wow. I just got off a plane from san diego, and I come home and Look... I'm the most quoted person in here.. dang I rock
I read over some of my fan mail... and basically what your saying is... since I'm the only one here who doesn't believe in evolution I must be wrong...well the way I see it. I'm the only one keeping this topic alive. if I wasn't here everyone in this thread would be convinced evolution is true... and then what would the point of debating it be? you guys should thank me for my views.
anyways. about that bacteria... its crazy how theres new viruses coming out and stuff that is immune to antibotics and what have you... just goes to show ya that evultion is alive and ticking. but I still don't by the ape idea. but thats just me here
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 13 2005, 10:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 13 2005, 10:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> anyways. about that bacteria... its crazy how theres new viruses coming out and stuff that is immune to antibotics and what have you... just goes to show ya that evultion is alive and ticking. but I still don't by the ape idea. but thats just me here <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> THEN WHAT'S IT FREAKING GOING TO TAKE?!
How can you ignore all the evidence and explanation and rationale thought presented?
<!--QuoteBegin-Mantrid+Mar 14 2005, 01:21 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mantrid @ Mar 14 2005, 01:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 13 2005, 10:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 13 2005, 10:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> anyways. about that bacteria... its crazy how theres new viruses coming out and stuff that is immune to antibotics and what have you... just goes to show ya that evultion is alive and ticking. but I still don't by the ape idea. but thats just me here <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> THEN WHAT'S IT FREAKING GOING TO TAKE?!
How can you ignore all the evidence and explanation and rationale thought presented? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> why do some people not believe in god? I mean his pressence is more then clear. lets look at some things
A tree takes decades to grow and mature... and in about 5 minutes can be chopped down.
Human lives take 20 years to grow into adulthood and can be ended in a second with one trigger pull
a city built for centruries can crumble in an hour if an earthquake hits
so lets look... Anything you can build.. .is about 10X easier to destroy. so how is it that anything in this world is still standing and around? what factor is tipping the scale to balance out the equation? I've seen countless miracles in my life (no not angels or the parting of the red sea) but miricals none the less... how can you deny the pressence of supernatural forces? thats my question
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 14 2005, 01:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 14 2005, 01:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> why do some people not believe in god? I mean his pressence is more then clear. lets look at some things <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Lets not, because it is entirely beside the point and specifically disallowed in the thread by the starter.
If you mean to ask: "Whats it going to take for you to not believe in common ancestry?" then the answer is: when I see a good deal of evidence against it, or rather for annother idea. So far, that doesn't look like its going to happen.
How can you not allow religion in a topic like this? I mean... that is like saying.. "Topic about God... NO SCIENCE ALLOWED" I mean there two sides of the same coin man... ya gotta look at it from all angles, which yes includes faithful righteous people like me.
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 14 2005, 01:31 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 14 2005, 01:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> how can you not allow religinion in a topic like this? I mean... thast like saying.. "Topic about God... NO SCIENCE ALLOWED" <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Funny you should say that, because thats exactly what the forum rules say to do. The reason why is that religion and science use two completely different bases for their arguments, so it will never get anywhere.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I mean there two sides of the same coin man... ya gotta look at it from all angles, which yes includes faithfull rightous people like me.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, you don't. You can't argue with a stubborn fool like you because you refuse to believe the evidence layed right in front of your face. Hell, you don't even try, as evidenced by your continued asking of the same damn questions over and over.
Similarly, your arguments will never sway one of us, because you base all of them on the words of a book that specifically contradicts the evidence. Both cannot be believed at the same time (at least, not if you take the book literally).
