The Bible

Sky · April 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I'm not talking about the whole world not having sex. I'm talking about me as an individual and how I think its a good idea and that most people should do it if they can because they will be better off having done it.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Perfect! That's you exercising your beliefs on others, and passively suggesting to others already partly keyed-in to your point of view that they try it. Well done. Now don't judge people who go against that. Remember this line:
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JC)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

[edit]Don't get the wrong idea from this conversation. This forum isn't completely and adamantly against Christians. I fit in well here, because I'm willing to take my faith with a grain of humanity. AvengerX, on the other hand, was banned (only from this forum, mind you, not from the rest of the board) because he was extremely crude in his arguments - comparing homosexuality with bestiality and the like - and when forced into a logical corner he would lash out with ferocious insults that would completely destroy otherwise-civil threads. So far, you have been quite civil; there is no chance of you getting restricted, I can assure you, if you continue arguing as you do. You won't win many friends among the evolutionists, but then again you're not trying to are you?

theclam · April 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ninja of The Night @ Apr 6 2005, 09:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I'm not talking about the whole world not having sex. I'm talking about me as an individual and how I think its a good idea and that most people should do it if they can because they will be better off having done it.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
No, you were talking about the spread of STDs. We were talking about the ban on masturbation.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>have you ever heard "its better to be trusted then to be loved" its a commandement to love everyone. and I try to , its hard at times but I try, but are you to trust everyone? no! your not suppose to. if a guy at the airport asks you to carry a strange mystery packadge thats making a strange ticking noise onto a plane... you say NO!!!!!! you do not have to trust everyone. you do not. you can love people without trusting them,

example- my parents love me, and for the most part they trust me, but if I were to do something bad and betray that trust... would they love me? yes. would they trust me? no. well not for a time being at least. see how that works?</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
This is a classic AvengerX argument. You were saying that you judged a suspicious person. I said that Christianity teaches that you shouldn't judge. You say that you were talking about not trusting someone, rather than judging that person.

SkulkBait · April 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ninja of The Night @ Apr 6 2005, 09:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> have you ever heard "its better to be trusted then to be loved" its a commandement to love everyone. and I try to , its hard at times but I try </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
No you don't. As evidenced in this very thread.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>, but are you to trust everyone? no! your not suppose to. if a guy at the airport asks you to carry a strange mystery packadge thats making a strange ticking noise onto a plane... you say NO!!!!!! you do not have to trust everyone. you do not. you can love people without trusting them, ...</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Whats all this about trust? Who ever said you have to trust everybody?

---

More, admitedly flaky, evidence that you are actually AvengerX: You said earlier something about drinking being bad, this is typically a morman position, and AvengerX was mormon. Combine that with your extreemly similar debating style, your frequency of insults, and the fact that you claim to be a long time lurker and first time poster, yet also claim to have no idea who AvengerX is (in a humorously suspicious way I might add), and I've pretty much reached my threshold of believablility. I am almost dead certain that you are AvengerX.

Ninja_of_The_Night · April 2005

I'm not casting stones, I don't go out and beat people up, I've never even been in a fight, well a phisical one, I seem to have gotten into a verbal brawl with you people it seems.

I'd like to take this moment to apologize to anyone who I have insulted. in my shortcomings I sometimes throw out comments in a spur of the moment. and I will try hard to avoid insulting people.

lets have a quick recap on my beliefs

Homosexuality - bad
Judging others - needed
love everyone - good

theclam · April 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ninja of The Night @ Apr 6 2005, 09:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I was doing a search on that AvengerX guy, and it seems he didn't aprove of homosexuality... are there any other people that aren't banned that feel the same way?  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
AvengerX was banned because he wouldn't listen to others, wouldn't debate their arguments, and turned rational discussions into back-and-forth flaming. Like you, he would make an argument, then switch the argument to something else, make Straw Men, etc.

SkulkBait · April 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I was doing a search on that AvengerX guy, and it seems he didn't aprove of homosexuality... are there any other people that aren't banned that feel the same way?</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
You know damn well why you were suspended. And FYI, evading the mods will get you BANNED.

---

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ninja of The Night @ Apr 6 2005, 09:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I'm not casting stones, I don't go out and beat people up, I've never even been in a fight, well a phisical one, I seem to have gotten into a verbal brawl with you people it seems.
</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Which is exactly as bad. "Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone" was Jesus' way of saying that judgement is reserved for God, as only he is supposedly sinless.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Homosexuality - bad
Judging others - needed
love everyone - good</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
"Judge not, lest ye be judged yourself" is annother common phrase in christianity. By stating that it is nessesary to judge others, you are stating that the bible is, in part, incorrect. Do you readily admit that?

