<!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Feb 21 2005, 06:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Feb 21 2005, 06:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I was commenting on the fact that you don't consider learning to fight being a "significant" part of your army service. I never said that you didn't get anything else out of it, I just found it incredibly stupid that you would try to downplay your combat training.
On the topic of choosing your MOS vs. getting drafted....well if you only had those two choices, of course you would enlist; that doesn't make it desirable and that certainly doesn't justify it as being mandatory for high school grads.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I downplayed the combat training because that part failed to provide me with any skills I would need in real life, <b>especially</b> compared to what benefits I reaped form the rest of my training. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Sorry you find that incredibly stupid, but that's the way it was.
I would hope one would enlist as oppose to getting drafted, but the last draft the U.S. had would disprove that theory I'm sure.
<!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Feb 21 2005, 06:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Feb 21 2005, 06:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> [edit]You...were in frickin Korea....and you want to FORCE 18 YEAR OLDS INTO THAT!? You are seriously the only war veteran I have ever met that recalls their experiences fondly. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not once did I lay claim to being a war veteran. If you'll dust the cobwebs off your history book you'll see the Korean War was in the early 50's I believe. As a matter of fact, if you'll take the time to actually <i>read</i> this thread, you'll find out I enlisted to prevent from getting drafted and going to Viet Nam.
But sky, if you <b>REALLY</b> want to talk to some proud wartime veterans that would brag on their service in the Armed Forces and tell you in a NY minute what THEY benefited from it all, step out of your cave and you'll find em - they're out there man, all over.
Hey, stranger things have been done on these boards than 60 year olds. Mayhaps I thought you just came here to argue. You said you were in Korea; in my tired state I assumed that meant you were in the Korean War. Much to my surprise, you were in Korea during the Vietnam War.....oh yeah, that's character building right there. Don't want to go to war and/or don't like the war that's being fought? Instead of standing up for what you believe, grab a post somewhere else.
I mean, it doesn't even sound like you were in combat. Guess what, we're in a frickin war right now, and anyone who signs up is going to the Middle East. There is no Korea to be assigned to now; everything's going to the real hotspot. So....to force that on someone, while yourself having gone through what I would consider a cakewalk by comparison.....yeah, why are you advocating this again?
And as for finding people who would brag about killing, being in a war, and stuff like that, it's quite obvious that you have never been in a real war. The best part about being a soldier was coming home, and that's straight from my grandfather's mouth (WWII paratrooper). If you're proud of and enjoy what you do in the army(which is different from being proud of serving your country; that would be patriotic) you are quite frankly slightly psychotic. Normal people don't enjoy killing other people. You can be proud you're defending your country, but <i>braggin</i> about their service? Somehow I doubt it.
<!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Feb 21 2005, 08:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Feb 21 2005, 08:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hey, stranger things have been done on these boards than 60 year olds. Mayhaps I thought you just came here to argue. You said you were in Korea; in my tired state I assumed that meant you were in the Korean War. Much to my surprise, you were in Korea during the Vietnam War.....oh yeah, that's character building right there. Don't want to go to war and/or don't like the war that's being fought? Instead of standing up for what you believe, grab a post somewhere else.
I mean, it doesn't even sound like you were in combat. Guess what, we're in a frickin war right now, and anyone who signs up is going to the Middle East. There is no Korea to be assigned to now; everything's going to the real hotspot. So....to force that on someone, while yourself having gone through what I would consider a cakewalk by comparison.....yeah, why are you advocating this again?
And as for finding people who would brag about killing, being in a war, and stuff like that, it's quite obvious that you have never been in a real war. The best part about being a soldier was coming home, and that's straight from my grandfather's mouth (WWII paratrooper). If you're proud of and enjoy what you do in the army(which is different from being proud of serving your country; that would be patriotic) you are quite frankly slightly psychotic. Normal people don't enjoy killing other people. You can be proud you're defending your country, but <i>braggin</i> about their service? Somehow I doubt it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> As a matter of fact, they wouldn't le me go to Viet Nam as my brother was serving there. And by virtue of my joining the armed forces of the U.S.A. I fulfilled my obligations to this fine country. It's called patriotism. As stated already several times in this thread my 3 year hitch in the Army did a fine job of building character and instilling discipline. The fact I didn't see combat hardly detracts from this as you'd like it to.