Here, I've quoted the rule for your benefit: <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->First Addendum:
After too many bad experiences with them, we prohibit 'science vs. religion' debates. This extends to evolutionarism - creationism topics. The past threads dealing with such subjects left a lot of bad blood and showed that both sides are just hit too deeply in their believes to hold a truly productive discussion. From now on, we'd like to ask you to keep your topics on one side of the divide (for example a purely mundane discussion of homosexuality or a religious discussion of the same subject, but not both intermingled), and keep your arguments within such a thread either rational-scientifical or theological.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 13 2005, 10:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 13 2005, 10:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> so lets look... Anything you can build.. .is about 10X easier to destroy. so how is it that anything in this world is still standing and around? what factor is tipping the scale to balance out the equation? I've seen countless miracles in my life (no not angels or the parting of the red sea) but miricals none the less... how can you deny the pressence of supernatural forces? thats my question <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> A tree is cut down because we choose to cut it down. Trees wouldn't randomly cut themselves down without a god. A person is killed because we choose to have them killed. People won't keel over just because there isn't a god.
In fact, the only thing that you could attribute as an act of god would be an earthquake, or you could realize that that is caused by the movement of tectonic plates.
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 13 2005, 10:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 13 2005, 10:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ya gotta look at it from all angles, which yes includes faithfull rightous people like me. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> First of all, I object to your implication that one can only be "rightous" through subscription to faith.
Second, if you want to drag religion into a rational scientific arguement, thats alright with me (although probably not alright with the thread creator, and definetly not alright with the moderators). However, you have not provided a single CONCRETE FACT that tips the balance over to religion rather than science.
<!--QuoteBegin-Mantrid+Mar 14 2005, 01:40 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mantrid @ Mar 14 2005, 01:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 13 2005, 10:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 13 2005, 10:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ya gotta look at it from all angles, which yes includes faithfull rightous people like me. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> First of all, I object to your implication that one can only be "rightous" through subscription to faith.
Second, if you want to drag religion into a rational scientific arguement, thats alright with me (although probably not alright with the thread creator, and definetly not alright with the moderators). However, you have not provided a single CONCRETE FACT that tips the balance over to religion rather than science. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Faith my friend...faith by definition is: believing in what you cannot see, therefore I have no concrete facts to offer you. While everlasting truths and doctrines I can tell you. I can't show you a sign and call down a meteor to tell you that god lives.
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 13 2005, 10:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 13 2005, 10:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Faith my friend...faith by definition is believing in what you can not see, therefore I have no concrete facts to offer you. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You'll have to excuse me when I say this:
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 14 2005, 01:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 14 2005, 01:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Faith my friend...faith by definition is believing in what you can not see, therefore I have no concrete facts to offer you. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> See, this is exactly what I'm getting at and why such discussions are not allowed. Some of us require evidence to be convinced to believe something, while others (like you) will believe certain things <i>in spite of</i> facts to the contrary.
Its not like you can't argue against abiogenesis and common ancestry (or even for sucha rediculous thing as Noah's ark) without using fact based rationale. Several religious forum members have managed it in the past (to argue rationally, not nessesarily to win the argument).
Faith doesn't have to be blind forever. You can receive revelation from god threw prayer and other spiritual means. Its not like People just stab in the dark and hope their right.
Have any of you here ever prayed? With a broken heart and a contrite spirit? I'm guessing not. But maybe I'm wrong
this post has been edited by AvengerX on Mar 14 2005, 01:47 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 14 2005, 01:47 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 14 2005, 01:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> have any of you here ever prayed? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Have you ever, I don't know, thought about anything rationally <i>ever, in your entire life</i>? I'm guessing not...
Please, keep this religious crap out of here or I'll report you.
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 13 2005, 10:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 13 2005, 10:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Faith doesn't have to be blind forever. you can recieve revalation from god threw prayer and other spiritual means. its not like People just stab in the dark and hope their right.
have any of you here ever prayed? with a contrite heart and a broken spirit? I'm guessing not.. but maybe I'm wrong <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, as a matter of fact, I did. I did several times. And I heard another voice, talking to me, soothing me.
Then I realized it was an internal incarnation of my subconcious mind. I suppose you could consider it a moral compass. I don't know if all people have it, but I know I do. Anyway, it was just telling me what I wanted to hear. But once I realized what it was, I was better off. Oddly enough, I think I might be at least partially insane, because it has its own distinct personality, and I'm able to converse with it (internally, of course). It has opinions, it has suggestions, and we both realize we're the same person (that actually stemmed into several conversations about how we should adress one another, since I was using the pronoun "you" for it, even though he is me)." We know our roles, and we know that I'm the one in control of the physical body, and he's never going to get to use it, assuming its even within his power.
