Tragedy

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Comments

  • MedHeadMedHead Join Date: 2002-12-19 Member: 11115Members, Constellation
    Wow, lots of replies!

    <!--QuoteBegin-Fr05t+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fr05t)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->When you tell them to get help and get over it, how does one do that? Where do you go exactly for such treatment and remedies to mental (and at times emotional) problems?//snipped for length<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    That's easy. Turn to God.

    <!--QuoteBegin-version91x+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (version91x)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Medhead the pro suicide side of the discussion has presented its points and questions, all you have said is its wrong, he's burning in hell. If anyone here is closed minded it's you.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Nothing more is needed to be said. And I see you're of the type that considers a person with convictions as closed minded. Doesn't matter what you think of my mind, really.

    <!--QuoteBegin-SoulSkorpion+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SoulSkorpion)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Oh, for [random natural force]'s sake, people. Stop sticking your fingers in your ears, saying "lalalala, I can't hear you" and then utter some non-sequiter to back up your argument. Go back and read each other's posts. Medhead, I'm talking to you.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    It really gets to you that I need nothing other than "it's wrong" to back my argument, doesn't it?

    <!--QuoteBegin-Soylent green+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Soylent green)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why? You can't accept anyone elses convictions/opinions "without hesitation, or rebuttal", you are IMO the most closed minded person in this thread by far(not that you have claimed to be open minded, but I assume you want to think of yourself as such).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I can accept other opinions, because they are changing. My opinions change. But we're talking about convictions - they are (or should be) grounded on something that doesn't change. Mine are. My <b>conviction</b> is that suicide is morally wrong. That's not an opinion. It doesn't change.

    And once again, call me closed minded, it doesn't matter. That normally gets people angry. Go ahead and call me closed minded, if it makes you happy.

    <!--QuoteBegin-Soylent green+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Soylent green)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I would like to see you be a bit more sensitive than that, there is nothing wrong in having convictions/opinions/beliefs differing from yours.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Haha, what? Suicide is a terrible choice to make. It is wrong.

    I don't think you yet understand what a conviction is. A moral foundation is one that does not change. That's the whole point of it being a foundation. If you're so ready to change your own morals, then what point is there to having them? You can have different opinions, no problem. Without difference of opinion, we are carbon copies of each other. You can have different beliefs, but they won't get you anywhere. But convictions? You'd better have a good foundation to them, or they're nothing more than opinions.

    This is fun seeing so many of you in a tailspin over my convictions and what I believe. Soylent (and the rest of those in agreeance with him/her), if it is acceptable for you to let others have convictions that differ from your own, why are you yet again posting to tell <b>me</b> to change? I thought you said you were "open minded"? Is open mindedness only applicable if I change my conviction to match yours?
  • ShzarShzar Join Date: 2003-09-21 Member: 21098Members, Constellation
    This strikes as something more fit for the discussion forum, so I'm going to open a thread there, and I hope that this thread can be left for those who can express thoughts directly related to Michael's life and untimely passing. So, without further ado, please continue the debate about suicide in the discussion forum.
  • SoulSkorpionSoulSkorpion Join Date: 2002-04-12 Member: 423Members
    edited June 2004
    <!--QuoteBegin-MedHead+Jun 9 2004, 06:18 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MedHead @ Jun 9 2004, 06:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-SoulSkorpion+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SoulSkorpion)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Oh, for [random natural force]'s sake, people. Stop sticking your fingers in your ears, saying "lalalala, I can't hear you" and then utter some non-sequiter to back up your argument. Go back and read each other's posts. Medhead, I'm talking to you.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    It really gets to you that I need nothing other than "it's wrong" to back my argument, doesn't it? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Wow. Where to begin...

    No, you <b>do</b> need more than saying "it's wrong" to back your argument. Why? Because I say you do. And that's not my opinion, that's my <i>conviction</i>. I believe... no, I <i>know</i> I'm right, so I don't need to bother to prove my point or suport it in any way. I bet you want to argue with that, but you <i>can't</i>. Because <i>I need nothing other than "you're wrong" to back my argument</i>.

    Please.

    I don't give a sheep's testicle how much you think you're right. Neither does anyone else. Thinking you're right doesn't make you right. No matter how many times, in how many different phrasings, you utter your disbelief that people can support suicide, it doesn't make you right.

    "If you're open minded, as so many of you claim to be, you will accept my conviction without hesitation, or rebuttal"? Look, if you can't tell what's wrong with that, then you're past help. Wth is wrong with you?