Ninja_of_The_Night · April 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SkulkBait @ Apr 6 2005, 09:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ninja of The Night @ Apr 6 2005, 09:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> have you ever heard "its better to be trusted then to be loved" its a commandement to love everyone. and I try to , its hard at times but I try </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
No you don't. As evidenced in this very thread.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>, but are you to trust everyone? no! your not suppose to. if a guy at the airport asks you to carry a strange mystery packadge thats making a strange ticking noise onto a plane... you say NO!!!!!! you do not have to trust everyone. you do not. you can love people without trusting them, ...</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Whats all this about trust? Who ever said you have to trust everybody?

---

More, admitedly flaky, evidence that you are actually AvengerX: You said earlier something about drinking being bad, this is typically a morman position, and AvengerX was mormon. Combine that with your extreemly similar debating style, your frequency of insults, and the fact that you claim to be a long time lurker and first time poster, yet also claim to have no idea who AvengerX is (in a humorously suspicious way I might add), and I've pretty much reached my threshold of believablility. I am almost dead certain that you are AvengerX.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
first off,

I've been reading theese forums to improve my NS gaming, I've only read the strads forms for a while, and the artwork forums I like the picture of the hot chick in the bikini.

second off I'm not mormon, I just don't think going out and getting wasted is a great thing, my brother has a drinking problem (he's 25 and throwing his life away)

I dont' know why I insult people so much, I suppose I'm a bitter person

Ninja_of_The_Night · April 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Apr 6 2005, 09:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ninja of The Night @ Apr 6 2005, 09:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I was doing a search on that AvengerX guy, and it seems he didn't aprove of homosexuality... are there any other people that aren't banned that feel the same way? </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
AvengerX was banned because he wouldn't listen to others, wouldn't debate their arguments, and turned rational discussions into back-and-forth flaming. Like you, he would make an argument, then switch the argument to something else, make Straw Men, etc.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
whats a staw man?

and about the whole "judge not that ye shall not be judged"

I think that means, don't pass judgment on them. I can't say.. "this person deserves to burn in hell" or " this person deserves to have me kick them in the face" that is judging, making personal judgements off of expierences gained from knowing a person isn't juding them in that same way. judgment like burning people in hell is something only god can do... and judges can hold people to the laws in a country as well I think.

Sky · April 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ninja of The Night @ Apr 6 2005, 09:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Apr 6 2005, 09:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ninja of The Night @ Apr 6 2005, 09:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I was doing a search on that AvengerX guy, and it seems he didn't aprove of homosexuality... are there any other people that aren't banned that feel the same way? </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
AvengerX was banned because he wouldn't listen to others, wouldn't debate their arguments, and turned rational discussions into back-and-forth flaming. Like you, he would make an argument, then switch the argument to something else, make Straw Men, etc. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
whats a staw man? </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
My definition of a straw man is an argument that looks and sounds good, but in reality is simply a smoke screen that either has a critical logical error or assumption, or doesn't really relate to the point. Let me go check wikipedia....

[edit]Hmm, I was rather off:
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (wikipedia.com)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>As a rhetorical term, "straw man" describes a point of view that was created in order to be easily defeated in argument; the creator of a "straw man" argument does not accurately reflect the best arguments of his or her opponents, but instead sidesteps or mischaracterizes them so as to make the opposing view appear weak or ridiculous.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

Oh well. The More You Know

SkulkBait · April 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ninja of The Night @ Apr 6 2005, 09:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> whats a staw man?
</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
A logical fallicy. If you have no idea what that is, then take a logic class before returning here. More specifically, the strawman fallicy is when you attack something other then the opponents argument, because its easier to attack. For instance, when we were discussing judgement, you argued about trust, even though we said nothing about it. You constructed the trust strawman so you could attack an easier target then our arguments about judgement.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
and about the whole "judge not that ye shall not be judged"

I think that means, don't pass judgment on them. I can't say.. "this person deserves to burn in hell" or " this person deserves to have me kick them in the face" that is judging, making personal judgements off of expierences gained from knowing a person isn't juding them in that same way.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Buh? Yes, yes it is. Besides which you have stated in this thread that:
Homosexuals should die off
My genes should die off
and various other personal attacks against people you know virtually nothing about!