I'd rather you didn't refer to millions of people's beliefs as crap. just out of a sign of respect. I don't think Evolution is crap. I think its true. just I don't think your totally on the mark with the whole Common Ancestry bit.
<!--QuoteBegin-Mantrid+Mar 14 2005, 01:51 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mantrid @ Mar 14 2005, 01:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 13 2005, 10:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 13 2005, 10:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Faith doesn't have to be blind forever. you can recieve revalation from god threw prayer and other spiritual means. its not like People just stab in the dark and hope their right.
have any of you here ever prayed? with a contrite heart and a broken spirit? I'm guessing not.. but maybe I'm wrong <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, as a matter of fact, I did. I did several times. And I heard another voice, talking to me, soothing me.
Then I realized it was an internal incarnation of my subconcious mind. I suppose you could consider it a moral compass. I don't know if all people have it, but I know I do. Anyway, it was just telling me what I wanted to hear. But once I realized what it was, I was better off. Oddly enough, I think I might be at least partially insane, because it has its own distinct personality, and I'm able to converse with it (internally, of course). It has opinions, it has suggestions, and we both realize we're the same person (that actually stemmed into several conversations about how we should adress one another, since I was using the pronoun "you" for it, even though he is me)." We know our roles, and we know that I'm the one in control of the physical body, and he's never going to get to use it, assuming its even within his power. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not to drag this further off topic, but seriously, you might want to consider seeing someone about that. I mean, most of us are capable of having internal dialogs, but rarely do they become their own entity.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->'d rather you didn't refer to millions of people's beliefs as crap. just out of a sign of respect.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't show respect for people I don't respect. And I don't repsect you or people who act like you or believe the things you do. Its that simple. Its not like there aren't religious forum members I respect, You just aren't one of them.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't think Evolution is crap. I think its true. just I don't think your totally on the mark with the whole Common Ancestry bit.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yet your only supporting argument relies on your religious views being right in spite of the presented evidence. We aren't asking for much, just come up with some arguments that don't rely on religion. Its not that hard, the religious discussion forum regulars manage it all the time.
<!--QuoteBegin-Mantrid+Mar 14 2005, 01:51 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mantrid @ Mar 14 2005, 01:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 13 2005, 10:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 13 2005, 10:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Faith doesn't have to be blind forever. you can recieve revalation from god threw prayer and other spiritual means. its not like People just stab in the dark and hope their right.
have any of you here ever prayed? with a contrite heart and a broken spirit? I'm guessing not.. but maybe I'm wrong <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, as a matter of fact, I did. I did several times. And I heard another voice, talking to me, soothing me.
Then I realized it was an internal incarnation of my subconcious mind. I suppose you could consider it a moral compass. I don't know if all people have it, but I know I do. Anyway, it was just telling me what I wanted to hear. But once I realized what it was, I was better off. Oddly enough, I think I might be at least partially insane, because it has its own distinct personality, and I'm able to converse with it (internally, of course). It has opinions, it has suggestions, and we both realize we're the same person (that actually stemmed into several conversations about how we should adress one another, since I was using the pronoun "you" for it, even though he is me)." We know our roles, and we know that I'm the one in control of the physical body, and he's never going to get to use it, assuming its even within his power. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> have you ever played Xenogears? that reminds me of how Fie Suppresses all his bad memories into a part of his brain until it forms its own entity and its called ID. its based of the ID Ego super-ego theory and its really quite interesting.. good game I highly recomend it
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 13 2005, 10:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 13 2005, 10:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'd rather you didn't refer to millions of people's beliefs as crap. just out of a sign of respect. I don't think Evolution is crap. I think its true. just I don't think your totally on the mark with the whole Common Ancestry bit. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ...
So, evolution is true, except that it isn't?
Edit: And, yeah, I already know about the whole Id-Ego-Superego continuum, although I read it in something by Freud rather than from a game.
