Why Not To Sell Illegal Guns In Iraq

CplDavisCplDavis I hunt the arctic Snonos Join Date: 2003-01-09 Member: 12097Members
<div class="IPBDescription">gun camera vid.</div> Interesting video of why being an illegal arms dealer in Iraq is a bad idea.

Black and White gun camera footage from an AH-64 Apache gunship.

3 arms dealers,1 tractor, and 2 trucks vs 100 rounds of .30mm cannon. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->

Download from the top link. its 12 mb. Need divx.



WARNING: GRAPHIC IMAGES
<a href='http://www.contour.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=picsvids&Number=503369&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=2&fpart=1' target='_blank'>http://www.contour.org/ubbthreads/showflat...b=5&o=2&fpart=1</a>
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Comments

  • DubersDubers Pet Shop Boy Edinburgh, UK Join Date: 2002-07-25 Member: 998Members
    Mods > this thread!
  • LastLast Join Date: 2003-10-06 Member: 21463Members
    that was amazing... seeing the guy roll out injured...

    how do we know this is authentic? it can't be hard to stage this and add some effects etc.
  • CplDavisCplDavis I hunt the arctic Snonos Join Date: 2003-01-09 Member: 12097Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--DuBERS+Jan 16 2004, 12:15 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DuBERS @ Jan 16 2004, 12:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Mods > this thread! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    well if it is wrong sorry i apollogise, I see a mod here now if he wants to remove it i wont complain.
  • DubersDubers Pet Shop Boy Edinburgh, UK Join Date: 2002-07-25 Member: 998Members
    That was absolutly brutal. War is vile it really is.
  • TupacforeverTupacforever Join Date: 2003-08-05 Member: 19027Members
  • DubersDubers Pet Shop Boy Edinburgh, UK Join Date: 2002-07-25 Member: 998Members
    So what happened to innocent till proven guilty?
  • TupacforeverTupacforever Join Date: 2003-08-05 Member: 19027Members
    well they had guns and they were in iraq i dont think citizens there are allowed guns right now in time of war
  • Marik_SteeleMarik_Steele To rule in hell... Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9466Members
    edited January 2004
    Just downloaded and saw the video. The less-than-black-and-white footage makes it less violent than half the stuff you see in newspapers, TIME magazine, or daily TV news, so I can't remove the link based on violence level.

    If it is authentic, then it's a good example of "Your job is to ask your superiors whether to fire or not, then follow that order." It's definitely a video that leaves you thinking about it for awhile.

    [edit]I just remembered that one of the theorized reasons Saddam Hussein's sons weren't found alive: the forces in the area surrounding them may have spent too much time "softening up the target." Makes you wonder what that means.
  • DubersDubers Pet Shop Boy Edinburgh, UK Join Date: 2002-07-25 Member: 998Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Tupacforever+Jan 16 2004, 05:31 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tupacforever @ Jan 16 2004, 05:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> well they had guns and they were in iraq i dont think citizens there are allowed guns right now in time of war <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    How could they have possibly known for sure? Those guys could have been farmers for all they knew.
  • TupacforeverTupacforever Join Date: 2003-08-05 Member: 19027Members
    welll, yah right i dunno what to think of it btw what was that big thing the 2nd person died on?
  • DubersDubers Pet Shop Boy Edinburgh, UK Join Date: 2002-07-25 Member: 998Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Tupacforever+Jan 16 2004, 05:38 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tupacforever @ Jan 16 2004, 05:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> welll, yah right i dunno what to think of it btw what was that big thing the 2nd person died on? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    It was a tractor e.g. what farmers drive around on.
  • CplDavisCplDavis I hunt the arctic Snonos Join Date: 2003-01-09 Member: 12097Members
    edited January 2004
    <!--QuoteBegin--DuBERS+Jan 16 2004, 12:34 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DuBERS @ Jan 16 2004, 12:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Tupacforever+Jan 16 2004, 05:31 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tupacforever @ Jan 16 2004, 05:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> well they had guns and they were in iraq i dont think citizens there are allowed guns right now in time of war <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    How could they have possibly known for sure? Those guys could have been farmers for all they knew. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I dont think anyone is defending the US army for what they did but... I guess they knew it was a rocket launcher.

    I saw this vid somewhere else too, At the time knew that arms dealers were doing buessiness in the area and then when the guy goes and dumps an RPG in the field I guess that unfortuantly doomed these guys.

    People with weapons with no offical army uniform makes them "partisan fighters" in US policy. These type of "unoffical combatants" dont get the same rights as formal soldiers unfortunatly, Ie, capture and then trials etc.


    technically civilian partisan fighers can be shot on site. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • DubersDubers Pet Shop Boy Edinburgh, UK Join Date: 2002-07-25 Member: 998Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Cpl.Davis+Jan 16 2004, 05:42 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cpl.Davis @ Jan 16 2004, 05:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--DuBERS+Jan 16 2004, 12:34 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DuBERS @ Jan 16 2004, 12:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Tupacforever+Jan 16 2004, 05:31 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tupacforever @ Jan 16 2004, 05:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> well they had guns and they were in iraq i dont think citizens there are allowed guns right now in time of war <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    How could they have possibly known for sure? Those guys could have been farmers for all they knew. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I dont think anyone is defending the US army for what they did but... I guess they knew it was a rocket launcher.