Ninja_of_The_Night · April 2005

Hoping that homosexuality should die off is one thing.... thats something I want... thats not juding..

if I were to go out and make an armory and go and genocide everyone that practiced homosexual activities....... then that would be judging

you don't know anything about me and yet I've been claimed to be not only a mormon (which I'm not ) but allso this AvengerX guy.

theclam · April 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ninja of The Night @ Apr 6 2005, 09:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> whats a staw man?  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Straw Man:
Responding to an opponent by distorting their argument into something that it is not.
<a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man' target='_blank'>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man</a>

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>and about the whole "judge not that ye shall not be judged"

I think that means, don't pass judgment on them. I can't say.. "this person deserves to burn in hell" or " this person deserves to have me kick them in the face" that is judging, making personal judgements off of expierences gained from knowing a person isn't juding them in that same way. judgment like burning people in hell is something only god can do... and judges can hold people to the laws in a country as well I think.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
So judging is ok, but not if you judge someone to deserve physical violence or eternal damnation? I think you should corroborate that with your religious leaders before advocating it.

Sky · April 2005

I do have to say, this thread has exploded since Ninja arrived. I'm definitely getting a bad vibe from him, and a first time poster posting a thread about polygamy (which turned out to be a feint of a topic) rubs me the wrong way, but I will not yet say that he is AvengerX. He could just be God sending another guy here to keep us on our toes. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />

Heh, Cyndane's here, she won't even recognize this thread. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' />

theclam · April 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ninja of The Night @ Apr 6 2005, 09:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> you don't know anything about me and yet I've been claimed to be not only a mormon (which I'm not ) but allso this AvengerX guy.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
The difference is that we're atheists, so we don't have any moral beliefs that stop us from judging people.

SkulkBait · April 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ninja of The Night @ Apr 6 2005, 09:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Hoping that homosexuality should die off is one thing.... thats something I want... thats not juding..

if I were to go out and make an armory and go and genocide everyone that practiced homosexual activities....... then that would be judging  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
No, that would be MURDER. As you said, even though you don't commit the act it is still a sin. Besides which, it is in fact judging, you are judging that homosexuals don't deserve to coninue living.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
you don't know anything about me and yet I've been claimed to be not only a mormon (which I'm not ) but allso this AvengerX guy.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Because its fairly obvious that you are. Or at the very least, we can treat you exactly like we treat him because you act exactly the same way.

Besides which, I can judge you all I want, I'm not a christian, I don't accept God or his laws. You do, and you should hold yourself accountable to them.

Ninja_of_The_Night · April 2005

sent by god? whoa.... this is a wierd bunch you guys got here.but I guess that'd be cool

"Ninja of the Night, the mighty Angel of the lord!!!!!" but it'd be kinda wierd as well.

I'm sorry about being uncivil

FilthyLarry · April 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ninja of The Night @ Apr 6 2005, 08:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> god doesn't take away your freedom to choose, if he did when that person did go try and steal something, a lightning bolt would strike him down, you still have choice, he's just telling you the right choice, its not that hard a concept.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
But apparently it is still hard to punctuate correctly, eh AvengerX <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /> ?

Sky · April 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ninja of The Night @ Apr 6 2005, 09:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> you don't know anything about me and yet I've been claimed to be not only a mormon (which I'm not ) but allso this AvengerX guy.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Well actually we know that AvengerX is mormon. He told us as much.

And as for assuming you are mormon, I think there's a definite difference between judging someone and putting together data to make an assumption. At the time, you appeared to both support polygamy and denounce drinking, two characteristics of mormons. Now it seems that you don't support polygamy, but then again maybe that's just because you ARE AvengerX, and you know that your religion will give you away, so you decided to renounce polygamy to save your cover.

This feels like a game of twg.... <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' />

Ninja_of_The_Night · April 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SkulkBait @ Apr 6 2005, 09:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ninja of The Night @ Apr 6 2005, 09:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Hoping that homosexuality should die off is one thing.... thats something I want... thats not juding..

if I were to go out and make an armory and go and genocide everyone that practiced homosexual activities....... then that would be judging </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
No, that would be MURDER. As you said, even though you don't commit the act it is still a sin. Besides which, it is in fact judging, you are judging that homosexuals don't deserve to coninue living.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
you don't know anything about me and yet I've been claimed to be not only a mormon (which I'm not ) but allso this AvengerX guy.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Because its fairly obvious that you are. Or at the very least, we can treat you exactly like we treat him because you act exactly the same way.