I happened to have had a ton of questions on the subject that didn't deal with religion thank you very much. its on the first page (if you can remember that far back) and a lot of them were adressed but I still don't know if its really plausable. I mean I've seen evidence supporting it and I just haven't seen anything powerful enough to shake my convictions and beliefs.
Here's the funny thing about respect. when you show someone respect. it shows more about your own charecter then the person your showing respect for. its kinda a deep concept so I'm not sure if you'll understand it....
yeah well I've read about it as well (I'm not sure from where exactly) but I was just making an allagory to the game that refrenced it as well. its a good game
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 14 2005, 01:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 14 2005, 01:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I happened to have had a ton of questions on the subject that didn't deal with religion thank you very much. its on the first page (if you can remember that far back) and a lot of them were adressed but I still don't know if its really plausable. I mean I've seen evidence supporting it and I just haven't seen anything powerful enough to shake my convictions and beliefs.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If theres something you still don't understand, or need clarified, then by all means ask Apos, I'm sure he'll answer. Just don't go spouting crap about faith and God and belief and all that crap.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Here's the funny thing about respect. when you show someone respect. it shows more about your own charecter then the person your showing respect for. its kinda a deep concept so I'm not sure if you'll understand it.... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'll be the first to admit that I have little character. Maybe I'm just sick of all the flipping around people do trying to be PC or showing respect to people who don't deserve it, but I just aint gonna do that anymore.
BTW, remember this?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->hey clam boy. if I wasn't feeling so tolerant today I might go off on your sorry heretic face. but I'm not going to friggen pagan Petey over here<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Talk to me about respect when you grow up.
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 13 2005, 10:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 13 2005, 10:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Here's the funny thing about respect. when you show someone respect. it shows more about your own charecter then the person your showing respect for. its kinda a deep concept so I'm not sure if you'll understand it.... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Does anyone else notice the almost-painful irony here?
I never implied that I had great charecter of respect. did I? don't put words in my mouth skulkboy.
and I just noticed something, you joined the forums 1 day before Charles darwins birthday (Febuary 12) which is allso my birthday, in case you were wondering
<!--QuoteBegin-Mantrid+Mar 14 2005, 02:05 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mantrid @ Mar 14 2005, 02:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 13 2005, 11:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 13 2005, 11:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I never implied that I had great charecter of respect. did I? don't put words in my mouth skulkboy.
and I just noticed something, you joined the forums 1 day before Charles darwins birthday (Febuary 12) which is allso my birthday, in case you were wondering <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Twins seperated at birth? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> possibly... course if my mom was in a 100 years of labor.. I really feel sorry for her.
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 14 2005, 02:04 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 14 2005, 02:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I never implied that I had great charecter of respect. did I? don't put words in my mouth skulkboy. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> For someone who is supposedly so religious you seem oddly comfortable with that.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> and I just noticed something, you joined the forums 1 day before Charles darwins birthday (Febuary 12) which is allso my birthday, in case you were wondering<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ....No I wasn't wondering. I don't know about you, but numerology or whatever hocus pocus makes you think that your birthday or the day I joined the forum matters at all just don't do anything for me.
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 14 2005, 01:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 14 2005, 01:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I happened to have had a ton of questions on the subject that didn't deal with religion thank you very much. its on the first page (if you can remember that far back) and a lot of them were adressed but I still don't know if its really plausable. I mean I've seen evidence supporting it and I just haven't seen anything powerful enough to shake my convictions and beliefs. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, Mantrid, I think this is more ironic.
How about the fact that every single biologist doing any respectable work in the field of biology accepts evolution? How about the fact that in the 100+ years since the discovery of evolution, no serious contrary theory has emerged?
<!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Mar 14 2005, 02:07 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Mar 14 2005, 02:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 14 2005, 01:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 14 2005, 01:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I happened to have had a ton of questions on the subject that didn't deal with religion thank you very much. its on the first page (if you can remember that far back) and a lot of them were adressed but I still don't know if its really plausable. I mean I've seen evidence supporting it and I just haven't seen anything powerful enough to shake my convictions and beliefs. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, Mantrid, I think this is more ironic.
