It's quite interesting - all this talk of homosexuality and there has been little to no mention of the female aspect of it - I've seen quite a few people mention their disgust/dislike of two men being intimate... but no one objecting to women? Sure, they can't have intercourse, but there's plenty of other things they can do
(disc - if some one has mentioned this and i missed it, apologies.. I've just read all 3 pages but skipped the occassional post that looked like a repeat of one before)
As many others said before, it's a matter of private life and choice. As long as it has no baring on society, I fail to see the justification of prohibition. All counter-arguments are predominantly Faith-oriented. We'll see if we burn when we're dead.
What a lot of people do have a problem with is the title of marriage being given to two of the same sex; claiming it destroys the 'sanctity,' which is carefully preserved by such concepts as divorce and marriage counseling oriented on tolerance rather than solution. However, the actual wording is simply a Christian issue. What homosexuals want are the same legal rights represented by Civil Union. Many, if not most, could care less what it's labled as. God never once proclaimed in the Bible that two of the same sex can't feel and accept compassion for one another. Rather, sex between two of the same is just as 'detestable' as prostitution or even 'wasted seed.' They're all equally frowned upon simply because it counteracts God's plan. It's the modern conservatives who are looking to establish a new chapter of inference. Not God.
<!--QuoteBegin-Flayra+Feb 21 2005, 03:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flayra @ Feb 21 2005, 03:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Perhaps any of those against homosexuality here would start to change their minds if they knew that various members of the NS dev team (past and present) were/are not heterosexual.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I would like to think it would make a difference but I highly doubt it.
You see for them it is simple: God says its a no-no therefore no good can come of it. It doesn't matter what potential good a homosexual contributes to the world because it is a contradiction in terms from Avenger's viewpoint. Good and homosexual are apparently mutually exclusive now also.
Sounds like a healthy Mc-Intolerance burger served at a McChurch near you folks!
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 20 2005, 03:01 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 20 2005, 03:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Caboose+Feb 20 2005, 02:54 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Caboose @ Feb 20 2005, 02:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 20 2005, 01:12 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 20 2005, 01:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Feb 19 2005, 10:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Feb 19 2005, 10:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This thread never even had a shot at producing meaningful discussion. The community is still reeling from the last homosexuality war. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> yeah well ya know... the war between good and evil has raged on for quite a bit <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> So homosexuality is evil now? Murder is evil, things that directly harm others are evil. Two people of the same gender doing the bumb n' grind is not evil, nor is love, be that hetrosexual or homosexual love. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> yeah, its sad to see that people are so disensatized they can't tell good from evil anymore. oh well, theres still people in the world with standerds... just not many that play NS <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, if homosexuality is evil, then apparently many in the ancient greek army were evil, along with many politicans and citizens of the era. We might as well abandon all the knowledge we've based our current understandings on. Pffft, Philosophy, who needs that? Let's blindly obey the Bible/Qur'an/Kaballah/Bhagavad Gita/Devil Worshipping Book Volume 3/etc. Hippocrates and his studies on anatomy and biology? Pffft who needs medical studes, we should all start throwing leeches at eachother and draining our blood. Mathematics? Physics? Anything else?
Just becaue you consider something evil, doesn't mean it is evil. You might think drugs are evil or killing is evil or numerous other things. That doesn't mean they're evil or immoral. Your culture doesn't accept them, so what? Don't be elitist - you're no better than those around you, or those that came before you (even the bible points that out). As annoyed at political correctness I am, I find this situation could easily remedied by saying "I find homosexuality to be immoral and evil." I could think "CHRISTIANS ARE EVIL!", that doesn't make it true (because I think in All-Caps).
Note that I don't condone homosexuality, but I do accept it. Just like I accept drugs and death metal music. I'm not saying everyone needs do 3 pounds of coke a day while listening to Lizard Hell Killers (...bit short on my death metal bands...). Stop pushing your views on other people, or [unnecessary guilt trip] maybe you feel the death of millions of indians was warranted when we came Europeans came to the New World in search of commodities and places to put up missionaries; maybe the inquistion was just God's way of weeding out the heretics (...you know, since humans are infalliable in their interpretations); maybe the crusades were warranted in destroying Constatinople and creating a weak spot for muslim invasion later; maybe...[/unnecessary guilt trip].