Besides which, I can judge you all I want, I'm not a christian, I don't accept God or his laws. You do, and you should hold yourself accountable to them.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
I respect that. this Country (I'm assuming that you live in the US. please correct me if I'm wrong) you have the freedom to worhship as you please or the lack there off not worship at all.

Ninja_of_The_Night · April 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Apr 6 2005, 09:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ninja of The Night @ Apr 6 2005, 09:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> you don't know anything about me and yet I've been claimed to be not only a mormon (which I'm not ) but allso this AvengerX guy. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Well actually we know that AvengerX is mormon. He told us as much.

And as for assuming you are mormon, I think there's a definite difference between judging someone and putting together data to make an assumption. At the time, you appeared to both support polygamy and denounce drinking, two characteristics of mormons. Now it seems that you don't support polygamy, but then again maybe that's just because you ARE AvengerX, and you know that your religion will give you away, so you decided to renounce polygamy to save your cover.

This feels like a game of twg.... <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' />  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
I went to Jr. High in Utah, and moved to San Diego (my dad lives here, I left utah because I was getting bad grades) but in State history we learned momrans denounced Polygamy. I think the teacher was morman tho,but I'm not sure.

SkulkBait · April 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Apr 6 2005, 09:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> And as for assuming you are mormon, I think there's a definite difference between judging someone and putting together data to make an assumption. At the time, you appeared to both support polygamy and denounce drinking, two characteristics of mormons. Now it seems that you don't support polygamy, but then again maybe that's just because you ARE AvengerX, and you know that your religion will give you away, so you decided to renounce polygamy to save your cover. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
AvengerX didn't support polygamy either, he also claimed (rightly, I guess) that the mormon church didn't support it.

---

Seriously, I've known no other poster who would change the subject and construct straw man arguments as readily as you do AvengerX. You have yet to stay on one topic long enough to counter anybodies initial arguments against it.

Sky · April 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SkulkBait @ Apr 6 2005, 09:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Apr 6 2005, 09:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> And as for assuming you are mormon, I think there's a definite difference between judging someone and putting together data to make an assumption. At the time, you appeared to both support polygamy and denounce drinking, two characteristics of mormons. Now it seems that you don't support polygamy, but then again maybe that's just because you ARE AvengerX, and you know that your religion will give you away, so you decided to renounce polygamy to save your cover. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
AvengerX didn't support polygamy either, he also claimed (rightly, I guess) that the mormon church didn't support it.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Oops, missed that particularly fight...I mean thread. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' />

Ninja_of_The_Night · April 2005

I was rereading the first post of the thread, and I don't believe that quoting the bible undermines your arguement.

lets look at some great speeches that have been given in history that use biblical refrences, there is of course Patrick Henry's "Give me liberty or give me death!" speech, the speech that helped stir the people to taking up arms and fighting the Revolutionary war (among many other things of course) or pretty much any speech back then. the Colonial days people accepted the bible. and I think people should today

theclam · April 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ninja of The Night @ Apr 6 2005, 09:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I was rereading the first post of the thread, and I don't believe that quoting the bible undermines your arguement.

lets look at some great speeches that have been given in history that use biblical refrences, there is of course Patrick Henry's "Give me liberty or give me death!" speech, the speech that helped stir the people to taking up arms and fighting the Revolutionary war (among many other things of course) or pretty much any speech back then. the Colonial days people accepted the bible. and I think people should today  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Quoting the Bible undermines your argument when you're talking about things that don't involve religion (like evolution). Quoting the Bible does not undermine your argument when you're giving a pep talk to stir people up or when you're making an argument about morality (although I think that without any non-scriptural basis for a moral argument, you don't have a viable argument).

Sky · April 2005

Well, again that's jumping to a completely different topic, but I'll bite.

This forum is just a tad bit more demanding than the American public in general. Hell, if you watched Jon Stewart last night, you saw the montage thing of what happened to all the people who were responsible for the intelligence crap-up in Iraq. Most were rewarded on some level, none were even given a slap on the wrist, yet the public accepts this.

Here, on the other hand, we require facts, and for most, the Bible is too old, written by too many authors, translated too many times, and is so up for interpretation that it doesn't constitute fact anymore. So, while quoting the Bible doesn't really weaken your point, <u>relying</u> on a quote from the Bible certainly discredits you when you compare yourself to a factual source.

And speaking of Jon Stewart, the Daily Show's on now, so I'll see this thread in a half hour.

