<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 13 2005, 11:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 13 2005, 11:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm working on my charecter. I mean after all unlike you I am only 17... so I have a little more slack and excuss then you do. seeing how your 22? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You're seventeen? Huh. I didn't think you were that old. Just for the sake of curiousity, where do you live, AvengerX?
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 14 2005, 02:12 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 14 2005, 02:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Lets look at things that are for sure... things like Gravity that we know what the'll do every time. thats proven fact. no if we have two monkeys make a baby... I bet if I breed a 1000s monkeys they'd all come out baby monkeys.... and no humans... too bad huh? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You do know that the theory of evolution has the exact same status as the theory of gravity does, right?
You display a flawed understanding of evolution if you think that you can breed monkeys from humans or that humans were descended from chimpanzees or any other modern ape.
Yeah, gravity still has flaws. Like that we don't actually know what causes it (the current theory is that mass curves space-time). It also doesn't work in every way, as (as far as I know) I'm pretty sure it doesn't apply on the quantum level.
Then again, the quantum level is a pretty weird place...
<!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Mar 14 2005, 02:13 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Mar 14 2005, 02:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 14 2005, 02:09 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 14 2005, 02:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm working on my charecter. I mean after all unlike you I am only 17... so I have a little more slack and excuss then you do. seeing how your 22? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> This isn't an excuse for anyone. Your actions are what people judge you on, not what your age is, or what excuses you use to justify your actions. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm not ashamed of any of my actions thank you very much. why should I be? why should I have to feel bad about believing in what I do. so what guys like you are gonna try to tear me down. well guess what its not gonna work. I stand up for what I believe in and just because people like you think people like me are crazy, I don't care. I think I have great charecter for my age, considering you guys believe in nothing but what others tell you. you've just jumped on this evolution band wagon haven't ya. ya know what I've searched for knowledge and I've found it. and I know whats true and just because you guys don't understand I'm not going to change my views.
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 14 2005, 02:16 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 14 2005, 02:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Mar 14 2005, 02:13 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Mar 14 2005, 02:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 14 2005, 02:09 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 14 2005, 02:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm working on my charecter. I mean after all unlike you I am only 17... so I have a little more slack and excuss then you do. seeing how your 22? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> This isn't an excuse for anyone. Your actions are what people judge you on, not what your age is, or what excuses you use to justify your actions. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm not ashamed of any of my actions thank you very much. why should I be? why should I have to feel bad about believing in what I do. so what guys like you are gonna try to tear me down. well guess what its not gonna work. I stand up for what I believe in and just because people like you think people like me are crazy, I don't care. I think I have great charecter for my age, considering you guys believe in nothing but what others tell you. you've just jumped on this evolution band wagon haven't ya. ya know what I've searched for knowledge and I've found it. and I know whats true and just because you guys don't understand I'm not going to change my views. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You're being attacked because you come in here and troll. You insult people, refuse to listen to the facts, and spout unsupported dogmatic arguments. Our problem isn't with your Christian beliefs, but with the fact that you won't listen to anyone else and your beliefs in other categories (evolution) are just as unwavering as your belief in Christianity. You can't discuss if you can't listen. Plus, your spelling/grammar makes your statements hard to read, which often puts our rage about you over the top.
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 13 2005, 11:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 13 2005, 11:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think I have great charecter for my age, considering you guys believe in nothing but what others tell you. you've just jumped on this evolution band wagon haven't ya. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> How are you different? <i>You've</i> just jumped on the <i>religion</i> bandwagon.
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 14 2005, 02:12 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 14 2005, 02:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Lets look at things that are for sure... things like Gravity that we know what the'll do every time. thats proven fact.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Funny you should say that, since Newtonian gravity is on the verge of being disproved. We have discovered (thanks to pioneer and voyager) that gravity doesn't seem to work the same way at very long distances. So be carefull what you call "proven fact". Science has all sorts of terms to describe ideas of different provability, for instance "theory" is an idea that has withstood all the tests thrown at it so far and hasn't been disproven, but can't be explicitly proven (IIRC, Apos will correct me I'm sure).
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->no if we have two monkeys make a baby... I bet if I breed a 1000s monkeys they'd all come out baby monkeys.... and no humans... too bad huh?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Of course they would. A huge change like things-that-are-definatly-monkeys becoming things-that-aren't-nessesarily-monkeys takes many, many generations and selection pressures that will incline them to become sufficiently non-mokey like. However, it should be noted that visible changes can be seen in very few generations with the right selection pressures, for instance an experement was conducted on a mink farm (I dont like mink farms BTW) where only the most "tame" minks were allowed to breed. In only a few generations, not only did they have really tame minks, but the minks also started to take on color patterns in their coat that didn't occur in "normal" minks. So if you bred monkeys for long enough, with certain selection pressures, then it is likely you'd see a fairly noticable change fairly quickly.
