The WWII draft worked well because the public was very motivated, there weren't many options for most people (college isn't a requirement for anyone who wants to make decent wages, like it is now), and there was still a small amount of draft dodging and resentment.
I don't think we'll be able to find any worthwhile enemies to fight for a long time (I read that we could take the next 5 most powerful militaries in the world, by ourselves, and still win; I don't know if it's true, but the fact that it seems possible will make very few people think that a draft is a necessity; plus, we've got a ton of troops at home, in bases all around the world, especially in western europe and south korea, afghanistan, and iraq, and we still are doing OK; Iraq isn't going that well, but it isn't catastrophic, and we can always pull troops out of south korea and europe with very few problems). No one will seriously challenge our military might, until India or China modernizes, militarizes, and turns hostile.
It's too bad that in both World Wars, governments didn't tell troops what they'd be facing when they got to the front line, and what the average lifespan was less than a day for ground troops in the trenches, and 20 minutes for a new pilot.
<!--QuoteBegin-Spacer+Feb 22 2005, 04:18 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Spacer @ Feb 22 2005, 04:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It's too bad that in both World Wars, governments didn't tell troops what they'd be facing when they got to the front line, and what the average lifespan was less than a day for ground troops in the trenches, and 20 minutes for a new pilot. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Only in WW1. WW2 wasn't that bad, at all.
<!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Feb 22 2005, 04:22 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Feb 22 2005, 04:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Only in WW1. WW2 wasn't that bad, at all. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes it was :|. D-day?
<!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Feb 22 2005, 03:40 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Feb 22 2005, 03:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->People join the military, not because they want to, but because they want to go to college.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I seriously doubt this. Why not go talk to an Army recruiter for the facts?
<!--QuoteBegin-theclam Feb 22 2005+ 04:02 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam Feb 22 2005 @ 04:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Also, if you want to look at Vietnam for an example of how horribly wrong an army can be if it's drafted, then I think you'll be enlightened. We had a considerable advantage over every other military force in the world, just like we do now, but if you look at the military successes (yes, I'm well aware that Vietnam is an incredibly difficult country terrain-wise to invade, especially against a guerilla force that knows the area well) and the way our troops treated the natives and each other, you should see that a draft is a bad idea.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The fact that Viet Nam was fought with a large number of draftees is true. Your assuming the reason America lost that war because of it couldn't be farther from the truth. But if you'd rather debate the Viet Nam war than this topic, feel free to start a seperate thread. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Renegade+Feb 22 2005, 02:50 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Renegade @ Feb 22 2005, 02:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Feb 20 2005, 07:44 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Feb 20 2005, 07:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Having served a 3 year hitch with the U.S. Army following the completion of high school, I was recently forced to reflect on how this affected the rest of my adult life. In doing so I determined it was probably the most influential and character-forming time in my life, short of the fine job my parents did in raising me. It has forced me to wake up when the alarm goes off <i>early</i>, to appreciate a <i>hot</i> home-cooked meal, to be orderly, organised, and disciplined, and to respect authority, just to name a few things. It made a young man out of me.
I contend that it should be mandatory for all graduates of high school (or the equivalent thereof) to do a 2 year hitch in the armed forces of their choice, minimum age 18. That's my oppinion, we welcome yours. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, it's worked for the Swiss. In Switzerland, a 2-year service in the military is mandatory, and assault-grade weapon ownership is compulsory. Of course, the Swiss are true isolationists and only have these laws as a preventative measure in the case that a foreign power invades their soil.
As for me, since I am a current member of Americas armed services I'd say that although a required 2-year tenor in the Armed Services would be ideal. However, I know that certain people aren't fit for military service (physical/mental requirements), and to force them to serve would be unfair them, and potentially dangerous to those around them. So, although it's a good idea, it should really remain just an idea (for now).
**EDIT** Stop derailing the topic, people. You wanna talk about homosexual parents and modern marital values? Go create a thread about and talk there. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Thanks for your post Renegade, and I agree there's a select few here that find it extremely difficult to stay on topic.