How about the fact that every single biologist doing any respectable work in the field of biology accepts evolution? How about the fact that in the 100+ years since the discovery of evolution, no serious contrary theory has emerged?
Also, IBTL. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Avenger is so predictable, I'm going to post for him on this one:
<!--QuoteBegin-SkulkBait's impression of AvengerX+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SkulkBait's impression of AvengerX)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't debate that evolution is true, I just have problems with the idea of common ancestry.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm afraid you're going to have use different terms to get through to him.
Lets look at things that are for sure... things like Gravity that we know what the'll do every time. thats proven fact. no if we have two monkeys make a baby... I bet if I breed a 1000s monkeys they'd all come out baby monkeys.... and no humans... too bad huh?
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 14 2005, 02:09 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 14 2005, 02:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm working on my charecter. I mean after all unlike you I am only 17... so I have a little more slack and excuss then you do. seeing how your 22? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> This isn't an excuse for anyone. Your actions are what people judge you on, not what your age is, or what excuses you use to justify your actions.
Comments
I read over some of my fan mail... and basically what your saying is... since I'm the only one here who doesn't believe in evolution I must be wrong...well the way I see it. I'm the only one keeping this topic alive. if I wasn't here everyone in this thread would be convinced evolution is true... and then what would the point of debating it be? you guys should thank me for my views.
anyways. about that bacteria... its crazy how theres new viruses coming out and stuff that is immune to antibotics and what have you... just goes to show ya that evultion is alive and ticking. but I still don't by the ape idea. but thats just me here
THEN WHAT'S IT FREAKING GOING TO TAKE?!
How can you ignore all the evidence and explanation and rationale thought presented?
THEN WHAT'S IT FREAKING GOING TO TAKE?!
How can you ignore all the evidence and explanation and rationale thought presented? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
why do some people not believe in god? I mean his pressence is more then clear. lets look at some things
A tree takes decades to grow and mature... and in about 5 minutes can be chopped down.
Human lives take 20 years to grow into adulthood and can be ended in a second with one trigger pull
a city built for centruries can crumble in an hour if an earthquake hits
so lets look... Anything you can build.. .is about 10X easier to destroy. so how is it that anything in this world is still standing and around? what factor is tipping the scale to balance out the equation? I've seen countless miracles in my life (no not angels or the parting of the red sea) but miricals none the less... how can you deny the pressence of supernatural forces? thats my question
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lets not, because it is entirely beside the point and specifically disallowed in the thread by the starter.
If you mean to ask: "Whats it going to take for you to not believe in common ancestry?" then the answer is: when I see a good deal of evidence against it, or rather for annother idea. So far, that doesn't look like its going to happen.
Funny you should say that, because thats exactly what the forum rules say to do. The reason why is that religion and science use two completely different bases for their arguments, so it will never get anywhere.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I mean there two sides of the same coin man... ya gotta look at it from all angles, which yes includes faithfull rightous people like me.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, you don't. You can't argue with a stubborn fool like you because you refuse to believe the evidence layed right in front of your face. Hell, you don't even try, as evidenced by your continued asking of the same damn questions over and over.
Similarly, your arguments will never sway one of us, because you base all of them on the words of a book that specifically contradicts the evidence. Both cannot be believed at the same time (at least, not if you take the book literally).
Here, I've quoted the rule for your benefit:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->First Addendum:
After too many bad experiences with them, we prohibit 'science vs. religion' debates. This extends to evolutionarism - creationism topics. The past threads dealing with such subjects left a lot of bad blood and showed that both sides are just hit too deeply in their believes to hold a truly productive discussion. From now on, we'd like to ask you to keep your topics on one side of the divide (for example a purely mundane discussion of homosexuality or a religious discussion of the same subject, but not both intermingled), and keep your arguments within such a thread either rational-scientifical or theological.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A tree is cut down because we choose to cut it down. Trees wouldn't randomly cut themselves down without a god. A person is killed because we choose to have them killed. People won't keel over just because there isn't a god.