You've made your point in disagreeing with my suggestion, and that's fine.
Seems you love to take things out of context and twist words around. Show me where I said you'd find veterans bragging about being in the war and killing people. Don't know how you got THAT from THIS: "proud wartime veterans that would brag on their service in the Armed Forces and tell you in a NY minute what THEY benefited from it all". I never once said or inferred that "normal people enjoy killing other people". I said they were proud to serve (as was I) and that they too benefited from their service.
I am very proud of what I did in the Army and enjoyed it, and I was proud to serve my country and consider myself patriotic. Nothing you can say in this thread can take this away from me. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Try to stay on topic, eh? <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
One only owes the military his time when the chicoms or some other force are invading this country. No kid should be obligated to stroke a DI's ego once he gets his diploma.
<!--QuoteBegin-Fat Man Little Coat+Feb 21 2005, 09:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fat Man Little Coat @ Feb 21 2005, 09:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> To join the army with out the expectation of killing/fighting isn't really an army, its just a service provided to turn young brats into young men. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Interesting interpretation, albeit far from the truth. Anyone who joins the armed forces is trained to prepare for war. Whether a soldier has the expectation of fighting/killing would depending on the particular world events at the time and the situations envolving his joining.
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
As with anything, this might be good for some, I'll even say alot, however not for everyone. Knowing from myself that not everything I'm opposed to wouldn't help me, I think it's up the individual/family/guardians and not the goverment in the end that should make that call. Sending youth criminals to the army and after their period os over, offer them a job there would be a good idea.. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Epidemic+Feb 21 2005, 10:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Epidemic @ Feb 21 2005, 10:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Sending youth criminals to the army and after their period os over, offer them a job there would be a good idea.. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Sounds like you and Spacer concur on this ... he wanted to send the high school flunkies. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
edited February 2005
<!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Feb 21 2005, 03:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Feb 21 2005, 03:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Epidemic+Feb 21 2005, 10:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Epidemic @ Feb 21 2005, 10:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Sending youth criminals to the army and after their period os over, offer them a job there would be a good idea.. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sounds like you and Spacer concur on this ... he wanted to send the high school flunkies. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, not really, there was a hint of eugenics in Spacer's post. I inteded my post to say, that the military would decriminalize them, I said offer them a contract after the period if over, not obligatory. And there's a difference between sending flunkies or criminals to the military, the criminals atleast knew what was coming if they broke the law <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Feb 21 2005, 08:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Feb 21 2005, 08:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Fat Man Little Coat+Feb 21 2005, 09:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fat Man Little Coat @ Feb 21 2005, 09:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> To join the army with out the expectation of killing/fighting isn't really an army, its just a service provided to turn young brats into young men. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Interesting interpretation, albeit far from the truth. Anyone who joins the armed forces is trained to prepare for war. Whether a soldier has the expectation of fighting/killing would depending on the particular world events at the time and the situations envolving his joining. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> So would you offer the same suggestion of a requirement of sending men to the army if we were engaged in a larger scale conflict? In a sense, your suggesting that training to kill people is a good way to learn discipline?
<!--QuoteBegin-Fat Man Little Coat+Feb 21 2005, 11:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fat Man Little Coat @ Feb 21 2005, 11:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Feb 21 2005, 08:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Feb 21 2005, 08:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Fat Man Little Coat+Feb 21 2005, 09:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fat Man Little Coat @ Feb 21 2005, 09:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> To join the army with out the expectation of killing/fighting isn't really an army, its just a service provided to turn young brats into young men. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Interesting interpretation, albeit far from the truth. Anyone who joins the armed forces is trained to prepare for war. Whether a soldier has the expectation of fighting/killing would depending on the particular world events at the time and the situations envolving his joining. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> So would you offer the same suggestion of a requirement of sending men to the army if we were engaged in a larger scale conflict? In a sense, your suggesting that training to kill people is a good way to learn discipline? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If we were engaged in a larger scale conflict, the draft would probably be activated.
yes... I suppose if were we threatened with a force strong enough to invade us then we would have a draft... but seeing how not to many country's can even come close to beating the U.S. I don't think were in much trouble.
