<!--quoteo(post=1844008:date=May 4 2011, 09:44 AM:name=ZycaR)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ZycaR @ May 4 2011, 09:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1844008"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Updated (today's last :) ) <a href="http://www.openprocessing.org/visuals/?visualID=28187" target="_blank">http://www.openprocessing.org/visuals/?visualID=28187</a> - patches are disconnected when are too far away from original patches - disconnected patches will die (.. also first one in new patch) - implemented dying of "vines" :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pretty good system. Should make it so if you're in range the node auto-connects to the "main" vine instead of dying off right next to it.
Gorges should be able to cough up the DI pustules and place them as well as the comm. It's tedious as the alien commander (which is still a stone-stupid idea to have in the first place) to have to sit there and wait and wait and wait for your energy to come back so you can finally spread some infestation and take over a harvester. It promotes teamwork to tell the gorge "hey man, spread the DI from this hive to that nozzle". Now you just ACTUALLY commanded someone and the Gorge ACTUALLY has something important to do! Amazing!
Very cool ZycaR! We all just huddled around Cory's computer to have a look.
It would be cool if you could add a top-down image of an NS2 map in the background. Also, I think the green infestation circles would be quite a bit smaller and the infestation around the "spines" would be a bit bigger in our proposed model.
<!--quoteo(post=1844125:date=May 4 2011, 05:42 PM:name=ZycaR)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ZycaR @ May 4 2011, 05:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1844125"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Flayra: here is version with smaller infestation patch and little wider "tentacles" :) and of course with image background. I hope you enjoy it :)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Removed additional tech point requirement for teching up. Now T2/T3 can happen with 1 base. Details: <a href="http://www.tinyurl.com/ns2design" target="_blank">http://www.tinyurl.com/ns2design</a> #f<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hrmm... Interesting... I think I like this idea.
The side that chooses to expand still has the massive resource advantage, and the safety-net provided by redundancy... But patrolling a massive territory in a low-population game is difficult for either team, so allowing smaller bases in smaller games may make things easier.
Eliminating the need for tech points will encourage marines to simply turtle in early game. Sadly, this is not very different from current gameplay ,since CCs simply are dropped and recycled.
If you are going to do this, <b>marine upgrades should be tied to their structures</b>. For example, you can only buy FTs from those armories that have been individually upgraded. So, if an alien takes out an advanced armory the marine would have to go find another advanced armory or begin the process of upgrading a dropped replacement.
Benefits: - This will also eliminate early advance weapon purchases from armories that are literally dropped in the front line - It would empathize marines protecting valuable assets - It would encourage marines to establish bases and upgrade as they push forward - It would also encourage marines to protect their more advanced weapons.
I do not what to see the NS2 try to make itself quicker. I spoke with several NS1 players in a game last night and we agreed that a good NS match should be long. They commented that NS1 gameplay was sacrificed when attempts were made to promote 20min games and they liked the direction that NS2 was taking. I am not sure what they are referring to since I never played NS1. Just relaying the conversation.
Omg rejoice! so happy they are going down this path :D
Now just removed the tech point all together for marines just leave them in for aliens and we are back to NS1 :D
Maybe rename them to hive points or something and it would be great..
Why not just use the NS1 system where each hive gives you some passive armour/health bonuses and of course each extra hive is an extra location you can telaport to not to mention an easier way to spread infestation and a redundancy incase you loose a hive..
You don't need to change the formula to much NS1 was nearly perfect!
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Removed additional tech point requirement for teching up. Now T2/T3 can happen with 1 base. Details: <a href="http://www.tinyurl.com/ns2design" target="_blank">http://www.tinyurl.com/ns2design</a> #f<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't really like this at all. We have tons of maps designed around tech points as a result of a game design around tech points, and now it's gone poof?
Well, that aside, it really bugs me for another reason. The marines being able to do it all from one base is OK. That was normal in NS1 and is technically feasible in nearly any RTS; I don't mind the concept. However, aliens have ALWAYS been about expanding to tech up, and getting rid of that rubs me the wrong way.
