CplDavisI hunt the arctic SnonosJoin Date: 2003-01-09Member: 12097Members
<!--QuoteBegin-Epidemic+Jun 2 2004, 02:08 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Epidemic @ Jun 2 2004, 02:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-version91x+Jun 2 2004, 06:39 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (version91x @ Jun 2 2004, 06:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> im no detective but
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->megan broke up with me.
that is all.
the end.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
edit: it turns out he wouldn't have killed himself over her, because:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->People sometimes have things they would die for. Those people are stupid.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
also i do agree, this is very sad, about as sad as this one disabled person my mum knows that pays $17 for the bus, works all day and gets $20. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think he said it in spite <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> he also states
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Realize that you make choices; and you live with them. Take solace in the fact that they are your choices and the consequences are yours as well. You own them and nobody can take that away.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that plus #69
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Don't live your life by something you read on the internet.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I feel for him. From the posts of his journal, it sounds like the phase of life I'm going through. You eventually hit a part in your life where you take quite a while to reflect on it and just think. What could I have done, what would have happened if I did that? Did I really do that? How could that have been possible?
The problem is that with clinically depressed people is that some of them do that everyday and when they look back and see that they haven't done what they wanted to do in life, they then start feeling really down and random thoughts start wandering in their heads, including thoughts of suicide. He really needed some help with his life, and he could possibley have been alive today if someone would have noticed what was happening and talked to him about it. He may still be alive today.
As for the zoloft arguer there, all medicenes are the same as that some times they don't work. Sometimes they are no more than a placebo to help you turn your life around, nothing more. It's not the pill that is helping with the problem, it's the person's own brain. They take it, knowing that it will make them better and they psychologically start thinking and feeling better and they keep taking it, thinking it's helping them.
kuper: If you want to be taken seriously, you will have to use proper grammar and punctuation, other wise many people will right you off as a flaming pre-teen that wants nothing more than attention. Also, pain comes in many different forms and people respond to it differently, which makes every human unique. Someone may break down for days over losing a pet, while others will mourn for that day and then go out and get a new one the same day.
Medhead: Suicide is the easiest and last way out of everything, it shouldn't ever be thought of but it often is. Many people have lives that are so horrendous that if they wanted to take their lives, I think it's their right. They should have the right to end a lifetime of suffering that will end with a painful death most likely of a crippling disease not to mention that they will most likely have horrid arthrites that will make it almost impossible to even move, so yes, it could be said some people are defending it.
Bah...I don't entirely agree with you that just because we have the right to kill ourselves, then we should. I might as well defend genocide because I have the right to kill off anyone I want, to end a <i>lifetime of suffering that will end with a painful death most likely of a crippling disease not to mention that they will most likely have horrid arthrites that will make it almost impossible to even move</i>.
Not trying to be ignorant, but that's what it sounds like to me <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Suicide is Incredibly selfish, unless everyone you know is already dead too(which doesn't happen except at the end of the world). Because it will cause them great sadness.
And I figured he might have <i>become</i> clinically depressed from his girlfriend breaking up with him, since the article mentions that can happen... sucks really, but didn't he have any other friends? Or semi-friends, like old classmates.
EDIT: Oh, and I don't see why taking your own life should be more allowed than taking anyone elses.
<!--QuoteBegin-Align+Jun 3 2004, 03:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Align @ Jun 3 2004, 03:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> EDIT: Oh, and I don't see why taking your own life should be more allowed than taking anyone elses. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Because it's your life, not someone else's. It belongs to you and you should be able to destroy it as you see fit. You're not taking something from someone else.
Exactly, and it's selfish that he took control of his own life? Just like it's selfish if I just stop posting/close my account here? Frankly it's none of your buisness.
That's just a 'side effect' of social interaction. When your pets die you feel sad because you were attached to them. In the end it's not your pets fault for you having those feelings, just like it's not his fault for people close to him for being close to him.
I can understand what he feels. Especially the monkeys part, because I am in a similar situation.
I always try to look on the bright side, but whenever I close my eyes, I have the same feeling as Mike did.
Being alone, knowing that no one really needs you. Knowing that you will only grieve a small amount of the human population. This is what he feels.
He thought all his fans would spend 1 day crying over him, and spend the next day enjoying this and that. That, and clinical depression put together, could force a person into suicide.
And unfortunately, version91x is right, humans are a kind of social animal, and as such, you'll grieve over ones death. This is unavoidable. This is the fact about life. We live, we die. They mourn, then they cheer up and continue on with life.