It goes without saying my proposal would not suit everyone. I also admit when I created the thread I failed to consider wartime issues as a factor. For the sake of argument (or preventing it) I support this topic in times of peace. I realize this is like changing the rules in the middle of the game, but my intentions were to show that serving in our Armed Forces is a good thing and high school graduates, for the most part, would benefit from it. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Haha, in my country we have "national service" which is a 2.5 year stint in the army around the age 18. Which means most of us know what a 5-piece-rod is before we start university life.
And ATM, girls dont need to serve the 2.5 years. Talk about women's rights!
<!--QuoteBegin-simz+Feb 22 2005, 09:08 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (simz @ Feb 22 2005, 09:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Haha, in my country we have "national service" which is a 2.5 year stint in the army around the age 18. Which means most of us know what a 5-piece-rod is before we start university life.
And ATM, girls dont need to serve the 2.5 years. Talk about women's rights! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Interesting ... what country is this? And do most who have completed it feel they benefited?
<!--QuoteBegin-Spacer+Feb 22 2005, 04:26 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Spacer @ Feb 22 2005, 04:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Feb 22 2005, 04:22 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Feb 22 2005, 04:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Only in WW1. WW2 wasn't that bad, at all. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes it was :|. D-day? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> D-Day sucked, but the average life for someone in the infantry wasn't even near 1 day.
<!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Feb 22 2005, 08:03 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Feb 22 2005, 08:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It goes without saying my proposal would not suit everyone. I also admit when I created the thread I failed to consider wartime issues as a factor. For the sake of argument (or preventing it) I support this topic in times of peace. I realize this is like changing the rules in the middle of the game, but my intentions were to show that serving in our Armed Forces is a good thing and high school graduates, for the most part, would benefit from it. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Sure, some people would benefit from it, but at the same time many won't (or at least won't get as much as you did out of it), and to those people it would be unfair to take away those two years that they would rather spend in college or working. I'm not arguing against 18 year olds having the option of going into the military if they need it or want it, I'm arguing against a blanket "all high school grads go to the army" rule.
<!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Feb 22 2005, 07:49 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Feb 22 2005, 07:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Feb 22 2005, 03:40 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Feb 22 2005, 03:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->People join the military, not because they want to, but because they want to go to college.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I seriously doubt this. Why not go talk to an Army recruiter for the facts? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If you actually read what I said after that, then I said that I had made a flawed example that would prove AvengerX wrong. I certainly don't think that my statement applies to most of the people entering the military.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-theclam Feb 22 2005+ 04:02 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam Feb 22 2005 @ 04:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Also, if you want to look at Vietnam for an example of how horribly wrong an army can be if it's drafted, then I think you'll be enlightened. We had a considerable advantage over every other military force in the world, just like we do now, but if you look at the military successes (yes, I'm well aware that Vietnam is an incredibly difficult country terrain-wise to invade, especially against a guerilla force that knows the area well) and the way our troops treated the natives and each other, you should see that a draft is a bad idea.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The fact that Viet Nam was fought with a large number of draftees is true. Your assuming the reason America lost that war because of it couldn't be farther from the truth. But if you'd rather debate the Viet Nam war than this topic, feel free to start a seperate thread. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you look in my parathensesis, you will see that I said that there were other problems regarding Vietnam. The draft sure didn't help, however.
<!--QuoteBegin-Spacer+Feb 22 2005, 04:26 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Spacer @ Feb 22 2005, 04:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Feb 22 2005, 04:22 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Feb 22 2005, 04:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Only in WW1. WW2 wasn't that bad, at all. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes it was :|. D-day? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> but they were told what they were up agaisnt. they told the men to write home seeing how odds are they'd more then likely be dead after tomorrow. and unlike today back then people seemed to know that sometimes sacrificing yourself for the greater good is worth it, unlike today where its all about individual rights and society is the enemy.
