<!--QuoteBegin-Ninja of The Night+Apr 6 2005, 09:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ninja of The Night @ Apr 6 2005, 09:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I guess thats true, I wouldn't go to a Science convention with my bible in hand getting ready to tell people what's up... but on the other hand, I don't think people who go to church and believe in things should have Science people giving them endless facts and reasons for why they are wrong... so when a topic about evolution comes up, I would avoid playing the bible card, but when a Bible topic comes up, I wouldn't barge in saying that the Bible is false because blah blah blah science.... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If you're trying to equate religion with science, you're horribly wrong. Science doesn't try to discredit religion at all. Science tries to discover the truth through logical means. When science enters an argument, it has a leg to stand on. When religion enters an argument, it doesn't. Still religious types seem to think that they can force their unjustified beliefs upon others (e.g. homosexual marriage and evolution). That's partially what this thread is about.
<!--QuoteBegin-Cyndane+Apr 6 2005, 10:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cyndane @ Apr 6 2005, 10:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yes, you are. Now get with the refuting (That means solving the issue.) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ahhhhhhhhh, I'm not AvengerX. you have no proof that I am. come over to my house and run a DNA test, then go find AvengerX and get his DNA and then if its the same person then say that
I have given you the evidence, there is no one on this forum who uses that phrase "for reals" and while AvengerX did it sparingly, so did you. Thusly, I conclude among other bits of evidence that you are.
Now, quit changing the topic and solve the issue I presented.
<!--QuoteBegin-Ninja of The Night+Apr 6 2005, 10:05 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ninja of The Night @ Apr 6 2005, 10:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Cyndane+Apr 6 2005, 10:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cyndane @ Apr 6 2005, 10:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yes, you are. Now get with the refuting (That means solving the issue.) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ahhhhhhhhh, I'm not AvengerX. you have no proof that I am. come over to my house and run a DNA test, then go find AvengerX and get his DNA and then if its the same person then say that <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> There is quite a bit of evidence that you are, actually. Either way clam is right, theres no reason to keep pestering you about it. Even if the mods don't check your IP, or you got a different IP or whatever, and ban you, they will ban you for using the same tactics that you did before you were suspended.
<!--QuoteBegin-Ninja of The Night+Apr 6 2005, 10:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ninja of The Night @ Apr 6 2005, 10:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I wasn't manufactoured, I'm not a clone, I have a naval if you want to see it <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> What does the Navy have to do with clones? If you're talking about the navel, clones have them too.
<!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Apr 6 2005, 10:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Apr 6 2005, 10:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Ninja of The Night+Apr 6 2005, 10:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ninja of The Night @ Apr 6 2005, 10:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I wasn't manufactoured, I'm not a clone, I have a naval if you want to see it <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> What does the Navy have to do with clones? If you're talking about the navel, clones have them too. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> are you serious? I allways thought they wouldn't have one....I guess if they are a Genetic duplicate of someone who did have a belly button then they would to... but do they use it when there being... I dunno what it is clones do
<!--QuoteBegin-Ninja of The Night+Apr 6 2005, 10:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ninja of The Night @ Apr 6 2005, 10:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Apr 6 2005, 10:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Apr 6 2005, 10:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Ninja of The Night+Apr 6 2005, 10:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ninja of The Night @ Apr 6 2005, 10:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I wasn't manufactoured, I'm not a clone, I have a naval if you want to see it <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> What does the Navy have to do with clones? If you're talking about the navel, clones have them too. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> are you serious? I allways thought they wouldn't have one....I guess if they are a Genetic duplicate of someone who did have a belly button then they would to... but do they use it when there being... I dunno what it is clones do <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> A belly button doesn't have much to do with genetics. Any human born from a pregnant women (like a clone would be) will have a navel.
<!--QuoteBegin-Ninja of The Night+Apr 6 2005, 10:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ninja of The Night @ Apr 6 2005, 10:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Apr 6 2005, 10:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Apr 6 2005, 10:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Ninja of The Night+Apr 6 2005, 10:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ninja of The Night @ Apr 6 2005, 10:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I wasn't manufactoured, I'm not a clone, I have a naval if you want to see it <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> What does the Navy have to do with clones? If you're talking about the navel, clones have them too. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> are you serious? I allways thought they wouldn't have one....I guess if they are a Genetic duplicate of someone who did have a belly button then they would to... but do they use it when there being... I dunno what it is clones do <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Wow... I think my ability to handle nonsense has been overloaded.
<!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Apr 6 2005, 10:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Apr 6 2005, 10:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Ninja of The Night+Apr 6 2005, 10:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ninja of The Night @ Apr 6 2005, 10:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Apr 6 2005, 10:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Apr 6 2005, 10:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Ninja of The Night+Apr 6 2005, 10:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ninja of The Night @ Apr 6 2005, 10:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I wasn't manufactoured, I'm not a clone, I have a naval if you want to see it <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> What does the Navy have to do with clones? If you're talking about the navel, clones have them too. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> are you serious? I allways thought they wouldn't have one....I guess if they are a Genetic duplicate of someone who did have a belly button then they would to... but do they use it when there being... I dunno what it is clones do <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> A belly button doesn't have much to do with genetics. Any human born from a pregnant women (like a clone would be) will have a navel. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> whoa whoa whoa.... clones come from Wombs? I thought they were grown in test tubes.