<!--QuoteBegin-alteration to a common proverb+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (alteration to a common proverb)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->...believe none of what you read and half of what you see.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The world would be such a better place if people would lay off other people.
On that note:
I find female homosexuality is generally more accepted because men like women and women feel good judging other women. How many times have you heard one of your guy friends say "Yea, Brad Pitt is hot" - if he wasn't ****? I'm sure there's some aspect of "there's no insertion" or something, as well). I'm fairly sure the bible is recommending you condemn both on equal grounds, however <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> .
If you believe in the bible, then you know homosexuality is wrong. But if you don't believe in the bible, then you don't know.
If you believe in evolution (which I don't) then I say... if the point to of being alive is to pass on our genes and procreate and survive as a species.. You guys say "they were born that way let them do what they want" so I figure... by that logic, if a child is born with a birth defect, we would try to cure it.. Because that’s the humane thing to do. So why not cure homosexuality? Its clearly stopping them from passing on their genes and surviving as a species... but you guys say no, so lets just stop treating all ailments that inflect people shall we? Because if they were born that way then that’s the way they should be. That’s the feeling I'm getting from you guys.
And another thing. I'm tired of people accusing me of being a "bigot" and what not. Person. I don't walk around my neighborhood with a baseball bat looking for homosexuals to beat up. I don't do that. I believe all human beings simply from being alive don't deserve that kind of treatment or abuse. But I think homosexuals are suffering from a mental/ physical / social condition. And I just want people to realize that it is a problem that needs to be helped with. And about the Bigot part. A lot of people on these forums have expressed dislike for most if not all organized religions. But do I call you Bigots and what have you? No.
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 22 2005, 12:01 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 22 2005, 12:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> if you believe in the bible, then you know homosexuality is wrong. but if you don't believe in the bible, then you don't know.
if you believe in evulution (which I don't) then I say... if the pointo of being alive is to pass on our genes and procreate and survive as a species.. you guys say "they were born that way let them do what they want" so I figure... by that logic, if a child is born with a birth defect, we would try to cure it.. because thats the humane thing to do. so why not cure homosexuality? its clearly stopping them from passing on their genes and surviving as a species... but you guys say no, so lets just stop treating all allments that inflect people shall we? because if they were born that way then thats the way they should be. thats the feeling I'm getting from you guys.
and another thing. I'm tired of peopel accusing me of being a "bigot" and an in-tororant person. I don't walk around my neighboor hood with a base ball bat looking for homosexuals to beat up. I don't do that. I believe all human beings simply from being alive don't deserve that kind of treatment or abuse. but I think homosexuals are suffering from a mental/phisical/sociol condition. and I just want people to relize that it is a problem that needs to be helped with. and about the Bigot part. a lot of people on theese forums have expressed dislike for most if not all orinized religions. but do I call you Bigots and what have you? no. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, I don't think its so black and white.
The new testament Paul also says that if you shouldn't get married unless you have to(Ephesians), and in the old testament Solomon (the wisest man) had over 700 concubines and 300 wives.
As far as evolution is concerned, sexuality is not hardwired. If attraction were genetic you'd be attracted to the same people your father/mother was etc.
Attraction and sex is largely psychological. Technically, if you wanted to, you could become aroused by a doorknob if you wanted to. So the idea of evolution or genetics factoring in is really a non-factor.
Also, you are aware that a lot of older societies, considered to be very advanced for their time practice homosexuality very regularly.
Alexander the Great, The Greeks and Romans and many other prominent people and cultures regularly encouraged homosexuality.
As far as being a bigot, technically you fit all the traits: <a href='http://www.answers.com/bigot&r=67' target='_blank'>http://www.answers.com/bigot&r=67</a>
the romans allso crucified christ. that was a good idea....... course they crucified 1000's of people to, so I don't know if I want my ideal model for the world to be the romans.
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 22 2005, 12:19 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 22 2005, 12:19 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> the romans allso crucified christ. that was a good idea....... course they crucified 1000's of people to, so I don't know if I want my ideal model for the world to be the romans. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Technically, the Jews were behind the execution of Christ.
For someone who refers to the bible you know very little about the bible.
edit: Also, you DO live in a world influenced by the Romans and the Greeks. You are familiar with Democracy right? or Republic government? Guess who formed those ideas buddy.
