It's a given fact that Lucas has an extremely terrible time giving advice to actors. If you've heard Carrie Fisher talk about the style in which he directs, it's rather, "ok...more...less...good...bad...is the camera rolling?!"
I don't necessarily blame the people portraying the characters, because it is mostly Lucas' inability to understand the vigors that directing requires. Plus, all the green mats make it even more impecable to act, and therefore all the woodiness in the shatty acting.
Seriously, give the mantle to Steven, and watch a master at work.
No really, does anyone think that the reason why Star Wars did so good was because of the strenious amount of time given for deadlines and that technology had to be ingeniously created on the spot?
Right now it's really Lucas freestyle rapping with megapixel cameras. The puppets looked more realistic sheesh. Let the guy rot in his ranch.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> you to make posts moaning about how George Lucas is ruining the movies, and then when challenged respond with "oh, I wasn't serious!" You've written multiple posts here ranting - yes, ranting about how the movies shouldn't be changed, and that the changes are horrible, on and on and on. But you're just fooling about all that, right? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What are you on that makes you post in threads you care nothing about? When did I say I was joking? I've not ranted, I've expressed a rather calm opinion about the silly stuff in Star Wars, yet you tout it as if everyone who loves the original trilogy is, in fact, a demented frothing fanboy who should be typing in caps and joining his words together because he's so angry.
You may not have noticed, but my posts are calm, and fuelled by cups of relaxing tea. You shouldn't pidgeonhole people, you'll miss out on life.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm thinking Tycho was right - those English courses taught you nothing, because you can't convey your true emotion in your posts. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm thinking I don't care, I'm used to people who have difficulties reading emotion expressed in a textual format, but thats because I went to English class and saw the poorer students scratching their heads in bafflement at certain scenes in novels.
Coil perfectly covers excellent examples of CGI failings. JP was impressive for me on first viewing, but a second viewing revealed the glaring lighting errors, most noticeable at the climactic scene in the hall at the end of the film. The best bits of the film involved good old fashioned puppetry. They didn't tapdance, sing, smile, burp, catch food with their tongue, none of that.. but they were satisfyingly convincing because poor shading throws off suspension of disbelief.
Its unfortunate that the Star Wars films now throw CGI at you nonstop, to the extent now where it seems the REAL actors are the minority.
Spiderman 2 has some excellent CGI but there are still tons of places where you can point out and say "bad cgi". And lets not even get started on the Scorpion King from The Mummy Returns..
<b> What are you on that makes you post in threads you care nothing about?</b>
Because I feel like it? Where did I say I "cared nothing about" it?
<b>When did I say I was joking?</b>
You told me I was taking things too seriously, when you (regardless of you thinking you were or not) were ranting quite vehemently about the things you don't like about Star Wars. Like I said before, you need to work on your writing skills.
<b>I've not ranted, I've expressed a rather calm opinion about the silly stuff in Star Wars, yet you tout it as if everyone who loves the original trilogy is, in fact, a demented frothing fanboy who should be typing in caps and joining his words together because he's so angry.</b>
Thank you for providing the source that proves that I feel that way. Let me help you out here - it doesn't exist. I never said that. I did say <b>you</b> were going overboard.
<b>You may not have noticed, but my posts are calm, and fuelled by cups of relaxing tea. You shouldn't pidgeonhole people, you'll miss out on life.</b>
Whatever man. I guess you just enjoy not reading my posts. I am writing English, in case you're confused. You weren't being calm, you were being a zealous fan. You were going overboard.
<b>I'm thinking I don't care, I'm used to people who have difficulties reading emotion expressed in a textual format, but thats because I went to English class and saw the poorer students scratching their heads in bafflement at certain scenes in novels.</b>
I'll say it again. You're bad at expressing emotion. That's not my fault.
<b>Coil perfectly covers excellent examples of CGI failings. JP was impressive for me on first viewing, but a second viewing revealed the glaring lighting errors, most noticeable at the climactic scene in the hall at the end of the film. The best bits of the film involved good old fashioned puppetry. They didn't tapdance, sing, smile, burp, catch food with their tongue, none of that.. but they were satisfyingly convincing because poor shading throws off suspension of disbelief.</b>
Yeah, and he did it without sounding like a raving over-zealous fan like you did!