forgive me for my ignorance the only knowledge I have from clones comes from two bad sources (Video Games and Movies) so I don't really know much about it
<!--QuoteBegin-Ninja of The Night+Apr 6 2005, 10:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ninja of The Night @ Apr 6 2005, 10:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Apr 6 2005, 10:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Apr 6 2005, 10:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Ninja of The Night+Apr 6 2005, 10:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ninja of The Night @ Apr 6 2005, 10:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Apr 6 2005, 10:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Apr 6 2005, 10:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Ninja of The Night+Apr 6 2005, 10:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ninja of The Night @ Apr 6 2005, 10:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I wasn't manufactoured, I'm not a clone, I have a naval if you want to see it <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> What does the Navy have to do with clones? If you're talking about the navel, clones have them too. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> are you serious? I allways thought they wouldn't have one....I guess if they are a Genetic duplicate of someone who did have a belly button then they would to... but do they use it when there being... I dunno what it is clones do <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> A belly button doesn't have much to do with genetics. Any human born from a pregnant women (like a clone would be) will have a navel. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> whoa whoa whoa.... clones come from Wombs? I thought they were grown in test tubes.
forgive me for my ignorance the only knowledge I have from clones comes from two bad sources (Video Games and Movies) so I don't really know much about it <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Clones are the same as you and me. The only difference is that their DNA is determined by the DNA of their "parent," while our DNA is a combination of the DNA of our mothers and fathers. See: <a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolly_the_sheep' target='_blank'>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolly_the_sheep</a>
<!--QuoteBegin-Ninja of The Night+Apr 6 2005, 10:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ninja of The Night @ Apr 6 2005, 10:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> thats cool, I wanna be cloned... in fact I wanna small clone army <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You'll need a small fortune. Actually, a large fortune. Actually, you have a better chance of buying Saudi Arabia. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Let's stop harassing him about being AvengerX. They were both manufactured in the same way, so there are bound to be similarities. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Quite. It's rather intriguing how people often so devoted to facts and only proven facts are so adamant that he and Avenger are one and the same. Like Skulkbait said, the mods can check the IPs if they want to, but I would really stop hounding him about it, because you all are going to look mighty silly if they turn out to be different people. I gave this quote to AvengerX once before: "Make sure your words are soft and gentle today, because tomorrow you may have to eat them."
<!--QuoteBegin-Cyndane+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cyndane)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Sky: You are right, this thread has offically gone down the hole because of AvengerX and I do hope he is quite thourghly banned, again, this time permantely<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Now wait a minute, I'm right about a lot of things (/tooting own horn <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) but I never said that I disapproved of Ninja's discussion forum etiquette. He's being quite civil, really. And while I was definitely glad to see Avenger go (I was about ready to make a topic dedicated to calling for said ban after the evolution thread), I definitely do not want a potentially completely new member banned because of a misunderstanding.
Actually, I think Ninja's presence has dug this thread out of stagnation. The back-and-forth between you and KFDM and Legionaired really wasn't getting anywhere.
And yes I noticed the "for reals". However, maybe that's common slang where he lives. It would hardly be uncommon for two forumites to live relatively close to each other.
<!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Apr 6 2005, 10:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Apr 6 2005, 10:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And yes I noticed the "for reals". However, maybe that's common slang where he lives. It would hardly be uncommon for two forumites to live relatively close to each other. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It would if one lived in Utah and the other claims to live in California. Though Ninja did claim to have lived in Utah previously, perhaps its Utah youth's failed attempt at sounding cool.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Actually, I think Ninja's presence has dug this thread out of stagnation.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Better stagnation then what we had for the last hour or so here. I'd much rather see reasonable arguments with less frequency then be continuosly bombarded by nonsense.
I have yet to refute your statements because I have once again caved in to my base desires, and once again suckle at the sweet, sweet nectar that is WoW. I disgust myself, but it feels so good. I've been selling blacksmithed armor with a 25% profit margin, and as a level 24 I have a better gold/hour average than the rest of my level 60 guildsman (I think.)
But I digress.
Anyway, I just worked for 6 hours, so I'll only fire a few objections off from the hip here. I don't expect it to be the be-all and end all here, but meh. I'll be using a different translation than the one you posted, it'll be easyer for me to copy-paste it.
Italics are mine for all of the below.
[quote][QUOTE] I am the beginning, the middle, and the end [/QUOTE] <b> BG 10:20 vs. Rev. 1:8 </b> (BG of course stands for Bhagavad-Gita)[/quote]
BG 10:20 I am the Self, O Gudakesa, seated in the hearts of all creatures. I am the beginning, the middle and the end of all beings.
<i>Stresses Krishna's claims of being one with all, note "seated in the hearts of all creatures"</i> Rev1:8 8"I am (AA)the Alpha and the Omega," says the (AB)Lord God, "(AC)who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." <i>Stresses Christ's claims of Lordship over all creation.</i>
Oneness != Lordship.