Edit: Also, you are aware of how many people we (this country) have killed? Starting from the native Americans, to today, we're no angels.
<!--QuoteBegin-Fat Man Little Coat+Feb 22 2005, 12:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fat Man Little Coat @ Feb 22 2005, 12:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 22 2005, 12:19 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 22 2005, 12:19 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> the romans allso crucified christ. that was a good idea....... course they crucified 1000's of people to, so I don't know if I want my ideal model for the world to be the romans. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Technically, the Jews were behind the execution of Christ.
For someone who refers to the bible you know very little about the bible.
edit: also I don't recommend quibbling about biblical facts with me, my guy best friend has a degree in seminary and bible studies, and my female best friend has a Masters in Missionary/Anthropological studies from Wheaton College (the "harvard" of bible schools"). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I know plenty of the bible thank you very much. I didn't say the jews weren't behind it but the fact is that it was the romans who actually crucified him. along with 1000s of others. thats all I was saying.
being crucified is a horrible horrible way to die. and I don't think its very humane. any person that deserves death should have it brought swiftly upon him (not left on a cross for a couple days till exposer and starvation kills you) if we start by being inhumane about exucutions. then we will become less civil and turn into barbarians.
Perhaps I was harsh on the bible, but I hate people using the bible as the end all of arguments. People overlook some simple facts to make their "righteous" points and it bothers me since it warps something I consider holy into a tool for debate (which I'm guilty of too, I suppose)
As far as Romans doing the killing, wasn't it Pontius who wanted to set Jesus free? He even set him up against a known killer and turned to the people, who (the jews) responded with the overwhelming call to crucify him?
And if you really want to look at the person who helped Jesus get crucified you forgot Judas, his own disciple.
Yet you blame it on the Romans. Your thinking is indeed biased.
edit: As far as inhumane treatement of people, what about the innocents of Abu Gharab? Would you condemn the entire countries' military for that action? Crucifiction is horrible, probably one of the worse ways to die, almost as bad as, oh I don't know, dying from radiation poisoning?
I know what your saying. I'm not excussing the jews either. they are allso very responisble for christs death. but not all the jews for that matter. and not all the romans were bad either. just a few bad apples caused the problems I suppose.
but I don't see the advantagous of homosexuality... what does it add to our lives.. how does it help anyone? all I see is it hurting things
So, AvengerX, let me get this straight... You beleive that all the Bible says is true?
And that anything not condined by this book, that was written by biased human beings, is true? You beleive that people who don't practice every <i>mistranslated</i> word of the bible will burn in Hell?
You don't beleive in evolution because an ancient text designed to explain the world to people who <b>knew</b> it was flat and was the center of the universe? Despite the extremly convincing exidence presented?
You beleive that homosexuality is wrong because you beleive so strongly in a text, that has to be the single biggest cause of bigotry in the history of humanity, says so?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->big·ot (bĭg'ət) - One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
:edit: <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->but I don't see the advantagous of homosexuality... what does it add to our lives.. how does it help anyone? all I see is it hurting things<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There are no advantages really, other than some people feel more comforterable with members of the same sex than the opposite. That people can be psychologically healthier by not having to hide their true feelings.
<!--QuoteBegin-Caboose+Feb 22 2005, 12:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Caboose @ Feb 22 2005, 12:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So, AvengerX, let me get this straight... You beleive that all the Bible says is true?
And that anything not condined by this book, that was written by biased human beings, is true? You beleive that people who don't practice every <i>mistranslated</i> word of the bible will burn in Hell?
You don't beleive in evolution because an ancient text designed to explain the world to people who <b>knew</b> it was flat and was the center of the universe? Despite the extremly convincing exidence presented?
You beleive that homosexuality is wrong because you beleive so strongly in a text, that has to be the single biggest cause of bigotry in the history of humanity, says so?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->big·ot (bĭg'ət) - One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> its true that the bible has lost some of its truth being translated and copied so many times with severaly langauge barriers and what have you in the way.
the bible is not my only base for my beliefs tho. I'm LDS and I listen to the guidence of a phrophet. and I read the book of mormon, and draw from many other resources for my beliefs.
yes I am, and nothing you can say will make me regret being one. and while gentiles like yourself often call us Mormans, the real name of my church is the Church of Jesus Christ and later day saints
<!--QuoteBegin-Fat Man Little Coat+Feb 22 2005, 12:46 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fat Man Little Coat @ Feb 22 2005, 12:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Oh jeez your a Mormon?