Take this as a lesson learned. When you write a post, stop, take a breath, think about what you wrote, and rewrite it to be less inflammatory. Your posts will be taken more seriously (like coils), rather than being ignored or laughed at for being overzealous.
This is about the funniest thread I've ever seen. George Lucas owns the Star Wars franchaise, he can do whatever he likes with it, and I bet my arse he would laugh his **** off if he saw the reactions of some people in here.
They're films. Not even particularly good films, just entertainment. Now if certain people want to sit in their bedroom and get stressed about Han Solo being shot at by a man in a rubber suit, fine, just don't expect anybody in the big wide world to actually <i>give a ****</i>.
All of you have a right to an opinion, and so does Lucas. He, like 99.9% of the people in the developed world, doesn't really care what die-hard fans think.
There's also the fact that model shots just plain look cool, even when they're obviously models. Just look at "flight" sequences in <i>The Crow</i>, or some of the clunky outdoor sequences in <i>Aliens</i>. They have some kind of indescribable charm, and they're works of pure craftmanship*.
I can handle (and appreciate) computer graphics being used for backgrounds, but not to play important roles. Yet. However, even then I'm reminded of thinking "hey, that's really cool" when they explained how the [Amidala home city]'s waterfalls were done - not CG as such, but pasting on film of pouring salt. It is that level of ingenuity that lifts traditional solutions over CG effects.
CG is only convincing when everything around it is convincing, like in the Pixar movies and their ilk. I can get a dull throbbing in my nether regions watching DVD extras from Pixar movies, but doing the same for the Star Wars movies just makes me want to punch the people who are trying to do away with "real" effects.
It would appear I turned Rant Mode on by accident. Sorry about that. ^^
* and I can appreciate that a lot of work goes into cg stuff - I'm a 3d artist myself - I just think that models work an awful lot better.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Because I feel like it? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lmao, just wasting airspace more like. Second, you say you care nothing for the original trilogy, they're just films to you. Bits of celluloid with holes punched in so it can be fed through a projector. So ifs just a film, why post in a thread about how people's MEMORIES are being poo'd on?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You told me I was taking things too seriously, when you (regardless of you thinking you were or not) were ranting quite vehemently about the things you don't like about Star Wars. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ranting? Where? BTW, small lesson for you, child, its the WRITER who decides if he's ranting, not the reader.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I never said that. I did say you were going overboard. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lol, talk about mutual exclusivity.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You weren't being calm, you were being a zealous fan. You were going overboard. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you're touting me as a zealous fanboy? But you said you weren't? Find a line and stick to it, english teachers mark you down if you change gear for no reason.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Your posts will be taken more seriously (like coils), rather than being ignored or laughed at for being overzealous. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
LMAO, man I've not laughed that hard in days. I'm going to put this thread in my favourites folder.
By the way Medhead, why are you dodging both Coil and I's posts? You'll find dodging the issue won't work in most debates, because people will pin you for an answer.
So c'mon Med, lets hear it. Counter the point, don't dodge the issue. Or if you can't counter, then at least have the good grace to admit your defeat, as opposed to whine at people because you can't retort in any other fashion, lol.
1. If you're so angry about the films being changed, you need to recheck your priorities. Posting in a thread to pass time is not the same as bemoaning lost "memories".
2. Let's say you were rude. If you didn't think that you were rude, does that change what the listener felt? No. Therefore, it is not up to you whether you are ranting or not. You may not have intended for it be so. That's too bad. It was. Let's move on about that.
3. Informing you you're taking things too seriously is not a case of "going overboard".
4. I don't like Star Wars. I never have. I don't see why you keep trying to present me as a "fanboy", when I never stated to be so, nor have I ever been a fan of Star Wars. Drop it, it's not going to work.
5. How exactly am I "dodging" your posts? Because I don't agree with them? It's not going to happen. Here's my counter - I disagree with you. The new effects aren't horrible. If you don't like them, oh well, whoop-tee-doo. That's not something I need to counter, heh.