SkulkBait · April 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ninja of The Night @ Apr 6 2005, 09:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I was rereading the first post of the thread, and I don't believe that quoting the bible undermines your arguement.

lets look at some great speeches that have been given in history that use biblical refrences, there is of course Patrick Henry's "Give me liberty or give me death!" speech, the speech that helped stir the people to taking up arms and fighting the Revolutionary war (among many other things of course) or pretty much any speech back then. the Colonial days people accepted the bible. and I think people should today  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
And... what? The fact is that the bible is not proven to be true, there isn't even very strong evidence that the NT is anything more then a historical account mixed with a bunch of fantasy nonsense (as ancient historical accounts often are), and the OT contradicts solid scientific fact. Not to mention the unprovability of God. In other words, the document shouldn't be used to back any argument other then a religious one.

Ninja_of_The_Night · April 2005

I guess thats true, I wouldn't go to a Science convention with my bible in hand getting ready to tell people what's up... but on the other hand, I don't think people who go to church and believe in things should have Science people giving them endless facts and reasons for why they are wrong... so when a topic about evolution comes up, I would avoid playing the bible card, but when a Bible topic comes up, I wouldn't barge in saying that the Bible is false because blah blah blah science....

Cyndane · April 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cyndane @ Apr 5 2005, 10:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
I am the beginning, the middle, and the end
</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
<b> BG 10:20 vs. Rev. 1:8 </b> (BG of course stands for Bhagavad-Gita)
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Krishna's mission was to give directions to "the kingdom of God" , and he warned of "stumbling blocks" along the way </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
<b> BG 2:72 BG 3:34; 1 Cor. 1:23 ; Rev. 2:14 </b>
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Compare "those who are wise lament neither for the living nor the dead" with the sense of Jesus' advice to "let the dead bury their own dead"
</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
<b> BG 2:11 vs Matt. 8:22 </b>
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Krishna's saying, "I envy no man, nor am I partial to anyone; I am equal to all" is a lot like the idea that God is no respecter of persons
</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
<b> BG 9:29 vs Rom. 2:11 & Matt. 6:45 </b>
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
And "one who is equal to friends and enemies... is very dear to me" is reminiscent of "love your enemies"
</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
<b> BG 12:18 vs Matt. 6:44 </b>
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Krishna also said that "by human calculation, a thousand ages taken together is the duration of Brahma's one day" , which is very similar too.
</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
<b> BG 8:17 vs Peter 3:8
</b> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
AvengerX, yes I know it is you, only one person I know uses the
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
for reals
</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
word, and not only is it not a word but it doesn't even make sense.

Thefore I have a challenge for you, your Yehsua (Jesus) legend is based almost exclusively off of the Krishna legend. I have listed a few example above, gg for quoting myself.

Your challenge AvengerX, is to refute those statements with sources that back it up.
I shall simplify it for you even, The BG is the Bhagavad-Gita, one of the FIRST relgious scripts ever written. It is from the Hindu faith, and I was going to post a link to it, but you won't go to it.

I want you to prove that the Bible is older then the Bhagavad-Gita. That is all I am asking. Keep in mind the New Testament in the bible was written around 100AD give for take 50 years. The Bhagavad-Gita was written around 2000-1800 BCE (Obviously this isn't the time scale they used so I made it simplier to convert it to the current calendar year.)
You have exactly, 24 hours. Good Luck.
(Side note, Legionaired has yet to refute my statements, just though I'd point that out.)

Sky: You are right, this thread has offically gone down the hole because of AvengerX and I do hope he is quite thourghly banned, again, this time permantely.

*edit* typos... hahahaha :-)

Ninja_of_The_Night · April 2005

I am not this AvengerX you speak of

SkulkBait · April 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ninja of The Night @ Apr 6 2005, 09:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I guess thats true, I wouldn't go to a Science convention with my bible in hand getting ready to tell people what's up... but on the other hand, I don't think people who go to church and believe in things should have Science people giving them endless facts and reasons for why they are wrong... so when a topic about evolution comes up, I would avoid playing the bible card, but when a Bible topic comes up, I wouldn't barge in saying that the Bible is false because blah blah blah science.... </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Unless the topic is the viability of the bible in the first place, which it happens to be (sortof). I don't know of many non-believers who go around and try to lecture religious folk on why their religion is wrong, but the same is not true for the oposite. These debates tend to start because religious people walk into a scientfic discussion and claim something utterly rediculous, and try to push their religious beliefs on others.

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</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I am not this AvengerX you speak of</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

The evidence suggests otherwise. Come clean now and maybe the mods won't ban you. Then again maybe (hopefully) they will.

The Bible

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