I don't like the idea of just "build a whip to unlock lerk" form of unlocking, because it would be crazy easy to unlock everything really fast. Pop a crag, whip, and shift in the back corner of your base and all of a sudden you have fades facerolling the marines early in the game. (or if not fades, lerks gassing MS way too early) So there needs to be some kind of limit. Is there an order you have to build to get these chambers? Honestly, I don't like that idea. Being able to pick the chamber for the situation is a key key alien playstyle feature. That means we need to come up with some other form of limit.
Sure, the aliens could come back to expansion-based teching, but then we're very close to being NS1 all over again, and then what was the point of changing the game to begin with?
Another option might be based on a percentage of the map covered in linked DI. Don't force the hives to expand, but make them bolster the expansion. Make the players *want* to make hives rather than forcing them to. If you do this, however, the requirements to put up a new hive have to come way down. Marines will focus on denying alien expansion while they tech up themselves, so aliens need to have that advantage getting out there. It's close to NS1 again in the end, but it changes things a little bit. Gorges will have tons to do, needing to keep everything connected in interesting ways. It would be great to see crags be able to make small sustained patches of DI, to help bolster thin "bridges" of the stuff in vulnerable areas. Don't make them as powerful as a hive, but make them the core of small bases that the aliens have to defend.
QuovatisTeam InversionJoin Date: 2010-01-26Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited May 2011
I STRONGLY disagree with removing the tech point requirement. In fact, you should be moving the opposite direction: remove upgrading and only have it dependent on the number of tech points for upgrades. It takes skill to control territory and hold on to tech. If you remove the tech point requirement, there is less skill required as all you have to do is just hold a single techpoint for the whole game. I'm sorry, but this has got to be the worst decision on the game yet.
edit: I do like the alien lifeforms being tied to structures, but think the fade should stay as a tier 2 tech.
How about alternative structures that can be built on tech points?
A relatively cheaper expansion node that can be placed on a tech point if you're not sure that you'll be able to defend it? If you later fortify the room, you can recycle the node and build a full hive/CC on that spot.
I'm thinking something similar to a phase gate for marines, and something similar to a super-powered pustule for aliens.
Hrmm... Hadn't considered it as a denial tactic... But yeah, sneaking a cheap and powerful fountain of DI into marine expansion early on could be quite bad for the game. Fair point.
I was trying to think of some way to introduce a more variable risk/reward decision. A new hive/CC is a big risk with a big reward. Allowing the option of a smaller risk and smaller reward might add more depth if done correctly.
Hmm I think decoupling nodes from tech is a good idea for marines certainly, they aren't really equipped to defend expansions until they have already teched up. They'll need phase gates and jetpacks to manage it on most maps I think.
However aliens I think should be encouraged to expand, but on the other hand they sort of are encouraged to expand anyway, the infestation mechanic is important and because hives come with built in spawns and health regen, placing one is a good idea anyway. So I think the change is a good one.
With nodes no longer being neccesary for teching, it could be worth looking into other uses for them, as mentioned above you could add in new structures to be placed on nodes. For marines I'm thinking maybe an armed command station? Except it wouldn't be a command station, no chair controls or anything just a tech point lockdown with a turret on it and IP placement nearby, would allow marines to lock down an area a bit better, as they currently have difficulty with it. Or possibly a chair with a built in phase gate, something to help with marine mobility by easing the pressure on them moving around or adding better ways to move around.
I think that's the main issue really, it's hard to defend multiple expansions as marines, it's hard to even defend marine expansion in tram and it's right next door. If you can address that I think it'll be an excellent change.
Evil_bOb1Join Date: 2002-07-13Member: 938Members, Squad Five Blue
edited May 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1844366:date=May 5 2011, 09:14 PM:name=Quovatis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quovatis @ May 5 2011, 09:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1844366"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I STRONGLY disagree with removing the tech point requirement. In fact, you should be moving the opposite direction: remove upgrading and only have it dependent on the number of tech points for upgrades. It takes skill to control territory and hold on to tech. If you remove the tech point requirement, there is less skill required as all you have to do is just hold a single techpoint for the whole game. I'm sorry, but this has got to be the worst decision on the game yet.
edit: I do like the alien lifeforms being tied to structures, but think the fade should stay as a tier 2 tech.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm on the same front. This won't make the game more intuitive. It is just adding more requirements and particularities to the game. I really think you could remove any researching as it feels redundant to building. To access L2 tech require 2 tech points, l3 with 3 tech points. Lose your second techpoint and lose the acces to l2 and so on.