<!--QuoteBegin-coil+Aug 2 2004, 04:56 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (coil @ Aug 2 2004, 04:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> skyhigh: CG is *not* up to par with practical effects yet (one exception: Gollum, but he's a special case*).
Allow me to draw comparisons for you:
1) Jurassic Park. Spielberg originally wanted to use stop-motion miniatures for the dinosaur effects, but a demonstration of a skeletal flock of gallimimus changed his mind and he agreed to CG. However, there were still practical, full sized, fully articulated puppets for all the "hero" dinosaurs - four raptors, the T-rex, and the Trike (they also made a baby trike that was cut from the film). The T-rex in the rain sequence was terrifying because it was really there.
2) Farscape (Sci-fi original series). TONS of practical effects. Nearly every alien, even some of the extremely non-humanoid ones, was puppetry (guy in a suit, others off-stage, etc). The only CG effects were when they simply couldn't get away with or afford a practical effect instead. Two main characters, Rigel and Pilot, were extremely complex puppets -- Rygel required 2-5 puppeteers, and Pilot as many as seven or more (I couldn't find exact numbers for him).
3) Episodes 1 and 2. Lucas used CG practically everywhere he could. Real characters talking to CG ones; Jar Jar Binks, Yoda, and more. Two points really stick in my mind. The first is Obi Wan and Yoda (and I think Mace Windu) walking along a palisade. Yoda is riding in his little hoverchair in all his CG "splendor"... but the real winner is the background, which is entirely fabricated. And looks it. The second is Senator Palpatine's receiving chamber, which makes several appearances in Episode 2. There is an entire hallway off of the chamber that does not actually exist. Are you telling me Lucas couldn't spend the $$ to finish his sets? It DOESN'T LOOK REAL, and it drags you kicking and screaming from the suspension of disbelief that is necessary for any movie, especially a space opera. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Jurassic Park was the first fricken time they ever did digital characters on that scale. Nowadays a digital character can be rained on and look just as real. Watch Episode 2 and tell me the shots where Jango Fett is digital: it's impossible to tell. Farscape uses practical effects because it's a TV show; their budget is small enough to fit into an alien mask. And really, Episode 1 wasn't exactly "CG everywhere" as you put it. Plenty of people in rubber masks.
And I've got the orignal trilogy on VHS. It's not like George Lucas is going to hire goons to come to my house and steal them. I can watch the original trilogy whenever I want. VHS tapes don't magically go poof; you can always make archival copies if it is really important to you that the Emperor be played by an old woman or that the TIE fighters appear from nowhere in the Battle of Endor.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Posting in a thread to pass time is not the same as bemoaning lost "memories". <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But we're posting in a thread bemoaning lost memories. Cha?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If you didn't think that you were rude, does that change what the listener felt? No. Therefore, it is not up to you whether you are ranting or not. You may not have intended for it be so. That's too bad. It was. Let's move on about that. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Total non sequitur. If I wasn't being rude, it makes the listener an oversensitive idiot. See, now THATS irony.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 3. Informing you you're taking things too seriously is not a case of "going overboard". <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Odd that you've said twice now that I've "gone overboard". Are you up to date with your quotes, or are you confusing yourself with someone else?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 4. I don't like Star Wars. I never have. I don't see why you keep trying to present me as a "fanboy", when I never stated to be so, nor have I ever been a fan of Star Wars. Drop it, it's not going to work. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You HAVE confused yourself with someone else. Noone said you were a fanboy. I suggest you put down the hallucinogenic and step away from the keyboard. Write your name on a bit of paper every 25 minutes, and when its the same name 3 times, assume you're back to reality and then retake your position at the keyboard.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 5. How exactly am I "dodging" your posts? Because I don't agree with them? It's not going to happen. Here's my counter - I disagree with you. The new effects aren't horrible. If you don't like them, oh well, whoop-tee-doo. That's not something I need to counter, heh. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Have you countered the CGI point? No. So now you've totally sidestepped it. Poor, but to be expected. Come back when the 3 names match, kthx.
