tankefuglOne Script To Rule Them All...Trondheim, NorwayJoin Date: 2002-11-14Member: 8641Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited October 2004
You don't have to be twitchy and have great eye-hand-coordination to observe and treat imbalance.
Besides; who on earth said that the PT team does the <b>full</b> balance testing? That's where the open beta comes in, my friend <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The problem then comes down to speculation here. Yes they tell us this... we then have a long thread about the concept and if its good or not, <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>but</span> we haven't played with the change and the addition of all the other changes combined in. So the community decides it's a bad idea, and then its released as a part. There's wining and bitching about it being included, or on the other hand, he community threads agree with the idea, but its not included there is then another thread of bitching. Either way us... the normal players have no clue on how something will affect the game with out playing with it. So there's no point at all in us knowing just to discuss not knowing what its actual effect is. Stop complaining about not knowing any thing… even if you did know something its not like the community has the right to argue about something that they know nothing of. This is all part of a well drawn out process, which has been going on for years. The more that we bother them to try and get us information the less the want to give it to us, and the more time there spanning dealing with us rather than getting work on the game done.
And the comment on the PT's don't know how to play the game I think is an unfair charteristic just to pin on them. They all have to know how to play the game in some way shape or form or they would not be a PT in the first place. Just because they may not be as good as some of us doesn't mean that they don't know how to play the game
This isn't a knock against the PTers, I'm sure their dedication to the game is above and beyond what is called for. But perhaps there needs to be another screening process to see how balanced changes really are. Maybe a few weeks before a release is planned, hold a mini-pug or mini-clan tournament or some sort of organized session where the new changes go through testing. Where the top notch players takes a look at the changes being made and tries to pull the full advantage out of them. Perhaps only then will you see how drastic the changes are, if at all.
I'd have to say that every PT I've played with has been far more skilled at the game than your average pubber (except nem0), and we have our fair share of "omg WTH bs haxor" players.
<!--QuoteBegin--|HN|-_Prodigy_+Oct 19 2004, 05:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-|HN|-_Prodigy_ @ Oct 19 2004, 05:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You can't put extensive testing into balance and whether things will work properly for the game WHEN HALF OF YOUR PT'S ARE NOT GOOD AT THE GAME TBH. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> that was entirely the idea of the PT group - some of the PT's are incredibly skilled players who push the game to it's upmost limits...
where as some of the PT's are playing the game at a lower level, and approach it more like your typical 'pubber' - they play the game for fun and expect each game to be enjoyable.
If the PT team was entirely high skilled clanners, then the game would undoubtedly be very well balanced for 6v6 skilled clan games. But what about all those public servers? All those friendly games? All those beginners?
If the PT team was entirely averagely skilled pubbers, then the game would undoubtedly be very well balanced for 8v8 standard pub games. But what about all those top clan matches? All those competetive 'clashes of the titans'? All those serious gamers?
You can't have a failproof balance testing in a small, private beta(which is why I hope they wouldn't seriously consider making a large patch, especially B6, final based on nothing but closed testing). Some level of stress testing is a must, at least on a constie level.
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
NS 3.0 is in Beta testing. Each beta release has a closed phase of testing, then a public test. You are all currently playtesting 3.0 beta5. There is always feedback from the public phase, and this is considered when planning the changes for the next beta. 3.0 beta has progressed through its releases and the eventual 3.0 final release will be a product of closed pt testing, closed constellation testing and a long period of public testing. Many of the changes in beta5 are rooted in community feedback ( reduced knockback? Gorge armour buff? ).
I can remember when it was decided to move 3.0 beta out of closed constellation testing to the general community. The reasons are obvious, but this is overlooked by those that are under the illusion that all balance testing occurs behind closed doors.
That_Annoying_KidSire of TitlesJoin Date: 2003-03-01Member: 14175Members, Constellation
thank you for clearing out some of the common misconceptions about this puzl, now get back to the bus! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Well, puzl, when it's posted on the front page that the devs are thinking of making Beta 6 the final release if everything goes well, what does that mean? To me that means that if everything works out fine in private testing, it will be publically released as 3.0 Final. Obviously that wouldn't work because it completely bypasses the public testing stage of a major balance patch.