this is a terrible idea now that I think about it. theres better ways and programs to make kids grow into better adults. one of which I believe is strentghtening the family... its the building block of society and if the family fails. so will everything else. I'd like to see more men going out and bringing home the bacon so there wives don't have to work full-time jobs. I'd like to see people get the idea that homosexuals don't allways make the best parents. and I'd like to see the divorce rate go down. I think doing that would make the world a better place 10X more so then this idea
<!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Feb 21 2005, 10:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Feb 21 2005, 10:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Fat Man Little Coat+Feb 21 2005, 11:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fat Man Little Coat @ Feb 21 2005, 11:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So would you offer the same suggestion of a requirement of sending men to the army if we were engaged in a larger scale conflict? In a sense, your suggesting that training to kill people is a good way to learn discipline? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If we were engaged in a larger scale conflict, the draft would probably be activated. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> But thats not the context of this argument.
The question I proposed is more relevant and likely than one where we re-instated the draft and started drafting again.
In other words, I think its much more likely that the current conflict we're in is going to get larger than it is likely that the draft is going to be activated.
Not to even mention the fact anyone who joins the army now or is in it currently is likely to be part of a backdoor draft as is (stop loss anyone?).
And you never answered teh question in the above quote.
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 21 2005, 11:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 21 2005, 11:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'd like to see people get the idea that homosexuals don't allways make the best parents. and I'd like to see the divorce rate go down. I think doing that would make the world a better place 10X more so then this idea <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't think most people think that homosexuals make the best parents. As far as the divorce rate going down, not going to happen.
Traditional marriage is flawed in modern society and outdated.
<!--QuoteBegin-Fat Man Little Coat+Feb 22 2005, 12:08 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fat Man Little Coat @ Feb 22 2005, 12:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Traditional marriage is flawed in modern society and outdated.
There I said it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> wow.... the only reason society today exists is because of the family unit.
let me guess, you believe that we should clone people. grow children in colonies and mass produce soldiers/citizens/cyborgs
WHAT THE HECK MAN. I don't even know what kind of sick ant colony life you want to opress on us.
while I agre like some marriges are just for money (like kerry and the ketchup lady) that doens't mean that all marriges are like that. a lot of people do marry because they love thier spouse and want to be with them.
and secondly, the reason half of marriges fail isn't because the idea of marrige, its because today's society tears apart wholesome values. look at TV. sex and porn is running ramped. drugs and voilence are glorified in the eyes of our youth. no wonder kids grow up to beat their wives. when they've been brainwashed by such media
<!--QuoteBegin-SkulkBait+Feb 22 2005, 01:10 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SkulkBait @ Feb 22 2005, 01:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> HOW IN GOD'S DAMNABLE NAME DID THIS TOPIC BECOME ANNOTHER HOMOSEXUAL THREAD!!!??? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ummm.. right now were disscusing marrige in the world today... thast not really anything to do with homosexuality ... seeing that homosexuals can't get married in most places. and we've covered that so we'll probly be getting back to if joining the milatary after highschool is a good idea.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And secondly, the reason half of marriges fail isn't because the idea of marrige, its because today's society tears apart wholesome values. look at TV. sex and porn is running ramped.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> On TV? In plain view of the FCC? I think not. Look at what a big stink was made over that whole half-time debacle.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->drugs and voilence are glorified in the eyes of our youth. no wonder kids grow up to beat their wives. when they've been brainwashed by such media <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> People we're beating their wives since long before TV was invented. In fact, for a long time it was encouraged to keep them in line that way. The reason the divorce rate is up is that divorce is no longer looked down upon by society (at least, not like it used to be). That doesn't mean that families are any less wholesome then they were before, it just means that they aren't hiding it anymore.
<!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Feb 20 2005, 07:44 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Feb 20 2005, 07:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Having served a 3 year hitch with the U.S. Army following the completion of high school, I was recently forced to reflect on how this affected the rest of my adult life. In doing so I determined it was probably the most influential and character-forming time in my life, short of the fine job my parents did in raising me. It has forced me to wake up when the alarm goes off <i>early</i>, to appreciate a <i>hot</i> home-cooked meal, to be orderly, organised, and disciplined, and to respect authority, just to name a few things. It made a young man out of me.