TychoCelchuuu
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Jurassic Park was the first fricken time they ever did digital characters on that scale. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I may be wrong... but Terminator 2 (and The Abyess) predates JP. Its digital effects were in some respects superior, imho down to the eagle eye of James Cameron who made sure all the lighting matched. Sadly the tiny deck crew of the Titanic were horribly animated, but such is life.
I may not spot EVERY cgi moment of Jango Fett, but I can spot some, and some are enough to destroy suspension of disbelief. Second, iirc the bulk of that scene is live action, with the CGI shots involving rain being wide angle and from a distance - not exactly the most rigorous conditions for cgi perfection.
Its not a budgetary concern - Farscape had to cough up aliens on an episode by episode basis, and as with most handcrafted goods if you messed up the mask you had to go back to the start. This makes it a physically demanding art where imperfection simply can't be allowed. Thus at the end of the day you'll see a better product, with the bonus of not having to worry about multiple light sources and reflections from other surfaces.
Finally, I think everyone has the original trilogy on VHS, but the fact of the matter is that VHS doesn't last forever, and even creating archival copies involves reusing tapes. Storage is problematic, even the best stored tape can suffer from colour bleed or minor damage from temperature change. People just want to have a copy of the original that'll stand the test of time.
Is the Star Wars website in a period of change? There's a couple different designs to it.
You've got the main page: <a href='http://starwars.com/' target='_blank'>http://starwars.com/</a>
and then this page: <a href='http://starwars.com/collecting/news/2004/08/news20040802.html' target='_blank'>http://starwars.com/collecting/news/2004/0...ws20040802.html</a>
coilAmateur pirate. Professional monkey. All pance.Join Date: 2002-04-12Member: 424Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
<!--QuoteBegin-Necrosis+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Necrosis)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Finally, I think everyone has the original trilogy on VHS, but the fact of the matter is that VHS doesn't last forever, and even creating archival copies involves reusing tapes. Storage is problematic, even the best stored tape can suffer from colour bleed or minor damage from temperature change. People just want to have a copy of the original that'll stand the test of time.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> This, honestly, is my single biggest beef. I've given up on Star Wars; I have no interest in Ep3, and I've taken it as assumed that Lucas is going to **** with the original three.
But having those ORIGINAL three on DVD, just to have them, would be kinda nice.
Just do what I do with Star Trek: Enterprise - pretend it doesn't exist. I dislike that show, so I don't watch it. It doesn't affect my enjoyment of the rest of Star Trek.
Yeah Coil, I think people would be happier to ignore anything Lucas does if they could get their hands on the Original Trilogy on DVD. Coming from a retail background, it makes no sense to me, unless he intends to release the Original Trilogy on DVD in a few years time, thus forcing the masses to pay even more into the coffers.
Comments
It's a given fact that Lucas has an extremely terrible time giving advice to actors. If you've heard Carrie Fisher talk about the style in which he directs, it's rather, "ok...more...less...good...bad...is the camera rolling?!"
I don't necessarily blame the people portraying the characters, because it is mostly Lucas' inability to understand the vigors that directing requires. Plus, all the green mats make it even more impecable to act, and therefore all the woodiness in the shatty acting.
Seriously, give the mantle to Steven, and watch a master at work.
No really, does anyone think that the reason why Star Wars did so good was because of the strenious amount of time given for deadlines and that technology had to be ingeniously created on the spot?
Right now it's really Lucas freestyle rapping with megapixel cameras. The puppets looked more realistic sheesh. Let the guy rot in his ranch.
you to make posts moaning about how George Lucas is ruining the movies, and then when challenged respond with "oh, I wasn't serious!" You've written multiple posts here ranting - yes, ranting about how the movies shouldn't be changed, and that the changes are horrible, on and on and on. But you're just fooling about all that, right?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What are you on that makes you post in threads you care nothing about? When did I say I was joking? I've not ranted, I've expressed a rather calm opinion about the silly stuff in Star Wars, yet you tout it as if everyone who loves the original trilogy is, in fact, a demented frothing fanboy who should be typing in caps and joining his words together because he's so angry.