I could choose to kill myself right now, but I didn't because I know it can't get any worse for me. After all, knowing that only about 1/1000000000 of the population cares about a person dead makes it even more depressing.
I offer my condolences to Mike, and I shall respect him for his decision, whichever way he takes it. It is his life, and he has the right to end it on his own, and he did.
GrendelAll that is fear...Join Date: 2002-07-19Member: 970Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, NS2 Playtester
Everyone says "he had everything to live for".
That's pretty presumptious.
His fans might have enjoyed his existence, but it's pretty clear that he did not.
Since no one gets the choice of whether they are born, I think it's only fair they should have the right to opt out, should their life be, on average, more miserable than happy.
I've been fighting depression on a daily basis since the age of 10. I've finally come to the conclusion that it's more psychological than physiological in my case, but regardless of cause, it's up to every individual to pick their own battles.
Would you challenge the right of someone with a painful terminal illness to take their own life?
Given that life is inherently meaningless, unless you happen to be "spiritual", why should someone have to extend a life that has no point purely for the convenience of others?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->so, last year, i opened it up and read the letter. i really let 12 year old me down. of all the dreams he had, i hadn't done any of them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can totally empathise with this. Recently I've been dwelling on the same thing myself and find myself leaning toward his solution. The only thing I've done of any note has got me nowhere in finding a Games related job and got me little but criticism and abuse. I imagine that he probably felt the same way about his comic strip.
The irony that his death has raised his profile sufficiently to get him published does not go unnoticed.
... powerful. I'm not going to say I understand but I can certainly empathise more than I wish I did. Certainly brings back emotions I didn't want flying around at work.
Suicide is simply just saying you don't want to play anymore. Life isn't exactly fair and if you can't cope then why torture yourself. I respect him for making a difficult choice, plenty of people stay alive and miserable just because they don't have enough strength to do anything about it, thats probably why they are miserable in the first place.
It is a shame, but its not something you can judge anyone on, you can't step into anyone's shoes no matter how hard you try.
Kuperaye: You are allowed an opinion but there is no need to be so insensitive. You can say what you wish without upsetting people, in fact you should have started a topic in discussions, it would have been interesting to see everyones opinion on suicide, euthanasia etc.
Secondly, don't start comparing problems as we have no idea what he's been through and you have no idea what has happened to others on these forums. if you want to compete start a seperate thread, I'm sure you'll get plenty of takers (though it may well get locked/deleted. Besides which, everyone reacts differently to things, I know people who have gone through similar things and one has become much stronger and the other just collapsed... in fact last time I heard he had been committed. You seriously cannot comment on another persons life without inviting an attack or two. If you have a negative opinion either keep quiet or find an appropriate way of voicing it.
I can't believe you people actually are defending suicide. That's disgusting.
Good grief, life is not so hard that you have to wimp out and kill yourself. What a childish, immature, weakling way to handle a situation. Stop thinking about "me me me" all the time, grow up, and take a walk outside.
Suicide IS selfish.
"Nobody will miss <b>me</b>." "<b>I'm</b> no longer needed." "I hate <b>myself</b>."
People who commit suicide are so wrapped up in their own misery they forget their problems are not greater than the rest of the worlds - they just can't handle life. Too bad. Learn to deal. Grow up, get out of the ashes of your woe and misery (/sarcasm), and quit whining.
But to think that it's <b>okay</b> to commit suicide... wow. That's wrong.
<!--QuoteBegin-MedHead+Jun 3 2004, 03:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MedHead @ Jun 3 2004, 03:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I can't believe you people actually are defending suicide. That's disgusting.
Good grief, life is not so hard that you have to wimp out and kill yourself. What a childish, immature, weakling way to handle a situation. Stop thinking about "me me me" all the time, grow up, and take a walk outside.
Suicide IS selfish.
"Nobody will miss <b>me</b>." "<b>I'm</b> no longer needed." "I hate <b>myself</b>."
People who commit suicide are so wrapped up in their own misery they forget their problems are not greater than the rest of the worlds - they just can't handle life. Too bad. Learn to deal. Grow up, get out of the ashes of your woe and misery (/sarcasm), and quit whining.
But to think that it's <b>okay</b> to commit suicide... wow. That's wrong. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Heaven forbid <b>HE</b> make a choice about <b>HIS</b> life.
Medhead, I'm glad you can 'handle life' and 'deal with it'. I'm glad its not difficult for you. I know quite a few people who have more difficult problems.