I contend that it should be mandatory for all graduates of high school (or the equivalent thereof) to do a 2 year hitch in the armed forces of their choice, minimum age 18. That's my oppinion, we welcome yours. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, it's worked for the Swiss. In Switzerland, a 2-year service in the military is mandatory, and assault-grade weapon ownership is compulsory. Of course, the Swiss are true isolationists and only have these laws as a preventative measure in the case that a foreign power invades their soil.
As for me, since I am a current member of Americas armed services I'd say that although a required 2-year tenor in the Armed Services would be ideal. However, I know that certain people aren't fit for military service (physical/mental requirements), and to force them to serve would be unfair them, and potentially dangerous to those around them. So, although it's a good idea, it should really remain just an idea (for now).
**EDIT** Stop derailing the topic, people. You wanna talk about homosexual parents and modern marital values? Go create a thread about and talk there.
you could allways just provide options. for people not cut out for milatary, send them to do something they are cut out for. why not only get good soldiers out of this? we could get a lot of people good at diffrent things
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 22 2005, 02:09 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 22 2005, 02:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> you could allways just provide options. for people not cut out for milatary, send them to do something they are cut out for. why not only get good soldiers out of this? we could get a lot of people good at diffrent things <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Mandatory drafts don't make good soldiers. One of the reasons that America has the best fighting force in the world (by a HUGE margin, I may add), is that the force is 100% volunteer only.
Plus, why make the world a more authoritarian place, unless we have to? This sounds suspiciously like communism, where people are assigned jobs based upon their abilities.
<!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Feb 22 2005, 02:30 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Feb 22 2005, 02:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 22 2005, 02:09 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 22 2005, 02:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> you could allways just provide options. for people not cut out for milatary, send them to do something they are cut out for. why not only get good soldiers out of this? we could get a lot of people good at diffrent things <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Mandatory drafts don't make good soldiers. One of the reasons that America has the best fighting force in the world (by a HUGE margin, I may add), is that the force is 100% volunteer only.
Plus, why make the world a more authoritarian place, unless we have to? This sounds suspiciously like communism, where people are assigned jobs based upon their abilities. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> thats not entirly true. some people join the milatary not because they want to. but because its the only way to pay for colledge. so thats not really a 100% volentary
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 22 2005, 02:38 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 22 2005, 02:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Feb 22 2005, 02:30 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Feb 22 2005, 02:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 22 2005, 02:09 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 22 2005, 02:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> you could allways just provide options. for people not cut out for milatary, send them to do something they are cut out for. why not only get good soldiers out of this? we could get a lot of people good at diffrent things <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Mandatory drafts don't make good soldiers. One of the reasons that America has the best fighting force in the world (by a HUGE margin, I may add), is that the force is 100% volunteer only.
Plus, why make the world a more authoritarian place, unless we have to? This sounds suspiciously like communism, where people are assigned jobs based upon their abilities. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> thats not entirly true. some people join the milatary not because they want to. but because its the only way to pay for colledge. so thats not really a 100% volentary <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> People get jobs, not because they want to, but because they want to live comfortably. It's entirely possible to live off of welfare. Sure, you're life would be crappy, but you would still live.
People join the military, not because they want to, but because they want to go to college. It's entirely possible to life fine without a college education. Sure, you won't get a great job, but you'll live ok, and your kids will have a good chance of getting a scholarship if you teach them to value education.
<!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Feb 22 2005, 02:40 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Feb 22 2005, 02:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 22 2005, 02:38 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 22 2005, 02:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Feb 22 2005, 02:30 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Feb 22 2005, 02:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 22 2005, 02:09 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 22 2005, 02:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> you could allways just provide options. for people not cut out for milatary, send them to do something they are cut out for. why not only get good soldiers out of this? we could get a lot of people good at diffrent things <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Mandatory drafts don't make good soldiers. One of the reasons that America has the best fighting force in the world (by a HUGE margin, I may add), is that the force is 100% volunteer only.
Plus, why make the world a more authoritarian place, unless we have to? This sounds suspiciously like communism, where people are assigned jobs based upon their abilities. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> thats not entirly true. some people join the milatary not because they want to. but because its the only way to pay for colledge. so thats not really a 100% volentary <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> People get jobs, not because they want to, but because they want to live comfortably. It's entirely possible to live off of welfare. Sure, you're life would be crappy, but you would still live.