You may not have noticed, but my posts are calm, and fuelled by cups of relaxing tea. You shouldn't pidgeonhole people, you'll miss out on life.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
I'm thinking Tycho was right - those English courses taught you nothing, because you can't convey your true emotion in your posts.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm thinking I don't care, I'm used to people who have difficulties reading emotion expressed in a textual format, but thats because I went to English class and saw the poorer students scratching their heads in bafflement at certain scenes in novels.
Coil perfectly covers excellent examples of CGI failings. JP was impressive for me on first viewing, but a second viewing revealed the glaring lighting errors, most noticeable at the climactic scene in the hall at the end of the film. The best bits of the film involved good old fashioned puppetry. They didn't tapdance, sing, smile, burp, catch food with their tongue, none of that.. but they were satisfyingly convincing because poor shading throws off suspension of disbelief.
Its unfortunate that the Star Wars films now throw CGI at you nonstop, to the extent now where it seems the REAL actors are the minority.
Spiderman 2 has some excellent CGI but there are still tons of places where you can point out and say "bad cgi". And lets not even get started on the Scorpion King from The Mummy Returns..
What are you on that makes you post in threads you care nothing about?</b>
Because I feel like it? Where did I say I "cared nothing about" it?
<b>When did I say I was joking?</b>
You told me I was taking things too seriously, when you (regardless of you thinking you were or not) were ranting quite vehemently about the things you don't like about Star Wars. Like I said before, you need to work on your writing skills.
<b>I've not ranted, I've expressed a rather calm opinion about the silly stuff in Star Wars, yet you tout it as if everyone who loves the original trilogy is, in fact, a demented frothing fanboy who should be typing in caps and joining his words together because he's so angry.</b>
Thank you for providing the source that proves that I feel that way. Let me help you out here - it doesn't exist. I never said that. I did say <b>you</b> were going overboard.
<b>You may not have noticed, but my posts are calm, and fuelled by cups of relaxing tea. You shouldn't pidgeonhole people, you'll miss out on life.</b>
Whatever man. I guess you just enjoy not reading my posts. I am writing English, in case you're confused. You weren't being calm, you were being a zealous fan. You were going overboard.
<b>I'm thinking I don't care, I'm used to people who have difficulties reading emotion expressed in a textual format, but thats because I went to English class and saw the poorer students scratching their heads in bafflement at certain scenes in novels.</b>
I'll say it again. You're bad at expressing emotion. That's not my fault.
<b>Coil perfectly covers excellent examples of CGI failings. JP was impressive for me on first viewing, but a second viewing revealed the glaring lighting errors, most noticeable at the climactic scene in the hall at the end of the film. The best bits of the film involved good old fashioned puppetry. They didn't tapdance, sing, smile, burp, catch food with their tongue, none of that.. but they were satisfyingly convincing because poor shading throws off suspension of disbelief.</b>
Yeah, and he did it without sounding like a raving over-zealous fan like you did!
Take this as a lesson learned. When you write a post, stop, take a breath, think about what you wrote, and rewrite it to be less inflammatory. Your posts will be taken more seriously (like coils), rather than being ignored or laughed at for being overzealous.
They're films. Not even particularly good films, just entertainment. Now if certain people want to sit in their bedroom and get stressed about Han Solo being shot at by a man in a rubber suit, fine, just don't expect anybody in the big wide world to actually <i>give a ****</i>.
All of you have a right to an opinion, and so does Lucas. He, like 99.9% of the people in the developed world, doesn't really care what die-hard fans think.
There's also the fact that model shots just plain look cool, even when they're obviously models. Just look at "flight" sequences in <i>The Crow</i>, or some of the clunky outdoor sequences in <i>Aliens</i>. They have some kind of indescribable charm, and they're works of pure craftmanship*.
I can handle (and appreciate) computer graphics being used for backgrounds, but not to play important roles. Yet. However, even then I'm reminded of thinking "hey, that's really cool" when they explained how the [Amidala home city]'s waterfalls were done - not CG as such, but pasting on film of pouring salt. It is that level of ingenuity that lifts traditional solutions over CG effects.