Avenger, it isn't your religion that you should be ashamed of, its the statements you make (like the last one I quoted in reference to your character) that you should be ashamed of, because they are so contrary to what your religion supposedly preaches.
<!--QuoteBegin-SkulkBait+Mar 14 2005, 02:21 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SkulkBait @ Mar 14 2005, 02:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Of course they would. A huge change like things-that-are-definatly-monkeys becoming things-that-aren't-nessesarily-monkeys takes many, many generations and selection pressures that will incline them to become sufficiently non-mokey like. However, it should be noted that visible changes can be seen in very few generations with the right selection pressures, for instance an experement was conducted on a mink farm (I dont like mink farms BTW) where only the most "tame" minks were allowed to breed. In only a few generations, not only did they have really tame minks, but the minks also started to take on color patterns in their coat that didn't occur in "normal" minks. So if you bred monkeys for long enough, with certain selection pressures, then it is likely you'd see a fairly noticable change fairly quickly. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It's foxes actually, but this is an interesting point. They bred wild foxes specifically to tame them so they could harvest their coats easier. What happened was that they greatly changed their appearance. Their coats become less shiny and sleek, their ears became floppy, etc. An analogy that would describe this effect would be dogs:wolves::tame foxes:wild foxes. The change in appearance was that drastic.
<!--QuoteBegin-Mantrid+Mar 14 2005, 02:20 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mantrid @ Mar 14 2005, 02:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 13 2005, 11:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 13 2005, 11:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think I have great charecter for my age, considering you guys believe in nothing but what others tell you. you've just jumped on this evolution band wagon haven't ya. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> How are you different? <i>You've</i> just jumped on the <i>religion</i> bandwagon. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> at least my band wagon is going to a nice place.
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 14 2005, 02:24 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 14 2005, 02:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Mantrid+Mar 14 2005, 02:20 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mantrid @ Mar 14 2005, 02:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 13 2005, 11:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 13 2005, 11:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think I have great charecter for my age, considering you guys believe in nothing but what others tell you. you've just jumped on this evolution band wagon haven't ya. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> How are you different? <i>You've</i> just jumped on the <i>religion</i> bandwagon. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> at least my band wagon is going to a nice place. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No its not, its going nowhere, just like ours. The difference is everyone in your bandwagon <i>thinks</i> they are going somewhere nice. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
But seriously, can we keep the religion out of this now, please!?
I wanna see some fossils, someone find me one of those "fossil records" I wanna look how fossils evolve over time. I really wanna see a good visual maybe that'll help me. so if someone finds one of those let me know
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->if by refuse to listen to the facts you mean "read them , think about them, then chose not to believe them" then I guess so.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> We attacked your points about super long lived people, infertility, and carbon dating, but you didn't respond with anything other than the same dogmatic insistence that macroevolution is wrong that you had before this discussion. I don't think you've made one valid point about evolution that you have successfully tried to defend. Every time we demolish your arguments, you make more of them, we take those down, you say that you just don't believe in macroevolution, but you won't give another reason why. You can't admit that you're wrong about this issue, for some reason.
<!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Mar 14 2005, 02:28 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Mar 14 2005, 02:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->if by refuse to listen to the facts you mean "read them , think about them, then chose not to believe them" then I guess so.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> We attacked your points about super long lived people, infertility, and carbon dating, but you didn't respond with anything other than the same dogmatic insistence that macroevolution is wrong that you had before this discussion. I don't think you've made one valid point about evolution that you have successfully tried to defend. Every time we demolish your arguments, you make more of them, we take those down, you say that you just don't believe in macroevolution, but you won't give another reason why. You can't admit that you're wrong about this issue, for some reason. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Because you refuses to listen to Doctorines and Truths in the scriptures.
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 14 2005, 02:28 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 14 2005, 02:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I wanna see some fossils, someone find me one of those "fossil records" I wanna look how fossils evolve over time. I really wanna see a good visual maybe that'll help me. so if someone finds one of those let me know <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <a href='http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/specimen.html' target='_blank'>http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/specimen.html</a> Here are a list of images with descriptions and species names of human ancestors. <a href='http://www.handprint.com/LS/ANC/evol.html' target='_blank'>http://www.handprint.com/LS/ANC/evol.html</a> Here is a chart that shows which species humans are descended from and in which order.