Of course suicide is selfish, that is exactly the point. They are getting themselves out of something they don't want to be in anymore. You seriously think they don't know the effect it may have on other people? And if they don't then that could be one of the reasons <b>why</b> they are so down.
Its not just a case of chin up, stomach in, take it like a man etc. Some people genuinely can't cope. You've never pushed F4? Let them escape if they want to, it doesn't really affect you does it?
<!--QuoteBegin-Seph Kimara+Jun 3 2004, 10:14 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Seph Kimara @ Jun 3 2004, 10:14 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Heaven forbid <b>HE</b> make a choice about <b>HIS</b> life. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> He can style his hair differently. He can buy a new car. But kill himself? That's going too far. Hey, that rhymes.
<!--QuoteBegin--_Phoenix_-+Jun 3 2004, 10:21 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-_Phoenix_- @ Jun 3 2004, 10:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Unless you've got dependents i.e. children, I don't see suicide as selfish. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> How exactly is it selfless then?
<!--QuoteBegin-MedHead+Jun 3 2004, 03:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MedHead @ Jun 3 2004, 03:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Seph Kimara+Jun 3 2004, 10:14 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Seph Kimara @ Jun 3 2004, 10:14 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Heaven forbid <b>HE</b> make a choice about <b>HIS</b> life. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> He can style his hair differently. He can buy a new car. But kill himself? That's going too far. Hey, that rhymes.
I don't consider suicide as an option. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> His life. Not yours. Not his friend's. Not Mrs. Johansen's from down the street. <b>HIS</b>. If he wished to share it with other peope, fine, that's all well and good. Conversely, if he no longer wishes to share it because he is entirely disenchanted with it, once again, it's his choice.
Wow... that's mind boggling to me. I'll never understand the mentality that killing oneself to get out of a situation is not only acceptable, but understood by others. That's crazy.
<!--QuoteBegin-MedHead+Jun 3 2004, 10:22 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MedHead @ Jun 3 2004, 10:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--_Phoenix_-+Jun 3 2004, 10:21 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-_Phoenix_- @ Jun 3 2004, 10:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Unless you've got dependents i.e. children, I don't see suicide as selfish. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> How exactly is it selfless then?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Doesn't have to be about other people... it's not selfish because it's his life, as Seph described. You don't owe your life to everyone else. And I don't think anyone is saying it's selfless, it's just that it doesn't have to do with other people. His suicide could simply be about his own life.
Of course, if you believe that GOD created you, then I guess in some ways you owe your life to GOD, so that could make suicide appear selfish to some people <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Edit: Hmm, maybe I'm biased by the fact that I don't think it's selfish to put yourself first. I would define selfishness as some sort of fuzzy boundary past which you hurt other people too much in the process of putting yourself first... "too much" is of course left undefined. Like Phoenix said, if children were a factor, then I may consider it selfish.
For those that are hurting, they probably don't care if its physical or mental pain.
Have you ever just had to get out of a situation? Just walk out of an argument? Isn't there anything you have ever wanted to escape from?
Again, I'm glad your life is good, mines pretty good at the moment too, what happens if it goes bad and theres nothing you can do? There is only one exit in that situation.
Yeah yeah, I know there is normally something you can do and there are plenty of people that are going through worse, doesn't feel like it when you are there though.
And changing your hair or car is superficial, people have full responsibility and control for their own lives. If they don't want them its up to them, it may be a bit drastic a change for you but you think visiting a barbershop is going to solve their problems?
<!--QuoteBegin-CMEast+Jun 3 2004, 10:52 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CMEast @ Jun 3 2004, 10:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Do you believe in euthanasia? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> We're talking about a man who had problems with depression. He can get healthy. People with physical problems of which there is no cure are of a different matter entirely.
However, to answer your question, no, I don't really like euthenasia.
OK, so its not a perfect analogy <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> (are they ever?)
I believe you can do whatever you like as long as it doesn't harm others (which is vague I know but if you want me to be specific it will take an essay).
Which means if you've got an in-growing toenail you are perfectly within your rights to chop your leg off. It may not be how you would solve it but for those who can't see any way out and don't want another way out... let them be. No need to insult them.
I don't get how suicide is selfish. Were you born into slavery and have to live your life for the sake of other people? If a person has loving parents and siblings that have done everything they could do to help the victim, then yes, it would be selfish. If the person has NOT been shown enough concern by the people he or she is closest to, then it's not selfish. Even when it IS selfish, it's still a right, as a last resort.