[quote][QUOTE] Krishna's mission was to give directions to "the kingdom of God" , and he warned of "stumbling blocks" along the way [/QUOTE] <b> BG 2:72 BG 3:34; 1 Cor. 1:23 ; Rev. 2:14 </b> [/QUOTE]
Bg 2:71-72 : "A person who has given up all desires for sense gratification, who lives free from desires, who has given up all sense of proprietorship and is devoid of false ego--he alone can attain real peace. That is the way of the spiritual and godly life, after attaining which a man is not bewildered. Being so situated, even at the hour of death, one can enter into the kingdom of God. "
<i>Krishna's directions to the kingdom of God (note the fact that although the english translations appear similar, both religions disagree entirely on what the kingdom of Heaven or the kingdom of God really is. Is it peace and freedom from individual existance as part of the Brahman-Atman, or is it personal and eternal fellowship with a personal creator God?)</i>
1 Corinthians 23but we preach [c](AV)Christ crucified, (AW)to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles (AX)foolishness,
24but to those who are (AY)the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ (AZ)the power of God and (BA)the wisdom of God.
<i>Evidenced by the intellectual contempt a lot of people here hold for Christians, and the reactions of a lot of Christians to unbelief. It's not a copied statement, and it's an astute observation. (By Paul, by the way, not by Jesus.)</i>
[quote]<b> BG 2:11 vs Matt. 8:22 </b> [QUOTE] Krishna's saying, "I envy no man, nor am I partial to anyone; I am equal to all" is a lot like the idea that God is no respecter of persons [/QUOTE][/quote[
BG 2:11ff The Blessed Lord said: While speaking learned words, you are mourning for what is not worthy of grief. Those who are wise lament neither for the living nor the dead.
Chapter 2, Verse 12. Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.
Chapter 2, Verse 13. As the embodied soul continuously passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. A self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change.
<i>Don't mourn death because of reincarnation.</i> Matthew 8:22 <i><a href='http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=Matt%209:9;%20Mark%202:14;%20Luke%209:59,%2060;%20John%201:43;%2021:19&version=49' target='_blank'>Linkeh.</a> The calling of his disciples in similar fashions. Note the cross-reference to Luke; Jesus told Philip that Philip's purpose wasn't to mourn his father's death, but to follow Him.</i>
[quote] <b> BG 9:29 vs Rom. 2:11 & Matt. 6:45 </b> [QUOTE] And "one who is equal to friends and enemies... is very dear to me" is reminiscent of "love your enemies" [/QUOTE][/quote] BG 9:29 : I envy no one, nor am I partial to anyone. I am equal to all. But whoever renders service unto Me in devotion is a friend, is in Me, and I am also a friend to him.
<i>"I am fair, I look at people only how they treat me." Universal truism for good living: or, if you rather, universal truism saying "don't be a bigoted bastard." Good advice.</i>
Matthew 6 only has 34 verses. You probably meant Matthew 5:43ff
43“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[h] and hate your enemy.’ 44But I tell you: Love your enemies<i> and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
[i]Do good to your enemies to glorify God. Nowhere is the equality of God's acceptance mentioned here (though it certainly is talked about later.)</i>
[QUOTE] Krishna also said that "by human calculation, a thousand ages taken together is the duration of Brahma's one day" , which is very similar too. [/QUOTE]
BG 8:17ff - By human calculation, a thousand ages taken together is the duration of Brahma's one day. And such also is the duration of his night.
Chapter 8, Verse 18. When Brahma's day is manifest, this multitude of living entities comes into being, and at the arrival of Brahma's night they are all annihilated.
Chapter 8, Verse 19. Again and again the day comes, and this host of beings is active; and again the night falls, O Partha, and they are helplessly dissolved.
Chapter 8, Verse 20. Yet there is another nature, which is eternal and is transcendental to this manifested and unmanifested matter. It is supreme and is never annihilated. When all in this world is annihilated, that part remains as it is.
<i>IE: Brahma is eternal, and this world happens many many times over.</i>
1 Peter 3:8-9 8But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
<i>This is only happening for the first time, and don't lose heart when you think God is being slow, because God has good reasons for taking His time: Saving people.</i>
I'm sure you yourself could dig through and find pages and pages of stuff like this, and I could show time and time again that they are talking at cross purposes. Take the whole piece of text in context, and you'll see that the meanings behind the translations are incredibly different.
What I keeped getting very irked about is this:
[quote]I want you to prove that the Bible is older then the Bhagavad-Gita. That is all I am asking. Keep in mind the New Testament in the bible was written around 100AD give for take 50 years. The Bhagavad-Gita was written around 2000-1800 BCE (Obviously this isn't the time scale they used so I made it simplier to convert it to the current calendar year.)[/quote]
Well, if they speak at entirely different purposes, drawing off entirely different points of view, and preach entirely different worldviews, it doesn't matter which one came first, because they would be totally different.
The only similarity is that they both hold there is a diety, but they disagree even as to what that diety is! Is He the personal, loving, just God of Christianity, or is it the impersonal, un-moved mover of the Hindu faith, Brahma? It, or he, certainly cannot be both.
EDIT: The forum tags killed my post and all I got was this lousy edit. I'm sure you can pick your way through it, so I'm just going to get some well-needed sleep.
That, or sell some sets of Shining Silvered Armor. I hate Blizzard, like a heroin addict that hates his dealer, but still finds himself reaching time and time again for his fix.