    If you're too arrogant to back your argument and too righteous to see past the fire of your own conviction, then just **** off. You're not worth the effort.
  • panda_de_malheureuxpanda_de_malheureux Join Date: 2003-12-26 Member: 24775Members
    I think I understand now, MedHead is not actually in a debate/discussion with us but actually just saying that he is right because he says he is right. Ok case closed, bye bye.
  • MedHeadMedHead Join Date: 2002-12-19 Member: 11115Members, Constellation
    edited June 2004
    Haha, you guys crack me up. Look, I think that's why the discussion board doesn't have religion vs. science threads - because the two don't mix.
  • dr_ddr_d Join Date: 2003-03-28 Member: 14979Members
    Well since its an argument anyway I find it interesting that you've adressed so many points but overlooked this

    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> if you are truly sorry for an act, even one you are bout to commit, doesn't that mean you have repented it? The only qualificatons to get into heaven if I remember correctly is to be baptized and repent for your sins.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    But I'm sure you have an amazingly correct answer to this one too.
  • MedHeadMedHead Join Date: 2002-12-19 Member: 11115Members, Constellation
    edited June 2004
    Neither of those "requirements" he stated are requirements to get into heaven. Believe on Christ and be saved - that's the one and only requirement. Believe that Jesus Christ died for every sin in the world, and accept the offering of salvation.

    And to repent of something is a little different than how he used the word. To repent (as it is used in the Bible) is to beg for forgiveness, and to ensure that sin will never be committed again. Repenting is a big feat... and if you're repenting for a sin you're about to commit, you can't commit it. You just repented.

    EDIT: Clarified it a bit.
  • dr_ddr_d Join Date: 2003-03-28 Member: 14979Members
    "Lord I beg your forgivness for the act I am about to commit." There you go.

    Or to satisfy semantics.

    /me ingests poision

    "Lord Jesus Christ I beg you to forgive my transgression of eating rat poision, please forgive me, it will never happen again, cause I'll be dead.
  • MedHeadMedHead Join Date: 2002-12-19 Member: 11115Members, Constellation
    You can beg for forgiveness all you want: until you actually accept Christ, you are not going to be heard. Once you accept Christ, the change in your life alters your thought process - suicide is no longer an option.
  • dr_ddr_d Join Date: 2003-03-28 Member: 14979Members
    edited June 2004
    Wait a second so someone who commits suicide is incapable of accepting Jesus Christ as thier savior? I fail to see the logic, or recall where that is written in the good book.

    God forgives all who repent and accept Jesus as thier savior, regardless if they are rapists, murderers, blasphemers, etc. no one is turned away from Gods grace if they accept Jesus, by your own definitions someone can accept Jesus in the last moments of thier lives, ala after a self induced gun shot.


    Jesus was a Martyr, he willingly gave his life up to free us of Sin, the greatest act in Christian history was the suicide of God's one and only son, why you would deny us mortals a chance to grace ourselves with a path Jesus himself took I don't understand.
  • EEKEEK Join Date: 2004-02-25 Member: 26898Banned
    MedHed, do you write the Chick tracts? While it might not be nice to say, but since it was allowed in the photoshop thread, I'm just gonna put it blunty: You're as **** in the head as he is.
  • MedHeadMedHead Join Date: 2002-12-19 Member: 11115Members, Constellation
    You misinterpreted my post. Once one accepts Christ, he or she no longer considers suicide as an option. Paul said he could very well just kill himself to get into heaven to see Christ - but that's not the point of living in the first place. There's work to be done on Earth; God will determine when He's ready to take the person.

    Yes, of course a person committing suicide could accept Christ as his or her Savior. Jesus' sacrifice doesn't extend only to the "good" people. It extends to everyone. But by doing so, you're basically admitting the person dying is regretting the decision to kill him or herself. Wouldn't that therefore suggest even those committing suicide don't want to do so, and may consider it a wrong choice?
  • MedHeadMedHead Join Date: 2002-12-19 Member: 11115Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-EEK+Jun 8 2004, 11:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (EEK @ Jun 8 2004, 11:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> MedHed, do you write the Chick tracts? While it might not be nice to say, but since it was allowed in the photoshop thread, I'm just gonna put it blunty: You're as **** in the head as he is. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I see. Taking a moral stand on something as serious as suicide is equivalent to what you consider a raving lunatic (I'm keeping my opinion of the Chick Track artist to myself).
  • dr_ddr_d Join Date: 2003-03-28 Member: 14979Members
    edited June 2004
    <!--QuoteBegin-MedHead+Jun 8 2004, 11:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MedHead @ Jun 8 2004, 11:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You misinterpreted my post. Once one accepts Christ, he or she no longer considers suicide as an option. Paul said he could very well just kill himself to get into heaven to see Christ - but that's not the point of living in the first place. There's work to be done on Earth; God will determine when He's ready to take the person.

    Yes, of course a person committing suicide could accept Christ as his or her Savior. Jesus' sacrifice doesn't extend only to the "good" people. It extends to everyone. But by doing so, you're basically admitting the person dying is regretting the decision to kill him or herself. Wouldn't that therefore suggest even those committing suicide don't want to do so, and may consider it a wrong choice? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Of course, none of us here ever said people commit suicide with malice glee and are in bliss while they commit it. The whole point of suicide is that it is a depserate act, one you feel you have NO choice in.