If that isn't what they mean by a final release, then they need to learn a better way to say it because what was said on the front page definitely doesn't inspire confidence.
<!--QuoteBegin-That Annoying Kid+Oct 19 2004, 01:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (That Annoying Kid @ Oct 19 2004, 01:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->thank you for clearing out some of the common misconceptions about this puzl, now get back to the bus! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Forget about the Bus, it's no big deal at all anymore. It's been dead for a while now, and they won't even tell us what they were planning to do.
Scoot, puzl is the guy coding the BUS now that Cagey moved on to EA. BUS is not dead, it only smells funny. Comes with hiring Irish coders.
Zek, I can't remember stating anywhere that we'll move B6 right out of private testing into the hands of the mirrors. Nor can I remember stating that B6 <b>will</b> become 3.0 final. We hope so, yes, but we're not above changing our plans.
<!--QuoteBegin-Front Page+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Front Page)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->After a development meeting that laid out the foundation of what we need to include (bug fixes/balance) and what new elements we feel make sense at this time, we are beginning to feel like there is a possibility that beta 6 will bring us to our objectives and allow us to make beta 6 NS 3.0 final.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The most obvious interpretation of that, IMHO, is that if Beta 6 achieves its objectives, it will be released as 3.0 Final rather than a beta patch. I'm not saying it's a certainty. I'm saying that an immediate release shouldn't even be a consideration when the only testing that's been done on that build was small-scale and private. If you don't want it to be interpreted that way, then you need to clarify.
GrendelAll that is fear...Join Date: 2002-07-19Member: 970Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, NS2 Playtester
<!--QuoteBegin--|HN|-_Prodigy_+Oct 19 2004, 06:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-|HN|-_Prodigy_ @ Oct 19 2004, 06:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You can't put extensive testing into balance and whether things will work properly for the game WHEN HALF OF YOUR PT'S ARE NOT GOOD AT THE GAME TBH. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, having skillful Veterans who had no social or analytical skills didn't work out so great TBH.
TheAdjHe demanded a cool forum title of some type.Join Date: 2004-05-03Member: 28436Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
Because everyone knows opening the vet program so anyone with form-filling skills was an excellent idea, and added skilled, intelligent players to the vet program. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Is this the annual 'Crucify your Developer Day' or something?
Yes, opening the vet program so far was not the best decision, no, it makes little sense to start pointing fingers at any party now that the program is no longer involved in the testing. Feel free to continue jumping up and down on how the PT group should only consist of your token demographic, but try not to jump on the toes of the other demographic's representatives doing the same; we'll continue trying to hear everyone, as difficult (and painful) as that may be.
Zek, the phrase you quote makes no statement at all regarding the testing B6 will go through before being granted official status, or not. If you interpreted such a comment into that statement, I'm sorry, but you can hardly blame us for what we did <i>not</i> write.
<!--QuoteBegin-Nemesis Zero+Oct 19 2004, 06:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Oct 19 2004, 06:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Is this the annual 'Crucify your Developer Day' or something? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I gave myself a headache laughing after reading that commet.
TheAdjHe demanded a cool forum title of some type.Join Date: 2004-05-03Member: 28436Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
Nem0, I wasn't attempting to attack the Devteam at all. I was merely replying to Grendel's ridiculous comment that the Vet group was incapable of handling balance testing, because he was obviously referring to the 2.1 vet group, and not the older group that was hand-picked to be vets.
Well, you'll notice that a good chunk of those vets are back in the ring with the PT status. I'm going to let Grendel speak on his comment (as long as he stays within the forum rules <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->), but I honestly don't think he's talking exclusively about the 2.1 group, especially since he led the 2.0 vet program for some time.
Can I ask why the devs have released the (now official version) open beta when they still hold closed playtests in private for each build?
To me it seems as though this works more like each new beta is like a new official version release, while the PTs are working on the actual beta testing.
It just seems a little strange that the devs have released a half finished game, called it an open beta while a private group continue to work on it. This version seems to be working the same as the 1.1 versions just that the only information the public is released is "Don't worry, we're working on it!" from the PTs. ("Open Beta." Right.)