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 14 2005, 02:30 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 14 2005, 02:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Mar 14 2005, 02:28 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Mar 14 2005, 02:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->if by refuse to listen to the facts you mean "read them , think about them, then chose not to believe them" then I guess so.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> We attacked your points about super long lived people, infertility, and carbon dating, but you didn't respond with anything other than the same dogmatic insistence that macroevolution is wrong that you had before this discussion. I don't think you've made one valid point about evolution that you have successfully tried to defend. Every time we demolish your arguments, you make more of them, we take those down, you say that you just don't believe in macroevolution, but you won't give another reason why. You can't admit that you're wrong about this issue, for some reason. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Because you refuses to listen to Doctorines and Truths in the scriptures. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Do you have any corroborating evidence supporting your scripture? Records from Romans talking about Jesus resurrecting or from Egyptians talking about the 10 plagues or something like that would be enlightening. The only evidence that I've seen has been created by people who follow the particular religion that their evidence pertains to. The only accounts of Jesus' ressurrection are in Judeo-Christian books.
Frankly, I don't think that 2000 year old religious texts are good to use as supporting evidence in justifying your disbelief in evolution.
<!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Mar 14 2005, 02:32 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Mar 14 2005, 02:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 14 2005, 02:28 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 14 2005, 02:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I wanna see some fossils, someone find me one of those "fossil records" I wanna look how fossils evolve over time. I really wanna see a good visual maybe that'll help me. so if someone finds one of those let me know <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <a href='http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/specimen.html' target='_blank'>http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/specimen.html</a> Here are a list of images with descriptions and species names of human ancestors. <a href='http://www.handprint.com/LS/ANC/evol.html' target='_blank'>http://www.handprint.com/LS/ANC/evol.html</a> Here is a chart that shows which species humans are descended from and in which order. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> well all those heads are human heads... so how does that prove we came from amebas? I wanna see a fish... then a fish with legs... then a fish walking on two legs... then a fish losing its tell walking on two legs... then I wanna see my grandpa.... that would prove it to me pretty well
yes of course theres small varitions like head size and bone strucure. that shows that micro evolution is true... but what about marco evolution? I'm still not diggin it
<!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Mar 14 2005, 02:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Mar 14 2005, 02:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 14 2005, 02:30 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 14 2005, 02:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Mar 14 2005, 02:28 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Mar 14 2005, 02:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->if by refuse to listen to the facts you mean "read them , think about them, then chose not to believe them" then I guess so.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> We attacked your points about super long lived people, infertility, and carbon dating, but you didn't respond with anything other than the same dogmatic insistence that macroevolution is wrong that you had before this discussion. I don't think you've made one valid point about evolution that you have successfully tried to defend. Every time we demolish your arguments, you make more of them, we take those down, you say that you just don't believe in macroevolution, but you won't give another reason why. You can't admit that you're wrong about this issue, for some reason. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Because you refuses to listen to Doctorines and Truths in the scriptures. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Do you have any corroborating evidence supporting your scripture? Records from Romans talking about Jesus resurrecting or from Egyptians talking about the 10 plagues or something like that would be enlightening. The only evidence that I've seen has been created by people who follow the particular religion that their evidence pertains to. The only accounts of Jesus' ressurrection are in Judeo-Christian books.
here's something <a href='http://www.beyondthisplanet.org/bible/No_mistakes/accurate_history_intro.htm' target='_blank'>Here</a> Frankly, I don't think that 2000 year old religious texts are good to use as supporting evidence in justifying your disbelief in evolution. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> there's historical evidence that supports the bible. lemme find some real quick, I gotat pull my resources
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 14 2005, 02:37 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 14 2005, 02:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> there's historical evidence that supports the bible. lemme find some real quick, I gotat pull my resources <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> STOP DERAILING THE THREAD WITH RELIGIOUS CRAP! ALL OF YOU! If you want to debate the historical evidence support whatever, create a new thread!
<!--QuoteBegin-SkulkBait+Mar 14 2005, 02:39 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SkulkBait @ Mar 14 2005, 02:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 14 2005, 02:37 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 14 2005, 02:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> there's historical evidence that supports the bible. lemme find some real quick, I gotat pull my resources <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> STOP DERAILING THE THREAD WITH RELIGIOUS CRAP! ALL OF YOU! If you want to debate the historical evidence support whatever, create a new thread! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> if your right.... which your sure you are... whats the harm in exploring other false options?
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 14 2005, 02:40 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 14 2005, 02:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-SkulkBait+Mar 14 2005, 02:39 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SkulkBait @ Mar 14 2005, 02:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 14 2005, 02:37 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 14 2005, 02:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> there's historical evidence that supports the bible. lemme find some real quick, I gotat pull my resources <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> STOP DERAILING THE THREAD WITH RELIGIOUS CRAP! ALL OF YOU! If you want to debate the historical evidence support whatever, create a new thread! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> if your right.... which your sure you are... whats the harm in exploring other false options? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Its entirely off topic! Seriously, that line of argument will have absolutely nothing to do with abiogenesis, evolution, common ancestry, or anything that this thread was designed to deal with, so it needs to be in annother thread!