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 23 2005, 12:46 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 23 2005, 12:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Spacer+Feb 22 2005, 04:26 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Spacer @ Feb 22 2005, 04:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Feb 22 2005, 04:22 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Feb 22 2005, 04:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Only in WW1. WW2 wasn't that bad, at all. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes it was :|. D-day? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> but they were told what they were up agaisnt. they told the men to write home seeing how odds are they'd more then likely be dead after tomorrow. and unlike today back then people seemed to know that sometimes sacrificing yourself for the greater good is worth it, unlike today where its all about individual rights and <b>society is the enemy.</b> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> WTH?
Do you think that today's army is worse in terms of duty and sacrifice of individual rights than the army was in the 40s?
We have gotten so much better at psychological warfare towards our own troops, in order to turn them into efficient killing machines. The percentage of men who fired their guns against the enemy in WW2 was about 15-20%. This is because the troops didn't want to kill someone. In Korea, it went up to 50%; Vietnam ~70%; now, it's even higher, because troops are trained to be cogs in a machine, fighting against satanic enemies, for the good of their country.
Individualism is a problem (I don't think it is, but you sure do) in society as a whole, not within the military. There exists a large exception among young officers, but not among enlisted men.
I'm not saying individualism is bad, I'm just saying that now a days people think mostly if not only of themselves... "hmm I spilt this burning hot coffee on myself... I should sue the people who gave it to me so I can get some money" thats the kind of attitude thats the problem
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 23 2005, 02:29 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 23 2005, 02:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm not saying individualism is bad, I'm just saying that now a days people think mostly if not only of themselves... "hmm I spilt this burning hot coffee on myself... I should sue the people who gave it to me so I can get some money" thats the kind of attitude thats the problem <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I think that is an example of taking advantage of others, rather than thinking for themselves.
There is a definate glorification of the self in today's culture, which can be a bad thing sometimes, but every solution that I've seen is worse than the problem is.
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 23 2005, 02:36 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 23 2005, 02:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> give me a few examples of how the solutions have been worse then the problems , I need a case n point to help me understand <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Like a draft.
<!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Feb 23 2005, 02:45 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Feb 23 2005, 02:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 23 2005, 02:36 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 23 2005, 02:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> give me a few examples of how the solutions have been worse then the problems , I need a case n point to help me understand <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Like a draft. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> yes because getting the man power needed to stop dictators from taking over the world was so horrible right?
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 23 2005, 02:47 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 23 2005, 02:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Feb 23 2005, 02:45 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Feb 23 2005, 02:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 23 2005, 02:36 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 23 2005, 02:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> give me a few examples of how the solutions have been worse then the problems , I need a case n point to help me understand <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Like a draft. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> yes because getting the man power needed to stop dictators from taking over the world was so horrible right? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Dictators wanting to take over the world? Call in James Bond!
Seriously, the last dictator that has seriously wanted to take over the world was Hitler, and I don't see someone like him emerging anytime soon.
Of course there's always the neocon policy of forcibly installing democracies worldwide, but you couldn't be referring to that, could you?
<!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Feb 23 2005, 02:51 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Feb 23 2005, 02:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 23 2005, 02:47 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 23 2005, 02:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Feb 23 2005, 02:45 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Feb 23 2005, 02:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 23 2005, 02:36 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 23 2005, 02:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> give me a few examples of how the solutions have been worse then the problems , I need a case n point to help me understand <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Like a draft. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> yes because getting the man power needed to stop dictators from taking over the world was so horrible right? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Dictators wanting to take over the world? Call in James Bond!
Seriously, the last dictator that has seriously wanted to take over the world was Hitler, and I don't see someone like him emerging anytime soon.
Of course there's always the neocon policy of forcibly installing democracies worldwide, but you couldn't be referring to that, could you? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> there's more dictators in the world then you could wave a stick at.. and all of them if it were in theier power would take over the world and enslave us all in a heartbeat.
all I'm saying is I wouldn't dodge a draft and move to canada just cuz I don't want to fight for my country...