You know, Mormons actually at one point believed that when the bible says the angels fell to earth and turned black it meant it literally.
That black people were the decendants of those angels.
I'm not kidding here.
They conviently changed that policy/belief in the 70's (I believe) though. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> uh huh... and where is this proof of yours? you make a bold accuasation there. I'd like to see you back it up with some concrete evidence. since you allways seem to demand it from me
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 22 2005, 12:50 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 22 2005, 12:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Fat Man Little Coat+Feb 22 2005, 12:46 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fat Man Little Coat @ Feb 22 2005, 12:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Oh jeez your a Mormon?
You know, Mormons actually at one point believed that when the bible says the angels fell to earth and turned black it meant it literally.
That black people were the decendants of those angels.
I'm not kidding here.
They conviently changed that policy/belief in the 70's (I believe) though. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> uh huh... and where is this proof of yours? you make a bold accuasation there. I'd like to see you back it up with some concrete evidence. since you allways seem to demand it from me <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <a href='http://www.lds-mormon.com/racism.shtml' target='_blank'>http://www.lds-mormon.com/racism.shtml</a>
I have nothing against Mormanism or Christianity. But guess what: I hav a **** son. And I'm not going to let people like you or your church harm or make him feel guilty for who he is and who he loves.
Jesus, a mormon? That explains alot. Hey, could you tell the other members of your church around the US to LEAVE ME THE HELL ALONE! STOP COMING TO MY HOUSE! I DON'T CARE! JUST GO AWAY YOU ANNOYING SMACKTARDS!
So wait, not only are you bigot, but a member of one of those churches who beleive that it is their responsibility to God to convert the world to beleive exactly as they do? Members of your church patroll the streets irritating everyone who they come into contact with. Mormans and Jehova's Witnesses, yay!
Please, give me some proof, as a "non beleiver" that homosexuality is morally wrong/evil.
You spoke earlier about it causing problems. Would those problems exist if it weren't for bigots like yourself who's goal it is in life is to look down on other cultures/beleif systems?
And people call members of your church Mormans because it's a hell of a lot easer to say than "Member of the Church of Jesus Christ and later day saints".
that little website you showed us was definitly a pro-church site huh. and the people who made it clearly did not have an agenda to take an anti-view point on the church... geeze.
<a href='http://www.lds.org/' target='_blank'>The Official Church web-page</a>
and about your wayword son sir. I'm sorry that he is being confused and is having troubles with his body. but I know for a fact that he was not born to be homosexual.
<!--QuoteBegin-SkulkBait+Feb 22 2005, 12:57 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SkulkBait @ Feb 22 2005, 12:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Jesus, a mormon? That explains alot. Hey, could you tell the other members of your church around the US to LEAVE ME THE HELL ALONE! STOP COMING TO MY HOUSE! I DON'T CARE! JUST GO AWAY YOU ANNOYING SMACKTARDS! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> sure, I'll tell all 11 million of them... anyways
I'm sure they'll leave you alone once the world stops being such a horrible horrible place.
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 22 2005, 12:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 22 2005, 12:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> and about your wayword son sir. I'm sorry that he is being confused and is having troubles with his body. but I know for a fact that he was not born to be homosexual. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> In AvengerX speak, "fact" means "completely foundless fiction"
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> sure, I'll tell all 11 million of them... anyways
I'm sure they'll leave you alone once the world stops being such a horrible horrible place.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Remeber before when you were trying to tell me that I should just leave you and your beliefs alone? THE FLIPPING DOOR SWINGS BOTH WAYS!
I will be more then glad to do research on things I don't know about. but I would allso recomend that you guys do a little research on my beliefs. Right now most everyone here seems to believe that mormons are self-rightous people that think there better then others. and thats not true at all, heck I wouldn't be surprised if you still thought we practiced polygamy and what have you. for reals. I'll do my homework if you also practice what you preach
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 22 2005, 12:04 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 22 2005, 12:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Right now most everyone here seems to believe that mormons are self-rightous people that think there better then others. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You appear to be...