<!--QuoteBegin-SkulkBait+Mar 14 2005, 02:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SkulkBait @ Mar 14 2005, 02:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 14 2005, 02:40 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 14 2005, 02:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-SkulkBait+Mar 14 2005, 02:39 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SkulkBait @ Mar 14 2005, 02:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 14 2005, 02:37 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 14 2005, 02:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> there's historical evidence that supports the bible. lemme find some real quick, I gotat pull my resources <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> STOP DERAILING THE THREAD WITH RELIGIOUS CRAP! ALL OF YOU! If you want to debate the historical evidence support whatever, create a new thread! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> if your right.... which your sure you are... whats the harm in exploring other false options? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Its entirely off topic! Seriously, that line of argument will have absolutely nothing to do with abiogenesis, evolution, common ancestry, or anything that this thread was designed to deal with, so it needs to be in annother thread! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> if the bible is historically accurate... then the bible is true... then that means adam was made from dust and Eve came from his rib (even tho both those are symbols) and that would prove evolution is false... how can you say it doesn't pertain to this?
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 14 2005, 02:44 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 14 2005, 02:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> if the bible is historically accurate... then the bible is true... then that means adam was made from dust and Eve came from his rib (even tho both those are symbols) and that would prove evolution is false... how can you say it doesn't pertain to this? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, you're mistaken. Even if you can prove that parts of it are true, only those parts will be true, it won't automatically make the origin story true. If you want to try and prove the truth of the origin story independant of the rest of scripture, then you're welcome to it (you will be unsuccessfull, I mean, if it were that easy to prove then it would have been done already).
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 14 2005, 02:36 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 14 2005, 02:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Mar 14 2005, 02:32 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Mar 14 2005, 02:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 14 2005, 02:28 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 14 2005, 02:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I wanna see some fossils, someone find me one of those "fossil records" I wanna look how fossils evolve over time. I really wanna see a good visual maybe that'll help me. so if someone finds one of those let me know <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <a href='http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/specimen.html' target='_blank'>http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/specimen.html</a> Here are a list of images with descriptions and species names of human ancestors. <a href='http://www.handprint.com/LS/ANC/evol.html' target='_blank'>http://www.handprint.com/LS/ANC/evol.html</a> Here is a chart that shows which species humans are descended from and in which order. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> well all those heads are human heads... so how does that prove we came from amebas? I wanna see a fish... then a fish with legs... then a fish walking on two legs... then a fish losing its tell walking on two legs... then I wanna see my grandpa.... that would prove it to me pretty well
yes of course theres small varitions like head size and bone strucure. that shows that micro evolution is true... but what about marco evolution? I'm still not diggin it <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> This <b>is</b> macroevolution. This is evolution from one species to another. You want to see a fish with legs? Look at a salamander. You want to see a fish, then a fish with legs, then a fish losing its tail and walking on legs? Look at a tadpole turning into a frog. I'm sure you've got a picture of your grandpa somewhere around that you can look at if you want.
Look at this: <a href='http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/R/Romanes.jpg' target='_blank'>http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/...s/R/Romanes.jpg</a> This is an image of the fetuses of many different vertebrates. Notice how alike they are? This is an example of evolution. These shared characteristics are so specific that it is highly improbably that they could have come from anything other than shared ancestry.
<!--QuoteBegin-SkulkBait+Mar 14 2005, 02:46 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SkulkBait @ Mar 14 2005, 02:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 14 2005, 02:44 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 14 2005, 02:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> if the bible is historically accurate... then the bible is true... then that means adam was made from dust and Eve came from his rib (even tho both those are symbols) and that would prove evolution is false... how can you say it doesn't pertain to this? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, you're mistaken. Even if you can prove that parts of it are true, only those parts will be true, it won't automatically make the origin story true. If you want to try and prove the truth of the origin story independant of the rest of scripture, then you're welcome to it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ok then same goes for evolution... Mircro evolution is true. but common ancestry is still up in the air as far as I'm concerened.
and if god is true then thats all that really matters then isn't it
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 14 2005, 02:37 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 14 2005, 02:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Mar 14 2005, 02:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Mar 14 2005, 02:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 14 2005, 02:30 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 14 2005, 02:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Mar 14 2005, 02:28 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Mar 14 2005, 02:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->if by refuse to listen to the facts you mean "read them , think about them, then chose not to believe them" then I guess so.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> We attacked your points about super long lived people, infertility, and carbon dating, but you didn't respond with anything other than the same dogmatic insistence that macroevolution is wrong that you had before this discussion. I don't think you've made one valid point about evolution that you have successfully tried to defend. Every time we demolish your arguments, you make more of them, we take those down, you say that you just don't believe in macroevolution, but you won't give another reason why. You can't admit that you're wrong about this issue, for some reason. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Because you refuses to listen to Doctorines and Truths in the scriptures. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Do you have any corroborating evidence supporting your scripture? Records from Romans talking about Jesus resurrecting or from Egyptians talking about the 10 plagues or something like that would be enlightening. The only evidence that I've seen has been created by people who follow the particular religion that their evidence pertains to. The only accounts of Jesus' ressurrection are in Judeo-Christian books.