Of course I wish he didn't do it, and of course I wouldn't blame his family for not loving him enough... however, it looks like there were warning signs, and somebody should have helped the guy out... <!--QuoteBegin-http://www.healthyplace.com/communities/depression/related/suicide_8.asp+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (http://www.healthyplace.com/communities/depression/related/suicide_8.asp)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There are an estimated 8-25 attempted suicides to one completion; the ratio is higher in women and youth and lower in men and the elderly <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Most of the time, suicide attempts are cries for help... and it kills 50% more people than murder, but in our society, people are still like 10 times more scared of getting mugged than concerned about their relatives' mental health...
Michal was one of the unlucky ones...
call me jaded, but what I learn from his story is how much it must suck to have dreams. If I had aspirations when I was twelve, I can guarantee none of them would be true today. I just live my life one day at a time and hope it leads me somewhere good... the idea of suicide is actually comforting though... if times ever get so bad that it's unbearable, it's nice to know it could all be over in one brief moment...
<!--QuoteBegin-MedHead+Jun 3 2004, 04:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MedHead @ Jun 3 2004, 04:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> "Nobody will miss <b>me</b>." "<b>I'm</b> no longer needed." "I hate <b>myself</b>." <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Ofcourse it is. Why continue to be social towards other if Nobody will miss you. What's the point in that. That's what makes you depressed.
It's ok in my opinion to be selfish in these situations. It's your live, your freedom.
<!--QuoteBegin-MedHead+Jun 3 2004, 10:11 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MedHead @ Jun 3 2004, 10:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I can't believe you people actually are defending suicide. That's disgusting.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But to think that it's <b>okay</b> to commit suicide... wow. That's wrong.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Wow... that's mind boggling to me. I'll never understand the mentality that killing oneself to get out of a situation is not only acceptable, but understood by others. That's crazy.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Always remember that morals are subjective, MedHead. Just because you might think that something is wrong doesn't mean that <i>everyone</i> will think that it's wrong. It seems that you have a <b><i>huge</i></b> problem remembering that, because it seems like you're trying to force your views on everyone else.
Comments
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->megan broke up with me.
that is all.
the end.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
edit: it turns out he wouldn't have killed himself over her, because:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->People sometimes have things they would die for. Those people are stupid.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
also i do agree, this is very sad, about as sad as this one disabled person my mum knows that pays $17 for the bus, works all day and gets $20. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think he said it in spite <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
he also states
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Realize that you make choices; and you live with them. Take solace in the fact that they are your choices and the consequences are yours as well. You own them and nobody can take that away.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that plus
#69
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Don't live your life by something you read on the internet.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The problem is that with clinically depressed people is that some of them do that everyday and when they look back and see that they haven't done what they wanted to do in life, they then start feeling really down and random thoughts start wandering in their heads, including thoughts of suicide. He really needed some help with his life, and he could possibley have been alive today if someone would have noticed what was happening and talked to him about it. He may still be alive today.
As for the zoloft arguer there, all medicenes are the same as that some times they don't work. Sometimes they are no more than a placebo to help you turn your life around, nothing more. It's not the pill that is helping with the problem, it's the person's own brain. They take it, knowing that it will make them better and they psychologically start thinking and feeling better and they keep taking it, thinking it's helping them.
kuper: If you want to be taken seriously, you will have to use proper grammar and punctuation, other wise many people will right you off as a flaming pre-teen that wants nothing more than attention. Also, pain comes in many different forms and people respond to it differently, which makes every human unique. Someone may break down for days over losing a pet, while others will mourn for that day and then go out and get a new one the same day.
Medhead: Suicide is the easiest and last way out of everything, it shouldn't ever be thought of but it often is. Many people have lives that are so horrendous that if they wanted to take their lives, I think it's their right. They should have the right to end a lifetime of suffering that will end with a painful death most likely of a crippling disease not to mention that they will most likely have horrid arthrites that will make it almost impossible to even move, so yes, it could be said some people are defending it.
Not trying to be ignorant, but that's what it sounds like to me <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo-->
but i guess that sucks
Because it will cause them great sadness.
And I figured he might have <i>become</i> clinically depressed from his girlfriend breaking up with him, since the article mentions that can happen... sucks really, but didn't he have any other friends? Or semi-friends, like old classmates.
EDIT: Oh, and I don't see why taking your own life should be more allowed than taking anyone elses.
Because it's your life, not someone else's. It belongs to you and you should be able to destroy it as you see fit. You're not taking something from someone else.
People don't come with guarantees.
I always try to look on the bright side, but whenever I close my eyes, I have the same feeling as Mike did.