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 22 2005, 09:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 22 2005, 09:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Spacer+Feb 22 2005, 04:26 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Spacer @ Feb 22 2005, 04:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Feb 22 2005, 04:22 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Feb 22 2005, 04:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Only in WW1. WW2 wasn't that bad, at all. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes it was :|. D-day? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> but they were told what they were up agaisnt. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Not completely true. Here's what they were told (the infantry on D-Day):
The weather will be on our side. We've bombarded the enemy's coastal defenses. Tanks will be on the beach to support your advance. Getting up to the enemy lines won't be to difficult.
Here's what happened: The weather in the English channel was ****, even more so than usual. They only bombarded Rommels defenses for 30 minutes, and barely hit anything. Most (read: 90%) of the tanks that were supposed to support the infantry advance on the beach sunk in the channel, because of the weather (the boats carrying the tanks hadn't been tested to support such a load in terrible weather conditions). Getting off the boats alone was nigh impossible, and those that did had to dodge bullets, artillery, mines, and airstrikes. Next to Market Garden, D-Day resulted in the majority of American casualties suffered in the European Theater.
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 23 2005, 02:54 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 23 2005, 02:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Feb 23 2005, 02:51 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Feb 23 2005, 02:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 23 2005, 02:47 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 23 2005, 02:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Feb 23 2005, 02:45 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Feb 23 2005, 02:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 23 2005, 02:36 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 23 2005, 02:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> give me a few examples of how the solutions have been worse then the problems , I need a case n point to help me understand <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Like a draft. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> yes because getting the man power needed to stop dictators from taking over the world was so horrible right? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Dictators wanting to take over the world? Call in James Bond!
Seriously, the last dictator that has seriously wanted to take over the world was Hitler, and I don't see someone like him emerging anytime soon.
Of course there's always the neocon policy of forcibly installing democracies worldwide, but you couldn't be referring to that, could you? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> there's more dictators in the world then you could wave a stick at.. and all of them if it were in theier power would take over the world and enslave us all in a heartbeat.
all I'm saying is I wouldn't dodge a draft and move to canada just cuz I don't want to fight for my country... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> None of those dictators don't have that sort of power and don't have the ambition or resources to get that sort of power.
Yeah, most of those dictators would take power if God instantly granted it to them, but that doesn't mean much.
Frankly, I'd dodge the draft. I won't fight for my country, except if my basic human rights would be violated by an invader (read: oppressive faction taking over the US, not going on some pseudo-imperialist romp through the middle east). If, say, some other democratic country were to take over the US (something that we did to many democratic nations during the cold war, I might add), then I probably wouldn't fight. I don't have any attachment to my nation per se, although I do to many of its principles.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If we were at peace this idea might be plausible because I believe as you seem to that time in the military can make people better more productive citizens. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well I was unfortunate enough to grow into "maturity" during time the military budget of my country was not considered low priority.
That means, they actually drafted everybody back then and not like nowadays when they are happy with every one refusing armed service (in favor for a year of social work) because of the imminent lack of funding. (Back in the cold war era they would take anyone able to walk on his own feet).
I personally do not detest military service. I had wrapped my mind around it myself at the time, as I considered studying medicine back then and thought about doing so on a military university. I am also not bothered with autority nor have I problems with camping and crawling in the dirt. (I play paintball for instance)
Yet I consider this time a total waste of one and a half year. The initial training was fun and kind of demanding, but 3 thirds of the whole time, we were sitting in the barracks and killed time by playing monopoly. We ritually burned that game after half a year, resorting to less demanding ways of killing time, like getting drunk and invent new ways to do so. Most of them were already covered by previous recruits. Like gasmask-drinking. (since the standard issue field water bottle fits into the filterthread of your gasmask, you fill it with a bottle of beer, put the mask on and bent the neck backwards. Drink or drown.) The tank crews have found out that, somehow, miraculously, the air filters of their Leopard2 A5 and upwards do have the exact proportion of a 12pack of canned beer, which makes the tanks ABC defense unit a suitable substitute for a refrigerator.... This kind of **** is what you resort in order to keep yourself from comitting suicide out of boredom. Its especially sad that we do have only very few actual combat drills and even less shooting drills, since those are at least fun.