I know you guys are influenced by starcraft and chess but you are turning away from these.
In chess when you lose a piece it is gone, when you are losing you know there is no back door to keep the game going. What you see is what you get and each action has a purpose and a meaning. Theres no special effects.
It seams to me that you want to turn thing more like starcraft where you are not obliged to hold several bases for tech but for territorial control and resources. In NS2 it is different. This is because you have chosen to have techpoints. Be honest with what these are and make them tech points, points you need to hold to gain access to new tech. In SC building access new units and research upgrades the units and i think this is the way you have to go too.
Thinking back at what I'm typing and what charlie posted im not even sure I understand how you want to change things and even if my points are valid for what you want for NS2. And I have no idea how this will outcome but it seams some things got more complicated and some things disappeared.
Edit: Looked at chris's answer above and agree with that too.
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
The pustule thing is going to give the alien commander a top down world of goo game.
Kind of sad with the current way, it's less magical and dynamic when you're manually placing infestation. Is infestation still going to be able to cover walls and ceilings?
Are you going to make a damage type on the flamethrower that gives it an edge on infestation burning? If low tech marines can take it down wouldn't it make the flamethrower obsolete? Unless gorge webs are reintroduced?
As I understand it, infestation will keep growing regardless of what you do, but the alien commander can direct growth more quickly than it will grow alone.
I think the idea is the commander drops these things on the floor, and they grow out onto the walls and ceiling over time. Presumably also hives will infest the ceiling and walls around them so it will also grow out in all directions from them.
I like the NS1 model. Tying map control directly to unit power for the aliens is a good asymmetric mechanic. Command chairs as tech points never made any sense to me though. What if phase gates could only be built in the vicinity of a command chair? Then marines want to take expansions for map coverage just like they captured hives in NS1.
aeroripperJoin Date: 2005-02-25Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
edited May 2011
All of these ideas would need to be tested to see what's going to work the best, and which is the most fun. Once the engine/server hiccups are ironed out, hopefully we can test a number of these different designs iteratively over a couple of months to see which is working the best.
EDIT:
I also think aliens need a critical incentive to keep expanding to tech points, since their infestation pretty much suggests that aliens expand outward naturally.
<!--quoteo(post=1844390:date=May 6 2011, 02:20 PM:name=aeroripper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aeroripper @ May 6 2011, 02:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1844390"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I also think aliens need a critical incentive to keep expanding to tech points, since their infestation pretty much suggests that aliens expand outward naturally.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Having a new hive to provide a new "source" of DI, and thus making it far easier to keep a forward offensive base alive, seems pretty critical to me.
Having a fortified healing station right outside marine start would be much harder if you're relying on Gorges alone to keep those Hydras & Crags alive.
Just remember this style has been tried and test in NS1 for years and years NS1 itself went through a variation of different styles till they got to that point..
I don't see the point of moving away from all those years of game play testing this is the right choice.
Exactly. There is a tested game template in NS1, I don't understand this change on change for it's own sake. If the current model isn't working, don't add more features and tweaks, just move toward something you know works, the original.
If anything it will find the right mark between where you want to take the game and keeping balance with the original.
NS1 is by no means "perfect". For example, alien build order has a rigidly defined "optimal" route, and the lack of flexibility makes the branching tech tree more of an illusion than an actual decision tree.
I also like Chris's idea for alternative uses for Tech Points. It could be expanded on to some degree, limiting some Tech structures that you typically only build one of (Observatory, Robotics Factory, Prototype Laboratory assuming it's an isolate structure and not an Armory Module) to being built on a Tech Point, such that at each expansion you would gain access to a new Structure and as a result a new Tech Path. The IP, Armory, Turret, and Power Pack would obviously not be included.