    I saw this vid somewhere else too, At the time knew that arms dealers were doing buessiness in the area and then when the guy goes and dumps an RPG in the field I guess that unfortuantly doomed these guys.

    People with weapons with no offical army uniform makes them "partisan fighters" in US policy. These type of "unoffical combatants" dont get the same rights as formal soldiers unfortunatly, Ie, capture and then trials etc.


    technically civilian partisan fighers can be shot on site. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    My point is how could they have known what it was unless they were standing next to the guy looking at it? It may have been a tractor part.
  • LikuLiku I, am the Somberlain. Join Date: 2003-01-10 Member: 12128Members
  • MulletMullet Join Date: 2003-04-28 Member: 15910Members, Constellation
    edited January 2004
    <!--QuoteBegin--DuBERS+Jan 15 2004, 10:34 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DuBERS @ Jan 15 2004, 10:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Tupacforever+Jan 16 2004, 05:31 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tupacforever @ Jan 16 2004, 05:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> well they had guns and they were in iraq i dont think citizens there are allowed guns right now in time of war <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    How could they have possibly known for sure? Those guys could have been farmers for all they knew. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Well if you saw Iraqi's messin around with an object which looked like a gun, would you fire on them or would you just stand there like an idiot?

    I say GG U.S. troops.
  • CplDavisCplDavis I hunt the arctic Snonos Join Date: 2003-01-09 Member: 12097Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--DuBERS+Jan 16 2004, 12:44 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DuBERS @ Jan 16 2004, 12:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
    My point is how could they have known what it was unless they were standing next to the guy looking at it? It may have been a tractor part. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    yes yes good point, very good point,

    but who knows, we cant tell from just this vid alone for either way. maybe there were other witnesses closer by, or the Apache was following them or they had reports a known deal was gonna take place there.

    or maybe it was just a tractor part.
    bleh, war sucks.
  • UZiUZi Eight inches of C4 between the legs. Join Date: 2003-02-20 Member: 13767Members
    Hah. Chunks of him are laying on the groud you can see in the thermal.
  • DubersDubers Pet Shop Boy Edinburgh, UK Join Date: 2002-07-25 Member: 998Members
    Can we just end this thread now please. It's pretty grotesqe to be honest those guys were somebodys fathers or brothers so have a little respect and just imagine if it was a member of your family who had been shot to pices. I mean they cant even have the dignity of a proper burial so forwhatever reason they were killed, terrorist or not, they have payed their debt to humanity for whatever crimes they commited.
  • TupacforeverTupacforever Join Date: 2003-08-05 Member: 19027Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--DuBERS+Jan 16 2004, 12:40 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DuBERS @ Jan 16 2004, 12:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Tupacforever+Jan 16 2004, 05:38 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tupacforever @ Jan 16 2004, 05:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> welll, yah right i dunno what to think of it btw what was that big thing the 2nd person died on? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    It was a tractor e.g. what farmers drive around on. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    ah thanks wasnt wearing my glasses couldnt see well
  • criticaIcriticaI Join Date: 2003-04-07 Member: 15269Banned, Constellation
    Saw it, doesn't look that graphic in the black and white. I thought it looked like they showed a good deal of judgement, too.
  • MulletMullet Join Date: 2003-04-28 Member: 15910Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--DuBERS+Jan 15 2004, 11:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DuBERS @ Jan 15 2004, 11:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Can we just end this thread now please. It's pretty grotesqe to be honest those guys were somebodys fathers or brothers so have a little respect and just imagine if it was a member of your family who had been shot to pices. I mean they cant even have the dignity of a proper burial so forwhatever reason they were killed, terrorist or not, they have payed their debt to humanity for whatever crimes they commited. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Hmmm...maybe it's just me but I honestly could care less how a terrorist died.
  • GwahirGwahir Join Date: 2002-04-24 Member: 513Members, Constellation
    They're still humans. I'm not against the war, but I don't pretend that death isn't meaningful either.
  • DiscoZombieDiscoZombie Join Date: 2003-08-05 Member: 18951Members
    I don't know what chills me more... trained soldiers' indifference/boarderline bloodlust in mowing down human beings from afar, or that same indifference and bloodlust in regular citizens in these forums... I always have to refer to <a href='http://www.iraqbodycount.net/bodycount.htm' target='_blank'>the Iraq body count</a>, and ask how many of those civilians deserved to die... and ask people to compare those numbers to the numbers who died in the world trade center destruction, which had nothing to do with iraq... and ask people who the biggest terrorists are...
  • XiileXiile Join Date: 2003-02-22 Member: 13818Members
    edited January 2004
    People, they're <b>terrorists.</b> Remember September 11th? Yep, terrorists. And you know what? They didn't give two ****s about our lives. They were trying to smuggle rocket launchers to even kill more. They completely deserved that IMO.
  • UZiUZi Eight inches of C4 between the legs. Join Date: 2003-02-20 Member: 13767Members
    You could tell he was trying to ditch the Rocket Launcher.
  • SoulSkorpionSoulSkorpion Join Date: 2002-04-12 Member: 423Members
    edited January 2004
    I haven't seen the video (and I'm not going to), and that might have something to do with my I can't understand what's wrong with this action. How did they know he was an arms dealer? More than likely because of an SAS or Special Forces man who spotted him. What, you think these choppers are just flying around Iraq lazily looking for cows to shoot up?