here's something <a href='http://www.beyondthisplanet.org/bible/No_mistakes/accurate_history_intro.htm' target='_blank'>Here</a> Frankly, I don't think that 2000 year old religious texts are good to use as supporting evidence in justifying your disbelief in evolution. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> there's historical evidence that supports the bible. lemme find some real quick, I gotat pull my resources <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> When you find these sources, AvengerX, make a new thread. We can debate historical corroboration for religious books in another thread, so we can return to evolution here.
<!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Mar 14 2005, 02:46 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Mar 14 2005, 02:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 14 2005, 02:36 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 14 2005, 02:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Mar 14 2005, 02:32 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Mar 14 2005, 02:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 14 2005, 02:28 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 14 2005, 02:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I wanna see some fossils, someone find me one of those "fossil records" I wanna look how fossils evolve over time. I really wanna see a good visual maybe that'll help me. so if someone finds one of those let me know <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <a href='http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/specimen.html' target='_blank'>http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/specimen.html</a> Here are a list of images with descriptions and species names of human ancestors. <a href='http://www.handprint.com/LS/ANC/evol.html' target='_blank'>http://www.handprint.com/LS/ANC/evol.html</a> Here is a chart that shows which species humans are descended from and in which order. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> well all those heads are human heads... so how does that prove we came from amebas? I wanna see a fish... then a fish with legs... then a fish walking on two legs... then a fish losing its tell walking on two legs... then I wanna see my grandpa.... that would prove it to me pretty well
yes of course theres small varitions like head size and bone strucure. that shows that micro evolution is true... but what about marco evolution? I'm still not diggin it <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> This <b>is</b> macroevolution. This is evolution from one species to another. You want to see a fish with legs? Look at a salamander. You want to see a fish, then a fish with legs, then a fish losing its tail and walking on legs? Look at a tadpole turning into a frog. I'm sure you've got a picture of your grandpa somewhere around that you can look at if you want.
Look at this: <a href='http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/R/Romanes.jpg' target='_blank'>http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/...s/R/Romanes.jpg</a> This is an image of the fetuses of many different vertebrates. Notice how alike they are? This is an example of evolution. These shared characteristics are so specific that it is highly improbably that they could have come from anything other than shared ancestry. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> that new hyperlink is drawn though... not fossils.... sure anyone with imagination can say " hey this kinda looks like this... which kinda looks like this... which kinda looks like that.."
I think the reason they all look kinda the same is because when god was making all the animals.. he stuck with structure designs that were pretty good. I mean why bother making animals that are gonna die right off the bat. (thats why a lot of animals have similiar strucutures is because it works)
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 13 2005, 11:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 13 2005, 11:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think the reason they all look kinda the same is because when god was making all the animals.. he stuck with structure designs that were pretty good. I mean why bother making animals that are gonna die right off the bat. (thats why a lot of animals have similiar strucutures is because it works) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You don't need god for that at all. The animals that evolved poorly died. The ones that evolved well didn't, and contiued to breed. Thats natural selection, not divine intervention.
<!--QuoteBegin-Mantrid+Mar 14 2005, 02:55 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mantrid @ Mar 14 2005, 02:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 13 2005, 11:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 13 2005, 11:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think the reason they all look kinda the same is because when god was making all the animals.. he stuck with structure designs that were pretty good. I mean why bother making animals that are gonna die right off the bat. (thats why a lot of animals have similiar strucutures is because it works) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You don't need god for that at all. The animals that evolved poorly died. The ones that evolved well didn't, and contiued to breed. Thats natural selection, not divine intervention. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Only threw perseverance did the snail reach the ark my friend. And right you are the strong survive. So strong monkeys grow up and have baby MONKEYS
how come if there's millions of fossils that show missing links there's no living animals that show missing links? I mean why isn't their any monkey/human hybrids running around anymore?
Comments
You're seventeen? Huh. I didn't think you were that old. Just for the sake of curiousity, where do you live, AvengerX?
You do know that the theory of evolution has the exact same status as the theory of gravity does, right?
You display a flawed understanding of evolution if you think that you can breed monkeys from humans or that humans were descended from chimpanzees or any other modern ape.
Then again, the quantum level is a pretty weird place...
