Fade Overpowered...
Laggasaurus
Join Date: 2003-11-13 Member: 22773Members, NS1 Playtester
Join Date: 2003-11-13 Member: 22773Members, NS1 Playtester
<div class="IPBDescription">is now too strong...</div> Basically Fade were too weak in Beta 1 but they are now too strong in Beta 3 does anyone else believe that fades are overpowered? As in a 5-10 min game going fade at lvl 4 i can usually get about 35 kills and only die once!
Comments
However in regular NS they are extreamlly strong but I wouldn't call them too strong just yet. Fades do die if you shoot them enough. Although fades making seiging the main hive very difficult in classic NS, I kinda like the role fades fill now.
No.
Run into a group with shotguns or other weapons, the fade dies. And it should be that way.
Powerful? Yes? Overpowered? Not at all.
Shotty is the only good weapon for killing a fade that isn't afk, and even then the fade will own you because of the bugged hitbox. More than half of my shotty rounds against fades end up with sparks, resulting in my death.
A combat fade is an invincible tank with the right upgrades, and should, regardless of marines' skill, get many kills and never die.
Now, that is wrong. It should cost more, maybe 3 points instead of two.
In Classic, i believe a fade is perfectly fine, and as long as the fade does not belong to the "pro" community, they will die like toilet paper. If the fades are not good at all, they will die to level2/3 LMG. If they are relatively skilled, they will die as soon as some marines with aim pick up a shotgun. If the latter two categories do not die, they will not inflict the great damage you think they always do, due to holding back/being afraid to die, allowing you more mapcontrol.
The problem in most pub classic games is that, like another guy said, commanders should stop being dumb and spend more res on earlier upgrades, and less on electrification and turrets .................................
(can toilet paper die? oh hell yes :shifty:)
"You cannot balance both combat and classic Natural Selection."
I won't elaborate on this, but if you guys need proof just read all the "overpowered" posts made. Lets face it, "beefing" up something because of classic will only make it stronger in combat, and toning down something because of combat will only make it weaker in classic.
That being said, Fades maybe overpowered in combat, but toning it down will make them once again weak in classic. The only possible solution I see to this is having two different stats for the Fades: one for classic, and one for combat; however, as stated before, the Natural Selection team does not plan to have two different stats. Tough Luck.
Run into a group with shotguns or other weapons, the fade dies. And it should be that way.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is the way it should be. Just agreeing with you. Fades arnt overpowered, teamwork is required to kill them, not a certain weapon.
Personally, I'd rather have ns_ be balanced at the expense of co_, so I wouldn't like to see the fade weakened at all.
Though fade is overpowered in combat. Don't even try to fabricate some sort of pretense stating otherwise. The fade is exceptionally durable with regen + carapace, and also possess great mobility. Both of these paired together makes it extremely hard to kill, and when you do kill it, its high speed brings it back into the battle 5x faster than it took you to kill it in the first place.
The marine equivalents each have a weakness whereas the fade does not. The jetpack has good mobility(not as good as fade, but ranged weapon makes up for it some) but low durability, HA has low mobility but good durability. Furthermore, marines require teammates to restore them to full durability, where as the fade can simply heal itself to full with hive/regen/metabolize.
However in regular NS they are extreamlly strong but I wouldn't call them too strong just yet. Fades do die if you shoot them enough. Although fades making seiging the main hive very difficult in classic NS, I kinda like the role fades fill now. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fades die, fast in scrims. A lone fade gets destroyed by 2 rines with shotguns, even with level 3 regen. I say they are perfect as they are strong if you truly hit and run and die fast if they get sloppy. I've got a new idea for combat everyone might be interested in. Ill edit in the link when its up
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=29&t=65092' target='_blank'>Link for veterans</a>
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Voleure
However in regular NS they are extreamlly strong but I wouldn't call them too strong just yet. Fades do die if you shoot them enough. Although fades making seiging the main hive very difficult in classic NS, I kinda like the role fades fill now. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fades die, fast in scrims. A lone fade gets destroyed by 2 rines with shotguns, even with level 3 regen. I say they are perfect as they are strong if you truly hit and run and die fast if they get sloppy. I've got a new idea for combat everyone might be interested in. Ill edit in the link when its up
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=29&t=65092' target='_blank'>Link for veterans</a>
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=39&t=65093' target='_blank'>Link for public beta</a> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fade destroyed by 2 shotgunners? That's how it was in 2.0, and fades kicked enough butt at the time. Fades have more effective life due to the sparks bug, so they're not wet tissue in NS.