    Second, this business about this guy's "crimes" or not is crap. This is warfare. You don't prosecute the enemy - you kill them. Yes, it's a bit of a grey area when the enemy are civilian fanatics, terrorists, gun runners etc. rather than a regular army.

    Third, soldiers' callousness towards the enemy is a coping mechanism. War is not nice. "indifference/boarderline bloodlust in mowing down human beings from afar" maybe, but supposed indifference is because it's not easy to take life. This attitude by soldiers taken to cope with what they're actually doing is very well documented.

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->and ask how many of those civilians deserved to die... and ask people to compare those numbers to the numbers who died in the world trade center destruction, which had nothing to do with iraq... and ask people who the biggest terrorists are<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Comments like this make me <b>extremely</b> angry. In effect, you're equating a DELIBERATE attack on civillians - noncombatants - with military actions in which civilians are unfortunately and accidentally killed. That's nothing short of disgusting. You're effectively suggesting that US forces are deliberately targeting civilians. Yes, civilian deaths are a tragedy. Unfortunately, in warfare such tragedies are inevitable. There's a big f***ing difference between going after terrorists\fanatics\guerillas and civillians getting caught in the crossfire, and setting out to bomb a civillian building for no other purpose than to maim and kill innocent people.

    The "biggest terrorists", as you put it, are those who set out to murder as many innocent civilians as they can -people who have NOTHING to do with them - to incite fear, to gain publicity for their cause, and out of ideological hatred.
  • SwiftspearSwiftspear Custim tital Join Date: 2003-10-29 Member: 22097Members
    How the hell do you know thier terrorists? They could have been any random group of guys digging up irragation pipes. Who the hell runs out into a field and tosses a rocket launcher on the ground? Even if those guys were terrorists, you trust some moron in a couple thosand feet up who can't see **** all to make the dicision, judge jury and executioner? Not everyone in Iraq is a terrorist, in fact the terrorists are the VAST minoraty.

    People wonder why muslims would fly airplanes into the world trade center. Well if my father and brother got brutally killed while working the field one day, and the canadian government told the americans did it, you'd just see how many people I would get through before they took me down (in gunfire or worse im sure). Your stupid moron government has made these people furious at your contry, they don't know anything about you, they just hate you, the same way the allies soldiers hated the nazis in WWII. They don't care who they kill, they just want you to know what you did to them. They live in the middle east for god sakes, these arn't the most educated people, they have no idea who is really to blame. Input some hiltler like nut (angered and battle hardend to the tee) to lead them and your end result is pretty obvious. No one deserves to die, not the terrorists to say the least, expecially not the ones who are planning stuff but haven't actually done anything yet. They are not some lunitic force of evil, get off your damn high horse.
  • LastLast Join Date: 2003-10-06 Member: 21463Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Mullet+Jan 15 2004, 10:49 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mullet @ Jan 15 2004, 10:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--DuBERS+Jan 15 2004, 11:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DuBERS @ Jan 15 2004, 11:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Can we just end this thread now please. It's pretty grotesqe to be honest those guys were somebodys fathers or brothers so have a little respect and just imagine if it was a member of your family who had been shot to pices. I mean they cant even have the dignity of a proper burial so forwhatever reason they were killed, terrorist or not, they have payed their debt to humanity for whatever crimes they commited. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Hmmm...maybe it's just me but I honestly could care less how a terrorist died. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    that's absurd. No human can state that watching that video did not effect them emotionally in some way. Those are real people. They died. Those are american soldiers. They killed.

    I hate terrorists as much as the next guy, but please, uncontrolled hate can only lead to worse violence. Even in the most hateful of you, there must be some sign of compassion for these men, isn't there?
  • SwiftspearSwiftspear Custim tital Join Date: 2003-10-29 Member: 22097Members
    soul scorpian, don't talk without seeing, in the video there is an ingured guy rolling around on the ground, the one gunner is asking if he can blow up the truck, and the other guys like "woh, theres a guy still alive down there, just above the truck, waste him" the way they talk they might have well been playing counterstrike. No one shot at the helicopter, the thing the guy ran out into the field with could have been anything, even if there was prior evidence that this was an arms deal, the way they handled this was sickening, the men they shot and killed were clearly not soldiers in some opposing army, more along the lines of comon thugs, or gang members, at worst. Just because your at war with someone country, doens't give you the moral grounds to slaugter the criminals they arn't taking care of.
  • SwiftspearSwiftspear Custim tital Join Date: 2003-10-29 Member: 22097Members
    they shot the hell out of some guys tractor who pulled up at random, for all they know he was there telling the other guys to get out of his field.
This discussion has been closed.