People join the military, not because they want to, but because they want to go to college. It's entirely possible to life fine without a college education. Sure, you won't get a great job, but you'll live ok, and your kids will have a good chance of getting a scholarship if you teach them to value education.
Same thing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I guess I see you point there. but some poeple do join the military beacause they WANT to. ya know, like some people just love the idea of it. and I think we should just get those people super well trained and armed, and have a kick butt army that no one could stop
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 21 2005, 11:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 21 2005, 11:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> guess I see you point there. but some poeple do join the military beacause they WANT to. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Read: 90%
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 22 2005, 02:51 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 22 2005, 02:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Feb 22 2005, 02:40 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Feb 22 2005, 02:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 22 2005, 02:38 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 22 2005, 02:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Feb 22 2005, 02:30 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Feb 22 2005, 02:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 22 2005, 02:09 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 22 2005, 02:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> you could allways just provide options. for people not cut out for milatary, send them to do something they are cut out for. why not only get good soldiers out of this? we could get a lot of people good at diffrent things <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Mandatory drafts don't make good soldiers. One of the reasons that America has the best fighting force in the world (by a HUGE margin, I may add), is that the force is 100% volunteer only.
Plus, why make the world a more authoritarian place, unless we have to? This sounds suspiciously like communism, where people are assigned jobs based upon their abilities. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> thats not entirly true. some people join the milatary not because they want to. but because its the only way to pay for colledge. so thats not really a 100% volentary <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> People get jobs, not because they want to, but because they want to live comfortably. It's entirely possible to live off of welfare. Sure, you're life would be crappy, but you would still live.
People join the military, not because they want to, but because they want to go to college. It's entirely possible to life fine without a college education. Sure, you won't get a great job, but you'll live ok, and your kids will have a good chance of getting a scholarship if you teach them to value education.
Same thing. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I guess I see you point there. but some poeple do join the military beacause they WANT to. ya know, like some people just love the idea of it. and I think we should just get those people super well trained and armed, and have a kick butt army that no one could stop <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Some people take Jobs because they like them, not just because they want to have internet access. I wanted to prove you wrong succinctly.
Also, if you want to look at Vietnam for an example of how horribly wrong an army can be if it's drafted, then I think you'll be enlightened. We had a considerable advantage over every other military force in the world, just like we do now, but if you look at the military successes (yes, I'm well aware that Vietnam is an incredibly difficult country terrain-wise to invade, especially against a guerilla force that knows the area well) and the way our troops treated the natives and each other, you should see that a draft is a bad idea. The ONLY reason that we will see a draft again is if America actually faces a severe threat to its sovereignty (nothing terrorism or anything outside of our borders could bring, I'm talking about China invading in 2050, or something like that). The public doesn't want a draft, so it would be legislative suicide to instate one. The military doesn't want a draft because the soldiers are unmotivated, so they lack carefulness, patience, and training.
There are some first world countries that have drafts with few problems. Switzerland has a draft, but they don't have any threats to their sovereignty at all, very few non-UN-type military excursions, no post-(like France had in Africa during the late 20th century) or psuedo-(like America does now) Colonial obligations, and (IIRC) an option to go into some civil endeavor for a moderately larger period of time.
but drafts work when there is good reason to fight. there were drafts in WWII and people were motavated.. so maybe the trick is finding a better enemy then terrorists to fight, that way we get motavated soldiers out in the field and a little support behind war
Comments
On the topic of choosing your MOS vs. getting drafted....well if you only had those two choices, of course you would enlist; that doesn't make it desirable and that certainly doesn't justify it as being mandatory for high school grads.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I downplayed the combat training because that part failed to provide me with any skills I would need in real life, <b>especially</b> compared to what benefits I reaped form the rest of my training. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Sorry you find that incredibly stupid, but that's the way it was.
I would hope one would enlist as oppose to getting drafted, but the last draft the U.S. had would disprove that theory I'm sure.
<!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Feb 21 2005, 06:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Feb 21 2005, 06:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> [edit]You...were in frickin Korea....and you want to FORCE 18 YEAR OLDS INTO THAT!? You are seriously the only war veteran I have ever met that recalls their experiences fondly. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not once did I lay claim to being a war veteran. If you'll dust the cobwebs off your history book you'll see the Korean War was in the early 50's I believe. As a matter of fact, if you'll take the time to actually <i>read</i> this thread, you'll find out I enlisted to prevent from getting drafted and going to Viet Nam.