This overall boringness spreads within any draft army, since you simply do not have enough to do to keep so many recruits buisy,(exept maybe in the navy ...) and if you do, it is exceptional cost intesive.
For most of these people, it is a few years of boring routine, where you virtually loose the ability to think for yourself. Really, It like being catered by momma. All you have to do is clean up your room regularely ...
If you wanna get a good feel of this, I recommed the movie "buffalo soldiers". Admitted, it is exaggerating big time, but it really gives that certain feeling. I really had to smile in nostalgia when watching that movie. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Overall, there are worse things that can happen to you. At least you get some stamina. (cardio-wise.... no, not THAT stamina ... no, not THAT one either...) Also, you get the opportunity to fire a mashinegun. Thats cool, believe me. Especially the MG3... 7.62 x 51 mm. Not such a wimply BB-gun like the Minimi.... that sucker has some punch! And some kickback... a 3 round burst can brake your shoulder when you don't hold it properly <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> ahhh the nostalgia!
<!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Feb 23 2005, 04:04 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Feb 23 2005, 04:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Frankly, I'd dodge the draft. I won't fight for my country, except if my basic human rights would be violated by an invader (read: oppressive faction taking over the US, not going on some pseudo-imperialist romp through the middle east). If, say, some other democratic country were to take over the US (something that we did to many democratic nations during the cold war, I might add), then I probably wouldn't fight. I don't have any attachment to my nation per se, although I do to many of its principles. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Don't know if you've mentioned what country you reside in, but I pray to God it's not America.
Let me add I'm proud of our troops in Iraq, and wish them a speedy and safe return.
<!--QuoteBegin-TommyVercetti+Feb 23 2005, 01:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TommyVercetti @ Feb 23 2005, 01:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And what country are you from Legat? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Germany. I had the luck for having gone to school with the son of the staff major of the single best medical acedemy of the Bundeswehr, (thats because it is the ONLY medical acedemy, of the Bundeswehr <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) who pulled some strings to get me located there. Well it was quite a nice time, and I did not have to leave my hometown. Another bonus was that the medical service was open to women back then. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Also, I lost my fear of needles during the field aid training sessions ... No honestly, I had one of the more interesting and demanding educations in the service, most certainly the best you can have unless trained for combat vehicles/aircraft, special equipment in general, special forces or an officers patent. however, that did not save me from loosing countless braincells to brother booze. The basic problem for a draft army saystem is that it costs unjustifiable amounts of money to sustain. basically You have to employ 300000 men to supply and train 100000 recruits, every year. (those are not the actual numbers, just the average figures to explain the problem). Just the personal costs are a pure waste of money, as most of the soldiers are not willing to participate in foreing assignments anyway, so they are dead capital in these days were small joint operations are paramount. Of yourse, you have a large amount of reservists at your diposal in case of a mobilization scenario. These recruits can be retrained in a few weeks of crash course and are ready for assingment. This however is only an option in the course of an invasion, which is highly unlikely in post-coldwar Europe.
I'm glad I'm not clam's kid... all the other kids dad's would be proud citizens and stuff.. but not clam jr's... no , he doesn't really like the country.... that'd be ruff
I don't think madatory drafts are a good idea right now. if there was a war crisis then maybe I'd say so
Comments
I don't think we'll be able to find any worthwhile enemies to fight for a long time (I read that we could take the next 5 most powerful militaries in the world, by ourselves, and still win; I don't know if it's true, but the fact that it seems possible will make very few people think that a draft is a necessity; plus, we've got a ton of troops at home, in bases all around the world, especially in western europe and south korea, afghanistan, and iraq, and we still are doing OK; Iraq isn't going that well, but it isn't catastrophic, and we can always pull troops out of south korea and europe with very few problems). No one will seriously challenge our military might, until India or China modernizes, militarizes, and turns hostile.