In fact, the only thing that you could attribute as an act of god would be an earthquake, or you could realize that that is caused by the movement of tectonic plates.
First of all, I object to your implication that one can only be "rightous" through subscription to faith.
Second, if you want to drag religion into a rational scientific arguement, thats alright with me (although probably not alright with the thread creator, and definetly not alright with the moderators). However, you have not provided a single CONCRETE FACT that tips the balance over to religion rather than science.
First of all, I object to your implication that one can only be "rightous" through subscription to faith.
Second, if you want to drag religion into a rational scientific arguement, thats alright with me (although probably not alright with the thread creator, and definetly not alright with the moderators). However, you have not provided a single CONCRETE FACT that tips the balance over to religion rather than science. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Faith my friend...faith by definition is: believing in what you cannot see, therefore I have no concrete facts to offer you. While everlasting truths and doctrines I can tell you. I can't show you a sign and call down a meteor to tell you that god lives.
You'll have to excuse me when I say this:
Gee, isn't that convienant?
See, this is exactly what I'm getting at and why such discussions are not allowed. Some of us require evidence to be convinced to believe something, while others (like you) will believe certain things <i>in spite of</i> facts to the contrary.
Its not like you can't argue against abiogenesis and common ancestry (or even for sucha rediculous thing as Noah's ark) without using fact based rationale. Several religious forum members have managed it in the past (to argue rationally, not nessesarily to win the argument).
Have any of you here ever prayed? With a broken heart and a contrite spirit? I'm guessing not. But maybe I'm wrong
this post has been edited by AvengerX on Mar 14 2005, 01:47 AM
Have you ever, I don't know, thought about anything rationally <i>ever, in your entire life</i>? I'm guessing not...
Please, keep this religious crap out of here or I'll report you.
have any of you here ever prayed? with a contrite heart and a broken spirit? I'm guessing not.. but maybe I'm wrong <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, as a matter of fact, I did. I did several times. And I heard another voice, talking to me, soothing me.
Then I realized it was an internal incarnation of my subconcious mind. I suppose you could consider it a moral compass. I don't know if all people have it, but I know I do. Anyway, it was just telling me what I wanted to hear. But once I realized what it was, I was better off. Oddly enough, I think I might be at least partially insane, because it has its own distinct personality, and I'm able to converse with it (internally, of course). It has opinions, it has suggestions, and we both realize we're the same person (that actually stemmed into several conversations about how we should adress one another, since I was using the pronoun "you" for it, even though he is me)." We know our roles, and we know that I'm the one in control of the physical body, and he's never going to get to use it, assuming its even within his power.
have any of you here ever prayed? with a contrite heart and a broken spirit? I'm guessing not.. but maybe I'm wrong <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, as a matter of fact, I did. I did several times. And I heard another voice, talking to me, soothing me.
Then I realized it was an internal incarnation of my subconcious mind. I suppose you could consider it a moral compass. I don't know if all people have it, but I know I do. Anyway, it was just telling me what I wanted to hear. But once I realized what it was, I was better off. Oddly enough, I think I might be at least partially insane, because it has its own distinct personality, and I'm able to converse with it (internally, of course). It has opinions, it has suggestions, and we both realize we're the same person (that actually stemmed into several conversations about how we should adress one another, since I was using the pronoun "you" for it, even though he is me)." We know our roles, and we know that I'm the one in control of the physical body, and he's never going to get to use it, assuming its even within his power. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not to drag this further off topic, but seriously, you might want to consider seeing someone about that. I mean, most of us are capable of having internal dialogs, but rarely do they become their own entity.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->'d rather you didn't refer to millions of people's beliefs as crap. just out of a sign of respect.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't show respect for people I don't respect. And I don't repsect you or people who act like you or believe the things you do. Its that simple. Its not like there aren't religious forum members I respect, You just aren't one of them.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't think Evolution is crap. I think its true. just I don't think your totally on the mark with the whole Common Ancestry bit.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yet your only supporting argument relies on your religious views being right in spite of the presented evidence. We aren't asking for much, just come up with some arguments that don't rely on religion. Its not that hard, the religious discussion forum regulars manage it all the time.
have any of you here ever prayed? with a contrite heart and a broken spirit? I'm guessing not.. but maybe I'm wrong <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, as a matter of fact, I did. I did several times. And I heard another voice, talking to me, soothing me.