<!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Apr 6 2005, 09:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Apr 6 2005, 09:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Actually, I think Ninja's presence has dug this thread out of stagnation. The back-and-forth between you and KFDM and Legionaired really wasn't getting anywhere.
And yes I noticed the "for reals". However, maybe that's common slang where he lives. It would hardly be uncommon for two forumites to live relatively close to each other. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm only quoting this because I some what agree. However, it may have been stagnated but only because I am still awaiting a response from a certain someone.
While it may not be uncommon for two forumites to live close to each other. Depending upon location in US/UK/Aussieland/etc. I find it very hard to believe people have exactly the same views and speak exactly the same.
I guess I'm just more of a suspicious person about some people. That is all.
Oh yes, just to stop you from tooting your own horn, you are not right on a lot of things. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> J/King of course. Well, kinda. Teehee.
*edit* Wow.. that post was kinda hard to read... after I get some sleep I'll try again tomorrow. Not sure why the forum breaks quotes like that.
I would recommend a girlfriend... but then women are evil so.. nevermind, well at least according to the bible. (Sorry had to put that one in there.) :-)
I don't own Wow, so there really isn't anything I can really do about that drug.
*edit 2* I also disagree with how you have those compared, lets compare them using directly translated from hebrew to english, because I am doing directly from hindu to english. Which is why a lot of the verses sound like engrish.
@Cyndane and Legionnaired I found this link through wikipedia: <a href='http://www.ece.lsu.edu/kak/akhena.pdf' target='_blank'>http://www.ece.lsu.edu/kak/akhena.pdf</a>
Here's a snippet of the conclusion: <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There are important lessons to be drawn from the study of Akhenaten and his hymn to Aten. Scholars see in Akhenaten the beginning of the Judaic monotheistic tradition. Our examination of the facts shows that it might, equally plausibly, be a retelling of the improperly understood ideas, or ideas modi¯ed by the prevailing ones in their new land, in the journey toWest Asia by the Mitannis. We are basing our conclusions not only on the connection to the Mitanni through Akhenaten's wife but also on the pervasiveness of the Vedic concepts in West Asia as in the notion of 33 gods, the use of the disk to represent the sun exactly as is done in Vedic ritual, and the conception of the sun who superintends personal destiny which is perhaps the central idea of Vedic thought. We have also alluded to the similarity between the Vedic Yahv¶ah. and the Hebrew Yahweh and between other gods. These parallels are sign¯cant enough to demand a thorough investigation of the 2nd millennium BC connections between India and the West.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It starts to pick up on similarities between JudeoChristian religions and other religions around page 13, specifically concerning the similarities of Psalm 104 in the OT and the Hymn to Aten. It's an interesting read, but I'm not much of a biblical scholar.
<!--QuoteBegin-Cyndane+Apr 6 2005, 11:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cyndane @ Apr 6 2005, 11:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I found that link too clam I didn't post it because it would be considered "biased" by someone. After all, encyclopedias are biased. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It doesn't matter how biased it is, as long as its arguments are good.
<!--QuoteBegin-Cyndane+Apr 6 2005, 11:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cyndane @ Apr 6 2005, 11:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I found that link too clam I didn't post it because it would be considered "biased" by someone. After all, encyclopedias are biased. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> When have I called an encyclopedia biased? You're putting words in my mouth and trying to pull cheap shots. Stop.
GrendelAll that is fear...Join Date: 2002-07-19Member: 970Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, NS2 Playtester
<!--QuoteBegin-KungFuDiscoMonkey+Apr 7 2005, 02:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (KungFuDiscoMonkey @ Apr 7 2005, 02:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Ninja of The Night+Apr 6 2005, 08:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ninja of The Night @ Apr 6 2005, 08:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> if anything evolution "limits" us. look at what I believe/know as a Christian, that I am a child of god... as in I am a descendent from a heavenly being, and lets look at you guys... we are the child of ...monkeys.... monkeys!?! come on, for reals have a little self esteem why lower yourselves, Adam was given charge over the beasts of the land and you guys say we CAME from the beasts in the land. how pathetic is that. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think I must quote this to emphasize the point. I feel that you guys have deceived yourselves to the point where you will believe anything no matter how absurd it is. I challenge every one of you to do an objective study of the Bible. It's not the number one best seller of time for no reason. It hasn't been translated to thousands of languages for no reason. It's not the most controversial book for no reason. People hate the truths that are contained in it to the point where they abandoned all logic and reason.
Feel free to flame on. The ones claiming Christians follow a blind faith, and the ones who preach evolution as fact are the very same ones who don't have a clue of the message contained in the Bible. You are so blinded by your biases that you refuse to even consider any of the sources we post. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> As someone who was brought up in a religious environment, was a devout catholic for about five years and as someone who used to go to around 3 hours of voluntary mass, at 5:30am every week, I take objection to that KFDM.
My issues with religion and god stem from observation and experience, not preconceptions. My conclusion that, if God exists, he certainly isn't having anything to do with us, is drawn from a number of sources. Those sources included a decade of RI (Religious Instruction), a complete readthrough of the bible (with accompanying discussions) and the study of history, politics and science, both independently and as part of my ridiculously extensive education.