Only in WW1. WW2 wasn't that bad, at all.
Yes it was :|. D-day?
I seriously doubt this. Why not go talk to an Army recruiter for the facts?
<!--QuoteBegin-theclam Feb 22 2005+ 04:02 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam Feb 22 2005 @ 04:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Also, if you want to look at Vietnam for an example of how horribly wrong an army can be if it's drafted, then I think you'll be enlightened. We had a considerable advantage over every other military force in the world, just like we do now, but if you look at the military successes (yes, I'm well aware that Vietnam is an incredibly difficult country terrain-wise to invade, especially against a guerilla force that knows the area well) and the way our troops treated the natives and each other, you should see that a draft is a bad idea.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The fact that Viet Nam was fought with a large number of draftees is true. Your assuming the reason America lost that war because of it couldn't be farther from the truth. But if you'd rather debate the Viet Nam war than this topic, feel free to start a seperate thread. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I contend that it should be mandatory for all graduates of high school (or the equivalent thereof) to do a 2 year hitch in the armed forces of their choice, minimum age 18. That's my oppinion, we welcome yours. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, it's worked for the Swiss. In Switzerland, a 2-year service in the military is mandatory, and assault-grade weapon ownership is compulsory. Of course, the Swiss are true isolationists and only have these laws as a preventative measure in the case that a foreign power invades their soil.
As for me, since I am a current member of Americas armed services I'd say that although a required 2-year tenor in the Armed Services would be ideal. However, I know that certain people aren't fit for military service (physical/mental requirements), and to force them to serve would be unfair them, and potentially dangerous to those around them. So, although it's a good idea, it should really remain just an idea (for now).
**EDIT** Stop derailing the topic, people. You wanna talk about homosexual parents and modern marital values? Go create a thread about and talk there. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks for your post Renegade, and I agree there's a select few here that find it extremely difficult to stay on topic.
And ATM, girls dont need to serve the 2.5 years. Talk about women's rights!
And ATM, girls dont need to serve the 2.5 years. Talk about women's rights! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Interesting ... what country is this? And do most who have completed it feel they benefited?
Yes it was :|. D-day? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
D-Day sucked, but the average life for someone in the infantry wasn't even near 1 day.
Sure, some people would benefit from it, but at the same time many won't (or at least won't get as much as you did out of it), and to those people it would be unfair to take away those two years that they would rather spend in college or working. I'm not arguing against 18 year olds having the option of going into the military if they need it or want it, I'm arguing against a blanket "all high school grads go to the army" rule.
I seriously doubt this. Why not go talk to an Army recruiter for the facts?
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you actually read what I said after that, then I said that I had made a flawed example that would prove AvengerX wrong. I certainly don't think that my statement applies to most of the people entering the military.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-theclam Feb 22 2005+ 04:02 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam Feb 22 2005 @ 04:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Also, if you want to look at Vietnam for an example of how horribly wrong an army can be if it's drafted, then I think you'll be enlightened. We had a considerable advantage over every other military force in the world, just like we do now, but if you look at the military successes (yes, I'm well aware that Vietnam is an incredibly difficult country terrain-wise to invade, especially against a guerilla force that knows the area well) and the way our troops treated the natives and each other, you should see that a draft is a bad idea.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The fact that Viet Nam was fought with a large number of draftees is true. Your assuming the reason America lost that war because of it couldn't be farther from the truth. But if you'd rather debate the Viet Nam war than this topic, feel free to start a seperate thread. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you look in my parathensesis, you will see that I said that there were other problems regarding Vietnam. The draft sure didn't help, however.
Yes it was :|. D-day? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
but they were told what they were up agaisnt. they told the men to write home seeing how odds are they'd more then likely be dead after tomorrow. and unlike today back then people seemed to know that sometimes sacrificing yourself for the greater good is worth it, unlike today where its all about individual rights and society is the enemy.