    Suicide is a grey area in the New Testement if you ask me, the only thing that really ties it into a mortal sin is "thou shalt not kill". Martyrism was a running theme throughout the New Testement and the ultimate word of God is that all acts on earth are forgivable, I don't see why you'd see suicide as the only exception.
  • MedHeadMedHead Join Date: 2002-12-19 Member: 11115Members, Constellation
    Once again, where in the wide world of this topic did I ever say suicide is unforgivable?
  • dr_ddr_d Join Date: 2003-03-28 Member: 14979Members
    I think that part was inferred with your utter disgust of people's opinion on the subject. Knowing where you are comming from I just wanted to shed a little light on it so people don't think you are so much of a Nazi. : )
  • MedHeadMedHead Join Date: 2002-12-19 Member: 11115Members, Constellation
    Ah, I see. No, even the most despicable, utterly terrible sin can be forgiven by Christ. That's the whole reason for His sacrifice. But it doesn't make the sin right, hehe. As Paul said, (Romans 6:1-2) What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
  • SoulSkorpionSoulSkorpion Join Date: 2002-04-12 Member: 423Members
    The fact is, the reasons <i>why</i> suicide is bad are largely irrelevant. I don't think anyone rational honestly believes that someone taking their own life is, in itself, a good thing.

    However, nobody does anything without a reason, and "good" and "bad" are only among factors in the decision making process. One can understand the reasons for people committing suicide, even understand why suicide can look like the preferred option, without believing that suicide is the only solution, or that it is a good and wise thing to do.

    My point is that when people are considering committing suicide, they don't think "oh, wait, suicide is Wrong and Bad, therefore I mustn't do it", or "Suicide is Good and The Right Thing, therefore it's ok for me to do it". They kill themselves for all sorts of complex and convuluted reasons, as I've already discussed.

    What I mean is that for any practical discussion of suicide, you need to understand the reasons people have for killing themselves, understand why these reasons are flawed, and how to untangle these reasons. Arguing whether or not suicide is right or wrong, and why it's right or wrong, serves no useful purpose.
  • panda_de_malheureuxpanda_de_malheureux Join Date: 2003-12-26 Member: 24775Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Haha, you guys crack me up. Look, I think that's why the discussion board doesn't have religion vs. science threads - because the two don't mix.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This discussion was as a scientific disucussion until you threadjacked it and made it 'im right because i'm religious.' You have no place in this duscussion because you have no opinions, for the love of god let this die now.
  • DOOManiacDOOManiac Worst. Critic. Ever. Join Date: 2002-04-17 Member: 462Members, NS1 Playtester
    I think everybody who has posted in here for the last 2 pages should take a nice look at <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=72786' target='_blank'>this</a>.
  • MedHeadMedHead Join Date: 2002-12-19 Member: 11115Members, Constellation
    edited June 2004
    <!--QuoteBegin-version91x+Jun 9 2004, 12:54 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (version91x @ Jun 9 2004, 12:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Haha, you guys crack me up. Look, I think that's why the discussion board doesn't have religion vs. science threads - because the two don't mix.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This discussion was as a scientific disucussion until you threadjacked it and made it 'im right because i'm religious.' You have no place in this duscussion because you have no opinions, for the love of god let this die now. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    You're right, I wasn't voicing opinions - I was voicing convictions. You don't like them. That's fine. But hey, it's a public forum. I have just as much place in this thread as you do.

    I'm all for ending this discussion, but people keep responding to it.
  • WitherWither A Bugged Life Join Date: 2002-12-24 Member: 11513Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-MedHead+Jun 9 2004, 08:23 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MedHead @ Jun 9 2004, 08:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-version91x+Jun 9 2004, 12:54 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (version91x @ Jun 9 2004, 12:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Haha, you guys crack me up. Look, I think that's why the discussion board doesn't have religion vs. science threads - because the two don't mix.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This discussion was as a scientific disucussion until you threadjacked it and made it 'im right because i'm religious.' You have no place in this duscussion because you have no opinions, for the love of god let this die now. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    You're right, I wasn't voicing opinions - I was voicing convictions. You don't like them. That's fine. But hey, it's a public forum. I have just as much place in this thread as you do.

    I'm all for ending this discussion, but people keep responding to it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    And you just *have* to have the final word eh? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    It's a tragedy what happened to this guy. Lets not drag this thread around any more and let it rest in peace.
  • Nemesis_ZeroNemesis_Zero Old European Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 75Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    <span style='color:red'>***Locked.***</span> For further discussions on the subject, refer to <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=72772' target='_blank'>the Disc. thread</a>. And by god, will I have an eye on <i>that</i>.
This discussion has been closed.