But sky, if you <b>REALLY</b> want to talk to some proud wartime veterans that would brag on their service in the Armed Forces and tell you in a NY minute what THEY benefited from it all, step out of your cave and you'll find em - they're out there man, all over.
I mean, it doesn't even sound like you were in combat. Guess what, we're in a frickin war right now, and anyone who signs up is going to the Middle East. There is no Korea to be assigned to now; everything's going to the real hotspot. So....to force that on someone, while yourself having gone through what I would consider a cakewalk by comparison.....yeah, why are you advocating this again?
And as for finding people who would brag about killing, being in a war, and stuff like that, it's quite obvious that you have never been in a real war. The best part about being a soldier was coming home, and that's straight from my grandfather's mouth (WWII paratrooper). If you're proud of and enjoy what you do in the army(which is different from being proud of serving your country; that would be patriotic) you are quite frankly slightly psychotic. Normal people don't enjoy killing other people. You can be proud you're defending your country, but <i>braggin</i> about their service? Somehow I doubt it.
I mean, it doesn't even sound like you were in combat. Guess what, we're in a frickin war right now, and anyone who signs up is going to the Middle East. There is no Korea to be assigned to now; everything's going to the real hotspot. So....to force that on someone, while yourself having gone through what I would consider a cakewalk by comparison.....yeah, why are you advocating this again?
And as for finding people who would brag about killing, being in a war, and stuff like that, it's quite obvious that you have never been in a real war. The best part about being a soldier was coming home, and that's straight from my grandfather's mouth (WWII paratrooper). If you're proud of and enjoy what you do in the army(which is different from being proud of serving your country; that would be patriotic) you are quite frankly slightly psychotic. Normal people don't enjoy killing other people. You can be proud you're defending your country, but <i>braggin</i> about their service? Somehow I doubt it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As a matter of fact, they wouldn't le me go to Viet Nam as my brother was serving there. And by virtue of my joining the armed forces of the U.S.A. I fulfilled my obligations to this fine country. It's called patriotism. As stated already several times in this thread my 3 year hitch in the Army did a fine job of building character and instilling discipline. The fact I didn't see combat hardly detracts from this as you'd like it to.
You've made your point in disagreeing with my suggestion, and that's fine.
Seems you love to take things out of context and twist words around. Show me where I said you'd find veterans bragging about being in the war and killing people. Don't know how you got THAT from THIS: "proud wartime veterans that would brag on their service in the Armed Forces and tell you in a NY minute what THEY benefited from it all". I never once said or inferred that "normal people enjoy killing other people". I said they were proud to serve (as was I) and that they too benefited from their service.
I am very proud of what I did in the Army and enjoyed it, and I was proud to serve my country and consider myself patriotic. Nothing you can say in this thread can take this away from me. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Try to stay on topic, eh? <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Thank you for your service, BTW.
You joined the army but don't state the horrors of war.
The two exist with each other.
To join the army with out the expectation of killing/fighting isn't really an army, its just a service provided to turn young brats into young men.
Which is all fine and good, but to have that as a requirement is borderline brainwashing.
Interesting interpretation, albeit far from the truth. Anyone who joins the armed forces is trained to prepare for war. Whether a soldier has the expectation of fighting/killing would depending on the particular world events at the time and the situations envolving his joining.
Sounds like you and Spacer concur on this ... he wanted to send the high school flunkies. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Sounds like you and Spacer concur on this ... he wanted to send the high school flunkies. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, not really, there was a hint of eugenics in Spacer's post. I inteded my post to say, that the military would decriminalize them, I said offer them a contract after the period if over, not obligatory. And there's a difference between sending flunkies or criminals to the military, the criminals atleast knew what was coming if they broke the law <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Interesting interpretation, albeit far from the truth. Anyone who joins the armed forces is trained to prepare for war. Whether a soldier has the expectation of fighting/killing would depending on the particular world events at the time and the situations envolving his joining. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
So would you offer the same suggestion of a requirement of sending men to the army if we were engaged in a larger scale conflict? In a sense, your suggesting that training to kill people is a good way to learn discipline?