Also, for everyone worrying about the structure requirements to unlock Alien Lifeforms; right now the interface indicates that these structures are still tied to the number of Hives, meaning with 1 Hive you can still only unlock the Gorge (with Crag) and Lerk (with Whip), at 2 Hives (at Tier 2) you can build Shifts (with unlock Fades), and at Hive/Tier 3 Shades. So these disaster scenarios being dreamed up won't exist, unless they've changed more than they claim.
I think without tech node requirements you'll get an interesting mix of NS and the original NS2.
Tech points are effectively a sort of ISO Standard Base Location. Much as in NS1 you would drop a CC/base wherever you want to operate out of or defend, so you can do in NS2. The major difference is that there are specific points for the hub of the base and so bases should be a bit more structured, you have the opportunty to put the node in a well covered part of a room and have the rest be more open, you also have the opportunity to make it quite exposed, essentially you can dictate the strengths and weaknesses of an area by tech point and resource node placement in relation to each other.
For marines I would say this is very similar to NS1, albeit a bit less prone to weird base placement, no more building main base in a tiny broom closet somewhere on the map, which I think is generally a good thing, if you want broom closet bases you can design a nice broom closet and put a tech point in it, but you can also prevent them if you don't want them in the map.
For aliens it's going to be quite different though, originally in NS1 aliens needed hives to unlock lifeforms, then that got dropped and I think hives were mostly to unlock new towers, but in any case aliens were quite hive-limited, and there were only three sites. The game was mostly about locking down hive locations. A good focussing factor but kind of a dull mechanic I find, as it means you fight in the same rooms every time.
With this model, it seems aliens will be more focussed on hives as a vehicle for infestation, which enforces map control, it is a little odd that aliens have the stronger map control option with infestation and destroyed nodes (which hinder marines, while powered nodes don't really do anything to aliens) in addition to being the most mobile team. I think the combination of those two might emphaise the difference between the sides. For marines I would expect the key to victory will become finding the right position to turtle up until they can tech up enough to expand, while aliens will focus on spreading map control and running around killing people.
Thinking about it, I really really think marines need a stronger form of map control. They need to be able to really lock off areas of the map, block infestation growth, alien movement, and defend their structures. They already have a defensive attack capability in the form of the ARC, which allows them to push without actually attacking, just by defending close to the enemy, I think they need more protection on their bases, because currently aliens can attack pretty unopposed unless you just have the one base.
Infestation being destroyable early on is important, as it gives marines reasons to strike out from their base in the early game, but they need other reasons. They need to be able to capture isolated res nodes, establish distant but linked bases (phase gates are going to be important here) and their structures need to be a lot tougher I think, either in terms of being more defensible with sentries, or more health, or having electrified resource towers, something to deal with the inability of marines to police a large area in the early game, and to free them from their bases and encourage striking out early on.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Without requiring tech points to tech up, what are the reasons to build command stations or hives? Reduces chance game will end when original CS/Hive is destroyed (NS2 has loss condition when you no longer have one) Increases amount/location to spawn (IP/eggs) Multiple commanders Relocation for marines Extra CS/Hive abilities (infestation, speed research, etc.) Forward healing point for aliens Second “island†for alien infestation<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
None of these are compelling reasons for marines to build tech points except for these possible CS abilities. I hope they're as useful as infestation.
<!--quoteo(post=1844419:date=May 6 2011, 12:36 AM:name=Stele007)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Stele007 @ May 6 2011, 12:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1844419"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->None of these are compelling reasons for marines to build tech points except for these possible CS abilities. I hope they're as useful as infestation.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I remember something called "Nano-defense Grid" on the progress list long ago, maybe that's something comparable to infestation (or to eliminate it).
Comments
- patches are disconnected when are too far away from original patches
- disconnected patches will die (.. also first one in new patch)
- implemented dying of "vines" :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pretty good system. Should make it so if you're in range the node auto-connects to the "main" vine instead of dying off right next to it.