Yes it was :|. D-day? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
but they were told what they were up agaisnt. they told the men to write home seeing how odds are they'd more then likely be dead after tomorrow. and unlike today back then people seemed to know that sometimes sacrificing yourself for the greater good is worth it, unlike today where its all about individual rights and <b>society is the enemy.</b> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
WTH?
Do you think that today's army is worse in terms of duty and sacrifice of individual rights than the army was in the 40s?
We have gotten so much better at psychological warfare towards our own troops, in order to turn them into efficient killing machines. The percentage of men who fired their guns against the enemy in WW2 was about 15-20%. This is because the troops didn't want to kill someone. In Korea, it went up to 50%; Vietnam ~70%; now, it's even higher, because troops are trained to be cogs in a machine, fighting against satanic enemies, for the good of their country.
Individualism is a problem (I don't think it is, but you sure do) in society as a whole, not within the military. There exists a large exception among young officers, but not among enlisted men.
I think that is an example of taking advantage of others, rather than thinking for themselves.
There is a definate glorification of the self in today's culture, which can be a bad thing sometimes, but every solution that I've seen is worse than the problem is.
Like a draft.
Like a draft. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes because getting the man power needed to stop dictators from taking over the world was so horrible right?
Like a draft. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes because getting the man power needed to stop dictators from taking over the world was so horrible right? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dictators wanting to take over the world? Call in James Bond!
Seriously, the last dictator that has seriously wanted to take over the world was Hitler, and I don't see someone like him emerging anytime soon.
Of course there's always the neocon policy of forcibly installing democracies worldwide, but you couldn't be referring to that, could you?
Like a draft. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes because getting the man power needed to stop dictators from taking over the world was so horrible right? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dictators wanting to take over the world? Call in James Bond!
Seriously, the last dictator that has seriously wanted to take over the world was Hitler, and I don't see someone like him emerging anytime soon.
Of course there's always the neocon policy of forcibly installing democracies worldwide, but you couldn't be referring to that, could you? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
there's more dictators in the world then you could wave a stick at.. and all of them if it were in theier power would take over the world and enslave us all in a heartbeat.
all I'm saying is I wouldn't dodge a draft and move to canada just cuz I don't want to fight for my country...
Yes it was :|. D-day? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
but they were told what they were up agaisnt. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not completely true. Here's what they were told (the infantry on D-Day):
The weather will be on our side. We've bombarded the enemy's coastal defenses. Tanks will be on the beach to support your advance. Getting up to the enemy lines won't be to difficult.
Here's what happened: The weather in the English channel was ****, even more so than usual. They only bombarded Rommels defenses for 30 minutes, and barely hit anything. Most (read: 90%) of the tanks that were supposed to support the infantry advance on the beach sunk in the channel, because of the weather (the boats carrying the tanks hadn't been tested to support such a load in terrible weather conditions). Getting off the boats alone was nigh impossible, and those that did had to dodge bullets, artillery, mines, and airstrikes. Next to Market Garden, D-Day resulted in the majority of American casualties suffered in the European Theater.
Like a draft. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes because getting the man power needed to stop dictators from taking over the world was so horrible right? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dictators wanting to take over the world? Call in James Bond!
Seriously, the last dictator that has seriously wanted to take over the world was Hitler, and I don't see someone like him emerging anytime soon.
Of course there's always the neocon policy of forcibly installing democracies worldwide, but you couldn't be referring to that, could you? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
there's more dictators in the world then you could wave a stick at.. and all of them if it were in theier power would take over the world and enslave us all in a heartbeat.
all I'm saying is I wouldn't dodge a draft and move to canada just cuz I don't want to fight for my country... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
None of those dictators don't have that sort of power and don't have the ambition or resources to get that sort of power.
Yeah, most of those dictators would take power if God instantly granted it to them, but that doesn't mean much.
Frankly, I'd dodge the draft. I won't fight for my country, except if my basic human rights would be violated by an invader (read: oppressive faction taking over the US, not going on some pseudo-imperialist romp through the middle east). If, say, some other democratic country were to take over the US (something that we did to many democratic nations during the cold war, I might add), then I probably wouldn't fight. I don't have any attachment to my nation per se, although I do to many of its principles.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well I was unfortunate enough to grow into "maturity" during time the military budget of my country was not considered low priority.