Comments
(disc - if some one has mentioned this and i missed it, apologies.. I've just read all 3 pages but skipped the occassional post that looked like a repeat of one before)
What a lot of people do have a problem with is the title of marriage being given to two of the same sex; claiming it destroys the 'sanctity,' which is carefully preserved by such concepts as divorce and marriage counseling oriented on tolerance rather than solution. However, the actual wording is simply a Christian issue. What homosexuals want are the same legal rights represented by Civil Union. Many, if not most, could care less what it's labled as. God never once proclaimed in the Bible that two of the same sex can't feel and accept compassion for one another. Rather, sex between two of the same is just as 'detestable' as prostitution or even 'wasted seed.' They're all equally frowned upon simply because it counteracts God's plan. It's the modern conservatives who are looking to establish a new chapter of inference. Not God.
Remember:
The First Amendment
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would like to think it would make a difference but I highly doubt it.
You see for them it is simple: God says its a no-no therefore no good can come of it. It doesn't matter what potential good a homosexual contributes to the world because it is a contradiction in terms from Avenger's viewpoint. Good and homosexual are apparently mutually exclusive now also.
Sounds like a healthy Mc-Intolerance burger served at a McChurch near you folks!
yeah well ya know... the war between good and evil has raged on for quite a bit <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So homosexuality is evil now? Murder is evil, things that directly harm others are evil. Two people of the same gender doing the bumb n' grind is not evil, nor is love, be that hetrosexual or homosexual love. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah, its sad to see that people are so disensatized they can't tell good from evil anymore. oh well, theres still people in the world with standerds... just not many that play NS <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, if homosexuality is evil, then apparently many in the ancient greek army were evil, along with many politicans and citizens of the era. We might as well abandon all the knowledge we've based our current understandings on. Pffft, Philosophy, who needs that? Let's blindly obey the Bible/Qur'an/Kaballah/Bhagavad Gita/Devil Worshipping Book Volume 3/etc. Hippocrates and his studies on anatomy and biology? Pffft who needs medical studes, we should all start throwing leeches at eachother and draining our blood. Mathematics? Physics? Anything else?
Just becaue you consider something evil, doesn't mean it is evil. You might think drugs are evil or killing is evil or numerous other things. That doesn't mean they're evil or immoral. Your culture doesn't accept them, so what? Don't be elitist - you're no better than those around you, or those that came before you (even the bible points that out). As annoyed at political correctness I am, I find this situation could easily remedied by saying "I find homosexuality to be immoral and evil." I could think "CHRISTIANS ARE EVIL!", that doesn't make it true (because I think in All-Caps).
Note that I don't condone homosexuality, but I do accept it. Just like I accept drugs and death metal music. I'm not saying everyone needs do 3 pounds of coke a day while listening to Lizard Hell Killers (...bit short on my death metal bands...). Stop pushing your views on other people, or [unnecessary guilt trip] maybe you feel the death of millions of indians was warranted when we came Europeans came to the New World in search of commodities and places to put up missionaries; maybe the inquistion was just God's way of weeding out the heretics (...you know, since humans are infalliable in their interpretations); maybe the crusades were warranted in destroying Constatinople and creating a weak spot for muslim invasion later; maybe...[/unnecessary guilt trip].
<!--QuoteBegin-alteration to a common proverb+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (alteration to a common proverb)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->...believe none of what you read and half of what you see.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The world would be such a better place if people would lay off other people.
On that note:
I find female homosexuality is generally more accepted because men like women and women feel good judging other women. How many times have you heard one of your guy friends say "Yea, Brad Pitt is hot" - if he wasn't ****? I'm sure there's some aspect of "there's no insertion" or something, as well). I'm fairly sure the bible is recommending you condemn both on equal grounds, however <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> .
If you believe in evolution (which I don't) then I say... if the point to of being alive is to pass on our genes and procreate and survive as a species.. You guys say "they were born that way let them do what they want" so I figure... by that logic, if a child is born with a birth defect, we would try to cure it.. Because that’s the humane thing to do. So why not cure homosexuality? Its clearly stopping them from passing on their genes and surviving as a species... but you guys say no, so lets just stop treating all ailments that inflect people shall we? Because if they were born that way then that’s the way they should be. That’s the feeling I'm getting from you guys.