Gorges should be able to cough up the DI pustules and place them as well as the comm. It's tedious as the alien commander (which is still a stone-stupid idea to have in the first place) to have to sit there and wait and wait and wait for your energy to come back so you can finally spread some infestation and take over a harvester. It promotes teamwork to tell the gorge "hey man, spread the DI from this hive to that nozzle". Now you just ACTUALLY commanded someone and the Gorge ACTUALLY has something important to do! Amazing!
It would be cool if you could add a top-down image of an NS2 map in the background. Also, I think the green infestation circles would be quite a bit smaller and the infestation around the "spines" would be a bit bigger in our proposed model.
and of course with image background. I hope you enjoy it :)
<a href="http://bit.ly/kJCsR7" target="_blank">http://bit.ly/kJCsR7</a>
and of course with image background. I hope you enjoy it :)
<a href="http://bit.ly/kJCsR7" target="_blank">http://bit.ly/kJCsR7</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The scales are a little off, but man that's some good work there. Hella nice job.
Hrmm... Interesting... I think I like this idea.
The side that chooses to expand still has the massive resource advantage, and the safety-net provided by redundancy... But patrolling a massive territory in a low-population game is difficult for either team, so allowing smaller bases in smaller games may make things easier.
Eliminating the need for tech points will encourage marines to simply turtle in early game. Sadly, this is not very different from current gameplay ,since CCs simply are dropped and recycled.
If you are going to do this, <b>marine upgrades should be tied to their structures</b>. For example, you can only buy FTs from those armories that have been individually upgraded. So, if an alien takes out an advanced armory the marine would have to go find another advanced armory or begin the process of upgrading a dropped replacement.
Benefits:
- This will also eliminate early advance weapon purchases from armories that are literally dropped in the front line
- It would empathize marines protecting valuable assets
- It would encourage marines to establish bases and upgrade as they push forward
- It would also encourage marines to protect their more advanced weapons.
I do not what to see the NS2 try to make itself quicker. I spoke with several NS1 players in a game last night and we agreed that a good NS match should be long. They commented that NS1 gameplay was sacrificed when attempts were made to promote 20min games and they liked the direction that NS2 was taking. I am not sure what they are referring to since I never played NS1. Just relaying the conversation.
Now just removed the tech point all together for marines just leave them in for aliens and we are back to NS1 :D
Maybe rename them to hive points or something and it would be great..
Why not just use the NS1 system where each hive gives you some passive armour/health bonuses and of course each extra hive is an extra location you can telaport to not to mention an easier way to spread infestation and a redundancy incase you loose a hive..
You don't need to change the formula to much NS1 was nearly perfect!
I don't really like this at all. We have tons of maps designed around tech points as a result of a game design around tech points, and now it's gone poof?
Well, that aside, it really bugs me for another reason. The marines being able to do it all from one base is OK. That was normal in NS1 and is technically feasible in nearly any RTS; I don't mind the concept. However, aliens have ALWAYS been about expanding to tech up, and getting rid of that rubs me the wrong way.
I don't like the idea of just "build a whip to unlock lerk" form of unlocking, because it would be crazy easy to unlock everything really fast. Pop a crag, whip, and shift in the back corner of your base and all of a sudden you have fades facerolling the marines early in the game. (or if not fades, lerks gassing MS way too early)
So there needs to be some kind of limit. Is there an order you have to build to get these chambers? Honestly, I don't like that idea. Being able to pick the chamber for the situation is a key key alien playstyle feature. That means we need to come up with some other form of limit.
Sure, the aliens could come back to expansion-based teching, but then we're very close to being NS1 all over again, and then what was the point of changing the game to begin with?
Another option might be based on a percentage of the map covered in linked DI. Don't force the hives to expand, but make them bolster the expansion. Make the players *want* to make hives rather than forcing them to.
If you do this, however, the requirements to put up a new hive have to come way down. Marines will focus on denying alien expansion while they tech up themselves, so aliens need to have that advantage getting out there. It's close to NS1 again in the end, but it changes things a little bit. Gorges will have tons to do, needing to keep everything connected in interesting ways. It would be great to see crags be able to make small sustained patches of DI, to help bolster thin "bridges" of the stuff in vulnerable areas. Don't make them as powerful as a hive, but make them the core of small bases that the aliens have to defend.
edit: I do like the alien lifeforms being tied to structures, but think the fade should stay as a tier 2 tech.