This isn't an excuse for anyone. Your actions are what people judge you on, not what your age is, or what excuses you use to justify your actions. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not ashamed of any of my actions thank you very much. why should I be? why should I have to feel bad about believing in what I do. so what guys like you are gonna try to tear me down. well guess what its not gonna work. I stand up for what I believe in and just because people like you think people like me are crazy, I don't care. I think I have great charecter for my age, considering you guys believe in nothing but what others tell you. you've just jumped on this evolution band wagon haven't ya. ya know what I've searched for knowledge and I've found it. and I know whats true and just because you guys don't understand I'm not going to change my views.
This isn't an excuse for anyone. Your actions are what people judge you on, not what your age is, or what excuses you use to justify your actions. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not ashamed of any of my actions thank you very much. why should I be? why should I have to feel bad about believing in what I do. so what guys like you are gonna try to tear me down. well guess what its not gonna work. I stand up for what I believe in and just because people like you think people like me are crazy, I don't care. I think I have great charecter for my age, considering you guys believe in nothing but what others tell you. you've just jumped on this evolution band wagon haven't ya. ya know what I've searched for knowledge and I've found it. and I know whats true and just because you guys don't understand I'm not going to change my views. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're being attacked because you come in here and troll. You insult people, refuse to listen to the facts, and spout unsupported dogmatic arguments. Our problem isn't with your Christian beliefs, but with the fact that you won't listen to anyone else and your beliefs in other categories (evolution) are just as unwavering as your belief in Christianity. You can't discuss if you can't listen. Plus, your spelling/grammar makes your statements hard to read, which often puts our rage about you over the top.
How are you different? <i>You've</i> just jumped on the <i>religion</i> bandwagon.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Funny you should say that, since Newtonian gravity is on the verge of being disproved. We have discovered (thanks to pioneer and voyager) that gravity doesn't seem to work the same way at very long distances. So be carefull what you call "proven fact". Science has all sorts of terms to describe ideas of different provability, for instance "theory" is an idea that has withstood all the tests thrown at it so far and hasn't been disproven, but can't be explicitly proven (IIRC, Apos will correct me I'm sure).
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->no if we have two monkeys make a baby... I bet if I breed a 1000s monkeys they'd all come out baby monkeys.... and no humans... too bad huh?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course they would. A huge change like things-that-are-definatly-monkeys becoming things-that-aren't-nessesarily-monkeys takes many, many generations and selection pressures that will incline them to become sufficiently non-mokey like. However, it should be noted that visible changes can be seen in very few generations with the right selection pressures, for instance an experement was conducted on a mink farm (I dont like mink farms BTW) where only the most "tame" minks were allowed to breed. In only a few generations, not only did they have really tame minks, but the minks also started to take on color patterns in their coat that didn't occur in "normal" minks. So if you bred monkeys for long enough, with certain selection pressures, then it is likely you'd see a fairly noticable change fairly quickly.
Avenger, it isn't your religion that you should be ashamed of, its the statements you make (like the last one I quoted in reference to your character) that you should be ashamed of, because they are so contrary to what your religion supposedly preaches.
It's foxes actually, but this is an interesting point. They bred wild foxes specifically to tame them so they could harvest their coats easier. What happened was that they greatly changed their appearance. Their coats become less shiny and sleek, their ears became floppy, etc. An analogy that would describe this effect would be dogs:wolves::tame foxes:wild foxes. The change in appearance was that drastic.
How are you different? <i>You've</i> just jumped on the <i>religion</i> bandwagon. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
at least my band wagon is going to a nice place.
How are you different? <i>You've</i> just jumped on the <i>religion</i> bandwagon. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
at least my band wagon is going to a nice place. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No its not, its going nowhere, just like ours. The difference is everyone in your bandwagon <i>thinks</i> they are going somewhere nice. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
But seriously, can we keep the religion out of this now, please!?
We attacked your points about super long lived people, infertility, and carbon dating, but you didn't respond with anything other than the same dogmatic insistence that macroevolution is wrong that you had before this discussion. I don't think you've made one valid point about evolution that you have successfully tried to defend. Every time we demolish your arguments, you make more of them, we take those down, you say that you just don't believe in macroevolution, but you won't give another reason why. You can't admit that you're wrong about this issue, for some reason.
We attacked your points about super long lived people, infertility, and carbon dating, but you didn't respond with anything other than the same dogmatic insistence that macroevolution is wrong that you had before this discussion. I don't think you've made one valid point about evolution that you have successfully tried to defend. Every time we demolish your arguments, you make more of them, we take those down, you say that you just don't believe in macroevolution, but you won't give another reason why. You can't admit that you're wrong about this issue, for some reason. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because you refuses to listen to Doctorines and Truths in the scriptures.
<a href='http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/specimen.html' target='_blank'>http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/specimen.html</a>
Here are a list of images with descriptions and species names of human ancestors.
<a href='http://www.handprint.com/LS/ANC/evol.html' target='_blank'>http://www.handprint.com/LS/ANC/evol.html</a>
Here is a chart that shows which species humans are descended from and in which order.