Don't get me wrong, I much prefer closed betas with hand picked individuals like the 1.1 testing and the PT testing we have now, just that it leaves me wondering why the publicly released versions are actually released at all. I know that I personally would much prefer announcements like the ones we get from Zunni now, with a closed beta discussion forum which can only be viewed by the public and posted in by PTs along with one stable version that is balanced and works fine.
<!--QuoteBegin-moomin.+Oct 19 2004, 07:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moomin. @ Oct 19 2004, 07:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Can I ask why the devs have released the (now official version) open beta when they still hold closed playtests in private for each build? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Oooh that made me remember how fun the constellation playtesting was... It was so awesome, worked good too, it was fun while it lasted.
<!--QuoteBegin-Invader Scoot+Oct 19 2004, 07:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Invader Scoot @ Oct 19 2004, 07:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-moomin.+Oct 19 2004, 07:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moomin. @ Oct 19 2004, 07:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Can I ask why the devs have released the (now official version) open beta when they still hold closed playtests in private for each build? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oooh that made me remember how fun the constellation playtesting was... It was so awesome, worked good too, it was fun while it lasted. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> To be perfectly honest, giving any group the ability to PT builds simply because they are in that group is a bad idea. I can't think of how to put my words on paper right now, but it is.
<!--QuoteBegin-shanks+Oct 19 2004, 01:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (shanks @ Oct 19 2004, 01:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--|HN|-_Prodigy_+Oct 19 2004, 05:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-|HN|-_Prodigy_ @ Oct 19 2004, 05:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You can't put extensive testing into balance and whether things will work properly for the game WHEN HALF OF YOUR PT'S ARE NOT GOOD AT THE GAME TBH. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> that was entirely the idea of the PT group - some of the PT's are incredibly skilled players who push the game to it's upmost limits...
where as some of the PT's are playing the game at a lower level, and approach it more like your typical 'pubber' - they play the game for fun and expect each game to be enjoyable.
If the PT team was entirely high skilled clanners, then the game would undoubtedly be very well balanced for 6v6 skilled clan games. But what about all those public servers? All those friendly games? All those beginners?
If the PT team was entirely averagely skilled pubbers, then the game would undoubtedly be very well balanced for 8v8 standard pub games. But what about all those top clan matches? All those competetive 'clashes of the titans'? All those serious gamers?
... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Total misconceptions here.
First of all, having PT's to play on a pubber level is about the worst idea I've ever heard. I do believe I would rather support an idea of this <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=83342&view=findpost&p=1288845' target='_blank'>calibur</a> makes more sense than to put in PT's for the sake of "The pubber populace."
One must lose the idea of the existence of a type of player who is known as a "pubber". There is no such thing, because "clanners" are "pubbers" as well.
Therefore by that logic being a "pubber" is a worthless asset, as they have nothing over a "clanner". The difference that people assume between "pubbers" and "clanners" is nothing more than skill. Whereas people find being a "pubber" is having low skill, and being a "clanner" is having high skill.
Which may or may not be true as far as skill goes, but the point is the whole breaking it down between having a "clanner" representation in the PT's and a "pubber" representation is abosoutely stupid on every level.
It makes no sense and the NS community is the <b>ONLY</b> online community to date that follows such backwards, non-rational thinking.
A true capitalistic and smart thinking which goes for the product (not the "niceness" of the process) would only pick PT's on an ability level. Nothing else would matter to those who wish to see NS succeed. Of course, this mentality isn't followed for whatever reason, back from Flayra's original implementation to pick people on both their ability to preform <b>as well as their overall online personality.</b> Do not get me wrong, this isn't stupid, this is smart. It makes sense to pick people to work with that you get along with as well as do a good job.
However, the real problem is that as the NS community has moved from it's initial development which attracted new talent, to more of a finished product that only requires polish.
Nevertheless, the same standards have applied and remained, and what has happened within the community is that the pool of people to draw from has become rather stagnant, (this happens with almost every online game) but instead of simply picking on ability, the original high standards have remained. That being, you need both a nice person with the ability to preform.
However, the ability to preform has evoproated as NS lost it's initial appeal, and instead of drawing on those who know what they are doing the devs seem to be choosing more of path of simply picking those who are nice. The people choosen no longer need to be extraordinary, because that sort of talent cannot be found.