2 macs per cs and 3 drifters per hive? With 1 additional drifter/mac per upgrade.
A relatively cheaper expansion node that can be placed on a tech point if you're not sure that you'll be able to defend it? If you later fortify the room, you can recycle the node and build a full hive/CC on that spot.
I'm thinking something similar to a phase gate for marines, and something similar to a super-powered pustule for aliens.
If you don't want to spend the res just have a phase gate nearby and alert your team whenever the point was taken.
I was trying to think of some way to introduce a more variable risk/reward decision. A new hive/CC is a big risk with a big reward. Allowing the option of a smaller risk and smaller reward might add more depth if done correctly.
However aliens I think should be encouraged to expand, but on the other hand they sort of are encouraged to expand anyway, the infestation mechanic is important and because hives come with built in spawns and health regen, placing one is a good idea anyway. So I think the change is a good one.
With nodes no longer being neccesary for teching, it could be worth looking into other uses for them, as mentioned above you could add in new structures to be placed on nodes. For marines I'm thinking maybe an armed command station? Except it wouldn't be a command station, no chair controls or anything just a tech point lockdown with a turret on it and IP placement nearby, would allow marines to lock down an area a bit better, as they currently have difficulty with it. Or possibly a chair with a built in phase gate, something to help with marine mobility by easing the pressure on them moving around or adding better ways to move around.
I think that's the main issue really, it's hard to defend multiple expansions as marines, it's hard to even defend marine expansion in tram and it's right next door. If you can address that I think it'll be an excellent change.
edit:
I also like this idea:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thinking about requiring certain structures for alien lifeforms
Crag -> Gorge
Whip -> Lerk
Shift -> Fade
Hive Colony -> Onos (currently)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But, wasnt there something called shade?
Crag = Def => Gorge
Whip = Off => Lerk
Shift = Movement => Fade if T2 Hive
Shade = Cloak => Onos if T3 Hive
Now add some pictures or text with the requirements next to the inactive model in the alien evolve menu and it shouldnt be too confusing.
edit: I do like the alien lifeforms being tied to structures, but think the fade should stay as a tier 2 tech.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm on the same front. This won't make the game more intuitive. It is just adding more requirements and particularities to the game. I really think you could remove any researching as it feels redundant to building. To access L2 tech require 2 tech points, l3 with 3 tech points. Lose your second techpoint and lose the acces to l2 and so on.
I know you guys are influenced by starcraft and chess but you are turning away from these.
In chess when you lose a piece it is gone, when you are losing you know there is no back door to keep the game going. What you see is what you get and each action has a purpose and a meaning. Theres no special effects.
It seams to me that you want to turn thing more like starcraft where you are not obliged to hold several bases for tech but for territorial control and resources. In NS2 it is different. This is because you have chosen to have techpoints. Be honest with what these are and make them tech points, points you need to hold to gain access to new tech. In SC building access new units and research upgrades the units and i think this is the way you have to go too.
Thinking back at what I'm typing and what charlie posted im not even sure I understand how you want to change things and even if my points are valid for what you want for NS2. And I have no idea how this will outcome but it seams some things got more complicated and some things disappeared.
Edit: Looked at chris's answer above and agree with that too.
Kind of sad with the current way, it's less magical and dynamic when you're manually placing infestation. Is infestation still going to be able to cover walls and ceilings?
Are you going to make a damage type on the flamethrower that gives it an edge on infestation burning? If low tech marines can take it down wouldn't it make the flamethrower obsolete? Unless gorge webs are reintroduced?
I think the idea is the commander drops these things on the floor, and they grow out onto the walls and ceiling over time. Presumably also hives will infest the ceiling and walls around them so it will also grow out in all directions from them.
EDIT:
I also think aliens need a critical incentive to keep expanding to tech points, since their infestation pretty much suggests that aliens expand outward naturally.