CG is only convincing when everything around it is convincing, like in the Pixar movies and their ilk. I can get a dull throbbing in my nether regions watching DVD extras from Pixar movies, but doing the same for the Star Wars movies just makes me want to punch the people who are trying to do away with "real" effects.
It would appear I turned Rant Mode on by accident. Sorry about that. ^^
* and I can appreciate that a lot of work goes into cg stuff - I'm a 3d artist myself - I just think that models work an awful lot better.
Because I feel like it?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lmao, just wasting airspace more like. Second, you say you care nothing for the original trilogy, they're just films to you. Bits of celluloid with holes punched in so it can be fed through a projector. So ifs just a film, why post in a thread about how people's MEMORIES are being poo'd on?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
You told me I was taking things too seriously, when you (regardless of you thinking you were or not) were ranting quite vehemently about the things you don't like about Star Wars.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ranting? Where? BTW, small lesson for you, child, its the WRITER who decides if he's ranting, not the reader.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
I never said that. I did say you were going overboard.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lol, talk about mutual exclusivity.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
You weren't being calm, you were being a zealous fan. You were going overboard.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you're touting me as a zealous fanboy? But you said you weren't? Find a line and stick to it, english teachers mark you down if you change gear for no reason.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Your posts will be taken more seriously (like coils), rather than being ignored or laughed at for being overzealous.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
LMAO, man I've not laughed that hard in days. I'm going to put this thread in my favourites folder.
By the way Medhead, why are you dodging both Coil and I's posts? You'll find dodging the issue won't work in most debates, because people will pin you for an answer.
So c'mon Med, lets hear it. Counter the point, don't dodge the issue. Or if you can't counter, then at least have the good grace to admit your defeat, as opposed to whine at people because you can't retort in any other fashion, lol.
2. Let's say you were rude. If you didn't think that you were rude, does that change what the listener felt? No. Therefore, it is not up to you whether you are ranting or not. You may not have intended for it be so. That's too bad. It was. Let's move on about that.
3. Informing you you're taking things too seriously is not a case of "going overboard".
4. I don't like Star Wars. I never have. I don't see why you keep trying to present me as a "fanboy", when I never stated to be so, nor have I ever been a fan of Star Wars. Drop it, it's not going to work.
5. How exactly am I "dodging" your posts? Because I don't agree with them? It's not going to happen. Here's my counter - I disagree with you. The new effects aren't horrible. If you don't like them, oh well, whoop-tee-doo. That's not something I need to counter, heh.
Allow me to draw comparisons for you:
1) Jurassic Park. Spielberg originally wanted to use stop-motion miniatures for the dinosaur effects, but a demonstration of a skeletal flock of gallimimus changed his mind and he agreed to CG. However, there were still practical, full sized, fully articulated puppets for all the "hero" dinosaurs - four raptors, the T-rex, and the Trike (they also made a baby trike that was cut from the film). The T-rex in the rain sequence was terrifying because it was really there.
2) Farscape (Sci-fi original series). TONS of practical effects. Nearly every alien, even some of the extremely non-humanoid ones, was puppetry (guy in a suit, others off-stage, etc). The only CG effects were when they simply couldn't get away with or afford a practical effect instead. Two main characters, Rigel and Pilot, were extremely complex puppets -- Rygel required 2-5 puppeteers, and Pilot as many as seven or more (I couldn't find exact numbers for him).
3) Episodes 1 and 2. Lucas used CG practically everywhere he could. Real characters talking to CG ones; Jar Jar Binks, Yoda, and more. Two points really stick in my mind. The first is Obi Wan and Yoda (and I think Mace Windu) walking along a palisade. Yoda is riding in his little hoverchair in all his CG "splendor"... but the real winner is the background, which is entirely fabricated. And looks it. The second is Senator Palpatine's receiving chamber, which makes several appearances in Episode 2. There is an entire hallway off of the chamber that does not actually exist. Are you telling me Lucas couldn't spend the $$ to finish his sets? It DOESN'T LOOK REAL, and it drags you kicking and screaming from the suspension of disbelief that is necessary for any movie, especially a space opera.