And another thing. I'm tired of people accusing me of being a "bigot" and what not. Person. I don't walk around my neighborhood with a baseball bat looking for homosexuals to beat up. I don't do that. I believe all human beings simply from being alive don't deserve that kind of treatment or abuse. But I think homosexuals are suffering from a mental/ physical / social condition. And I just want people to realize that it is a problem that needs to be helped with. And about the Bigot part. A lot of people on these forums have expressed dislike for most if not all organized religions. But do I call you Bigots and what have you? No.
if you believe in evulution (which I don't) then I say... if the pointo of being alive is to pass on our genes and procreate and survive as a species.. you guys say "they were born that way let them do what they want" so I figure... by that logic, if a child is born with a birth defect, we would try to cure it.. because thats the humane thing to do. so why not cure homosexuality? its clearly stopping them from passing on their genes and surviving as a species... but you guys say no, so lets just stop treating all allments that inflect people shall we? because if they were born that way then thats the way they should be. thats the feeling I'm getting from you guys.
and another thing. I'm tired of peopel accusing me of being a "bigot" and an in-tororant person. I don't walk around my neighboor hood with a base ball bat looking for homosexuals to beat up. I don't do that. I believe all human beings simply from being alive don't deserve that kind of treatment or abuse. but I think homosexuals are suffering from a mental/phisical/sociol condition. and I just want people to relize that it is a problem that needs to be helped with. and about the Bigot part. a lot of people on theese forums have expressed dislike for most if not all orinized religions. but do I call you Bigots and what have you? no. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, I don't think its so black and white.
The new testament Paul also says that if you shouldn't get married unless you have to(Ephesians), and in the old testament Solomon (the wisest man) had over 700 concubines and 300 wives.
As far as evolution is concerned, sexuality is not hardwired. If attraction were genetic you'd be attracted to the same people your father/mother was etc.
Attraction and sex is largely psychological. Technically, if you wanted to, you could become aroused by a doorknob if you wanted to. So the idea of evolution or genetics factoring in is really a non-factor.
Also, you are aware that a lot of older societies, considered to be very advanced for their time practice homosexuality very regularly.
Alexander the Great, The Greeks and Romans and many other prominent people and cultures regularly encouraged homosexuality.
As far as being a bigot, technically you fit all the traits:
<a href='http://www.answers.com/bigot&r=67' target='_blank'>http://www.answers.com/bigot&r=67</a>
Technically, the Jews were behind the execution of Christ.
For someone who refers to the bible you know very little about the bible.
edit: Also, you DO live in a world influenced by the Romans and the Greeks. You are familiar with Democracy right? or Republic government? Guess who formed those ideas buddy.
Edit: Also, you are aware of how many people we (this country) have killed? Starting from the native Americans, to today, we're no angels.
Technically, the Jews were behind the execution of Christ.
For someone who refers to the bible you know very little about the bible.
edit: also I don't recommend quibbling about biblical facts with me, my guy best friend has a degree in seminary and bible studies, and my female best friend has a Masters in Missionary/Anthropological studies from Wheaton College (the "harvard" of bible schools"). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know plenty of the bible thank you very much. I didn't say the jews weren't behind it but the fact is that it was the romans who actually crucified him. along with 1000s of others. thats all I was saying.
being crucified is a horrible horrible way to die. and I don't think its very humane. any person that deserves death should have it brought swiftly upon him (not left on a cross for a couple days till exposer and starvation kills you) if we start by being inhumane about exucutions. then we will become less civil and turn into barbarians.
chalk one up for the good guys!
As far as Romans doing the killing, wasn't it Pontius who wanted to set Jesus free? He even set him up against a known killer and turned to the people, who (the jews) responded with the overwhelming call to crucify him?
And if you really want to look at the person who helped Jesus get crucified you forgot Judas, his own disciple.
Yet you blame it on the Romans. Your thinking is indeed biased.
edit: As far as inhumane treatement of people, what about the innocents of Abu Gharab? Would you condemn the entire countries' military for that action? Crucifiction is horrible, probably one of the worse ways to die, almost as bad as, oh I don't know, dying from radiation poisoning?