Interesting interpretation, albeit far from the truth. Anyone who joins the armed forces is trained to prepare for war. Whether a soldier has the expectation of fighting/killing would depending on the particular world events at the time and the situations envolving his joining. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So would you offer the same suggestion of a requirement of sending men to the army if we were engaged in a larger scale conflict? In a sense, your suggesting that training to kill people is a good way to learn discipline? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If we were engaged in a larger scale conflict, the draft would probably be activated.
this is a terrible idea now that I think about it. theres better ways and programs to make kids grow into better adults. one of which I believe is strentghtening the family... its the building block of society and if the family fails. so will everything else. I'd like to see more men going out and bringing home the bacon so there wives don't have to work full-time jobs. I'd like to see people get the idea that homosexuals don't allways make the best parents. and I'd like to see the divorce rate go down. I think doing that would make the world a better place 10X more so then this idea
Finally someone else understands where I'm coming from
So would you offer the same suggestion of a requirement of sending men to the army if we were engaged in a larger scale conflict? In a sense, your suggesting that training to kill people is a good way to learn discipline? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If we were engaged in a larger scale conflict, the draft would probably be activated. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
But thats not the context of this argument.
The question I proposed is more relevant and likely than one where we re-instated the draft and started drafting again.
In other words, I think its much more likely that the current conflict we're in is going to get larger than it is likely that the draft is going to be activated.
Not to even mention the fact anyone who joins the army now or is in it currently is likely to be part of a backdoor draft as is (stop loss anyone?).
And you never answered teh question in the above quote.
I don't think most people think that homosexuals make the best parents. As far as the divorce rate going down, not going to happen.
Traditional marriage is flawed in modern society and outdated.
There I said it.
There I said it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
wow.... the only reason society today exists is because of the family unit.
let me guess, you believe that we should clone people. grow children in colonies and mass produce soldiers/citizens/cyborgs
WHAT THE HECK MAN. I don't even know what kind of sick ant colony life you want to opress on us.
and secondly, the reason half of marriges fail isn't because the idea of marrige, its because today's society tears apart wholesome values. look at TV. sex and porn is running ramped. drugs and voilence are glorified in the eyes of our youth. no wonder kids grow up to beat their wives. when they've been brainwashed by such media
ummm.. right now were disscusing marrige in the world today... thast not really anything to do with homosexuality ... seeing that homosexuals can't get married in most places. and we've covered that so we'll probly be getting back to if joining the milatary after highschool is a good idea.
On TV? In plain view of the FCC? I think not. Look at what a big stink was made over that whole half-time debacle.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->drugs and voilence are glorified in the eyes of our youth. no wonder kids grow up to beat their wives. when they've been brainwashed by such media
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
People we're beating their wives since long before TV was invented. In fact, for a long time it was encouraged to keep them in line that way. The reason the divorce rate is up is that divorce is no longer looked down upon by society (at least, not like it used to be). That doesn't mean that families are any less wholesome then they were before, it just means that they aren't hiding it anymore.
I contend that it should be mandatory for all graduates of high school (or the equivalent thereof) to do a 2 year hitch in the armed forces of their choice, minimum age 18. That's my oppinion, we welcome yours. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, it's worked for the Swiss. In Switzerland, a 2-year service in the military is mandatory, and assault-grade weapon ownership is compulsory. Of course, the Swiss are true isolationists and only have these laws as a preventative measure in the case that a foreign power invades their soil.
As for me, since I am a current member of Americas armed services I'd say that although a required 2-year tenor in the Armed Services would be ideal. However, I know that certain people aren't fit for military service (physical/mental requirements), and to force them to serve would be unfair them, and potentially dangerous to those around them. So, although it's a good idea, it should really remain just an idea (for now).
**EDIT** Stop derailing the topic, people. You wanna talk about homosexual parents and modern marital values? Go create a thread about and talk there.
Mandatory drafts don't make good soldiers. One of the reasons that America has the best fighting force in the world (by a HUGE margin, I may add), is that the force is 100% volunteer only.
Plus, why make the world a more authoritarian place, unless we have to? This sounds suspiciously like communism, where people are assigned jobs based upon their abilities.
Mandatory drafts don't make good soldiers. One of the reasons that America has the best fighting force in the world (by a HUGE margin, I may add), is that the force is 100% volunteer only.