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Jurassic Park was the first fricken time they ever did digital characters on that scale. Nowadays a digital character can be rained on and look just as real. Watch Episode 2 and tell me the shots where Jango Fett is digital: it's impossible to tell. Farscape uses practical effects because it's a TV show; their budget is small enough to fit into an alien mask. And really, Episode 1 wasn't exactly "CG everywhere" as you put it. Plenty of people in rubber masks.
And I've got the orignal trilogy on VHS. It's not like George Lucas is going to hire goons to come to my house and steal them. I can watch the original trilogy whenever I want. VHS tapes don't magically go poof; you can always make archival copies if it is really important to you that the Emperor be played by an old woman or that the TIE fighters appear from nowhere in the Battle of Endor.
Posting in a thread to pass time is not the same as bemoaning lost "memories".
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But we're posting in a thread bemoaning lost memories. Cha?
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If you didn't think that you were rude, does that change what the listener felt? No. Therefore, it is not up to you whether you are ranting or not. You may not have intended for it be so. That's too bad. It was. Let's move on about that.
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Total non sequitur. If I wasn't being rude, it makes the listener an oversensitive idiot. See, now THATS irony.
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3. Informing you you're taking things too seriously is not a case of "going overboard".
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Odd that you've said twice now that I've "gone overboard". Are you up to date with your quotes, or are you confusing yourself with someone else?
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4. I don't like Star Wars. I never have. I don't see why you keep trying to present me as a "fanboy", when I never stated to be so, nor have I ever been a fan of Star Wars. Drop it, it's not going to work.
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You HAVE confused yourself with someone else. Noone said you were a fanboy. I suggest you put down the hallucinogenic and step away from the keyboard. Write your name on a bit of paper every 25 minutes, and when its the same name 3 times, assume you're back to reality and then retake your position at the keyboard.
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5. How exactly am I "dodging" your posts? Because I don't agree with them? It's not going to happen. Here's my counter - I disagree with you. The new effects aren't horrible. If you don't like them, oh well, whoop-tee-doo. That's not something I need to counter, heh.
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Have you countered the CGI point? No. So now you've totally sidestepped it. Poor, but to be expected. Come back when the 3 names match, kthx.
TychoCelchuuu
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Jurassic Park was the first fricken time they ever did digital characters on that scale.
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I may be wrong... but Terminator 2 (and The Abyess) predates JP. Its digital effects were in some respects superior, imho down to the eagle eye of James Cameron who made sure all the lighting matched. Sadly the tiny deck crew of the Titanic were horribly animated, but such is life.
I may not spot EVERY cgi moment of Jango Fett, but I can spot some, and some are enough to destroy suspension of disbelief. Second, iirc the bulk of that scene is live action, with the CGI shots involving rain being wide angle and from a distance - not exactly the most rigorous conditions for cgi perfection.
Its not a budgetary concern - Farscape had to cough up aliens on an episode by episode basis, and as with most handcrafted goods if you messed up the mask you had to go back to the start. This makes it a physically demanding art where imperfection simply can't be allowed. Thus at the end of the day you'll see a better product, with the bonus of not having to worry about multiple light sources and reflections from other surfaces.
Finally, I think everyone has the original trilogy on VHS, but the fact of the matter is that VHS doesn't last forever, and even creating archival copies involves reusing tapes. Storage is problematic, even the best stored tape can suffer from colour bleed or minor damage from temperature change. People just want to have a copy of the original that'll stand the test of time.
You've got the main page:
<a href='http://starwars.com/' target='_blank'>http://starwars.com/</a>
and then this page:
<a href='http://starwars.com/collecting/news/2004/08/news20040802.html' target='_blank'>http://starwars.com/collecting/news/2004/0...ws20040802.html</a>
This, honestly, is my single biggest beef. I've given up on Star Wars; I have no interest in Ep3, and I've taken it as assumed that Lucas is going to **** with the original three.
But having those ORIGINAL three on DVD, just to have them, would be kinda nice.
Ah yes, the legacy of the 00's - the decade where the word "optimising" struck terror into the heart of the world.