We attacked your points about super long lived people, infertility, and carbon dating, but you didn't respond with anything other than the same dogmatic insistence that macroevolution is wrong that you had before this discussion. I don't think you've made one valid point about evolution that you have successfully tried to defend. Every time we demolish your arguments, you make more of them, we take those down, you say that you just don't believe in macroevolution, but you won't give another reason why. You can't admit that you're wrong about this issue, for some reason. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because you refuses to listen to Doctorines and Truths in the scriptures. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do you have any corroborating evidence supporting your scripture? Records from Romans talking about Jesus resurrecting or from Egyptians talking about the 10 plagues or something like that would be enlightening. The only evidence that I've seen has been created by people who follow the particular religion that their evidence pertains to. The only accounts of Jesus' ressurrection are in Judeo-Christian books.
Frankly, I don't think that 2000 year old religious texts are good to use as supporting evidence in justifying your disbelief in evolution.
<a href='http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/specimen.html' target='_blank'>http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/specimen.html</a>
Here are a list of images with descriptions and species names of human ancestors.
<a href='http://www.handprint.com/LS/ANC/evol.html' target='_blank'>http://www.handprint.com/LS/ANC/evol.html</a>
Here is a chart that shows which species humans are descended from and in which order. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
well all those heads are human heads... so how does that prove we came from amebas? I wanna see a fish... then a fish with legs... then a fish walking on two legs... then a fish losing its tell walking on two legs... then I wanna see my grandpa.... that would prove it to me pretty well
yes of course theres small varitions like head size and bone strucure. that shows that micro evolution is true... but what about marco evolution? I'm still not diggin it
We attacked your points about super long lived people, infertility, and carbon dating, but you didn't respond with anything other than the same dogmatic insistence that macroevolution is wrong that you had before this discussion. I don't think you've made one valid point about evolution that you have successfully tried to defend. Every time we demolish your arguments, you make more of them, we take those down, you say that you just don't believe in macroevolution, but you won't give another reason why. You can't admit that you're wrong about this issue, for some reason. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because you refuses to listen to Doctorines and Truths in the scriptures. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do you have any corroborating evidence supporting your scripture? Records from Romans talking about Jesus resurrecting or from Egyptians talking about the 10 plagues or something like that would be enlightening. The only evidence that I've seen has been created by people who follow the particular religion that their evidence pertains to. The only accounts of Jesus' ressurrection are in Judeo-Christian books.
here's something <a href='http://www.beyondthisplanet.org/bible/No_mistakes/accurate_history_intro.htm' target='_blank'>Here</a>
Frankly, I don't think that 2000 year old religious texts are good to use as supporting evidence in justifying your disbelief in evolution. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
there's historical evidence that supports the bible. lemme find some real quick, I gotat pull my resources
STOP DERAILING THE THREAD WITH RELIGIOUS CRAP! ALL OF YOU! If you want to debate the historical evidence support whatever, create a new thread!
STOP DERAILING THE THREAD WITH RELIGIOUS CRAP! ALL OF YOU! If you want to debate the historical evidence support whatever, create a new thread! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
if your right.... which your sure you are... whats the harm in exploring other false options?
STOP DERAILING THE THREAD WITH RELIGIOUS CRAP! ALL OF YOU! If you want to debate the historical evidence support whatever, create a new thread! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
if your right.... which your sure you are... whats the harm in exploring other false options? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its entirely off topic! Seriously, that line of argument will have absolutely nothing to do with abiogenesis, evolution, common ancestry, or anything that this thread was designed to deal with, so it needs to be in annother thread!
STOP DERAILING THE THREAD WITH RELIGIOUS CRAP! ALL OF YOU! If you want to debate the historical evidence support whatever, create a new thread! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
if your right.... which your sure you are... whats the harm in exploring other false options? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its entirely off topic! Seriously, that line of argument will have absolutely nothing to do with abiogenesis, evolution, common ancestry, or anything that this thread was designed to deal with, so it needs to be in annother thread! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
if the bible is historically accurate... then the bible is true... then that means adam was made from dust and Eve came from his rib (even tho both those are symbols) and that would prove evolution is false... how can you say it doesn't pertain to this?
No, you're mistaken. Even if you can prove that parts of it are true, only those parts will be true, it won't automatically make the origin story true. If you want to try and prove the truth of the origin story independant of the rest of scripture, then you're welcome to it (you will be unsuccessfull, I mean, if it were that easy to prove then it would have been done already).
<a href='http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/specimen.html' target='_blank'>http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/specimen.html</a>
Here are a list of images with descriptions and species names of human ancestors.