Instead we have people who fit into the "get along with" criteria, except it's more or less just the ability to be "e-cool" and extra sensetive to others around you. Rather than picking those who may fit the job perfectly but not prefer to spend a lot of time conversing or making e-friends.
Proof of this back-pipe thinking can be seen in the whole "Idle mIRC to become PT/dev/anythinginNScommunity". You must be within a social limit rather a performance one. This is extremely contradictory to the most succesful businesses and coopirations I might add.
So in the pattern of the NS team within the past year is to continually accept those who meet the e-status over the e-preformance criterion. The result? Most PT's are among the lower ranking of skill, and the "clanners" who are chosen are NOT among the best competetive players there are, that is for sure. There is exactly one or two PT's I'd consider to be good NSPlayers. If you are questioning how I would rate players, it's somewhere off my small experience of 200+ scrims and 30+ NS matches ranging from the best teams to the worst. If you can do better than that please usurp my conclusions at your will all you like, I would love to hear such an oppinion.
Higher skilled players were noobs once as well. They became a better player however, because they had better understanding of the game, and realize how to best exploit the game as well. It's really not complex to figure out. Taking the best players of <b>any</b> existing game is the best way to balance a game, there is no doubt. Whether this game be baseball, magic the gathering, starcraft, it is always the same, rules are never adjusted off the lower brackets of players.
So the bottom line is that higher skilled people will balance the game for everyone. They are not retarded, and have forgotten what it is like to be a bad player.
Again, this line of rational thought has been discarded, somewhere in the dev process, because again the whole "e-niceness" requirement took ahold over the "e-preformance" one. As a result, the entire process of getting out new builds, of playtesting, I would even venture the entire process of debugging new builds; has been slowed down by the simple refusal of the obvious, and that is to sacrifice the social category over the ability one. No successful buisness, coorpiration, or country, has become successful by placing socialness over ability. Do not get me wrong, being social is still important, but not to the extent the NS community has gone and you cannot also do such a thing around a dwidling pool of talent.
And before some wise*** says "Forlorn is just angry he's not a PT", I would like to point out I'm speaking for a <b>much</b> larger population than myself, after all how else does someone like myself know so much about the process?
It is because there are so many unhappy people within the process who are willing to leak the information to me.
Sorry if I came off as harsh, but I felt someone had to say it.
Granted the naming system may not be right "beta, final, etc", when you are working on a very large program like this you want to have a larger beta testing group and a smaller alpha testing group. Microsoft does this; they have a smaller group of companies that during the beta tests is testing smaller alpha tests.
These groups are not stress testing the application, they're just testing for obvious flaws, they then release to a beta group that will stress test the application and harder, less obvious flaws then show up and are fixed. The NS Dev team is working sort of in the same way. You have a group of PT's that are testing these "alpha" releases and the general community is stress testing the "beta" releases. In programming/app/game development, you want a smaller group finding and testing for big bugs and problems. Then give it to your testers AKA the NS Community to stress test the program. And from what I have seen we have been doing a dam good job of doing it. When the Consines were included there was a greater stress test implemented but not as great as the whole community.
One big additional difference that they are doing that a Microsoft or other company would not do is allow the end users effect what features will be included from release to release. In doing this they are allowing us to see what is going on in the back end. If you were beta testing for some one else they wouldn't tell you jack about what's going on in the back end.
Comments
Besides; who on earth said that the PT team does the <b>full</b> balance testing? That's where the open beta comes in, my friend <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
And the comment on the PT's don't know how to play the game I think is an unfair charteristic just to pin on them. They all have to know how to play the game in some way shape or form or they would not be a PT in the first place. Just because they may not be as good as some of us doesn't mean that they don't know how to play the game
that was entirely the idea of the PT group - some of the PT's are incredibly skilled players who push the game to it's upmost limits...
where as some of the PT's are playing the game at a lower level, and approach it more like your typical 'pubber' - they play the game for fun and expect each game to be enjoyable.
If the PT team was entirely high skilled clanners, then the game would undoubtedly be very well balanced for 6v6 skilled clan games. But what about all those public servers? All those friendly games? All those beginners?
If the PT team was entirely averagely skilled pubbers, then the game would undoubtedly be very well balanced for 8v8 standard pub games. But what about all those top clan matches? All those competetive 'clashes of the titans'? All those serious gamers?
...