<!--QuoteBegin-Grendel+Apr 7 2005, 06:55 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Grendel @ Apr 7 2005, 06:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-KungFuDiscoMonkey+Apr 7 2005, 02:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (KungFuDiscoMonkey @ Apr 7 2005, 02:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Ninja of The Night+Apr 6 2005, 08:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ninja of The Night @ Apr 6 2005, 08:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> if anything evolution "limits" us. look at what I believe/know as a Christian, that I am a child of god... as in I am a descendent from a heavenly being, and lets look at you guys... we are the child of ...monkeys.... monkeys!?! come on, for reals have a little self esteem why lower yourselves, Adam was given charge over the beasts of the land and you guys say we CAME from the beasts in the land. how pathetic is that. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think I must quote this to emphasize the point. I feel that you guys have deceived yourselves to the point where you will believe anything no matter how absurd it is. I challenge every one of you to do an objective study of the Bible. It's not the number one best seller of time for no reason. It hasn't been translated to thousands of languages for no reason. It's not the most controversial book for no reason. People hate the truths that are contained in it to the point where they abandoned all logic and reason.
Feel free to flame on. The ones claiming Christians follow a blind faith, and the ones who preach evolution as fact are the very same ones who don't have a clue of the message contained in the Bible. You are so blinded by your biases that you refuse to even consider any of the sources we post. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> As someone who was brought up in a religious environment, was a devout catholic for about five years and as someone who used to go to around 3 hours of voluntary mass, at 5:30am every week, I take objection to that KFDM.
My issues with religion and god stem from observation and experience, not preconceptions. My conclusion that, if God exists, he certainly isn't having anything to do with us, is drawn from a number of sources. Those sources included a decade of RI (Religious Instruction), a complete readthrough of the bible (with accompanying discussions) and the study of history, politics and science, both independently and as part of my ridiculously extensive education. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, I, for one, would like to hear more from you. What were the big issues that turned you away from Catholicism? Expand, pretty please. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Ninja of The Night+Apr 6 2005, 08:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ninja of The Night @ Apr 6 2005, 08:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> if anything evolution "limits" us. look at what I believe/know as a Christian, that I am a child of god... as in I am a descendent from a heavenly being, and lets look at you guys... we are the child of ...monkeys.... monkeys!?! come on, for reals have a little self esteem why lower yourselves, Adam was given charge over the beasts of the land and you guys say we CAME from the beasts in the land. how pathetic is that. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You're right. My origins are so important to me that they limit what I can do.
However, I don't think God is so cool. I'm going to believe that I'm descended from a really awesome dragon, instead.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You are so blinded by your biases that you refuse to even consider any of the sources we post.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your sources, as far as anything scientific are concerned, are garbage and have been thoroughly delt with in EVERY previous debate. The likes of AiG is NOT a valid scientific source, unless we're going to be citing tabloid newspapers and similar for proof of things like big foot and aliens.
<!--QuoteBegin-Legionnaired+Apr 7 2005, 12:41 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Legionnaired @ Apr 7 2005, 12:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Cyndane+Apr 6 2005, 11:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cyndane @ Apr 6 2005, 11:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I found that link too clam I didn't post it because it would be considered "biased" by someone. After all, encyclopedias are biased. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> When have I called an encyclopedia biased? You're putting words in my mouth and trying to pull cheap shots. Stop. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If I was referring directly to you legionaired I would have stated as such.
What I don't get is how I can post all these FAQs, etc, clearing up any misconceptions they have about evolution. Then they either don't read them, or don't respond; and proceed to call us closed minded... Sigh.
Choose to disbelieve evolution if you want, but a vast majority of scientists accept it, and it has huge amounts of positive evidence. You can deny this until you're blue in the face it won't do you any good...
Edit: Please at least attempt to show me why evolution is wrong before you call me closed minded.
Comments
If you're trying to equate religion with science, you're horribly wrong. Science doesn't try to discredit religion at all. Science tries to discover the truth through logical means. When science enters an argument, it has a leg to stand on. When religion enters an argument, it doesn't. Still religious types seem to think that they can force their unjustified beliefs upon others (e.g. homosexual marriage and evolution). That's partially what this thread is about.
ahhhhhhhhh, I'm not AvengerX. you have no proof that I am. come over to my house and run a DNA test, then go find AvengerX and get his DNA and then if its the same person then say that
Now, quit changing the topic and solve the issue I presented.
ahhhhhhhhh, I'm not AvengerX. you have no proof that I am. come over to my house and run a DNA test, then go find AvengerX and get his DNA and then if its the same person then say that <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is quite a bit of evidence that you are, actually. Either way clam is right, theres no reason to keep pestering you about it. Even if the mods don't check your IP, or you got a different IP or whatever, and ban you, they will ban you for using the same tactics that you did before you were suspended.
What does the Navy have to do with clones? If you're talking about the navel, clones have them too.
What does the Navy have to do with clones? If you're talking about the navel, clones have them too. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
are you serious? I allways thought they wouldn't have one....I guess if they are a Genetic duplicate of someone who did have a belly button then they would to... but do they use it when there being... I dunno what it is clones do
What does the Navy have to do with clones? If you're talking about the navel, clones have them too. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
are you serious? I allways thought they wouldn't have one....I guess if they are a Genetic duplicate of someone who did have a belly button then they would to... but do they use it when there being... I dunno what it is clones do <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
A belly button doesn't have much to do with genetics. Any human born from a pregnant women (like a clone would be) will have a navel.