<a href='http://www.handprint.com/LS/ANC/evol.html' target='_blank'>http://www.handprint.com/LS/ANC/evol.html</a>
Here is a chart that shows which species humans are descended from and in which order. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
well all those heads are human heads... so how does that prove we came from amebas? I wanna see a fish... then a fish with legs... then a fish walking on two legs... then a fish losing its tell walking on two legs... then I wanna see my grandpa.... that would prove it to me pretty well
yes of course theres small varitions like head size and bone strucure. that shows that micro evolution is true... but what about marco evolution? I'm still not diggin it <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
This <b>is</b> macroevolution. This is evolution from one species to another. You want to see a fish with legs? Look at a salamander. You want to see a fish, then a fish with legs, then a fish losing its tail and walking on legs? Look at a tadpole turning into a frog. I'm sure you've got a picture of your grandpa somewhere around that you can look at if you want.
Look at this:
<a href='http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/R/Romanes.jpg' target='_blank'>http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/...s/R/Romanes.jpg</a>
This is an image of the fetuses of many different vertebrates. Notice how alike they are? This is an example of evolution. These shared characteristics are so specific that it is highly improbably that they could have come from anything other than shared ancestry.
No, you're mistaken. Even if you can prove that parts of it are true, only those parts will be true, it won't automatically make the origin story true. If you want to try and prove the truth of the origin story independant of the rest of scripture, then you're welcome to it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
ok then same goes for evolution... Mircro evolution is true. but common ancestry is still up in the air as far as I'm concerened.
and if god is true then thats all that really matters then isn't it
We attacked your points about super long lived people, infertility, and carbon dating, but you didn't respond with anything other than the same dogmatic insistence that macroevolution is wrong that you had before this discussion. I don't think you've made one valid point about evolution that you have successfully tried to defend. Every time we demolish your arguments, you make more of them, we take those down, you say that you just don't believe in macroevolution, but you won't give another reason why. You can't admit that you're wrong about this issue, for some reason. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because you refuses to listen to Doctorines and Truths in the scriptures. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do you have any corroborating evidence supporting your scripture? Records from Romans talking about Jesus resurrecting or from Egyptians talking about the 10 plagues or something like that would be enlightening. The only evidence that I've seen has been created by people who follow the particular religion that their evidence pertains to. The only accounts of Jesus' ressurrection are in Judeo-Christian books.
here's something <a href='http://www.beyondthisplanet.org/bible/No_mistakes/accurate_history_intro.htm' target='_blank'>Here</a>
Frankly, I don't think that 2000 year old religious texts are good to use as supporting evidence in justifying your disbelief in evolution. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
there's historical evidence that supports the bible. lemme find some real quick, I gotat pull my resources <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
When you find these sources, AvengerX, make a new thread. We can debate historical corroboration for religious books in another thread, so we can return to evolution here.
<a href='http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/specimen.html' target='_blank'>http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/specimen.html</a>
Here are a list of images with descriptions and species names of human ancestors.
<a href='http://www.handprint.com/LS/ANC/evol.html' target='_blank'>http://www.handprint.com/LS/ANC/evol.html</a>
Here is a chart that shows which species humans are descended from and in which order. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
well all those heads are human heads... so how does that prove we came from amebas? I wanna see a fish... then a fish with legs... then a fish walking on two legs... then a fish losing its tell walking on two legs... then I wanna see my grandpa.... that would prove it to me pretty well
yes of course theres small varitions like head size and bone strucure. that shows that micro evolution is true... but what about marco evolution? I'm still not diggin it <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This <b>is</b> macroevolution. This is evolution from one species to another. You want to see a fish with legs? Look at a salamander. You want to see a fish, then a fish with legs, then a fish losing its tail and walking on legs? Look at a tadpole turning into a frog. I'm sure you've got a picture of your grandpa somewhere around that you can look at if you want.
Look at this:
<a href='http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/R/Romanes.jpg' target='_blank'>http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/...s/R/Romanes.jpg</a>
This is an image of the fetuses of many different vertebrates. Notice how alike they are? This is an example of evolution. These shared characteristics are so specific that it is highly improbably that they could have come from anything other than shared ancestry. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
that new hyperlink is drawn though... not fossils.... sure anyone with imagination can say " hey this kinda looks like this... which kinda looks like this... which kinda looks like that.."
You don't need god for that at all. The animals that evolved poorly died. The ones that evolved well didn't, and contiued to breed. Thats natural selection, not divine intervention.
You don't need god for that at all. The animals that evolved poorly died. The ones that evolved well didn't, and contiued to breed. Thats natural selection, not divine intervention. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Only threw perseverance did the snail reach the ark my friend. And right you are the strong survive. So strong monkeys grow up and have baby MONKEYS
how come if there's millions of fossils that show missing links there's no living animals that show missing links? I mean why isn't their any monkey/human hybrids running around anymore?