until there's no one left there to "free" from terrorism, and nothing left to rebuild. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong.
Enough killing demoralizes people. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hrm. I really don't think that's a tenable position, Forlorn.
And we can't stop there either; since those BSers get people to believe that this is an attack on Islam, we have sympathizers from other nations who become anti-American, and the cycle starts all over again until there's no one left there to "free" from terrorism, and nothing left to rebuild. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong.
Enough killing demoralizes people. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong.
Look at the death sentence, for example. Did starting to punish people with killing them threaten others to commit crimes? No, it didn't, as won't killing many people stop terrorists.
..... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why are you posting here if you think our "stupidity" and "ignorance" is so alarming?
And back to the point, I still don't see why people are making this video file such a big deal....It's war. What did you expect, a tea party?