What does the Navy have to do with clones? If you're talking about the navel, clones have them too. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
are you serious? I allways thought they wouldn't have one....I guess if they are a Genetic duplicate of someone who did have a belly button then they would to... but do they use it when there being... I dunno what it is clones do <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow... I think my ability to handle nonsense has been overloaded.
What does the Navy have to do with clones? If you're talking about the navel, clones have them too. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
are you serious? I allways thought they wouldn't have one....I guess if they are a Genetic duplicate of someone who did have a belly button then they would to... but do they use it when there being... I dunno what it is clones do <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A belly button doesn't have much to do with genetics. Any human born from a pregnant women (like a clone would be) will have a navel. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
whoa whoa whoa.... clones come from Wombs? I thought they were grown in test tubes.
forgive me for my ignorance the only knowledge I have from clones comes from two bad sources (Video Games and Movies) so I don't really know much about it
What does the Navy have to do with clones? If you're talking about the navel, clones have them too. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
are you serious? I allways thought they wouldn't have one....I guess if they are a Genetic duplicate of someone who did have a belly button then they would to... but do they use it when there being... I dunno what it is clones do <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A belly button doesn't have much to do with genetics. Any human born from a pregnant women (like a clone would be) will have a navel. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
whoa whoa whoa.... clones come from Wombs? I thought they were grown in test tubes.
forgive me for my ignorance the only knowledge I have from clones comes from two bad sources (Video Games and Movies) so I don't really know much about it <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Clones are the same as you and me. The only difference is that their DNA is determined by the DNA of their "parent," while our DNA is a combination of the DNA of our mothers and fathers. See:
<a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolly_the_sheep' target='_blank'>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolly_the_sheep</a>
You'll need a small fortune. Actually, a large fortune. Actually, you have a better chance of buying Saudi Arabia. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Let's stop harassing him about being AvengerX. They were both manufactured in the same way, so there are bound to be similarities. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Quite. It's rather intriguing how people often so devoted to facts and only proven facts are so adamant that he and Avenger are one and the same. Like Skulkbait said, the mods can check the IPs if they want to, but I would really stop hounding him about it, because you all are going to look mighty silly if they turn out to be different people. I gave this quote to AvengerX once before: "Make sure your words are soft and gentle today, because tomorrow you may have to eat them."
<!--QuoteBegin-Cyndane+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cyndane)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Sky: You are right, this thread has offically gone down the hole because of AvengerX and I do hope he is quite thourghly banned, again, this time permantely<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now wait a minute, I'm right about a lot of things (/tooting own horn <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) but I never said that I disapproved of Ninja's discussion forum etiquette. He's being quite civil, really. And while I was definitely glad to see Avenger go (I was about ready to make a topic dedicated to calling for said ban after the evolution thread), I definitely do not want a potentially completely new member banned because of a misunderstanding.
Actually, I think Ninja's presence has dug this thread out of stagnation. The back-and-forth between you and KFDM and Legionaired really wasn't getting anywhere.
And yes I noticed the "for reals". However, maybe that's common slang where he lives. It would hardly be uncommon for two forumites to live relatively close to each other.
It would if one lived in Utah and the other claims to live in California. Though Ninja did claim to have lived in Utah previously, perhaps its Utah youth's failed attempt at sounding cool.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Actually, I think Ninja's presence has dug this thread out of stagnation.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Better stagnation then what we had for the last hour or so here. I'd much rather see reasonable arguments with less frequency then be continuosly bombarded by nonsense.
But I digress.
Anyway, I just worked for 6 hours, so I'll only fire a few objections off from the hip here. I don't expect it to be the be-all and end all here, but meh. I'll be using a different translation than the one you posted, it'll be easyer for me to copy-paste it.
Italics are mine for all of the below.
[quote][QUOTE]
I am the beginning, the middle, and the end
[/QUOTE]
<b> BG 10:20 vs. Rev. 1:8 </b> (BG of course stands for Bhagavad-Gita)[/quote]
BG 10:20 I am the Self, O Gudakesa, seated in the hearts of all creatures. I am the beginning, the middle and the end of all beings.
<i>Stresses Krishna's claims of being one with all, note "seated in the hearts of all creatures"</i>
Rev1:8 8"I am (AA)the Alpha and the Omega," says the (AB)Lord God, "(AC)who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."
<i>Stresses Christ's claims of Lordship over all creation.</i>
Oneness != Lordship.
[quote][QUOTE]
Krishna's mission was to give directions to "the kingdom of God" , and he warned of "stumbling blocks" along the way [/QUOTE]
<b> BG 2:72 BG 3:34; 1 Cor. 1:23 ; Rev. 2:14 </b>
[/QUOTE]
Bg 2:71-72 : "A person who has given up all desires for sense gratification, who lives free from desires, who has given up all sense of proprietorship and is devoid of false ego--he alone can attain real peace.
That is the way of the spiritual and godly life, after attaining which a man is not bewildered. Being so situated, even at the hour of death, one can enter into the kingdom of God. "
<i>Krishna's directions to the kingdom of God (note the fact that although the english translations appear similar, both religions disagree entirely on what the kingdom of Heaven or the kingdom of God really is. Is it peace and freedom from individual existance as part of the Brahman-Atman, or is it personal and eternal fellowship with a personal creator God?)</i>
1 Corinthians 23but we preach [c](AV)Christ crucified, (AW)to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles (AX)foolishness,
24but to those who are (AY)the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ (AZ)the power of God and (BA)the wisdom of God.