I can remember when it was decided to move 3.0 beta out of closed constellation testing to the general community. The reasons are obvious, but this is overlooked by those that are under the illusion that all balance testing occurs behind closed doors.
If that isn't what they mean by a final release, then they need to learn a better way to say it because what was said on the front page definitely doesn't inspire confidence.
Forget about the Bus, it's no big deal at all anymore. It's been dead for a while now, and they won't even tell us what they were planning to do.
Zek, I can't remember stating anywhere that we'll move B6 right out of private testing into the hands of the mirrors. Nor can I remember stating that B6 <b>will</b> become 3.0 final. We hope so, yes, but we're not above changing our plans.
The most obvious interpretation of that, IMHO, is that if Beta 6 achieves its objectives, it will be released as 3.0 Final rather than a beta patch. I'm not saying it's a certainty. I'm saying that an immediate release shouldn't even be a consideration when the only testing that's been done on that build was small-scale and private. If you don't want it to be interpreted that way, then you need to clarify.
Well, having skillful Veterans who had no social or analytical skills didn't work out so great TBH.
Yes, opening the vet program so far was not the best decision, no, it makes little sense to start pointing fingers at any party now that the program is no longer involved in the testing. Feel free to continue jumping up and down on how the PT group should only consist of your token demographic, but try not to jump on the toes of the other demographic's representatives doing the same; we'll continue trying to hear everyone, as difficult (and painful) as that may be.
Zek, the phrase you quote makes no statement at all regarding the testing B6 will go through before being granted official status, or not. If you interpreted such a comment into that statement, I'm sorry, but you can hardly blame us for what we did <i>not</i> write.
I gave myself a headache laughing after reading that commet.
To me it seems as though this works more like each new beta is like a new official version release, while the PTs are working on the actual beta testing.
It just seems a little strange that the devs have released a half finished game, called it an open beta while a private group continue to work on it. This version seems to be working the same as the 1.1 versions just that the only information the public is released is "Don't worry, we're working on it!" from the PTs. ("Open Beta." Right.)
Don't get me wrong, I much prefer closed betas with hand picked individuals like the 1.1 testing and the PT testing we have now, just that it leaves me wondering why the publicly released versions are actually released at all. I know that I personally would much prefer announcements like the ones we get from Zunni now, with a closed beta discussion forum which can only be viewed by the public and posted in by PTs along with one stable version that is balanced and works fine.
Oooh that made me remember how fun the constellation playtesting was... It was so awesome, worked good too, it was fun while it lasted.
Oooh that made me remember how fun the constellation playtesting was... It was so awesome, worked good too, it was fun while it lasted. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
To be perfectly honest, giving any group the ability to PT builds simply because they are in that group is a bad idea. I can't think of how to put my words on paper right now, but it is.
that was entirely the idea of the PT group - some of the PT's are incredibly skilled players who push the game to it's upmost limits...
where as some of the PT's are playing the game at a lower level, and approach it more like your typical 'pubber' - they play the game for fun and expect each game to be enjoyable.
If the PT team was entirely high skilled clanners, then the game would undoubtedly be very well balanced for 6v6 skilled clan games. But what about all those public servers? All those friendly games? All those beginners?
If the PT team was entirely averagely skilled pubbers, then the game would undoubtedly be very well balanced for 8v8 standard pub games. But what about all those top clan matches? All those competetive 'clashes of the titans'? All those serious gamers?
... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Total misconceptions here.
First of all, having PT's to play on a pubber level is about the worst idea I've ever heard. I do believe I would rather support an idea of this <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=83342&view=findpost&p=1288845' target='_blank'>calibur</a> makes more sense than to put in PT's for the sake of "The pubber populace."
One must lose the idea of the existence of a type of player who is known as a "pubber". There is no such thing, because "clanners" are "pubbers" as well.
Therefore by that logic being a "pubber" is a worthless asset, as they have nothing over a "clanner". The difference that people assume between "pubbers" and "clanners" is nothing more than skill. Whereas people find being a "pubber" is having low skill, and being a "clanner" is having high skill.
Which may or may not be true as far as skill goes, but the point is the whole breaking it down between having a "clanner" representation in the PT's and a "pubber" representation is abosoutely stupid on every level.