That means, they actually drafted everybody back then and not like nowadays when they are happy with every one refusing armed service (in favor for a year of social work) because of the imminent lack of funding. (Back in the cold war era they would take anyone able to walk on his own feet).
I personally do not detest military service. I had wrapped my mind around it myself at the time, as I considered studying medicine back then and thought about doing so on a military university. I am also not bothered with autority nor have I problems with camping and crawling in the dirt. (I play paintball for instance)
Yet I consider this time a total waste of one and a half year. The initial training was fun and kind of demanding, but 3 thirds of the whole time, we were sitting in the barracks and killed time by playing monopoly. We ritually burned that game after half a year, resorting to less demanding ways of killing time, like getting drunk and invent new ways to do so. Most of them were already covered by previous recruits.
Like gasmask-drinking. (since the standard issue field water bottle fits into the filterthread of your gasmask, you fill it with a bottle of beer, put the mask on and bent the neck backwards. Drink or drown.)
The tank crews have found out that, somehow, miraculously, the air filters of their Leopard2 A5 and upwards do have the exact proportion of a 12pack of canned beer, which makes the tanks ABC defense unit a suitable substitute for a refrigerator....
This kind of **** is what you resort in order to keep yourself from comitting suicide out of boredom. Its especially sad that we do have only very few actual combat drills and even less shooting drills, since those are at least fun.
This overall boringness spreads within any draft army, since you simply do not have enough to do to keep so many recruits buisy,(exept maybe in the navy ...) and if you do, it is exceptional cost intesive.
For most of these people, it is a few years of boring routine, where you virtually loose the ability to think for yourself. Really, It like being catered by momma. All you have to do is clean up your room regularely ...
If you wanna get a good feel of this, I recommed the movie "buffalo soldiers". Admitted, it is exaggerating big time, but it really gives that certain feeling. I really had to smile in nostalgia when watching that movie. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Overall, there are worse things that can happen to you. At least you get some stamina. (cardio-wise.... no, not THAT stamina ... no, not THAT one either...)
Also, you get the opportunity to fire a mashinegun. Thats cool, believe me. Especially the MG3... 7.62 x 51 mm. Not such a wimply BB-gun like the Minimi.... that sucker has some punch! And some kickback... a 3 round burst can brake your shoulder when you don't hold it properly <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> ahhh the nostalgia!
Don't know if you've mentioned what country you reside in, but I pray to God it's not America.
Let me add I'm proud of our troops in Iraq, and wish them a speedy and safe return.
Germany. I had the luck for having gone to school with the son of the staff major of the single best medical acedemy of the Bundeswehr, (thats because it is the ONLY medical acedemy, of the Bundeswehr <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) who pulled some strings to get me located there.
Well it was quite a nice time, and I did not have to leave my hometown.
Another bonus was that the medical service was open to women back then. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Also, I lost my fear of needles during the field aid training sessions ...
No honestly, I had one of the more interesting and demanding educations in the service, most certainly the best you can have unless trained for combat vehicles/aircraft, special equipment in general, special forces or an officers patent.
however, that did not save me from loosing countless braincells to brother booze.
The basic problem for a draft army saystem is that it costs unjustifiable amounts of money to sustain. basically You have to employ 300000 men to supply and train 100000 recruits, every year. (those are not the actual numbers, just the average figures to explain the problem).
Just the personal costs are a pure waste of money, as most of the soldiers are not willing to participate in foreing assignments anyway, so they are dead capital in these days were small joint operations are paramount.
Of yourse, you have a large amount of reservists at your diposal in case of a mobilization scenario. These recruits can be retrained in a few weeks of crash course and are ready for assingment. This however is only an option in the course of an invasion, which is highly unlikely in post-coldwar Europe.
I don't think madatory drafts are a good idea right now. if there was a war crisis then maybe I'd say so