Having a new hive to provide a new "source" of DI, and thus making it far easier to keep a forward offensive base alive, seems pretty critical to me.
Having a fortified healing station right outside marine start would be much harder if you're relying on Gorges alone to keep those Hydras & Crags alive.
I don't see the point of moving away from all those years of game play testing this is the right choice.
If anything it will find the right mark between where you want to take the game and keeping balance with the original.
Attempting to innovate is never a bad thing.
I also like Chris's idea for alternative uses for Tech Points. It could be expanded on to some degree, limiting some Tech structures that you typically only build one of (Observatory, Robotics Factory, Prototype Laboratory assuming it's an isolate structure and not an Armory Module) to being built on a Tech Point, such that at each expansion you would gain access to a new Structure and as a result a new Tech Path. The IP, Armory, Turret, and Power Pack would obviously not be included.
Also, for everyone worrying about the structure requirements to unlock Alien Lifeforms; right now the interface indicates that these structures are still tied to the number of Hives, meaning with 1 Hive you can still only unlock the Gorge (with Crag) and Lerk (with Whip), at 2 Hives (at Tier 2) you can build Shifts (with unlock Fades), and at Hive/Tier 3 Shades. So these disaster scenarios being dreamed up won't exist, unless they've changed more than they claim.
Tech points are effectively a sort of ISO Standard Base Location. Much as in NS1 you would drop a CC/base wherever you want to operate out of or defend, so you can do in NS2. The major difference is that there are specific points for the hub of the base and so bases should be a bit more structured, you have the opportunty to put the node in a well covered part of a room and have the rest be more open, you also have the opportunity to make it quite exposed, essentially you can dictate the strengths and weaknesses of an area by tech point and resource node placement in relation to each other.
For marines I would say this is very similar to NS1, albeit a bit less prone to weird base placement, no more building main base in a tiny broom closet somewhere on the map, which I think is generally a good thing, if you want broom closet bases you can design a nice broom closet and put a tech point in it, but you can also prevent them if you don't want them in the map.
For aliens it's going to be quite different though, originally in NS1 aliens needed hives to unlock lifeforms, then that got dropped and I think hives were mostly to unlock new towers, but in any case aliens were quite hive-limited, and there were only three sites. The game was mostly about locking down hive locations. A good focussing factor but kind of a dull mechanic I find, as it means you fight in the same rooms every time.
With this model, it seems aliens will be more focussed on hives as a vehicle for infestation, which enforces map control, it is a little odd that aliens have the stronger map control option with infestation and destroyed nodes (which hinder marines, while powered nodes don't really do anything to aliens) in addition to being the most mobile team. I think the combination of those two might emphaise the difference between the sides. For marines I would expect the key to victory will become finding the right position to turtle up until they can tech up enough to expand, while aliens will focus on spreading map control and running around killing people.
Thinking about it, I really really think marines need a stronger form of map control. They need to be able to really lock off areas of the map, block infestation growth, alien movement, and defend their structures. They already have a defensive attack capability in the form of the ARC, which allows them to push without actually attacking, just by defending close to the enemy, I think they need more protection on their bases, because currently aliens can attack pretty unopposed unless you just have the one base.
Infestation being destroyable early on is important, as it gives marines reasons to strike out from their base in the early game, but they need other reasons. They need to be able to capture isolated res nodes, establish distant but linked bases (phase gates are going to be important here) and their structures need to be a lot tougher I think, either in terms of being more defensible with sentries, or more health, or having electrified resource towers, something to deal with the inability of marines to police a large area in the early game, and to free them from their bases and encourage striking out early on.
Reduces chance game will end when original CS/Hive is destroyed (NS2 has loss condition when you no longer have one)
Increases amount/location to spawn (IP/eggs)
Multiple commanders
Relocation for marines
Extra CS/Hive abilities (infestation, speed research, etc.)
Forward healing point for aliens
Second “island†for alien infestation<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
None of these are compelling reasons for marines to build tech points except for these possible CS abilities. I hope they're as useful as infestation.
I remember something called "Nano-defense Grid" on the progress list long ago, maybe that's something comparable to infestation (or to eliminate it).