Being alone, knowing that no one really needs you. Knowing that you will only grieve a small amount of the human population. This is what he feels.
He thought all his fans would spend 1 day crying over him, and spend the next day enjoying this and that. That, and clinical depression put together, could force a person into suicide.
And unfortunately, version91x is right, humans are a kind of social animal, and as such, you'll grieve over ones death. This is unavoidable. This is the fact about life. We live, we die. They mourn, then they cheer up and continue on with life.
I could choose to kill myself right now, but I didn't because I know it can't get any worse for me. After all, knowing that only about 1/1000000000 of the population cares about a person dead makes it even more depressing.
I offer my condolences to Mike, and I shall respect him for his decision, whichever way he takes it. It is his life, and he has the right to end it on his own, and he did.
Rest in peace, Micheal Buonauro.
That's pretty presumptious.
His fans might have enjoyed his existence, but it's pretty clear that he did not.
Since no one gets the choice of whether they are born, I think it's only fair they should have the right to opt out, should their life be, on average, more miserable than happy.
I've been fighting depression on a daily basis since the age of 10. I've finally come to the conclusion that it's more psychological than physiological in my case, but regardless of cause, it's up to every individual to pick their own battles.
Would you challenge the right of someone with a painful terminal illness to take their own life?
Given that life is inherently meaningless, unless you happen to be "spiritual", why should someone have to extend a life that has no point purely for the convenience of others?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->so, last year, i opened it up and read the letter. i really let 12 year old me down. of all the dreams he had, i hadn't done any of them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can totally empathise with this. Recently I've been dwelling on the same thing myself and find myself leaning toward his solution. The only thing I've done of any note has got me nowhere in finding a Games related job and got me little but criticism and abuse. I imagine that he probably felt the same way about his comic strip.
The irony that his death has raised his profile sufficiently to get him published does not go unnoticed.
Rest In Peace MB.
I hope you have found what you sought.
Suicide is simply just saying you don't want to play anymore. Life isn't exactly fair and if you can't cope then why torture yourself. I respect him for making a difficult choice, plenty of people stay alive and miserable just because they don't have enough strength to do anything about it, thats probably why they are miserable in the first place.
It is a shame, but its not something you can judge anyone on, you can't step into anyone's shoes no matter how hard you try.
Kuperaye: You are allowed an opinion but there is no need to be so insensitive. You can say what you wish without upsetting people, in fact you should have started a topic in discussions, it would have been interesting to see everyones opinion on suicide, euthanasia etc.
Secondly, don't start comparing problems as we have no idea what he's been through and you have no idea what has happened to others on these forums. if you want to compete start a seperate thread, I'm sure you'll get plenty of takers (though it may well get locked/deleted. Besides which, everyone reacts differently to things, I know people who have gone through similar things and one has become much stronger and the other just collapsed... in fact last time I heard he had been committed. You seriously cannot comment on another persons life without inviting an attack or two.
If you have a negative opinion either keep quiet or find an appropriate way of voicing it.
Good grief, life is not so hard that you have to wimp out and kill yourself. What a childish, immature, weakling way to handle a situation. Stop thinking about "me me me" all the time, grow up, and take a walk outside.
Suicide IS selfish.
"Nobody will miss <b>me</b>."
"<b>I'm</b> no longer needed."
"I hate <b>myself</b>."
People who commit suicide are so wrapped up in their own misery they forget their problems are not greater than the rest of the worlds - they just can't handle life. Too bad. Learn to deal. Grow up, get out of the ashes of your woe and misery (/sarcasm), and quit whining.
But to think that it's <b>okay</b> to commit suicide... wow. That's wrong.
Good grief, life is not so hard that you have to wimp out and kill yourself. What a childish, immature, weakling way to handle a situation. Stop thinking about "me me me" all the time, grow up, and take a walk outside.
Suicide IS selfish.
"Nobody will miss <b>me</b>."
"<b>I'm</b> no longer needed."
"I hate <b>myself</b>."
People who commit suicide are so wrapped up in their own misery they forget their problems are not greater than the rest of the worlds - they just can't handle life. Too bad. Learn to deal. Grow up, get out of the ashes of your woe and misery (/sarcasm), and quit whining.
But to think that it's <b>okay</b> to commit suicide... wow. That's wrong. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Heaven forbid <b>HE</b> make a choice about <b>HIS</b> life.
Of course suicide is selfish, that is exactly the point. They are getting themselves out of something they don't want to be in anymore. You seriously think they don't know the effect it may have on other people? And if they don't then that could be one of the reasons <b>why</b> they are so down.