Then I realized it was an internal incarnation of my subconcious mind. I suppose you could consider it a moral compass. I don't know if all people have it, but I know I do. Anyway, it was just telling me what I wanted to hear. But once I realized what it was, I was better off. Oddly enough, I think I might be at least partially insane, because it has its own distinct personality, and I'm able to converse with it (internally, of course). It has opinions, it has suggestions, and we both realize we're the same person (that actually stemmed into several conversations about how we should adress one another, since I was using the pronoun "you" for it, even though he is me)." We know our roles, and we know that I'm the one in control of the physical body, and he's never going to get to use it, assuming its even within his power. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
have you ever played Xenogears? that reminds me of how Fie Suppresses all his bad memories into a part of his brain until it forms its own entity and its called ID. its based of the ID Ego super-ego theory and its really quite interesting.. good game I highly recomend it
...
So, evolution is true, except that it isn't?
Edit: And, yeah, I already know about the whole Id-Ego-Superego continuum, although I read it in something by Freud rather than from a game.
Here's the funny thing about respect. when you show someone respect. it shows more about your own charecter then the person your showing respect for. its kinda a deep concept so I'm not sure if you'll understand it....
yeah well I've read about it as well (I'm not sure from where exactly) but I was just making an allagory to the game that refrenced it as well. its a good game
If theres something you still don't understand, or need clarified, then by all means ask Apos, I'm sure he'll answer. Just don't go spouting crap about faith and God and belief and all that crap.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Here's the funny thing about respect. when you show someone respect. it shows more about your own charecter then the person your showing respect for. its kinda a deep concept so I'm not sure if you'll understand it.... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll be the first to admit that I have little character. Maybe I'm just sick of all the flipping around people do trying to be PC or showing respect to people who don't deserve it, but I just aint gonna do that anymore.
BTW, remember this?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->hey clam boy. if I wasn't feeling so tolerant today I might go off on your sorry heretic face. but I'm not going to friggen pagan Petey over here<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Talk to me about respect when you grow up.
Does anyone else notice the almost-painful irony here?
and I just noticed something, you joined the forums 1 day before Charles darwins birthday (Febuary 12) which is allso my birthday, in case you were wondering
and I just noticed something, you joined the forums 1 day before Charles darwins birthday (Febuary 12) which is allso my birthday, in case you were wondering <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Twins seperated at birth? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
possibly... course if my mom was in a 100 years of labor.. I really feel sorry for her.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
For someone who is supposedly so religious you seem oddly comfortable with that.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
and I just noticed something, you joined the forums 1 day before Charles darwins birthday (Febuary 12) which is allso my birthday, in case you were wondering<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
....No I wasn't wondering. I don't know about you, but numerology or whatever hocus pocus makes you think that your birthday or the day I joined the forum matters at all just don't do anything for me.
Actually, Mantrid, I think this is more ironic.
How about the fact that every single biologist doing any respectable work in the field of biology accepts evolution? How about the fact that in the 100+ years since the discovery of evolution, no serious contrary theory has emerged?
Also, IBTL.
Actually, Mantrid, I think this is more ironic.
How about the fact that every single biologist doing any respectable work in the field of biology accepts evolution? How about the fact that in the 100+ years since the discovery of evolution, no serious contrary theory has emerged?
Also, IBTL. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Avenger is so predictable, I'm going to post for him on this one:
<!--QuoteBegin-SkulkBait's impression of AvengerX+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SkulkBait's impression of AvengerX)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't debate that evolution is true, I just have problems with the idea of common ancestry.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm afraid you're going to have use different terms to get through to him.
This isn't an excuse for anyone. Your actions are what people judge you on, not what your age is, or what excuses you use to justify your actions.