<i>Evidenced by the intellectual contempt a lot of people here hold for Christians, and the reactions of a lot of Christians to unbelief. It's not a copied statement, and it's an astute observation. (By Paul, by the way, not by Jesus.)</i>
[quote]<b> BG 2:11 vs Matt. 8:22 </b>
[QUOTE]
Krishna's saying, "I envy no man, nor am I partial to anyone; I am equal to all" is a lot like the idea that God is no respecter of persons
[/QUOTE][/quote[
BG 2:11ff The Blessed Lord said: While speaking learned words, you are mourning for what is not worthy of grief. Those who are wise lament neither for the living nor the dead.
Chapter 2, Verse 12.
Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.
Chapter 2, Verse 13.
As the embodied soul continuously passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. A self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change.
<i>Don't mourn death because of reincarnation.</i>
Matthew 8:22 <i><a href='http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=Matt%209:9;%20Mark%202:14;%20Luke%209:59,%2060;%20John%201:43;%2021:19&version=49' target='_blank'>Linkeh.</a> The calling of his disciples in similar fashions. Note the cross-reference to Luke; Jesus told Philip that Philip's purpose wasn't to mourn his father's death, but to follow Him.</i>
[quote]
<b> BG 9:29 vs Rom. 2:11 & Matt. 6:45 </b>
[QUOTE]
And "one who is equal to friends and enemies... is very dear to me" is reminiscent of "love your enemies"
[/QUOTE][/quote]
BG 9:29 : I envy no one, nor am I partial to anyone. I am equal to all. But whoever renders service unto Me in devotion is a friend, is in Me, and I am also a friend to him.
<i>"I am fair, I look at people only how they treat me." Universal truism for good living: or, if you rather, universal truism saying "don't be a bigoted bastard." Good advice.</i>
Matthew 6 only has 34 verses. You probably meant Matthew 5:43ff
43“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[h] and hate your enemy.’ 44But I tell you: Love your enemies<i> and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
[i]Do good to your enemies to glorify God. Nowhere is the equality of God's acceptance mentioned here (though it certainly is talked about later.)</i>
[QUOTE]
Krishna also said that "by human calculation, a thousand ages taken together is the duration of Brahma's one day" , which is very similar too.
[/QUOTE]
BG 8:17ff - By human calculation, a thousand ages taken together is the duration of Brahma's one day. And such also is the duration of his night.
Chapter 8, Verse 18.
When Brahma's day is manifest, this multitude of living entities comes into being, and at the arrival of Brahma's night they are all annihilated.
Chapter 8, Verse 19.
Again and again the day comes, and this host of beings is active; and again the night falls, O Partha, and they are helplessly dissolved.
Chapter 8, Verse 20.
Yet there is another nature, which is eternal and is transcendental to this manifested and unmanifested matter. It is supreme and is never annihilated. When all in this world is annihilated, that part remains as it is.
<i>IE: Brahma is eternal, and this world happens many many times over.</i>
1 Peter 3:8-9 8But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
<i>This is only happening for the first time, and don't lose heart when you think God is being slow, because God has good reasons for taking His time: Saving people.</i>
I'm sure you yourself could dig through and find pages and pages of stuff like this, and I could show time and time again that they are talking at cross purposes. Take the whole piece of text in context, and you'll see that the meanings behind the translations are incredibly different.
What I keeped getting very irked about is this:
[quote]I want you to prove that the Bible is older then the Bhagavad-Gita. That is all I am asking. Keep in mind the New Testament in the bible was written around 100AD give for take 50 years. The Bhagavad-Gita was written around 2000-1800 BCE (Obviously this isn't the time scale they used so I made it simplier to convert it to the current calendar year.)[/quote]
Well, if they speak at entirely different purposes, drawing off entirely different points of view, and preach entirely different worldviews, it doesn't matter which one came first, because they would be totally different.
The only similarity is that they both hold there is a diety, but they disagree even as to what that diety is! Is He the personal, loving, just God of Christianity, or is it the impersonal, un-moved mover of the Hindu faith, Brahma? It, or he, certainly cannot be both.
EDIT: The forum tags killed my post and all I got was this lousy edit. I'm sure you can pick your way through it, so I'm just going to get some well-needed sleep.
That, or sell some sets of Shining Silvered Armor. I hate Blizzard, like a heroin addict that hates his dealer, but still finds himself reaching time and time again for his fix.
Tell me, do I need a girlfriend?
~Lego
And yes I noticed the "for reals". However, maybe that's common slang where he lives. It would hardly be uncommon for two forumites to live relatively close to each other. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm only quoting this because I some what agree. However, it may have been stagnated but only because I am still awaiting a response from a certain someone.
While it may not be uncommon for two forumites to live close to each other. Depending upon location in US/UK/Aussieland/etc. I find it very hard to believe people have exactly the same views and speak exactly the same.
I guess I'm just more of a suspicious person about some people. That is all.
Oh yes, just to stop you from tooting your own horn, you are not right on a lot of things. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
J/King of course. Well, kinda. Teehee.