Its not just a case of chin up, stomach in, take it like a man etc. Some people genuinely can't cope. You've never pushed F4? Let them escape if they want to, it doesn't really affect you does it?
He can style his hair differently. He can buy a new car. But kill himself? That's going too far. Hey, that rhymes.
I don't consider suicide as an option.
How exactly is it selfless then?
He can style his hair differently. He can buy a new car. But kill himself? That's going too far. Hey, that rhymes.
I don't consider suicide as an option. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
His life. Not yours. Not his friend's. Not Mrs. Johansen's from down the street. <b>HIS</b>. If he wished to share it with other peope, fine, that's all well and good. Conversely, if he no longer wishes to share it because he is entirely disenchanted with it, once again, it's his choice.
Selfish? Maybe
Realistic? Yes.
<b>You</b> don't, other people may.
How exactly is it selfless then?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Doesn't have to be about other people... it's not selfish because it's his life, as Seph described. You don't owe your life to everyone else. And I don't think anyone is saying it's selfless, it's just that it doesn't have to do with other people. His suicide could simply be about his own life.
Of course, if you believe that GOD created you, then I guess in some ways you owe your life to GOD, so that could make suicide appear selfish to some people <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Edit: Hmm, maybe I'm biased by the fact that I don't think it's selfish to put yourself first. I would define selfishness as some sort of fuzzy boundary past which you hurt other people too much in the process of putting yourself first... "too much" is of course left undefined. Like Phoenix said, if children were a factor, then I may consider it selfish.
For those that are hurting, they probably don't care if its physical or mental pain.
Have you ever just had to get out of a situation? Just walk out of an argument? Isn't there anything you have ever wanted to escape from?
Again, I'm glad your life is good, mines pretty good at the moment too, what happens if it goes bad and theres nothing you can do? There is only one exit in that situation.
Yeah yeah, I know there is normally something you can do and there are plenty of people that are going through worse, doesn't feel like it when you are there though.
And changing your hair or car is superficial, people have full responsibility and control for their own lives. If they don't want them its up to them, it may be a bit drastic a change for you but you think visiting a barbershop is going to solve their problems?
why endure the pain for a few more hours of more pain?
anyway, it's legal here <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
We're talking about a man who had problems with depression. He can get healthy. People with physical problems of which there is no cure are of a different matter entirely.
However, to answer your question, no, I don't really like euthenasia.
I believe you can do whatever you like as long as it doesn't harm others (which is vague I know but if you want me to be specific it will take an essay).
Which means if you've got an in-growing toenail you are perfectly within your rights to chop your leg off. It may not be how you would solve it but for those who can't see any way out and don't want another way out... let them be. No need to insult them.
every one seems to have a good part of an argument
Of course I wish he didn't do it, and of course I wouldn't blame his family for not loving him enough... however, it looks like there were warning signs, and somebody should have helped the guy out...
<!--QuoteBegin-http://www.healthyplace.com/communities/depression/related/suicide_8.asp+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (http://www.healthyplace.com/communities/depression/related/suicide_8.asp)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There are an estimated 8-25 attempted suicides to one completion; the ratio is higher in women and youth and lower in men and the elderly <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Most of the time, suicide attempts are cries for help... and it kills 50% more people than murder, but in our society, people are still like 10 times more scared of getting mugged than concerned about their relatives' mental health...
Michal was one of the unlucky ones...
call me jaded, but what I learn from his story is how much it must suck to have dreams. If I had aspirations when I was twelve, I can guarantee none of them would be true today. I just live my life one day at a time and hope it leads me somewhere good... the idea of suicide is actually comforting though... if times ever get so bad that it's unbearable, it's nice to know it could all be over in one brief moment...
"<b>I'm</b> no longer needed."
"I hate <b>myself</b>." <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ofcourse it is. Why continue to be social towards other if Nobody will miss you. What's the point in that. That's what makes you depressed.
It's ok in my opinion to be selfish in these situations. It's your live, your freedom.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But to think that it's <b>okay</b> to commit suicide... wow. That's wrong.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Wow... that's mind boggling to me. I'll never understand the mentality that killing oneself to get out of a situation is not only acceptable, but understood by others. That's crazy.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Always remember that morals are subjective, MedHead. Just because you might think that something is wrong doesn't mean that <i>everyone</i> will think that it's wrong. It seems that you have a <b><i>huge</i></b> problem remembering that, because it seems like you're trying to force your views on everyone else.