<a href='http://pegasus.phys.saga-u.ac.jp/imagesMac-PC/ForPEACE/LastWater.jpg' target='_blank'>http://pegasus.phys.saga-u.ac.jp/imagesMac...E/LastWater.jpg</a>
but I don't see the advantagous of homosexuality... what does it add to our lives.. how does it help anyone? all I see is it hurting things
And that anything not condined by this book, that was written by biased human beings, is true? You beleive that people who don't practice every <i>mistranslated</i> word of the bible will burn in Hell?
You don't beleive in evolution because an ancient text designed to explain the world to people who <b>knew</b> it was flat and was the center of the universe? Despite the extremly convincing exidence presented?
You beleive that homosexuality is wrong because you beleive so strongly in a text, that has to be the single biggest cause of bigotry in the history of humanity, says so?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->big·ot (bĭg'ət) - One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
:edit:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->but I don't see the advantagous of homosexuality... what does it add to our lives.. how does it help anyone? all I see is it hurting things<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There are no advantages really, other than some people feel more comforterable with members of the same sex than the opposite. That people can be psychologically healthier by not having to hide their true feelings.
And that anything not condined by this book, that was written by biased human beings, is true? You beleive that people who don't practice every <i>mistranslated</i> word of the bible will burn in Hell?
You don't beleive in evolution because an ancient text designed to explain the world to people who <b>knew</b> it was flat and was the center of the universe? Despite the extremly convincing exidence presented?
You beleive that homosexuality is wrong because you beleive so strongly in a text, that has to be the single biggest cause of bigotry in the history of humanity, says so?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->big·ot (bĭg'ət) - One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
its true that the bible has lost some of its truth being translated and copied so many times with severaly langauge barriers and what have you in the way.
the bible is not my only base for my beliefs tho. I'm LDS and I listen to the guidence of a phrophet. and I read the book of mormon, and draw from many other resources for my beliefs.
You know, Mormons actually at one point believed that when the bible says the angels fell to earth and turned black it meant it literally.
That black people were the decendants of those angels.
I'm not kidding here.
They conviently changed that policy/belief in the 70's (I believe) though.
You know, Mormons actually at one point believed that when the bible says the angels fell to earth and turned black it meant it literally.
That black people were the decendants of those angels.
I'm not kidding here.
They conviently changed that policy/belief in the 70's (I believe) though. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
uh huh... and where is this proof of yours? you make a bold accuasation there. I'd like to see you back it up with some concrete evidence. since you allways seem to demand it from me
Edit: Happy?
You know, Mormons actually at one point believed that when the bible says the angels fell to earth and turned black it meant it literally.
That black people were the decendants of those angels.
I'm not kidding here.
They conviently changed that policy/belief in the 70's (I believe) though. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
uh huh... and where is this proof of yours? you make a bold accuasation there. I'd like to see you back it up with some concrete evidence. since you allways seem to demand it from me <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href='http://www.lds-mormon.com/racism.shtml' target='_blank'>http://www.lds-mormon.com/racism.shtml</a>
edit: Happy?
edit edit: double posted whoops.
Please, give me some proof, as a "non beleiver" that homosexuality is morally wrong/evil.
You spoke earlier about it causing problems. Would those problems exist if it weren't for bigots like yourself who's goal it is in life is to look down on other cultures/beleif systems?
And people call members of your church Mormans because it's a hell of a lot easer to say than "Member of the Church of Jesus Christ and later day saints".
<a href='http://www.lds.org/' target='_blank'>The Official Church web-page</a>
and about your wayword son sir. I'm sorry that he is being confused and is having troubles with his body. but I know for a fact that he was not born to be homosexual.
sure, I'll tell all 11 million of them... anyways
I'm sure they'll leave you alone once the world stops being such a horrible horrible place.
Because it was from a site belonging to someone who even attended Brigham Young.
Yes, thats right, from one of you guys. Take a closer look next time.
In AvengerX speak, "fact" means "completely foundless fiction"
I'm sure they'll leave you alone once the world stops being such a horrible horrible place.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Remeber before when you were trying to tell me that I should just leave you and your beliefs alone? THE FLIPPING DOOR SWINGS BOTH WAYS!
The fact that you are proud to be a Mormon says that you have the courage to show your faith, which is a good thing.
But blind faith is a dangerous thing. Even Peter doubted and denied Christ 3 times.
Examine what you believe, if its worth believing it's worth examining.
You appear to be...