Plus, why make the world a more authoritarian place, unless we have to? This sounds suspiciously like communism, where people are assigned jobs based upon their abilities. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
thats not entirly true. some people join the milatary not because they want to. but because its the only way to pay for colledge. so thats not really a 100% volentary
Mandatory drafts don't make good soldiers. One of the reasons that America has the best fighting force in the world (by a HUGE margin, I may add), is that the force is 100% volunteer only.
Plus, why make the world a more authoritarian place, unless we have to? This sounds suspiciously like communism, where people are assigned jobs based upon their abilities. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
thats not entirly true. some people join the milatary not because they want to. but because its the only way to pay for colledge. so thats not really a 100% volentary <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
People get jobs, not because they want to, but because they want to live comfortably. It's entirely possible to live off of welfare. Sure, you're life would be crappy, but you would still live.
People join the military, not because they want to, but because they want to go to college. It's entirely possible to life fine without a college education. Sure, you won't get a great job, but you'll live ok, and your kids will have a good chance of getting a scholarship if you teach them to value education.
Same thing.
Mandatory drafts don't make good soldiers. One of the reasons that America has the best fighting force in the world (by a HUGE margin, I may add), is that the force is 100% volunteer only.
Plus, why make the world a more authoritarian place, unless we have to? This sounds suspiciously like communism, where people are assigned jobs based upon their abilities. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
thats not entirly true. some people join the milatary not because they want to. but because its the only way to pay for colledge. so thats not really a 100% volentary <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
People get jobs, not because they want to, but because they want to live comfortably. It's entirely possible to live off of welfare. Sure, you're life would be crappy, but you would still live.
People join the military, not because they want to, but because they want to go to college. It's entirely possible to life fine without a college education. Sure, you won't get a great job, but you'll live ok, and your kids will have a good chance of getting a scholarship if you teach them to value education.
Same thing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I guess I see you point there. but some poeple do join the military beacause they WANT to. ya know, like some people just love the idea of it. and I think we should just get those people super well trained and armed, and have a kick butt army that no one could stop
Read: 90%
Mandatory drafts don't make good soldiers. One of the reasons that America has the best fighting force in the world (by a HUGE margin, I may add), is that the force is 100% volunteer only.
Plus, why make the world a more authoritarian place, unless we have to? This sounds suspiciously like communism, where people are assigned jobs based upon their abilities. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
thats not entirly true. some people join the milatary not because they want to. but because its the only way to pay for colledge. so thats not really a 100% volentary <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
People get jobs, not because they want to, but because they want to live comfortably. It's entirely possible to live off of welfare. Sure, you're life would be crappy, but you would still live.
People join the military, not because they want to, but because they want to go to college. It's entirely possible to life fine without a college education. Sure, you won't get a great job, but you'll live ok, and your kids will have a good chance of getting a scholarship if you teach them to value education.
Same thing. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I guess I see you point there. but some poeple do join the military beacause they WANT to. ya know, like some people just love the idea of it. and I think we should just get those people super well trained and armed, and have a kick butt army that no one could stop <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Some people take Jobs because they like them, not just because they want to have internet access. I wanted to prove you wrong succinctly.
Also, if you want to look at Vietnam for an example of how horribly wrong an army can be if it's drafted, then I think you'll be enlightened. We had a considerable advantage over every other military force in the world, just like we do now, but if you look at the military successes (yes, I'm well aware that Vietnam is an incredibly difficult country terrain-wise to invade, especially against a guerilla force that knows the area well) and the way our troops treated the natives and each other, you should see that a draft is a bad idea. The ONLY reason that we will see a draft again is if America actually faces a severe threat to its sovereignty (nothing terrorism or anything outside of our borders could bring, I'm talking about China invading in 2050, or something like that). The public doesn't want a draft, so it would be legislative suicide to instate one. The military doesn't want a draft because the soldiers are unmotivated, so they lack carefulness, patience, and training.
There are some first world countries that have drafts with few problems. Switzerland has a draft, but they don't have any threats to their sovereignty at all, very few non-UN-type military excursions, no post-(like France had in Africa during the late 20th century) or psuedo-(like America does now) Colonial obligations, and (IIRC) an option to go into some civil endeavor for a moderately larger period of time.