It makes no sense and the NS community is the <b>ONLY</b> online community to date that follows such backwards, non-rational thinking.
A true capitalistic and smart thinking which goes for the product (not the "niceness" of the process) would only pick PT's on an ability level. Nothing else would matter to those who wish to see NS succeed. Of course, this mentality isn't followed for whatever reason, back from Flayra's original implementation to pick people on both their ability to preform <b>as well as their overall online personality.</b>
Do not get me wrong, this isn't stupid, this is smart. It makes sense to pick people to work with that you get along with as well as do a good job.
However, the real problem is that as the NS community has moved from it's initial development which attracted new talent, to more of a finished product that only requires polish.
Nevertheless, the same standards have applied and remained, and what has happened within the community is that the pool of people to draw from has become rather stagnant, (this happens with almost every online game) but instead of simply picking on ability, the original high standards have remained. That being, you need both a nice person with the ability to preform.
However, the ability to preform has evoproated as NS lost it's initial appeal, and instead of drawing on those who know what they are doing the devs seem to be choosing more of path of simply picking those who are nice. The people choosen no longer need to be extraordinary, because that sort of talent cannot be found.
Instead we have people who fit into the "get along with" criteria, except it's more or less just the ability to be "e-cool" and extra sensetive to others around you. Rather than picking those who may fit the job perfectly but not prefer to spend a lot of time conversing or making e-friends.
Proof of this back-pipe thinking can be seen in the whole "Idle mIRC to become PT/dev/anythinginNScommunity". You must be within a social limit rather a performance one. This is extremely contradictory to the most succesful businesses and coopirations I might add.
So in the pattern of the NS team within the past year is to continually accept those who meet the e-status over the e-preformance criterion. The result? Most PT's are among the lower ranking of skill, and the "clanners" who are chosen are NOT among the best competetive players there are, that is for sure. There is exactly one or two PT's I'd consider to be good NSPlayers.
If you are questioning how I would rate players, it's somewhere off my small experience of 200+ scrims and 30+ NS matches ranging from the best teams to the worst. If you can do better than that please usurp my conclusions at your will all you like, I would love to hear such an oppinion.
Higher skilled players were noobs once as well. They became a better player however, because they had better understanding of the game, and realize how to best exploit the game as well. It's really not complex to figure out. Taking the best players of <b>any</b> existing game is the best way to balance a game, there is no doubt. Whether this game be baseball, magic the gathering, starcraft, it is always the same, rules are never adjusted off the lower brackets of players.
So the bottom line is that higher skilled people will balance the game for everyone. They are not retarded, and have forgotten what it is like to be a bad player.
Again, this line of rational thought has been discarded, somewhere in the dev process, because again the whole "e-niceness" requirement took ahold over the "e-preformance" one. As a result, the entire process of getting out new builds, of playtesting, I would even venture the entire process of debugging new builds; has been slowed down by the simple refusal of the obvious, and that is to sacrifice the social category over the ability one. No successful buisness, coorpiration, or country, has become successful by placing socialness over ability. Do not get me wrong, being social is still important, but not to the extent the NS community has gone and you cannot also do such a thing around a dwidling pool of talent.
And before some wise*** says "Forlorn is just angry he's not a PT", I would like to point out I'm speaking for a <b>much</b> larger population than myself, after all how else does someone like myself know so much about the process?
It is because there are so many unhappy people within the process who are willing to leak the information to me.
Sorry if I came off as harsh, but I felt someone had to say it.
These groups are not stress testing the application, they're just testing for obvious flaws, they then release to a beta group that will stress test the application and harder, less obvious flaws then show up and are fixed. The NS Dev team is working sort of in the same way. You have a group of PT's that are testing these "alpha" releases and the general community is stress testing the "beta" releases. In programming/app/game development, you want a smaller group finding and testing for big bugs and problems. Then give it to your testers AKA the NS Community to stress test the program. And from what I have seen we have been doing a dam good job of doing it. When the Consines were included there was a greater stress test implemented but not as great as the whole community.
One big additional difference that they are doing that a Microsoft or other company would not do is allow the end users effect what features will be included from release to release. In doing this they are allowing us to see what is going on in the back end. If you were beta testing for some one else they wouldn't tell you jack about what's going on in the back end.