*edit* Wow.. that post was kinda hard to read... after I get some sleep I'll try again tomorrow. Not sure why the forum breaks quotes like that.
I would recommend a girlfriend... but then women are evil so.. nevermind, well at least according to the bible. (Sorry had to put that one in there.) :-)
I don't own Wow, so there really isn't anything I can really do about that drug.
*edit 2* I also disagree with how you have those compared, lets compare them using directly translated from hebrew to english, because I am doing directly from hindu to english. Which is why a lot of the verses sound like engrish.
I found this link through wikipedia:
<a href='http://www.ece.lsu.edu/kak/akhena.pdf' target='_blank'>http://www.ece.lsu.edu/kak/akhena.pdf</a>
Here's a snippet of the conclusion:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There are important lessons to be drawn from the study of Akhenaten and
his hymn to Aten. Scholars see in Akhenaten the beginning of the Judaic
monotheistic tradition. Our examination of the facts shows that it might,
equally plausibly, be a retelling of the improperly understood ideas, or ideas
modi¯ed by the prevailing ones in their new land, in the journey toWest Asia
by the Mitannis. We are basing our conclusions not only on the connection
to the Mitanni through Akhenaten's wife but also on the pervasiveness of the
Vedic concepts in West Asia as in the notion of 33 gods, the use of the disk
to represent the sun exactly as is done in Vedic ritual, and the conception of
the sun who superintends personal destiny which is perhaps the central idea
of Vedic thought. We have also alluded to the similarity between the Vedic
Yahv¶ah. and the Hebrew Yahweh and between other gods. These parallels are
sign¯cant enough to demand a thorough investigation of the 2nd millennium
BC connections between India and the West.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It starts to pick up on similarities between JudeoChristian religions and other religions around page 13, specifically concerning the similarities of Psalm 104 in the OT and the Hymn to Aten. It's an interesting read, but I'm not much of a biblical scholar.
It doesn't matter how biased it is, as long as its arguments are good.
When have I called an encyclopedia biased? You're putting words in my mouth and trying to pull cheap shots. Stop.
I think I must quote this to emphasize the point. I feel that you guys have deceived yourselves to the point where you will believe anything no matter how absurd it is. I challenge every one of you to do an objective study of the Bible. It's not the number one best seller of time for no reason. It hasn't been translated to thousands of languages for no reason. It's not the most controversial book for no reason. People hate the truths that are contained in it to the point where they abandoned all logic and reason.
Feel free to flame on. The ones claiming Christians follow a blind faith, and the ones who preach evolution as fact are the very same ones who don't have a clue of the message contained in the Bible. You are so blinded by your biases that you refuse to even consider any of the sources we post. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
As someone who was brought up in a religious environment, was a devout catholic for about five years and as someone who used to go to around 3 hours of voluntary mass, at 5:30am every week, I take objection to that KFDM.
My issues with religion and god stem from observation and experience, not preconceptions. My conclusion that, if God exists, he certainly isn't having anything to do with us, is drawn from a number of sources. Those sources included a decade of RI (Religious Instruction), a complete readthrough of the bible (with accompanying discussions) and the study of history, politics and science, both independently and as part of my ridiculously extensive education.
I think I must quote this to emphasize the point. I feel that you guys have deceived yourselves to the point where you will believe anything no matter how absurd it is. I challenge every one of you to do an objective study of the Bible. It's not the number one best seller of time for no reason. It hasn't been translated to thousands of languages for no reason. It's not the most controversial book for no reason. People hate the truths that are contained in it to the point where they abandoned all logic and reason.
Feel free to flame on. The ones claiming Christians follow a blind faith, and the ones who preach evolution as fact are the very same ones who don't have a clue of the message contained in the Bible. You are so blinded by your biases that you refuse to even consider any of the sources we post. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As someone who was brought up in a religious environment, was a devout catholic for about five years and as someone who used to go to around 3 hours of voluntary mass, at 5:30am every week, I take objection to that KFDM.
My issues with religion and god stem from observation and experience, not preconceptions. My conclusion that, if God exists, he certainly isn't having anything to do with us, is drawn from a number of sources. Those sources included a decade of RI (Religious Instruction), a complete readthrough of the bible (with accompanying discussions) and the study of history, politics and science, both independently and as part of my ridiculously extensive education. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, I, for one, would like to hear more from you. What were the big issues that turned you away from Catholicism? Expand, pretty please. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
~ DarkATi
You're right. My origins are so important to me that they limit what I can do.
However, I don't think God is so cool. I'm going to believe that I'm descended from a really awesome dragon, instead.
Your sources, as far as anything scientific are concerned, are garbage and have been thoroughly delt with in EVERY previous debate. The likes of AiG is NOT a valid scientific source, unless we're going to be citing tabloid newspapers and similar for proof of things like big foot and aliens.
When have I called an encyclopedia biased? You're putting words in my mouth and trying to pull cheap shots. Stop. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If I was referring directly to you legionaired I would have stated as such.
Choose to disbelieve evolution if you want, but a vast majority of scientists accept it, and it has huge amounts of positive evidence. You can deny this until you're blue in the face it won't do you any good...
Edit: Please at least attempt to show me why evolution is wrong before you call me closed minded.