In classic fades are fine, if the marines have been upgrading their armor and weapons they should kill fades with no problems. In Combat ... let the good players go on rampages and just not calculate them in the balance issue of the fade. Balance it for classic, and let combat end up how it will.
Not to burst your bubble, but I consider myself a really worthless fade and will do better than a wimpy 12:1 with full upgrades. Fading in co_ is probably too easy, I'll give people that. But then co_ is a crappy concept anyway, and needs to have only one side on the offense <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
In ns_ I'm undecided, but I'd tend towards saying he's fine. He has a set of weaknesses, and his only real strength lies in blink - after all, classic fades usually come with regeneration only or Regen/Cel if the 'rines screw up a bit.
Level three shotguns hurt fades a ton, and is about the only effective way to kill them. Do alot of damage in a short amount of time so they don't have a chance to blink away.
And saltzbad, I won't go into what's a good record for fades or whatever, but I usually spend 75% of my time as a fade in marine start being shot at. With the current blink you can just fly around and slash people constantly and dodge all their shots, retreat and meta for a couple seconds, and then go back in. Definently a big change from the fade of 1.04 who was a tank. (no good on small marine starts like core, but great on kestral)
iun Clanplay or a good skulk in pub play can get Fades around the 3:5 minute mark!
With that the marines have 1/1 at most wich is NOT: Heavies, lvl3 Shotties or many shotties, heavy weapons!
The Problems are not the late game fades, but the early ones around this mark, marines have already a hard time to fight the carapaced skulks and the 2 fades wch usually get there will cripple their economy if they aren´t killed in a short time (wich wont happen, if they are capable)
gorge + lerk + fade = 3 levels correct? (No upgrades though)
damage 1 + shotgun + (hmg/damage 2)
At that point in time, fades are only marginally better. It's later when they have carapace, celerity, regen, and adrenaline that they are a real problem.
From my experience in games with 20+ players by the time fades appear marines have at least some shotguns (sometimes even HA train). So maybe early fades are a problem in small games but in large games a fade with only a defense upgrade is crippled and doesn't live more than a few minutes. Maybe get some shotguns instead of something else in small games? Fades without focus need some slashes to kill a marine and they can't blink around like in combat because they have to choose between energy problems celerity and slow adrenalin.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It's later when they have carapace, celerity, regen, and adrenaline that they are a real problem.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think fades are the evolution that gets the biggest advantage of all the additional upgrades in combat and this is why they are so strong compared to classic. Because the upgrades are not linked to the number of hives a fade will soon have focus, celerity and adrenalin. In classic this is not possible at all.
Anyway defense upgrades are the worst upgrades for fades. I always take carapace and/or regen around level 10.
gorge + lerk + fade = 3 levels correct? (No upgrades though)
damage 1 + shotgun + (hmg/damage 2)
At that point in time, fades are only marginally better. It's later when they have carapace, celerity, regen, and adrenaline that they are a real problem. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think he's talking about Classic NS, Ahnteis.
I'm not sure the fade itself is overpowered as much as blink is. What about moving blink to hive 2? Bringing Meta down to single hive. I haven't given this a lot of thought, I'm just throwing it out. But it seems a good compromise. Fades would still be effective res-node hunters, and maybe even a little more effective at defending the hive early on. But they wouldn't be the ub3r flying death units 3 minutes into the game.
- Zues
I'm not sure the fade itself is overpowered as much as blink is. What about moving blink to hive 2? Bringing Meta down to single hive. I haven't given this a lot of thought, I'm just throwing it out. But it seems a good compromise. Fades would still be effective res-node hunters, and maybe even a little more effective at defending the hive early on. But they wouldn't be the ub3r flying death units 3 minutes into the game.
- Zues<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Additionally, this would make movement and sensory more viable as the first chamber, as the fade no longer require regeneration to take out electrified RTs. Pretty interesting.
Surely, the task of going focus as a skulk, saving up points for fade, then hitting level 10 ASAP is not difficult at all, and far too easy.
teh curernt health / armor is ok with me imo.
if encountering vanilla rines, teh fade is definietly too strong for them ...but that is when teh marines deserve a defeat.
*we shld worry more on cloaking focus skulks* :X
In classic NS, the fade is pretty balanced - one fade can die to one shotgunner if it engages 1v1. The chances are very low of one shotgun marine killing a fade 1v1 without comm or team-mate support. However, with any amount of team-work the fades can go down or at least be forced to blink away rather quickly. I like them just the way they are - a bit less then tanks, but more stronger than a stock la marine.
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